Chad Mumm on season two of Netflix “Full Swing”

Smylie Kaufman is joined by Chad Mumm, the executive producer of Netflix’s hit golf series “Full Swing,” as season two premieres. Smylie and Chad discuss major storylines ranging from Rory’s last-minute participation in season 1 (and full episode in season 2), the emotion behind both Joel Dahmen and Wyndham Clark’s episodes, and the arc that led to this season’s Rickie Fowler episode. Plus … could there be a Spring Breakers episode in the future?? Only time will tell!

00:00 how Chad got into this profession
02:55 the level of access Full Swing had to behind-the-scenes moments
05:38 educating new audiences on how golf works
07:24 the impact Full Swing had on Joel Dahmen
10:07 the process of choosing which players will be featured
12:31 any players who regretted saying certain things on camera?
15:42 how would Chad describe season 2 of Full Swing
18:15 getting Rory to participate in Full Swing season 1
20:54 the luck involved in finding the most compelling player storylines
26:14 why LIV was featured less heavily in season 2
28:56 Rory comparing himself to his peers, like Brooks Koepka
30:42 Smylie’s favorite episode of season 2, the Wyndham Clark ep
33:22 how much Smylie enjoyed the way each episode ended, and the music choices
36:15 Smylie relating to the Rickie Fowler episode in season 2
38:14 Will there be a Spring Breakers episode in the future???
39:39 Golf becoming “cool”
43:02 How much more footage was captured for season 2 compared to season 1?
47:11 Will Smylie make a comeback to get featured on Full Swing?
47:47 The two Ryder Cup episodes that close out season 2
56:14 Keegan Bradley’s Ryder Cup snub
58:30 Go watch season 2 of Full Swing now!

All right welcome to the Smiley Show Chad mom Chad I tell you what man uh I just finished watching pretty much all of full swing season 2 luckily I was given the screener access so I I’ve gotten to see it all and we’re going to get into the entire conversation of full

Swing season two the man that helped produce it all and season one as well but Chad I want to get to know you just a little bit better and how you got into the into this position this profession you know where did this did this Journey

All start for you yeah man well first off like huge fan of yours huge fan of this podcast I’m I’m I’m honored to be on it you’ve had some amazing guests and some great great conversations here so I’ll try to the high bar yeah I mean look I I’ve been playing

Golf like golf’s been my thing my whole life um I’ve been you know really fortunate to you know start as a as a young kid I learned when I was six years old my dad was in the Air Force and you know the joke about Air Force bases they

Put the runway in first then the golf course then they build everything else I kind of you know had access to golf as at a young age uh and then you know my first ever job was like a stock boy at a golf store in Georgia I worked as a cart

Boy when I was in college I went to ug I I worked at the golf course there and watched the the guys like Brian Haron and Bubba and that whole crew like bombing it off the range I work on the other side of the range so uh yeah

Golf’s always been my thing you know I’ve been really lucky to to have a a pretty like good career as a producer and and make a lot of different kinds of television shows um been working in media my whole career and you know full swing was was a sort of eight Nye

Process to kind of get the trust of of not just the PGA Tour but also the governing bodies of the sport who run the majors and and the players and their agents and their spouses and to put it all together into this thing was sort of this like multi-year I mean really multi-year

Like process of just kind of never quitting and you know I I run a I was running a film and TV business out here in Los Angeles and we do development meetings all the time and we go through all the various projects and I kind of

Had a rule where like if you don’t have an update on your project in you know over a six month period it comes off the Slate but since I was the boss every time we get to the Golf Show I’d be like staying on you know and every I can’t

Tell you how many times I sat in our meetings and and was came up and I’d say no update and broke my every rule I had in the book for our team about like leaving it on the Slate and and one day in 2019 after you know playing golf with

Some execs at the PGA Tour Chris wandell most notably um you know I got to tell him hey we have an update and and from that moment you know the show was boring and and and we’re just so thrilled to share with the World season two which I

Am so excited to talk to you about yeah and I’m I’m sure when you left the golf course that day with the expect of hey we are going to get to get full access to the PJ tour I imagine you had to be a little bit kind of nervous about just

That opportunity but also excited knowing just about how you know the PJ tours followed on the television the broadcast and the stories but you don’t really get the indepth and just day-to-day stuff that you see behind the curtains with these guys yeah yeah I mean look like after grinding out for so

Long to kind of finally get the opportunity to get it made it was just like I I was just so pumped and that’s probably the most consequential round of golf I’ve ever played in my entire life um and and you know it’s it’s kind of awesome that that this show got its

Start like on the golf course I think it’s like very fitting but um you know I think when when we when I first sat down so our you know box media Studios produced this show it’s co-produced with Box tobox films they make like drive to survive and and you know break point a

Bunch of other shows and when I first met met with them they’re not golfers they’re you know Paul U Martin and James G Reese and and Warren Smith they’re they’re all from London and England and we sat down at dinner in LA and and I

Said look I I think this there’s a real opportunity in golf and you know not being golf fans they also saw that because they had all this these sort of preconceived notions about like what professional golf would be like and and what those athletes would be like and

And James um James K Reese one of the founders of box to box said you know what I love about this is like anytime you get behind the curtain of anything it’s never what you expect and I love the fact that like non hardcore golf fans are going to come with some

Expectations about what they think this is going to be and that just means in the first five seconds we can kind of completely subvert them and you know season one I I I thought we did an amazing job of like you know bringing the world to life and really like

Pulling back the curtain on some of these stories and and not just like the players but the their caddies and their spouses and their friends friends and like kind of the the the the camaraderie that exists out there in professional golf in a really consequential year

Where there was a Schism and all of a sudden they’re looking around the locker room someone going to live you know what’s going to happen um but going into season two like we don’t we already established the world you know we don’t have to explain what a cut is we don’t

Have to explain that you know a tournament’s four days and you know and if you miss the cut you don’t get paid and we don’t have to tell you what a par is we can just kind of throw you right back into the action and you know season

Two kind of picks up right where season one ends and and I think it’s just a it gets going and builds momentum and takes you all the way to the end so yeah in season one you just kind of mentioned just having to educate a a potential non-golf audience that you’re trying to

Introduce the PGA Tour to was was there thoughts during that uh season one and how you produced it thinking do we have to explain all this or do you did you really feel like did we need to educate this Netflix audience on just you know things that come natural to us in the

Golf world yeah I mean look I am the biggest golf like hardcore golf fan that exists in the world probably and so that you know that’s torture sometimes like trying to but we also you know you having made you I’ve made a bunch of other shows for Netflix and I think like

It’s hard to Fathom just how big Netflix is and and when you you know the numbers a million people 50 million people 180 million people like it just it gets so mindboggling when you think of the scale of how many people watch Netflix shows and you just realize like not only is it

Not just hardcore golf fans it’s not even just like it’s not even people in the US it’s people all over the world I mean the show is translated into like 50 plus languages and gets put in 190 countries I mean it is it is like everywhere and and you have to you have

To tell stories you have to give people a grounding where they have a reason to root for somebody and so you kind of have to explain the rules you know and the basics of it and and then you can pull people into kind of human stories

And from there it’s like you can make it relatable and you can make you know you can humanize these athletes who do incredible stuff out on the golf course but you know you feel the stakes for them and so for us yeah it was really important knowing that the vast majority

Of the audience aren’t going to be hardcore golf fans we had to like we had to explain kind of the basics but you know now we don’t have to do that anymore we can just throw you right into the action I love it I love it but I I I

Understand that uh being how big Netflix is and you know I think one of the uh really neat things that came out of just the first season of full swing is you know for the most part the PGA Tour to become a star you know you had to play

Well and it didn’t come from just being a really nice guy and a cool person and I think in season one having someone like Joel Damon you know he’s a guy that I think everybody on the PGA tour knew he was one of the coolest dudes out

There but like really the world and the Really the golf audience I I would say probably had no clue just what type of guy Joel Damon was you know I think for you like being able to not just change the live of of a guy like Joel Damon but

I think that’s the really um the cool part of the business of golf now that you have Netflix as an Avenue to just strengthen your brand yeah oh yeah well you know Joel Joel was definitely on my radar like as a as a hardcore fan but you know is is

Sort of the perfect kind of success story for a show like this where you know a personality and someone who’s just really open and I think that how do you get a successful you know episode out of a being on the Netflix show it’s

Like you just got to lean in and I think Joel more than all more than pretty much anybody else from season one like got that and actually leaned in and you know it was like the kind of thing where whenever we’d ask he’d say yes like hey

Can we we come over to your house just played you just missed the cut can we come over sure like can we have the cameras with you in this moment absolutely like he just decided that he was gonna say yes and he was gonna really lean in and like I’m

Sure Gino too yeah and and Lana like the whole crew like it it just they really all leaned in and they bought in and they kind of you know what we say to everybody is like the more you kind of like lean into it the more you’re going

To get out of it and I think Joel’s like the perfect example of that you know another another player that really I want to give credit to is Matt Fitzpatrick like who you know who has not done a ton of Media stuff before but he made the commitment on his own and

Said look if I’m going to do this I’m going to do it like I’m going to never say no and you know there’s he’s like in season one you know he is the final pairing at the PGA Championship we ride in with him in the car you know really

Frustrating day he lets it back in the car again you know same thing in season two you see him ironically at the same tournament PGA Championship this year at oakill or last year at oakill you know misses the cut again frustrated guess guess what he let us in the car and and

I you know I got to give sons of credit for to Matt and those guys and and really everybody who participated but you know those two really leaned in a lot yeah and uh as you approach season two um imagine season one when you’re trying to figure out like who were going

To be the guys uh from the tour that are going to be featured in all these episodes when season 2 is coming around and you’re approaching players you’re approaching agents was there more of a likely that you were going to be able to get guys to do it were there guys

Leaning out from their experience were there more guys that are showing up like please please pick me I want to be featured I you know I think it was a bit of both honestly like these these shows never really get easier to make because you still have to show up with the

Cameras in a intense moment and and you know film and and hope that they don’t kick you out of the room um so you know on on some sense yes like guys like wam Clark you know had had had their agents you know their agents had been reaching

Out really really honestly like for the whole history of the show saying hey windham’s going to be the guy and you know it was a great example of a player who’s you know raised their hand and and it ended up you know in season two in a

Very big way and obviously US Open Champion wam Clark and you know that that may be my favorite episode of this of the series him and Joel’s episode um so you know and and some players really like got it and leaned in you know I think Rory another example of a player

Who really understood kind of what this was and leaned back in and and you know and then others yeah they they’re like you know I had enough and so we had we had a little mix of both and I think like it’s just kind of how it goes and

You try to make the best show possible until the kind of most compelling interesting stories with the access that you have and we’ve been really lucky with the show that overall we’ve had amazing access and I think we get we we get deeper into this sport than a lot of

These other kind of similar shows do just given the fact that you know golfers and I think in general they’re good talkers you know it’s not like they’re on a team where they’ve got their coms department and they get kind of every once in a while to do a press

Conference I mean you know you played a professional golf for a long time it’s like come off the course like there’s a mic in your face you know these athletes are used to talking about their game they’re they personable they’ve been playing golf with other random people their whole life like there’s they’re

Just I think pretty like good at talking which makes it you know easier for us to to kind of tell their stories in a real authentic way and uh you know and again it it takes a lot of Buy in from them but we we’ve got it and I think we’ve

Got you know deeper hooks into this world than than you know a lot of these other shows do so I’m very proud of that yeah and I would say a lot of players are very brand conscious just not wanting to say something that’s going to get them in trouble with who their their

Sponsors and who their partners are and also there’s just the general respect of the game of golf you know it’s it’s a game where you know you you respect yourself you respect your opponents and you respect the game and it’s just to me I imagine that would be one of the

Hurdles that you may have dealt with it’s like wait maybe I shouldn’t have sent that can we go back and delete that was there any of that that’s happened along the way it’s like I regret saying that please delete it you know honestly never that’s never happened really once

Like players regretted saying something um you know I think the benefit of this show is that it doesn’t come out like the same day you know it’s we’re not we have a different relationship with the players than I think the other people in the media do because you know it’s the

Media’s job to kind of cover the cover like professional golf and to write stories and you know with us in our cameras the guys know that this isn’t going to come out for another like six months nine months you know there’s just like not that instant like it’s not

Going out on Twitter the next day they’re not worried about it distracting them the following week like we become part of the fabric of their lives and I you know our goal with the the crew and our producers who are out in the field is really just to like blend into the

Background like we want these athletes to forget the cameras are there and you know and then it’s nice I think they just get used to the fact that hey I can be vulnerable in this moment and I’m not going to see it on the internet like two

Days later you know and and and they’ve got a whole year of context to come back from a really low point and you know that’s the secret of this show is like we we want to be there for your kind of lowest point just because it gives us a

Chance to bring you back to a moment when you do kind of come back and it’s like if it’s all just flat like if you’re just like playing great all year and everything’s positive like there’s no Arc to that it’s not that’s not an interesting story so you know the to the

Credit of the players that say yes like they get that they’re willing to be vulnerable they’re willing to let us see their lowest points and that just means that we can bring them all the way back when they have a moment of like Triumph or you know overcoming adversity and you

Know and this season in particular with the Ryder Cup like just gave us this great narrative device because you know it’s one of the few things in in in like our world making the show that we actually could predict like you show up at a major we we’re falling sort of8 to

10 players you know there’s 100 something guys in the field like hopefully one of our guys wins like sometimes we’ve gotten lucky other times we haven’t but with the writer cup it’s like there’s 24 players there’s two captains one team’s going to win one team’s going to lose we knew there was

Going to be drama on both sides win or lose you know come no matter what and then the captain’s picks process like it’s the one time we actually could get cameras in a place where we knew a dramatic moment was going to happen and we could actually film it like because

We knew it was coming you know well didn’t take someone having to win a maer for us to get a big payoff and uh and so you know we love we love the U the Buy in from the both sides of the rider Co teams and particularly the captains who

Who kind of gave us an unprecedented look into that process and I and I think it pays off if you if you’re watching this podcast and you haven’t watched the show yet um you know stick through the whole the whole thing because the riter cut payoff is just it’s electric he’s

Right he’s right guys you’re going to want to stick around for the for the end the last three episodes are featured basically the entire process of the ryer cup and it split into a part one and a part two for the Ryder Cup and it’s and

It’s it really is so fantastic uh to watch I was like so nervous watching some of it uh even though I knew the results I knew who got picked on the team but still man it just um it’s crazy we’re going to get into some of this

Ridder cup talk here at the End chat and um I just want to kind of go back to really just the beginning of full swing two and um or season two I should say you know if you had to describe this season whether it be a word or just uh a

Sentence you know just summing it all up for you how would you uh describe season two I I think this season is a lot more narrative in the sense that you know there are two two-part episodes like season one was very you know we had an

Episode here we had an episode here we had an episode here um you know is not necessarily in chronological order um but season two is it throws you right into the SE right into the action and pulls you across an entire like season long narrative and I think that was

Always something that we wanted to be able to do is to be able to establish kind of a base of characters like our kind of Cinematic Universe so to speak of like these players and to be able to like bring audiences back to them in different moments throughout the year

And really start to feel like yeah you’re just like propelled along this journey that they on the ride that these players were on and their families were on and I think like to me the word that best describes that as kind of narrative like I think you can look at the

Entirety of season two and it feels like one big consistent narrative Arc and and you can see the character development like really evolve over the course of the season and you know episode one really around Rory maroy and and you know his his struggles at the beginning

Of the year and and then ultimately his you know the sort of betrayal that he felt uh on June 6th when the P you know PGA Tour framework agreement was announced and and you get to see kind of his his like coming to terms with that

Over the course of an entire season and then kind of culminating in him in the Ryder Cup like forgetting all the money and all the arguments and just like playing for country and for his teammates and like you know and it’s obviously the show is not just about

Rory but but I think like that’s a great example of a of a season long Arc that like you you just just we didn’t have in season one you know and and the writer cup gave us that like reason to to build a universe and have it like pay off or

Not pay off for for these characters and and just be really high stakes for everybody and correct me if I’m wrong Chad but in in season one Rory just agreed to come on very late in in the process like the most of the filming was almost done and y’all and and you’re

Like all right Rory if your if your schedule uh permits I mean you got one last shot to get your say in all this yeah well that was I mean it was even crazier than that like we didn’t have an ending to the show and we showed up at

The Tour Championship and you know this was like a few weeks after the Delaware meeting and you know they did the it was like Tiger and Rory and all that whole crew that got together about like yeah how do we deal with the live Challenge

And and so Rory was like emerging as a loud voice in that kind of conversation and we we knew we wanted to get him but you know he was he had not committed to season one and um you know I think I’ve told the story before but like I flew to

Atlanta a Sunday night before the Tour Championship and just like went to East Lake at 7:30 in the morning and just waited around until I saw Rory like and just kind of hoped and prayed that I would get a moment where he was going to be alone and I could just like actually

Give him the pitch directly and just say like dude and that’s what happened like I’m walking around the clubhouse upstairs at East Lake is you know it’s where the locker room is there’s sort of a player dining area and and I’m just like wandering the Halls back and forth

Like essentially pacing there’s no one there it’s like hii matama had been on the range for like three hours already that was it I anybody else and and and of course I walk past this little alcob and look in the wind you know look in and there’s Rory like sitting there

Eating some breakfast like alone completely alone in a room and I’m like okay you just like beamed in you’re like you can’t get a better opportunity than this and I’d like to think that I just like marched right up to him and said you’re going to be in this show isn’t be

A you know but no I like completely panicked and like went into the locker room looked in the mirror like psyched myself up and said like the ending of is hinging on this like 10minute conversation like you gotta nail it and and you know to Roy’s credit I walked in

I sat down and and said listen I think you know I think you you you need to be a part of this if if you don’t do it then no one’s going to hear from you until 2024 you know where we are right now in season two because he you know

His team had said he would he’d be interested in doing a season two and you know I thought this was going to be some long drawn out like conversation and he immediately was like I’m in I’m in send send over the agreement like I’m down I’m down let’s go and and like two

Hours later he was miked up in the locker room and then obviously went on to win the championship and the pedex cup and it was just yeah it was a dream but yeah that all that Roy stuff was was kind of like you the show was mostly

Done and you know we’re able to like kind of I think stick The Landing so well we talk about all the time on this show just there’s like a form formula to winning professional golf tournaments and there’s some of it’s like you know being in the right place at the right

Time on the back nine some and you know got to have the opportunity you need a little luck and I think like just going back to the beginning of of season one and just where the golf world was it was in couldn’t have been in a crazier place

And then this year the J or excuse me the uh the June 6th agreement comes out that they’re merging it’s like dude you can’t ride up better scripts and what you guys have had along with I mean some of the guys that y’all have featured in

In your shows have gone on to win big events and major championships and events I mean you could have picked guys that had terrible all of them could have had terrible years and you’re like okay these are tough stories to tell but y’all had a little luck along the

Way I mean that’s such an understatement the amount of we had I mean look anything like this is is just you can do everything you can to like get really good access you can get all the agreements signed you can get commitments you can get the cameras in

The room but you still got to have you know you got to be lucky you gota the timing is everything it’s like you know people say about real estates like location location location with a show like this where it’s not scripted like it’s just timing timing timing and you

Know with there was a moment in time since the you know the deal with the tour got done in 2019 like we could have made this show and started filming in 2020 and we would have been stuck in the covid year and like the bubble

No no juice no juice and so like you know because of covid it actually pushed us back you know we couldn’t start that season so it pushed us back into you know 22 and it just like the year that we had with the live defections last

Year I you know frankly I thought coming into season two we were going to be able to put that story down for a minute you know so much of season one was about guys leaving are they going to leave you know are they going and the sort of

Controversy of what Liv meant and and what was the future of the pj2 and so I kind of thought all right well this season we can take a break from that and like focus on the writer cup and and no sure enough June 6 happens I

Mean I was I was out here in La it was like seven in the morning and I got a phone call like from Netflix saying like did you see the news like live in the pj2 emerging and I was like that’s not true like they the website must have been hacked

Um and you know and to have something like that happen this year where it flips this narrative back onto the PGA tour players it wasn’t so much about like the live guys anymore and and you know were they doing it for the money or

For you know why is golf just a job for them or is it about like Legacy you know we really explored that theme a lot in season one you know season two kind of it puts the puts it right back on the guys that stayed and and all of a sudden

There was this really kind of transformative dramatic moment where they all started looking around being like wait a minute like what does this mean for us and and you know there was a real sense of betrayal and a real sense of surprise and how secret it was and

You get to see the Fallout of that in the show in a real way and and I do have a funny story about that moment so you know I was out here in La film it you know like we we actually were very fortunate that that week because it was

US Open kind of that Monday so that happened on a Tuesday it was June uh June 6th so June 5th was like the final kind of regional or sectional qualifiers for the US Open so we had a bunch of cameras out following those stories so

And then we had a knowing that it was a down week for some of our players we actually had Camas like at home with players that day um and and it was amazing that we were able to capture like real-time reaction from everybody kind of in the moment like knowing what

Was you know not knowing that it was going to happen but kind of seeing it in real time and and the funny story is U we had a producer on our team a younger producer who was essentially an associate producer who all year had been

Saying like hey I want I want to produce a shoot like I’m I’m ready like give me a little crew you know put me in like I want a little Battlefield promotion and and we agreed for that week that we’re like okay we’re gon to like give you a

Little opportunity to like prove yourself as a producer so we sent him up to Canada to the RBC Canadian open with a small crew and and we’re like okay this is a total what could happen in Canada right like what could happen in Canada this is a total layup like low

Stake shoot you’re gonna follow l viig oberg in his like qualifier for the US Open and then you’re gonna go with him day you know Tuesday to sign up like for his first event as a PGA Tour member and so you know we’re like whether we use it

Or not I don’t know but you know it’s a cool story this guy’s obviously a buing superstar you know we’d been sort of following him and we actually thought you know darkh maybe Ridder cup candidate so we thought okay let’s just ride in with him have him sign up to be

On the PGA Tour all the kind of logistics you have to do on your first day as a PGA Tour member and then go out and fall and practicing a little bit and it was just like totally low stakes and of course like I look at my the phone

And I’m like holy crap like pdv in Canada with his crew it’s he calls me and he’s like what do I do and I’m like just don’t stop filming like just record it just record everything and so talk about being in the right place at the right time you know that’s

The ultimate kind of Battlefield promotion I mean that kid went from you know Soldier to General like really quick and uh he killed it nailed awesome man that I can’t imagine that that’s like going from you know being a a senior in college and they throw you

Out in a major championship that’s like probably the producer uh change probably from uh from what he just experience there and at the beginning of uh before you kind of told this story you mentioned uh how you touched on uh some of the Liv stuff last year and actually

I remember I think you guys went to the opening event uh that they had I think it was in England if I recall and I’ll say this year the one surprise I had from the season was that there wasn’t as much featured um of the Liv golf

Tournaments I thought there would be a little bit more of the players on the Liv golf off to a little bit more of maybe the trash talk that we’ve kind of seen on Twitter from a lot of the live golf players was was there was there

Just I guess I’m trying to come up with a question here trying to figure out with the live golf in the PGA Tour was it sensitive to like spend too much time over there at the live golf or was that just a decision not to go to as many of

Their events I mean I think for the reality is like the show is really built around obviously the PGA Tour but also kind of the majors and the writer cup so our Focus really was telling the story of like these players at the majors and for me it was really fascinating yeah it

Was it was fascinating to be at the Masters where we knew that was going to be a big moment when like all of these guys were back together for the first time and and it was really kind of like it was striking on the Wednesday sort of

Part three contest to see like DJ and Brooks you know walking out with like John and Rory and JT and Jordan and everybody’s just kind of like getting ready to tea off with their kids and it was just like oh right like this is normal again you know this is like what

It’s supposed to feel like you know and and I think that you know you see it in the show but it kind of shocked the world when Rory said he was going to play practice round with Brooks and and obviously we know how that tournament unfolded and then the PGA Championship

You know sort of Brooks getting his fifth major and uh you know I think we we we definitely wanted to make sure we included you know those live guys and their storyline is a huge part of of professional golf and you know you see some of like Brooks’s lead in obviously

Playing well going into the Masters and then you know going on to win um and then DJ you know like got to have DJ in this thing and uh and it was fun to kind of spend more time with DUS he’s unreal man I mean so mucher dude it’s just like

What a cool person yeah totally he’s just I wish I wish I was DJ I mean just goly yeah yeah exactly so um yeah I just uh you know you kind of just mentioned Brooks and what his uh kind of career uh just storyline looked like winning his

Fifth major and I think that was one of the things that surprised me because the first uh episode is a Rory feature and I was kind of toen back a little bit just about how much Rory pays attention just to kind of the other players in his

Generation and Brooks being one of those players I think I think that’s one storyline that’s that that is going to be one that people don’t really expect yeah yeah I mean I think you know he’s watching he’s paying attention and you feel it you know these guys aren’t

You know they’re not robots like they want to win and and you know they want to win big and they they don’t like to see people pass them by and you know I think you you feel it in a really real way and when we start you know we start

We ended season one with Rory like literally on top of the world you know he had won the FedEx Cup um you know sort of whatever is kind of heroic ending for Rory and then we start the season he’s number one in the world and

You know and it quickly kind of goes off the rails on the golf course for him at at at the majors and you know you can like really feel the frustration and I think like all that stuff’s like is really authentic I mean again you know these guys want to win it’s so

Frustrating when you only get sort of four majors a year like you know you’re like you have limited kind of chances to get it done and and the frustration obviously for him at the Masters missing the cut and then you know not quite having like the gear that he felt like

He needed at at oakill to get it done PGA and then watching you know a player at Brooks who now has every claim to say that you know maybe Brooks is the generational player of this era you know and and like that’s that’s just great on

I mean you can tell it like it’s I mean Roy says it tot pays attention totally totally and and I think the chef the chef’s kiss episode it’s like when you when you make a perfect thing in the oven it comes out and you just you’re

Like that was that was money for me it was it was the episode with with Windham and Joel Damon and the reason why I say this and you kind of mentioned it a little bit before but I think they’re both two players that are in the same

Frame of mind in one form of another that one leans in to getting help and one is leaning out and you could see one player Ascend and one player descend and I think that storyline between those two players is it’s it’s really perfect well thank you thank you I mean

That episode you know that’s one of the that was one of the early episodes that we finished because it just the storyline you can’t again you can’t write it like and and that was one that we didn’t really go into the season thinking like Windam Clark and Joel

Damon would like share an episode together but you know we we spent so much time with Joel and and interestingly like the parallels between their lives are are so fascinating and you know and as we got to know Windam early in the year we’re like wow like

This guy it’s a lot like Joel you know they’re both not really from golf like towns you know um there’s like a West or Pacific Northwest you know I think you know Windham lives in like Colorado and and Joel obviously from the Washington State and they both like lost their mom

At a really young age or at a really pivotal age I guess and you know it’s interesting to see like Joel’s what he took away from that was and he says it in the show it’s kind of like I can’t take life too serious because you know

It can kind of end at any moment and you know and then wendam in his own way had like the opposite takeaway from that which is like I’m going to kind of sacrifice everything I’m going to sacrifice having a normal life to live up to memory yeah and like and because

Of her really like she wanted me to win big and I’m gonna live up to that that was sort of my promise to myself in honor of her memory and you know and Windom sort of s made a ton of sacrifices and and sought out help and

Got mental health coaching and and you know pays off for him in like the biggest possible way he’s a major Champion now and then you see Joel you know really struggle with that and and his and not just Joel but his the family around him you know Gino and and Joel’s

Wife and and Gino’s wife and and just how much they are trying to like reach out to him to get him help and it was a it’s a fascinating story that we never expected to come together so kind of perfectly and it’s it’s again the kind

Of thing you can’t you can’t write so I couldn’t be more like proud of that episode I mean the team it’s really good really good and and the runner up for me was I I think Ricky’s episode was was fantastic as well and you know I I think

The reason why I like these two episodes so much is the endings of the episodes are so good the ending and and I think it’s the music choice that it’s just like that little strum of music that just like pulls at your heart and it it

Just it just rips me apart when I when you when you cue the music up you know the episode’s almost over and then you see everybody getting like teary and cry and I’m like man how am I supposed to keep it together right now this music’s so good like this story just that’s

Being told you’re killing me with the music man you got to like you got to let it just play out in silence because I’m just over here crying away you know we we like that’s the beauty of uh of having you know sort of 20 weeks of

Editing is you can really just grab your heartstrings man we can you know we get sight Sound and Motion that’s the beauty of Cinema and uh and and you know it is it allows you to relive a moment where if you’re a hardcore fan like you know

What happens but but in the moment in the show like you know you kind of that all falls away and and you know we we try to bring you into it in a new way at least and have you see it in a different way and yeah we throw some dramatic

Music under there you know insir get you a little bit we might get you a little bit um you know but but like the the you know Rick is a great example I know you brought up his episode you know this is like you know a it’s a real story so

Ricky was the first player to say yes to full swing like Ricky said yes in 2019 and and you know was was very very committed to this very early on and you know and like gave us a ton of access in season one like and didn’t

Have a payoff and you know you know all these players like it’s never easy but we had to go to like his team and say like so sorry I know you were the first player to say yes I know you give us a ton of time all year like you’re not

Going to be in the show for season one and you know like to tell a superstar like Ricky Fowler that he’s not making in the show I mean obviously he took it fine but it’s a hard conversation to have and the and what we said was like

We see it like you’re coming back like we see the game you know turning like if you have patience with us and you kind of give us the chance to kind of finish your story like we had like 80% of it done but we’re like we don’t have an

Ending so let us like just stick with us and when you do have that payoff it’s going to be like two years of emotion kind of building up and then being released all at once and and that’s what happened so you know credit to Ricky like he he trusted us you know didn’t

Wasn’t really in season one in really any meaningful way and and gets like you know the most compelling sort of powerful Arc that pays off over kind of a whole two-year period and and when that put goes in in Detroit you know like as a viewer you feel the same

Emotion that he feel it’s not even like celebration it’s just like relief like ah yeah fine finally I I think it’s because I first off I know Ricky well and I think I just related so much to what he was going through during those couple years and I

Think seeing just the the access that you guys had and see him like kind of start to open up and become out of the shell that he was in because I relate to that so much during when I was uh playing poorly on tour and just not

Being able to open up and I I just when I saw Ricky during that time period I just saw so much of myself and I think that’s why that episode when he finally made the putt to win and just the success he had at the US Open I’m like

Like my wife’s crying behind me I’m tearing up and then you know we also have a daughter she’s a little Maya is a little older than Anna Carter but still it just all of it was so relatable to me in that episode as well was just a an

Absolute winner well thank you and and you know honestly like Allison you know Ricky’s wife like just she gave us so much just access truth and authenticity and like you know you can’t make a story like that pay off without somebody like Alison you know like CU you Ricky

Obviously he can try to bring you into his head as much as he can but you know having someone else who cares so much about the player but has really no control over like the outcomes you know you you feel it even more because you feel like what they went through

Together you know and and they’re both incredible athletes on their own right and you know and it’s just having it pay off for both of them like you feel the emotional reaction so much more just because you’ve now gotten to know her as well and you’ve kind of been on the

Journey with them as a couple and as a a family and just to have that kind of all pay off for them together it just means so much and um you know and that’s like the magic of of a show like this where you have the time and the space and the

Context to be able to really get to know somebody and to spend time in their world and and you know when it pays off it pays off big absolutely and you know we just talked about Ricky but also Justin has his own kind of featured episode and

Jordan’s um you know kind of in in the episodes pretty much all of them like throughout um but not not quite as much of a feature and so I got to ask you this when’s the spring break uh 2K whatever Netflix episode is that going

To be in season three or is that in season four are we do we have a chance to show that we can do this thing on Netflix or what Chad when are you guys going I mean I’ll get the cameras there like you you’re like dude at any time

Like just what us bringing the cameras every single time last season when we were filming and I see on social media that like all you guys are at some cool place having fun I sent a lot of angry text messages to agents being like why are we not

There so yes it is time Smiley you make that happen and we’ll have the cameras there in two seconds you know I ain’t making that call that ain’t my call to make I’m I’m just the guy I’m like the I’m the guy at the end of the bench you

Know it’s the uh it’s the other three they got to the sign off I’m you know my signature is always right there don’t sell yourself short brother I think you got a lot more power than just got tell they’re here for me you know they’re not even here for you

They’re here for me like you know this is we’re making the Smiley Show on Netflix now so you guys you know they’re here for me don’t worry that’s what we got bang bang oh gosh man that would be a fun one I know uh We’ve we basically

Were we were golf influencers in 2016 before golf influencers were really a thing you know and and and you and I have had this conversation uh before this that golf you know since 2016 when you know we kind of like like oh wait golf we there’s some young guys and we

Kind of made golf cool but I say that we made golf cool we just actually just filmed everything we did and we just posted and people liked it but golf now in 2024 it’s cool everybody’s doing it and it wasn’t always been that case and that’s probably why this this full

Season’s been so successful is that you have a huge crop of people that are just drawn to this game yeah I think like I think you know um golf was already trending in 2016 and and you know obviously the the young crop of players on the PGA tour that were more socially

Like you know they they post you guys being the perfect example of that but also guys like Max who really are open on social media like you know this generation of young player like they grew up with social media so it wasn’t kind of the era of like Phil and tiger

And and you know sort of there’s not a lot of like stuff coming from from them directly uh you know I think you see the impact of that and the growth of the game as like really accelerating in Co because it was like one of the only

Things that people could do outside and everyone’s working from home and they’re like doing conference calls from the golf course you know like guilty as shards by the way like I was there too uh and and I think that like that gave a you know that that like really kind of I

Think created this wave and you know the thing that’s real and what I love about golf in general is like golf is super healthy like golf probably never been healthier and it’s and it’s gotten younger and it’s gotten cooler and more women are playing and it’s more diverse

And there’s just like way more touch points and access points for the game than there really has ever been in its entire history and I and I kind of think it’s like maybe golf had a cultural Moment Like This in like the 60s like that was you know in the rap Pack era

And Jack and Arie like that early kind of cool golf was like influenced that might have been the moment but but certainly like it’s not been anything like that since then and and also that it’s not center around one player like tiger you know it’s golf is broader than

That and and even though progolf as you well know is is still in kind of a moment of flux and a moment of chaos and and a lot of the back and forth around the pro game I think is you know has a real risk of like turning fans off um

You know golf as a whole has never been healthier and I think what we hope to do with full swing season 2 and if you’ve you know watched the show yet listening to this podcast or you’re about to watch it like it is about it’s like four fans

You know and it’s whether it’s your fans of full swing and you’re not necessarily a golf fan and this brings you into the world or you’re a hardcore golf fan like there’s something in this show for you and I think it’s a chance to like to just make something that’s awesome in

Golf and and you know you may not think it’s awesome you know feel free to be haters I’m fine with that but like you know to get to see inside a world like this to live alongside these athletes and kind of the highs and lows you know

It’s it’s just a nice thing that doesn’t involve like having to have a fight about who’s getting paid what and I think golf is Right golf is doing great and I think like you know if this show can help point the way to to you know these characters are awesome individuals

And and they’re doing incredible stuff I think it’s it’s awesome and in this season two how much more footage did y’all capture compared to season one that y’all just had to totally dump it was like 750 hours in season 1 it was 900 hours in season 2 so

We you know was another 150 is that how the math works yeah another 150 hours of footage that we shot on our like movie cameras um we bring in like another 10,000 hours of archive and we have a system that sits on on a camera truck that allows us to capture every single

Camera like at every tournament basically including all the mics on the te’s and and and we can capture in real time because those are all getting fed in even if they’re not getting you know used how get those hot mics that’s right we’ve got a we’ve got an operator

Sitting in New York who’s literally just like okay um you know Ricky F’s teeing off and second Eeps on that First Tee we start recording those mics and all the cameras on that hole and then as he moves along the court we’re lighting up that stuff like as he’s playing his

Whole 18 holes and we do that for like every time teas it up and so that’s you know that’s 10,000 hours of stuff right there but that like allows us to show the golf in a way that like doesn’t look like what you see on TV we can sort of

Relive those moments from other angles and and with the real hot mics and we don’t have to put mics on players to whether trying to swing and win a major or something like that um but yeah you you end up pulling all that stuff in and

A lot of it gets left on The Cutting Room floor but but by the same token it’s like we want to make eight really great episodes and you know and like I said with Rick Ricky in season one like you know you need a payoff like you have

To have an arc you know you can’t like the the kiss of death for a for an episode is just like stasis you know you it’s really hard to tell a story that is flat like where they’re just playing okay all year and it’s not anything great it’s not really terrible it’s just

Like flat and that’s a really hard story to tell you need extreme highs and extreme lows or extreme only extreme lows or only extreme High you need you need like variability to be able to land a story and you know I think about like the Tom Kim episode is like a really interesting

Kind of example of a of a of a story that really could have been that flat story like Tom’s a really great personality you know we started filming with him early in the season there’s so so many Hilarious Moments Like Him showing up at Augusta for the first time

And parking in the wrong spot and like not being able to find out where the like try you know he’s trying to get the sandwich and like ended up Champions locker room on accident like it’s just it was all like just what respect for being 20 years old like showing up at

The Masters for the first time and and being overwhelmed by all of it Tom’s a great was a great character but you know as the season progressed it’s like okay he’s playing well but like you can’t make a show about him like being in the mud at the PGA Championship you know you

Needed some moment where he actually had to prove it and and like rise up against some adversity and you know going into the Open Championship we we weren’t sure if the Tom episode was going to make it you know and we’re like we got Great Moments there’s a lot of really funny

Moments but this show isn’t about moments it’s about stories and it’s about scenes and it’s how these things build up and sure enough like you know on on the after the first round he injures his ankle rolls his ankle you know a lot of players in that scario I

Mean he had like serious tear in his ankle and you watch him swing I me he was swinging on one leg basically and and the weather was crap and like you know most players in that case would would give up or they would withdraw and

Like Tom like gutted it out and ended up getting you know coming in second like people you know we’re watching this all on full we’re like oh my God like there’s our ending because you know he everything you know he’s obviously a prodigy and he’s you know he’s

Multi-time winner on the PGA tour he’s he turned 21 like while we were filming the show last year you know people forget how young he is you know you look at a guy like L over I think L’s like 24 you know and even like Dunlap is I think

23 so um you know Tom’s was 20 and he’d already won twice on tour um and you know and so for us to get a moment where he really it was it was a challenge he had to rise up and he had to you know his his prodig and his Superstar like

Didn’t matter it was like you got to like gr it out and and that was the payoff of that episode and then of course he goes on and wins in in Vegas again uh you know just because he’s Tom Kim and he gets he gets it done uh but

But yeah that’s a great example of a show you know of what you need to make an episode actually land I’m taking mental notes right now for when if I ever make a comeback in the game Chad it’s like all right I can’t just come back I actually have to

Play well and and like really and Captivate an audience like I can’t just go and make the cut I really I need to finish top five and so I’m thinking in my head it’s like you know what yeah maybe I’m maybe I’m not a feature guy

You know I don’t I don’t know I think you gotta come out you gotta miss a bunch of cuts but then you gota you know you gotta qualify yourself for the US Open and you gotta win the damn thing I gota win okay I gotta win the

Thing man all right let’s finish on a little Ridder cup off and and that’ll be kind of how we close out this interview because I think all this stuff’s been fantastic and uh thank you for your time through this and and as we as we kind of

Just finished with this Ridder cup were you surprised at the level of access that you got for that just from you know being in players homes when they got the calls and just how intense these moments were yeah I mean that was a that was a

[ __ ] ton of work like to get that access over a period of like a year and a half and you know as we started filming season 1 you know and it was going well you know we started conversations with the PG of America and with writer cup

Europe about the writer cup and you know they they at first like really wanted it to be its own thing you know and I and I think like they rightly so the writer cups like is so special and and it took a lot of consensus building and Trust

Building to like not only have them willing to like let us film it at all but actually have it be part of full swing and not its own show or its own thing and and one of the promises that we made to this was really more of a

Concern from rder cup Europe but like so many of the casts from season one were Americans and so their big concern was like you know they’re coming off this dominant performance and Whistling Straits like a lot of your cast are Americans like how does this not end up

Becoming like the USA story you know and we wanted them and so the promise to the Ryder Cup both sides was like we’re gonna we’re gonna do it equally like we’re gonna we’re gonna every time we go and film with somebody you know us Captain was Z we’re going to do a shoot

With Luke and as long as you lean in like and you give the access we’ll we’ll do everything we can to make it as like fair and equal a portrayal as possible in terms of like the amount of screen time and how we kind of tell the story

And you know and Luke was amazing like Luke by the way Luke Donal was my favorite player growing up like obviously I’m a tiger guy but like I was you know I was 14 years old when tiger went nuts in 2000 and like you know and

I could not relate to that golf like I was a Die Hard Junior golfer you know played pretty competitively not not not as well as you did at that age but like you know was into it Tiger golf is like not relatable Luke Donald golf I was

Like that’s my guy so I love this swing I’m I’m still a visor guy actually just because of Luke gal I I still wear visors when I play golf um so he was my favorite player I had Muno irons like I’m obsessed with luk oh you you were

Definitely a Luke guy then Muno irons and the visor that that’s like chef’s kiss could you pot and Chip too uh yeah it was my short game was way better than my long game I wasn’t obviously not a great iron player but actually if you watch my golf swing it actually like I

Have the same finish I copied I try to copy Luke Donald and everything um so the one moment I’ve ever had in this show to be honest like where I was a little bit Star Struck was like going to Luke Donald’s house to like talk him not

Talk him into but meet him and talk about like hey you become the captain you know you weren’t even really the First Choice it was Henrik like you we want to see it from your perspective and and you know you’re going to be underdogs and and so going into his

House and sitting down and having him walk out I was like oh my God it’s Luke Donald and I asked for his autograph it’s the only autograph I’ve ever asked for and he thought I was joking and then he went and got me a hat I it

So I have my office somewhere it’s like I don’t know where it is it’s around here somewhere but um but anyway so you know love Luke and and then love Zach too like they they both really understood what it was going to be and and they gave us a ton of access all

Year like all year long anytime we asked the captain said yes and and the show wouldn’t have worked if it wasn’t for that and you know getting our cameras like I said earlier in this podcast like the Ryder Cup is the one time in this show where we’ve ever been able to plan

Like because we knew like that again we knew one team was going to win and one team was going to lose which means like that’s great you get heartbreak and and celebration for everybody and like there’s no person who’s just kind of like I did all right you know I finished

Tied 11th you know it’s just like you win or you lose so we knew that was going to be great and the payoff at in Rome was going to be Electric having been to a riter cup before I was like it’s going to be insane like seeing

That with our cameras inside the ropes just the the the booing and the jeer in the songs and we were like it’s G to be it’s GNA be great so we knew once we got to Rome it was going to be great but we had to tell the story of like getting to

Rome and the captain’s pcks were a thing that we knew like we were in the we knew what the captain picks were before anyone else in the world like we were sitting in the room with Zach and his assistant captains when they made the choice and I get a text on that morning

Here’s the pick like the six picks are these guys and we had to get cameras out to like those locations Zach was going to make all the phone calls it took like 25 minutes total and we had to have we had three different crews in three different time zones like bouncing

Around different houses I mean we we had a crew like camped out outside of JT’s place in Nashville he had said he wasn’t going to let us film it we were like get there anyway so we flew a crew literally like that night got her there like first

Thing in the morning like trying to find his house and just like waiting in his culde saac like hoping that we can like see him through the window and I was going to apologize later you know and he went out and like walked with Jill

Because he was too nervous I mean he he legitimately did not think he had a chance and and then we had another crew in in um in Jupiter that had to get from Keegan’s house to Ricky’s house and they live like a couple miles away and that

Call was like there was 10 minutes in between so you know talk of credit to both of those guys they said we’ll let you film it like yes or no like if we if I’m the pick great if not great we want the cameras there and the thing that was

Most crushing with Keegan was you know we knew that it was a no we had cameras coming he knew that we were supposed to be there but we hadn’t like told him that we were there yet and the the there was we do these call sheets you know for

Our producers and there was a typo in the call sheet so they had the wrong address for Keegan’s house so the producer was like not there and the call was going out in like 10 minutes and I had to call Keegan and say hey buddy like I think we got the wrong address

Address can you confirm this is your address and we’re coming in with the cameras and because I called him he thought that that meant it was a yes because he like thought that coming they only gonna be there for the yes so he opens the door big smile on his face

Like let’s see what this is all about and then like literally a minute after our producer got there he gets the phone call and you know we play it out in real time and and the worst part about that was you know it is a crushing moment you

Know and and the first I mean I started I did the first interview with Keegan in January last season and the first thing he said of his mouth is the only thing that matters is me making this rder Cup team like he had W in Japan kind of in

The in the fall he’s trending up like all I want is to make the um the Ridder Cup team and so just like all of that building to that moment and have his heart broken that way was was brutal and have the cameras there to capture it I

Give him so much credit for letting us of live there the worst part was as soon as that shot Cuts Like That producer had to leave and get to Ricky’s house in like 10 minutes even stick around and like give him a hug it was just kind of

Like thanks man bye like out the door on the road like trying to get to Ricky’s house and we’re on the phone with the producer we’re like are you there he’s like I’m two minutes out you know it’s like Zach’s gonna make the call get there you know and Allison opens the

Door like he runs through the house goes to where Ricky was sitting on the back gets the camera set right as the phone call comes in and you know those were like real moment that was like real time their real reaction you know and as as

You see in the show like JT like you know ran away from us cuz was afraid that it was going to be a no and uh and and we’re like crushed because we had a camera there we’re like oh like it was a yes and we didn’t get any footage of it

And uh and then like three hours later like JT texted me and he sent me that video that Jill had taken and he was like I hope this works and I asked you know he’ asked her to film it and it works it actually works better because

It’s just it just shows shows how like he did not think it was going to go his way and he was terrified and oh you would have never known that I I didn’t know that wasn’t y’all’s camera um yeah film film adjusting that that’s actually kind of cooler too yeah yeah yeah

They’re out on a walk he gets phone call That’s Her filming on her iPhone and uh every single second of that clip we used and uh and then you know like eight hours lat he sends me a text and he has a huge bass went F so you know not too

Bad man this just gets me excited for the Ryder Cup in New York it’s GNA be absolutely insane and watching Keegan Bradley kind of get the rejection and then watch and cheer his team on when at home with his family I think like in my mind

I’m like okay this guy if he doesn’t make the team in New York like how could you not want this guy as like a whether it be a Vice Captain or a captain I I just thought I haven’t really thought about Keegan as a as a captain but in

That moment watching I’m thinking this guy like lives and breathes the Ridder cup loves all these guys he loves USA and um and has relationships with all these players and they’re looking for a captain I I think Keegan should be a guy they consider I mean you will not find a

Bigger Keegan Bradley fan than me after this show you know and just the experience we have with him and just how mature a professional he was in the moment of real heartbreak and that you know in that scene like we went back to his house on Saturday and filmed him

Watching the the r or Sunday or whatever it was and filmed him watching and he’s wearing his rder cup hat you know he’s sitting there with his kids like cheering on it’s like none of that stuff’s like we didn’t ask him to do it he’s just like

He loves it so much and he cares and you just like he just can’t not root for him you know like how do you not fall in love with Keegan who you know and and you know Keegan and I are the same age which is which is like interesting to me

Personally we have kids that are basically the same age you know like and and you know I I feel like I’m lucky enough that I’m at kind of like the you know the the prime of my career um but as a pro golfer as an athlete like you

Know you started at your late 30s like you’re you know you’re starting to look at like what’s next and you know just the fact that for him the pressure was just not just to make the team but to know that maybe this is his last real

Shot is is just it’s like you can’t you can’t script that kind of real emotion and you know and props to him for like being willing you know win or lose good or bad to like let us film it and you know just you feel it like you can’t

Again you can’t think a moment like that and um and I think that moment of his sort of projection call is like one of the most visceral like Sports moments that I’ve ever got to see like up close and personal and be a part of and it’s

It’s just so cool that he let us do that yeah yeah well I mean I I I hope he’s playing uh whether it be the President’s Cup in Montreal or the Ryder Cup in uh New York but yeah Big Keegan fan always been a fan he’s been a mentor of me as

Well so um and I think it’s a great close man I think we kind of covered it all we um I’m sure there’s plenty more that we could have talked about but at this point the episode’s going to be out when people are listening and watching this episode so I’m sure they’re they’re

Pretty excited to go watch as well and I got to head out as well because I got 30 minutes left of this entire season I watched binge all last night watched all this morning and I have 30 minutes left and I’m dying to watch so Chad I think

That’s just like a farewell it’s like I gotta go and watch this thing all right brother well you enjoy it and thanks again for having me on uh it was always great to join you yeah let’s get together on the link sometimes as well I know you’re uh a southern boy so you

Have to come over here to my home track here at sh Creek and vavia we’ll have you out let’s go baby I’ve actually watched a couple of episodes of of of y’all earlier and uh you guys have some good takes so thanks for uh thanks for

What you guys do it’s cool to see what you guys are doing and uh I I know golf fans appreciate it but we we do too so please keep it up I think you’re doing a tremendous job and and you know I listen to this podcast it’s really cool and