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You got ma ma here with you on bird 365 and we’re lucky enough to have Randy Mueller from us um his website foot muf foot.com a must for all you football fans out there and he does a podcast for the athletic uh football GM podcast
Randy um let me start here did you ask John McVey if he had time to play golf this week I’m just get out and spend some time on the links with John McVey since he’s not actually gonna be in uh Indianapolis what are your thoughts on the trend in the National Football
League 2 it isn’t a necessity anymore we can send out a couple of Scouts get all the tape get all the info that we need come back and crunch our numbers we don’t really need to go out and mingle with other Executives other coaches and have access uh immediately to the
Players is that the uh it’s certainly a trend is it a new wave that’s going to overtake the NFL well I think it’s always been issue is how you how do you spend your time I think it’s a sometimes a struggle for these younger coaches to
Come here and spend um the amount of downtime that they have in that you mentioned it it’s going from event to event it’s struggling sometimes to to uh figure out time to get with your own people plus there’s there’s things going on football-wise with regard to new installations uh reviewing the prior
Year there are a lot of things now I think some of these coaches really enjoy the face-to-face time they get with the prospects but not to make an excuse for for sea and some of these other guys they’re going to get some of that they will get plenty of interview time
They’re going to bring the top prospects in they get to visit guys straight in their own office so they’re not going to give up a bunch of uh advantages that others are going to get for for being here and frankly the workouts are probably the least important thing of
The whole week so I think they’re going to gain the medical information by still by not being here the zoom interviews they get they’re going to have recordings of all that stuff so they’re not really giving up a lot except that they have to leave their own office yeah
Now the medical testing I think we all know that’s by far the most important uh part of the combine Randy but you mentioned the onfield stuff and it is that more validation at this stage or or or maybe you see an outlier maybe somebody really shows up and you go back
To look at the film how important is that for for executives and coaches at this high level position obviously it’s big for pants that’s what they can see but for them how how much how important is it I think you’re right I think as a whole and the league may not want to
Hear this but they have been behind the scenes pushing it this it’s really a Content driven week now that’s really what it is yeah but the but the information that you glean from the field workouts are just what you said John it is if somebody jumps out that I
Didn’t really have a good feel about it does send me back to the film room these teams are are not raising cards based on what they see in workouts or in Pro days for that matter they’re not moving people around on the board per say it’s part of the entirety of that evaluation
Process for that player you’re building a file and yes this is part of it but you you said it the overwhelming majority of the best information gathered here is all from a medical standpoint and I’ve stated a few holiday ends but I’m no doctor so I’m gonna let
Those guys handle that very good um we had uh our buddy Rick catella from the NFL draft B on hour number one and he told a tale of being at one of the All-Star games this year and there was a player there who got invited to an
All-Star game but didn’t get the combine invite made like $150,000 in nil money this year I was talking like he’s the best quarterback eligible for the draft this year except he couldn’t even get a combine invite um that he some of these guys are benefiting and more to him I’m not
Looking to Short Change anybody if you get yourself a good nil deal go for it big guy but it inflates their own selfworth in their own mind I’m sorry you can’t get that sitting at home in your office if you’re a general manager
Or a coach you get out you get to see a man even if it’s just for a couple minutes you get to spend a couple minutes with him you can formulate an opinion on what type of Personality a guy has aren’t they missing out on that if they’re not in
Indianapolis well there’s there’s they’re missing for sure but I think they think the process itself will help them gather those missing ingredients and and I’ll be honest I don’t disagree I understand that everybody should be here there are certain coaches hey Andy Reid’s here right I mean uh Pete Carroll
Was here every year I think their purpose for being here is as much about team building within their own building as it is to toh build players and acquire Talent this is a great time for coaches to get a chance to catch up with Scouts with Personnel guys with other
Things most of these teams have their draft boards initially set already so they’ve already had their draft meetings they they’ve done that in February they’ve had obviously free agent meetings because as a GM or a decision maker I want all that information sooner than later and the combine will sure
Fill in some Blanks on but I think it’s more like John said gaining some advantages to players who you weren’t as familiar with or had less consensus on that what you see here sends you back to the film room I I’ll just give you an example of to help make your point for
You Pete Caroll really felt like by being here and having 60 interviews face Toof face where the player is five feet away from you that that player would then get a great Vibe for that team for that uh team building for the the the really the way that let’s just use the
Seahawks for example treat their players that’s important to him that’s more of I think a recruiting background from a college first coach who really wants to make an impression on these players I don’t think these new age coaches really care that much about recruiting Because it’s really not a recruiting League per
Se that is college so maybe there’s something there depending on your background as a coach maybe that determines if you think this is valuable as a recruiting type tool yeah and we got Nick serani here in Philadelphia and he famously got shoted for playing rock paper scissors trying
To gauge people’s competitive and Nerf basketball but yeah everybody’s got a different style so I think it can work a lot of different ways uh Jody’s point about nil starts number one overall Randy and you wrote about this at the athletic uh did a great job athletic.com
On on what Ryan poles can do I think everybody’s centered on well he’s probably gon to trade Justin Fields take calb Williams at number one but he can do a lot of different things especially if they like one of the other quarterbacks um with Caleb Williams we
All know of the talent he made more than a lot of NFL quarterbacks and and that’s never happened before this is a first if you were in that situation if you were Ryan poles how do you handle a prospect who made upwards over10 Million last year how does that affect your decision
Making or does it or do you just have to rely on just trying to get the know the kid as much as possible well I think the whole nil Cloud comes with pros and cons and Jody mentioned the the negative to it it can inflate egos it can inflate
People self-awareness I think that is an issue but the other good thing I think it can do is these guys are Pros before you even get them one of the reaching and connecting of dots for me that was always an issue is what’s going to happen to this young man when he gets
Given a pile of money is it going to change him how is he going to affect you know the people around him with this money um I think now the nil age kind of gives you those answers a year or two ahead of time before you get them at the
Pro level so I think it comes with pros and cons I think how they these guys are are managing or being managed by teams of marketing people now and others at the college level that’s an indicator of how they’re going to manage it at the
Next level so I do think it gives you some answers it it comes with some negatives as well and I’ll follow up on the point that you made Randy uh that you said code Carol always made the ability to maybe at least on just a short-term basis bond with a player for
The couple minutes you get to interview him and like there are 321 players in the combine there are 270 some odd players that are going to be drafted I’ll do the bad for you there’s 50 guys guaranteed in Indianapolis this week to not get drafted because they’ve got more
Guys showing up at the combine that they’re actually gonna have a draft well now you get into undrafted free agents and if you have a relationship with a player maybe it gives you a little bit of an edge if it comes to a guy you want
To try and sign after to draft is over done with very great point and I agree and that’s when it can be a recruiting factor and that’s when meeting in a room like that can pay off again I think it’s it’s the college um past that helps
People like Pete Carol deal with this and I think that’s a great point because players do have choices then and it may lead to you getting a player or two because of an interview or a connection that maybe not the head coach but a scout made or an intern made anybody
With a like this on the down the road guys the only thing that where that is a negative is in the formal interviews you only get I believe it’s 60 of those so you may not get those undrafted college kids but it is a chance to spend time
With them out and away from those formal interviews whether it’s in a group setting um these groups are being led around Indie part of the process is they come by position as you guys know and they get LED through in groups I always like to have one of our Scouts be a
Leader of one of those groups because it gained we gained some information having a scout with that group 247 for the whole time they’re here so you really get to know these players and some of those might be listed 200 instead of 20 on your board so it’s a it’s it’s
Ongoing gathering information on these guys all the time I always like to tell these players you’re on stage 247 so you better be on your best behavior and you’re being evaluated no matter what you’re doing it doesn’t necessarily mean that only what’s on tape you’re being evaluated as a person the minute you
Show up yeah how you treat people how you yeah how you interact with people all comes into it um you know the the coaches and GMS that are there Randy I always find it interesting to combine because they they talk at the combine they’re at the podium and nothing is
Gone on right free agency starts March 13 well you know March 11th you can start to negotiate we know everything starts in indianap Apolis um they don’t want to tell us anything the reporters uh but they got to go up there and talk here in Philadelphia one of the big
Stories is the Eagles uh granted Hassan reic permission uh to seek a trade so from a GM’s perspective toset looks like all right you know we think your value is here you think it’s higher go out and see what other teams think hopefully we can work something out is there anything
More to that philosophy or that strategy of when you do something like that with a proven veteran player who’s probably outperformed not probably has outperformed this contract without a doubt I think there’s always a message being sent and and I know how well enough know that he’s got
Some meaning behind when he allows somebody to do something like that I think two things in this case one you might want the other teams and I’m not saying this in reck’s case and and I agree with you his assessment really High he’s a good player but sometimes
You would let a player shop his own Wares to maybe bring back the message of I really wasn’t aware that some people didn’t think I was the greatest thing in the world so you want others to deliver that message as part of the negotiation
You don’t have to be the bad guy to do the other thing is when you look at free agency this year there are a bunch of really good Edge players a bunch of guys who do exactly what Hassan reic does so I think there’s always options out there
And smart GM like how is always gonna play those cards at least to research them hey there’s Bryce Huff with the Jets there’s there’s a uh others I’m just trying to think of the free AG Allen gonna make the uh I don’t think Josh Allen Brian Burns I don’t gonna
Available Hunter out there denal Hunter Jonathan grard from Texans um cadarius Smith from the Browns there’s a bunch of players that are really good at that position so and I’m not saying that’s ho he’s motive but it is all about options and when you pay a player it’s usually
Because you have similar options that are going to make you step down a a level or two and nobody wants to to steps back when switching players like that but it is definitely part of the negotiating process to to allow players to if nothing else kind of gauge their
Own value Randy if I’ve asked you this question in previous years leading up to the draft I apologize for asking it again but I think it’s a worthwhile question and uh if I haven’t asked you before I’m very much looking forward to your answer when you were the GM when
You were in charge of the draft and uh putting all your Scouts together and coming up with a consensus when the draft came around was there a coach in college football be it either head coach most likely head coach or even a coordinator uh at a specific school with a where you
Got a couple of players to come through that school and they were very good your and they were well coached and they were mature and they understood the way the football was supposed to be played was there a coach in college that you looked at and said well if I’m taking a player
From his program this is one thing I’m not gonna have to worry about I know that he’s gonna be that type of a player was there a coach that got an extra Randy Mueller check mark because if I you took a player from his program you knew that you were getting the goods
Well there’s no doubt there’s programs that prepare players for the NFL better than others and sometimes it’s as simple as systems and and and you mentioned coaches but it’s really what they these coaches ask these players to do but yes I think and everybody always now in
Hindsight says I want a player that Nick Savin coached and and because he we know he got thick skin we know he’s been fundamentally sound and and that was always the case for me as well I mean I think the bigger programs now you’ve got to be careful with the um sourcing that
You do at these bigger programs because they’re protecting their players above and beyond so there’s a little bit of an agenda there when you do do intangible searching and probing for what makes a player tick but I’ve always thought that Nicks group I know on defense exactly
How they’ve been coached I know what they’ve been asked to do the other there’s also a downside to that too is have these players been maxed out already because they have been coached so well so I don’t know that you know you can say that all Alabama guys are
Going to get better because they’re platform when they start with you is higher sometimes you have more potential and it’s better to see someone’s inadequacies but think you can change them to elevate in your scheme yeah to something different so it kind of goes both ways um I didn’t know Jody was
Going there but the piggyback off it uh what he what he was asking you there Randy the the the college environment in general now we all know it it’s not their job necessarily to prepare prepare people for the NFL so some guys are just coaching for their jobs and they’re
Trying to win football games on Saturday and now you have the transfer portal where everybody’s moving around all over the place from year to year to year so a lot of times you don’t get a good gauge of what a player might be in a certain system they’re bouncing
Around is that something you know the old adage control what you can control or would you prefer some a prospect who spent three years at a certain School versus somebody who goes from college to college to college how would that affect your evaluation of a particular player
It’s definitely part of the process and this is just my personal feeling I don’t think John that you can get great at your craft when you’re memorizing a new defense or a new offense and have done it multiple times I didn’t feel like as a player I got better until I really
Knew the scheme really knew the system really knew what was going to be asked of me from play to play and kind of was the coach on the field for say if you were a quarterback somewhere so I want I would probably prefer guys who are in a
System to stay in that system get good at what they’re being asked to do and then they can Elevate their CRA I think if you jump around as a player it’s not a great position to be in because yeah maybe you have a little more play time
Over here but at the same time I think your craft then takes a step back because you have to memorize a whole new set of respons posibilities a whole new scheme you’re being taught a total different way and there’s a period of adjustment I don’t know if that makes
Sense but I would prefer a guy to to get really good at what he does in one spot before he jumps around and maybe some of these guys have that in mind but I know just personally I I didn’t get better until I really had a foundation for what
The coaches were asking and sometimes that takes two or three years following up on what John just asked players who come to the combine and go yeah no I’m not going to do that be it run be a throw be it lift Marvin Harrison has blatantly said listen I’m not going to
Do any drills because I’m pre for any drills I’m prepping for being an NFL player next year I’ll come out I’ll shake hands you can take your medical measurements on me but I’m not doing anything did you accept that as his decision did you frown on it from an evaluation standpoint because doesn’t
Want to compete do you understand that hey there’s more downside than side and if I had the same choice to make for myself I’d do the same thing they would how would you look at a player who shows up in Indianapolis but says I’m not
Going to do the drill yeah I think it’s clearly on a one-on-one uh depends perspective I do think this and I do understand I think the Marvin Harrison case and you mentioned he’s not going to run at the combine but I’m not sure that
He’s going to run ever and that is a red flag for me if he decides not to run at his workout Day saying I’m just going to play football scouts are conditioned to say and and to believe this and most of the time it’s true guys that can run
Want to run guys that can’t run fast don’t want to run and so that’s always a factor as well so there’ll be some challenges to that stance if that’s what he takes I truly understand quarterbacks in fact I wrote this for the athletic today when quarterbacks come to Indi and
Don’t throw if I’m a toprated quarterback I’m not really going to put myself out there because I think you the risk reward doesn’t isn’t is the the risk is that you’re throwing to players that you don’t know you don’t know the routes you’re going to run it’s a foreign it’s like going throwing
Passes in the park of guys that are neighbor kids just showing up throwing to you’re going to have a lot of Misses because these guys are going to run routes that are crazy uh the ball’s not out I’m ever I just think they stand to to gain blame for this at the
Quarterback position at other positions I don’t know that it ever hurts to work out and and yeah you can say you don’t train for the drills well the drill work is different than and the three cone and the shuttles and all that I can understand not doing all that stuff but
I’m going to come catch passes and run routes those are things I’ve been doing my whole life so there’s there’s kind of pros and cons depending on the uh where you probe into these workouts and how much is valuable for players how much I’m putting my risk on my future if I’m
A a prospect kind of just depends I guess is the short answer um there aren’t a lot of guys that can do what Marvin Harrison JR could do and get away with it though is there a point where you’re you’re so good a prospect you’re so clean a prospect
Maybe you can get away with that and and people are going to say well you might have a thought that as you just said if you can run you like to run you might have those thoughts but then you put on the film and say all right this is
Marvin Harrison Jr is pretty good is that going to affect his status all that much and I I there aren’t a lot of in other words Randy there’s not a lot of guys who can do that so do you do you take that into account when you say somebody
Maybe maybe isn’t as competitive however you want to praise it as you would hope he still has that work on the film that can be the case I think in this case if that is the theory I think he’s miscalculated because I’ve seen these other receivers and I know for a
Fact yeah yeah it is a great receiver group and I think three of them are going to go in probably the top 10 or 12 so there is a thin margin between him and others in fact like I said this is just my opinion I might prefer the
Washington kid at du Neighbors at LSU is going to be thought to be the best in some eyes because he’s the fastest is a whole bunch so there are uh depending on who you ask and your what your favorite flavor is it’s not a consensus around
The league now I know the media would like us to believe that Marvin Harrison is a generational player and that gets thrown out and I hate that term in once in a generation means once in a generation he’s one of three in this draft and I don’t think it’s a slam dunk
That he’s the first so I think that some of these decisions you make might have a little bit of a drag down effect because of that um Randy I know we specifically got you on talk about the out in Indianapolis but having been in the league as long as you have been I
Certainly want your opinion on this bill bich got fired this year maybe the greatest coach of all time in the history of national football he got fired and I’m not saying he shouldn’t have been fired I kind of agree with the Patriots decision to move on he didn’t
Get another gig and it wasn’t like timing was bad that he didn’t have the time to get out there he got fired early as soon as the Patriot season was over and done with pretty quickly so he had a chance to talk to all the teams that had
Coaching openings what does it say that bill bich didn’t get a job and was it a mistake by the NFL that no team hired him this off season well every team knows thems the best obviously we know about the dance he did with the Falcons I think in a lot
Of cases it’s not the most qualified guy who gets the job it’s the one that might make everybody who’s in the building the most comfortable and as we know Bill style is different than some he may press some people once he’s inside the building and and sometimes your
Reputation precedes you so um I think in the case of the Falcons they had a box that they kind of wanted to May bill just didn’t fit that box they have others in the building who you know I don’t want to say they guard their desk but let’s face it sometimes the
Personality is too much sometimes the voice is too loud and that makes people uncomfortable sometimes they hold others accountable that are are okay being mediocre so there’s a lot of factors in there I do think it’s sad that he’s not coaching um I would love to see Bill
Continue because I think he’s a great coach the GM part of it is a whole another story and topic I think that is is one that he would work fine with whoever if he has respect for that person and they can have a con consensus dialogue and I think that’s what’s
Important and there like I say there are just some that don’t want uh a loud voice or to be pushed and and that’s concerning for me because I see that in in a lot of different levels in the NFL at Randy muore make sure you get the underscore
At the end you could follow Randy on X uh formerly known as 12 does the football GM pod uh with Mike Sando does a tremendous job at the athletic uh you got your top threee agents there uh everybody should check that out um just wrote about Justin Fields the Chicago Bears and their
Decision uh entering the draft uh a lot of good stuff so check it out from Randy I always love talking you I thanks for giving us the time Randy I have to pick your brain on what happened here in Philadelphia with the coaching staff from the perspective and look they the
NFL PA team report cards came out Nick serani very highly regarded by the players Jeffrey Lorie very highly regarded as an owner I think everybody would agree with that what when you see that collapse and specifically offensively and how much success you had how do you
Weigh that when you have to move forward because the eagles they kept a lot of coaches but they brought in Kellen Moore they wanted fresh ideas new ideas that’s threading a small needle for my perspective Randy is that the way you would have handled things well two things one I hate to
That that sounds like a whole another show to be honest I know got another appointment in about 10 minutes so I apologize for having to cut short but having known Nick my whole time in San Diego when he was with us there yeah his personality is a little different he
Comes at it a little different um I do think there was a disconnect I do think changes had to be made um I think he and Howie worked together which is really good um I think hoe is is a great person for Nick to lean on but I do think now
They’ve kind of reshuffled the deck it’s going to be interesting because I think being a head coach or being a GM the biggest thing you can bring to the table is being able to fix stuff because things go wrong it is never like you draw it up and that’s in course of of
Being a decision maker at the top and maybe it’s managing people maybe it’s getting the best out of people maybe it’s letting people do their jobs all of these factors are in there and not being inside the building I think that sometimes is hard for the outside world
To understand but I do think this the pressure will be on Nick this year he’s got to find a way to connect um with not only his players but his coaching staff and I think those are the alarming things for me is that disconnect um there just seemed to be uh they weren’t
On the same page at all from the head coach’s office to the to the assist office to the planning office to every part of it and that’s a struggle when communication doesn’t when it seems so disjointed and that seemed to me what happened to it because they couldn’t fix
Any of the problems they had that’s concerning and maybe we’re going to lean on King Mor the problems this year during the season that’s fine but it doesn’t matter if you fix them it matters if you don’t fix them and then it comes back to the head coach check
Out the football GM podcast at the athletic always great when we get a chance to talk with Randy mu know you got another session popping up Randy thank you very much for your time with us here today thanks guys anytime let’s do it again soon thanks Randy if we can
Get him on we’ll always get him on because Randy Mueller brings insight and information every time he jumps in he’s MCM I’m McDonald you got M and macb bird 365 me thinks we’ll put a bow on this show
