EP.93: Dva metra, snovi, porodica, zastava, Ivana i Angelina 🗣 Marija Vuković

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Marija Vuković je jedna od najuspešnijih sportiskinja u Crnoj Gori. Ova devojka koja se bavi skokom u vis priča najiskrenije o svemu onome što nosi i atletika, i odnosi u njoj, i povrede…

Njen životni put nije bio lak. Ali je još teže bilo roditeljima koji su ipak uspeli da svoju porodicu koja je živela u Kninu, kratko u Srbiji i onda najveći deo u Crnoj Gori, sačuvaju od svih problema i izvedu na put troje dece.

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I started crying when they wrote that, it was one sentence, but in a way, like… Because they went through the same thing. I heard about Marija Vuković when she won a medal at the European Championship and somehow, I follow sports, not in great detail, but it was big news, so to speak,

Regardless of the fantastic success of Angeline Topić. However, I didn’t have the opportunity to meet her until 7-10 days ago when I sat with her sister Jovana Vuković, who told me; she used to be a basketball player and she’s a very interesting girl,

She told me that her sister is coming to support her because they both got injured. And I’m thinking, what should I do, what should I do, and I call Jovana, now I hope Jovana won’t be offended,

Marija has had a little more success than her, and I say, well if Marija is here, if she can come to the podcast. So I arranged an interview with Marija, who… it’s a bit of luck in misfortune that she left her second crutch yesterday.

So you came with one. Marija, thank you so much for coming. Thank you for the invitation, and I’m glad to be here. It’s not an ideal situation, but it’s fortunate that you’re here, among other things because of your sister,

Who is also recovering from knee surgery, but you came because of an injury and Jovana told me that your lives are a bit different, in the sense that you haven’t been injured until now and she has had knee problems multiple times and is going for surgery again.

Let me say, this year, well, I entered my 20th year of my career and it’s an Olympic year, of course, I hope it will be good. Last year, I had two injuries, so I have already accepted this second one as okay.

A little more opportunity to be at home, because I’m generally never at home, I’m not even with her and I don’t have the chance to stay for a longer period, so, it’s fortunate in misfortune that when I get injured, I always spend more time with my loved ones.

Who drove whom to therapy now, who is the bigger support now? Well, Jovana had her third surgery on the same knee, but I think this time, she was more injured than me. So Miloš was our support and he drove us wherever we needed to go, he was there for us.

Miloš carried all… these injuries on his back. Everything fell on him, both me and then my sister, but well, nothing is too hard for him, so thank him. Tell me, what injury is it, how long will you be absent now, and how much will it disrupt your preparations for the season that,”

If I’m not mistaken, you corrected me, this year there are three major athletics competitions. Well, it’s an injury to the fifth metatarsal bone, you know, some insignificant little bone, but actually it takes four to eight weeks to recover.

It’s already been three weeks, yesterday was three weeks, so I think that part of it has passed and it’s starting to heal a little, but I had to cancel the indoor season, that is, the World Indoor Championships, one of those major competitions.

But I sincerely hope that I will have more time to prepare for the outdoor season and that I will achieve the Olympic Games standard, and before that, there is also the European Championships, the standard for Rome is 192.

So, everything happens for a reason, I would say, and maybe this needed to happen so that I would have more time, I mean, they say not to have more time, because even when the injury happened, I was already in good form,

I felt good and we started jumping well in training, but there will be time until May to prepare properly and give my best in Paris. And tell me, did you feel the need and did you see the injury and everything as a moment when you could sleep, rest, lie down?

Well, no. I was just talking to my dad and he says, I know that you’re used to always being on the move, what bothered me the most is that I couldn’t go anywhere for a walk,

To get up normally, to go to the kitchen, to the bathroom, but it’s not that… Last summer when I had a calf injury, I had a fracture in my calf and that was the first major injury,

Really, thank God, so far in my career I’ve had sprained ankles, a little back pain and things like that, but that was the first bigger injury where I realized that for two months, of course I won’t be able to train,

I won’t be able to jump, I have to be careful because the calf is… And there, it seems to me, I fell into a bit of depression, I was like that for a month and well, what now, it’s just the beginning of the season and how will I handle it now?

Everyone will say, after Munich, it was expected that I would continue on that path, but it didn’t happen and I took it a little hard, I don’t know, I would say I faltered.

I would say that was the moment when I surrendered in terms of thinking, okay maybe this is it, maybe this injury is it, I have a year, it’s enough, but then when a month passed and that crisis period passed, I realized, no, I still love what I do and I still think I can show a lot,

A lot, how much exactly, we’ll see, but I still have that desire to give my best and reach those two meters that I talk about, not as a pressure, but I still feel that, that’s why I didn’t give up when this injury happened, I was like, okay, well, it is what it is, let’s move on, there’s time for everything because it didn’t happen at the beginning of the outdoor season, but already here where I have time.

To Paris, so yeah, we’ll see, I mean it’s not the end of the world. And she tells me, I got some information from reliable sources and you had your first life injury when you fell out of the crib?

Jovana. Yes, I was a restless child. And even today… like I’m not a child anymore. Jovana says that was a sign that she should pursue jumping. I think I broke my arm or something and then I burned myself with coffee.

Are you a lively person? Do you think that energy led you to athletics? I don’t know, I don’t believe so. I was a lively child and I always… And I was never like, and generally I don’t think we were really focused on sports that we had to do.

Or that our parents pushed us in a direction where we have to be. They always and often gave us wings in a way to choose our life and how we will live it. All three of us are on different sides. Jovana really tried in basketball and loves basketball.

I often say how sorry I am because Jovana is more into basketball and knows more and somehow has that hunger for basketball more than I have for athletics. I say thank God, God gave me both talent and somehow the work to be able to follow why I was created.

She didn’t have that luck because of injuries, but she still follows athletics, basketball for all that. And now she is still involved, sending students who want to train basketball to the territory of Europe Atlet+.

And I’m glad she started that, that she finally found something that is basketball, that she is not far from sports and what she loves. Yes, that’s how we met. Yes, we were just talking about that. Well, one of the pitfalls of the job is that you find out some information.

And that’s how I found out from Jovana that Sava Drezgić is going to America. Jovana’s company was involved in that and they should be support. And we talked a little about how to do it. Well, I’ve known that for two, three weeks already. The company announced it just a few days ago.

So that’s how Jovana and I met. But I wanted to ask you, since Jovana is also extremely tall, did you notice from an early age that you were extremely tall and somehow thought about sports in that sense or simply because you loved sports? Does that maybe play a role?

First thing, we grew up only at the end of elementary school. Around the eighth grade of elementary school, we suddenly separated from our generation.” Until then, we were of normal height. But as for Jovana, she started doing sports, basketball, very late. I started in fifth grade, and when I moved to Bar,

Because of the conditions and everything, I moved to Bar and she told her parents, like, I don’t see her any differently, I will go with her to Bar to live. And like, mom and dad, like, okay, fine. And they really let her, so I enrolled in the fourth grade of high school,

She was still in the third, so we spent some time together in Bar and she only started training basketball in Bar. And it wasn’t, I think it wasn’t because of height, but just, I would say a combination of circumstances more than us being enthusiastic about it. That’s how they discovered our talent.

Is David, your brother, also tall? I think he is the same height as us, I was convinced he would grow, that he would be over two meters, but no. And he tried to play basketball, like his sister Jovana, but he went into medicine, he’s the smart one in the family. Our doctor.

Where does he live? They are in Belgrade, the two of them live in Belgrade. Jovana because of work, David because of studies. Well, I don’t know if… If it’s because of work. Whether it’s just because of work, I mean, we have to… We’ll all see.

And I wanted to tell you, since you’re in Athens and you mentioned it, I watched a bit with Igor and Vlada, right? Yes, I did, I did. You really enjoyed their podcast. I wanted to ask you, and you mentioned that separation. And Jovana says that having company is very important to you,

That friends and the people around you are important. So tell me, how do you cope with that? In general, athletics is an individual sport. I have always been, even since I was little, really too much. Sometimes Jovana, I joke with her about how boring she was,

She never wanted to play and stuff like that. But, um, I have changed places and clubs quite a bit,” Not so much about the clubs, but about the coach and therefore, the team I trained with. The team, meaning a few people who train with that one coach.

But somehow, it was only in Greece, in 2019 when I went there, that I found myself and that was the energy that was similar to the energy in my group of friends. Something where we are all together, supporting each other, but the separation from my people, I would say my people,

Since we are always in different places, and the people I want to spend my time with are always somehow far away. And there are rare moments when I see them and that’s really the hardest thing for me, it hurts. I am alone and I am used to it.

When someone asks me, how can you stay away from home like that, I am really used to it, and my family is used to it too, seeing us once or twice a year and it’s like, we have a good time, but dad often says it would be nice if we spent time together,

But everyone goes their own way and creates their own life. We are here, God willing, for it to last, but I’m glad that we are seeking our own happiness and finding our way wherever it may be. But on the other hand, I think those moments

When we reunite with our loved ones mean more. We know how to appreciate them more. And when I meet with Jovana and David, they exist, I don’t know how many times, I think it means more than if we were together every day and probably in the hustle and bustle of Belgrade

We wouldn’t even look at each other that much. It seems to me. When you mentioned Athens, that woman, if I’m not mistaken, Joana, she tells me, you worked with male coaches before. And I won’t ask you how much you weigh now, because I know that’s… Feel free… I stopped now.

But tell me, I’m first interested in your relationship with a female coach, that’s interesting to me because different girls have different impressions of the female referees, for example.” Andrea Lekic said that it was unusual and that she found it easier to communicate with male referees than with women.

For example, Jovana Brakočević talked about how at one point she didn’t even think about it, because she wants to be a coach, she didn’t even think about coaching men, then she said why not. And in this case with Joana, for whom you said the nicest things. Yes, and that’s interesting to me.

Do you think the reason is because she is a woman or simply her personality? I don’t think that’s the reason. I think that I have also changed coaches a lot, I was really searching for myself in all that growing up in athletics, in changing environments and the way people

Generally live in those communities. It wasn’t really about that coach but everything around that change and in a way, you also look at yourself to adapt somewhere where it’s not your area, not your people. But I think Jovana was different because she somehow had that freedom and she was a good person.

At that moment, I felt some energy from her and the whole team had a nice atmosphere. I mean, there were more women than men, there was one guy in the group then. But unfortunately, I changed Joana again even before the World Championships in Budapest.

Again, a combination of circumstances, I don’t know how it goes. When I was supposed to break up with her, I had just hoped that I had found someone and she really suited me for four years. I had really nice four years and in terms of results, generally how I felt in Athens.

I had to make a change and again, a male coach, Vasilikos Dimitris. And really, he’s a good guy and has good energy. I feel good energy with him. So I don’t think, at least for me, I don’t think it’s about male-female.” I’ve clicked with someone or who was somehow a good person.

Did you set the same condition for him as you did for Joani? No. He already, since we train in the same gym, I stayed, because when we decided to end our collaboration, I said, let’s not change again and adapt to a new environment, because it’s another adjustment.

I’m not as excited about all of this anymore and I don’t want that part at least, because the Olympic Games are approaching and I didn’t want that much stress on myself. But he knew, as I said, he knew me when I was training with Topić,

So I went to Athens, because we were going for preparations at that time, that was in 2010-11. And he was somehow happy to train me, which meant a lot to me at that moment. Well, it didn’t go well for us with this injury and I came back after the calf injury,

But I hope we’ll create a good… Good atmosphere until Paris. Now I’m mentioning that ultimatum, that demand you have, and that’s what you said, Joani, she asks me for everything. I mean, you know… Yes, but the viewers don’t know. Do you want to say? Yes, I mean, it really was a topic,

Like a taboo topic, it wasn’t a taboo topic, because everyone somehow knew it in general, that athletics is like that, and it is in a way, the lighter you are, the better you can jump, easier to clear the bar. And I was really a skinny child, and I never had problems with that,

And during puberty, I really had a lot of problems with that. I would say that they became more of a psychological problem than weight problems, because even then, I don’t think I was “fat”, I wasn’t overweight for my height, but for high jump, it really…

And I think I struggled with that for 6-7 years for sure, maybe even still sometimes, and really…” It wasn’t that I had had enough, like I said, he demanded everything from me, I would do anything, just don’t mention my weight, she was fine with it,

And really, after that, I never had any problems with weight again, I didn’t… Here, it’s been five years now, since I’ve been in Greece, and I’ve never felt like I have to go on a diet, because I want to lose a few pounds, because you don’t put pressure on yourself,

Like your whole life revolves around a glass of water or what you ate or drank, but rather to enjoy what you do and strive to give your best. I mean, it was a difficult way to get there and learn, that’s why I said,

I think I said a few times, in the sense that it’s also the coach’s task. Especially if you’re a coach to someone who is 17-18 years old and going through puberty, it’s not just about being thin and jumping, but about teaching me how to live my life, to make it

A way of life, not something scary and if tomorrow I become a coach or if I do something related to athletics or something that leads to that, I think that will be the first thing for the child to be relaxed and to enjoy it,

Not to enjoy it, eat and do whatever you want, to reach the desired weight or whatever it may be. Now I have a bunch of questions. How is the ideal weight perceived? I don’t think there is… Defend your side … Yes, I’ve always been lecturing, well yes,

You have to say that because you can’t lose weight then it’s easier for you to say this and that, because probably there isn’t. I agree that being lighter in terms of having less fat is true, but I really had a few competitions where I didn’t starve myself, I wasn’t like some

Oliva and I still jumped well. And that we are all different, that I’m not Blanka Vlašić.” Like when they compared me to her, I mean even though Blanka Vlašić is at the top of high jump and someone who is… and who should be a role model in all of that,

But everyone is an individual on their own. And if something suits her and she can handle it, maybe I can’t. That’s exactly it, you get to know your body and look for what suits you the most. Maybe I need a little more strength,

Maybe I need to be a little faster and maybe with all that I have, I can have a kilo or two more, maybe I don’t have to. The least weight since 2010, the first time I had so little weight, were the Olympic Games.

Which was like wow to me, because I was so excited about all of that, I didn’t think about weight at all, I did everything I needed to do and just knowing that I had less weight, I was more spirited.

And actually, there is no, at least for me, maybe there really is for others and I know that other high jump athletes are slimmer, there are also those that I say when I was searching, I always compared myself. And then I realize I’m comparing myself to someone who is 1.80m tall

And like she is slim, how is she slim. With what I have 1.92, I can’t be like her, the way she looks. My leg is longer, so I can’t be that slim. So, some things that I tried to get out of my head,

Because when they are in your head, you realize that my focus wasn’t on high jump, but my focus was on appearance. Which in the end doesn’t help me in that competition, it only hinders me. 20 hours on a plane and 14,000 km just to watch one basketball player.

This guy has traveled so much because of Šej Gildžeous Aleksandar. Jokić and Embid are talking about it, because the Oklahoma basketball player is currently third on the MVP list. Jokić recently said about him: He’s causing problems in this league. Dončić said earlier: He’s one of the best in the world.

And Šej is quite free in dressing, but on the court it’s completely different. Although he shows it through his sneakers, his individuality. These are some of the models he wears.” And his shoes are completely worn out, you can’t even buy them on the Converse website.

Šeji is one of the most significant characters in the NBA league, but it’s a little easier for him because he doesn’t have Alekse Avramović, who stole two balls from him in the World Cup semifinals last summer. Nevertheless, Šeji is the future of the NBA and already one of the best.

Oklahoma is leading in the West, mainly because of this 21-year-old Canadian. Yes, I was thinking about what you said about these two guys, maybe you mentioned that competition… Yes, comparing… and that it bothered you to be compared to others. Yes.

Do you think that people in general, or in sports, is it a common trap to compare yourself to others and that someone might fall into its jaws? Well, I believe it is. I mean, I look at it from my perspective, and I’m always like,

Well, how, why… Jovana often says: Come on, become aware of yourself and it will be easier for you. But, I really think, maybe not just in sports, but in life as well, people compare themselves and maybe I want your life, or everyone looks at someone else’s yard, thinking it’s nicer and easier,

But really, clearly, it’s definitely a trap. I mean, we have, I can preach as much as I want now, but tomorrow during the competition I’ll think the same thing, because, well, that’s how sports is, and I’ll say, okay, well, she’s thinner… then I try, like, well, I’m ready too,

It doesn’t matter that someone is thinner, but there are things that, you know, stay with you for a lifetime, and again, Jovana often tells me, like, you’re going to have a problem when you stop training, because, you know,

I mean, I haven’t trained for three weeks now, and I feel like, I mean, I gained weight, I mean, I think those are things, okay, injuries are like that, they linger, or this is like that… But the traps are something we need to fight against ourselves.

I mean, you realize that it doesn’t lead you anywhere. Yes. I watched that jump at the European Championship, and you were smiling before the jump. Yes. That really stuck with me, I watched it this morning, that was my motivation to watch it,

Because you said somewhere that you really enjoyed it, that you relaxed.” First, I would go back to the year before, because I think it all started from there, anyway, in Smederevo, when there was the Balkan Championship, that was my last chance to achieve the Olympic Games standard.

I’ve already mentioned that I’ll keep it short, they had already announced the lists, I was already on the lists (I had a ticket for the Olympic Games). I was angry, why was I on the lists, I wanted to maybe try to achieve the standard, and there I jumped 197.

And that was really the most precious competition for me, because Jovana was there too, and it was here, at home, which felt like I was at home. And after that, the Olympic Games and the qualifications where I, I felt the same as in Munich, in terms of relaxation and enjoying every jump.

And that was something that kept me going, which wasn’t there in the final, because there was some pressure, now everyone expects you to be in the final, come on, now…but Munich was really the competition of my life, it seems to me. Because, yes, the first medal in senior competition,

Something I’ve been striving for all these years. And I remember after the World Championships in Oregon, which was a month before Munich, where I didn’t make it to the final by one or two places, I don’t know….But I said there, like, well, I don’t deserve to be in the final,

What am I doing here, I don’t know…I was like, I don’t know how to high jump. And then I gathered myself, composed myself and said: “OK, I want to enjoy.” And that was literally for all those days of training, I just said I want to give my best and enjoy,

Whatever happens and I won’t put pressure on myself to achieve something. And it really was, I mean, the final lasted a long time. It lasted for two hours while everyone took their turns, while there were 13 of us in the final.

And I jumped everything in the first round until 195, where I knocked it down twice, but I don’t know, I knocked everything down…I said, I’ll take it easy. If I’m here now, I’ll jump easily over these 195. And then I got lost, I got lost in that moment

And the third height came and I just remember,” I just looked at the bar and said, that’s it, I’ve been feeling all day that this is your moment, don’t mess it up because of some silly bug that gets in your head… and I just… No, it really is an indescribable feeling.

And I don’t think I’m as excited as I usually am, to give it my all.. If it had been 197 cm it would have been completely fair to jump… but oh well. I was more than grateful for those 195. and in second place, and it’s really nice to remember,

Because I often forget and then when these moments come, when it doesn’t go well, then like… Jovana says, whom we often mention, but without her this can’t go on, Jovana says, sorry now, I’ll quote her, I mean I didn’t say this, I quote, it will be easier… Go ahead.

You say that you don’t appreciate your success and your work enough and yourself in a way. Do you share her opinion? Yes, yes, I mean, I share it, I don’t know why it’s like that, because she often… she knows how to push me in that direction,

As I said, she becomes my psychologist and moral support, it really is like that, because even in moments when I didn’t believe in myself, she was there to push and say: “Enjoy it and what now, whether it happens or not…” but she knows how to say it nicely and in a way that

It really turns out like that in the end. But definitely, she’s right, but I think it’s just because, for that reason, I don’t like myself as something (to push), because she’s always been like my whole life: “Oh, my Marija is jumping high…” She’s like that, but no. And then I feel ashamed,

Like no. But yes, because when I achieved that great success in 2010, I really wasn’t aware of how big that success was and I was really just a child and I did it because I liked high jump and I liked the feeling of jumping over the bar

And I didn’t see any life benefit in it, so to speak, because today I live for it” And that’s something that brings me some financial security, besides the fact that I can say that people appreciate me in terms of those sporting achievements, but after that, I think,

I mean, I think, precisely because of the changes in coaches and environments, I feel like I lost myself somewhere and that it was a long period where I didn’t have any results, but I somehow always persevered. I don’t know how to describe it, I never gave up and said

Oh no, this is not for me, and even if I thought so, I still somehow kept going to training and like even if it doesn’t work out, I still love doing it to love and to train and to want. Okay, but for that reason, because I got lost there

And wherever I went, with whichever coach I went, there was always someone else who was better and if at that moment I were better than that person from that country (where the coach is from and where we train) in the country where that person trains with their coach

I felt bad if I was better, because like shame, like he will say… because that’s how it was, it really was to be honest, a few times I even had it like then people start talking that the coach pays more attention to me

Than, but that wasn’t true, and then I get a little lost and withdraw and even if, I mean maybe it’s not that, I’m just giving it as an example… why sometimes I don’t know how to be like: “Well, okay, I did it and I did it.” Not like I’m bragging about it

But as something that is, that’s how life goes. But no, I think again on the other hand, this thing that I’m watching, is my life, my whole life is athletics and a priority, but I always like to say that it’s also my hobby and something that I do out of love

That someone doesn’t have to see me as, I don’t know some superstar who is something… Because people I mean, maybe when I say that, I’m saying it like: “Why are you philosophizing, Marija, why are you being so smart now…” but we have an example at home with our parents

Who have been through so much, no one gives them an award for that or to people who have been through the same and they never pushed themselves forward. Or that we push ourselves forward and think we’re important, because we’re not…”

And then I think maybe that’s why, me who has a better understanding of all that I always tell her, you never know how you would behave if you achieved something like that because it’s easy to talk, to lecture me, in the sense of lecturing me to be a better person, but

Maybe she would behave the same way because she wouldn’t want to be something important in something that… Yes, but you see, to you, modesty it’s almost like… Shame that I achieved something… It often happens like I don’t know why, no I am proud, I love what I have done, but it often happens

Like: “Well, others shouldn’t feel less worthy”… I mean… Although I don’t see anyone like that and that was like if someone says it then it will be that someone maybe isn’t… Oh, you know, when someone makes a mistake on TV, I also assume

That you are like that, when someone makes a mistake on television you change the channel, like shame. Well, not, not that much, but like, more related to me so that I don’t hold back too much maybe that’s why it pulls this other thing, but I still love it when I achieve some success

And I prefer to achieve it because Jovana and David and my people… They are like: “Wow, what have you accomplished.”… and then my heart is full, I don’t know. Do you talk during the competition with the girls who are your competitors?

Well, yes, I mean I’m easygoing about that, although when there are bigger competitions they are also… I mean, more concentration and you focus on everything, for example European, yes, stand there a bit, what I was training with her at that moment,

A Greek girl, but I have no problem, I mean, it seems to me that it doesn’t distract me if it’s normal to chat about something, I don’t know, but I think I’m not bothering and that it’s all normal. Sorry, I’m asking some trivial questions, because I find it interesting.

Do you measure the number of steps you need to… from the starting point to the jumping point? Yes, yes, yes. How many steps do you take? Well, there, in Mihin it was 43 plus 27, so that’s 70. 43, 27, 70.

70 steps, with a little run-up, depending. And now, again, we asked Vlado Igor about that, and I always said in that interview like I don’t know, I don’t know, I said I don’t know for everything, and like, I don’t know in what way, no way…”

Do you have any rituals that you do, you don’t have to reveal them, but to get into that focus, that concentration before a jump? Well, I don’t. I mean, basically, if I’m relaxed, if everything is fine, I don’t have to, everything is…

Sometimes it even happens that I’m not in the mood and that, I mean, I can’t jump well, so there are no rules for that. The important thing is that I have trained well. Sometimes the mind messes up, sometimes it’s present…

And when it’s the hardest for you, do you call Jovana or someone else? Well, basically Jovana, for everything. When it’s good and when it’s bad, I think Jovana is there. She sometimes feels me more than I feel her, because I’m always like that, he he ha ha.

And dad also says, well, child, we can’t handle everything like that, everything is great and it will be wonderful, fantastic. Maybe that’s my way, like, it’s easier for me than what, I mean. I annoy sometimes. I annoy and I can be boring and like, oh, maybe it won’t happen.

But yeah, Jovana is someone who knows how to, like, slap you and (to) bring a little reality. Which I often say, you’re really, like, harsh. Sometimes I call you to tell me a little to, like, comfort me, okay.

But actually, it’s better that way. Now we’ve already learned, so I know that’s her way and I’m glad she’s here. That she knows how. When you gave that TEDex talk and talked about your life, what was your desire to convey to someone who is listening?

What was maybe the biggest thing that you think people can learn from your life? Well, definitely it was not to give up, because there was a long series of years where people definitely knew more about my life than I did myself.

Especially about that weight; related to why I wasn’t jumping at that moment. And generally, I think people give themselves a lot of rights, it’s just that I’m a little more mature now so it doesn’t affect me as much.

But I think that was it, not giving up and that you don’t have to step on someone to make something that is already written for you somewhere. And if you believe enough, because I often mention that I really didn’t achieve this on my own.

I changed several coaches and I learned how my body functions and what suits me and I even listen to those people. But also to listen to Jovana when she says something, but really until I myself understood and I

Live that life, sometimes it’s easier, sometimes it’s harder, but really with faith in God it somehow… it didn’t fall so hard on me, because when you are aware of these things happening, I really believe that everything happens. For some reason, it became easier for me to overcome certain things.

I am still learning and there is still a lot to be done, but I think that’s exactly what people need, to believe in what they do, to find that spark that keeps them going.

I said it in a philosophical way, but really, they need to find their own spark, the reason why they get up in the morning. It shouldn’t be because Marko or Janko said so, but because I feel that I want to wake up in the morning

And go to training, and believe that I will participate in the Olympic Games tomorrow and wave to my audience there. For example, things like that, it definitely means something.

I hope you understood the essence of my whole story, but I know that after TEDex, there were many people who cried, who said, “Get out of my way, why isn’t it like that?”

Surprisingly, I didn’t cry, because usually when I talk like that and talk about my life in that way, from the beginning of my career, I always had a lump in my throat, but somehow I was happy that I managed to express it all at once.

I did it all, it wasn’t an interview, which usually makes it easier when you ask yourself questions, I will answer that, but this was already compact and nice to say.

Did it help you? I don’t know when that speech was, but did it help you that you, for example, went to that higher teacher’s school, so maybe you applied something from relationships, upbringing, something you would pass on to someone else?

I don’t think so. I finished that in Novi Sad, but no. Definitely, it’s the sport itself and the changes, and I learned from everyone, from everything a little bit. The good and the bad sides.

The good and the bad sides, but mostly from my parents. The way they raised us, that’s definitely something. And even David, my brother, he helped me the most in which direction my speech should go.

Because the TEDex principle is to prepare, to have… Before that, Marijeta was supposed to be our assistant to help us write the speech.

To help us figure it out. I told her, I will write a part. Then I gave up. I said, I don’t know how to write this because I read it as if I’m talking about your life. I don’t feel like I’m…

I will tell it. Well, sometimes on stage, you make mistakes… If it goes well, great. If not, I will embarrass myself, it will stay somewhere, and that’s it.

And the night before the speech, David spent two hours with me, saying this, remove that, definitely include this, and in the end, he made it much easier for me. But I think it’s a little bit of everything and maybe a bit of the teacher’s school too.

If you were to train a girl or a boy someday, what would be the first thing you would tell them? Or her, of course. To enjoy. Were there moments when you didn’t enjoy? There were. Which was the hardest for you?

There were quite a few. It wasn’t just one moment, it was literally a season of not enjoying. And there were definitely more. It was that period from 2012 to around 2000… I think it was until 2015. I had already enrolled in college by then, so I found myself in a different world

But there were moments. There were many moments when I really thought and said… someone is… I said it once, that’s how I felt, and when I read it I really realized that it was true, that I valued myself based on how high I jumped.

That’s the worst thing that can realistically happen to athletes. I think. I mean, the worst. In the sense that life goes on after sports. And we are so immersed in that sport that we forget

That okay, I can be capable even if I haven’t finished college, thank God I have, but maybe I won’t work, I will never work in a kindergarten, but I still learned some things and I believe that we all

Are capable, that while we train we need to be aware that life is not just about sports. I mean, I often say now, what am I going to do now, how will I know, like if I have to finish something tomorrow

At the municipality. I mean, that’s how I behave because in sports everything is somehow… Organized. As much as it can be. Unorganized is at a maximum… Yes. In what I, what I do, but it’s organized. If you go to a competition, people take care of your ticket,

Accommodation, everything, you just show up. When I say I have to plan where we’re going on vacation, I mean, I don’t go. I’ve never been because it just happens, but like I don’t know how to organize.

I mean, like, how to find a hotel, who is, well… I mean, those are some things that I think… No matter how much I learn in sports, outside of sports, we still think we’re incapable.

I mean, I’m not speaking for everyone because people are different. I thought for a long time that I wouldn’t know how to manage when I finish athletics. Well, just 7-8 more years, and then you’ll… Paris, and maybe we’ll go for a few more years.”

But does it give you motivation, for example, that Ivana Španović lasts, for example, you know her, that she lasts so long, does it tell you, well, like Ivana Španović, 36-37 years old, world champion,

And besides that, it seems to me now, of course, I’m just a layman talking to you, it seems to me that you are starting to reach your peak, whether from collaborating with those people who suited you, whether from some maturity, around the age of 30.

So, it’s not like you reached your peak at 24, like, oh, we’ll see. So, it seems to me that it’s an upward trajectory. Now, does that give you any motivation and spark, for example, what we were talking about? Well, definitely, there are really athletes in athletics, athletes who have, you know,

Literally shown hats off, Ivana is one of them, definitely. Her career even started earlier, in the sense that it lasted. And she also showed that everything is possible. And, you know, when they write about it, that’s exactly what I am, even after Mihen and her and, Sandra Perković, who are, you know, names.

I cried when they wrote that. It was one sentence, but in a way, like, because they went through the same thing. I can’t, maybe compare myself to Ivana or Sandra, who have so many medals and so much they have achieved, but in a way, definitely, that everything is possible.

And that, you know, when you believe in yourself and when you have the right people around you, definitely, everything is possible. I had that, I can say, partly misfortune, maybe even luck, because it was probably meant to be that way, but misfortune because I didn’t have that one person

That one coach who was there from the beginning to the end, you know, we know each other. Which they had in a way and it was probably a difficult path, no one can know that except them and I know a part of the journey,

But definitely, when she won the medal this year, even in the past, but when she won the medal in Budapest, that was really, hats off. And it certainly is a great motivational moment for all other athletes, including myself.

How do you see this year? When we talked a bit about it for this interview, you said let’s focus on the Olympic Games.” Is your focus this year actually on the Olympic Games? Well, they are definitely the focus. Even after Tokyo, the focus is on Paris.

Just like I said, it can’t be planned. Because I expected to start the year differently, that things would go a little better than the past year, which wasn’t the brightest, especially after Munich, but those are the setbacks that happen not only in sports but in life as well.

I think I realized that because of these two injuries, that I still want Paris. I still believe that I should be focused on the Olympic Games and I am sure that I will give my best. Whether I will go to them and whether it will be my career competition, I don’t know.

None of us can know what will happen, but I am sure that I will give my all and I am motivated enough to do that. So I hope that I will have it because usually even when an injury like this happens,

Then there’s this thing, what will the Federation say, what will these people say, what will those people say, which in a way shouldn’t concern me because that’s how sports is. I’m not a robot and these things happen, but still I want, like all of us,

It would be nice, the nicest, if it goes with a constantly upward trajectory and without any external complications, but definitely the focus is on Paris, before that Rome, and I hope it will be a beautiful story. Is it burdensome for you that people now see you as a person who…

Maybe I can compare you to, I don’t know, Novak or water polo players, in the sense that one nation lives for one person and considers… Do you understand what I’m trying to say? Well, Marija, now when you raise the flag of Montenegro, we want that, it’s for us,

We dream about it and I think, even though you want to give your best and give everything you have, but you carry the expectations of who knows how many people on your shoulders. Is that a problem? In a way, my luck is that I’m not in Montenegro that often,

So I don’t feel it as much and I’m sincerely glad about that, because I would probably be like, well, no, why, how? But I only felt that for the first time after the Olympic Games in Tokyo.” Because until then, I thought, okay, I’m jumping for myself, for Montenegro,

But like, athletics is not something popular here and like, who cares? I mean, not like who cares about what I do, but really, why would people be so interested in volleyball players, basketball players, but after the Olympics I really realized that even those kids, and little kids who want to,

Can do athletics, but they have nowhere to do it here. Unfortunately. They are thrilled with what I have achieved, that people really recognize me on the street, which was a shock to me, because how suddenly, so what, everyone followed the Olympic Games like high jump… but it’s a nice feeling.

On the other hand, it is pressure, precisely because of these things, when things don’t go as we think they will, but again, it’s something that maybe pushes you, like well, it’s not over yet, I didn’t get injured like this,

Now I’m going to lie down for five months, I don’t care, because I don’t care. First, I don’t care about myself, and then also because of those people, it’s a nice feeling, like after the Olympics, and after Munich, coming home and being aware that there are children

Who want to train and that there are people who are proud of what you have achieved and that the flag was waving somewhere far away, I mean, far away, it wasn’t far in Munich, but as we recognized each other somewhere, so it is definitely a nice feeling.

It’s not pressure for me, it used to be sometimes, because I used to burden myself, but I don’t think that’s pressure, because why would it be? Sometimes there are a few expectations, but as long as we are okay with ourselves, that’s not pressure, I would like it to be better, we all would,

But if it doesn’t go well, it’s not something to condemn, because often, I say before it was like they used to judge and that period that all athletes go through, when things don’t go well, then you’re not good for anything, but I think that somehow after the Olympics and after Munich,

Even when I wasn’t good, this past year, which, there really weren’t any competitions to write something bad about, because I wasn’t able to jump,” I definitely didn’t feel any judgment at any moment. I mean, like a bad comment, but I didn’t really notice,

But it was like, I was surprised how people would react, and the reactions were actually positive, okay, it happens, let’s move on, we still believe in you, which in a way showed me that what I achieved two years before, was more significant than those few months that didn’t go well.

I see you came all dressed in Adidas gear. How important are sponsors for, let’s say, lesser-known sports? Well, I didn’t have my own sponsor throughout my entire career, even though I tried, even when I became the world junior champion in 2010, no one paid attention to that,

I mean, I wasn’t even aware of what it meant, until Smederevo and the Olympic Games, when that Greek girl or the Slovenian I was training with at the time, I mean, we’re friends now, since she has been working with Adidas for ten years, I said I would try, little by little,

I waited, I signed the contract even after her, so it wasn’t even before the Olympic Games, it was a bit harder, coming from Montenegro, not being Greek, not being that important maybe, I would say, but because of my results, they probably had the courage to sign the contract.

I mean, I’m really glad about what it means, in the sense that we don’t have to think about sprinting shoes, we don’t have to think about training gear, it’s a nice feeling when you’re a little bit branded and you come and appear

At a competition. I mean, it’s not important, but it’s a nice feeling. Yes, yes, I know, even from talking to other athletes, you know what the uniform is like, what our training gear is like, even though these athletes have money, but it’s important to them. Yes, it’s important.

So those things, I mean, important. You really defined it well, it’s nice, it’s a nice feeling. It’s nice, because, I mean, we’ve been talking about it for so long, because Montenegro is really a small country, and there are only a few of us, the Čarakovićs, athletes at those bigger competitions,”

And when we went to that competition, we often, often felt miserable. I mean, we were good too, as athletes we deserved, the five of us, to go there, but somehow when we got there, everyone was all dressed up, they had coaches, physiotherapists,

But we arrived as if we had come to Montenegro for a competition. Us. And it really was like that for years, they sent us like that, unfortunately, because athletics is not promoted enough here, because not enough investment is made in it, unfortunately, even after

Some of the bigger results that a few of us achieved, I’m afraid it’s not going in the right direction, no matter how much I talk, I remember after… Even after Tokyo, and after Mihjan, it was always like mention the stadium, mention, mention, because I’m supposed to say that,

Because I’m in a position to do so, it’s not, I will say it. But we have to be aware that it’s not just about saying, it’s not just about the equipment I received, and then these people sometimes say, well, you have a manager now,

You’re going to the Diamond League now, you’re now, I mean, well… I mean, I went through 18 years without all that and now you have to, you know, and now you have to, like, some people don’t know that in a way I can’t be ungrateful because

Before us, the five or six of us who really made it to the big athletics scene, there was no one to push. We always had a few people who appeared before my generation and they were great guys, but athletics as such is not interesting to anyone.

I remember when I was trying to find a sponsor myself, since they from the Athletics Association said they had tried everything, but they couldn’t find one. And then I went to that ball and, well, I’ll become a beggar if someone wants to.

I mean, to me it was like, so now I have to beg someone to be my sponsor, which is ugly, again, you have no other option. And I remember at that time I was like a few people I talked to said, sponsors already and their names,

It’s not worth it for them to sponsor athletics,” Because when we appear once, it’s barely visible on our jersey, I jump five times, but when it comes to handball, basketball, the match lasts as long as it lasts, that’s a bit… But I was fortunate that the electricity company of Montenegro,

Has been with me for the second, third year now, I hope they will be until Paris, and that’s it. But it’s really, in a way, I mean, I would say, sad that people don’t recognize, that they don’t do enough of what…

I have never, to be honest, chased after that and it wasn’t my goal, because I didn’t start because of that, or to be the one who only collects money, to put it aside, money is not the point. I mean, my point is that no one remembers, to say, man, you’ve achieved this success,

You haven’t made anyone in Montenegro, let’s help. I mean, but… It’s not up to me, it’s not up to the Federation, it’s not…definitely, it’s also because I’m not in Montenegro so often, which was also a big problem if I don’t train in Montenegro, then it’s not in their interest

If I can’t promote them there, how will I promote them in Greece, they don’t care. But, deal with it, I really can’t complain. It would be nice if something could change at least until the Olympics, so that it’s not all on the athletics federation which is also struggling with what it gives,

Especially when there’s an injury or something, again, all that… I mean, the Olympic Committee is there as a level above the athletics federation and they are really unparalleled, but the Olympic Committee is not someone who is responsible for certain things. It’s there to push you to Paris for basic things, but…

It would be nice if athletics could be promoted in that sense, if not for me, I have somehow survived all these years and I can say in a nice way that I have achieved results, even though there was no support in terms of sponsors.

I hope for future generations, God willing, if there are any and if they want to pursue it, considering that we don’t have the conditions for anyone to push it a little more, but why not.” For future generations, maybe that can be improved, that athletics can be compared to team sports.

Yes, I forgot to mention the sponsors at the beginning. Here, Igor, thanks of course to Merkurik Stipe, thanks to Vernjan, but I just wanted to ask you two more things towards the end. The first thing is, tell me, girls and women in sports, what is the main problem compared to men, for example,

Where do you see if there can be a physiological problem, if there can be a problem that some girls want to it’s not even grateful, and now because of your career you have to postpone some things like school, but also things like motherhood or something,

How much life has given, maybe it has also taken some things away. How do you see that and how could it be easier for girls and women to go through that period in sports? Okay, Miloš is here, Miloš will be there, he will drive and so on,

As support, but others can’t do everything. You also have to do something yourselves, but how can it be made easier for you? I really think that women and girls in sports are quite strong, it’s not like, men, those predispositions that men have

And we don’t, but when it comes to perseverance and fighting till the end and pushing to the maximum, I really believe that women and I know a lot of women in sports who are dragons. And for that reason, from that perspective, I often used to say,

I didn’t always think about it, I was childish for a long time and didn’t think about the things that follow after athletics because that was all I thought about, but I definitely think that it’s harder for women in that sense because okay,

If I want to train and say I will jump high for another five years because maybe my body can handle it, I mean the man next to me needs to understand and accept that, not understand, we understand, but accept that it’s

Not in the sense that I’m ungrateful and I don’t want it at some point, but it’s something that yields results, it builds you as a person in a way, it provides some material security and why should something beautiful and maybe with a nice story be interrupted?”

Because of certain things that are important in our lives, they are too important to be interrupted like that either not interrupted or inserted somewhere to fit into something and that’s a matter of agreement. I also said

I don’t want to think about the end of my career as long as my body listens to me but I am also aware that I’m not 25 anymore, I’m 37 and just like you said I only started jumping at the age of 27-28, that’s when I started reaching my peak

And I would love to be able to say, great, I want to jump at the Olympic Games and then get married and have children and I would love for it to be like that, but if if my body can still be used because sports don’t last forever

That’s the point in male-female whatever, maybe even men can do more with it than us women but I think sports don’t last forever and that this can be endured by not only men but also us women that it can somehow be

Of course, in mutual agreement, maybe some woman will say I want a child so I will continue or not but I don’t know how it can be helped because in my mind it’s like okay sports are such that doors open for you until a certain point then you continue with your life

If I decide to close those doors now, maybe in five years I mean, in five years they definitely won’t open, but at some point when you think like okay, let me secure everything else that is important in life and what is really number one in life

Generally when you think about it, sports is a different thing maybe those doors will never open, maybe those opportunities that I have taken advantage of wouldn’t open now if that were the case so I’m glad I took advantage of those opportunities

I hope they will open so that I can make the most of this year but I think there are no rules it’s just from person to person how they want it and how things unfold whether it’s easy or difficult, definitely as my dad says, it will be difficult when you stop

Which is true because changing 20 years of training and a way of life will definitely be difficult but I don’t think finding support is that difficult some of us understood the message maybe not everyone understood it because I come from philosophy no, no, some of us here understood the message”

Don’t worry about it. So, we’ve solved that. We’ve sent a message directly to the person listening here. So, there’s no need for them to watch later. They’ve already received the message. We only have it for the record. Did I tell you? Did I tell you this is recorded?

And just let me know when this recovery is over how the season looks to you then. How do they view the preparations? And tell me how the training for a high jumper looks. Is there anything special? Do they just jump or is there something else? They jump the least.

As I’ve seen, they jump the least in high jump. First, let me take off this boot. This styling. That’s number one, to take off the boot. And slowly stand on my own feet. And since I won’t be competing indoors, I think I’ll have plenty of time. And everything in order.

That preparatory period that I’ve already completed before the injury, we’ll just extend it until May. And then we’ll see, I mean, I can’t say for sure right now, but you know, let’s see what awaits us in terms of competitions and all that. But first, let me prepare, make sure I’m healthy,

And that I can jump. As for training, well, jumping is the least of it. A lot of running, exercises, jumping onto boxes, speed, explosiveness, strength, a mix of everything, basically the classics, same thing every day. In Athens, right? I train in Athens since I was five. So, it’s a beautiful life. Alright, alright.

Well, Marija, thank you so much.” I wish you a lot, a lot of success at the Olympic Games of course, my heart don’t be mad, it will be on Angela Nino’s side and I wish I think that’s fair but I really wish you there let both of them be on the podium

If possible well the order doesn’t matter but I wish you success anyway not only at the Olympic Games of course there are several other important competitions this year is it European? European in Rome, yes that’s before yes, so there it can be the same yes, actually I’m not

Yes, that will also be interesting although the competition for us, the Olympic Games are like the European in essence, only the Australians are there and that’s it and well, thank you of course Jovana of course, thank you Merkurik Stipe, thank you Vernjan and a lot, a lot of luck

I’m really glad we met and I really wish you all the best a quick recovery and let the Montenegrin flag wave again, I would be really happy and with all my heart, for Jovana too and for dad and mom and for everyone else, and for you of course

Thank you very much for the invitation, time flew by about Rome and it was a pleasure talking to you yes, same here, really, it’s a great honor for me really, all the best, thank you that was a conversation with Marija Vuković see you next time until the next one, big greetings, bye bye

Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you Thank you