Lions free agent fits, draft needs & more from 2024 NFL Combine | Twentyman in the Huddle Ep. 80

On this episode of Twentyman in the Huddle presented by Microsoft, Tim Twentyman kicks off the offseason at the 2024 NFL Scouting Combine in Indianapolis, Indiana. To start, Tim sits down with ESPN NFL Analyst Field Yates to discuss the latest in news across the league, including a proposal to move the trade deadline back and the salary cap jump, what an Amon-Ra St. Brown extension could look like and what to watch for in on-field Combine drills. Next, NFL Media’s Lance Zierlein stops by to discuss the depths of the 2024 draft class and which positions the Lions could target throughout draft weekend in Detroit. After that, Ben Solak of The Ringer chats with Tim about how the Lions can sustain success, the importance of coaching continuity and how the Lions can extend Jared Goff. To wrap things up, ESPN Draft Analyst Matt Miller provides insight on this year’s offensive line class and how the Lions could target that position in April’s NFL Draft. Stay tuned for more offseason coverage as the Lions build off a successful 2023.

Highlights include:
0:00-0:25 – Podcast introduction
0:25-17:16 – Field Yates on NFL rule changes, Dan Campbell & more
17:17-28:02 – Lance Zierlein on his scouting process, wide receivers & more
28:03-40:20 – Ben Solak on a Jared Goff extension, being aggressive in free agency & more
40:21-49:01 – Matt Miller on the offensive line draft class, fits for Lions at cornerback & more

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Momes back throws it is incomplete picked off picked off by the Lions Brian Branch with it left side he’s going baby he’s going to the house touchdown to tro Lions deflected in the air branch ran under it and he took it all the way back welcome back to the 20min the

Huddle podcast presented by Microsoft and I have field Yates from ESPN thanks for stopping by field you are always a favorite of mine to talk to in the offseason you kind of have your pulse on everything which I love which probably makes you a little bit busy but the

Pulse of the NFL so so let’s talk about a couple NFL kind of centric topics to begin the kickoff rule kind of has been talked about the NFL wants to see more kickoffs what’s your your thought on on maybe some potential changes coming to the kickoff R I’m a little old school

And I want to see more kickoffs as well I mean listen I don’t think I need to preach when uh I’m talking to a team that just made I think Jaylen Reed maybe the highest paid core special teamer ever right like lions fans understand that it’s a three-phase football game

Still um so I think the kickoff is good for the NFL I think it adds an element of unpredictability I think it adds an element of variance and I have seen a lot of massive massive playoff swinging games decided by by by the kickoff so um

You know I think back to like whether it’s Devon Hester returning the opening kickoff for a touchdown in the Super Bowl or just you know Troy Brown play in particular though those are such huge plays a block punt a key return flipping the field late in the four qu% it’s it’s

Play that’s I couldn’t agree more and uh you know there’s a huge chunk of the roster I mean usually the special teams coach does not deal with at maximum two position groups the quarterbacks because other than maybe the backup holding on field goals and Pats not going to be

Involving special teams and then occasionally the wide receivers although there are some wide receivers that have merged as some of the best special teamers in the entire NFL so the lion special teams coordinator might know more players on an individual level than any other coach maybe other than Dan

Campbell on the team so I’m a little bit of a softy for uh for good special teams action one other thing kind of being talked about League wide the trade deadline has become a topic they want to move it back a couple weeks totally agree why think uh it just it introduces

So here’s one of the realities of the NFL is that the trade volume has kicked up right a couple years ago we saw a very very busy trade deadline this past year wasn’t quite as busy um but the further into the season you are the more of a an accurate representation of what

You think you are or going to be for the rest of that year and it allows teams that maybe halfway or let’s maybe at the trade deadline you’re five and four you don’t know what you are right but if it gets moved back three weeks and you’re

Seven and four eight and four or you’re five- seven all of a sudden it allows you a more complete picture and allows for more possibilities of Trades which I think generally speaking can benefit both sides in a pretty dramatic way it’s almost like taking the NHL approach

Right because we’re just now starting to talk about the trade deadline in NHL and there’s like 23 22 games totally yeah being from Detroit a team like Detroit you know the Red Wings now can say Okay are playing some good Puck yeah they’re it’s fun you know we’re in a spot now

Hey we can maybe go do it so similar similar deal I I agree I think it makes more sense to be a a little bit later let teams who think they can go for a run try to make that’s my stance on it I think that and I understand at some

Point you have to draw a line like I don’t think we need to have a trade deadline after Thanksgiving but even if you push it back two to two and a half weeks then you’re in business teams I think have a much better feel for what

They are what they’re going to be and while the NFL is not like where I think the NBA is where so much of the interest in the NBA stuff that takes place during the off season yeah it does create fan interest and the NFL has an intended

Goal of being relevant 365 days a year pretty good at that aren’t they they sure are uh more trade certainly goes a long way in doing that how surprised were you with the $30 million salary cap hike pleasantly surprised right I bet I would say that there’s really no down

The only way I was trying to think of winners and losers my thought winners everybody right everybody is a winner right um I would say specifically players that play either a premium position or guys that are at the top of their own position are in a good spot

Because resetting the market uh is much easier to do when you’ve got $30 million more to play with um I don’t even know if there is a loser the only one that I could come up with is if competitive balance becomes a little bit of an issue for the NFL

Because teams that are already at the top have now been emboldened to make more audacious moves that impact the next couple of Seasons that being said like a lot of things still have to happen for teams at the top to stay at the top yeah because they’ve got to pay

Well it’s not yeah it’s a lot of players still right you know like the NBA had this cap spike in 2019 that led to the Warriors signing Kevin Durant and the best team or one of the best teams in the entire league had that much more to

Sign one player and in the NBA one player can tilt the entirety of a franchise in the NFL there are some players certainly but it’s not like it’s you know one even the best quarterback is not 20% of the players on the field at one time speaking of contracts

Important players players amongst the best at their position am on R Brown yeah you know where I was going I’m on R Brown is is for um an an extension you know I think before he goes into next season what do you think that looks like

And do you consider him among the the top three four five the top guys at that position not only do I consider him one of the best wide receivers in the NFL this might be one of the easiest extension candidates in the league I agree 100% what more could you possibly

Ask for out of any draft pick but much less one that came in the fourth round than am manra St brown right amra is the definition I think of what the Lions want in a player uh I’m not sure any player is like has a better attitude on

The field than Aman ra he’s just I he’s unbelievable he’s super talented obviously but I think his talent is matched by in tangibles that take him to a level that’s even greater than his quote unquote natural Talent is right I mean he famously wasn’t that fast in the pre-draft process hasn’t seemed to

Impact him one bit the toughness is off the charts sets the tone for an offense a big game player who every got to haveit situation you might think they’re throwing the football to number 14 and you’re probably still not breaking it up so I don’t want to sound super nerdy

Here but I’d imagine if uh Brad Holmes or Mike dner who of course does the contract for the Lions hears this they might agree with my assessment here we fixate we the public fixate on the average annual value for a contract more than any other metric that’s what we

Care about the most I would argue that there are a lot of factors that contribute to how you value a contract so right now the wide receiver mark is set at $30 million per year on the Tyreek Hill deal with Miami yeah 4year $120 million contract if you look at

That one a little bit closer it’s a threeyear $75 million deal with $45 million in compensation to the Tyreek Hill in the final year of that of that contract Tyreek Hill might be the best receiver in the NFL that’s still a big number for any Wide Receiver right a big

Number for any player period so if you’re a manra if the goal for amanra is to get to $31 million per year there are ways that you can get there there are also ways that you could say hey a threeyear $ 77.5 million deal which is

Only if I can do my math quickly like 275 million doll per season or somewhere in that range 26 27 whatever that is right that might be a stronger deal or an equally you know a a very very strong deal that might also get the job done

Does it make you the highest paid wide receiver on an average annual basis technically no does it make you one of the highest paid receivers ever yes so there are a lot of different metrics threeyear cash flow guaranteed money you know injury guarantees practical guarantees things of that nature so I

Think the number is big I think it’s 25 million plus per year I think it’s worth it I every penny is worth it every every penny is worth it I agree by the way last thing I’ll say about it is that not that I have no reason to believe that

They won’t do it but it’s an example it’s example to every player that gets drafted and walks in that building doesn’t matter if you’re taking in the first round fourth round or undrafted if you do what it takes to earn your payday we’re going to reward you I think

There’s a delicate balance if a team doesn’t reward a player who’s done everything you possibly can in an expedient manner it leaves other guys saying what are we gonna do what are we doing here what do we do what are we doing here what do we do yeah so how if

That if that guy can’t get paid how can I get paid no no one deserves it more I mean I love the fact that he could rattle off the 16 guys taken ahead of him you know the fact I I think I I think I had eggs for

Breakfast this morning but I can’t quite recall field when you watch his tape and watch him Block in the Run game it it’s so fun I mean wide receivers don’t stick their head into it like Aman R he just everything that Dan Campbell you mentioned it is about yeah and what he

Wants to culture of this team to be about is in number 14 he’s Dan Campbell with football Talent on the field right Dan obviously was a talented player played for a while in the NFL but Dan would be the first to tell you I saw that combine photo resurfaced recently

Right like yeah Dan was like you know the 4 right like if he if he hates me for saying this I apologize one of my one yard line running off tackle you want Dan Campbell on your side to help punch that into the end zone Dan never ran a 4

Five or whatever you know he didn’t have that the quickness that am manra has but he’s everything you could possibly want in a Detroit Lions wide receiver I’m glad you brought Dan up because the uh player grades came out uh yesterday I believe it was and there were three

Coaches that received an A+ from the players and these are are grades that um you know voted on by by the players that cross the gambut of nutrition and facilities and everything um Andy Reid and I think it was Kevin oconnell with a pluses and Dan Campbell I just so glad

It happened because I hope that people rethink the way that we evaluate head coaching hires which I would argue there’s no Dumber reaction that we do I know people don’t like draft grades sometimes and hey believe it or not sometimes we’re wrong right grading coaching hires is so incredibly

Difficult for so many reasons it’s one thing if listen if someone’s been a coach for a long time before and gets rehired after a track record of success I’m generally going to believe it’s a good hire yeah but when it’s your first time being hired as a head coach on a full-time

Basis it’s it’s a bit of a mystery here but so often we just go and find the high hot offensive coordinator defensive coordinator candidate which by the way the Lions had this year in Ben Johnson right but if Ben Johnson was hired by a team as a head coach my rationale for

Liking Ben Johnson as a hire wouldn’t be oh yeah he he he coordinated a great offense there’s a lot more to the job than just that it would be because when you hear Lions players talk about what has enabled Ben to lead this great offense is talking about clear

Communication having a plan Jared feeling in Bolden he feels empowered within the offense it’s belief it’s throwing the football to pan swo or throwing the football I’m not going to bring up plays but yes or but you know getting ski the ball like doing things like that right those are the traits

That matter so Dan didn’t I mean was Dan I don’t think Dan was ever a coordinator prior to being hir as a head coach no uh obviously was an interim coach for whatever it was 13 year 13 games filling in for Joe Filman after he was ousted in

Miami but and and the press conference that you know was was was being laughed at and mocked it’s like all right so we can have fun with the memes now but there was like serious blowback at the time yeah it’s a reality that uh rather than gravitating towards just the guy

That coordinates the great offense or the great defense let’s find leaders let’s find people that understand how to communicate to Players let’s find coaches that instill a belief let’s find coaches that have their players situationally prepared let’s find coaches that believe in process not just results results obviously matter but you

Don’t have a process you’re not going to get the results you find a coach who can handle the tough times it’s easy I’m not saying it’s easy to be a coach in any capacity but when everything’s going great a lot easier to coach than when

You hit a rut and the Lions didn’t have too many ruts this year but I’m not like I remember a year and a half ago well I think they got I believe it was like week seven shut out yeah shut out yeah against New England in New England 27

Nothing I think it was to a team that ended up being okay not great right and you’re like damn What’s Happening Here with this Lions right come back finish the season seven- two in their last nine games Jared Goes Bananas you think it’s hard or easy being one and six obviously

The answer is is very difficult and I thought that that Dan Campbell showed that um yes it’s great when you’re winning the division and making the conference championship game but if you can’t endure the difficult times cuz more are coming it’s just the way the NFL works

Right you’re not going to last so I was fired up about it I love Dan you know one of my I don’t know five favorite people in the entire NFL I uh I I I’ve suffered a couple of shoulder injuries running through brick walls for Dan money obviously uh dictates free agency

But do you think any anything like that plays in free agency at all totally if you don’t think guys want to go play with him of course yeah now money is I will always believe it and by the way it’s Justified if I NFL free agent I’d probably go where the biggest money

Offer was but tiebreaking situations if you’re a guy that’s already been around and made some money you’re probably saying to yourself I want to go play for that guy as opposed to somewhere else where the coach does not have the presence that Dan Campbell does and Brad

Holmes I don’t want to like lose track of Brad here because Brad has emerged as this unbelievably brilliant general manager who has pres to him too right like you saw how fired up he was in the elevator after a couple of those games and you’re like that guy clearly fit together

Perfectly and that’s the most important important relationship in the building yeah and by the way uh zero prior connection that I’m aware of no didn’t work together right it wasn’t like one was handpicked by you know the other like to my knowledge it was we just ran

A thorough search and the GM we felt was best was Brad Holmes the GM we felt was head coach we felt was best was Dan Campbell so anyways I could wax the rest of the day here on the line well we are here in in Indy for the combine I know

You just uh recently on ESPN had your like 11 key question Mater wasper yep lot of great there just maybe real quickly a a couple things that you’re kind of really focused on some keys on so maybe things that made that column that jumped out that you’re looking toward as as onfield workouts

Now I’ve kicked off yeah i’ always say that like for the onfield workouts I you know I’ve I’ve got my my I think I’m up to 329 player reports that I’ve written up so far so I’ve I’ve I have a feel for uh a lot of guys in this class but it’s

It’s tiebreaker week for me right it’s these guys are wide receiver five versus wide receiver six one runs slow one runs fast it’s going to be hard to keep the slow guy ahead of the fast right things of that nature the Medicals are so essential on so many players uh it’s

Guys like Michael penx Jr from Washington it’s guys like Leu latu from UCLA uh I I hope that those guys get a clean medical history or get a clean bill of health and everybody says there’s no issues whatsoever uh but the reality is that we’ve seen guys fall

Down boards because of what happens here in Indianapolis during this week so it’s tiebreakers it’s medical stuff and this is not something that I’m going to be privy to every single bit of but the interviews matter too I’ve heard already from player uh people around the NFL

This week players that have wowed and players that have left you saying I don’t know yeah I don’t know if he’s a program fit even if the football stuff is really good on tape and a lot of people don’t realize that that’s an important connection there that that the

Football stuff has to match in the interviews Dan said he came down here we talked to him I’m here for the interviews that’s what I’m here Tes everything else I can get all that but I want to sit across from a guy and know if he fits our culture he fits our style

And I think you can only get that in those meetings I don’t think it’s a coincidence that the Lions took Jack Campbell I don’t think that was uh we never met the guy I think it’s you know as you probably have gathered yeah you spend 10 seconds around Jack Campbell

And I yeah yeah yeah exactly you know like and he’s gonna become an even better player he’s gonna continue to become a big part of that defense but you know coach Shepard and Campbell and all the people involved in that pick like on the coaching staff I’m sure and

Brad Holmes and his staff like I’m sure interviews are part of the process in a guy like that being a first round pick 100% field great stuff as always I’m going to have to have you back here maybe before the drafted definitely before a training camp when we know what

This is break we’re going to have you back on field gates from ESPN follow him he’s got a pulse on everything on the NFL thanks so much for joining me I appreciate you appreciate to having me on we’ll see you guys in 63 days in

Detroit not that I’m have to wait wait a little while I’m showing up early I know I know the Lions might not pick till after it might be the 26th by the time people are going to be a little uh little slashed up by the time uh they

Pick a 29 but hey we’ll take it that’s Right welcome back to the 20 the Huddle podcast I am very happy to welcome in Lan Zer line does a great job with the NFL and Lance how much time do you spend doing those combine profiles because they are must reads for me when I’m

Looking to do a a prospect you got the strengths the weaknesses all the little tidbits stuff I mean when do you start that and and how long does that process take leading up to this I started in late October that’s when I feel like I have enough tape to start looking at

Certain players and then I’ll wait for quarterbacks until I’ve got all the tape so some of the biggest prospects I’m not writing up until uh December sometimes into early January but usually late December I I might not include any of their bowl games or the Bowl championship series

But this year I did um so I would say so I’ve written up 343 prospects so far I’ll write about 500 total uh quarterback may take me two and a half hours to get done two and a half to three hours um a general player is going

To take me a good first or second round Talent will take me about an hour and a half to get through the tape and then write the prospects i’ I find tuned my process where I can get to my information quick yeah and then you know a below average player late round

Draftable those guys typically I can find what I need in about 45 to 50 minutes so I’ll work seven days a week try to get anywhere from three to five players done and then once February rolls around I’m not only seven days a week but I’m gonna put in I do a

Three-hour radio show every morning and then um I’ll probably put in another seven or eight hours on top of that and write five to six prospects because I have to have all the combine guys done right so it’s an arduous process from late October to the combine but after

This I’ve got and this sounds funny to people I’ve got about 140 150 more prospects to write in two months which is no big deal and people what like when you’re keeping the pace I am like 75 a month is like that’s light work well it does not go uh unappreciated let’s just

Put it that way and and you know what I know that and I know a lot of people are depending on me because they don’t watch fourth round guards right you know so I know that I can’t shortcut my process because I’ve got a lot of people counting on me to

You know who the player is and and what they look like and what are their strengths and weaknesses and I don’t want to get those wrong my projection may miss my grade may be off but I want you to get a good feel of who it is that

Your team has drafted or may draft 100% you mentioned strengths and weaknesses let’s talk about strengths in this draft class maybe we’re at three positions where you feel like okay there’s some good talent but there’s some good depth too I think teams that are looking for

This position are going to be able to find it not only at top of the draft but maybe in day two and maybe even day three yeah wide receiver hits that Mark uh the top three wide receivers are Cut Above everyone else but I think the real

Strength of this draft is when you get into the second round and and third round day two I think you’re going to find some good starters different types you got some great route runners in there like uh with speed like lad makoni uh uh peara from Florida could not be

Guarded at Senior Bowl or on tape um um Roman Wilson is going to run in a four threes at here at the combine and he’s a guy who’s really seen his stock rise Germaine Burton from Alabama’s big can win you know contested catches so there’s a lot of guys that fit whatever

You’re looking for we’ve got it in this combine Xavier Worthy is going to run an unbelievable time at University of Texas but he’s about 165 pounds so you know it’s he’s he’s the opposite of some of the receivers I talked about but if you want a wide receiver day two and into

Day three is going to be great for you I think uh offensive line it’s rare to see offensive tackles span into the second round with legitimate starting grade but you do have that and you have some developmental players like the kid out of Yale who’s going to be uh in this

Combine you have plenty of good centers decent guards but but really the centers I think range into the fourth round with starting grades and then beside that I would say that uh corner it’s it’s light on linebackers uh a little light topend on defensive tackles but pass rush pass

Rush is another one where it’s really good in the first round falls off a little but then gets a little more in terms of you know what depending on what your taste is and of edge what you need you can find that I think in the fourth

And fifth round you can still find very good backups who have a chance to become eventual starters Lance you’re starting to get people in Detroit excited here with Edge rushers I just want to help AG man I’m an Aaron Glen guy known him since since he was at Houston with the Texans uh

Followed him for a long time and I just want to see that defense become as good as they can I mean listen Detroit is now kind of an America’s team situation right right it was honestly uh people who don’t have a a dog in a fight are

Like I’m an AFC South guy I do radio on Houston but watching Detroit and it’s not just that I like the Dan Campbell story it’s not just that I like Aaron Glenn personally I like the Redemption Arc of of of Jared go yeah I like uh I

Like the fact that you drafted one of my favorite linebackers of all time Malcolm Rodriguez uh I like the fact that this is a team built on the offensive line which is one of my specialties that you went out and said we’re going to kick people’s butt in the trenches like I

Like that it’s the way it’s built and I think they’re an easy team to root for and it’s built for sustained success too when you look at the core players and look what Brad has been able to do in these last three draft Cycles it’s been

Amazing I want to talk about one guy in particular you mocked him in your first mock draft Darius Robinson out of Missouri a guy that I like I actually mocked him as well why does he a good fit right there at the end of the first

Round for Detroit well he can play so he lost weight going from defensive tackle to defensive end this year they just needed a defensive end they were in injured at Missouri so he bounced from D tackle to D end and I mean didn’t miss a

Beat he was just uh just beat people up off the edge he is Body Beautiful great physical specimen can play defensive tackle or defensive end so you can Rush him inside as a subpackage rusher on third Downs you can play him outside as a base end who bullies run blockers and

Um I just think it gives you a nice compliment to what Aiden Hutchinson does you got a bully of the same stature on the other side maybe not the same exact athlete but I think he’s going to test pretty well and I just like the the Dan Campbell mentality of let’s go physical

We’re trying to physically impose our will the same way we do with our offensive line and we’re going to do it with our defensive front too and I think one of the best ways to compete for a championship people get locked up in a lot of different positions but when

You’re dominant on your fronts it makes a job much much easier and typically you can find help at corner at wide receiver some of the skill positions uh on day two and day three so you know if you get a special physical specimen like Robinson who is really on the the

Incline I say draft the ascending Prospect with the great traits yeah and you look got love that versatility right I mean he played anywhere from zero to nine technique I think he played maybe every single one in college and you look at the way Aaron has kind of created

Some of these sub packages with bumping Aiden inside and he likes to do some of those things and move guys around just seems like a good fit yeah I agree with you value at 29 where do you see Lions haven’t been drafting you know this late

In a little while uh Brad’s had top 10 picks heading into the draft in each of his first three years so this is a little different he talked uh the other day about just you know loving the fact that you got to trust the tape at 29 you

Know it’s not about getting the sexy you know pick in the top 10 guy but at 29 where do you see value the most if you’re Detroit now free agency comes first so needs are going to change a little bit but where’s the value at 29 the value that’s a good question because

I every draft has its own flow and lifespan of where prospects go and I think there’s a very definitive one to me the value in this draft is going to be the second group of wide receivers Adonai Mitchell from Texas uh Brian uh Brian Thomas Jr from LSU I mean they may not

Be on the board but at that spot that’s where the value is I think Graham Barton from duke who can play center or guard Jackson P Johnson from Morgan who can play center of guard these are guys that I would put on the top of my list

Because those are going to be the value players guys who have strong solid first round grades uh who also might fall there depending on if the quarterback pushes is strong enough to go five deep which I think it will be you know the Lions have Alan Ross St Brown they have

Jameson Williams but that’s still an area of need they’re still looking for a number three guy depending on what free agency does with with Josh and some of those other guys but well that’s why I think I think you know when you look at wide receivers it’s a it’s a pick you

Wouldn’t typically make for a team that’s not very good but you can once you get to a certain level you can like I thought jir Gibbs was a really intriguing because it was a matchup it was specifically designed to create stress on defenses with a special

Matchup if you now have am man Ross St Brown and Jameson you got a field stretcher you got your guy who can work from the slot and now you put someone on the other side that can work all three levels now you have given you know you’ve given that offense along with jir

Gibbs and then a bully like like Montgomery you’ve got an opportunity really to attack anywhere on the field all three levels with any number of prospects so that’s when you’re trying to make that jump and say we want to win a Super Bowl you can make a move like

That all right last one for me just the cornerback class maybe just a quick uh synopsis quick rundown um end of first round into day two can you find quality starters is this a pretty good cornerback class I think it is I think you can find quality starters um you

Know you may have to would the Lions be willing to move up for a corner that might be what you need to do because for me the top four or five corners there’s a little bit of Gap after that so it might be a situation where you need to

Move up maybe three spots something like that but uh I do think that you can get it there’s going to be a Kool-Aid mckinstry possibly at the end of the first round is one guy to to to keep an eye on and and it’s a it’s deep enough

That you could let it slide into the second you could even trade back into the second round if you wanted to but if I’m the lines man I’m close everything I’m doing is really this might be kind of a now draft Yeah you know because Jared G’s not getting any younger so it

Might be a now draft where you make moves that maybe are a little more aggressive as opposed to playing for the future well they got four picks in the top 100 they’ve got some cap space to deal with should be a fun off season in Detroit great job as always great

Information continue to follow Lance he does everything for nfl.com all he’s got the the know on all these prospects you need to know anything on a guy go to nfl.com go to laner line uh he’s got got all the information thanks so much for joining me appreciate take It welcome to the 20 in the Huddle podcast presented by Microsoft and we are here in Indianapolis it is the NFL scouting combat one of my favorite weeks and joining me is Ben solak from the ringer you guys might know him as the new kid on the Block if you read Peter

King at all congratulations on that by the way I mean that’s that’s quite the honor though Ben right Peter’s been doing this for a long time and to shout you out as kind of one of those new kids those upand comers coming up for for people to read quite the honor and Peter

Like that’s very cool Peter’s also been like helping and and providing advice and mentorship like to a lot of young journalists over over the past couple of years so like that’s always cool but I always want to tell people like Peter’s been in the trenches for a lot of young

Guys and and I I I got a world of respect for that well it was certainly a great honor you are a friend of the podcast you’ve been on a few times so we love having you let’s just jump right into this it’s it’s a fun time in the

NFL right we’re here here in Indianapolis we’re getting ready for the draft but free agency is before that so there’s going to be a lot um going on let’s start with the Detroit Lions and getting to the NFC Championship Game obviously huge season but when you talk

To people in Detroit they kind of Wonder do they have that staying power was this a flash in the pan I know Brad Holmes was pretty adamant after the season talking about we’ve done all this to be a consistently good football team does this Detroit team have staying power in

In your in your opinion they do yeah now what Dan said after the Lost nfy championship game was correct which is that you can be as good of a team as you were next year relative to last year and not make it back to the N championship

Game we start to get to playoff football one bounce two bounces everybody’s banged up everybody’s hurt we don’t play best of seven Series in the playoffs the way the NBA does m we play best of ones right and so Dan was correct to say listen like it’s not guaranteed that it

Just because you’re you’re this good next year me get back to this spot next year that was that was accurate but in general yeah like I remember when Brad and Dan first took the job a few years back and they were very explicit like we believe a good team is built through the

Draft it’s built patiently it is built slowly it is homegrown like that’s how you build a true Contender so now three years later this is why we built it like the pieces all guys they drafted and we’re young and and and we’re cheap and we’re we’re homegrown we have a culture

We have an understanding of who fits where like this is why we built it this way not to go get free agents and to get to nine wins quickly and kind of you know feel like a little s a little Band-Aid it would be legit good for a

Long time so yes I think they do have power you know and coaching continuity I think plays a part in that too Ben Johnson back Aaron Glenn back you don’t see that a lot going into a third season especially when a team has been as good

As Detroit has the last two years how much does that coaching continuity fit into the mix as well how important is that Dan talked about it this week down here just how almost spoiled he feels a little bit having those guys back but that’s a huge part of it too isn’t it

Ben it’s an enormous deal ask ask the Philadelphia Eagles last year’s NFC champion or I say two years ago now who then lose both both their coordinators and and are bad in the playoffs ask the 49ers with their Carousel a defensive coordinator right your your windows in

This league tend to be very small and it’s hard to crack them wider it’s hard to keep them sustained one of the best ways to do that is to R is to retain coaches is to have have the guys in the building who understand how to make the

Pieces work like Ben Johnson to Jared GF is the easiest and clearest example like we know that Ben has figured out what works for Jared we know that Jared trust Ben Jared has gotten better over his time here with Ben if you if you took

Ben out of the equation it would be a massive question mark not to say it would be bad but it would be a huge question are going in and so like the the continuity allows you to have reasonable expectations for the team at a high level yeah I think Dan had a

Great line down here in Indie when he said getting all the coordinators back it’s like being able to start at level 401 instead of 101 and I think that’s a great point for a team coming off an NFC Championship to just hit the ground running like like you talk about all

Right one of the big contracts that the lions are probably going to have to figure out here the most important position in football Jared golf I’m just curious from your perspective the out side looking in what do you think a Jared golf extension looks like if you

Were to if you were to guess on one I think he gets $45 million a year I think he gets it like functionally over three years right it might be like a four-year deal and the fourth Year’s got no bonus money and you restructure y y whatever

Uh the Daniel Jones contract is a really important contract in the league right now because every single agent of every single starting quarterback in the league can walk up to a GM and go we’d like to beat this please because you can you can make an argument your quack

Better than Jones that’s taking Mickey out of Daniel Jones is just he had that great season in a contract year that he switched agents they got a huge deal out of it and that’s going to become a new floor for a lot of people and so the

Idea of golf getting anything less than than 40 to me is just I I would laugh that way if I were his agent yeah I think he’s going to be more than the 45 to 48 uh per year range and I think yeah like you’re going to structure this kind

Of like the Kurt Cousins deals were when he first joined Minnesota where you’re only kind of on a three-year Horizon because he is getting a little bit older he’s going to get banged up more easily and and you don’t want to invest for four years and 5 years so I think yeah

If you do whatever 138 over three like that to me makes sense and huge that the salary cap went up as much as it did it really gives teams like Detroit who are looking to have a couple big contracts is not only with Jared um Aman rosin

Brown is coming to P Su is is can get one but he’s got his fifth year option that’s probably one more year away but Detroit’s got some big contracts to to deal out and like we talked about off the top that’s a good thing though those are guys when we’re talking about Aman

Ra St Brown those are guys that you drafted developed and now become some of the best players in the league deserve those deals and you like paying them and if you go early on a St Brown you go early on a penny and you build out that

Structure off the end of their rookie deals you can give them the big deals now but the hits don’t start coming actually until a few years down the road right when the big salary numbers come and that’s what allows you to remain aggressive in free agency now right and

Going and and land a couple of big fish and try to plug the last remaining gaps on this team and so it is it’s nice to have that homegrown talent because when you extend them you can play with the years and play with the structure a lot

More they’re already in the building I know we’re here at the combine talking about the draft but free agency comes first so I want to ask you a couple things about free agency what do you think out there is is a good free agent fit for Detroit is

There is there one name one position group maybe that that you see boy that that guy just kind of seems like a great fit in Detroit both for what he brings to the table and what the Lions need I Circle Right Guard I think that that

That that’s the spot on offense that I would want to improve you have Kevin doson who was traded from the Steelers to the Rams last year started really nicely for the Rams he’s on the left side started well in the interior for them I think that that dodson’s a good

Fit for what they do Mike and wenu who’s the guard out of out of New England now and he’s he’s a tackle sized player but Detroit likes him big they and onwenu has played guard in the league and played there successfully you can bring onwenu in and he can start a Right Guard

For you and both of those guys are solid starters but not break the bank starters and since you’re going going to break the bank on Decker and on Su and R Now you kind of already have your big money guys you can go for I think a not lower

Tier guy but just like a solid starter and just feel good about raising the floor that that offensive line so to me like the the I think the interior offensive line Market’s going to be good in the draft it’s also going to be good in free agency wouldn’t be surprised you

You don’t want to walk into the draft with a massive Gap at Right Guard and feel like we need to go make a pick there early you’d rather have a solution in the building and then if you want to draft guy do that as well so I think

Guard is the spot I look at when you when you look at it is there a better position to address via free agency verse the draft I know you just talked about guard they’re both in there but when you look at free agency vers the

Draft 100% yeah yeah do you look at like what’s maybe better in free agency yeah like I it’s always I think it’s always better to get a safety in free agency than the draft I think offensive lineman is better for a free AGC in the draft you just seen success with those guys

Changing teams over time right like you can get good safeties good offensive line on the market if like a wide receiver hits the market like not a trade guy but a legit free agent guy or an edge rusher usually I’m kind of like those like those guys don’t get away

From teams if they’re if they’re legit right and so like baring OB Brian Burns Carolina Panthers malpractice I don’t like to kind of go for those positions I’d rather draft and develop at those spots I would say like tight end is another spot where you love to go get a

Free agent instead of draft guy because usually the rookie tight ends aren’t good you can’t say that on a Detroit Lions podcast they already proved you wrong on that one so yeah like what corner as a spot as as well if a corner makes it to the market usually there’s a

Reason he made it and and you’re more likely I think if you’re if you’re swinging for like a really top tier guy to kind of do so successfully in the draft lerus sne here being a perfect example like if lerus Sneed made it to the market Brad Holmes should have

Walked up to sneed’s agent with the biggest blanket check you ever dog on saw there but the Chiefs have explosively said like Hey we’re going to tag this guy we’re not going to let him get to the market because that’s the caliber of player that he is so trade

Potential still there I heard I would I would I mean like I would trade a first for Jerry sne but that’s why I’m not a general manager I’m an irresponsible man who just send picks for good players uh the fan perspective I love it a little bit of fandom there the NFC

North let’s get into that a little bit um obviously a lot going on the number one pick was Chicago they’ve got to decide what they want to do with Justin fields and Caleb Williams it sounds to me they’re leaning toward Caleb Williams I think that’s the right move you can

Reset that quarterback um position with the rookie deal Minnesota’s got to figure out what they’re going to do at quarterback as well Green Bay looks like that team like Detroit maybe at the end of 2022 when they had some young pieces that were coming together playing a lot

Better just your expectations for the NFC North to me it looks like a division that’s going to be much much improved in a much harder Road for Detroit to repeat in 24 all of those teams feel like they’re at least 500 or better and and that’s with like the Bears a potential

Quarterback change right like they were they finished just under 500 and they had such a strong end of the season think the Packers are you know won a playoff game clearly the team us expect to be over 500 the Vikings maybe like a little bit of a question mark because

What if they don’t bring Kirk back but there’s pieces like on that defense Brian Flores returns there’s Justin Jefferson healthy and TJ Hawkinson hopefully healthy like they still got guys everybody to me feels like nine and eight and and up right in terms of expectation so now it becomes do you win

Your divisional games do you win your road games are you able to to secure that Division I think this is going to be you know it’s going to be week 14 15 nobody’s going to be near securing this Division and and if you made me pick a

Team to win it I would pick Detroit I think they’re the best team in the division But A lot’s going to happen between now and then so absolutely the AFC North and in the American Conference the NFC North and the National Conference too those those are the best

Divisions in the league right now all right we are at the combine so I would be a little bit remiss if I didn’t ask you about the draft and let’s start with this Brad Holmes can he continue this pace of hitting on guys in all three

Days you look at his draft picks I mean 75% 80% in terms of hits on guys playing he can he keep this up absolutely not and no chance and that’s why it’s very important to understand I think that Brad does given his comments yesterday that when you when you hit like this boy

You better make it count you got to make it worth it right you have to hit I always go back to the Chris ballad Indianapolis Colts late 2010s right the other Quinton Nelson Darius Leonard draft unbelievable Bron Smith in the third round they’re pulling cats out of Kenny Moore they’re drafting

Unbelievably and and ballor and the Colts just kept recycling a quarterback and they never fully went all in they never committed then by the time they started to figure a quarterback out all those guys were on their second contract they were getting hurt they were getting

Old when you strike iron and it’s hot you got to go this is the league it is not for long you got to attack and so yes like Gibbs Lea Branch Hutchinson St Brown Su you have this young core ridiculous spend attack trade go right and if gol is your quarterback and you

Feel like you have the guy like long term you’ve secured the most important position go get everybody you can right they should be calling the Bengals about t haens calling the Niners about Brandon IU calling the Chiefs about jerus sne call anybody who’s got anybody about

Anybody who might be anybody this is the time to go on this is the time to attack we’ll see right because this is their window you you think absolutely and I think that they know that I think that they get that but also when you I think again I think they understand that

Academically but when you’ve drafted and built and and been as good as a culture team as they’ve been over the last few years sometimes it’s hard to accept the reality of like all right we got to go get some big stars so we’ll see how they behave I’m really hoping that they you

Know ramp things up to an 11 a little bit about 55 million roughly in cap space they’ve got cap M to deal with they got four picks in the top 100 it should be a really fun free agency it should be a really fun draft he is Ben

Solak he is the one of the the New Kids on the Block as Peter King says but a very good friend of the podcast very well respected you do a great job with the ringer thank you so much ben for joining me [Applause] always welcome back to the 20 men the Huddle podcast I am very happy to welcome in Matt Miller does such a great job with ESPN The Bleacher Report before that Matt is this when it kind of starts to become real for you is a comb I know

You’ve been evaluating these guys for months but now everybody’s here in one spot it’s all about the draft is this when it kind of starts to become a little bit more real for you absolutely and it’s when the rest of the league takes notice of the Trap you like we’ve

Been waiting for months to talk about these guys and now it’s like everyone else is is able to do that you know like you all had such a great season you had such a long run through the playoffs you’re not thinking about the draft you’re worried about the 49ers you know

So it’s like this is I think when you get all 32 fan bases you know like you mentioned when I was at bleach report we used to have a joke of like you know as soon as the Browns are out of the playoffs that’s draft season for at

Least one team you know and then everyone else followed suit and and now it’s you know it’s this is the time when all 32 teams are focused on this and it’s such a crazy schedule in the NFL because we all come here we do this and then we immediately focus on free agency

And almost it gets put to the back burner again the free agency goes and then you know teams are having the visits and everything else goes and then it gets into draft mode again but it’s a weird dichotomy of the of the NFL schedule it is and you know the NFL is

Is great at keeping us interested in everything they do so you know but also like as you know what happens behind the scenes here is so important and it is The Unofficial start of free agency even though you know we don’t like to talk about that fact a lot of deals are

Getting done here and interest being shared so it is yeah it’ll be a nice little break for me me after here while all my colleagues are covering free agency I can step back and kind of revisit the take breath that too yeah all right you recently updated your top

50 um just maybe give me a quick synopsis where’s this draft you think strong what position wise do you think it’s strong where team’s going to be able to get some immediate impact yeah wide receiver every year right every year wide receiver that’s just the way

The the college game has become ABS I me transition so easily now yeah and so wide receiver’s great corner is great which very interesting for for Detroit Detroit and I you know offensive tackle which you’re very good there at off tackle but it is a deep class and a lot

Of those guys could potentially be guards some of them could even play center so uh it is those are the The Three core positions I think we’re going to see a lot of really good players I’m glad you mentioned that because it’s something I wanted to ask everybody

Knows kind of who the guard and Center guys are you know the names but I don’t think a lot of maybe fans know of some tackles that are projected to play guards or some tackles that you could see play guard that’s obviously a need depending on what happens in fre Agency

For Detroit but maybe who are one of two are those guys that are tackles right now but you could see them playing guard and and maybe Lions fans should know their name just in case that that’s kind of where it ends up to begin their Washington’s left tackle Troy fanu okay

Not short armed but shorter and that’s probably going to kick him inside Graham Barton from duke left tackle gonna get kicked inside I think Jordan Morgan from Arizona another guy who College left tackle but could get kicked inside so and they’re interestingly enough uh their range is right there in the you

Know mid to late 20 so the value would be would be right if that’s the direction Detroit went and do you see teams value those kind of guys more too just because injury it’s not a matter of you know yeah if injuries are going to happen it’s when and to have a guy

That’s not only versatile to play all three interior spots but in a bind can go play you know tackle if needed to in game we’ve seen some of those situations with Detroit before where they’ve had to have a guard play tackle and teams love that kind of flexibility even you like

Hey P needs to play left tackle like okay yeah well he can do both that’s great but yeah I mean I you can only carry so many guys on your roster so I think that’s where it’s huge to say okay well you know we’re drafting you you

Were a college left tackle we’re going to move you to guard but in a pinch we know you could play left tackle and it’s not going to be that huge transition or we’re not have to dedicate a lot of practice time to it we’re going to be

Able to get you back out there and have you do that and you know teams like Green Bay have made a living and and the Philadelphia Eagles as well they made a living off drafting linemen who are versatile just for those reasons all right let’s get into your mock draft a

Little bit uh first pick at 29 last ATU latu the uh defensive end out of UCLA you’re one of the few guys I think that has him going back that far is that just because of what you see with the quarterbacks and the and the skill guys

Really dominating the first or is there something about him or or or how do you think he gets to that spot with detor 29 now that’s a great question you know he is has been a fantastic play the last two years at UCLA yeah prior to that he

Had to medically retire at Washington because of a neck injury so it’s a situation if you remember similar to Jaylen Phillips yeah who was at UCLA retired went to Miami and you know became a first round pick so this week is huge for L with the Medicals also

Someone who’s not going to test exceptionally well he’s just a really really good football player he’s a technician uh you know he looks like a seasoned Pro playing defensive end so I think that’s the reason for the slip in that mock draft but those medical questions could get answered this week

And he could go in the top 15 I I think Lions fans would love it if he’s sitting there just based off the tape and what the players and how he fits the scheme and and that Dan Campell kind of Mantra as well then the second round you had

Them going aack TJ Tampa what do you like about him yeah physical Feist you mentioned glad you said Danity like yeah you want somebody who’s going to be a little bit of a nuisance for offenses that’s who he is and I think especially in the playoff run I was so impressed by

Detroit but every time I watched it was like man I would love to get one more Corner in there you know at least one more young Corner in there and and Tampa not only fits the scheme but you know in the second round I I think he’s a starting caliber player that’s actually

Available just in the late second round at least on my second question my next question excuse me the cornerback class are there going to be guys late in today too that you think teams are going to be able to to to snag and can be guys that

Can compete for for starting jobs yeah we’ll see what the Run happens you know if if six or seven go in the first round that’s going to change things but yeah you know like I loved Jarvis brownley from Louisville at the Senior Bowl he had such a great week and I’m watching

Him I’m looking at my rankings like this guy could be this could be a third round player who’s going to play in the NFL a lot you know Mike sers still from he’s going to be a nickel but he’s going to play 70% of the time and because he’s

A little bit smaller probably going to be a third round pick where do you see value at 29 when you’re when you’re Detroit it’s it’s a a weird spot to be you know because last three years with Brad holes he’s had a top 10 pick going

Into it but he’s at 29 Now where’s the value for him yeah I think it could be offensive line I really do just because you know we we might see two tackles in the top 10 we might see one and that’s going to push Really T to players down

Um and and as we mentioned you know some of these guys even JC leam from Alabama he can play guard in the NFL and be a really really good one so you you obviously you guys are great at tackle but I think when you look at the

Interior that’s where you can maybe find Great Value what about this Edge class what do you like about it overall yeah overall I think you have a lot of athletes you know got Dallas Turner from Alabama chop Robinson from Penn State maybe they’re not the most well-rounded

Guys but they’re going to give you that speed especially opposite aen nudson who’s just such a game wrecker things easier for a lot of absolutely I think I could probably get a sack ling up opposite him he’s that good and then you know defensive tackle there could be

Really good value at at 29 as well because again we could be looking at a spot where only one like Byron Murphy has come off the board you know maybe J on Newton from Illinois might be there tandre sweat you know is more of a true nose tackle but even putting a nose

Tackle next to aen Hudson is going to create a lot of problems and a Le mcneel putting that kind of size next to Al Le mcneel n Hutch let let let them work a little bit that be that’d be interesting all right final one for me Brad’s been

So Brad Holmes has been so terrific in his first three draft Cycles yeah is can he keep this up he’s really hit I mean Matt it’s been 80 90% of the guys that he’s drafted have become quality guys that contribute yeah if not right away in year two and three

So I do think he can keep it up because he’s a very good scout I will say it’s a little easier when you’re in the top 10 than it is at 29 it’s also here’s the thing it’s also easier when you have a roster that’s developing you know now

You’re a team that was had a lead in the NFC championship game that that roster doesn’t have as many holes as it had two years ago because of how good of a job Brad has done so yeah he can keep it up and I I love that he is just bucking

Trends and saying we’ve got a foundation built we’ll take a running back in the first round and he’s going to be a huge playmaker for us or we’ll take a off ball linebacker in the first round and and you know it helps when you can find

A Brian branch in round two so yeah they’ve done a great job I’m I’m in awe of how well they built this team yeah it should be a fun uh couple weeks leading in I know you’re a busy man you can check everything that Matt Miller does

On ESPN does a great job with with their draft coverage there Matt thanks for taking the time appreciate you of course thanks [Applause]