Kostis & McCord US Open & Igloo Greens? Ep25

Peter and Gary visit Pinehurst for a US Open preview on the latest episode of their hit YouTube series and Podcast, “Kostis & McCord Off Their Rockers” a GOLF Production. Kostis and McCord talk about what it takes to win and make their picks (Scheffler?!) and break down how to play the incredible Donald Ross greens at Pinehurst #2. They discuss how diabolical these surfaces will be for the best players in the world with the superintendent of #2 John Jeffreys.

Kostis & McCord Off Their Rockers, a GOLF Production is brought to you in partnership with Golf Magazine and Golf.com, Peter Kostis and Gary McCord give their one-of-kind perspective featuring no-filters takes, irreverent humor and unparalleled understanding of the game. You can subscribe to Off Their Rockers for FREE. Kostis & McCord Off, a GOLF Production is made possible by the generous support of sponsors, including Foresight Sports, creators of the #1 launch monitor on the PGA Tour, the Quad Pro, and incredible simulators. Peter and Gary love reading your comments on the show and appreciate all the subscribers, likes, and sharing the YouTube show. They invite viewers to follow them on social media, listen to the audio podcast on Apple, Spotify, iHeart Podcasts and visit their website at KostisMcCord.com for more news and info. For sponsorship inquiries or potential guest appearances, please contact Mike Abram at mike@thegolfagency.com or call 805-748-5557

two two of the most iconic voices in golf are back to save the day and ready to entertain in their newly weekly video podcast cus and mcord Off Their Rockers we are back with another episode of Costas and mcord Off Their Rockers Mike Abram here with you with Peter with Gary on location for a US preview we are here we’re in Pinehurst North Carolina site of the 2024 United States open it’s a glorious day they’re prepping the course we’re going to get out on the course a little later today and show you a little bit about what Pinehurst number two has in store we want to thank our sponsors we also want to thank Golf Magazine golf.com uh we’re here for an inside golf event but uh Peter and Gary I haven’t been to Pinehurst since 1999 right before Payne Stewart won out here um you’ve got the most experience here at Pine I know you’ve been here before too Gary but uh Peter you shared last night with us this was like a second home for you back it was back in the day we we did golf schools here um and and uh interesting side note uh when we came in it was Bob tasy Jim flick Davis Love Myself and we did a bunch of golf schools here and one of the guys who helped us set up the range and all that stuff was Hank Haney he was he I don’t know four I don’t know he was he was uh he was uh he was trying to learn his craft as a teacher um that was the first time I met Hank so yeah I’ve got a lot of experience here and the best part about it was when we were done teaching at 4:00 we could go play number two or number four until until dark uh it was it was good times back then now couple weeks from now it’s going to be really really special I I love Pinehurst number two I think it’s a it’s a marvelous test of golf we can we can get into what um what type of player yeah I think would do well around here we can also get into the architecture obviously Donald Ross yeah this is first of all I’m quite comfortable here in this rocking did you get the rock this is it’s very seductive here just this not too if I do off just let me know would you please okay um because I make more sense when I do off um yeah I haven’t been here in 20 25 years I’ve I’ve seen the putting grain the part three the last thing I remember the the range and or was was there a teaching deal in the back yeah they built they built that for us where we that’s where we would do our our golf schools okay and uh I here’s what I remember the only thing I remember for whatever reason it was me Johnny Miller and Jerry her in the back of of the range seeing if we could keep a driver in the air for 10 seconds that’s driver hitting a golf ball in the that’s it I can’t remember anything challeng we’re back there we must have been back there for three hours Johnny Miller won he he got it to he got it to 10 seconds wow which is a long time for keep so that’s that’s my appearance all yours that’s it that’s all I remember well it’s it’s a great test um you know recently in modern times we had uh 99 2005 2014 Payne Stewart over Phil mikkelson Michael Campbell a winner as well as uh the last one was Martin ker Martin kimer he of the putter off the green yeah yeah because he couldn’t at that point having tough time negotiating the bottom of his chipping well when we go out on the golf course later I think I think you’re going to find out that that um that’s not a bad play at all no you know no if if there’s not a bunker in front of you I I always felt like that this was the genius of Donald Ross was his design around the greens in the sense that uh played here with my dad 100 years ago my dad was a 15 handicapper we both miss a green in the same place he would take a putter Whack It Up whack it up to 20 feet two Putt and make his score or whatever I’m sitting there and I’m going through all kinds of iterations of what shot I can hit to try and get it close there’s the deal and really no I put it um so it’s it’s easy to make bogeys and it’s very difficult to make pars if you if you miss the greens so I think that’s the genius of his design here and and also just what you said because the one thing a professional golfer doesn’t want to do towards the end of a round especially the 72nd hole 71st hole they don’t want to have to make decisions cuz as as they it was put in in a song they they are Comfortably Numb at that particular point and do I pitch it against the hill against a Bermuda grain do I run up with a putter do I flop it and have the chance of rolling it back past where I was going the other way so all those things come into effect as you’re playing a Donald Ross golf course because the ball willingly wants to roll away from the hole and not towards the hole thing and I’ve said this forever i’ I’ve I’ve taught all of my players this this Mantra that the first sign of pressure in competitive golf is poor decision making second sign of pressure is poor execution right yep so architecture the these days the examination isn’t about decisions as much right as it’s going to be here at Pinehurst and especially in the short game area you’re going to be faced with oh do I do this do I do that maybe I’ll try this and if you and if you walk in there and you’re not committed to your decision and you haven’t made the right decision you double bogies and triple Bogies are are snap of the fingers away right so I I’m really looking forward to this I hope it stays dry and firm because that’s when this golf course plays it’s most difficult and it’s going to challenge the players not only physically but mentally as well which I think is is the examination that the USGA wants to have yeah and and if you want to talk about a a perfect scenario to take a look at just what you said look at the last two majors you look at the PJ championship at balla uh and I played there a week before the tournament and the rough was like this right off the apron so there was no decision- making there nothing the ball goes and I I even I was I was playing with a couple of guys that own the golf course I said why why doesn’t why doesn’t Carrie hag take it and remove the rough down to the Sid because we all like to hit a ball if you’re going to go for it and you got rough this deep and it’s right on The Fringe we don’t care get in there and these guys can Splash out with a 60 straight up in the air out any rough but if that ball wants to go as they as it does in a Donald Ross when it folds and unfolds it goes way down there where now you got to uh uhuh huh you get we all remember John Daly remember that huh huh huh put in his pocket I’m out of here uh again he got fed up which a lot of guys get when they’re playing pingpong back and forth on Donald Ross scens and I I think the key Peter is basically the weather and if it it got wet at balla and they what they she 20 what they she 21 under 20 2100 je are you kidding Golf Course 7600 yards czy this golf course if it gets fast again it’s going to be brutal brutal to score yeah we’re looking a little bit before the US Open we’re out here at Pinehurst and it’s been fast it’s gotten fast it’s been dry it’s been firm we’re going to go out on the golf course a little later and we’re going to have Peter and Gary show you what it’s like these crowned Donald Ross greens and how challenging they can be rejecting a shot into them but also as they were talking about the decision making around the green guys what do you feel like as far as let’s go in a little bit into golf course architecture which we haven’t done on the show Donald Ross over 400 courses designed um came here in the early 1900s and really established Pinehurst as one of the homes of American golf with the great layout he has here and he went all throughout the country how do you think Donald Ross influence on let’s say tournament golf has been throughout the years what I mean is is he the biggest influence that there’s been maybe in Golf Course archit architecture at least in the United States well there’s a handful of them all around that same time you’ve got you’ve got uh McKenzie you’ve got Ross you got Seth rer uming tilling Hast there’s a bunch of them they all come from that same genre right um and let’s understand something golf used to be a game originally that was played along the ground mhm in Scotland right and then it slowly over the years has morphed into a game that’s played in the air but these designs of these greens were done originally when when you would play Bump and runs and you would you would roll the ball around the golf course and they’ve stood the test of time right they really it’s it’s it’s brilliant I personally think that the modern Architects uh haven’t done golf a big favor they’ve made the golf courses bigger longer uh forced you to hit it more up in the air with huge bunkers guarding the front of the green whatever they’ve changed the the examination of what it’s like to play golf right and and if you’re going to play and you got to hit it in the air uh you need distance so I think that architecture modern architecture especially uh since the the solid golf ball in 202 2001 uh it’s added to the distance problem you make a golf course longer what is the guy going to learn to do he going to hit it harder he’s going to hit it farther no question about it right and I mean we saw it again you know we’ve got this thing with the golf ball coming up with USGA where they’re going to gear it back but you go to Valhalla the golf course was 7638 yards I think and they got two par FS are 600 and these guys are hitting irons on the Green for their second shot so again when it gets wet and long they don’t care they love that cuz when it gets wet the fairways get wider because the ball doesn’t roll out and the greens are receptive so they can they can hit a five iron or 6 iron in ball is going to check now here if it’s fast that’s a it’s a totally different game of golf totally different uh between the two and they’re only what month apart basically the two tournaments so it’s it’s an it’s how do you adapt you look at Peter you look at the three guys that won here you look at Payne Stewart US Open golf of course first thing you think about is oh oh you got to drive it straight the rough that high and everything else Payne was never a guy to hit a lot of Fairways you he got it all over the lot most of the time and then you go to Michael Campbell same thing he didn’t drive it real well okay and then then you go to Martin kimer well we play a lot of golf with Martin at home and Martin didn’t dri the ball well at all either so you got three guys Define well Define didn’t drive it well didn’t drive it far didn’t drive it straight drive it straight I’m talking about the US Open those those three guys I’d go you know wait a minute those guys won the open so you learn how to adapt and I’m pretty sure most of these guys then when they were playing uh 14 uh 2005 in 1999 we’re choosing a lot of three Woods irons off the tea but again this Golf Course has changed its complexity since the redo now you better not hit it offline here it’s funny because the USGA years ago came in and and they told Pinehurst they needed to plant grass out to the pine trees grow long rough so they could have a US Open I think that was the 99 open right yep and it was also a little wet yep remember pay Payne cut off the sleeves of his of his rain gear and started a new fashion trend right which we can get about later but um uh so that was they tried to turn Pinehurst number two into a USGA examination my opinion they ruined the golf course so now what do they do they come back a few years later they say take all that grass out put in the shrub brush put in the the natural areas that wire grass and then by the way they’ve planted a few thousand more we them did he say 20,000 sprigs I’m not sure how many but I think it’s going to be less likely that you’re going to miss a fairway and end up with a clean life that’s all I’m going to say have to deal with this wire grass out here you know we’re very far inland but the feel for me here it’s there is that obviously this the old Scottish designer uh don Ross there’s the feel of Scotland even though we’re Inland because this is a Sandy based uh all and you were talking about how well this holds up and to have your dad who is a 15 handicap be able to get around and just putt the ball from off the green have those options but make it challenging for the best players in the world I think is a brilliant brilliant design that’s the genius of of good architecture make it playable for the hack or the average poor golfer yeah and then make it challenging for the great golfer right yeah now what’s happened is modern architecture in my opinion has made it impossible for the average golfer trying to challenge and failing to do so for the good golfer y yeah we I did it I just remember when you were saying that I remember the last time I played here now there’s a made for television deal where these guys played across the United States to compete and the two guys that were in the finals that were going to and it was me and retif gusen really and we’re playing the guy you know we I had a guy that was like a 17 handicap and retif was playing a guy that was what there was match play and they went and I remember I got the gist of the whole thing I just got to get it on the green anywhere I wasn’t shooting at pins cuz these guys never hit greens and they couldn’t figure out how to get it up and down they were going back and forth and bunkers and everything else so the recipe got real easy here yeah you just get it on the green as fast as you can and just try to two putut and go to the next hole when you’re when you’re planning that deal all right so that recipe let’s let’s go to the obvious question yeah who is your pick give me give me some players that you think will do well here this gets redund don’t say Scotty sh I know it gets red tired of that I’m looking at a guy can hit the ball in the Fairway with some length I’m looking for the guy that can control his golf ball distance-wise is iron shots a guy that gets a pin High every time I’m looking for that guy and I’m looking for a guy that obviously can putt it inside of six feet and all I see is SS SS and the putter he’s getting he’s getting better and if he gets good it’s not contested so you’re taking sheffler yeah yeah but we can’t it’s too easy well the asterisk to this whole thing is it’s debacle in Louisville MH and and he has been under an extreme amount of pressure for Fairly long time new child not dealing with a lot of sleep dealing with the with the arrest in in Louisville y um you know playing a lot of golf quite frankly a lot and so I I don’t know how mentally prepared he’s going to be I mean if he comes in here and he’s and he’s mentally prepared then in my book he becomes super human because he’s had to overcome a whole bunch of adversity MH right I yeah I agree with that who you who you got let’s if not let’s take him out of it um Xander you like Xander to golf course like this Xander is considered just about a power player now as far as he’s he’s gained a lot of distance I’m not sure I’m not sure distance is going to be I agree huge here especially if it’s playing firm and fast I think it brings a lot more players into the equation right y um I’m gonna look for the guys who play smart I I think obviously you got to be on your game that week to have any chance so we don’t know until that week who’s going to be actually on their game you know you look at Colin morawa you look at she Sheffer you look at Xander if they’re on their game obviously they’re going to they’re going to be there at the end but I want to know who has the most discipline to fire away from flag sticks to put it 30 ft to the right where it’s safe and then take your chances with the putt um for I every time you put a formula if you go yeah fit in pretty good we just talked about Xander schafle winning of course the winner at the PGA Championship and was battled right to the wire by brys and D Shambo does this kind of course fit Bryson D Shambo does he have that patience he has one United States open uh with no patience with no PA no patience right on a really hard J is he going to is he going to see different lines than any other human sees that Wing foot was hard in a different dimension than this place this place requires subtlety in my opinion you can’t you can’t take the sledgehammer to this place you try and do that it’s going to hit you back in the face so I I I would say Bryson would not be one of my favorites um I here’s my take on Bryson here um he’ll figure out a way to do it the one thing that he’s a little clumsy with is the high flop and you’re going to need that a lot here because he’s using onelink clubs and when you’ve got doing a high flop with a shaft that’s a seven iron shaft in your sandwich it’s hard to do you know he he always comes out flat he’s got no wrist break nothing um five for five five for five out of the bunkers at I know but that’s out of bunkers that’s a different deal this is you know when you’re sitting there we’re trying to hit on top of this roof from right here and I’m going to bounce it in there now I got to I got to get it in the air and I again he is a really an accomplished player now I mean he’s right there uh but that’s the only weakness I see and that weakness could really be exacerbated in a golf course like this where you need you need some high pitches a lot you can get away without doing that though you put it yeah and and you can bump and run it right you can you can escape without that shot yeah uh nichelson finished second to pay in 99 and one of the reasons that Phil was able to hit those shots was because the golf course was I don’t want to say soft but it wasn’t really firm and and fast because of the rain they had so um and he’s very good with the 64 degree I will I will go back on Bryson and say this if he uses his power to throttle back to four irons off the te that will roll out to 310 yards and and stuff like that and keeps the ball in the in the grass then then if he if he has the discipline to do that then he can be a f Factor y right but it to me it’s it’s it’s Greens in regulation is is the number one stat y for this week greens and regulation okay does this is he going to be more of a player that maybe does well at an Open Championship uh we’ve got an Open Championship going to be coming up this is of course this will be our third major of the year but is this type of of course someone that plays well on links courses that we can look for I again I I Peter said it earlier it’s who’s in the flow at this moment it could be yeah it could be a guy that likes to bump it around and go that way it also could be you know Bryson hits the heck out of it and figures out how to you know his irons are not you know he’s hit six irons 240 yards cuz it’s insane well crazy you got to look at the loss on most of the anyway still yeah and this go of course can look at the three guys we’ve had win here yeah you’d never pick one of those guys pain probably yeah right okay because he was in the flow then and everything else but um you don’t know here it doesn’t it doesn’t really have a uh a a very clear table of contents of what to do and how to do it well I think I think you said it earlier if the weather stays like it is and it plays firm and fast I think it brings the whole field in or pretty much the whole field right so you could get a surprise winner here uh very easily so are we going to have surprises are we going to have Scotty Sheffer coronated coronation again winning another major we’re going to bring you we’re going to go out to the course we’re going to have Peter and Gary show us what these greens are like and what the difference would be pitching the ball flopping the ball and putting the ball from off the green which would be my choice right here at Pinehurst North Carolina the US Open coming up this is our preview this is kasas mord Off Their Rockers of golf production don’t go away we’re going to take a quick break we’ll be right back with a little coach cus and mcor joining him out on pioner number to Costas and mccort Off Their Rockers a golf production is brought to you in partnership with Golf Magazine and golf.com Peter kasas and Gary McCord give their one-of-a-kind perspective featuring no filters takes irreverent humor and unparalleled understanding of the game you can subscribe to Off Their Rockers for free on our YouTube channel or wherever you listen to podcasts kasas and mord Off Their Rockers is made possible by the generous support of sponsors including foresight sports with the number one launch monitor on the PGA tour the quad Pro and their amazing simulators kasas mord Off Their Rockers isn’t just a copycat golf podcast it breaks the mold offering premium video and audio content that entertains educates and connects with Peter and Gary’s friends like Jim Nance David farity and more behind behind the scenes stories and instruction making each episode an adventure for those who live and breathe golf on Off Their Rockers the future is bold the banter is sharp and the fairways are Limitless we hope you enjoy kasas and mord Off Their Rockers a golf production Hello friends it’s Jim N of CBS Sports and I urge you to like And subscribe my brothers Costas and mcord off the Rockers right now you’ll enjoy it all right Gary here we are 16th hole 500 yeah it’s way down there way down there 536 yards yeah par yeah four say it one of the longest in major championship history yes right yes but I love this place I love Pinehurst I love this this hole in particular even though it was a it’s a par five for members it’ll be played as a par four in the championship and let’s talk about it because we mentioned earlier when we were sitting in our rocking chairs the first sign of pressure is poor decision- making yes second sign is poor execution yes this to me epitomizes decision making at pineur and what the players are going to be facing right yes so 536 prevailing wind this way yeah you’re going to be going in if you hit it 320 off the te you still got 200 yards left in plus yeah if you hit at 300 you got 236 left so watch this now if you don’t get it up there far enough Stay Stay Stay Stay Stay not a chance whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa whoa it’s going to come right back down here yeah all day as a player you’re back there in the Fairway that pops into your mind correct no question so then what’s the next thing that pops into your mind the first thing I’m looking at if I’m back there 200 something I cannot get this ball over the green if I do the slightest Little Miss on a chip and it’s going to end up back here again in your attempt to not do that you’ll do it God forbid you get it past there too far because now while these greens are roughly going to be around 14 feet on the stim meter it’s about nine going that way and it’s about 18 going this way that means fast going this way so when I go up there to hit that putt defense defense defense I’m not sure you can stop it and get it to the hole and it’s 5 536 536 yeah so let’s I’m going to go hit this putt okay are you gonna is this is this a putt to make it or you just going to try to defense I’m gonna I’m going to try and make it you’re going you’re going to oh you’re going to put you’re going to put six in the in the deal well I don’t know that yet it could be more than that because I mean if I’m standing back there my I’m going to hit the ball down here and then try to tput if I make bogey fine that’s not a bad score on a green that’s just small as a par five green and then they make it a par four so he tried to make it with a much more enthusiasm they would have liked at this point where he goes to the Cy and says get my wedge so here’s the deal while it’s walking you can be down there in two shots or or you can be down there in three shots yeah but sooner or later you’re going to be down here and that’s basically this whole characteristic of pine number two is all these greens are basically Igloo with a pin right on the top and you go off on the sides you go off in the front or you roll off on the back and it is very difficult to get the ball close pitching this this is interesting look who we got over here we got John Jeff we got the superintendent he’s a superintendent welcome thank you sir good to see you good to see you everything this place this place is in spectacular spectacular shape and I’m sure when it comes ship time it’s going to be even firmer and faster and tougher Mother Nature willing I got a question cuz we talked a little while ago and you said something very interesting because 9 to 10 times out of 10 a person down here is going to take their Putter and whack it up the hill primarily because there’s no flat spot to land the ball so you can’t really judge your first bounce and that means you can’t control your distance right but you said something very devious to me know you a short time but I can already tell you Dev your your quandry is to get the Fring brass just right so it doesn’t say to the player it’s an automatic putt explain that to me yes so a lot of our work leading up to the championship is working not only on the mowing Heights but the texture of the grass and how we mow it where somebody stands over this ball it’s not just grab the putter unless putt there may be a little more grass there do I chip okay I’ve got my wedge in my hand now do I want to go back get that putter so there’s thought so we’ve induced thought with just the right conditions in these surrounds with firmness and the moisture and the he of cut um that it’s not automatic so the Examination for binur number two is not just the physical examination it’s a decision making it’s a mental examination as well 100% you know and to me that’s the genius of Donald Ross and that whole golden age of architecture Rainer McKenzie all of them uh they they they really knew how to put decision making they knew how to challenge the player to to pick the right shot at the right time and if they didn’t chances were they were going to make a bad swing and hit a bad shot a lot of the thought is not only while the ball’s in the air but what does it do when it hits the ground yeah where does it release to and and how does it is received when it hit the ground now most of the time if I look at this grass the the the Rin of it is pretty much downhill is that correct that’s correct so now that that that induces you to have to be Pitch Perfect with your contact point if you’re going to chip it correct I don’t know how you would even think about chipping it into this grain and if you m hit it 1/16 of an inch you’re making bogy or double bogey right in essence cuz these greens excuse me these greens are going to be I’m guessing 14 on Sunday pretty close yeah and AR greens again they’re Igloo correct okay and they fall off on all Corners so 14 is stupid fast for flat right this is demonic yeah it is we say our green you they’re 6,800 foot in average but the pinable location may be 3,000 to 2,000 square ft depending on the green so while they look large from a blimp or from a TV or or whatever once you get out here you see how small they are yeah well you can look at it here I mean there’s there there’s chronical age there’s biological age right there’s there’s square footage and then there’s playable square footage correct and playable square footage around here is a whole lot smaller than what people think it is exactly well thank you very much for coming out and us some detail fantastic can’t wait to watch can’t wait and good job by the way this thing’s ready right now thank you app no here watch this go ahead put it up there because I mean here’s what I’m as a player here’s what I’m thinking okay don’t be an idiot here but don’t let it come back to you so what’s my tendency I’m going to give it a whack cuz I’m going past that hole to get it there but then you get over and you go wait a minute you’re going to have an eight-footer down the hill what are you going to do to this one or you’re going to lag it so basically I’m looking I’m looking at bogy right here before I start if I do anything stupid I’m going to make double or maybe I’ll hold see I think the play here if you make your if you make your mistake get them faster John come on I think you got to make your mistake short and play up the hill all the way whether you’re on the green or not make your mistake long and they’re going to come after you that’s it 16 here at pioner number two a terrific golf hole we hope you enjoyed this episode of caom Court Off Their Rockers little US Open preview from Pinehurst North Carolina thanks to Peter thanks to Gary thanks to Golf Magazine golf.com thanks to all the you viewers and subscribers we appreciate uh all the follows we appreciate the subscriptions the likes and make sure to put comments down below uh we love reading them and seeing them we’ll get back to you on those and share it with your friends and hit that notification button so you don’t miss an episode of mord off their rockers we’re going to be having a little par three discussion coming up on a future episode from right here at Pinehurst at the beautiful cradle which is right behind us thanks for watching C mord Off Their Rockers we’ll be back with another episode real soon