I got 976th place, I told you I’m the best – Matthew Johnson

Matthew Johnson shares his personal journey from small-town Iowa to becoming an ultra-runner and fitness fiend. He discusses his love for trail running and the challenges he has faced in completing 100-mile races.

02:15 Growing Up in Small Town Iowa
04:07 Discovering Running and Moving to Austin
11:19 Finding Inspiration in David Goggins
27:00 Taking Risks and Betting on Himself
35:07 Late Race Survival and Overcoming Challenges
40:06 Training Techniques for Strength and Endurance
41:01 Strength and Mobility Training
50:22 The Benefits of Mobility Work
53:40 Different Approaches to Training
56:34 Mental Toughness and Overcoming Challenges
59:06 The Power of Self-Talk and Belief
01:07:16 Finding Humor and Confidence in the Face of Pain
01:13:15 Gratitude for the Ability to Push Limits

Well welcome to the dfl before dnf podcast this is uh my personal pursuit to success at the 100 mile distance I’ve been in the sport for 10 years I love it maybe more than anyone you’ve met like I’m obsessed with it I I’m obsessed there’s something

Magical to me about putting the 100 mile distance on my radar like that there’s always one I’m signed up for I’m always looking forward to I just I love what it means on to me you know in my own head like that feels just like a crazy accomplishment but I’m also the worst

That you’ve ever met I have uh dnfed seven of eight attempts at the 100 mile distance and I don’t care I I’m still I I love it but this series that I’m working on trail Grid it’s it’s my you know it’s it’s my ninth attempt lucky

Number nine I’m going back for Zion I love Zion I love the desert I just wanted someday like ever Roose is like this Utah character who when he was 19 disappeared in the desert and they never found him again like I I wouldn’t mind if that happened to me uh but this time

I think I represent a lot of people who who go out there because they love it but they’ve got kids they’ve got day jobs and we sometimes we often to the line undertrained so my Pursuit this time is I’m just reaching out to uh experts to people

Who can give me some wisdom give me some insight on on how to survive the late race urge to quit and so you have come on my radar because you just keep popping up on my Instagram and uh because you are focused on strength and the 100 mile distance and that’s super

Rare like there’s more and more like I see more and more Fitness like you know people doing more upper body stuff and and and ultr running more than ever I think of Mike mcnight Utah guy he seems to be posting a lot of like strength work that he’s doing but in the end

There’s still we don’t always have time for it we’re trying to do these M weeks or even 60 70 mile weeks we don’t have time for it and so that’s why I’m stoked to come to Austin to talk to you and thank you for making the time to come

Talk to us glad glad you guys are here so before we go too far I want to just get to know you a little bit as a person um I mean clearly you know even just watching you like the since the first since I first found you on Instagram to

Now like you know you you’ve more than 2x your followers on Instagram it seems like content T ton of Engagement so tell me a little about about who you are like we’ve just met 5 minutes ago so tell me about you um Small Town Iowa boy uh really yeah so I

Was raised uh was born in Iowa super small town raised for about six seven years in fville Arkansas where the University of Arkansas is um moved back to Iowa uh my 10th grade year spent 10th 11th and 12th grade back home um town so small we didn’t even have stop lights

What town uh meltra Dallas Iowa middle of a cornfield M melt Dallas Mel Dallas so there was two towns one was called melt one was called Dallas in between and then and then they they find you know 50 60 70 years ago they built a bridge in between the two over over railroad

Tracks and they merged it into melt Dallas so it’s melter D Dallas okay um no stop lights uh graduating class was 29 um closest Walmart was like 15 20 minutes away dang what what did your parents do what did your parents do for

Work uh my mom worked as a um like a CMA so a certified Med Aid at a nursing home um my dad was never in the picture Okay um both my grandparents uh were uh my grandfather was a doctor at the VA which was in De Mo which was yeah how far is

That um about an hour okay um so they would commute an hour a day or two hours total to to to get to work grandparents yeah did that and so my grandparents and my mom both kind of co- raised me mhm um it was just small town liveing I mean if

You took a drone and you went up from the town it would you would see a square in the middle of a cornfield huh and so I’m I’m from not far from here I’m actually I was born in Brownwood okay which is about two hours north of here

I’m I’m fifth generation like it it’s funny I haven’t been Austin in 22 years but I’m five or six Generations back to this area right here but I live in Salt Lake City yeah uh grew up in LC most of my life though Sol City Utah yeah my

Little brother lives there really yeah you just moved there like a year ago oh well I’d love to hang out uh so yeah I’ve been for 22 years but I grew up in LC Texas okay and I just had coffee with a really good old buddy Matt Cochran uh

We were best friends Junior High High School we’re just talking about the trouble we got in and LC is a really big small town it’s 2,000 people so 5,000 what sort of trouble did you get into I tell you what to do we used to um we

Would go like we would go sit so we called it the East Side uh of the Town Square so that you know our buddies you know we would like back then it was like which I say back then it was you know 2011 2012 Blackberry yeah Blackberry Messenger so we like Blackberry

Messenger like hey meet at East Side 7:00 and everyone you we all go up there and our trucks and our cars and we’ back in on the east side and we’ hang out we’d each other we you know just do the most random [ __ ] that my I love so the

Reason I love what I love about small town Vibe is that there’s nothing to do and so you have to get creative yeah fun we would fight each other for fun and then like like like that that was it you know we would wrestle and we would we

Would fight we would break beer bottles and you know get the cops called on us and you know the one cop that works in town that you know knows your mom and knows everybody and he pulls up and he’s like you keep doing this [ __ ] I’m call

Mom yeah that mean I mean that was you know a traditional movie like like that that’s how I grew up we used to we were laughing about this earlier we used to go by uh Campbell’s ministr soup from the supermarket and put it in our mouths

And pull up the stoplights and act like we’re vomiting on cars next to us just if you live in LA and you can go to like Disneyland they’re always entertaining you never have to yeah yeah no ex and like we would you know you go fishing

Like you know drive out to the gravel roads we we called uh um I told my girlfriend the other day I go we should go uh gravel travel and she’s like what yeah and I’m like yeah gravel travel and she’s like I don’t know what that is I’m

Like oh you don’t I’m like no this is as like you’re 21 20 you know we maybe 20 you know you grab you get case of beer and you go out on the gravel roads and you and she’s like you guys would go and drink and drive I’m like yeah but we’re

On gravel road so like like like no one else is out there you’re just on gravel roads you’re just hanging out maybe stop in a field have a couple more go back home like that was like small town like our parents did that our grandparents did that like yeah like you get pulled

Over on a gravel road like like there’s no cops you know you don’t like you just you go gravel travel and then you know you you take the gravel back to you know a block from your house cuz you can get to your house by gravel somehow I

Promise you know then you just pull in your driveway Park your truck and go inside all right so you’re there you’re melt Dallas yep uh graduate high school then what um I decided at that point the status quo There Was You know I mean the median income is $30,000 and the status

Quo there was you would go and you would go work in a factory and you know do your 20 years and retire and live the good old boy life so that’s kind of you know when I was growing up in you know I wanted to go to the UFA I wanted to go

To college like I wanted to do all these you know I was going to go to the UFA and my friends kind of you know you don’t go to college like that’s a waste of money you just go to the factory and start making you know $20 an hour and

Yeah so I went straight to uh 3M okay um 3:00 a.m. to they have a factory they have a they have a factory outside of Knoxville Iowa um because it’s a branch off of I think they’re based out of Minneapolis okay so not then they have a

Their one in Iowa is based out of Knoxville it’s very huge industry for factories like verier have you ever heard of them verir verier is there in Pella which is kind of all all close yeah so pella’s it’s Pella Knoxville meltra Dallas like kind of all in that

Same area got it um so worked at 3M for a while quit there worked at vermier for a while 18-year-old got fired from vermier because I was just I was a [ __ ] yeah um and I was just sitting at home one night and I’m like I’m like I don’t

Want to be here like I want to I like I want to be more but I felt like at that time like I had lost my chance at going to college um and I didn’t really want to go to college either as well like I

You know I didn’t want to go sit like I wasn’t a great student yeah um so I found the Iowa National Guard oh military interesting um so I joined the guard okay um went down to Fort Sam Houston in San Antonio to be a combat

Medic um CU my thought was is I’ll join the military and I’ll get the training and I’ll get paid to do it yeah um so did that um actually ended up failing 68 whiskey school which is medic school okay because I was just a [ __ ] at that

Point and a bad student yeah um so I had no choice they’re like hey you are now going to be a truck driver so they sent me to truck driver school immediately from Fort Sam um went and became a truck driver went to a um a heavy equipment

Unit learned how to be a gunner um shot big guns did a whole bunch of really cool stuff interesting um So within the guard you are one week in a month two weeks in the summer okay um so for about a year I came back um and by that point

Like I had been through um you know I went through EMT school so I’d been all the way through it um and didn’t pass my final exam so came back actually did go to dmac De Mo Area Community College okay um to go get my EMT started kind of

Following in my mom’s footsteps grandparents footsteps of being in the medical field yeah um got my EMT started working at a men’s clinic um doing that type of stuff and then I had the opportunity to work full-time for the national guard okay um so took an active duty job and was active duty

For almost six years total total time in service um uh right about nine almost 10 years um so I joined I joined in 2014 okay and I and I and I got out of the very beginning of the year of last year oh really um so almost 10 years in

Service um working mostly active duty so worked on post every day in De Moine uh Camp Dodge worked at Midwest counter drug um okay training like dea FBI US Marshals stuff like that to do like building clearing they’re like a Schoolhouse like a Schoolhouse for law enforcement okay um so help helped them

Do that worked at um the building office where people would come and train we would get like buildings ready for them to train in worked in a a factory there on Camp Dodge as well um and then ended my time as a military recruiter so recruiting is recruiting is what killed

It for me is I’m like you know I I just my heart wasn’t in it and um a lot of shady [ __ ] happens in recruiting and and I and I didn’t want to be part of it so so that was so that was around 2022 you

Start going on your offramp yep yep yep so so I started recruiting in in late 2020 okay and then in 2021 I put out a national level packet which is like um I applied for a an active duty recruiting job Nationwide okay um got picked up by

Virginia so we moved out to Virginia okay um and and started recruiting out there and that’s where I found my love for running cuz we were in yeah so we were in Rowan Oak which is right on the appalache trip oh gosh and that’s cool I

Started running and just would run and I mean before work I would run after work I would lift before work I would run after work I would lift just seven days a week really and um trail running and just had no idea what I was doing super

Iconic trip and yeah yeah for sure and actually I went went to there was a store in Virginia called Runabout Rowan Oak okay and I walked in and there was a guy in there and he’s like yeah like like what’s your 5K time and I’d ran a

5k um before that and it was uh it was right like sub7 just 16 16 something crazy and I told that’s what and I told him that he’s like oh really yeah I’m and I’m like and I’m like I’m like yeah per mile and you know and because I’d

Never i’ never trained like I I I had just done a five okay and I I didn’t know anything about anything at that point he’s like oh okay became friends with him later and he’s like dude he’s like he’s like I thought you were lying

He’s like when you came in he’s like I like he’s like I didn’t like you right off the B so I was like this guy this guy’s moving here and he’s lying yeah and um he was a D1 a D1 Runner and I started running with him and he started

Like sharing knowledge with me and like learning what he was doing and um that’s great that’s not the trail The Welcome to Austin Texas um that’s great um yeah so so I started run with him and he was putting me through like he you know I’m going to be

Honest he sent me um I was married at the time I got divorced at the very beginning of last year when I got out of the military and he sent me um like a workout and it was like 4X 400 ah and I’m like 400 what like that’s how much

You didn’t know yeah I had no because because when I was in high school I went out for golf so I didn’t have to run because you know small town right like like all the guys go out for sports and if you don’t go out for sport you’re a

Loser right out of the you know 11 guys we had in CL so my excuse to everyone was like yeah dude I I want to golf like like you know you guys go yeah I’m I’m a golfer like like I’m you know I’m Tiger Woods over here yeah because no there’s

No way in hell I was running yeah so I had no idea I didn’t do track you I didn’t know anything huh so he taught me everything and threw it all at me in 2021 we ran together from April of 21 to December of 21 okay and that led me into

My first marathon attempt which one was that I could just keep going and flowing this whole year but I love it what was your first that was bpn so during that time out in Virginia I got connected with bpn okay um started cuz what happened was is I was running all these

Miles uhuh and I had like I started getting sick like just I had no energy and I I couldn’t figure out like what was going on I wasn’t eating like I wasn’t eating enough food yeah and so I got on YouTube and I I still remember to this day like

I remember right where I was sitting and I typed in how to eat like an endurance athlete Nick bear Nick Bear right there popped up right there1 that was 21 so it was like everything I eat in a day to train for Iron Man like he was training

For an Iron Man at the time and I’m like yeah like this is you know this is super cool like like you know and started watching his videos got into bpn started taking the supplements um and then they had this bpn Marathon um that they only

Had like 200 tickets to sold out in like 8 seconds nice and by the grace of God I got in like I have no idea how I got in was my very first marathon ever huh um that was January of 22 okay and I went down no training like like yeah I’d

Been training with Trey you know and he we’ve been doing these like Marathon specific no I like like we were running 60 miles week on the trails and doing a speed day of like 16 400s at 60 seconds I mean like like he was just murdering

Me yeah but no structure like like he who knows went out ran the bpn marathon 25952 dang and Jeff Cunningham are you familiar with him yeah oh yeah Jeff Cunningham comes up to me afterwards and he’s like how do you know how’d you train for this and I just kind of like

Looked at him and he’s like you didn’t do any like V2 Max threshold power you know and I’m like and I I still I wasn’t I didn’t say a word he’s like you have no idea what I’m saying do you and he’s like and I’m like no I have no idea what

You’re saying he’s like okay he’s like he’s like here’s my number he’s like call me like call me when you get home crazy um at that same time Natasha vandermeir yeah approached me um who was Nick Bear’s coach for Iron Man oh dang and she was like hey I saw what you did

Like I think that you would be great like you know have you ever thought about doing an Iron Man yeah so now I had Jeff Cunningham and Natasha and I’m like what I do I went I went with Natasha okay um I was like I would love

To do an Iron Man because just so happens that Iron Man de Mo was in June oh and we had just moved back from Virginia cuz we were there for the year had just moved back and I’m like I want to sling an Iron Man in my in my

Hometown because now we lived in De moin yeah um started training with Natasha doing like that was my very first coach specific training and at that time I started studying for my personal trainer I started studying nutrition I started studying performance enhancement I was

Like I like I’m good at this like I was like now I want to know so you’re you’re marrying like this I I don’t know if this medical path that you were kind of on you’ve started to marry that now so naturally the way that you told the

Story that comes with like how I told you guys were like I’m kind of obsessed with you know like we just talked about before the camera was rolling body you know seeing body recomp in in Fitness and you know macronutrients and you know playing with um you know vitamin and

Nutrients that you take and like I love that type of stuff yeah and so then with with Natasha um I started doing you know specific training and that led me into I won the the De Moine Half Marathon in February um what was your time uh just 1 120

Flat which I mean you’re in De Mo Iowa so so at that point like0 Flats yeah so and that was my that was my first half okay um and then March went down during my this is like Peak Iron Man training yeah went down to my very first Ultra in

The hometown in fville Arkansas and and now at that point my grandparents had moved down there okay back they had moved back where you know cuz that’s where um like I said I grew up they moved down there and they live there and I’m like how cool would it be to go back

Yes you know to where I was kind of raised yeah and and do this Ultra so I get down there and we start the race and I’m leading it and I’m talking to these guys behind me and I don’t even you know who knows who like I have no idea and

They’re like yeah like we run hundreds you know and and 50s and um you know and they’re like wait what do you do and I’m like I I’m in an Iron Man block right now yeah um and I went on to I set the

Course record and I won it um what is it 50k it was 50k okay uh I have screenshot of it it’s Sticks and Stones ston um so and it’s in Devil’s Den State Park okay um decent elevation I think I ran around 5 hours um but that was super cool like

That was that right there where like that’s where I fell in love like I already knew I’d love the trails from Virginia but doing that that ultra distance you know like that 30 like hitting 30 I was like okay like I was like I was like this is kind of cool and

At that point I was riding a high from going sub three from winning the the De Moine half to winning this Ultra yeah and I’m like okay like you know I think I could be really good at whatever I’m trying to do whatever this is yeah um did Iron Man

Texas went ninth overall in my age group where was that one half um de Mo or I’m sorry just said Iron Man Texas Texas I no no no I did I did that this year or last year I did Iron Man de Mo that was my first Iron Man went ninth overall y

Um and then that was June July I did a 5050 mile or a 40m mile run with the American flag okay I saw pictures yeah so that was this year so I did it last I did it two years ago um did 40 this year I did 52

Really this year this is weird it’s jary I know last year I did 52 yeah um where where where did you do that run so I started at the De Moine capital okay the when I did 52 I started at I’m sorry when I did the 40 I started at the

Capital I ran from the de Mo Capital all the way down to Knoxville where the racetrack was okay um because I skipped a lot of years here I professionally raced cars cuz you’re probably like racetrack why what’s the sign r i i race Sprint cars um oh when we moved back to Iowa

From Arkansas I started racing go-karts adrenaline junkie yeah so I started racing go-karts in like in like 10th grade okay and race go go-karts on dirt 10 11 12 um joined the military came back still raced for about 2 or three years um and then moved up to racing sprint cars at Knox

Which are massive fast cars they have a wing on top to like plant them to the ground um I’ll show you I’ll show you when we’re done yeah so I so having to move out to Virginia in 21 I sold I I sold everything and I I retired from

That type of racing so I think really like that’s kind of where I picked up you know so then I go to Virginia and I’m like oh running like you know yeah and and that’s I’ll be hon now now thing as I get to know you the the Sprint car

Thing tied a lot of tied it all together in some way it’s like well yeah but 100 miles and Military and and you know Ben and I were chatting last night like this connection between you know retired military and 100 mile well I was just talking with my girlfriend about yeah

But you there’s still another thing like you’ve still got some you’re more multifaceted to me like it’s it’s not as simple as you were in the military and now you’re trying 100 MERS yeah but the Sprint car thing is like okay you’re also like bringing bringing adrenaline

To 100 miles in some ways which is not so sprint cars are like you’re think you’re looking at like anywhere from 110 to like 140 mil hour on dirt in a circle so like totally so so bring that with like two a race I think you did

Leadville in 28 hours if I saw it correctly is that year yeah but I had I did Leadville one and I did not complete it well sorry I call it Leadville one lville I I have lville one level two Leadville one was was right at so I

Right after that 40 mile uhhuh there was a charity that saw me on Instagram and they reached out and they’re like hey we had a runner That was supposed to run for us he got hurt oh this was literally like July before like a couple weeks before

Yes and they’re like you know we saw what you did like would do you want to run yeah and at that point I only knew Leadville because of Nick bear like I had no idea what Leadville was I’d just seen Nick do it I’d watch a

Documentary and I’m like yeah I have no idea uh I’ll let you know thanks by click yeah and I like sat in the truck I was literally in my driveway and I’m like holy [ __ ] yeah like should I did and I’m like looking up the race date

And and we are 29 days out yeah and I called my mom and I’m like yo cuz at that point I was gting a little bit of traction you know so like she had known like you know that you know someone would saw me on the Instagram

Space so I was easy easy to explain to her yeah and I was like I’m going to I’m going to do it she’s like yeah she’s like do it cool called him back I’m like I’m in yeah make it to Leadville never like I live in Iowa I couldn’t train altitude

Couldn’t train Hills I didn’t have enough time I was already in I already in my taper what’s your altitude there probably like negative five I don’t know I think it’s like like like 90 ft I mean you know I mean it’s it’s nothing yeah um I mean Iowa like is just like for

Reference like I had under 1,000 feet of elevation gain on my 52 mile run like like it’s nothing um so get to lville you know most side Rena 40 and I’m out there like we’re running like I did the front half I think in like 11 hours at Leadville and I’m out there

Talking to people that are up there and I’m like yeah I’ve never ran over 40 and they’re like oh like you’re [ __ ] you know how many days before the race did you arrive uh I got out there Wednesday so I was there Wednesday Thursday and then Wednesday Thursday Friday the race

Was on Saturday so the elevation like the you you’re now at 10,000 ft the elevation [ __ ] with me more last year than it did the year before so the only thing I noticed year one which was 20 2022 was let’s say I was running at a 10-minute Pace when I was doing my

Shakeouts yeah Wednesday my heart rate was like 175 Thursday my heart rate was like 165 Friday it was like 155 okay so like I watched the heart rate kind of taper down yeah um but yeah so I get out there um life was good life was great I

Summoned hopes pass 11 hours came back came back again went down and as I’m going down like my I remember coming down hopes pass so I’m at like probably 54 55 and my knees were like hitting each other and I couldn’t like I couldn’t keep my knee like the the legs

Were dck was that a strength thing yes or antit yes it was complet your legs were yes my legs were not so then I get to Twin Lakes inbound mhm I sit down in the chair and I’m eating and like I’m like hell yeah like we’re going to crush

This [ __ ] like we have you know we have 18 hours until the cut off yeah and I go to stand up and I I literally couldn’t like I I I I felt fine I just I couldn’t stand up to the point where like my little brother who was there I just was

Telling you about had to put his arms under mine and stand me up and allow me to lock my knees in order to like be able to go yeah um I walked from Twin Lakes to May Queen which is the final y yeah and uh I didn’t run a single time

After that that’s from 56 to 87 so I I walked 50 50k and in the rain overnight cold and I made it to I made it to May Queen about 15 minutes too late ah okay so they cut me off by time yes um that was the craziest thing I’d ever

Experienced because I made it to May Queen and I come out and at May Queen you come out and there’s a road there’s a road and it goes this way down to like where all the crew is and then you know you do your last aid station or the road like

Keeps going this way when I came out they were parked there with the truck and I literally just got in the truck and we left is it now like it like I just literally walked off the course got into a vehicle and left yeah never sell May Queen again never sell the finish

Line again like interesting that was it uhhuh and um that set me on fire right like yeah like that that I I I tell people all the time like you want to talk about a greatest failure my greatest failure was I would have never learned how to be

Who I am today if I wouldn’t have went to Leadville in in in 2022 and failed yeah and that right there was like that Lit such a fire under my ass and then going into 2023 getting you know at that point like I knew like like

I knew in August I was like I’m getting the hell out of the military and I’m going to like this is going to be my life yeah huh and I had August September October November December January I was like I like like like like I was starting to plan out the

Race schedule and the military was like you know you don’t have enough leave you can’t you know you can’t and I was like it’s time to you know wow time to time to kick rocks uhuh and then at that same time um you know my wife and I got

Married super young young we had a phenomenal marriage it was great nothing bad to say but we were just we were just she wanted me to stay in the military you know she was in school full-time and we and I I wanted at that point i’ had

Been in Austin so much from bpn and and Triathlon training like I was like I want to move to Austin and it was just so we separated literally like a week later and it was horrible like I really didn’t see it coming yeah but then at

That point like I sat in it and I’m like H I’m like I I I can now do anything like I was like I I’m getting out of the military I’m getting you know separating you know I’m getting a divorce I’m like it was almost freeing for a moment

Where I’m like whatever I want to do in life now I have nothing holding me back and that was on a that was on a Wednesday that I like had that like I was literally sitting my bedroom just in tears and I’m like what you know what is

This like what’s the point yeah and and we uh we get I get to that point and I called my buddy who was down here uhuh um and he was staying at Airbnb he’s from Fargo and he was staying at Airbnb and I’m like hey uh I’m going to come

Down and hang out with you like I didn’t tell him like what was going on he’s like yeah dude like you know come on down like the weather’s nice like like let’s get it um and I came to Austin with $3,000 in the bank account not a

Single plan literally like like we have to we were you still working at bpn did you say that or you at so I was an I was an ambassador athlete with them at the time um so that’s why it was Austin cuz I was like dude like bpn there like the

Culture all my you know all these people I know and uh got down here um February 28th okay of of last year oh not even a year no not even a year yet dang so got down here um and yeah then this year was just this year was like

The I’d like to say like like this year with my success was like this was like the coming out party yeah of like of building building who I am and I took the risk on like I was like you know I I bet on myself like you know all this

Cliche [ __ ] that people say 100% like like I said [ __ ] it like like here we go and that was with and by like I told you I got my you know certification in nutrition and performance enhancement and um personal training and I had had some athletes at that time I was making

Like a grand a month mhm and and I was like hey I have $11,000 a month I was like I’ll move to Austin I have 3K in the bank account you know I have these airbnbs like you know I have this Airbnb you know I’ll figure it out yep and um I

Figured it out I mean really like that’s you know I I I told myself I was like you know this is this is me I was like if I have to if I have to live under a bridge I’ll live under a bridge but I’m going to I’m going to make this life

Work yeah um because this is what like in 2022 this is what I found out that I really wanted yeah leading into 2023 so you’ve got all of these things sort of swirling around the the ultra the the fitness the betting on yourself the cliche stuff

Who were who was inspiring you at the time who were you looking to thinking you know 3,000 in the bank making a th000 bucks a month some people would feel that and feel like discouraged you saw that as like game on like I saw it as like as like as like there’s one

Option here and and it’s a plan a and plan a only my plan B was literally going to be sleeping under a bridge until I figured it out truly so what what voices were out there inspiring you you know what I mean like who are the people who are the like what what

Propelled you what did you what podcast did you listen to like what were the things that were giving you that confidence in yourself yeah um you know I I found I would say you know this was maybe like you know in my subliminal mind you know not really like right

There in front but um I found running yeah I went to Virginia and I found running but I truly found running because I found David gogin ah and my mom was a single mom yeah we were piss [ __ ] poor like we went through the [ __ ] and I was a piece of [ __ ] growing

Up like I was a shitty kid um and I remember looking at goggin and like and reading his book and being like dude if that guy can do that yeah why can’t I yeah and and that’s probably something else cliche but it’s true like it is so

True but not everybody engages with it and says I can do that too you know what I mean and I think that’s what’s special about David gogins is that he’s found like he’s called a lot of men into like intention intentionality yes but you heard it you you engage with it and he

Was like this is what I’m looking for and just kind of clicked yeah yeah 100% And and that was really kind of like I said it wasn’t like front and center like I wasn’t driving to Austin being like yeah David goggin you know but like

But like he touched me so like like that book touched me so well that that was something I carried with me all through 2021 leading into 2022 Y and it was just like you know if he could go through all that [ __ ] and make it through and now

You know he’s he’s wrote a book and he’s a multi-millionaire and he doesn’t have to work another day in his life right I’m like why can’t I do that and that was kind of the mentality like like even to the point where come may may of

2023 I was so broke I had to sell my Iron Man bike oh dang yeah so come I got here in February I was here in March in April I ran the bpn marathon uhu um a week later I did Iron Man Texas it was like all it was a little challenge same

Week thing yep and then in May I literally like hit a point where I’m like I can’t even pay rent and because I was still trying to build the coaching and and all of that and I had to I sold my that bike that I did my Iron Man’s

With I sold that bike because I couldn’t I couldn’t pay rent dang yeah that’s crazy so there you there was struggle there was a lot of struggle which relates right back to the ultra disc right and and so like honestly the I see so many interesting as I’ve talked to so

Many people about this kind of this next question here it feels like super uh like I’m so interested in your take on this because now I get selfish like all right I I’ve fallen apart for some justifi like when I look back at my seven dnfs my my first 100 mile attempt

I had that same leg problem at like mile 60 at Zion like I was going into I was like can I can I keep going can I not I’m not I’m just not sure I don’t know what it’s like to be at this high

Mileage I sit down for a sec try to get some good food in me and I stand up and then my legs are gone I can’t even like step up on a route you know what I mean um so I look back at all my dnf so think

I can give you the story of all seven like I I mean because they they’ve haunted me they live with me for sure I get it and the one the one that I finished like I can even say like okay now you know that was my third attempt I

Finished it and I thought everyone after that was going to be great well then I dnf the next five some of them maybe good reasons some of them not but the thing that I’m on the hunt right now for is how first off like I start to really

Fall apart at like 55 55 miles 6 like really like ugly like real ugly and so one of the things I’m looking for is yeah you can fall apart I have my buddy Jeremy he can fall apart at Mile 40 former Navy military mindset kind of guy

And he can finish the 100 he’s got this switch that I’m trying to like learn glean from and take from him he’s we’re going to be side by side design most of the time so he’s going to drag me along hopefully hopefully but first question this late race

Survival like how do I push how do I push how do I make my body fall apart at 80 and only have to slosh through 20 miles instead of it falling apart at 55 if if we’re just looking at late race survival from a fitness standpoint does that make sense like how

Do I I push back like my my my biggest thing that I did in preparation for Leadville 2 which was last year um was it didn’t because during Iron Man I broke my fibula okay so mile mile 24 so I I I I ran the bpn marathon I won the

Bpn marathon on Saturday nope on Sunday okay and then I did Iron Man Texas on Saturday so Sunday to Saturday yeah and during Iron Man Texas at mile 24 in stride the left leg hit and it just was like a lightning bolt oh God and the the

Good thing is is that the fibula only carries like 10% of your body weight so I was able to just keep going did you in your mind was like oh it broke um no no no I was just in my mind I was like no I mean I was like oh

Like like I really [ __ ] this up like like like something is is bad and you can like see me kind of like hobbling at the Finish yeah um but I didn’t know I didn’t know I really messed it up up until you know all the adrenaline wore

Off and we were standing there and I was like talking to somebody and I went to like step back and it just like buckled and I ended up going to the med tent so but with that being said what I’m saying is that I took I took 62 days off or 59

50 61 I took I took two months off yeah so like you’re counting the days you know yeah yeah yeah so I didn’t run all of May uh and some of June okay so coming into lville training I now have 6 weeks yeah so I built my miles

Back up um went from 7 18 32 86 100 dang and then I did 100 100 and then tapered and you just doing that around Austin yeah okay yeah I have I have so many routes around Austin that I’m like this is my 16 mile route this

Is my eight this is my 10 this is my 20 um but but where I’m going with this is that I didn’t have a lot of miles a lot of weeks of miles under my belt yeah but what I did do daily is number one I would do doubles

So I would I would run in the morning and I would run in the evening to make sure that the legs were fatigued I didn’t do that for Leadville one not that I had time to even train and I would pull the I would pull

A sled so I would do a half hour to 45 minutes with a sled like a weighted just like around a park no so we have a we have a gym yes we have a gym here and there’s there’s Turf so probably like you want bit to see here but like from

Us to that tree yeah and what I would do is I would I would I would push the sled down and then you have like a rope on your on your back and I would walk the sled back and I would do that 6 days a

Week for anywhere from 30 to 45 minutes what does that doing for you so that’s that’s kind of um as you’re coming back if you lean into that sled as you’re pulling um it’s really putting the quad under a lot of stress okay so what I

Would do is I would run like during my peak week I did 120 122 miles in 6 days that was my peak week for Leadville which isn’t really needed but at that point like I was so far behind I was like I need to catch up yeah so I would

Run 20 miles in the morning and I would come back at like 5:00 and I’d run four miles and then I would lift and I would pull that sled so by that point like I’m so like I’m so tired my legs are fatigued like my body’s fatigued that I

My legs would already be tired my legs would be under stress and I would pull that sled to really mimic because I remember what it felt like year one for Leadville trying to go down a mountain you know and try to like hold yourself up I see so the muscles that you’re

Really mus max out are those muscles yes yes 100% and then and then when you’re leaning into that as well it’s really working your glutes so you’re really pulling you know you’re pulling with your glutes as well which you think if you’re going to go uphill you’re you

Know you’re using your glutes okay um so I’ve had a lot of success in in pulling the sled interesting um how would a someone uh who doesn’t like I don’t belong to a gym like that is there anything else that I could do to yeah actually this is kind of wild there’s a

Um do you have a truck yeah yeah so there’s a there’s a device out there that’s called sled connect okay and it’s like 200 bucks maybe huh but I also did this before Leadville cuz my buddy had it yeah um and it hooks your hitch and

It’s a it’s it’s like a field goal post hooks into your hitch and we were pushing and pulling trucks in the parking lot at the gym interesting yeah so like so we had I actually I have a there’s a video on my Instagram I’ll

I’ll pull it up for you if you remind me but I literally had a had a uh like a ratchet strap around my waist yeah and I’m like pulling this truck in the parking lot so um you know there’s there’s devices out there like that um

You can also buy you know buy your own weighted sled um take it out to a park like we’re at right now okay and you know the push pull sleds um you get a car tire oh you know put a car tire get a rope tied around you know tie around

Your waist and so sometimes you’re walking forward and sometimes are you going back like yeah yeah so I would do all three so I would uh I would push yeah I would push I would pull and then I would also like if you were the sled I

Would I would pull it this way as well okay so I would push it I would pull it backwards and then I would pull it forwards okay just to kind of you know because at that point like my my hip flexors like everything was so tired yes

That you know I’m just putting it under stress even more so some of that that cuz my hip flexors are so unpredictable to me so are you is some of that stuff that you’re recommending that’s really strengthening yeah yeah definitely and then what I’m leaning into a lot this

Year is is trying to do a lot of Mobility work okay um and prioritizing you that that that’s the great thing right is it’s so hard for me to tell like to tell people this because I’ve been there and I’ve had the 9 to5 right and I’ve had the the

Full-time job where you know it’s it’s hard to and I respect that like like I was there like I was waking up at 4:00 a.m. I was going to bed at at 11:00 p.m. you know to get my training in but now for me it’s like yeah I can sit here and

Be like yeah so I wake up I get my run in I go home I eat I do an hour of Mobility I go you know back and I run again and then I go to the gym and I lift weights like that’s what I what what help me with Mobility help me

Understand that what do you mean so um Mobility really is the the nitty and gritty [ __ ] that you don’t like like stretching oh okay and static stretching stuff that in the moment doesn’t feel like you’re adding value exactly exactly the stuff that like just really sucks

Like I’ll get a band and um go to the gym put the band around a pole and you know do ankle Mobility I can’t even stand up straight I’ll do ankle Mobility um you know where you can get where like you put the you put it around you scoot

Back as far as you can it’s putting so much pressure on your hip like it’s pulling your hip out you know so like that like like you know stretching isn’t always just you know you know doing this and you know you’re getting ready for a race like there’s a lot of banded

Stretches that you can do um you know where it’s really like tugging on different areas um so is the mobility the benefit to Mobility because like you know as the race goes on first off like my pack no matter how much I try and train the upper middle of my back always

Just by like mile 35 is just like brutal so you know I’m always trying to stretch but as the race goes on my body gets tight you know for probably obvious doing something crazy and trying to do this but like it gets to the point where

You know like you turn can’t turn around very well my neck starts to get is mobility helping that stuff yes 100% okay because the thing is like you can you know you can work Mobility into your routine uhhuh for years like like just just like you would with

Weightlifting right like like like like you’re working at at doing bench press you know twice a week over and over and over and over and over again yeah and you know over that time like your your bench press is going to get better if you’re working Mobility like have you

Read goggin’s book uh he has two books right yes I’ve read the first one okay so the first one he talks about he got super super sick like this towards the end of the book he got super sick couldn’t figure out what was wrong with

Him thought he had a had a disease uh and he was just so [ __ ] tight that like that was the problem yeah yeah yeah so if you go go back go back now now that I’ve said that and listen to that and like now this same guy is telling

People and no one will want to listen because no one likes to stretch that he’s stretching for an hour in the morning and an hour in the evening like like he is he is dedicating time to stretching he just did a podcast with um huberman yep and in that podcast he’s

Still saying the same thing he’s like I’m still having trouble today he’s like like when I start running he’s like I’m limping for like the first like two or three miles like it takes me so much time to like warm up he’s got those crappy knees exactly exactly yeah I mean

The whole like his legs are all [ __ ] yeah so so he’s still like getting what he’s his point is that he’s still having to loosen up a lot early in his and then I found I found a lot of success recently like you and I talked about

With um and you know and there’s there’s many different there’s there’s many people that will that will say positives to this and negatives to that like like I know um you know Sally McCrae oh yeah is you know she’s doing a lot of dumbbell movements she’s doing a lot of

Mobility type hip Bridges with dumbbells and stuff like that and I know for sure like that that is working for her yeah but the thing is is is different things work different for everybody because our bodies are all different for me I’m finding success in

In Crossfit because for me like I tell I tell people that I think CrossFit is the running of weightlifting okay CrossFit is the running of weightlifting cuz it’s always like every minute on the minute um you know you’re going to snatch and you’re going to clean and you’re going to squat

And it’s like bang bang bang bang bang right you see these you know the bodybuilders that are out there and it’s like hey I’m going to do one set of 10 and you know there we go okay took 90 seconds now I’m going to rest for 2

Minutes you know and that’s the you know there’s not a there’s not a lot in that but I found in CrossFit you know when you’re doing a power clean you’re working so many other muscles that I don’t think that you can hit during the bodybuilding proc during during the hypertrophy process which is

You know muscle building body building okay so in a clean for me it’s like okay so you’re familiar with the power clean no so power clean is just like a deadlift stance okay we’re going to come here and with a clean you’re going to lift it up

You’re going to pop it out your hips you’re going to come down like this mhm you’re going come up okay that’s a clean so you’re taking a you’re taking a barbell and you’re coming up your legs you’re doing a deadlift motion you’re popping it with your hips so you’re

Using your hip flexors here you’re hitting the bar you’re pulling up with your traps you’re using your arms using your biceps you’re flipping it and now you have your now you have to get under the bar you’re using your legs to catch it yeah and then you’re using your

Stabilizers to hold it and then you’re using your legs to push up how many muscle groups that I just hit there right yeah interesting so it’s different when like you know you do a bench press okay cool you just worked your pecs how’s that going to help you be a better

Runner right and you know uh I think about the uh the uh overhead squat so an overhead squat in CrossFit is um same thing I was looking for like a long stick or something so you take a barbell take a barbell and you have your hands out wide you’re working on your

Stabilizers you have your hands out wide you’re coming here you’re holding this weight above your head and you’re coming down and you’re squatting oh dang and then you’re coming up so instead of it being a back squat where you’re just on your you know you’re back squat you’re

Using your glutes and your hamstrings and your quads you’re just squatting the overhead press you’re using your core which how much do we need to use our core in running right and so much you’re using your core you’re using your shoulders you’re balancing you’re using the extra muscles in your legs to hold

That weight above your head and then as you come down your your hip flexors are engaged your glutes are engaged okay so I’ve been finding a lot of success I haven’t tested it yet it’s going to be tested this weekend but I haven’t tested it yet but I’ve been finding so much

Success in and being able to I also feel like like yeah like I’m sore from Crossfit but I’ve been doing CrossFit five six times a week mhm and running 100 mile weeks yeah and I like there’s times where you go for a 20- mile run

Right and you like get in your truck and you drive away and you’re like oh man like I’m so tight like this is horrible yeah but then I go in the evening and I’ll do CrossFit and I’ll do these overhead squats and I’m stretching out yeah my hips okay you know like like

Like like yeah I’m tired and I’m not doing you know a [ __ ] ton of weight right but I’m and at that same time I’m like man like my hips are super tight well during that process my hips are getting stretched out and just doing a lot of these you know compound movements

As well like doing a lot of deadlifts and doing a lot of back squats and front squats and front squats as well is what I did you know leading into Leadville because you’re when you’re doing front squats you’re you have the weight here you’re promoting you know major quad use

The biggest thing is it’s going to fall apart first like you just said you’re like I couldn’t even like step over a stick why because of your quad it’s because of the quad just like twitching like crazy uhhuh so yeah I mean but obviously there are people out there who

Like like think about Courtney de Walter have you ever seen her lift a weight no maybe she does but she doesn’t tell people that right right totally and she’s the best maybe you know or she’s one of the best if not the best female Runner out there yeah she doesn’t lift

Weights yeah so maybe we just throw everything that I [ __ ] set out the window well yeah also I mean she she’s got to be an outlier cuz I think her diet she also yeah yeah you know I beer and and I love that me too I love it

Like like but you know so but that’s everything we just said take it with a grain of salt but it is very different for everyone but there are multiple things but the other 99% of us out there you know we need this stuff that you’re saying yeah and to yeah even to think

About like the mobility to think about the certain yeah like this stuff spend more time on it and then you have any recommendations for like I get this a lot from other runners to of my of my ilk you know that Center back just hurts yeah and I if it’s muscle weakness if

It’s form you know over time or you form starts to get really what I what I really like doing recently is the ski you know what the skier is so it’s the CrossFit machine it’s the skier so it’s the you probably seen it the machine where you grab the handles and you pull

Down oh yeah yeah so doing I did a lot of that leading into Leadville number one I would just I would pull it down and I would do a lot of these yeah because I remember remember when I first did leeville how bad my trap my uh

Triceps hurt because of my pulse yeah so I bring it down and you know you’re working that that motion but then I really enjoy doing a lot of the ski because I feel like if something on your body is hurting during during a run yeah it’s probably not being worked enough in my

Opinion that’s right that’s what and and so you know when it comes down if you’re like man like I’m having this type of back pain you know like and if it’s if it’s in that Center back then then there’s you know where you can go and

You can do you know you can do cable rows at the gym where you’re sitting there with the cable and you’re rowing back and you’re working you know you’re working those muscles to you know because if you if if you work those muscles and you show them hey you’re

Going to get worked yeah then when you get into the race and you’re using them when you haven’t before yeah then at that point if they’re already used to it then it’s not going to hurt as bad yeah um that’s good yeah I mean but also you know like I said I’m

Being fair to everyone right Courtney doesn’t lift any weights Sally Sally doesn’t do deadlifts like you know I mean I’m you know I’m I do things different I think I think things are different and I’m willing to test it I’m sure people will [ __ ] on it um and I’m fine with that but

You know there’s there’s there’s both sides to I think what’s coming into ultra running and for some it’s maybe been and they like you said like Courtney May behind the scenes be doing all this stuff it’s just not been the brand of ultra running to be in the gym

Yes the brand of ultra running the clicks you know come from beautiful scenery on their 150 mile weeks or um Camille Heron I don’t know if you know who she is I love she’s the one who’s been talking a lot about No More long runs and so for her she’s doing two

Hours Max and then she goes and wins spartathlon and Greece that doesn’t work also like no back to backs yeah yeah yeah no like like like yeah I I I think I read that with her where because most of my athletes that I’m that I’m like if I’m

Peing them for a race and their Peak week’s going to be like a 30 and a 20 yeah or you know or like we did yeah I we just did a couple weeks ago one of my athletes was in town and we did we did a

30 and a 10 yeah and you know or a or a 25 and a 20 Y and and I’ve read a lot around that where people are saying like that’s not it anymore right but I’m still success in it for myself along with my athletes so once you get to high

Mileage like 100 MERS I it just seems like yeah certain things work for certain people but so much of it and I think now as we kind of start to land the plane here on this discussion one of the things that you seem to bring the the common denominator for everybody

Though still is a mental toughness yes and that also has been a weakness of mine but I still have this ambition to get it so for the final two questions the first one is you know is about mental toughness like what what is in your mind at the start

Of Leadville going into Rocky Raccoon this weekend what do you are you saying something to yourself have you made a decision like I’m going to finish this thing like what’s in your head hold I’m going to [Laughter] sneeze it’s part of it all right keep it um so the biggest thing for

Me is I truly believe like this is what and I wouldn’t say this is mental toughness this is what keeps me calm and collected yeah and this is something like we were just talking about I told you we just did this breath work and we were having a discussion after is like

What is meant to be is meant to be and whatever is going to happen at Rocky Raccoon in 3 days is already set in stone I believe that there’s nothing that I can do right now besides probably jumping off a bridge and hurting myself yeah there’s nothing I can do right now

That is going to make that race any better so for me I have never I truly haven’t I I I I was trying to find the LIE there and and I have never towed the line and been nervous and been upset you know like like I’ve tow the line next to

People friends that are like yeah oh my God white you know and they’re like they’re like why did I do this and just like you know because because it’s just you know you’ve already done everything that now now I can see if like which granted I mean this is just ignorant but

When I did Iron Man Texas last year after the marathon I didn’t even train for it I just did it and that’s the race where I’m talking about my friend where we’re standing in the swim line yeah and he’s like I don’t know what’s going to

Happen this is this is so bad like I’m white I’m going to throw up and I’m like so maybe arrogant to the fact of like I haven’t even trained and I haven’t been in the in months and here I am getting ready to 2.4 and I’m just like yeah like

You know like if he drowns he drowns like so I think it’s I think it’s being able to carry you know being able to tell yourself and being able to believe it when you say it to yourself unlike whatever whatever is meant to be is

Meant to be if I if I go out to Rocky on Saturday and I dnf yeah okay time to find the lesson yeah you know what what what did I you know if I go out to Rocky and I win it sick you know I mean I mean

Great but whatever is meant to be is meant to be and I think that that that that’s the first step yeah is is approaching that start line with the mentality of like I’ve done what I’ve needed to do to get to this point I trust myself I trust my training I trust

My instincts I trust my faith what you know if you believe in God whatever I don’t care I do like for me it’s like you know I I’m I trust everything like like like I’m putting my trust in you here we go yeah that’s the biggest thing

For me is like is having that feeling first yeah because you can take that feeling to mile 50 yeah you can get to 50 like like you and I just talk like like you can go 50 miles yeah then you get to 50 and I’ve been to

The point at 50 where I’m falling apart which is when I when I broke the leg in September yeah when I towed the line with three breaks and I had no idea I just you know was an [ __ ] and thought I was hurt and I get to

50 and I and I remember you know I called a good friend of mine and I’m [ __ ] Balling on the phone I mean because I I had led this race like like I was leading I was in the lead and I’m like what do I do like you know like I’m

Like how can I I knew it was coming yeah I knew the dnf was coming and I think that it was just me letting that emotion out yeah and I was you know do I quit at 50 like you know cuz it was it was an out and

Back I’m like how do I quit knowing that there is this is it right here this about what I’m I’m about to say yeah how do I quit knowing that there is a chance at success H you know so like here’s the thing what if someone

Said walk down to that bridge down there there is a chance that there is a million dollars on that bridge they’re like 5050 shot there’s either a million dollars on that bridge or there’s not yeah would you walk to that bridge of course you know I mean I mean easier

Said than done but but for me it’s like I would I would rather that’s where the saying the risk over regret is is is what we is what we said before this before the LA one before the the saddle to Ser 100 yeah is like I would I would rather risk

It than to regret the fact that I never tried H right and that’s good and and and you know and and and it’s easier said been done but but to me that that’s what I came up with on the phone with him in that moment was how can you quit knowing that

There’s a chance yeah and and and that’s and I think that I had that during Leadville one yeah because I knew when I stood up it was done yeah I knew it was done yeah but how could I stop at 56 knowing that there was a chance that

I could see that Finish Line yeah so I walked 50 kilom right and I knew I knew like like like during that time when I left I said I have to hold a 20 minute per mile Pace in order to finish the Leadville 100 yeah and overnight I kept

Looking at my watch 26 27 20 24 you you know everyone’s been there right like like where you see it y but to me it was just me saying like there is a chance yeah there is a chance because I think that as like we undervalue what our body is capable of

Mhm because as you probably experienced right you can be just [ __ ] the bed at 30 yeah and the next thing you know at 50 you get this like whoa because for me when I called when I called Bob on the phone and I was talking to him and

I’m balling yeah and I’m like I like like like my legs [ __ ] like I’m I’m not going to make it and he’s like you know there’s a chance there’s a chance there’s a chance I get to 50 running 12 minute pace 54 to 60 I was running 8:30 miles after alreadying on

The phone to him telling you know so this is this about 2 hours later yeah I’m running 8 Minute miles now I completely [ __ ] the bed after that but but you but but there’s always you know how was I capable of that when I’m crying on the phone saying hey I know

That my leg is broken at you know at that point and then I’m capable of running those miles what if I could have done 20 20 of those miles and I would have never known because I quit what if I would have quit on when I called him

On the phone and I would have never been able to tell you the story now yes of I was able to run 6 miles at an 8 minute pace even after I thought I was going to quit right so there’s so many there’s so many lessons in that yes and to get past

The point where you want to quit and find out what you’re still capable of that you could still yeah and that’s what I that’s what I um I don’t know if you saw the other day but I posted this real with a caption like with something

That it I was just sitting there and it came to me is with what we do I always was chasing the finish line yeah and I said I became more as an athlete as a man as a human when I stopped chasing the finish line and I started

Chasing what I could overcome H because you learned so much about yourself like like like you have however many 100s that you have dnf would you say eight uh seven of eight yeah you’re like seven put some [ __ ] respect on yeah give so you’ve dnf seven 100s but you’ve

Probably learned more in those seven dnfs than I’m going to learn in the next four or five years right because I don’t I I i’ I’ve dnf twice right and I learned so much from from Leadville so much from saddle to Surf yep you’ve done that what almost four more times than I

Have I mean each of I absolutely age and so but when it comes down to okay how do I how do I not I like you’re okay okay I’ve learned enough I don’t want to do this anymore yeah I think it’s carrying that that mentality of what if just keep

Telling yourself what if what if what if what if and that’s good what if I go one more mile yeah what if I go one more mile what if I go one more step yeah you know break it break it break it down that’s so much to where like you get to

That point where you get you and you know the point where you’re like I’m like like I’m going to quit yeah yes and yep you’re like what if I go one more step yeah and you do that one more step yeah what if I go one more step yeah

What if what if what if what if and that now that I think about that I I I I’ve heard that saying before in an Iron Man yeah um there was a lady and she she went up to a guy and she’s like there was like a golf cart and she’s like I

Quit and he’s like no no nope you don’t you don’t he’s like I’ll drive a mile up and he’s like and if you want to quit you can get in yeah and she gets up there and he goes he goes you want to do you want to quit and she’s like I want

To quit that’s awesome and he goes I’ll drive one more Mile and if you still want to quit you’ll get in yeah you want to quit I don’t want to quit D that’s awesome that’s great I’ll go a mile and if you want to quit then then you quit

Do you want to quit I don’t want to quit wow and he and he was what a great way to break it down yeah that’s amazing you know I mean so that’s something you need to tell yourself and then on top of that like and I really truly mean this I

Would rather [ __ ] die than quit like like it it it I don’t know what it is man I’ll just if it’s just me like I was sitting in that chair I was sitting at that chair at Saddle of surf and I was telling my buddies that were there I was

Like I’ll walk this whole [ __ ] right now like like because I could walk I’m like but we’re going to be out here for for for for 30 hours because that was such a like it was such a smaller race that like there was no cut off like like

It was it was 100 miles yeah and at that point we were 75 deep it was like 17 hours 16 hours and it’s like no maybe it’s like 14 hours I don’t know [ __ ] dude I don’t even think it was midnight at that point like like like cuz I was

Hauling ass yeah and I was like I’ll walk I’m like but we’re going to be here till 10:00 a.m. like you guys want to be here till 10:00 a.m. and everyone’s like you know I don’t know but so so the consensus there was you know why we did

Pull out of that was number one we knew that I was that I was injured and I wasn’t just hurting yeah and we also knew that like this is Saddle to Surf this isn’t Leadville this isn’t UTMB this isn’t you know yeah this is yeah this isn’t Western States like like there’s no

Reason you know you send me to Western States and I’ll snap my [ __ ] leg in half before you know I’ll crawl that [ __ ] like but that’s the thing you know is I think it’s just there’s something within you that you need to and even laugh about right like like like like

Like when you get out there you can almost you can almost joke yourself into that mentality like just like what I like you’re laughing where like I’ll crawl that whole [ __ ] and like I’ll tell people like like I’ll just I’ll be out there and I’ll be like I’ll be like

I’ I’d rather put a gun to my head than lose than than than you know or you know or I’ll pass somebody and I’ll be like hey I’ll see you at the Finish Line you know you can almost joke yourself into like yeah you can almost you know talk

Yourself into the fact of there’s so much about selft talk and you know now don’t get me wrong like like lville one I remember like when I started in 2022 I was like I was like no matter what I’m not going to quit like I remember having that conversation with

My brother I was like I was like no matter what I will not quit do not let me leave cuz at that point i’ had never done 100 I’m like do not let me leave this course unless I am broken yeah and he’s like yeah cool so I remember one of

The times during the overnights when it was raining and you know I was running I was walking the the the 25-minute m I remember thinking in my head I was like I’m going to tell him that I rolled my ankle and that like my ankle’s broken like you know I was I was

Like I’m going to tell him that I’m like [ __ ] up so that way I can quit yeah because I knew that I was like I’m not going to make it I’ve been there and I was like I was like so I’m going to lie yeah totally been there I’m going to

Tell him that this is going on yeah and I was like I was like I’m just going to text him and tell him right now so that way he knows and for some reason like I just talked myself like I was like no I was

Like I’m going to tell him the next aid station yeah and then you get there to the aid station and you’re like I’ll tell him at the next aid station you know you so and and that goes back to the saying of just one more step yeah just one more

Step one more step yeah and that’s what I think it is is is and there’s power in being a cocky arrogant [ __ ] to yourself like yep like waking up and because truly like I I don’t I there’s I’m not the best I’m not even close to

The best like I’m not I’m not I’m not even close to being close to those guys that are the best right and I and I don’t know if I ever will be but I sure the [ __ ] will talk like I am I will wake up and I will look in the

Mirror and I’ll be like you son of a [ __ ] you are the best and and I’ll tell everyone and I’ll tell everyone that I’m the best like and I and and because me me speaking that out loud Uhhuh you hear it you know and the more like like here’s the thing if you’re growing up as a kid and your mom is sitting there and she’s like [ __ ] you [ __ ] you [ __ ] you [ __ ] you what are you going to think well [ __ ] me you’re right

Right you know and if but if your mom’s there and she’s like I love you I love you I love you I love you I love you you’re going to feel loved right so why don’t we there’s why don’t we do that to ourselves people don’t do that to

Themselves to to waking up and being like I’m the best I tell my friends that I’m the best I tell you know they I tell them that they’re the best yeah you know words are so powerful and if I go around and I you

Know I I show up to the to the Starline of Rocky and I’m like I’m the greatest dude out here and everyone’s like [ __ ] that guy and I’m like yeah [ __ ] him I don’t care like I’m the best I’m the best and then you know you come in like

976 Place yeah and then you’re still walking over the Finish Line like I told you I was the best I told you you know it’s it’s carrying the humor but but really like it’s the funny stuff yeah but works it does it does work like

You know I love that and and you know when when you’re injured like you know going through this injury like and that’s something that we were talking about in that breath workk session this morning is like you know she’s like are you are are you putting the same the

Same power into telling yourself that you’re healed as you are to telling yourself that you’re going to win the bpn marathon that you’re going to you know win the ultra like are you are you carrying the same energy and telling yourself that yeah and that kind of hit

Me as well you know I’m like no because when I the bpn marathon I said I’m going to win the bpn marathon when I finished Leadville I said I’m going to finish Leadville when I won the ultra I said I’m literally told my grandmother as I’m walking out the door standard house I

Like I’m going to win this whole thing and she’s like okay you know so saying it over and over again you know you’re calling it into fruition but then when it comes down to like you know you’re like oh my back hurts you know and

You’re like yeah like I get this pain in my back no no no no no no you know it’s like hey like my back is fine like like my like I’ve been having I’ve been having hip issues this whole week never had hip issues in my life that’s what we

Were doing the breath work about this morning was like trying to get me out of that head space and you know so it’s like my hip is fine I’m fine my leg is fine this is fine we don’t speak that enough either yeah and you know then you

Get out there in that race and you’re like because the pain is so deep that we fixate on it and it’s like you know yeah it’s a fixation it’s like it’s an obsession that’s a if you can if you can get away from that and be like this is

Fine this is fine this is supposed to happen this this is supposed to be there good you know yeah I would be surprised if I did like I’m running 100 miles what do I expect yeah 100% like I that’s so good yeah I mean I like

You know I ran I finished Leadville I remember I I finished Leadville I had on the Nike Ultra flies the brand new shoes that had just came out I actually got them before Leadville from Nike okay and they gave me a prototype and they gave me a nine that’s

Awesome and it fit like an 11 11 and I wore it anyways I had seven blisters on the bottom of each foot oh your foot just sliding through that sh oh yeah dude just and now you know but me I’m like bro like Nike gave me these shoes

Bro I like I need to wear them and and so long story short I remember getting out there at 25 or at I’m sorry at 70 at 75 at Leadville and I remember walking and I stopped my buddy Austin like what are you doing I was like I’m just taking

A mental picture real quick because I was in the most pain that I had ever been in my entire life I literally excuse me I literally stopped and I just stood there like this I was like I’m taking a mental picture he’s like of what I’m like of the fact that I

Feel like I’m walking on [ __ ] glass right now because I’ve never experienced this and I want to and I want to remember it y but for me it’s like that think about that mentality instead of being like Oh my God I need to sit down I need to like you know I

Need to put my feet up yeah no no no I want to stop and I want to be like click you know like like hold it there and then be like I’ll be like I’m gonna laugh about this as soon as I’m done and if I keep going I’ll be done sooner yeah

All right so I’ll wrap it with this story because it’s it’s so in line with what what you just said the 100 mile I finished my buddy Cordell was pacing me uh middle of the night in the Zion desert and I’m like doubled over and he’s like what’s wrong so I I’m

Having this pain in my leg and so he I mean just an amazing pacing friend like he he’d get down and just like help massage my leg and at one point I’m just doubled over and he’s like what’s going through your head right now like let’s just get it

Out there and I said Despair and he said despair have you ever felt despair before and I said I thought I had but I have not he’s like can you believe how awesome this is you’re experiencing something for the first time yes right now and I it was just like this moment

Of like oh my God yeah even dis like even despair felt beautiful yeah I was like and then and yeah and when you think about that something else that I that I also think about is is being grateful to even to even be able to do that it’s so

Wild and and you know I remember summiting hopes pass this year mhm and I I bald I bald at top O’s pass because I was like the like I’ve never been this close to the sky like I’m getting Goosebumps I’m getting Goosebumps like like like look at that like how how grateful think

About all think about the people that are born into a wheelchair yeah they’ll never see the top of hopes pass yeah think about the people that are you know born into a wheelchair they’re never going to see UTMB they’re never going to see Western States they’re never going

To sum at the tallest point of anywhere yeah and you and I can just walk out there and and and we can sign up for some random race and just hike up Hop’s pass and go to the top yeah how [ __ ] ungrateful to to not feel that right you

Know and gosh yeah and that’s a big thing for me is like when I get in these in these spaces of of hurt and pain MH think about the fact that those people will also never get that sense that you felt when you cross that Finish Line they’ll never feel that yeah

Because they don’t have they don’t like they’re they can’t they don’t they don’t have the capability to do that yeah so why why take advantage of that to where you get a choose to go out there and do that yeah why would you quit yeah yeah that’s good that’s a good

Way to Matthew thank you so much man appreciate I appreciate it all right good luck at uh Rocky Raccoon yeah [ __ ] around and find out it’s the only way to really do it