Who legally owns a lost disc? When does a lost disc become abandoned? What are the legal aspects of determining who the true owner of a disc is if a dispute arises?
Special thanks to Robbie Boros for submitting these questions. If you have a question or topic you’d like to see covered in a future video, submit it through our website or email us at info@discgolf.law
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CHAPTERS
0:00 Who Owns a Lost Disc?
0:50 Possession is 9/10 of the Law?
2:21 Burden of Proof
4:00 Lost, Abandoned, or Mislaid?
8:28 Legal Obligations
10:34 What Do You Think?
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Chris Clark | pdga 16694
Matthew Clark | pdga 143565
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Hey everybody it’s Chris Clark with disc golf dot law what can legally be done about a lost disc this is a question or actually a set of questions from Robbie Boros for the purposes of this analysis we’re going to have to invent a hypothetical situation you just purchased your
2015 Nate Sexton Tour series Firebird for $2,000 on eBay and promptly lost it while playing around at a disc golf course most of you have never lost a disc with that high of a sale value but I bet
Almost all of us have a lost disc story some disc that just means the world to us and we do almost anything to get it back Robbie wrote us and said I see a lot of arguments back and forth regarding
Lost discs I see a lot of people claiming abandonment laws or stating that possession is 9/10 of the law but I wanted to find out what the reality of this is there is no law that we are
Aware of and no example in any court case that we could find stating that possession accounts for 90% of all the evidence in any given case or situation the phrase does have its origins
In the law but maybe not in the way that some of us may have thought so the phrase means that when someone physically possesses something there is a stronger legal claim that it belongs to them than anyone else in other words custody presumes ownership but the phrase is used or at least it’s
Meant to be used in a situation where someone is found doing something illegal or possessing something illegal and that thing that they have in their possession does implicate them as the true owner or custodian of that illegal item so Robbie to answer your question yes there is some
Applicability of the phrase possession is 9/10 of the law but it probably doesn’t mean what you think it means and probably doesn’t have much applicability in the case of a lost disc okay Robbie’s second question does placing my name and phone number on my golf disc prove ownership in
The law typically one party or the other has the burden of proof most of you have probably heard of that concept but what is it exactly what does burden of proof mean there are three commonly recognized standards when it comes to burden of proof one is called Beyond a reasonable doubt that
Burden of proof is typically used in criminal cases and it is the highest standard of burden of proof it means based on the evidence no other reasonable explanation exists the second standard is is clear and convincing this is not as high of a standard as Beyond a reasonable doubt it
Is typically used in civil matters sometimes for example job discrimination cases and then the third one is preponderance of the evidence that is the standard that is typically used in most civil lawsuits you are trying to meet the burden it’s really more than 50% that’s how we
Think of it the defendant for example is more than 50% responsible for the harm that is the subject of the lawsuit what does all this mean relative to your lost Sexton Firebird whether you’re in court or whether you’re in a disc golf course parking lot you must present evidence in
Order to win your argument and if your argument is that the Lost Sexton Firebird that someone has found is actually yours and that you are the true owner then yes I think having the disc bear your name and phone number would be pretty persuasive in your favor okay Robbie’s third question said
If I lose a disc and it lies in an area that prevents retrieval under normal circumstances such as a body of water is it considered lost what are the legal aspects of this situation and at what point would it be considered abandoned as opposed to lost so let me just quickly talk
About the difference between lost abandoned and mislaid items some common law definitions Define lost proper property as property that was unintentionally left behind by its true owner if your 2015 sex and Firebird fell out of your bag on the course or if you accidentally left it in
The basket when you aced with it that’s a lost item other definitions say property is generally deemed to have been lost if it is found in a place where the true owner likely did not intend to set
It down and where it’s not likely to be found by its true owner at common law the finder of a lost item could claim the right to possess the item against any person except the true owner and any
Previous possessors of the item even for lost items the true owner still has Superior rights in most cases however things that are lost may also acquire a new owner through possession Most states have statutory procedures in place for establishing ownership rights in Lost Property
These statutes generally require that the Lost Property be advertised for a period of time in an effort to notify the original owner if the original owner fails to claim the Lost item ownership rights can then vest in the individual who found the item so your state likely has a
Process where if the person that found your 2015 Sexton Firebird follows a procedure like running an ad in a local paper for a period of time and you never contacted the person and asked to come
Pick up your disc you’re likely out of luck and it now belongs to the person who found it contrast that with a slightly different term mislaid items the difference it’s kind of a gray area it’s very subtle it commonly arises when someone leaves clothing or accessories behind at a store or a
Restaurant in these situations the owner of the location where the item was left becomes the guardian of the property until retrieved on a disc golf course especially private disc golf courses this rule could be applied in certain situations which is why many private courses
Have policies and procedures in place relative to Lost discs found on their property after a reasonable amount of time without the owner coming to claim the item the guardian of the property may follow whatever the statutory procedure is in their state to establish ownership rights and
Again this varies from state to state the third category of property is abandonment if mislaid or lost items are abandoned the finder May retain the item and claim its ownership the key attribute here in abandonment is that the original owner must demonstrate an unequivocal intent to abandon
The property that intent can be inferred from conduct such as stopping looking for the item permanent leaving the geographical area where you lost the item those are just two examples now just because you stop looking for an item temporarily doesn’t automatically mean Abandonment for example
If you live in North Carolina and you go to the Ledgestone tournament in Illinois and you lose your 2015 Sexton Firebird by driving back to North Carolina after the tournament is over you’re likely taking pretty persuasive action demonstrating that the disc is abandoned and
You’re likely not getting it back on the other hand if you lose your disc in the woods at a local course and it’s getting dark you plan to come back in the morning to look again when it’s
Light I don’t think that suggests abandonment so Robbie yes if you lose the disc in a body of water where you can’t get to it if you stop looking for it and leave the geographical area there is a possibility it would be considered abandoned and no longer yours and finally Robbie’s fourth
Question was while some will see a lost disc as Trivial what obligations does the owner of the disc face in terms of reporting that the disc is lost and to whom would they report it if required and what obligations does somebody finding the disc have do they have a legal obligation to
Make attempts to return the disc well I’ll start with the second question if a disc is found if you are playing on a course particularly a private course that has rules in place for how lost discs
Are handled you’re under an obligation by playing that course to follow those rules so that would be the first thing that I would say would impose an obligation on someone that finds a lost disc many states often have laws stating that if you find something that has a value over a certain amount
Again that amount is set by state law varies from state to state you must turn it over to the police other states have said you’re guilty of theft if you find loss property and you have reasonable
Means to find the owner and make no attempt to do so generally speaking if no one claims the item in a certain amount of time you can go back to the police and claim it for yourself keep in mind that these rules and regulations we’ve been talking about here most recently would
Likely only apply in cases of items that have a value higher than a typical golf disc that’s partly why we used our hypothetical with the 2015 Sexton Firebird what about the obligations if you
Lose a disc well if you want to continue to search for your lost disc with hopes of getting it back make sure you avoid doing anything that would appear to be abandonment having your name and
Number on the disc helps maybe posting about it in a local online group or putting a sign up at the local course where you lost the disc would be a good idea because if you give up looking for it
And and someone eventually finds it it could be inferred that you abandon the disc and the finder might get to keep it so as always we’d love to hear from you what disc do you have in your bag
That you would go to any lengths to try to get back and have you ever lost one of those types of discs and if so what did you do or maybe you found one of those discs we’d love to hear what all of
You do around this issue please like comment subscribe and as always thanks for watching
20 Comments
I have no disc that I would go to any length to get back. That in mind, I throw a disc in water, unless it’s 5 or more feet deep, I’m going in. But if it’s over my neck then it’s gone. I have a Paul McBeth signed Buzzz that I throw, I’ve tossed it in the water, I got it back. I could see it, I wasn’t leaving it there. If it was to deep to get, she gone.
Loosers weepers, finders keepers. I have maybe 20 that weren't picked up in baskets or approach discs that weren't picked up. Depending if it's not a disc I want, max weight and a phone number I try to call them.
This shows how the original spirit of the sport is vanishing due to selfishness, greed, and the overvaluation of a piece of plastic. It was intended to be a gentleman's game.
"The most fun wins" – Ed Headrick
Like My Firebird Stamp Says
Maritime Law
Spoils Go To The Salvager
You Abandon Your Property
I Salvage It
I Now Own It ….end of subject
Finders Keeper
Loser Weeper
Our two local courses both have a heavy duty metal box with a slot in the top, and most people here are cool enough to drop a found disc in the box. The box is periodically opened, and the discs go to the local disc retailer. People can then stop by and pick up their disc. Who knows, they might even buy a new disc at the shop. This sounds much better than people trying to resell another person’s lost disc. I’m glad most disc throwers in this area hold a level of respect for other players, so we never really considered the ‘legal’ aspect.
Sounds complicated but it all seems to be covered by "don't take something that is not freely given to you".
Both my youngest son and I recognize and understand that if we lose a disc, no matter how expensive or sentimental, once we quit looking it's gone. It's not ideal especially for a teenager but it's reality sometimes.
I basically just turn in a lost disc to an area that has a return disc basket or Dropbox. Let that particular private golf course take care of it. I've tried personally handling returning discs and it's always been awkward.
8:13 So if I fished a valuable disc that a pro threw into a lake at a DGPT event, would it be considered abandoned after they left the area for the next tournament? And who would then be able to keep it legally?
I always thought the possession saying means if two are arguing over an object or something, the law will give preference to the one that's actually holding it.
This is very informative, but unfortunately I have never gotten a disc back. Even with number or going in local forums to report my missing discs. So I have after my experiences stopped giving back discs aswell. You win some, you loose some I guess.
I usually get back maybe 50% of my lost disc and those that I do, I always pay at least $5 or more depending on the disc for their trouble.
Its Just being nice plain and simple. Like returning a shopping cart.
What's better than getting a call about a lost disc.
I think every disc golfer has lost a sentimental disc and never got it returned, for this reason I call every time, including when I buy from the used bin.
But if you don't have your contact on there, it's unfair to put the obligation on the finder to "track down" the original owner, as I have had many players tell me you are required to do by disc golfer code. If I waded into freezing waters for my disc and found an unmarked one as a bonus, tough luck I've already earned it!
Who has a 2k disc in his bag on the course? Now I do have a CE Firebird (x) in my bag which could be worth some money but I never abandoned it. Was in the water once but I saw it and went in. Plus when we started we knew all the discgolfers so discs were always returned. There is a reason they call it a family….
Been playing 20 years now, will never care about returning discs unless person is still on the course. It is unreasonable to care that much. Have spent an hour looking for a disc dozens of dozens of times. Losing discs is part of playing disc golf. No one would return your basketball or golf club or tennis racket. It’s such an eye roll. Tbh if i find something as valuable as the sexton i would contact the number. That is an exceptional situation.
Disc golfers are by nature very awesome about getting discs back to owner
Soooooo….Maritime Law?
When a disc leaves your hand, is it lost? How many seconds, minutes,hours,days does it span before it’s lost? If you do not carry a receipt and someone finds it in on a path, how can you declare it’s yours?