Is this the DREAM final?! | The Breakdown, June 16, 2024

The Breakdown crew react to a crazy weekend of Super Rugby and discuss the implications for the upcoming All Blacks selection.

#superrugbypacific #RugbyHighlights #Highlights #Rugby #RugbyUnion

CREDIT: @skysportnz

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[Music] [Music] two teams arrive at the Garden of Eden tonight knowing a place in super Rugby’s big dance is just one win away nutshell it’s what the have been doing all season with the pass and cl it the blues are into the final welcome to Wellington well for the first time in8 years we’re back in the capital for semifinal ping a it up for [Applause] Jacobs it again you want to talk about a sensational start as go stret get over the top ofage coming wide and the and for the fifth time in their history the Chiefs are going to the Grand Final next [Music] week tour good evening welcome into the breakdown and then there were two the blues and the Chiefs in the Grand Final of Super Rugby but there has been some terrible news on the injury front for the Chiefs and for the All Blacks with samoni Tokyo we’ll talk about that during the program and we’ve got a fantastic interview coming up with the All Blacks assistant coach leam McDonald ahead of their squad announcement in a week’s time but joining us on the panel Justin Marshall and ser John kwin seat uh this week Mills mola and Jeff Wilson where’s JK when you need him just to rub it in a little bit well when I went into the Green Room there was a Blues jersey sitting in my area and and I think he was trying to put me in the seat and put the Blues jersey on but that’s not happening so I’m so relieved he’s not here let’s be honest be painful what about the grins on your faces he smiling who called this final at the start of the Year melsy what’s sorry who called this final at the start of the I can’t remember who called it I can’t remember who called it at the be very beginning of the year that these two teams would make it but I tell you what he’s a pretty smart person isn’t he so you’re obviously talking about yourself oh yeah yeah absolutely take all the credit you’re 100% right 100% right well how good though I mean how good you know there’s no doubting guys that uh you know we have got the two very best teams going into a final it’s going to be massive fans disagree and the Hurricanes themselves top of the table side but ultimately when the biggest test came in front of them they weren’t able to get over it so look I can’t wait for Eden Park um Saturday night uh there should be a big crowd it should be a sellout because we’re talking about a title that I think both of these teams are are desperate to win well uh there was a big crowd in tanaki club rugby over the weekend we talked about some of these all blacks going back to play rug over the last couple of weeks Bowden Barrett played for his beloved Coastal for the first time in 14 years it’s always on the list to come back and play it’s just a matter of when it’s um unique this year come back from Japan there’s a bit of extra time so the last time I played here was in 2010 I was playing for the under 20s against Englewood so uh it’s just what I remember and Englewood again Englewood again yeah playing with a couple of cousins this time so no it’s just it’s good to reconnect with the Grassroots and the coast and I come here come here as often as I can wonderful for Club rugby look at all the k that were surrounding B and Barrett they tried to keep it a secret he wasn’t named on uh the team sheet on Thursday they snuck it in and the whole town hurt and turned up how good is that so good I mean you know given the fact you he’s back he’s early he’s got of committed himself to going back and given everything else that’s G on in terms of the administrational side of things wonderful story wonderful to see him back it’s healthy as well like as as a player being in that professional environment to actually go back to what the game’s all about you know hit the club rooms afterwards see the man of the match have to get up and you know take his punishment for being man of the match it’s like so bizarre but you know having the crowd right there and yeah it’s it’s really refreshing I think he’ll be much better for it good on him for going back and and playing for his Club side well it wasn’t a full house at Eden Park over the weekend but it should be a full house this weekend if you want to secure your tickets you are going to have to get in quick tickets go on sale for the final Tuesday 9:00 a.m. so set your alarms you can also register ahead of time on the this website here blues. flick it.co NZ that will give you a bit of a head start and all the very best it will be the hottest ticket in town in the next week if you’re joining us on Skys sport uh we’ll be there at the ground with the cast of thousands that includes the former Chiefs captain and All Blacks Captain Sam Kane will be alongside us as well which will be a wonderful addition to the team Jeff looking forward to what he’s got to say I’m pretty sure it’ll be one-sided let’s be honest he wants one team to win let’s be fair yeah but he’s got JK on the other side I mean if you think about what Sam went through with his Chiefs team last year because they came so very very close within one I think one play of managing to win this title a title that they cherish so dearly well think about the last two seasons both of these two teams have slipped out to the Crusaders and the two finals 2022 and 2023 yeah both of them oh absolutely and and that gives you massive motivation but it equally it it creates resolve but both seem teams are mentally the same head space so be really interesting to hear what Sam Kane has to say because he’ll have a little bit of in inside knowledge about the Chiefs and their preparation and what they what they’ve been up to for the week can I ask you a question about them both of you the fact is that why these two teams have made it this far the fact of what they’ve been through what it takes you mentioned about you know needing to Lose to Win one yeah um the Crusaders never learned that lesson because they never lost but if you think about this and for these two sides and on the weekend in particular when two teams came back at them you know made a run at them late in the game you know after halftime the brumes did actually test the blues for a good 10 to 15 minutes Mills Justin is this is this what we’ve got where we’ve got right now is the two teams who have the depth and of experience in playoff games to now know what it’s going to take to win one well I think yes um I equally think that they they learned in terms of what happened to them in a final and and executed game plans in the semi-final that has got them to the big dance again like you learn about opportunities not taken about going into the game not starting well the Hurricanes didn’t start well for two weeks on the bounce and it hurt them big time the Chiefs you know when when they played the Crusaders didn’t start well in their game neither did the Blues when they played the Crusaders so those teams that’s those are the major things you learn about like a you’re off slightly off then all of a sudden you can lose a final so yeah mentally I think they’ve both learned from it now they got to apply it to final whoever does that the best because they hard to separate Mills very tough It’s hard to pick but it is and I think but also then that is effective but also two contrasting sort of stars in terms of the way they’ve come about this season you the blues very much a totally different game plan um compared to what the the Chiefs have I think you know analyzing you know the Chiefs would have really um they done a really good job on saying well like you said let’s go and start really fast you know try and get on top of the of the Hurricanes how are they sort of managed their scrum because they set piece you know um the Hurricanes dominated them last time they played down at the caon um and so when you go into this there’s a lot in it and I think that pressure side of it will definitely help given the the they both experienced it but this is a massive week because all that’s going to be talked about are they’re going to be these two teams have the chiefs played their final they are battered and bruised can they go out and do what they did in Wellington and get up to that level and Beyond with some of these players missing potentially Jeff so but was it a cakewalk at Eden Park for the blues if you think about what the B brumes threw at them and they have to play a certain way the blues at the moment that’s their game plan is direct through the middle and they themselves were beaten up at the end of it short turnaround they only had a six day turnaround between games and the nature of the way that they do play they were better than bruisers themselves so I’m not I’m not buying too much into this yes there’s a couple of significant injuries that the Chiefs are going to have to deal with and whether or not a Sean Stevenson can recover in time with his hamstring losing samoni Tokyo huge for them but ultimately I I think both teams at this time of the year are a bit banged up the way the Blues play certainly means that it takes a bit of time to recover and the brumbies weren’t soft when it came to that they actually rolled up their sleeves and forced they made more tackles in that game than the brumbies did there was about 30 I think 30 more tackles in that game so they had to go to work so I don’t read too much into that I think what Mar’s talking about up here mentally and starting well is going to be critical and what I want to add to that is having spent a couple of days around the chief so they arrived on Friday with their supporters into the hotel that we were staying at and the messaging after the game and the interviews that we did with them including Clayton McMillan and even the younger players like Wallace Sati love the way that he said yeah I had a good game thank you very much it’s very kind of you but we’ve still got one more the job’s not done yet every single player reinforced that message saw them in the the C Lounge this morning on their way back to Oakland really really well focused they like they are in a good head space battered and bruised I don’t think comes into it they are mentally in a really good place to approach this final with everything they’ve got can we talk about Wallace T because he’s the name on everyone’s lips after the weekend isn’t he there were countless All Blacks on the field I don’t know how many maybe 15 or 20 All Blacks across two teams and the 21-year-old non-all black stood out you played with his father Mills did you see this coming from this kid who was on debuted a couple of months ago I didn’t see a performance like this coming you know you always sort of knew Clayton McMillan and that they’ve always said they’ve seen a lot in this guy the obviously Liam mum’s got along alongside him to really sort of mentor him through this even picking him to start you know in these finals football I mean that’s that’s message but this is the potential they seen and when you got guys like Fel you know and also Jac from the other side and you leave a guy like this sort of open I mean how how ballsy is that from someone so skillful to be able to go hey yeah you know what I I will I will take the um you know the ball by the Scruff of the horns and just really go for it and that’s where he was his dad had similarities really fast as well played six s played you know for the Hurricanes as well as old team um and played sevens um so there is a bit of speed there as well but certainly um Wallace a lot a lot bigger in size and it’s obviously because the game um you know progressed in the way that it has professionally what I loved as well was the unity that they had as as a back row you know those those clips here that we were showing and three or four of them right on his hit was Jacobson yeah for one for the pass back inside theat went Sati Jacobson boom offload tat try two of The cleanouts Jacobson was right there so he’s complimenting what his number eight is doing and that’s what the balance of a back row is all about everybody working together in Synergy and if I look at Sati and and I look at the the single things that he has to do as a number eight his core role Jacobson then goes out the guy who can play six seven or eight and he adapts his game to the role he needs to play and he’s done that for the Chiefs for years a lot of the time for the All Blacks it’s Off the Bench whereas what do you need me to do I think the leadership from Jacobson and he was bitly disappointed to get a yellow card in this game he failed as though it hurt his team but he has been a leader he’s been a real leader and they needed that Sam Kane leaves they lose Brad whipper they needed someone to yeah retalic leaves and this is the man for me who LED this group and I think Wallace Sati has built off that combination those guys around them and obviously it helps when you’ve got someone at sick like six 7 pen F now who’s scaring everybody because he’s he’s impacting the game so to me he was able to focus on his core role his athleticism comes to the four and now he gets to go up against the guy who wants the number eight Jersey we know ADI sa is in that conversation we know how great he is World player of the year but Hoskin satu is now standing in his way for and he gets a chance at Eden Park to go you know what guess what I should be in the same conversation you’re in right now yeah and like he is he’s very levelheaded you know the way he sort of speaks after the game that was a huge game for a 21y old but I know I go back to your point M I totally agree and I think that the Chiefs have had a really good run in terms of that mix sort of three back rows if if you look at the sort of the Hurricanes those guys we’ve been talking about them all year all year same with the blues whereas the mix in terms of the what the the Chiefs would be able to do they’ve had Simon Parker in there they’ve also had um uh you know a bit of changing around being able to rest sort of Jacobson at the same time now that back three who are so crucial to their sort of setup and now starting to lift and sort of go to another level you mentioned the yellow card to Luke Jacobson um you never want to be the story as the referee do you and it sort of has been talked about a lot in the last 24 hours since that game how do you make sure that’s not the case in a final that we’re not talking about the referee and the TMI well that’s not up to us that’s up to the TMO and the referees to get it right next weekend look I I think the Chiefs feel really grieved there was a few decisions that went against them they’ve come out on the other side of it Mar Mills where they’ve won and here’s one here was a little bit unfortunate but it’s a head-to-head contact but ultimately if you look at another contact in the game when TJ Panara makes a tackle on Wallace Sati there’s a head contact there so all you’re asking for is consistency I think the great thing for this group is it didn’t hurt the outcome of this game um and that’s where they’re fortunate but they now let’s just pray I’ll give them the benefit of the doubt that hope hope F and next Sunday we’re not talking about a significant moment in a game yeah and and and consistency is what you’re what you’re after look there’s no doubt about the fact that if if they’re going to say head contact then across the board to the letter of law if it’s head contact then you’re going to have to penalize everyone in the same regard that’s all we’re after if they do that whether we agree with it or not they’re consistent everybody will be happy but end of the day like Jacobson that late that late shot it’s a penalty but when you look at the context of the game like McKenzie got belted a couple of times just after he’ kicked the ball I think one that b and suum absolutely hammered him um and nothing was said about it and to a degree that’s late because he’s already kicked the ball it’s gone off his foot young Jacobs was committed to that tackle too so yes if they get the consistencies right we’ll all be happy but if they don’t then there’ll be plenty to complain about I said this a couple of weeks ago I’m I hope it does not come down to a refereeing decision and last last night it almost did it was there was potential decision well exactly but they’ve got to get it right you know I mean we don’t want to be coming back coming back you know following wind while that was lost on that on that decision um and so they’ve got to be on the same page and that’s what fears me I’m worried might that might happen so hopefully can I follow up on that they’ve been really good this year we haven’t they’ve been fantastic we talked so it’s the fact I’m I’m I don’t want to be critical because it didn’t it didn’t affect the outcome of this game or the right team didn’t win they won they didn’t suffer the chiefs were the best team on the night but what we’re saying is let’s let’s just hope that we don’t have any controversy of the fact because remember last year you know Sam Kane um he gets the yellow card at the end of the game and and it was like was it wasn’t it let’s see hope we hopefully we see 15 on 15 for as much of the game that we possibly can yeah and I I don’t want to see the chief’s Attitude Change no like the physicality and attitude they brought to that contest defensively aggressively they they don’t want to be worried about a or atmo who gets assigned the game because it changes their mental approach they got to go out there that with that same mindset and attitude so hopefully we we just get consistency do you think that does affect someone like Luke Jacobson who’s been carded and penalized in two massive games doesn’t it doesn’t have an impact he just plays that way and so Luke wherever you are out there mate don’t change none of you none of you you’re awesome well I tell you what the chase have got bigger issues um than the referees coming into the game because they’ve got serious uh problem s at Hooker right now samoni Tokyo will not play in this game he is in a moon boot he’s getting further scans but it is an Archilles injury and Clayton McMillan believes it won’t just impact the Chiefs but it’ll have an impact on the All Blacks as well we also saw Bradley Slater uh come off with an hi um we believed that he actually damaged his MCL in his knee so unsure whether or not Bradley Slater will play he’s got a question mark over him what do you do if you’re the Chiefs and what do you do for the All Blacks if seon isn’t available either I it’s tough isn’t it is a final coming up first such a yeah yeah I mean obviously Tompson you know fits that role but they’ve obviously got to find another uh a backup that goes on the bench but also probably possibly a third one as well that helps them sort of warm up um where do they go I mean Club break the biggest game of the year yeah that’s a big headache it’s a big headache yeah yeah it is and obviously they they would have already been thinking about that postgame and doing their due diligence on how they fill that void and fill it in a manner that it doesn’t cost them a final so knowing that coaching group and knowing what they’re about look we’ve speculated names haven’t we and and we haven’t come up with a great deal of answers but what they are very good at is finding those names and finding those answers puts massive pressure on Thompson for sure but he’s a good player he’s he’s been around Super Rugby for long enough and if they need to you know it’s always a good story isn’t it like they’ll probably make a movie out of they may went out of beaver yeah even though he EST Ruger he came out of where was he white baiting or a fifth choice you know so it’s not often there isn’t one of the props who hasn’t played hooker you know generally one of the props has had a chance so maybe they’re in the car parkow the car park in the next morning they rounded every right up boys here we go shot a few targets see what we can do we joke but you mentioned we’ve been throwing around names who’s that third choice for the All Blacks now that name well well players that kind of would have been in the conversations but that if we suffer an injury you know who’s that fourth choice hooker because you take three hookers you take three halfbacks that’s a given so you know you’ve got to speculate who’s been ined and who’s been playing well and and you know there are some more established players out there like the likes of Ricky W tell who’s had a great season Kirkland’s been around that environment before or do you then take a leap of faith and go well this is telling us we probably don’t have the depth we thought we had do we need to bring through some of the under 20s players like George Bal who have been in the system before and and catapult them because we know in the future they’re going to be good it just has to happen quicker I don’t know George Bell um is he is he in the conversation has he done enough I like when you’re talking about Ricky relli do you do an SOS to someone like Dane Kohl’s do is that why you were smoking I’m just I’m laughing about I don’t know anything what I’m saying to you though he was playing in Japan he chose to continue to keep playing at the end of the the last World Cup he was still a really effective good International hooker you said yourself I want to have someone you know who could come in and be that backup you’ve got how many test matches do he play going you know what I know it’s not ideal and you should love to BL blood a young guy I know that would be hard on a rookie Rickie Telly but I that’s thinking outside of the box I don’t think that I’m not but I’m just saying is that is that a possibility we start going wow you know we still want to win test matches we still want to be successful I’m just throwing it out there you know okay posy would say yes would he oh he’s probably already on the plane he would say yes don’t worry about that well this whole conversation’s come up because of the injuries at Hooker for the chief Bradley Slater dragged his knee around the park for uh the good part of 60 minutes he was on basically one leg Mills and if it is an MCL that is tough I was absolutely amazed at the way that sort of he carried on sort of um on the game MCL then ended up having a head knock so that sort of forced me to together M’s M moments as well but this is the stuff I was talking about I mean he’s out there he’s absolutely on one knee he’s hobbling around U trying to give himself you know back up look at him there get back into the D on oh there was one occasion where he was the only Chaser and he was scream and then thank thank goodness he wasn’t any scrums cuz he wouldn’t be able to push so on the back end of that I thought from my ms’s moments this week that would s focus on people that guys that have played on through injuries and the first one really doesn’t really need any introduction and it’s uh Wayne Buck shafford we haven’t got sort of footage of sort of what Wayne he got knocked out in this game so as checking him in his in his game after he got checked obviously from concussion he went and had a shower and uh he noticed that his scrutin had uh had been torn apart obviously from the The Ruck so that’s tough that is tough you imagine that a back would have been like off straight away like get me out of here I’m done yeah I mean J I mean J JK spoken about it and he said um you know he would have fainted as a the next guy is Norm hu now he played in the 2000 NPC final down in stretch against canbury look at his arm there it’s in a cast because he broke with it he played with it broken and Wellington went on to win this Final in 2000 so big Norm hu he deserves the place today and that he was he was a tough buger too wouldn’t he yeah yeah tough yep and of course Richie MC now this is I was talked about after this uh after the final after the the 2011 Rugby World Cup the good thing about this is not even the players knew that he had a broken foot um we just thought that they were just resting Richie on the sidelines during trainings because he was uh he was the master you thought they were giving a breather give him the Breather man you just you just play on the weekends they wor about training but he had he played on with a broken foot and obviously went on to to win the Rugby World Cup in 2011 Kieran Reed another one uh 2015 and you watch him come down here there heavily on his right foot apparently he he broke something he broke a bone in his in his ankle there they strapped him up and the very next time he touched the ball he decided you know what well I’m just going to kick with my broken foot wasn’t the best kick in the world but the part that he done here was a lot better that’s the first time I’ve ever seen that rat ran the ankle work yeah you know how they do it all the time guys like 2 minutes later I’m I’m no good technically it probably didn’t work he was just tough yeah it was just tough it was like 10 bucks withth a tape just like that oh yeah and speaking of tough well we we thought you had my got our mate over here Justin Marshall look at that good stuff mate Five Points go a WR wait you could have got another the bar you you could kick B easier yes that’s bit unidy isn’t it I I don’t think I should be walking in the footsteps of uh those people cuz I didn’t I didn’t I didn’t play on so doesn’t really count does it it counts countsy scored the try Mary um but on that what was your recovery like for your Achilles because samon is potentially going to go through the same thing isn’t he yeah and and TJ panar has just been through it as well and and achilles can be really Troublesome for front rowers um in particular because of that that force and pressure they’re putting through it um it’s not an easy recovery I I had operation um I was really fortunate I pushed it hard um and got back in three and a half months but it tends to be a 6 to n month injury so yeah it’s never easy it’s it’s a hard one you you have obviously no weight Bearer for quite a long time and you’re in a moon boot too so uh really really sad for samoni if that’s what it is a full rupture will require sergy and reattachment but hopefully it’s not that and it’s just a tear your one hasn’t slowed you down on the squash court or the golf Absol not let know no so there’s a person that’ll know about that later in the show well we’ve got him coming up next All Blacks assistant coach Leon McDonald is just around the corner a week out from them naming their 32 man squad no my hookie my welcome back into the breakdown well we are just 7 days away from the first all black Squad of 2024 uh where we will have it live here on the breakdown the breakdown special next Monday and joining us to talk about it is the All Blacks assistant coach Leon McDonald Leon thank you so much for your time on a Sunday we do hope um the roast has been good and that we didn’t interrupt dinner uh us we saw a fantastic semi-final in Wellington last night did any names get added to that 32-man list after the game good evening guys yeah it was a fantastic game wasn’t it it was awesome rugby um to be honest no no new names I think what we saw is the guys that we’ve been tracking um you know played some fantastic rugby on the big stage you know that’s what you want to see um you know the guys putting the hand up and Performing and it was a brutal game it was physical fast a lot of ball movement so I think all the the selectors were pretty excited around what we saw last night Leon great to have you on the show great to see you mate I got a question around these responsibilities as selectors because all of a sudden we’ve seen that there’s wider a wider group normally there’s three guys that have that responsibility now you’ve all got areas and yours is the outside backs but the first part of it is I heard you had to put your first team down and then all of a sudden the robust debate how did you enjoy that process given the fact that all of a sudden there’s a lot more voices as you get closer to this first Squad yeah it’s it’s been a it’s been an interesting process a little bit of a different setup than I’ve used in the past but I felt it’s working really well um it’s meant that we’ve been able to really dig deep into our positions and and um even present back cases I suppose to the group and and had that debate that you mentioned before so been a really good process um you know then the responsibility lies in your court to make sure you’re getting it right so um yeah yeah so I’ve been doing outside backs tracked every outside back in the country really and and been F really closely and obviously we getting down to that point the end of the season and um you know and the ability to have conversations right across the board because we we were watching a lot of rugby so it’s nice for us to get other opinions as well which has been awesome Leon I want to sort of talk about their selectors because obviously you guys are selecting the team but there’s some other important selectors in us uh so I kind of want to ask have you settled on that number is that number 32 and it’s what does a split look like in in terms of a team are you bringing in sort of guys to sort of cover injuries maybe too yeah 3 to2 sort of the the number there will be some injuries you know we’ve seen injuries in the week uh weekend um that’s going to happen over last previous weeks there’s been some guys that have that have had some reasonably decent injuries so that’s going to change but um probably a uh yeah is it 18 14 split hopefully my mess works out well there um yeah and hopefully I think you know for me watching the final it’s more about watching who walks off at the end more than the result you know it’s just I’m just glad the two best teams I think um through the playoffs that deserve to make this final and and we’re just looking forward to to hopefully getting through Andrew fre Leon it’s your old Nemesis here he used to take a lot of money off you on the squash court and the golf course um I hope you’ve recovered from that what I wanted to ask you about was technical like not in terms of selection but it would influence selection at what point do you guys start looking at game plan and the way you want to play there’s been no uh disguising the fact the All Blacks have struggled against outside in defense particularly from the Northern Hemisphere teams and try to find a way to beat that do you look at players that are conducive to doing that are they part of the mix 100% Masa yeah you’re right and no you haven’t won a lot of money off me but uh definitely the sty of game is probably the first thing that we we we said probably pre Christmas is around the way we wanted to play so that was our pre-Christmas um projects I suppose is what what’s what’s the game that we want to play what sort of identity and um do we want to show on the field and then from there when we’re really clear around the way we wanted to play it’s now let’s get the right players that are going to allow us to play the game we want to play so um and that’s where the debate comes in you know strong set peace versus Mobility versus you know whatever so we’re just making sure that um at a lines up right back to the start in the way that we want to play the game both on attack and defense Leon because a number of the challenges this year uh when you talk South Africa once again you talk about England you talk about France you know Ireland once again there are specific test tests and challenges like Mar has talked about can I just quiz you a little bit on the outside backs then of of course we’re sitting here and judging players at Super Rugby are there a few skill sets in particular that are non-negotiable for the outside backs when it comes to playing at the next level compared to when you are playing at Super Rugby yeah definitely you know the the the big counter attacking spaces you’re not going to see that when you’re when we playing England we’re going to see a lot of high balls a lot of contestes um you have to be strong in the air you have to be strong in the contact area because they’re going to try and counter rck um so you know that space that you you know we we’ve enjoyed watching some of their outside backs running back a lot of space they not going to have that luxury I don’t think against South Africa and England in particular um it’s more of a it’s more of a grinding sort of mentality can you can you nail every high ball ball on the ground um making sure there’s no kick space where you know positional plays really important we don’t want to give give them easy kicks into the corners so the little things like that the positional plays becomes really important the the um the Unseen stuff that people people might not be able to see on the TV screens because the views w’t allow them to see that so um yeah you know in terms of fullbacks and wings positional plays really important the ability to score tries um out of nothing you know like that little 5 met to go with two Defenders can we get home and get that that little moment and win that score that try that we need to win the game so yeah it becomes becomes um very technical in what we’re looking at in terms of of that next level is a little bit different than what we’re seeing in Super Rugby leam we’ve had robust discussions on the show this year about fullbacks how many fullbacks will you actually take considering you have players that can go back there but play in other positions as well um you you need to give yourself cover you know two two in the position at least you know um so you could be injured throughout the weekend um or later in the week and you need somebody ready to go so you know would definitely want at least two in every position to give us that cover yeah I know you’ve just realized um you’ve added to your sort of coaching staff as well with fny coming in also uh David Hill great to see those guys how how will you divide that up are those guys in terms of time on the field and coach or are they merely there sort of to support you guys yeah they won’t be in with us fulltime they they’re parttime uh coaches sort of resource coaches will come in Specialists um they’ll come in you know most weeks I think they’ll they’ll spend a little bit of time whether it’s one day or two days it will depend on on the schedule and and and what we need but um you know Dave Hill’s been with the old blacks in that kicking capacity for quite a few years obviously coaching with the the Chiefs has already got a strong relation reltionship with guys like Damen McKenzie and and through um through his previous experience with the old blacks with guys like you know bow and Barrett Etc so he’s you know that continuity is really good for those guys cuz you know obviously they kick him well and and Cory Flynn’s pretty new to the throwing role but you know he’s already touched Bas he spent a lot of time in all the clubs working with these guys already so he’s already underway and um he’ll be in there obviously it’s an important part of of the game is getting that line out throwing right so great to have him on board as well mate we’ve asked some reasonably serious questions but I guess another side of it is it’s exciting you’re a new coaching group you’ve got a new side to work with and one of raz’s strengths obviously is is the culture that that he creates it’s a hell of a challenging season man like 15 test matches you know playing top five teams six teams in the world but you guys must be looking forward to it and looking forward to getting your team together and getting started yeah we’ve been waiting for ages Mary you know like a lot of us last time I coached was New Zealand 15 after last year’s Super season so it’s a long time ago and we’ve watched so much rugby you know we’ve traveled around we’ had so many Zoom meetings and face to face meetings around how we want to play the game and uh we’re spoken about players at length and now the the the time’s arriving you know we’re assembling this week with the nonf finalists or a group of non-f finalists before we name our Squad to get underway um so it’s really exciting you know and um what Raz has got in store with for the team’s really exciting we’re really motivated about about that and you know I suppose it’s a little bit like the first day in any job you know I think there’s a little bit of nerves and and that’s exciting as well we’re going to be um it’s going to keep us on our toes and and England first up nine days from when we assembl till we play England and England are coming over here with um you know high expectations and a lot of confidence so um you know we’ve got to make sure we get that first nine days absolutely right so yeah it’s really exciting Mara you’re dead on did right just before we let you go lay on blows or chiefs I think uh I think it’s going to be a hell of a game two really contrasting Styles I just think Home Advantage um potentially is going to just swing the the favor for me to the blues but I you know I wouldn’t write the Chiefs off the Chiefs have been ritten off a fair bit already this year and they proven that they’re you know they’re capable so it’s going to be a hell of a game I think that’s he sounds like sounds exactly like Mills for the whole season good good answer mate good answer thank you so much Leon we really appreciate your time and we cannot wait for that first Squad next week oh awesome guys cheers for having me oh just brilliant leam McDonald nailed his first all black assistant interview on the breakdown uh very honest uh very open and I feel like you learn a lot about that interview no new names were written down on the sheet after the uh semi-final yesterday they already have the players that they looking at uh 32 players 18 14 split big question what kind of style did they decide when they came together last year in November what kind of style did they decide they want to play as an all blacks Group Well I think a game really suited to our skill set and an evolution of a game plan that’s going to suit the players that are going to be all blacks in the next half a dozen years and and that’s all revolved around my mindset is against the struggles we’ve had and I know I keep banging the but it’s a drum that needs to be banged because it hurts us and it’s been losing us test matches as teams that suffocate us and they they narrow the field and there’s space for us where we usually have space with our incredibly outside exciting outside backs when these guys played who we could get the ball to and they would cut teams open now teams have recognized that the All Blacks threats from Center out or even the wings and outsides we can’t allow them to get the ball out there cuz they’ll hurt us they got devastating Wingers fullbacks so they narrow the field and we haven’t been up to adapt we’ve tried cross kicks we’ve tried so that’s what they would have sat down at and said right we need the players that we know that can go through that and then eventually go around it and get those guys the ball more often and and then we’ll hurt those teams who are the players then that take these boxers because you asked what they’re looking for in the outside backs someone that can score five meters out uh good in contact good in the air who tis these boxers we’ve got a lot of players that took a lot of boxes and that’s the challenge well that’s the thing and and one of the best at the moment it’s not available in will Jordan so all of a sudden and he’s got versatility um I think in the outside backs I mean Amon Anda was outstanding on the weekend got a a taste of all black rugby then unfortunately got rolled out of the Rugby World Cup we know what Mark tiia has shown at the international level but once again it’s it’s you look at some of these skill sets and you’re going are they good enough at those fundamentals to give this coaching team the confidence if you think about some of the players they’ve had in the past have done a really good job for them in their environment even guys like a George Bridge you you think about the fundamentals that they’ve done really well conditioned really well good on the high ball you know their work rate’s really high when they get space so I think it’s a matter of to what Justin’s talking about is how you going to use them and I I I find it really difficult Caleb Clark’s shown some really positive signs Civ Reese has been really really good and then you got to work out well who’s actually playing fullback is it Bowden Barrett is he the the the starting fullback is it um is it love is it Ruben love I think the conversations are really hard and I don’t know how Scott Robertson’s going to play at the international level because what he had in terms of formula available to him he had a a a team in Squad Mills that he had that could play Super Rugby right now he’s got all of these teams to select from all of these players not just guys he could contract he can pick anyone he wants Mills I mean and so now it’s like to your point as he going am I adjusting given the way Damen McKenzie plays or am I asking him to play a certain role in a certain team I’m fascinated by it all like I I really I can’t settle on my team because I’m not sure how he’s going to play if I thought about it so and and it’s very obvious it’s players that are prepared when they see that situation developing in front of them as attackers and the defense are doing what they doing they’ve got the courage to pull the trigger play without fear that’s a that’s a big thing that Scott Robertson has uh in his culture and I’m sure that that’s a part of the equation to play without fear not to be Reckless there’s a difference but to play without fear have the courage for what you see to trust your instincts and pull the trigger the last thing you can do is hesitate and I think he’ll pick players that all have the ability to play with that confidence and and and uh Fearless I want to ask you about the fullbacks are they going to pick someone that has been there and done this before or they pick someone new or is it just a placeholder until W Jordan gets back so Bal and Barrett slips back there or Damen McKenzie well this is the interesting part like what you mentioned Goldie the fact that you know it’s going to be the person that suits the style of football that they going to actually play the great thing about it about these the the what we’ve got and the exciting part is we have got the skill set right now all our our backs have got the skill set it’s who so so it might not necessarily be the guy that’s in good form but who’s going to TI all those boxes can they catch um the high ball getting know under pressure when the other teams are can they finish from five me out can they adapt masing I think that’s the biggest thing and that’s the things that they’ll be looking at um to try so to answer your question none of you have picked who these players actually are you’re talking about the same thing none of you have mentioned who they are I don’t actually know I I there’s so many in the conversation right now yeah yeah y there are there are there is enough there that we we could probably name two to three in each position that would fulfill that requirement at the moment but what they’ve got to look at is the the the ability to take that fear that confidence to to all black level and they’ll know who those players are and and and I believe that they will not worry about a lack of experience and a lack of test matches why they’ve got the Clean Slate now it’s time for them to start and put their Stak in the ground and they won’t be going oh well we can’t take him because he’s only played one test yeah I will say this just my last comment is the fact the the thing that I I’m grappling with in my head is they’ve just got an all black team they’re taking over an all black team and a lot of these guys would have played last year who got within one play they had a kick it goal to win a ruggy World Cup who would have seen the way and felt the way that they were playing and they had some outstanding performances against Ireland they had an outstanding performance you know in the semi-final against Argentina you start going but how far away were we really from being the best team in the world being good enough to win a rugy World Cup and that’s that to me is I’m fascinated by all of that the leadership who’s going to step up who’s the combination how different is it they’re going to play this is why it’s exciting this year just quickly one final question do you find it interesting that the squad has already been picked the finals don’t matter he said that they’re coming into Camp the players that have already uh been knocked out rugby are in Camp this week they’ve picked their squad it’s just whether or not there’s players that get injured in the final those are the ones that will be replaced it’s no surprise to me it’s not a surprise they’re always around and over the 90% Mark by this stage of the season if they’re not they’ve not g done their homework and they’ve based those selections on the players they know can fit their game plan not what they’re playing within their own franchise and the good thing about it is they’re telling us that now rather saying they and it’s great they absolutely look at how much we’ve got to talk about after that interview usually we just move on and we don’t react at all but there was so much in that interview that we could literally keep talking for the next 10 minutes but we can’t because we’ve got more to talk about we’re going to talk about who the halfbacks are for the All Blacks after the break with Mary’s expertise that’s a massive part of you as a coach isn’t it that connection with the players that interaction with with not just the players but their families you know that was what made the Crusaders tick wasn’t it yeah the the ability to bring everyone you spend more time away from the field than you do at the field or training so you know you you have to have to win off as well and if you’re going to win off you have to bring people with you and I mean one’s a term to say connect you have to connect with them they feel a part of it when things get tough in the middle of the Season someone’s had an injury they’re out of form or they’re not being picked that partner that family that Mom and Dad who’d been with you at the start of the year and you’ve given them the vision for the group that they’re they’re a part of it just as much that’s the connection piece so when it’s going good it’s great but when it’s not and you’re connected and you feel a part of it and you’ve got your own wi group they you startone off the field because they know what’s required they know what the weight looks like we know what we need from their husband their partner the um the son how important is it for Success connection all that all of what you’re talking about that off the field stuff how how valuable is that can you quantify how how much is that contributing to to the actual winning on the field uh connections piece is just a really c um and C is but to show that I’ve got time for you and and bring people with you uh make them feel they belong to something and uh and they’ll give more yeah fantastic that three-part series coming up into the wonderful world of our new All Blacks coach Scott Robinson that is right after the breakdown so you’ll be able to watch it uh as soon as we finish here today make sure you do time now to talk all black halfbacks who is going to be in his mix we’ve got Justin Marshall here so why not talk about it a two out of the three halfbacks obvious if we take a look at the list of potential candidates and as Cortez arima now is he a must in this team well I I think he’s only reinforcing his credentials and I’m like you to be perfectly honest I have five or six players in the mix you know like two of them I’m probably not so convinced on which which you have FAL fuava I think he needs more time another season game managing this is his first year uh that he’s been outside of Aaron Smith but equally you know tofa faki for example come on Leaps and Bounds but just needs more time in the shirt so when you talk about Cortez ratama he’s definitely got time under his belt in terms of he’s been in the system for you know 3 years he’s been learning under Brad Weber and this is his game yesterday and in a big game when he was up against TJ pada who’s been in great great form and is an ultra competitor so he’s going to niggle him around the rcks he’s going to put him under pressure his core role was really really good his kicking game was strong his passing game was great he’s probably arguably the best supportive nine in the country he is in the right place at the right time so many times he’s Ultra fit he’s got the confidence to be able to uh implement the game plan that that the Chiefs want to play and I don’t think there’s um you know any debate that they are functioning well because of the way he plays now what what I really like it’s easy to look at the pass the kick yeah and the the the the inside Runner and the line brakes and everything else but this is what I’ve kind of got in my mind is what makes a really good nine is the work rate check this out so this is artima off the C inset now we’ve got him haloed now it looks like Sati is going to score rater like other player rat is not giving up now what a core role for a SC is to get there as quickly as you can there clean as ear he makes sure he secures the ball Under Pressure offload it two passes later there’s a try now that may look like nothing to anybody else to me but that is effort and that’s what you need from your nine not giving up there’s nobody else that’s going to go there those Fords are all going to clean that rack that’s their role his role is to not give up get there make sure that under pressure and duress you clear that ball and turn a line break like that into a try that’s growth for me massive growth obviously the other two Finley Christie TJ Panera in the mix and Noah hoam again it’s probably one of those massive potential probably needed to be starting earlier in the Crusaders end of the season was great but maybe just needs another year of full game full year full season starts there you go this me done that was great analysis Mar I don’t think question way question I don’t want to answer them it would have been easy for him as well a young green sort of half pack off the back end of sort of uh Brad Weber last year to gravitate to that rock and pick and go yes because there’s an opportunity there and that’s I I agree with that that’s that’s where he’s he’s he’s he specializes he understands the situation knows his a voice out there but doesn’t sort of go hey I’m going to take the Limelight and he gives the ball that’s an excellent decision I think we’re in a fortunate position given the fact we we lose cam royard which was really impactful straight away as soon as he went down I think everyone went oh no and then the fact that TJ ponata came back into the fold and showed and did all the good things we know he can do but he showed he’s healthy and the fact his 10K runs on a Sunday and his 3K runs the morning of the game and all the things that show you he’s in a great head space his health is good he actually looks I think a little bit better than he did before the injury like all of a sudden he schs got a spark about his game but it’s also nice in the last three weeks to have seen Finn Lake christe get back out there and improve every week got better every week he looked a little bit Rusty you know so I look at all of a sudden we’ve been fortunate after a significant injury Mills Justin that we’ve had two guys that we go you know what we spent a lot of time investing in finlake Christie we’ve had someone come back from injury and look really really good that we can trust and now we’ve got a young guy like ctis ratma who actually probably he would have been battling for that third spot who’s now going to get exposed reasonably quickly so I’m really comfortable um I still I I still think when I look at what we’ve lost in Aaron Smith you can’t replace that really difficult um it’s now for someone else to step up and show real um solidity and trust and and for me at the moment it’s Finlay Christie is the guy I I really like what I’ve seen as your starter as as my starter I I just think he’s got to that point I don’t know about you guys Justin I mean where do you see his game to be an all black starter not just the guys come off the beach yeah well obviously you have to have that balance and and I think the the way that he plays he’s he’s niggly he’s disruptive he’s energetic um he looks for opportunities great distributor really tough on defense is kicking gamees good so he he’s really well balanced he’s been in the environment before he’s been in the mix had unfortunately had injuries I certainly feel now that I’ve seen him come back that I’ve kind of changed my mindset I think we need him there a little bit of that is what I saw last night from TJ now TJ won’t mind me saying this because he’ll probably know it himself I just saw him get a little rattled and frustrated like he can get and the referee was on his case and he felt there’s some indiscretions at the breakdown and he he you could see him not concentrating on the game and concentrating on other things around him including the ref and if that happens and to him in a game and somebody gets under his skin or he has a bit of one of those days where things are are difficult for him it can happen to happen to me the guy that comes off the bench probably doesn’t need to be as green as someone like cortz L it needs to be a finle Christie so I think that balance okay Panara Christie and then corz rat who deserves an opportunity and the other three honestly we are pretty blessed we’re lucky we are the future is really bright Jers and I with greatest respect I I I throw those three names out there cuz any one of those guys deserve the opportunity they played very very well and it’s hard for me to try and say what they will pick um but I just try to do it based on background and experience and obviously yeah where we’re at in that position we’re very very lucky considering we’ve lost cam royard we’ve lost Aaron Smith when you look at um we don’t have the same um depth at lock do we so very lucky at halfback let’s turn our attention back to the Grand Final this weekend what are you most looking forward to is it the Sati satu matchup um what is it is it the ra M Christie I mean there’s so much to look forward to about this one isn’t there I’m just looking forward to the the ban through the week we don’t even know who you’re supporting it Ms you’ve got to get off the field he’s in the banter because he knows he can’t lose true you know you can’t lose between both both regions all I know is that you’ll head to the winning changing room hey that’s what he’s going to do I guarantee you afterwards you should be able to get in for an interview who you picking masy I’m I’m going to say just too impressed with the Chiefs in their last two games I’m going to go Chiefs yeah on your Mash in a tough old fight you I’ll decide during the week haven’t seen the teams yet okay I need to know who the reserve hooker is for the Chiefs well I know which side I’m on uh I me I’m on the Chiefs we will see you next week after the Grand Final just before the All Blacks Squad is named as well thanks for joining us today matua good night here we go the final for Super Rugby Pacific 2024 is set the Chiefs it’s been 11 years since their last title and the Chiefs go back to back the blues searching for rugby dominance once again the blues have won the super 12 title the blues vers the Chiefs get the pass away here it is you are go picked up by two TR The Road to Glory Starts Now all [Music]