EPISODE #176
Bob Winskowicz, Owner, Sqairz Golf joins the pod! With Bryce trapped in the Bermuda Triangle absolutely nowhere to be found, completely off-grid, Jake Morrow of Made For The Range subs to lends his knowledge.
Bob takes thee boys through some shoe tech, SQAIRZ new releases and some new signings to the SQAIRZ team including former world #1 David Duval.
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Three shots I just one birdie wo new driver repl M2 episodes Bob’s been on a few times with us before uh things are moving Bob things are moving uh quite a bit at squares golf thanks for making some time for us appreciate it I know you’re a busy guy but really appreciate you
Making time for uh for us like once every few months or so we usually get a little hockey a little golf chat in there but uh things are moving Bryce is moving right now he’s on a cruise ship somewhere in the like Bermuda Triangle or something I have not heard from him
In a few days so Jake’s here Jake’s here uh he’s gonna fill in Jake’s got an extensive kind of specifically with spikes background so he’s gonna be able to lend some to the chat here but Bob how things house squares golf how’s things going things are great um you
Know last year was a good year and uh We’ve uh we’re excited about 2024 and you know it’s it’s fun and it’s a challenge to always uh reinvent yourself to always come up with new technology and ideas and and then put them out and test them and see which ones are valid
And you know it’s interesting that if you can if you can design a shoe and pick up some performance gains little performance gains in certain areas of the shoe when you’re done designing at the end of it you can usually see some measurable gains because they all add up
Into something very positive so I’m really excited about this year and you know I’m going to make a very bold statement and hopefully by the end of this uh um I will convince you guys that it’s true but um I happen to think that we have built this
Year the best performing golf shoe that on the market I really believe it from a biomechanics perspective and from a literal performance perspective that we have built the best golf shoe that’s on the market so in the past Bob when you uh like when you say that when we’ve
Chatted one of our recent chats was right after I think it was my gopy went through and did all the uh all the rankings on those and squares finished up in the in third I believe in the overall ranking so it was first uh the it’s always kind of been the number one
Most stable golf shoe comfort’s always been there um traction all of those things have always been there so you mentioned like Reinventing yourself so have you changed much with this model so we’ve gone you know the arrow of the Bold the speed in the past and into the
New model that’s coming out in the uh in the coming weeks here yes yes and I’ll I’ll explain what I mean so here’s one of our new models this is called the Speed 2 and it is um it is the next version of our speed we look at things
Like the uh the midsole in a golf shoe and and to see how much energy returned with the ground is is captured by the midsole because a lot of people build up a very thick midsole and they call it cushioning well cushioning is another word for energy
Absorption and so the last thing you want to really do is absorb a lot of that ground force reaction that you’re creating with the with the ground so you’ve got to you’ve got to find that very that very difficult balance of cushioning for comfort and then uh without it without
Absorbing a lot of energy or Ground Force so we test this we’ve been in test market for about a year and a half on this new this new EVA foam midsole and you know it’s got the right amount of cushioning now it’s got um it it’s got some great energy absorption
Relative to the impact of your toes on the ground but it’s it’s really um it’s really designed for for performance so that’s one area the other area of the shoe is we look at energy loss in the shoe and the greatest amount of energy loss on a golf
Shoe is on the lateral side of the shoe and so you’ll see a lot on the lateral side expansion I don’t know if you can see well enough here on on here but you’d see like a an embossing here of a gear effect yeah I’ll drop Bob I’ll
Get a photo so as you’re as you’re explaining these I’ll get a photo and a couple clips and stuff that I can drop over so when people are are kind of um listening to your voice they can see it up close yeah so so the gear effect here
We emboss that when you emboss something like this this you really tighten the material in that area okay and so so this is this is what we call the modern day golfer shoe it’s got as you can see on the back of the shoe here all the way
Around it it’s got a carbon film and so that provides a lot of structure in this area of the foot coupled with up in the the top part here it uh with the gear effect it reduces expansion so the other challenge for well these are performance features so
If I can reduce expansion here it sends the energy up so that means you get good energy exchange with the ground instead of losing out the side of your shoes plus if you’re in a sill downhill lie what you’re going to do is you’ll feel the shoe actually your foot moving in
The shoe and expanding in this area and so to provide added structure in here is critical for S Hill downhill lies uneven surfaces and to reduce expansion in this area when you’re you know you know hitting the driver so there’s a lot to this and as you know we’ve got printed
Silicone on the laces again that brings the the top of the lace down I mean top of the shoe down secures it you never have to tie the laces again we’ve got a heel stabilizer that goes from the heel on the out external of the shoe down
Through the middle of the shoe and it gives you great art support so we’ve got art support we’ve got a heel stabilizer you’ve got the reduction and expansion here you’ve got the laces we made it a lot more breathable with this new lightweight material and we knocked
About 2 oun of weight out of the shoe so it’s something that as we look at a golf shoe we’ll rip a rip apart shoes we’ll look at features benefits we’ll look at materials we’ll look at their inherent nature of the materials and again it’s to to see where we can
Pick up little games such that that at the end of it we have some great efficiencies so when you’re when you’re talking about the design of a shop are you first so I have a couple questions about everything you just went over the first one is how are you how are you
Testing this outside of a physical human being wearing them on their feet because obviously like there’s got to be some sort of product development before the product is physically made right so like what are those what are those steps like what does that stuff look like it is it
A is it a material search is it a technology search is it a little bit of both like it walk us walk us through that kind of pre-process before a physical shoe is actually able to be held in your hands well you’ve got to first of all you’ve got to understand
The golf swing and what happens during the golf swing and you’ve got to understand the amount of pressure that you create with the ground so if some of the better players can create almost two times their body weight so if they weigh 200 lb they can create almost 400 lound of pressure uh
They measure that Newton so when you when you look at the the the structure of a shoe it’s got to withstand that type of pressure and that type of pressure you want to come vertically you want it to come back and forth and again you do have that that
Lateral motion too that you’ll shift your weight to the inside of your Trail Hil and shift everything back but you want to generate that pressure with the ground vertically and then take that and move it and shift it so you’ve got to look at materials that can withstand that kind
Of momentum and that kind of pressure so I I’m not a big fan of Brands out there that have lightweight meshlike uppers if you can hold a golf shoe by the heel and the toe and twist it throw it away throw it away you you it cannot facilitate the
Golf swing it is creating so many inefficiencies in your golf swing and this is all measurable because if you have something that’s literally expanding in those are your foot is moving in that shoe the materials are giving and it’s creating inefficiencies because if I can you know it’s kind of
Interesting and I I feel like I’m going down a rabbit hole here but I I listen to people talk about slicing the golf ball and everybody will say well that’s because your Club face is open during when you hit the ball but that’s not why
You slice the ball yeah it’s not why you slice it that’s the end result you know you slice the golf ball because of weight distribution all right now somebody will say well it’s because your arms are here your well your arms follow your body so if your weight is too much
In your toes your heels your left foot your right foot the inside the outside it is weight distribution that creates that face opening at impact so again when we look at shoes we look at the structure of it so we pick a material and we use the
Synthetic upper material that is used in in soccer and it’s the number one material used in soccer well why is that well because they cut quickly and there’s a lot of pressure put on that material back forth left and right and we know that a golfer they’re exchang with the
Ground and then the movements of getting the weight transfer from your Trail to your lead side that shoe needs to have the same amount of structure so we look at that then we look at the midsole material which we it’s it’s an EVA foam
And so we look at that and how much en energy absorbed how much cushioning and we can measure that we can put this through the rigers and we can measure that and then we can develop a field and we’ll do that testing that we walk on these things we’ll play golf on these
Things and we can test and find we can also do you know they call it short D measurements and things like that about the you know the responsive nature of the material and we do all that stuff so and then unlike the outsole we look at traction so this is an AI developed
Traction pattern all right now there’s over 290 points of contact on the bottom of this shoe now what does that mean if you you look at this it’s got a it’s got removable pivot cleats you’ve got six on each foot and those those cleats are strategically positioned on the bottom of the shoe
Where the greatest amount of pressure is exerted and then what we do is we supplement those with traction lugs at different heights in a rotational pattern so all of this together is something we look at traction we look at the elements we we look look at sill downhill lies we look at Wet
Surfaces um and and we we try to build a traction pattern that that can survive in pretty much all types of terrains so there’s a lot of thought that goes into every element we look at breathability we look at waterproof now again little nuances so we’re one of the
Only companies that sew the tongue in the inside you sew a gusset all the way from here to here on both sides of the tongue the tongue won’t move but the most important thing is most of the rain gets in from it coming down on the top
Of the shoe and working its way in through the tongue so we sew the gusset so no sand no water nothing can get in so this shoe is literally waterproof all the way up to here so we look at we look at all of this we’ve got the footed the inso in
There and we look at cushioning we look at where the cushioning is needed so there’s so much that goes into the design it’s uh it’s fascinating but you can look at it as SE separate components and how do I improve those components and then you look at how it all comes
Together and to make sure that it all produces a better product so is there is there any way to like I don’t know what the right word for this is but is there a way that you’re able to do some of that work digitally or do you just have
To start making combinations of traction and souls and and materials and like you know work baby steps up physically or is there is there any way you can do that work digitally or with any sort of like you know intelligence or anything like that before you have to start sewing
Material together yes yeah and we do a lot of that so and there’s there’s a lot of knowhow so our designer he’s um he spent the last 25 years in cleated Sports Just cleed Sports he worked for rebock New Balance uh puma and his last job
Before he came here he was the uh director of uh Innovation and design for FootJoy very cool that’s awesome so you know he’s got all of this years of Designing whether it’s baseball football soccer anything with a cleat on it he’s designed it so there’s a lot of nuances
That you learn and you know you you implemented you as you progress yeah that’s super cool because like I’ll talk to you know uh like I I have a pretty close relationship with the twons and I’ve talked to Sean Tu on about something like that and I’ve asked him
Like you know when you when you draw a putter on a napkin like it’s a cliche example but like when you draw a putt around a napkin like how do you know that that’s going to work and he’s like I’ve just I’ve been doing this so long
Jake that I can write something down or think of something in a notebook on my head and he’s like I can tell you within five grams how heavy it’s going to be when I make the first one he’s like and I can tell that just off of a picture
That I drew in a notebook so it’s like that’s cool that those people exist right and that you’ve obviously found one that’s been in the industry for a long time that’s awesome to have um Mac are you are you good if I keep firing away here on questions well I was gonna
If I can jump in for one second so you mentioned the designer you spent 25 years in foot where I’ve spent the last 10 minutes reading up on Eva so I could find out what it was because that’s how my brain how my brain work so so I’m
Back if anybody was wondering if I just left no I’m here it’s uh ethylene vinyl acetate so um definitely something that my brain works that way so I’m hoping a listeners works the same way so um EVA foam is something similar to like what you’re going to find in Crocs it’s Yeah
The more the okay so I guess Phil Knight was one of like The Originators of it or like the first people to first person to get it into a shoe so Phil Knight’s obviously from Nike most people know that so um well Phil Knight’s designer right right let give credit you know
That’s an interesting point yeah you know that quirky kind of guy from uh yeah let’s give him some credit here let’s not just pump Phil Knight for his money right right you know Phil Knight I a very interesting story is Phil Knight in his book The Shoe dog talks about one
Of the critical elements of Footwear design is opening up the toe box right so it’s allow you toes to SPL and splay means to open a right now when when when you think about a runner and they land on their toe their foot naturally wants to spread all that pressure down wants
To spread and if you’re angling the toes to the center of the shoe which most every golf shoe does and by the way squares was the first in the original to open up the toe box if you have your toes angled into the center of the shoe
Like this the only place they can go is round under but with our toe box and again one of the misconceptions of our shoe is that it’s a wide shoe all right it is not a wide shoe so think of the shoe in two areas when you put your foot into
The shoe above the above the outs soole so if you look at this shoe you can see the outsole hanging over here all right so we say we widen the base under the ball of your foot all we did is added more rubber here we added more of this
On the out sole such that you’ve got better balance and stability under the ball of your foot but up in here it’s a normal dwith shoe and when you establish width in a shoe it’s in the ball of your foot right in the ball of your foot on
The lot on the and the greatest width that’s where a d width is established you need an e width you got a wider foot double e so on and so so forth our shoe is a normal D width but what we did is from where the point is measured the
Width all the way up to the end of your toes we just opened up that toe box so it’s not a wide shoe we just gave you more room in the toe box now what does that do it gives you better balance better stability and allows your toes
Topl and it will give you a better sense and feel for the ground and then with that we were able to watch widen the base on of the ball of your foot and that too will give you better breaking better balance better stability but now the overall surface coverage of the
Ground is greater and so now you have better energy exchange with the ground now back to your point Jake is that all of this stuff is measurable we can put you on a pressure mat and in fact our testing is done by Terry Hashimoto who’s uh a fellow Canadian and
Uh he lives in PEI and he was a co-inventor of body track and so I can put you on a pressure mat and I can see where your weight distribution is just by you could be on with your current shoes we put our shoes on we can see
Weight distribution we can see Newtons of pressure that you create how much of that pressure you create initially how much you use when you’re hitting the ball how fast you move the weight from the the trail to the lead which is the key in hitting the ball a long way um we
Can measure we can measure your Trace line which is you know where you’re moving your balance your stability we can measure all of that so when we test things we always want to make sure that that any change we make helps the golfer play better Golf and we can
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Golf for 20% off plus free shipping we’ll see you in the ultra sphere very cool so I just kind of wanted to round off my point because Jake when you asked the initial question of um like kind of the R&D of the shoe um if you will so
Yeah the like the EVA foam midols specific is like it’s pretty cool if you dive into it if you’re interested um maybe I’ll try and remember to link it but like you can get some pretty cool information of like how it’s essentially like just beat up on a hydraulic press
Over years and now there’s more ways of modernizing it by you know injecting these like compounds and whatnot into the shoes but um it’s kind of neat how that like Works to be able to create like that substance so if anybody everybody would know Croc so like the
Middle of the square shoe is going to feel a lot like the Croc wood right now is that right Bob is that a good explanation I I’m not familiar with Crocs I don’t think I’ve ever worn a pair but uh you know you would know you
Know the name like Adidas calls it boost yeah you know and yeah everybody comes up with their own name for it uh proprietary name but it’s it’s it’s it’s the it’s it’s it’s Eva and it’s a foam now a fair amount of people don’t use it
Even though it’s the probably no it is it’s the best to use in a midsole I would say from my opinion all the there’s no doubt in 15 minutes of research that it is the best M that you can put together but I can tell you this
That it’s it it adds quite a bit onto the cost of a pair of shoes you’d be surprised okay from a cost of goods perspective it it takes the shoe up almost a dollar from a cost of goods is it just is it like based on kind of what
I was talking about like the the work that needs to be put in into to kind of because there’s different like there’s polymers and a lot of different things that we can get into that I’ve done in my I’ve learned in my 15 minutes of research but um if you it’s it’s just
Like more there’s more involved in it than just a typical rubber that you’re going to put on a shoe no question and everything has a responsive nature to it everything has um a degree of cushioning energy absorption you’ve got a look at these materials um sometimes you know
Sometimes you take a baseline chemistry or a polymer and you can change the characteristics of it and you know you can make it harder you can make it softer and again it’s all the testing to find that delicate balance of of the energy exchange with the ground and
Cushioning relative to comfort so Bob how is it lighter than this one you said it was two ounces lighter what’s made what’s I I assume that that compound with it being one of the new developments in the squares line that that’s attributed to it being less that pulled out about an
Ounce of weight right so so that right there is like a contributor to making the shoe lighter did you did you find in like some of your feedbacks some your customer feedbacks some your testing that the shoe was that it needed to be lighter you know it’s one of those
Challenges the answer is yes uh we had we launched this little over a four years ago and it was kind of the peak of that lightweight sneaker like material so everybody was after this spikeless lightweight sneaker-like shoe um and I I think it was really driven by the fact that people didn’t
Feel that the cleated product was comfortable um and you can’t have comfort in cleats which we’ve all proved to be incorrect um is that you can have both but the interesting thing is that as this peak was going on with this lightweight sneaker like stuff we were
Having people say hey can you you know we find your shoe to be heavy now we’re in about a 17 ounce range and the tour 360 the PRL bunch of the G gallivant was heavier and but one of the things is that think of it this way if you take weight on one
Side and structure on the other is if you take and you want to increase structure in a shoe you increase weight you want to reduce structure you take out weight and so when we talk about structure and the materials we use on the lateral on the medial side you can’t twist this
Shoe and and the structure up in here is second to none and and so you’ve gonna have to you’re gonna have to put weight in the shoe to give a golfer better performance characteristics now I I really believe and I have no trouble saying this golfers was sold to bill of goods
With those spikeless lightweight sneaker like shoes yeah they were sold to bill of goods I have I have learned as much uh recently I uh obviously my information like admittedly is is slightly biased because it’s literally Spike company but it’s yeah I I’ve learned a lot about it
From a technical point of view and that actually kind of leads me into M did you you had something else I don’t want to cut go ahead you’re good you’re good you’re good I’m good so the one of the specific questions I want to ask you is
Like I tell people a lot that I think the selection of Spike that you play on the bottom of your shoe is very similar into how you select a club grip where the one that comes on your shoes is not the one you’re stuck with first off that’s a huge
Misconception and secondly there are there’s different needs for different types in different situations even right like it can get pretty hairy that way um so walk me through a little bit of of your philosophy of a everything is spiked you don’t have a spike with
Option and B for the new one why you chose to go six spikes like you kind of hinted on it that that’s the most pressure but you know there’s there’s some spikes that have nine right like nine is a very common number so why’ you
Go six and why did you pick uh why did you pick pivix as the kind of like stock option for for the shoe you know I have seen um so I’ll start with the pivots back when we we started this I tested a lot of the spikes
And I I I I just saw and I had a personal preference of the pivix I just saw better better connection to the ground in different situ situations um I would I would say it this way that I don’t think and I’m not saying this because you’re on this call
But soft spikes make a bad Spike I I don’t I I don’t but situational design exactly the design of our shoe and the supplemental traction so I’m going to answer your questions in in one one F hoop here is that so with with our traction pattern and the supplemental
Lugs we don’t need to put nine cleats on here we want to give you we want to give you Traction in the greatest areas where we see the most of pressure exerted on the ground so if we can do that that’s where you need the greatest amount of connection and
Traction but then we can supplement and all of these Nubs are at different heights and they start around the cleat at of almost the same height and then reduce and expand in certain areas um but again we we didn’t need to put n the more you put um you know you’re going to
Start you’re going to need to rotate your foot during the swing it’s got a natural rotation particularly on your Trill foot when you want to yeah rotate it up onto the toe your front foot is going to rotate slightly you can’t just cement your feet into the ground you’ve
Got to have some kind of movement yep so traction can be accomplished with this kind of of dual traction pattern now again the pivx um at the time we found to just test out in this design in our AI design traction pattern it tested out the best and the nuances
Were very slight I’ll be honest with you very very slight but I had the preference of this I will tell you that the new Spike that’s out out there the one they’re pushing the hardest on yeah um you know I’ve I’ve I’ve heard things about you know greens Keepers aren’t too
Happy with some of them and I’ve heard some things and you know so so look you know you you’ve got to be careful um because although you you want to design and you want to provide tra you got to be careful about any kind of extenuating circumstances that can hurt the brand so
We look at all that stuff yeah for sure no I mean so like to me it’s it’s very comparable like pivix to me is such a um it’s a it’s a meat of the bell curve Spike which I think is why it’s it’s so
Great for like a stock option on a on a spike because I think a lot of people are going to find plenty of traction out of that Spike and then if somebody decides that they need more they have options to go to if they need more right
It’s nobody’s going to say they want less I don’t think I think that would be a weird situation for people to say they want less traction out of their shoes but I think if like you know if somebody needs needs more or ends up in like really crazy conditions like a that’s
Just in general like that’s that’s part of the decision to go to replaceable Spike instead of going spikeless right like you you don’t have that flexibility with spikeless I mean and obviously you know there’s a myriad of other problems with Spike list but for me that’s a big
One like I like to be able to change things if I need to and just at least have the option to do it um and I have like my shoes now that I’m playing when I go play outside and like normal conditions I have two sets of spikes now
On mine where I put I put pivix in the the trail foot toe and then I use uh tour Flex Pros pretty much everywhere else um and it’s nice because it gives me that rotational ability without feeling stuck because I went to um it wasn’t before tourx Pros I was
In something it just felt like I was stuck right like I loved the amount of connection I had to the ground but it was like I I couldn’t everything was up down right I had no lateral ability and it felt like my ankles were very constrained like there was no rotational
Ability in that so it’s cool that you say like you know part of this process is testing that out making sure that what you offer somebody out of the box is is tested it’s going to work it has a point for like you know your answer
Could have been and might you know be you could have been like wow that was the cheapest thing we could throw on it which the difference the difference in spikes is is you know it’s not that much anyhow but like it’s nice to know that there’s you know there’s R&D behind even
Something as simple as like what what Spike are we going to choose from a brand no question about it in fact when I started a design of this shoe I went to the designers and I said I want you to build me the most expensive golf shoe
You can build me and they almost fell off the chair and they both told me that it’s the first time anybody ever said that to them because what happens is they go out and they design a shoe they hand it off to the marketing guys and they say well
We’re going to price it out here so I need you to take this out that out this and they start taking things out to hit cost so I figured if I went to them and said I want you to build me the most expensive shoe that put the best
Components in that put the best of everything and that’s what I was after um so you know the spikes are very important in a shoe the traction pattern is very important and you know I am I am not a fan of a spikeless golf shoot at all and I think it has really
Hurt the game and I I believe I can prove that um and I was looking at statistics of the average of of the last 10 years of the driving distance of a tour pro and I think the average driving distance has only gone up about seven or
Eight yards in the last 10 years you know uh yeah over that period And I think it was uh the numbers were from L year I think my golf bu published that the driving distance and Aros did a test of double digit millions of swings and they looked at the last five
Years and driving distance went down by a half a yard now why think about that how is it possible the driving distance went down by a half a yard with all the innovation in shaft technology and clubs and head technology and grip technology and ball technology and all that yeah
Now I believe that when when you analyze somebody’s golf swing where does distance come from it comes from your interaction with the ground and that’s the that’s where swing speed is created it’s your interaction with the ground how much pressure you put on it how much pressure you put on on it and
Then how much pressure pressure you use during the swing and the difference between the two is what we call postural control which is a fancy word for stability stability means controlling your body throughout em motion so if I can control your body consistently throughout a motion you will hit the
Ball straighter and farther but I contend that the loss of distance was because spikeless golf shoes got up to about 60% market share and now it’s in the last couple of years it’s Fallen backwards it’s starting to come back down because of of of the lack of structure
And performance of those golf shoes uh I contend that’s why the average golfer is losing distance I contend some of us are getting a little bit older Bob all right so speak for yourself but some of us can’t swing the the club as hard as we
Used to be but that that is true you know what but you know golfers the pro golfers pro golfers they’ll tell you this that the clubs are regular ated the shaft is regulated the ball is regulated you know they want to roll back the distance on the ball and this
And that where do they find distance from where do they find it they find it from using the ground better yeah and you know it’s it’s just it’s the same thing every time that they talk about is how do I use the ground better now yeah
I’m just giving you Bob like I I’ve been I’ve been lucky enough to to have that conversation with Terry Hashimoto and explaining so back in the archives of the Pod summer Terry came on chatt with us about uh Square specifically and the body track Matt he’s um I believe
He’s like the inventor of the body track right coinventor yeah yeah so he was explaining um so we’ve had Ryan Holly on the past um one of the best mindes in golf with the swing Catalyst map and like talking about the different placements and spikes and stuff and
Terry did a lot of the R&D for squares and the specific components and the specific placement of the spikes was where our feet are having the most pressure points on the ground throughout the golf swing so that’s why some of them might have nine um some of them might have less some of
Them don’t have spikes at all but from Terry’s research and what he backed through the Square’s development like the R&D that you guys put into it those were the six most uh generated pressure points on the foot through the golf swing so um I think that kind of like
Answers Jake’s question a little bit but I I do think like as a consumer we like the ability and and everybody is starting to exercise the ability to be able to swap things in and out so having a good stock option I said this to Joshua Haywood when I was looking at
Their wedges one day uh for like a buddy of mine they have like the High Rev 2.0 Jake so this is your world right pretty decent like stock KBS shaft it’s like a you know they have a couple other options that go in there too and I said
To them I was like that’s a great option to be able to give um as your stock to a lot of people who just want to like pick up a wedge and maybe they aren’t going to know all their specs or what shaft they’re going to use if they use an S400
Or whatever it may be so I think having the pivix in there is something that’s a really good starting point for golfers that they’re going to enjoy that like when they put on that it’s not going to first of all it’s not going to be uncomfortable like you said Bob is not
Going tear up any of the greens or anything like that which truly I think is just people like recognizing where they are and walking with a different you know you walk around the hole sometimes you see like marks all around the hole and stuff like that that could
Be in soft spikes that could be in like Birkin stocks it doesn’t really matter if people are going to walk like that they’re going to tear up the green but I think like the pivix is a really good option that’s really comfortable for people really comfortable for golfers
And that will allow them a good starting point they can develop even further and that’s a great thing about having pair of squares on is there’s not much more technology that we’ve heard of into a golf shoe than what you guys have put into it so having that option to kind of
Move those things out is great as well I want to show you another shoe that we’re launching and this one is the culmination of almost two years of testing and it’s been tested with long drive Champions uh it’s been testing on a PGA Tour and this is what we call the
Vlo and it is a really goodlook shoe but there’s so much science in this so if you can focus in remember I was telling about the energy greatest amount of energy losses on the lateral side right all right so the objective in in golf Footwear is you you hope to make the
Foot one with the shoe and you don’t ever want the foot to be moving in the shoe ever so some of the critical components although it’s not talked about a lot I I would tell you that the lacing system and bringing the Upp or down on the top
Of your foot to reduce the foot moving as as important as the as as the cleats and traction system because if your foot is moving in the shoe it creates so many inefficiencies you get stuck on one side of the other and uh so with this
Shoe um this is the first ever speed rated shoe so when you think of shafts when you think of golf balls and speed rating and this is for the guy that swings over 100 miles an hour oh so this is this is something that anybody with a high swing
Speed well you know that quote they can they swinging out of their shoes they be about that because this here is a material it’s a proprietary material that’s it’s almost what titanium was to metal woods oh it’s it’s lighter and it’s almost like a film but what it does is it reduces the
Expansion in this area but then as you can see on the top of the shoe the material comes up and it has these very unique lace Keepers and so this is what we call the lace lock system so this is an integrated system here that that as you pull this these
Laces it brings the upper material down comfortably this has this expands just on the top portion right in here so it forms to your foot so now now that energy is being directed upwards so it’s directional ener we can we can measure via heat mapping how much
Energy comes out the side of your shoe and we can take and by doing that we can reduce it and what it does is it sends it up and down vertically instead of out the side of your shoe so this is for anybody with a high swing
Speed um it’s it’s somebody that plays on terrains that have like in Ireland or wherever that is very hilly very very you know uneven lies because your weight if you’re a heavier person you know above say 200 pounds you put a lot of lot of pressure on the side of that
Shoe you know when you’re standing on an uneven Lon that shoe is giving and so we sought out to provide a performance golf shoe for those people who have elevated swing speeds in tour Pros speaking my language that’s and and people like me over 200 pounds and can’t
Hit a fairway and are constantly on un even you don’t the swing you don’t meet the swing speed requirement M right that’s why we sent Bryce a pair of squares and you a you you you a pair of trul links we don’t want you wearing our shoes we only want good players
Oh ask brce where the cash comes when Bryce and I play his handicap can be whatever it could be I don’t keep track of that stuff anymore really but uh put a couple bucks on the line and I’ll uh I’ll take it down no problem at all but
Yeah yeah a new guy shows up when you put a couple bucks on the line right you know Bob when you when you talk about those laces what is what’s your opinion if you if you have one or like just thoughts on um stuff like the boa system right
Like the boa system like that’s kind of the the theory of the boa system right is like even pressure coming down on the top of your foot am I am I wrong there is that something that you guys looked at did you try it did you think about it
I did I did now um because I hate four years ago uh boa had two different types of systems and it really didn’t do a good job of pulling the upper and the top part down okay um we looked at it and it was creating buckling in the material at the time I
Will tell you this that they’ve gotten a lot better they’ve gotten a lot better but I am not a fan of them I’m not a fan of that system Goa um um I I think it’s the way that it pulls in um and pulls down I just um I think it puts a
Little stress a little pressure on some points of the foot that you don’t really want it and and you know I I could tell you that from just personal observation I haven’t done literal testing on that but I was never a big fan plus it was
Adding a fair amount of cost to the shoe yeah and I and we sought out a better way to solve that problem and uh at at a more affordable price yeah very cool one of the things Jake if you haven’t worn the shoes um we’ll we’ll get you into a
Pair they’re uh the laces are it’s Unique and it’s like it’s kind of as soon as you pull it tight it’s there like obviously you’re going to Loop and swoop and pull you’re going to do all the other good stuff but but when you when you pull its tight the like the
Foot is just secure it’s incredibly secure in the shoe like it’s it yeah so we print silicone on the top of the lace so when it comes through the eyelet it kind of locks it in place oh that’s super cool and uh you shouldn’t have to ever tie your shoe again throughout the
Round that’s awesome I had my pair around here somewhere I don’t know where they are pair of laces around here somewhere but uh Jake I’ll show you them it’s cool like when you it it feels like when you kind of first like tighten up that b system and then it just like just
It’s just there just doesn’t it grips it doesn’t let it go it’s it’s really neat um Bob can we talk about the uh if we got a few minutes can we talk about the team a little bit you got some expanding members of the team so can we go through
Kind of some of the uh some of the players you guys that squares has in the lineup right now yeah you know it’s uh today’s a good day we just did a fress release we um well let me back up we uh you know we’ve
Got CERN Nick who is you know our icon he’s been with us now for about four years and uh David Duval it just kind of he fits that that mold for us um I am sad to say that Seth stcker is no longer with us we were negotiating a
Contract with him and you know after you win a couple of times you play on The rder Cup team the price of Poker goes up and uh you know um he’s a he’s a he’s a a good guy great to work with but they all have agents and um you know they
Agents get paid on the deals they do and so uh it’s unfortunate but um you know the way he’s playn maybe he’ll be back sooner than we thought but um anyway um but one of the areas that I I focused on you know we’ve got Mark alova David
Duval and you know when we look at our demographic it’s uh it’s it’s a it’s a male above the age of 40 and they resonate with those type of guys um we we are in discussions right now with two gentlemen um one who has um won on tour
Be playing in the shoes next week another one was sent a pair today and you will know both of them I just can’t reveal it right now because I’m not sure we’ll sign both or either or um but um yeah we’re gonna have a a I’m I’m excited to get there’s one in
Particular I’m excited to get and uh I think it’s I think it’s going to happen but one of the areas I focused on when I started this is the closest per when you think of the the pyramid of influence in golf They everybody says it’s the tour
Pro the tiger the John ROM and all of that and that’s what gives you that presence and that validation and you know then underneath that is the instructor the instructors out there the icon they say they’re the closest to the golfer of anybody you know and so I
Focused on instructors and we just did a press release today we just signed uh David lead better uh and we’ve Jim mlan Rick Smith David Leed better Mark imman Bobby clampet Todd col some good young guys like Jake thurm Taylor Crosby um but we’ve got a portfolio of probably over 30 of
These very very good qualified legitimate instructors these aren’t the guys online and selling lessons for $6.99 you know these are the the true and and these guys spend their whole life trying to help people play better golf so when they endorse a product they’ll take the product they’ll play
With it they’ll wear it all day they’ll do testing they’ve got all the sophisticated equipment and uh they’ll put it through its Paces yeah that’s kind of like that’s very aligned with kind of your your Square’s Mission if you will like that makes a lot of sense
To me knowing you for a few years now kind of the the way that you discuss the brand and having some of the world’s top instructors wearing it and endorsing it and playing in it um another another kind of world that you’ve touched in is like the world long drive too and there
Is a huge uptick in World long drive along with like the all of the analytics that are going into the you know the the long drive world the long drive swing there’s a huge market for like pressure mapping and stuff like that in the world
Long drive so I assume that i’ I’ve seen quite a few players hitting in squares I assume like there’s a couple that are on your team um but is that something that you’re starting to a path that you’re starting to look down to a little bit
Bob you know I really haven’t placed a lot of emphasis on that um I tell I met some great people who are out there doing that and it’s fun it’s a great part of the game that I think a lot of us like to watch and um I don’t think
Many of us can relate to those people they freaks of nature I mean the swing speed the ball speed the distance they hit it I mean it it’s it’s hard to imagine somebody hitting a ball that far and you know it’s interesting last year
We had um Connor K we had Kelly rney who Kelly is from Canada up there she won the woman’s division we had Justin James and and Kelly and then Connor Connor won the junior she won the woman and and uh um you know battled that weekend too
Yeah yeah and justtin you know it it it was fun to have uh three trophies in that one event uh people wearing squares but again it’s it’s I don’t know how much people really can relate to those people because of their their their talents and you know in some cases they’re using longer
Shafts different types of Clubs and MH and um so you know I I’m a big fan of it I’ll support any player we probably have 10 to 12 people out there wearing but it’s not like one of the areas that I’m Focus yeah I just notice how much it’s growing
Lately right and how much um how much research is going into just that World by the golfers right and that kind of seems to you know align with with your brand a little a little bit as well but but you’re right it’s a different golf swing it’s a it’s
Kind of a different world but like we just talked about with the with the new model that you have coming out it seems like it might be you know specific for the Justin James type of hit not or not specific sorry it might be it might
Enhance the swing of a guy like Justin James 100% because you know what you know if they can pick up another mile an hour in swing speed that’s three and a half yards stre spe half yards I mean to them that’s the difference of you know
It it’s huge and and you know of I think of most people that play golf those guys are probably more in tune with Ground Force and and absolutely you know I I I tell people anybody listen to me that you should go out and and when you take
A lesson get on a pressure mat pressure mats are to this day I still think that the best piece of equipment out there for swing uh you know for for analyzing a swing because a a pressure mag can tell you a distribution weight distribution your front foot to your left foot the front
Of your foot to the back of your foot where you are and different they call it P1 P2 different points during the swing they can tell you where your weight distribution is that can measure it can tell you where your Trace line is as you go back and as you come through it’s
Some of the most incredible information that I believe is is little nuances that um can have the greatest impact on your swing you know one of the things I mentioned before was this word postural control and I can’t tell you enough about that is that the greatest difference between an amateur player and
A tour pro is postural control and postural control is your ability to control your body so that’s just a fancy terms of saying consistency so if you can control your body consistently and repeat that time and time again you know people like us will
Go out and shoot in the front side 36 on the back we’ll shoot 56 you know um and and you know the tour play player is not going to do that he’ll go out and shoot 36 36 or you know 28 39 whatever it is you know uh but again it’s their ability
To control their body and that all begins with balance and stability and that’s the thing that we did our mission statement is this our premise if I can improve your balance and stability you will hit the ball farther and straighter simple love that and that’s what we do with our Footwear yeah it’s
Clean it’s it’s a good mission statement man I love that yep Jake you go ahead jump in there if you got one more yeah I mean I think so before we wrap up and like obviously I want I want to hear the details on the new stuff like you know
Release date pricing colors all that stuff that’d be great um but I’ve been I’ve been thinking in my head this whole time just like the way we talked about the spikes earlier and like this is just so fresh in my mind obviously because I’m I’m partnering with soft spikes this
Year and like so it’s just I think about it way more often than I should um what is there trying to figure out the right way to to phrase this um is is there any is there any danger in in a player switching to a different spike
From a from a characteris of like how you designed the shoe is is there is there a way that changing those six spikes out could actually mess up like how you have researched and designed and engineered that shoe or is it is it safe like that’s never that’s not a question
I’ve ever even asked or like is it just safe for people to try out different spikes and play whatever ends up being comfortable for them yeah no no I I can’t let’s just say known entities like if I was going to take all of uh soft
Spikes spikes and put them in and take them out I don’t think you know I I don’t there’ be no change I think um okay no no no um you know I’ve played around with different spikes and played in them checked cushioning checked traction checked a
Lot of and and I didn’t see I just at some point got to choose one and it and and there could be little nuances that you appeal to you but I don’t see much differences um in performance if I was to change him out no well I think it’s like we’ve kind
Of noted a couple different topics where it’s like more of the very elite players in the world may notice those types of things and those little nuances like you’re mentioning there Bob I don’t know if I don’t know if there’s no question aside from being like maybe extremely
Wet or um extremely dry even like we as a you know a regular golfer uh we might not notice that as much so but yeah I know where you’re going with that question Jake like is that such a because it is such a specifically designed pattern if you’re changing it
Is it going to adjust like the the playability of the shoe right well that’s that’s yeah like my my thought there is like you know you look at adjustable drivers when those started coming out and you know I I in encourage people to to mess with those adjustments
But like there’s also you know there’s there’s an Asis on that encouragement because like hey like you you you might make an adjustment there that’s going to make it worse right like there’s ways to make that driver worse in your hands because of an adjustment you made so it
Was just I was like man I wonder if that’s anything I was I was assuming right like with the research behind the spikes and stuff like I know very well that obviously like there’s different types of spikes sold because they do have differences right but like it’s the same thing as
You know why is why is the Honda Accord over the Honda Civic a different vehicle right like it’s it’s that kind of comparison where like it’s not crazy different but like the right person will notice the nuances and it’s the same thing as you know different Technologies
Throughout golf of like when when the right person makes the right change that’s when you understand why that other product exists right like that’s the point there so yeah no it’s cool it was just a random thought no no no it’s a great question um I don’t think I’ve
Ever been asked that before but it but but I’m just trying to work through everything in my head and there’s nothing that would change now and and you know the other thing too there’s two other points i’ make on this is that uh if if uh people do their homework uh traction and
Dispersion you know distance dispersion all play in the traction you know there studies done there was a Pinehurst study done by soft spikes many years ago and they test it spikeless versus a a spike shoe and uh you know they was seeing about five or six yards of distance
Gains uh or losses if you were changing to a spikeless shoe and when I say spikeless I’m referring to a non- removable cleat so uh Mac uh I’m I’m just fully admitting this up front if you want to clip this for me because I’m going to be
A sponsor wh right now um so here’s those stats that he’s talking about perfect right there’s those stats um I I Bob like so that’s that’s actually what got me hooked on this whole thing right because I’m also a person that like will immediately call out stats and
Be like all right what testing parameters did you use to make those stats happen or whatever right um and that was the dispersion thing I’m so glad you brought that up the dispersion thing to me was so killer because it makes a lot of logical sense that you’re
Able to swing the club faster if you feel more attached to the ground and you’re using the ground better right like that for a lot of people very easy to understand but for people to understand and I I wrote it I wrote what you said down the
Postural control thing I’m going to use that in a bunch of stuff thank you for that um but like the the consistency of how you’re able to move the body through the golf swing and your ability to use the ground to accomplish that is like my final connection of what I’ve
Been searching for to talk about the dispersion gains that you also get out of spiked versus spikeless which is super cool so I’m so glad you said that because it was like the final connect point for me and it’s you know distance and accuracy is determined by a weight distribution it’s determined distance
And accuracy is because if your arms follow your body then the only way that your dispersion is going to be is because you’re your body is oriented in a position whether it’s the weight do too much in your toes your heels you whatever and and I take what you just
Said which you’re exactly right is that everything emanates from the ground um it it is the in your interaction with the ground if you just draw a box around that place that’s that’s where it all happens and if you don’t have that now I want to bring up one
Last point and U so two weeks ago well about a little over a year ago we took the very same design and all we did is we changed the traction pattern on the bottom of the shoe and we created baseball shoes and and so for the last uh almost
Year and a half we’ve had shoes out in test Market in the world of baseball and um we now have o over 80 major league baseball players training in our shoe and about 10 months ago the American College of ankle and foot surgeons associate assciation they did a study on the performance of
Footwear baseball shoes on the baseball players and we were one of the test subjects it was our shoes against everybody else’s and I will send you this study when we’re done but they proved they they proved that in over 60% of the players showed an increase in
Exit velocity of over 2 mil an hour now exit velocity is how fast the ball comes off the bat and for every one mile an hour it’s about 10 feet of distance so all they did all they did was change their shoes that’s it and they saw the increases of over 2
Miles hour ex 60% in over 2 miles hour exit velocity so that’s a medical study that’s medical study so if people don’t think Footwear makes a difference in sports they’re they’re wrong and you know it’s it’s your only connection to the ground absolutely yeah I think people
Sor go ahead Jake the most I think the most you talk about Footwear usually is in is in running sports right like soccer Footwear is heavily heavily talked about basketball Footwear is heavily heavily talked about but you know when it comes to like you know baseball obviously like the dudes got to
Move they got to run they got to field but I I don’t you don’t hear about Footwear that often in in baseball um football like you hear about it but you don’t hear about it the way that we’re talking about it right like about it no like somebody wore two different colored
Cleats and now they’re getting fin something mostly the only thing you hear about in football is that it got lighter right that’s all ever hear about a football CLE right so no that’s very that’s that’s incredible I’m a the the one thing I always get told by
Instructors is I use the ground W but that’s because I played I played soccer and baseball my whole life so like I’m I’m so used to having to work the ground and it’s it has helped my go swing me right like I’m you know I’m 5’7 on a
Good day swinging at 115 and it definitely it definitely helps it’s pretty good yeah now Bob I know we ran over a bit of time here we don’t want to take up too much of your night but uh I just had a quick look all three of our
Teams are in the playoffs right now so if anybody tun tuned in for the uh the hockey banter here we’re you I should be eating crow right now because I was giving you guys a good razin the last time we’re on you know about the Bruins and then they get into
The playoffs and they lose you know oh just I mean they just I I was just so this year I am cautiously Optimist I’m not saying anything D I’m a I’m a Blackhawk fan wait wait wait yeah I just realized that after I said that Jake’s a
Blackhawk fan that was so dark I’m sorry man yeah but bu that was just like you didn’t have to you guys have Bard whatever like’s back now yeah he’s back I’m going to the game on I’m going to the game on Sunday actually there you go
I went to I went to the first Bard’s first game at the United Center and he scored like 10 seconds in so pretty electric player so I’m sorry he’s still leading the rookie race I know I don’t know where I went with that out for a
Month I don’t know where I was going with that I know you’re from Chicago but whatever I don’t feel bad for you you just you did okay here’s if you just Associated me with the Red Wings then we have big problems no defin I think that’s what you just did no man never
Never you were thinking Red Wings said all of our teams made the playoffs and you were 100% thinking Red Wings I’ll uh I’ll never confirm or deny but uh BR that’s bry’s issue oh you guys I’m telling it so Bob can we uh can we just
Get like a bit of a do you have an exact release date yet have you have you popularized that yet yeah March one March one uh we’re going pre-sale March one to the public on March one and uh and they’re going to start shipping around the 10th to the 14th somewhere in
There perfect so this one this one’s up about a week right before so that’s a great time um I’m going to have a link in the description in the show notes below so you can go right over there check out squares squares golf if you’re listening most people listen to the pods
If you’re listening in the car what not please stop the car whatever it is pull over have a look through the uh have a look through them um place an order what’s the uh price point we’re looking at for the new uh the new models so the
New speed new Speed 2 is 179 okay the uh the pr S2 which we didn’t really talk a lot about very clean uh this is 199 okay and then the V is uh 2 219 okay I I am very pleased to say that I had a great meeting up there in Canada
We met with GF town and um we’re finishing up some things but I expect to be in uh in Canada distribution uh this year love that I was talking with Kyle a couple weeks ago at the tonal golf show so I know that you guys were talking
About the PGA show so um yeah looking forward to kind of getting that up here and and as always when when that pops back up I’ll uh I’ll go in there and knock up the display or something like that I’ll mess it up a little bit or
Something for you and send you some good content for it but uh Bob we always appreciate it um always kind of appreciate the in-depth conversation about shoes because it’s not something that we get that often which is uh which is really cool and I know that this has
Been a really good one Jake really appreciate your input I know this is kind of your world right now so this is fun yeah we’ll uh we’ll have to do it again sometime sry we R LP but I appreciate the no listen it’s always a pleasure I could probably talk to you
Guys all night I I lost all track of time it’s enjoyable and Hey listen congratulations on you know your growth and and the episodes and you know um good things happen to good people and you know if it wasn’t for you guys um People Like Us wouldn’t have a voice out
There to in front of golf so thanks for what you guys do I really appreciate it you heard it here first David Duvall would not be with squares if it wasn’t for the Pod right pretty much that’s what I said that’s probably where I heard that word for word yeah
But uh pretty much verba him but no Bob same to you guys man it’s like absolutely incredible we’ve been probably chatting for three years now texting back and forth um it’s it’s just really great to see the success that you guys have David Duval is one of my
All-time favorites so really cool uh really cool to kind of see that working for you guys and hopefully we uh we hear about who these you know a couple of these new players might be in the next little while so congratulations you guys as
Well I lose a ball and I re up I miss a fairway I probably end up in the ocean or maybe the beach and I’m on a five and I’m to go reach it second was blind I see it feel like it might be scenar
