Co-hosts Kathy Bissell and Gary Van Sickle talk with Hughes Norton, one of golf’s first Superagents and his new book, Rainmaker. Norton signed, among others, Tiger Woods and Greg Norman, but also Curtis Strange, Ben Crenshaw, Bill Rodgers, Tom Watson, Mark O’Meara, Peter Jacobsen, and Bobby Clampett, David Graham, Nancy Lopez and others when he was in charge of golf at IMG. McCormack, who hired Norton out of college, soon assigned him to the golf division. Two years after delivering at least $60 million in guaranteed sponsorship money to Tiger Woods, Norton was dismissed by Woods. Not long after that, he was fired by McCormack but given a severance package of $9 million. Hughes has been silent since that time. He’s now telling his story.
The book is a wonderful read, and Norton credits George Peper, former editor of Golf Magazine, who helped him craft it.
Hello my name is Kathy Bissell welcome to the Golf Show 2.0 today’s guest is really an incredible human being he is Tiger Woods first agent so Gary why don’t you introduce him well you said it Kathy he’s the guy in golf who put the super
In super agent yeah if you had a golf sports agent Hall of Fame name the only two guys you need in it are Mark McCormack who founded IMG and heels Norton the guy he hired worked for tiger and we’ve got him today because he’s got a new book just out rain maker
But just not about the weather it’s about making it rain baby and he did for Tiger Woods and Greg Norman and a lot of other people who mattered in the 90s Hughes welcome back and you’ve been on radio silence for 25 years you took a quarter a century off my gosh what a
You’re the comeback Story of the Year in golf oh my gosh thanks I thought it was Anthony Kim but you cleared the cleared the decks on that one no you’re wait look he was he was a meteor across the sky who came and went and be kind of
Missed him you were a fixture for a long time and you were you know Anthony Kim was uh he was no Tiger Woods I think I’d had so much of the you know chasing the next Superstar living in hotels and you know airplanes the Perpetual road trip that’s
The life of a golf agent um you know listening perpetually to what have you done for me lately and toward the end you know and you’ll be familiar with this Gary having to defend the company that I work for you know we we got to be IMG got to be a
Four-letter word uh to a lot of people and so made so many golfers Rich yes and not just golfers other you know other people with Talent also an associate of mine who was the managing director of img’s Australia office once described what we did as making rich people
Richer well I wonder how we describe today’s Golf Scene but that’s another show on another day we’ll do that later you mentioned the the agent Hall of Fame you know for a lot of people in this will Gary the only place agents go is the Hall of
Shame but I I will I will take I will take your compliment with with pride thank you very much well I thought you were gonna say the you know hell of fame or something like that I thought Straight to Hell or something but look you you had a job you served your
Clients well and maybe even too well and why is it that the the richest the greedy what the richest people get the even greedier once they’re already rich can you explain that it’s funny isn’t it you know a lot of superstars uh not just in golf but in other sports tennis for
Example um Pete sers did this Andre Agassi did this toward the end of his career um in golf we have a whole ly of You Know Jack Nichols was with IMG for 10 years left formed his own kind of management team in Columbus Johnny Miller did the same after about seven
Years with her with his first agent sebie did it and today Rory maore has done it a couple of times and trino did it a couple of times and what I’m talking about is the superstars after a while no matter what great job you’ve
Done for them a lot of them say you know I’ve sat in all the meetings I know how all this works and it isn’t that they’re trying to save the commissions so much because they’ve made a lot of money it’s just that they there’s kind of a disease that
Happens when you’re really good at something you’re number one in the world you tend to start thinking that you’re really smart about everything um and and that sort of thinking is is misplaced a lot of times I don’t think Jack if he had to do it again would leave IMG I
Mean he has been on the verge of bankruptcy twice as you guys probably know and uh now is in a I think ongoing lawsuit with the guy who who purchased you know his commercial rights a few years ago but it’s it’s this um maybe
It’s the ego you know I I I want to sit at the head of the table I don’t want to sit next to Hughes while he makes the pitch you know I I want to have my own people um it happens over and over and
Over well I know tiger is sued artist he resents people making money off of him and I think maybe at some point that includes IMG taking commissions but he he sued that guy who just who painted him he sued somebody else you know uh and he had other reasons why he got rid
Of people but for people who don’t no let’s discuss how Hughes yeah met let’s back up to the let’s back up to the greatest deal the two greatest contracts in golf history at the time and probably still relative to the time was you signed Tiger Woods and when he
Turned Pro to sums of money that no one could believe at the time tell us about how that happened and you know give us the dollar figures don’t even thanks to live don’t sound that much anymore but in 1996 they were unbelievable astronomical really you know record
Setting if you will I mean think of it this way when when tiger signed his contract with Nike which was five years and $40 million that was 50 to 100% more than the established stars of the game at the time we’re making who were Greg
Norman and Nick falo um I we knew that because falo was a client of imgs and Greg was a client for many many years the same with Titus which was 20 million um what made those deals to me um most significant was the guaranteed nature
Now what do I mean by that for five years if tiger had missed every single cut as a pro not likely yeah based on his amateur record but even so the money was guaranteed there were no outs for Nike there were no clawbacks same for Titleist and I submit to you that that
That piece that Financial Security in his case generational wealth you know set up at the beginning eases the mind of a player um you know how ephemeral this game can be you know one week you’ve got it the next week that you don’t turns out tiger had it every
Single week at the time nobody knew that and and that sort of you know to know going in I’m set you know I don’t have to worry about gez I’m missing three Cuts in a row and it’s I’m spending a lot of money what next so that was huge
And the numbers were huge and the funny thing is um there was never the the slightest bit of appreciation or or or hey hell of a deal hes it it just and it wasn’t that he was rude so much as it just didn’t matter to him guys he he he he lived for
Competition practice play more practice going to the gym that’s all that mattered to him yeah and and the money we I talk about it in the in the book Gary you you you picked up on it I use the word intrusion as much as Greg Norman by comparison you know lived for
Fame fortune and wealth the Ferraris in the garage and the and the the yachts and the the Gulf Stream airplanes tiger it was secondary it was oh yeah you know that that’s that’s that’s pretty good what’s you know where do I go next where am I going to play well you those deals
Also included incentives uh bonuses for winning Majors how much did that add up to for Tiger extra money over the first five years it was $8 million more than he earned and I mean he earned it but somebody had to have the Huts to put put million dollar bonuses for for stuff in
There and and I I was able to do that so what was uh what was first what are the master what was first prize in the Masters at that time I don’t think it was a million yet was it it was a lot less than that for sure yeah so that was
A huge bonus yeah yeah and you know he had to earn it but um it it just was it was it actually took my breath away the fact that that I could you know at the end when he’s even when he was signing the document I’ve been working on it for
Months and months and months it was seriously well it was his it was his first one you know he’d never done it before he probably thought that it was the same for Norman it was the same for other people they you know you have he had no perspective for sure yeah
As a 20-y old kid turning pro but he told me he told me once um I think it was after he won in Las Vegas um I don’t remember but we were in The Press Room and and he he said I was there and he said to a writer uh the writer was
Saying hey how about those contracts you sign unbelievable and tiger looked down because the writer had up on his computer the first place prize money that tiger had just won it was $297,000 kind of pales by comparison right but tiger said no forget the contract that they’re just paper money
He said all that stuff that’s the word he used he said this this right here this this prize money that’s what’s important to me H how tough was it to sell Phil Knight and Nike on this unprecedented deal at the time I’m sure a lot of people have seen the Air Jordan movie
With Matt Damon we know Phil Knight’s kind of out there and wanted the top guy but nobody in golf was getting this kind of money was was that a tough pitch well what made it you know and I full credit to IMG you know if I’m out by myself
Doing this as a sole practitioner I would not have had the the advantage of the resources of IMG but I talked to our tennis people I looked at agassi’s contract I knew what Jim Curry was making I knew what they were paying the top tennis stars and it was telephone
Numbers compared to golf and Nike didn’t know much about golf because they were just getting into it so the timing was serendipitous to say the least you know they were used to oh you know if if sanus wins Wimbledon here’s $500,000 that sort of thing so um had they had they
Uh asked around in the golf industry that maybe these numbers never would have been possible but they didn’t and so they were just kind of Dipping their toe in the water in golf um they had started doing some little clothing and shoe contracts but they they had not
Gotten into the hard Goods stage yet that came years later they were just entering into you know can we do golf clothing can we do golf shoes and you know Nike with their their their arrogance and and welld deserved with the products that they make this sure we
Can so it led it you know the timing could not have been better and the other part of it Gary that that was key is is as I write in the book Nike and Phil Knight just adore Superstars they have to have the number one Michael Jordan
Andre Agy go right down the list in their history and luckily again for me those two guys were were in the in the process of winding down their careers so as I walk into the Nike campus I’m thinking they Superstars they’re used to Superstars the landscape’s getting a
Little bare out here yeah so that sort of motivated me or empowered me to ask for a bigger number perhaps than I than I otherwise would have because the pitch was how would you like to enter golf with the most exciting uh talented player since Jack Nicholas and that’s
Music to fill Knight’s ears was there any kind of Celebration with you and our tiger uh when you guys finally signed the deal any kind of what I’m sorry celebration like a did you do anything or I mean maybe he I I don’t know you tell us any
Was there any kind office we’re s we’re in Milwaukee what an exciting town to to make your professional debut right not exactly Vegas or New York or LA but that’s where the tourament was we’re in a hotel suite uh Earl tiger and myself and I come in with three contracts to
Sign the uh Nike agreement $40 million guaranteed the titlist agreement $ million guaranteed and the IMG representation agreement where we would you know uh I we I would be his agent and we sat there and uh put them on the table and I started to go through them
You know page three page four tiger just who where do I sign well he trusted you I mean that’s that’s saying a lot about you Hughes definitely but it was also Kathy at that point you just would like a little Hughes this is is unbelievable well like I said know yeah
Goad well Earl Earl Earl would have known that’s big money you know stupid money for him well but he thought his son was worth stupid money he was right but he was the chosen one come on yeah he he was right but I I had educated
Earl through the process um you know of S2 and I think along the way he probably asked hey just out of curiosity what is what does Palmer make on this stuff what is it I and I would say I can’t tell you exactly but but trust me this is this is
A lot more and that leads us into anticipating your next question uh about the split I looking back definitely feel that the age difference between me and tiger was a factor I’m 30 years older than this kid and the relationship you know starting when he was 12 was always
With Dad you know because I talked to Dad about stuff and tiger was doing whatever basically dad said whatever dad told him to so um anyway there we are in Milwaukee and I just wanted I don’t know did I deserve to be a couple of people come in from
The sidelines with champagne bottles and give me the locker room uh you know congratulations I don’t know I just it would have been nice well it’s like it’s like David Duval said after he won the British Open is is that all it is you know and
Sometimes that is all it is and isn’t that a fascinating story as a sidebar you know David unbelievable Talent another client of mine and and he finally achieves you know that same week I think refresh my memory Gary or the next week he became number one in the
World y so he’s British Open champ and number one in the world what every kid aspires to and it was just flat he was he was kind of crushed that he didn’t feel more joy or whatever it was and and it and it he never really played the
Same thereafter crazy yeah I know he had some back issues that probably hurt him but um you know he was one of those what is Byron’s Nelson’s quote was to play this game you gota be either really smart or you can’t if you’re really smart or you’re really
Dumb the way to play the game if you’re in between you got no chance and uh I don’t know I I tell the story in the book um you saw it where David Duval was was the outlier of all players I ever represented we played at Pebble Beach uh
One year as a team we actually won oh that’s right and and I go into his hotel room to pick him up uh the night before and he was still in the shower or something I’m looking around and uh an Anne Rand book is on the bedside table
And there’s two other books with book marks in them and I’m thinking wait every guy I’ve ever represented either putts on the carpet in his hotel room or watches TV all night this is unbelievable guy’s reading books yeah yeah he he was he was probably too smart he had too many other
Interests and you know I I remember my favorite David Deval quote I still quote him all the time is he was asked why he doesn’t spend more time practicing and he said how many perfect six irons in a row do I have to hit I love that so I
Don’t want to say the game was too easy for him but it didn’t challenge him as much as you know reading stuff did and uh you remember what you remember what Greg Norman said about why don’t you hit more balls on the Range hey man doesn’t take much to warm
Up a Rolls-Royce right yeah I was gonna say it was some good comeback to that and I can’t remember what said yeah it still it still kills me that Nike never capitalized on tiger in the equipment area by having a set of Tiger Wood signature kids irons or Tiger Wood set
They would have sold 10 million of those sets yeah I I it would have flown out the door these the guys who when they designed their golf ball they put the the numbers like so small you can’t even see it it’s like half the size of a
Dimple like an artist did it who you know you have to able to identify your golf ball when it’s in the grass right oops we lost Hughes H come back wait a minute I’ll get you back in I have to find my cursor there you are the host can
See you’re in the show we lost you briefly sorry yeah I’ve been lost for 25 years come on so they they never had Tiger Tiger Woods Equipment for kids especially and he would have sold a million of them so I don’t know why that was but that’s a great point and and now
That you mention it Wally uhan has been a great friend of mine forever still is and I never I never pushed that point with him and and it might not have been appropriate for Titleist but it’s certainly a cool marketing idea well I I you know I don’t I don’t think at the
Time I don’t think people thought the kids Market was really there just like they still weren’t convinced about the women’s Market but tiger was the game changer and that was an opportunity Miss maybe I don’t know so tell let’s go to the let’s go to
The bad part where I mean just a little over two years after the greatest deals ever in golf uh tiger decides to part ways and there were some really interesting backstories in your book rain maker about that how’s that for Product Promotion uh hold it up hold it up there
A little longer there yeah there you go rain maker a maker okay there’s the are tell us a little bit about what you think really ultimately uh you said that the age difference think I I agreee with that but then again he he one of his buddies was you know Marco miror living
Right up the street and he was older so what do you think really happened um I think that uh I I you know I’ve been searching for this resolution for for a quarter of a century because tiger not only didn’t give me any he gave me none I talk in the book about
How uh when he when he fired me I finally got him to meet me face to face he wouldn’t even sit down he was standing up he hates confrontation I mean let’s face it which is so ironic because on the golf course on the golf course he confronts everybody and just
Is so courageous and this this was you know cowardly frankly in my opinion it’s just anyway uh so you search for reasons obviously I mean it’s it’s the shock of a lifetime here I am 50 years old I’m envisioning you know every agent’s dream is if you could find a generational
Talent and then have the generational talent instead of blaming out like a lot of them do the can’t miss prospects to to become what tiger had quickly become and I’m thinking this is going to be the greatest next 10 15 years of my life whatever and he just he just Yanks the
Rug out I think um you mentioned Oma look Oma’s denied this to me multiple times uh we talk in the book about um it came out in in the Jeff Benedict and Arman cayan book uh the quote from from them analyzing that situation was once Oma decided that he didn’t want Hughes as
His personal agent because I represented Mark also and that happened a few months before tiger fired me so once Oma decided I wasn’t his guy the the authors say and since Oma and tiger were so close living a couple doors down from each other at Alworth um you know that
The writing was on the wall you know that Hughes was on the clock um the irony there is that um I had been the one when when we moved tiger from California to avoid taxes to Florida at the beginning of his career we put him at Alworth Mark McCormack had a house
There and and Mark omero was there a lot of other players as you guys remember and we um I called Mark he was a client of mine said Mark look you don’t have to do this if you don’t want but I’m a lot older than this kid and you are older
Too but you’re more of a big brother um and you can kind of help him with you know learning the ropes of the tour he’s never done this before the week to week stuff and what you’re supposed to to do and how you do it and so forth Mark said
I’d be delighted to do it to you it’s an honor that you would ask me and then in the end um you know I have a pretty strong feeling that Mark if he didn’t initiate it that when tiger said geez you know I don’t know about this guy
Hughes Mark probably said well you know that’s that’s why I left him or whatever I’m I’m speculating um I know this um there’s been a lot of stuff that the cayan book says that uh quotes Earl there was a famous quote I think you probably remember Gary you know Earl
When when I asked about tiger leaving me said oh he Hughes is all about the money you know that that’s all he cares about and I’m thinking to myself well isn’t that well that’s what you were paid to care about isn’t that what you hired me
For but yeah that’s what your job was but but Earl I you know I talked to him and he he confessed to me he said and I think it’s been written about to um I can’t remember if it’s in thean book but elsewhere Earl said to Tiger when tiger
Told him he what he was wanted to do get rid of me said in so many words hey hang on a second tiger let’s think about this Hughes has been very very good to us I know he’s huh I think what happened you know tiger
Was now a young man he’s in Florida on his own they’re back on the west coast they’re not together as much as they as they had been for so many years and in the end I I’m I’m I think that g that that Earl and tia good parents you have
To sort of admire him for this came to the conclusion we think our son’s making a mistake but he’s a big boy now you know it’s time he make his own decisions and you know he he he may regret this but we’re not gonna try to force him to
Do something he doesn’t want to do at that juncture if he was already set so financi om wouldn’t have gotten any kind of a finders fee for bringing him over to his group would he uh no anybody would well that’s that one was a problem let’s talk about your overwhelming list
Of successes he yeah you you signed every guy who was I’m exaggerating you sign so many so many names just run through the your list of Hall of Famers really okay chronologically my first client was Laura Bob but In fairness Mark had signed her um I started in late
72 Mark signed her in early early in the year of 1972 but she was my first client um and thereafter yeah sort of chronologically they went Tom Watson he only stayed for a year okay because his his wife wanted as her brother to represent but we did a
Great year for Tom and then very significantly Curtis Strange I mean we we needed a stake in the ground at that point in time because all the top young players were going elsewhere while Mark was busy building the company uh in other sports besides golf Nancy Lopez was also
76 um then uh Greg in 82 um then David Duvall uh and then tiger um and and and and so and then we had all those players were number one in the world at one time or another and I had two number twos that aren’t spoken
About as much but I’d love both these guys Bill Rogers yeah um who frankly his year in 1981 is so overlooked I I submit Gary’s a great historian of the game I submit it’s in the top 10 years anybody’s ever had I mean he won seven
Times all around the world yeah he was number two that year in in it wasn’t really a world ranking but and then David Graham kind of a crusty tough character from Australia one of the greatest competitors of all time you know he won two majors in 22 months um
And by the way has as many uh you know Majors as Greg Norman and yet I saw a list the other day Gary of top Australian players you know everybody loves list Graham was like number seven and I’m thinking what well every every it’s like the you know turn on MTV the
List of the greatest band of all time and the Beatles are number six okay you people wer around you might have missed a part where they didn’t change music they changed the world but that’s okay you you don’t know you wouldn’t but look recent recent bias right recency bias
Had for a while too didn’t you I’m sorry did you have cruncha for a while dided Ben for about seven years um but but the the the the recency bias kind of leads into another part which I like about this book is you know for a 25 or 30
Year old today you say the name Curtis Strange they either have no idea or a kid said to me the other day oh yeah he’s that white-haired guy with Scott Van Pelt in you know on Thursday and Friday before the Masters so what was fun about this book was was
You know bringing back to life some of these characters from 25 years ago who were big deals in golf and have sort of because of recency bias you know been sort of not forgotten but but but pushed aside um and and the other thing as you
Know we talk about the the three threads of of narrative in the book which which George did brilliantly you my story as an agent which we’ve spent most of the time today talking about the history of progolf yeah remember in the early 70s when I came on the scene you know the
Pro tour was a mom and pop operation yeah literally compared to the billions with a bee that that have that we are looking at today this Juggernaut of money and then the other thing is sports management it’s amazing Gary aren’t you amazed that there’s never been a
Definitive history written of IMG I mean this is the guy he this is the father of sports management this guy created the business Martin mccom maybe maybe that’s your second book that’s too hard 220 Pages was hard enough the history of would be 500 pages that’s exactly why your book rain
Maker I considered an important history lesson much like uh Hank Haney’s book on tiger the big miss this is stuff that’s information that’s gone and you preserved history you did everybody in golf a big favor now I’m sure you had wanted to maybe leave a legacy for your
Family so they could read like oh this is what my this what my grandfather did what was it like you know I know Johnny Miller we were trying to do a book deal with him and he wasn’t really interested because he you know had a lot of stuff
Going on but when you said Gee wouldn’t it be great if your kids could understand what it was like for you to play in the 70s against Nicholas and boy the lights flicked on in his eyes and then he was interested in that so yeah B does both of those things preserves
Important history and you know leaves your family this is what this is what my life was like and you know so far we’re now on sort of day three since it was published um the reaction has has has blown us away um you know I never looked
At Amazon lists of stuff before where to this morning number one on Amazon’s new releases in golf number one and number two and the way they do it is number one is the hard cover and number two is Kindle so that’s and then what really blew us away there’s some category called
Entertainment on Amazon entertainment and George sent me this um yesterday we are number one two and three on the Entertainment Book category hard cover audio version which I recorded and Kindle and all behind us are all these books about Hollywood and stuff and I’m going seriously I mean what’s wrong with
This the star factor of Greg Norman and Tiger Woods particularly Tiger Woods yeah you know and nobody nobody knows what went on behind the scenes that um at all except you and some other people at IMG and tiger and his late father and his mother one thing was we should
Mention he Hughes keeps referencing George that’s George pepper George pepper who Co wrote the book with him he was a longtime editor of Golf Magazine and he’s really good and he’s written 15 other books and and I mean if if people find this a good read the
Credit goes to George he did I’m a pretty good writer but he he blows me away and and I didn’t mention this but um we knew each other during this era you know frequently we were on other sides opposite sides of the table because I was negotiating a book deal
With that he did with Curtis or Greg and and he’s uh he’s brilliant I mean he’s a wonderful wonderful writer and he makes me laugh he’s he’s very funny he was the only guy smart enough to buy a house SL condo on the corner of uh on the 18th
Overlooking the 18th hole in St Andrews the right side of going for nothing and then he sold it for 70 Killion dollars so he had that going for him so he yeah he he he looked ahead he knew what he was doing and he and he Shameless plug
For George he wrote a wonderful book about about his seven years living there with his wife Libby called I think it’s sojourn at St Andrews or something like that everybody should read that it’s great well for George it’s one of those great books rain maker you get done and
Like ah I wanted even more it was fun and we didn’t even get into Craig Norman because oh I I had one question I have to ask about Greg Norman before we go you mentioned that he he he’s sure he’s a great businessman and business mind uh I I don’t know how many
Businesses he’s still involved in if any I know he’s got some endorsements uh is and you probably wouldn’t know this but is he really that financially well off these days or what his business status now as far as you know yeah I don’t think let’s be
Fair I don’t think that his dream or vision of being a business magnate or Tycoon uh ever came to fruition you know he was in the wine business he was endorsing wagu beef and stuff that I thought was a little goofy but you know everybody can do whatever they want but
He um he you talk about his financial status I mean I promise you with the numbers being thrown around that there was a 50 to 100 million in there from from uh the private investment fund of the Saudi for Greg to front this whole operation I mean if if they’re paying
Players what they’re paying and I’m making this up it might it might have been less uh he needed me negotiating with with with the FC I don’t think he’s you can still see the Greg Norman clothing lines but they’re it’s kind of usually in the it’s not a a highend it’s
More like a discount line now and I don’t think he’s involved with that I think didn’t he I think he sold that off it’s a great it’s a great Point Reebok with the with the Greg Norman multicolor shark logo that that’s the great you know brand that I ever was involved
Creating and it’s it it’s it should still be selling it should it should have lived far beyond gray like the lacost you know the the alligator no one remembers that that was a famous tennis player named Renee lacost it’s it’s lived on as a brand and I think honestly
That was Greg’s dream with the shark logo and it it hasn’t happened so well he’s he’s done some things to a few people that have probably made them not want to have his shark logo anymore I was interested couples you guys I’m sure saw this Fred came out I think last year
Sometime with all this live stuff and Fred is the nicest guy in the world never says has a bad word for anybody and he his quote was somebody was asking about Li him about Liv and Greg and he he said Greg Norman has been disliked for 25
Years I was surprised he said that really and truly you know as soon as he got famous he distan himself from everybody in the tour he flies in in a helicopter did he you know he used to be one of the guys drinking the beer after
The r with everybody and then he’s you know he’s a super star coming in the limo and he doesn’t mingle with anybody anymore and he was friends with Jack Nicholas for a while and and that went South um you know he he I don’t know he
Was above it all I guess I don’t know he was our greatest salesman for a while he’d go in the locker room and I I I’ve heard him say this he he’d call out to some player hey you’re not with IMG guess you don’t like
Money no I mean it’s a good way to put it well there there’s more there’s a lot more of this a lot more where this came from in Rain Maker by Hughes Norton and George pepper before before we let Hughes go I want to just thank you for
Including so many good quality comments about Dean Beman in Rain Maker because as as you mentioned Dean started a lot of really terrific things on behalf of the PGA tour players and it would be a shame if you know he were not mentioned and uh his influence on the tour past
Present and even future so I appreciate you doing that it’s a great point for sure I have highest regard for him in researching all of that and reviewing it in my mind they were really some parallels a lot of people didn’t like Dean Bean people like me but the stuff
We both did especially Dean just yeah incredibly impressive yeah he created the modern golf tour for sure yeah Absolut well are you are you out of the Shadows now are you going to have a profile you going to be at golf tournament what are you what are you
Doing next Hughes Norton I’m so out of it that Simon Ander said to me the other day you know it would really help on Amazon if you do a an author profile and I said what’s that that was the end of the conversation well you tell them they can
Use this on from YouTube Anytime they like yeah I can’t wait to hear it guys fun talking to you it was great it was great having you it was great here again thank you for writing this book I enjoyed it and I think most people who
Like golf will I love it thank you Gary again for the wonderful write up on the first call which uh if people haven’t seen it they should find it wonderful yeah you know you can tell George the I liked all the stuff you wrote and not
Not so much what he did but you know just to needle him a little bit we don’t want to go to his thanks for having me guys enjoy
