In today’s show Eden Saul joins us to explain why the mat is the most dynamic surf craft, how he planted Dead Kooks seeds globally for free while gleaning knowledge from the best builders, how increasing production decreased his business growth, and why he’s committed to purchasing other shaper’s surfboards. Enjoy!
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First thing I want to ask you about though that we might need to cut out is by the time this airs the electric acid surfboard test will have concluded yep uh do you know who won no oh okay and there’s some I shouldn’t speak too much on it cuz that project was pretty
Interesting to work on as far as like how it’s played out a little um and I’m such a fan of what all the guys it’s stab do um but yeah that one I know they plagued with a few issues there was originally going to be a different Surfer originally I don’t
Think it was specifically going to be about like a winner or a loser it was more about design um and the parameters sort of changed a little bit it’s been cool uh they were very specific about the board they wanted it wasn’t such something I
Actually chose oh I see um so that was interesting if I was kind of had my time over and I knew it was like what we’re doing and it was for SE I would have loved to made something very different yeah so I think it’ll be interesting to
See how he goes on that if he can get his foot in the right place sort of watching him riding the Jonesy it looked sort of like he was too far up the board a little but some of the boards he connected better with it’s just like
They’re very specific sort of you’ve got to adjust your surfing to it you were before we sat down like you were told me you you’ve been riding one of Jones’s boards yeah and it’s you’ve got to like it’s a it’s an adjustment it’s adjustment to your foot placement it’s a lot more lateral
Surfing yeah I when I in fact it’s been a few years since I got that board but I do remember the first few sessions on it I was out of sorts all you had to do is look at torren Martin and then you’re like oh his feet are actually pretty close
Together they’re in the back third basically a third of the way up from the tail and I think that jbay video was out at the time thank you mother and so it’s like watching him stand on that thing at jbay it’s like oh that’s what I need to
Model my surfing after and it was as simple as that take your time if if you need take I um yeah I think the interesting thing with those is like with longer boards people want to surf them a little further up but you got to still get your feet back on the
Fins on them and and once you sort of get that foot placement forward yeah you can Shuffle Up and whatever but the driving and kind of the real engine still coming from the back and sort of you can still get tons of drive and speed just standing on the back oh yeah
Yeah um well as it relates to the electric acid surfboard test as a viewer I didn’t have any of the insights about what the brief was for the Shapers so you saying that there was a very specific brief is news to me yeah like I’m and I hope I’m not misspeaking and
The guys are cool with me saying it um but yeah it was like they wanted like me was channels and they’ve got a Jonesy Channel botom and Ian burn who’s like probably not very well known in the states I’m going to guess but is like legendary and N is incredible made that
Kind of rad MP Style Fang taale thing right so you had that so guess you got Channel bottoms you’ve got quads which you had Mr doing a quad which is probably really random for a lot of people totally that thing looks so Killer By the way yeah uh the Hayden
Shapes quad right which Hayden’s not really a quad guy so that was interesting um and then you had like Ryan love doing a finless the Cory grah and board which was sort of a finless so I guess it was sort of more interesting trying to like get away
From sorry what might be the more conventional yeah well what the whole experience um highlighted for me was um the value that I place in communicating with a shaper because with each of those boards they they barely let the shaper they barely um show the Shapers kind of reason for creating the
Thing certainly we don’t know the brief going into it or why the shaper was assigned that thing but then the shaper in the past they used to have Breakaway episodes that highlighted the shaper and you really got to know like the Limelight was on the shaper and then the
Surfer experiencing the board was almost secondary but where I felt that this was a misstep was not only for me the viewer but for Shawn himself I go wow here’s a surfer who has no context at all to understand Cory Graham’s piece of trash that got upcycled and made into this
Like yeah B and so of course he’s going to go out there and just be like man this thing doesn’t work as good as my regular boards do cuz he has no context also it’s kind of tricky when you’re not making like making something for a specific surf or a specific sort
Of wave in with in mind and then if that gets flipped you know like different like Sean’s such an incredible and talented Surfer right like the way you watch him like some of those big straight as he does and like the way he Haws himself under like ledgy lips it’s
Crazy totally well so none of that was for me to blast stab for a misstep at all it was more that it identified in me like the boards that I appreciate most in my life there’s all this context built into it because I do know the
Backstory of the shaper I know how they arrived at this design I know why I came to them to ask for this and how they communicated back with me and get me you know so then once I take it in the water it’s like all of this there’s a little
Understanding of like what you’re looking for or what it’s going to do for you at that point I’m invested in it and I want to know I want it to speak to me you know what I mean it’s it’s easier it’s very difficult to write the board
Off at that point I’m going to spend 10 sessions trying to develop a it out yeah yeah exactly yeah I love that like experience like I I still order a fair few boards do you from different guys um and I love even like when they don’t work
Great is actually kind of really fun for me too got a couple boards off Greg Weber last year oh wow that were just and I didn’t really give him much of a I was like just make me two boards um and I got that trippy like crazy edges stupid amounts of tail flip
Thin placements insane and there was like first couple SS I was I can’t even ride these things this is and I persevered with it and like they didn’t totally work for me but there was moments that were like oh wow and it’s like even it’s kind of nice
Some it like reaffirms like your own thinking and other times it’s like oh [ __ ] that like there was a moment in there that like I didn’t expect and that was almost right um were they shortboards yeah I got like a 5’9 both had these sort of like big like
Midb kind of stingers in them okay round tals one was a twin one was a quad okay um but yeah the fin placement on the quad was like the rears were up like 6 and 1 half I ended end up measuring him and I’m like what huh stupid amounts of
Tail flip really square round like Square hard edges like almost halfway up the board so when you uh talk to him do you ask him does he explain what all the thoughts are behind that do you have those conversations okay Greg if you ever see like any just his Instagram
Clips like he’s one of the most thoughtful yeah like his boards are just the volumes up to 11 on everything gotcha um I see that even with this electric acid surfboard test like I’ve seen that Ryan love lace finless rabbit’s foot or whatever he calls it and I realized like
That’s probably you’re when you’re on the design Fringe way out there it’s not necessarily with the thought that this is going to uh service not certainly not everybody but maybe not even a specific person but that specific person will be able to tap in to something on the Fringe that will
Apply to the broader kind of generalization you know and that’s what you’re trying to do I feel like lots of times with that stuff yeah that uh it’s like living where I am at Lennox and like Byron’s like you know I work in Byron 20 minutes away and I’ve like
Watched Arie riding those things at home so often crazy and it’s insane it’s almost not even surfing anymore it’s like a totally different thing I can’t relate to what he’s it really is and like even it we have this I don’t know if I kind of feel like bym was like
Where a lot of this like big like guys going like finless on soft tops and it like really good Surfers um it’s when of guy Harry at home he did like 88 surfboards like these killer soft tops like like a little like more refined and dialed with
Out and the surfing watching those guys it’s like they just tapped into something that’s totally different mhm and like I don’t totally get it and it’s not for me but like it’s really sick to watch you ride a map though right I ride a m M yeah regularly pretty regularly
What do you what’s the sensation or what are you looking for with that um I just find them just insanely Dynamic um I’ve had a couple shoulder reconstructions so it’s sort of in between surgeries and stuff like that it’s been a really fun thing but I got on to
One [ __ ] I was like 21 maybe okay there was a guy from like Carolina traveling was like staying on the go Coast for a while had a couple of like randomly had like four or five like fourth gears in the back of his car and was like
Chatting to him one day I’m like what he’s like yeah like end up selling me one and I just traveled with that thing everywhere cuz just found even like if I was going on trips or like wherever I could just like clip a set of swim fins
To my backpack fold that thing up right if I had a weekend away somewhere without having to take surfboards and I loved it I rode that thing at like pretty I got absolutely flexed one day at on it really remember like put it down the back bottom of my vest and like
Swam out with it and blew it up out the back I’d had a few beers and was like I’ll go like surf kind of like outside corner was almost just starting and like got in and kind of high lined and then had to drop down to thinking I was going
To get around this bit of white water and then it just clipped me I was like sideways in the foam just be hugging this thing I’m not going to let it go but then like not penetrating so you’re basically just getting like rolled in the white water
Like a beach ball just not penetrate and get dragged so freaking far um you say Dynamic can you explain what you mean by that I mean cuz what I think is obvious to any viewer is just the speed friction free you know like going super fast but
What about the Dynamics I guess living like at at living at lenux Chris Brock lives at the end of my street Chris and George ride them every day out the front of my house okay every day and then you’ve also got Dan Thompson’s dad mock he’s also on mats it’s we’re probably in
A really interesting Community where I guess most places surf mats aren’t a common thing yeah whereas I I watch guys riding them every day and surfing them quite well so I think you sort of like when you’re exposed to it you’re oh this is pretty interesting watching guys riding them
Well where you can like adjust the rocker adjust your rail Contours adjust the bottom you know like slow down or at the same time like squeeze a chamber and push all the air across onto one Pontoon and just be Absolut bombing on it like it’s pretty interesting and I don’t know
If you actually go faster on them but like just the sensation of like like you know if you’re driving like you’re driving like a myos Manx or a mooch or something you might be doing 40 mph but it feels like you’re doing 100 yeah and
I think I’m not I know Mats do go fast but even just the sensation when your face is 2 in off the water right is pretty insane so the adjustments that you’re talking about you’re making in real time rocker adjustments yeah that is dynamic so you can kind of
Like by like you know adjusting your pressure on your hands or actually squeezing a chamber letting the air out you ride them relatively flat so you’re like sort of buried down in it right um but they’re just a lot of fun and then I
Know I’ve got a I’ve got a few now and like I’ve it’s been really cool like when friends wives are like pregnant and stuff like they can ride it keep keeps them in the water right and yeah coming through surgeries and stuff it’s been a really good thing it’s a great way to
Keep you in the water for sure um did you grow up in Lennox I grew up in Lennox um kind of we have like 10 minutes outside of town just like a pretty country style um what brought your parents there my whole family’s sort of been in that area for a
Long time like my grandparents were there wow um my dad grew up uh like half an hour south there and spot called evans’s Head um my grandfather ran fishing trollers and okay out of there so my dad was was always just on fishing boats and surfing
Um so he grew up there doing that um my mom was from the area as well and then yeah we go back I think it’s like few Generations three generations there which is pretty funny in a town like Byron Bay that’s just so blown out now my grandparents will talk about oh we
Got offered like an acre and a half on the hill at wos for like 50 lb but we didn’t take it cuz why would you want to live over there you know like that was all it was up a dirt track away from everything and I’m like you know that
Same block of land now is worth like $20 million like yeah no joke um what a fortunate situation to be born into I mean a real estate aside just for from a surf standpoint just oh it’s shaped everything it’s insane and like such an incredible surf Community yeah um the
Level of Surfing there on any day but also just the quality of waves we have um like I come out here to LA and everyone’s like oh You’ been serving and I’m not trying to get salty on it but like like we get really good waves at home like proper proper waves
And we’re lucky too is there’s so many waves that you can kind of in like places you can easily get out find some space and uh you know we surf quite often with just a very few handful of us and so um what year were you born 88
Okay 35 now so as you were getting into surfing who were your cohorts rosta no Dave’s a bit older than me okay Dave was living up at Burley I guess at that time um did kind of get I guess I got introduced a little tangent but randomly I started somehow when I
Was like 13 can’t tell is that outside okay that’s all right yeah uh yeah when I was like 13 Dick Van strain started making me boards no way which which was it probably was like one of the best things for my surfing and probably the worst thing for my
Surfing cuz I just was like straight I was like oh my God this is insane and like I think that Dave that movie that Dave and Andy did together just came out Dave was like riding some crazy boards and then like dick started like just throwing me his hand me downs wow
And I was just like straight away I was like you know at that age I was surfing and doing like a few comps or whatever and had like Owen and Wilco and stuff like all my age like Stewie Kennedy was like a year or two younger than me
Surfing but we all surf together and then like a year or two old he had like Adam meling or like James Woods and stuff at home and then also like Steven Walsh and Anthony Walsh pretty crazy group of crew around and I realized very quick I’m like I’m
Nowhere near as good as any of these guys torren was like a year younger than me at school um Ellis Ericson was in Byron like pretty cool group of people in like a small little town absolutely but yeah really quickly was like I’m nowhere near any of this and then was like started
Riding these Boards of dicks and was like holy [ __ ] this is fun so what what was Dick making at that time um little EPS fish um so I was getting like like 5 EPS twin fins or like little thrusters and stuff off him at like 13 which was just like mind blowing
Yeah um I remember tried to order like as I got a little bigger I tried to order a 54 and he was just like I don’t make 54s you have a 53 or a 55 and I was like what he’s like if you can tell me
Why you need a 54 I’ll make it for you that’s amazing and it’s kind of funny I still remember that and now like I get a little I might get a little eggy with people where they try and order weird Dimensions I’m like no no that’s
So funny but do you I’m thinking he probably made 54s all the time it was just he wanted wanted to you EXA yeah but like if you have a reason why you actually want this and you can communicate it to me I’m more than glad
To do yeah he was just like tell me why you want a 54 and I was like I I just he was like sweet I end up getting a 53 it was great that’s so funny so what did those boards do for you that you weren’t experiencing on the pointy thrusters I
Don’t I honestly couldn’t even tell you it was just like the overall sensation and the feeling and everything that was going on I was like loving it I was probably surfing Terri on them but it felt fun and I think it that’s all it ever needed to be and then um Dan
Thompson used to live sort of like a couple hundred meters away from my house um and Dan was bit older and he was coming back from San Diego with like cane Garden fishes and he was already on that thing and his dad was making him crazy boards and then Dan started
Shaping so I remember I picked up like a five Dan shap me like a funny little 55 like rocket fish thing was one of his proba pretty early boards and I Rod that rode that thing to death got a few more out of him and yeah so that was sort of I guess
The trajectory from very early on just ruining me um so you had no delusions about being a pro Surfer absolutely were you pursuing academics yes okay yeah did you go to college I did I never finished okay um I was like 6 months shy I actually went to went to school I did
Business law and economics okay um was that because your parents wanted you to do that no no I I I like math I’m good at math um and I finished school and had pretty good grades and could have kind of done whatever I wanted and had no idea what I wanted to
Do so I just was all right I’ll just go in and uh just do something that seemed applicable to anything yeah yeah um and I’m sure you know as things have gone on it served me well yeah I would think so too in business um did your parents have
Any ambition for what they wanted you to do not really I just I know when I dropped out of school they would definitely like you’re going back to finish it though right were they paying for it no okay no we have a bit of a diff kind of in Australia you don’t know
College and that whole thing sort of it doesn’t seem like it’s so much of an expectation whereas everyone here goes to college yeah um and the government basically has like a you just go to school you they put you on like a loan program okay and then it kind of gets
Deducted out of your wages after you start earning a certain amount of money gotcha so it’s kind of I don’t know it’s a not a I’m not going to say it’s a great system but it works pretty good it’s not like people are out here ringing up these immeasurable depths
That seem like I don’t know how well they’re serving a lot of people but they’re not the model is kind of broken here so but um yeah remember I was doing that uh my girlfriend at the time was like we like were like we’re just going
To move to Barley she was like having had a swim L label something something she was doing I was already shaping some boards and like lifeguarding and doing triathon and like weird [ __ ] and um I remember I came back and all my friends had like had to move into like Brisbane
Or Sydney in the city wearing suits making shitty money and we were like felt like we were like in barley and at home and cruising and like was somehow better off and I was just like screw this this just seems Seems like a shitty move um so you were building you’re were
You earning the majority of your income from building boards lifeguarding oh from lifeguarding okay yeah which was pretty fun was like lifeguarding like just on the beach at like cool and G so you’d like run out surf in the mornings surf Snapper at lunch um what the argument would be for
Putting on the suit and going into the city is that yeah maybe you’re earning more and you have a better lifestyle now but 10 years from now this career has more potential and all that sort of stuff I just watched Friends doing it and like within in 6 months they all
Just looked miserable and sad and were just drinking too much and I was just I don’t want to do that that looks [ __ ] good for you man so um maybe things are different here C so we’re sitting in Los Angeles right now which is kind of the epitome of chasing that
Dream um and I’m glad to hear and I admire that you didn’t fall for that because I guess to be perfectly honest not everybody has a talent or a skill set that they could creatively pursue on their own that would provide them with you know a lifestyle to yes and no I
Don’t know I kind of feel like a lot like it’s there for a lot of people if they choose to do it okay it’s maybe just I don’t know I I read I read that Rick rubben book I actually kind of thought one of his takes on it was kind
Of cool whereas you know it’s like everyone has that in them it’s just tapping into it interesting I’m not convinced everybody does yeah maybe not well well they might have the talent but the other thing that you need with it is like yeah entrepreneurship andity for sure
Cuz yeah you can’t yeah you could have a lot of talent you know without any business sense yeah don’t know what to do with it but that’s one thing that I was going to actually bring up with you is that I don’t know when it started for
Your brand but I feel like you were always a pretty Savvy marketer yeah I probably came in like a little hot and heavy and probably like I don’t know I was just like not even I probably just was like oh maybe even overly confident I didn’t even know what
I was doing half the time and I’m sure the half the boards I was making were terrible but I kind of just was like ah this will be fine I’ll just back myself a little bit and so talk about the experience of how when you first started building boards were they mainly for
Yourself you probably start giving them me and some friends same as everyone probably does it um and was just doing that on the side and then I kind of started kicking around uh Factory on the gulas with Stuart Dary um dar’s been shaping forever um sort of became a really great
Mentor to me and a very good friend um and so started like spending time in there doing shitty jobs watching him shape listening a lot of the Clash and picking his brain and he was like really generous with time and knowledge and information and um you know spent a lot
Of time just kicking around in that factory doing wet rubs um glassing my own boards and just learning you know the insides of just in a factory sure and that man I got to like shape a few my own boards and he’d like kind of like come in and like show
You how to hold a planer a little better or like clean up your outlines better and like little tricks from like Old School production Shapers that really serve you well okay rather than just like you know trying to hack them out in your garage without really knowing you
Know like someone who’s been shaping for 40 years coming and just being like Hey try it this way or do that right um you know and getting that constant sort of like someone check checking in on you every week was really good but just also being in a factory and learning you know
The ins and outs and sort of every process along the way um as it relates to the marketing or The Branding when did you start thinking of it as a brand and Publishing what you were doing to Showcase I don’t I feel like I think like it was before we had
Like Instagram and all that [ __ ] it was like we used to have blogs yeah um you know and I think was kind of funny that was like there like a pretty interesting Community around that too um you know like I remember like Ryan laes had like Point conception or like something
Before he had his own brand under his name did he yeah I don’t remember that um I remember meeting Ryan coming out for like a fish fry thing or something you know like back when that was like a thing it was guy doing them on the go Coast um I know so
I guess I probably had like a little Tumblr account or something okay like putting [ __ ] on and I remember like that was how I first connected with like Thomas bexon he was up in ner and like we’d like met the surf a couple times but like he used to have one that was
Like surfing and gardening or something I don’t if he even run it or if it was just one of his friends and he was a part of it but yeah cuz he was into gardening yeah fascinating um because what Darcy could teach you in the factory like that
Generation I think of a lot of those guys as being terrible business people and not not him specifically necessarily but not um good marketers or undervaluing or putting too much of a value on modesty I think though yeah it’s interesting seeing how that’s played out I’m not sure if it’s the same
Here or everywhere but some of the guys at home that like I think are in like G Ron or like Rod dalberg or you know incredible Shapers and it sort of feels like they’ve sort of gone a little by the wayside because it’s you know it’s like
We I know I was lucky I didn’t get a cell phone to I like 15 something like that we were like just on the cusp of coming through you know without internet and whatever else having like dial up in your parents Lounge room but right for
Those but like we all adj adjusted and adapted to it pretty quickly I think for some of those guys you know it’s like if you want to order a surfboard you like ring the factory phone number totally you know or you got to come to the shop and it’s sort
Of the idea of like the emails and all that [ __ ] and it can be so overwhelming like I I I got to a point I was like I I got to out with this [ __ ] at one point and end up was like hard cuz it was like
The amount of time you spend just trying to like manage that stuff and for some of those older guys I’m sure they just like screw this yeah well um I mean those guys were I guess when I’m saying that they could have grown their business faster had they had more
Of a marketing sense I’m saying that with the assumption that they even wanted to grow their business faster some of them probably don’t and they were probably able to make enough boards along the way to where they didn’t need to grow it and also the economics were
Just so different back then they could afford probably to buy a plot of land near the beach on the numbers that they were doing and so there was no whereas now it’s like like good luck in like in my hometown where I’m pray most Beach communities the way that the Western
World’s basically done is like you know everywhere that was beautiful and by the beach and it’s probably like the best and the worst thing surfing’s ever done but like everywhere that like there was good waves like look how blown out barley is now or like you know beerz or you know
Yeah Monto all these like random little plots of the world that you’re like why would people want to live there yeah you know Baron Bay started as like a surf you know a surf Town whaling town like Agricultural and now it’s that’s what it is noose is the same like Lennox like
Yeah um the other thing that I recognized about your career early on was you seem to be traveling a lot and building boards a lot uh what was the first shaping residency that you got invited to do and how do you Foster and develop those first one I did I came out
Actually came out to the states here I was racing Triathlon at the time and was like staying with a pro Tri guy in Cardiff training and I was coming out and I think I randomly like cold cold like just messaged Chris Christians on on like Facebook or something I was like
Hey I’m going to be in town like I’d love to come make some boards he was like yep sweet hit up hit up John at the factory um and yeah got in straight into Moonlight was sort of like my first was pretty insane did why would he say yes
Did he know who you were I got no idea Chris has become like a great friend and a mentor and like I’ve spent a lot of time with him over the years now and um appreciate everything that he’s ever done and I think also he’s just he’s
Just such a badass dude mhm um but yeah so ended up I got spent some time in there um and that shop and the history of it is just insane yeah um and then I ended up I don’t know I guess the trajectory out here was I went from
There down to Diamond had a room at Diamond for a while I was sharing with keys um and that was killer cuz you had Stu Canen and everyone in there and like the history of that shop was pretty cool Hank Warner was kicking around all the
Time so you like got to hang with Hank and that was pretty sick and then went from there to where I end I think we then I don’t know ended up like I think now when I come out of shape down at Josh Hall’s spot which is epic cuz all
Those guys in that little Zone’s pretty killer yeah um but yeah like went from there I’ve always go to France every year basically and work um spent a lot of time in barley and shaped in barley had a shop out there for a few years and
We end up just closing that just before Co just because it all got a bit crazy okay Japan it in from my perspective it’s such a Savvy way to operate your business um because you’re not increasing production to gain exposure you’re just going and planting seeds
Everywhere and kind of doing it yeah for a lot of years I don’t know if I was even making that much money out of it it was more like okay if I can go and spend you know like spend six weeks in barley and make some boards and like
Come out of it with a little cash in my pocket but like or like you know go to France and do some work and spend a month there and not it doesn’t cost me a cent like how kill is that so killer and it’s sort of evolved now where it’s like
Yeah maybe I’ll make some money out of it but like for me it was like at the when I was younger and at the time I was like if I can travel and like do this like this is sick it is sick done that you know I was like went and spent some
Time in New York like did that shaped out at like Joey Falcone’s garage his mom’s garage or something and like do sh been like spend a couple weeks in New York like have a lot of fun walk out of there and I’m like oh I end up with like
A little cash in my pocket for this I mean otherwise it’d be a $10,000 month yeah you exactly so like if you can for me that was I guess you know I was young and you know there’s no family or something so I could like I had this bit
Of freedom and flexibility I was like why not to travel and enjoy the heck out of this yeah good for you um also the experiences that you’re gleaning from everywhere that you’ve mentioned it’s the most talented skilled experienced people that you’re linking up with yeah it’s been absolutely invaluable like to
Be able to have that and I think the way it the way it’s pra influenced I guess the way I’ve done business but also like my just the way I build boards the way I like put shapes together you know it’s been really interesting there’s probably you know I
Don’t know how many guys apart from maybe Dan Thompson that have like probably spend as much time coming out to San Diego working with and around all those those guys feeling all those boards seeing how they’re putting them together but also too just I think the best thing
To like for me making boards for people is if I’ve spent time in and around those areas understanding like some guy Rings me up and he’s like ah hey like you know want this this this and I’m like oh cool like I know that area I know the boards that people are riding
There or like I’ve surf those waves it’s like you can really offer people like a better experience for sure rather than sort of me just on the other side of the world going well this is what I make for where I surf yeah hope it works for you
Totally um were you sacrificing anything by doing that I mean it’s m it’s hard to maintain relationships yeah it’s definitely bit me in the ass numerous times but that’s fine like it is what it is I mean it’s okay for when you’re in your 20s I suppose but at a certain
Point well I’ve it’s what’s the where I’ve ended up getting stitched up and there’s like a bunch of my friends like all a heap of Australian boys are all living out here somehow all ended up dating girls in LA and then thinking that we can like no but like the idea of
Like having kids and stuff you’re like oh we’ll do that back at home and they like no oh [ __ ] yeah that’s a something you want to in the butt a few times something you want to discuss early on I think um were you establishing relationships with retailers or do you do you work
Through retail do you mainly Work Direct how does that work a little bit we like and we definitely used to do a lot more like uh wholesale stuff um I’ve sort of pulled back from that not not like in a conscious decision so much more just like I’m shaping everything I only have
The capacity to do so much and as that sort of you know demand for just custom boards is sort of increased it’s like the amount I can actually put out to stores is sort of gets cut down pretty quick so um what is your Your Capacity
How many boards can you build a year we’re doing I try to do like around like a thousand a year seems it sounds like a lot but that’s manageable that seems like I can still have a pretty good lifestyle not go too crazy had a maybe like five years ago
Five we had like I did blow it out a lot more than that and was like in a lot more shops and doing all this and I was working my absolute nut out had like had more staff everything else and got to the end of the year and like sat down with my
Account and we looked at it and I was just like actually don’t think I made any more money and I was like having a [ __ ] time I wasn’t surfing cuz I was just in the factory to like I was like at the time I was living like an hour from
Where the factory was I was like sleeping in the factory at night just like trying to make it work and I was like this is [ __ ] just pulled everything think way back um hired a guy to basically sort of be my boss run the run
The shop run the emails he tells me what to do for the week and all I have to do is just talk to talk to people about what they want in boards and shape their boards how difficult was that to really Co control and also to find the right
Person finding the right person was hard and then once I found the right person actually letting him do it was a lot easier okay but getting that person was definitely tricky did you get the wrong person a couple of times yeah okay yeah I tried like with a really good friend
And that did not work out um and then yeah we end up the guy I’ve got now is Guy Andrew and he’s amazing and I don’t know if I could do what I do now without having him around it like definitely makes my life infinitely
Easier is there a way to push past that challenging time that you were talking about to get to a new level of production and Rue probably is for me I’m like I don’t I don’t want to do more like I’m quite comfortable okay in our little space
Like we’ve got a little setup in Barron Bay we’ve got like a showroom I’ve got a shaping bed in that space and then like we’d pack and ship everything out of there and then we’ve got a glass shop like about an hour north in caran um
With a really good crew in there um and I like that it’s tight I like that it’s easy it’s pretty it’s still quite humble um you know we got a great little setup there in Barum we’re like around the corner you got this crew wild things
Which you G heroi and they’ve got a bunch of other stuff in there McTavish is next door to them yeah um there’s like that little Hub is is insane but yeah it’s like we got a kind of humble little store there little easy tight space low overheads which
Means sort of pretty low stress and good I kind of like that idea I feel like especially through Co there was the opportunity to like really go big and I’ve watched Friends that did and really overinvestment of the market globally and it’s scary yeah and that’s a tricky
Thing too CU it was like if it was just me doing shitty and you’re watching everyone else is like doing great you’re like okay cool we need to Pivot and adjust but when everyone’s kind of eating [ __ ] you’re like okay the scary thing is that it’s beyond our control like it’s external
Global economic factors that are just affecting the business and there’s nothing you can do about it like we’re fine at home like we still we we got good little numbers I think one of the lucky things we have is just good waves at home yeah and at the end of the day
Like even when money’s tight like legit Surfers are going to buy surfboards it’s just like it’s the it’s the new coming to surfing people um I guess the only problem that I guess we have is like making what I would say like proper high quality surf boards it’s like if someone bought a
Longboard off Me 2 years ago and money is getting tight they’re like that board’s fine yeah like they’re good you know I think that is affecting the business partially it is covid kind of post you know depression it’s the global economic factors but it’s also the style
Of boards that have become popular in the last 5 to 10 years are more durable yeah which I don’t know like I hope that’s where we’re going like from an environmental perspective I know there is some interesting stuff happening but the my sort of take on it is just like
Build the best boards you can to the highest quality and make them last if you can keep them out of landfill amazing like that’s sustainable that’s sustainable I see some of these like EPS boards that say like Eco project on them that like are a year old they’re brown
Water logged absolute trash like you you couldn’t give it away and I’m like oh that’s eco and it came here on a ship and it’s still made with all the nasty chemicals that we’re using well they’ll say the EPS inside is recyclable yeah and you’re like yeah nobody tears it
Apart if you strip the glass off and then do that and so it’s and then take the EPS to a recycling center which nobody does no whereas like you know I’ve got I still got boards that I’m riding that 50 years old yeah yeah like
That to me is like you know using I know there is going to be better things and there’s some really we’ve been doing some stuff with flax which is really insane feels incredible and like really durable um but at the end of the day like you use quality blanks quality F
Quality Glass resin yeah make them last well um that was going to be another line of my questioning was you still shape everything yourself but you use a lot of differents depending on you are in the world so how do you define quity and how do you
Manage quity when you’re at a thousand boards a year um we’ve got I’m working with a guy at home Mark’s my laminator um and he’s he’s insane he’s like a second generation board Builder really talented Glasser like the we do I guess we’re probably known for like a lot of
Our like abstract resin work stuff but how light and he gets everything and everything is so tight like he came up doing production work at like DHD so he’s got that down but like his stuff is insane we’ve been working together for 10 years or so now so we don’t like it’s
Easy I don’t even have to just he does it and I guess on the managing quality is like I’ve been lucky or I’ve just positioned it so when I’m am going around the world like if I’m going to go and build boards here and I’m like like
If I go to Moonlight I don’t have to go and worry about the quality it’s like you know that’s going to be top shelf work yeah or you know I’ve had you know like Alex v the Lobos has glassed most of my Boards out here for the last like
Eight years okay you know like whether it was at like diamond or did some stuff at Gordon Smith or now it’s like at LSD Joel’s spot there same thing and I’ve had like the same glasses sand as guys doing fins so it’s like if you’re position for me it was like positioning
Yourself in great glass shops you not have to worry about the quality cuz I know those guys are going to do a great job you’ve fostered those relationships yeah over those years the problem is in our industry I’d say is like there’s only a handful of great like quality
Great glasses glass like good glasses good L good even like good polishes it’s like that’s a everyone wants to shape and I get it but there’s not that many guys like coming up that are like wanting to be like I want to be a good Glasser or like that’s the that’s
The job I want that’s going to be a problem I think going forward a good hot coat guy or like a good cuz it’s like and for me it’s like your shapes without a good glass job quality lamination quality sanding work like everything I do doesn’t matter well even so beyond
The laminator the laminator now has gotten a little bit of a claim and you just mentioning them by name I think is a good step forward towards that but the sander doesn’t you know what I mean um the fin Setter doesn’t like those people’s names aren’t on the boards and
They’re not people don’t know no but they deserve every little bit of credit cuz like if the guy putting the fins in doesn’t angle them right doesn’t matter how good that shape is that board’s going to be absolute trash there that’s absolutely important and there’s should be there’s an
Argument to be made that their names should be on the boards alongs side you know yeah it is I don’t know those guys like we’ve got a good little crew at home and I’m I’m so proud of like like watching what our guys are doing and
It’s cool to be able to sort of like you know that other people around the world are even like cotton on to well I think they have because they’re now earning the prices have come up those glass shops are charging a premium for their work and paying those
People appropriately and so I think there’s incentive for people to do a good job now yeah but like I still think surfboards I’ll still argue surfboards are cheap I agree like if you go and get you know like go and grab a I got a board off Bob
McTavish last year went in the bay spent the day with Bob drank some coffee shaped a board like made some adjustments on the fly like that experience for a guy that’s been building boards for as long as he has just to be able to like go and
Talk story with those guys like any other industry any other profession like Artistry whatever can find someone who’s been doing it for that long at the top of their game and see what you’re going to pay for it like so your what are your like what is a uh
Fish priced at for you retail and what is a longboard priced at and do you feel like that there’s room to grow from there and to charge more um for us yeah like so like the I guess like our most popular thing at the moment is just like
A little like a 64 twin finan sort of in between fish thing they’re like at home they’re 1,550 and then like a polished long board’s 2200 2250 um which I think like that’s reasonable enough that’s fine yeah um it’s a tricky one trying to I don’t know
Boards are it’s the values and prices change depending on where you are too and then throw in exchange rates and what that looks like and I don’t know like it’s I love seeing like the prices christensen’s getting or Tyler zin’s getting or Burch is getting because it
It lifts everyone I agree yeah I’m thrilled I agree with you surfboards are underpriced and I’m thrilled to see those prices as well because you can’t the laminators the Sanders that we were talking about can’t afford to buy property in Southern California or certainly not byrin at this point um
Doing that work and as Surfers I want to make investments in them so that we can continue having access to their work oh look I’m sure there’s a bunch of people listening to this going like this guy can piss off like saying board should be more expensive but to that exact point like
If you want to keep these people in jobs and keep them building boards they need to make a good enough living to keep doing it or they they just won’t they’ll go do something else and then you’re in a position where like you know like one of our blank big blank manufacturers in
Australia just like closed down move their whole operation to Barley because they couldn’t get enough stuff so now they’re all getting made in barley which I guess is fine but like I used to like being able to go in there and like quickly adjust a rocker or something like that
Yeah I hear what you’re saying when you’re saying I guess that’s fine but it’s not fine actually because uh certainly here domestically in the US we are held as manufacturers to a higher standard of EPA regulation employee treatment standards all that sort of stuff so by virtue of building
Those things domestically not only is it supporting the local economy and all that sort of stuff it’s a safer working environment and then it’s also yielding a better product yeah because holding things to that regulatory standards yields consistently in the product consistency sort of further on that too
Like something I’ve done and tried to be very cognizant of is like as I’ve been like rather than just me making boards at home and just send them out everywhere and like we still do that like I’m just sent a batch over here of Customs we built it home for some like
Clients but um I’ve always sort of liked the idea of like if I rather than doing building a batch at home and just flicking them out because I I can do it cheaper at home I like no come over to California like I pay my money I’ve got
A Visa I’ve like done all my [ __ ] proper come come over to California build boards here kick some money back into the glass shops right into the community I’ve done the same like I’ll go to Hawaii it’s like so the guys there rather than taking food off their plate
You’re like kicking back into the glass shops and that so everyone in that surf Community still actually gets a little out of it sort of seems like a good way of like contributing and kicking back rather than just like eroding eroding another little you know Community like
You know I’m not making big numbers it’s not like it’s probably making a difference but it always just feels better to me to like you know if I go to Hawaii and make boards like you’re paying the sand of there you’re paying the glass of there you’re buying your
Blanks Off Ted like you’re doing the whole thing that’s wonderful to hear because that does go a long way for the local shaping Community you’re right you’re not doing huge numbers to make a dent on the grand scheme but there’s individual Shapers who are competing with you essentially for the same Market
Yeah who would be mythed if you just yeah did it the other way so that’s great to hear um in terms of pricing those people uh who are buying your boards or buying other boards even they go golfing all the time and they have super expensive golf clubs and
I played nine this morning before we got here exactly and I know you’re triathlete as well they’re they’re riding $10,000 bicycles you know what I mean so the market will bear or whatever the they’ll pay whatever you know uh the market will bear you could charge whatever the market will bear they are
Willing to pay it if they just have the perception and the understanding that it’s worth it and it’s your job and through your marketing to educate them through the ways that we’re kind of doing now that this is worth it yeah it’s also like if you’re building quality boards and they
Last like one of the guys that we surf surf a bunch with at home this guy Nathan Oldfield makes beautiful films like love and he’s just the most sweet in general gentle human being and rides these like 11t 1111 gliders I make and serves them incredibly well and he he’ll
Ride that board 300 days a year and had bought one back after 5 years and the thing was in great shape I think like I didn’t really I don’t know what I even charged him for it like say I sell that board at home for three grand he bought
It back we sold it for him for 1,800 bucks after 5 years like incredible that’s cheapap incredible like after five years you like like that’s yeah it’s if you break it down like that I don’t know I’d almost say I don’t know like if you go
And buy like a cheap cheap popped out shortboard and that thing turns to trash that gets yeah that gets expensive if you’re buying quality built boards that actually will last then yeah you maybe you paid a premium but your actual Lifetime on it or your return if you then want to flip
It yeah it actually does probably make you know his per session cost was 3 cents yeah like um and you and I were also talking before we started recording just about the mentality of kind of Shifting to a oneboard quiver mindset yeah of like I don’t need 20 boards in
The quiver anymore I gu I still have them yeah I know I do too but my new mentality is yeah I’m going to ride three of them throughout the course of the Year basically no like I still ride a bunch of different boards but like
Yeah I was telling you about that trip I went to Fiji and just took I took two boards but the exact same dimensions in the same thing and it was such a refreshing experience yeah so let’s I wanted to kind of highlight a specific board design of yours I was thinking the
Yin-yang twin was that what you brought to fi okay cool then let’s talk about that let’s highlight that for listeners what is it and um so that actually we start talked a little about the stab acid test thing oh yeah earlier so I was making like a round Di tail um Channel
Bottom originally they weren’t Channel bottoms they were like a pretty interesting spiral V concave setup and I was trying not to do them as channels specifically just because Jonesy is such a legend I didn’t want to sort of like get on that and then I had so many
Friends like bro can you just put some channels in one for me and I was like all right whatever we did a couple and that sort of was going good and then the acid test thing came up and I was like like let’s tweak this thing so we kind of like
Pulled the nose tucked the tail a little straighten the tail curve put a swallow on it adjusted The Rocker a little and sent them out for that and it was funny cuz when they did the test Mason and Koko were like kind of poooo it it was
Pretty sick coko had a great line was just like oh no Cokes and she was like what’s you think I’m pregnant or something like what is like oh [ __ ] cuz it was more volume yes chunky for him um but it was funny cuz it was like then
All the half the guys that stabbing I’m like like Aston gogin like rode that Bo took that board and like said didn’t leave his board bag for like 2 years it was just like this thing’s insane it was like all my friends were like that was all that everyone was
Ordering um and it sort of became like I was like oh I’m like really started refining them refining them then Dave ended up getting on a couple um we had some really bad floods at home a couple years ago I don’t know if youve probably seen a bit of that really
Gnarly was left to a lot of us to sort of like do a lot of like rescue work and Recovery work and anyway me and Dave like going up a river one day in his boat and we’re coming back after doing like I think we did like a medicine drop
Or something somewhere and we’re coming back in his boat we’re chatting about boards and different things and he was like what have you been riding we’re chatting and he’s like oh I was like come grab one he just grabbed like a 68 off the rack and he’s like rang me couple days
Later he like this thing’s insane he was all jazzed on it oh cool so he wrote a couple and then he was like have you ever made one want any without channels and I’d made one and I hated the look of it and it was actually meant to go to a
Guy in Japan was saying I never even sent it I put it in a box and just stashed it upstairs and been sitting there for like a year and a half and I was like H yeah maybe like I just so went grabbed this thing gave it to him
Like try it he rang me like the next day and this is after I proba done like a thousand of them all with channels he rang me and he’s like don’t put channels in they’re way better without it and I was just like you [ __ ] kidding me
So what do you think that was what was the difference what was he feeling um I think the the way the channels are working in them in like softer waves or for like less experienced or like lesser surf intermediates to low they give this incredible lift and drive and squirt
Like and in smaller softer conditions just the original get up and go or like if you’re not at a super skilled level it they feel just so Electric trick roll over really easy just yeah turbo boosters basically gotta but then at higher speeds there’s like a little cavitation a little drift between the
Fins you’ll feel some air bubble a little extra and they’ll get a little more grippy out of the lip so once we took that that out added a slight more V you’ve just like at high speed you’ve just got total control push them as hard
As you want and then also out of the lip they’re just way more clicky sharp um but yeah we’ve sort of found the length on them I’m riding them like 64 to like 68 sort of as long as I want them you do still want to be over the fins on them
What we’re talking about with that other boards but you can Shuffle forward and sort of move around which is really nice but I don’t want them too long otherwise it sort of feels like you got too much of like swing weight and pendulum in front of you okay um yeah I’ve been
Really they’re just a lot of fun it’s like it’s sort of ticks a lot of boxes you’re not too long that it’s getting in the way but you’re also getting that like longer board Glide and feel and with that swallow you sort of get that little straighter longer rail line in
The back um so what is the rail look like and what does The Rocker profile look like pretty it’s like a medium rocker it’s sort of like four four in the nose 2 38 tail pretty continual curb like a kind of like a like a pretty nice
Like flat easy spot in the center that just gives like a really good spot spot um little soft roll nose to like a good single concave to just pretty accentuated panel V out the back um and I like a pretty like low boxy rail but
With like a little cup kind of like a little ping pongy cup sort of underneath um and yeah like a nice little beak I kind of put beaks on just about everything oh okay yeah I saw that on that one yeah um there’s footage of roster writing it on your website as
Well for anybody wants to see that I’ll link to it or post it yeah killer um I’m curious about how how you I mean obviously roster grew up in the area but I’ve seen Steph Gilmore riding the boards um how do you connect with those people and what do that due for your
I’ve know Steph grew up like three do up from my cousin so I’ve known her since I think we used to like play soccer together in like our friend’s backyard when we’re like five okay um so I’ve known Steph forever um she’s probably my I don’t know she’s not my favorite
Surfer she’s top three watch her the way she rides a board is insane um but yeah so Steph’s I love watching Steph’s Earth um I think yeah some of that footage too was like that was just like on a borrowed board at Malibu just
Like oh let me run out and grab a couple totally that’s what we love about her surfing though is it’s not it’s just the everyday sessions and how elegant dignified how yeah it’s just beautiful to watch beautiful surfy it’s insane it’s nothing special except that it’s incredibly special you know yeah
Now her surfing something else um so who’s the most who gives you the most informed feedback um probably Dave’s pretty good with that stuff but also the the tricky thing with Dave’s feedback is he kind of like he rode like a 68 stockboard and he’s like oh like
Certain people probably can’t adapt he just half the boards he’s had have just been off the rack and then he just comes in grabs it like just stock and like oh that that’s great grabs another one oh that one’s great to I made him one board and he was just
Like no that thing sucked but that was fine well I’m wondering too if that feedback that he gave you you even said it was uh for the advanced Surfer essentially so can you necessarily translate that feedback to yeah for sure broad Market definitely um no Dave’s
Really detailed he’s so dialed um but we also I I’ve got a couple of guys in Japan I sponsor and that’s been really interesting cuz they’re surfing very subpar conditions most of the time which might seem interesting to like that that you’d want that sort of
As like but it allows you to sort of like it helps when I got some guy on like the Florida coast and I’m like look I know like you you’re learning how to adapt things to like work in like really soft mushy wind swirl and stuff like that rather than
Just you know the waves we’re surfing at home which are much more substantial and juicy yeah um yeah I mean I’ve heard people say like if you could learn how to surf like for me locally it’s like man the guys who learn how to surf at tea Street can
Then rip anywhere like learning how to yeah yeah I sort of don’t have that in me cuz I’m like surfing like beautiful lenux point right I go surf some mushy little beach break and I’m watching guys like getting all hyped I’m like I just it doesn’t doesn’t tickle me as well that’s
Happened to the pro Surfers coming out of Hawaii since way back in the day it’s just like no interest interest in doing anything else yeah um whose surfing do you admire nowadays um I love Dave surfing I love Steph surfing um Mikey Feb um there’s a young a strange kid ly
Who’s insane yeah I’ve seen J glender lives right where I’m at J surfing’s incredible to watch um they’re sort of the ones I guess I’m like my touchstones at really loving watch at the moment and so just yeah like my friend Nathan like the way he rides those big boards like
That’s that really is joyful yeah um have you seen any of the footage from the last week of Mikey February in Hawaii yeah I been watching all that Cal it’s insane it was so cool to see seeing like someone who like I’m sure a lot of like those hardcore guys
Like poo poo on being like oh he’s just like a styly like whatever um I remember being in Hawaii [ __ ] maybe like 8 10 years ago we’re at the bong house hanging and Ty war and basically like just went and packed a couple of like crazy ones out the front and like some
Of the Hawaiian kids were like oh [ __ ] yeah like he got a really sick one at back door and it was like kind of they like oh what and it’s like yeah of course these guys can freaking so that was cool that one Harry Bryant got yesterday was just unbelievable it was
So much made on that thing so cool the boards that he’s been riding specifically like I know he’s riding some of the gter Ron’s boards in the past but seeing him on like a 7 foot 72 or whatever that is looks rad yeah and it allows him it allowed him to get that
Wave actually you know yeah I don’t know if it’s coton on out here so much but at home there’s definitely been like a pretty interesting thing with like a lot of the like Creed and then like J Glendo and them all riding like going back to riding some bigger Longer rail lines and
The way that some of those plan shapes especially from like Rod dalberg or gun like big boards but they’re still really free and loose but also sort of in juicier waves like iuca and lenx and stuff it looks good it really looks good Creed specifically in the latest like kind
Yeah it’s it’s radical that film was so damn cool we were at the premier with like an oie and Jack McCoy and like that that vintage oie footage at new watu is so sick so sick it’s his surfing and like it’s so it’s you’re watching it
Against all those guys and I know it’s like vintage footage and it still like holds up to me it’s more relevant than ever yeah it holds up it’s so it’s insane yeah his approach is just more relevant than ever um back to febs Michael February certainly those couple
Of waves that he got a back door for the comper sick but he also posted some footage on what looked like a Ryan Birch uh Asim interesting did you see any of this footage I don’t know if it was on his account or somebody else’s but it was
Just so he was surfing unbelievably fast and it had like just this Sizzle to it where he was just like whipping these turns yeah like bir’s stuff so crazy like I’m watching what he’s done with those um like that footage of Bryce and like like Bryce is surfing BR it’s kind of
Cool that he’s actually put something out cuz I’ve got to watch surf a fair bit and oh my God it’s like he’s probably relatively unknown I would think to a lot of people well I hope not but like he’s one of the best Surfers on the planet like some of those turns that
He’s doing it’s like he’s putting surfboards in places I don’t think I’ve ever really seen them because boards couldn’t get there previously and bur could get the board there but you’re like oh that’s just bur doing the Birch thing when did you see Bryce do it BR is
Just this bigger like heavier built dude like Birch is incredible but there seems like a little more finesse whereas rice is just going like a million miles an hour just old hammer and he does the hammer and you’re like that’s sick but then he’ll come out of it and blow the
Fins out do a big reverse and you’re like what or riding that aiia and then popping like an alleyoop on the aliia you’re just going never would have even thought of it it’s outside the realm of what we thought was possible his surfing is insane and him connecting with Birch
I feel like is taking things to a different level but so Mikey febs was riding a board that looked again I don’t know whose it was but that’s exactly what it looked like it would looked like it was 17 in wide and the speed and uh
Like kind of on a dime turning radius that the board was going through and his ability to control it with all of his style and all that was like he’s on a different level this season and then to see those waves he got it back door I
Was like dude he’s on a full different I think one of the coolest things for me in surfing at the moment is you know and hats off to Joel and Devon and bir and all these guys guys that have sort of like shifted the needle a little bit
Torren and what him and Jonesy have done specifically as well like they deserve so much props because like it’s changed like the boards that like I want to make and like the boards those guys are all making it’s just opened this playing fi up that like it’s so widely accepted now
And it’s not just considered like some like alternate cook board it’s like it’s high performance these guys are ripping you know yes you can like yeah if you want to cruise it that’s fine too but like you know I want to build boards that people are going to surf the heck
Out of it’s a lot more relatable surfing for 99% of surfers on the planet like I can’t relate to Felipe too or he’s not even the best example I can’t relate to eo’s surfing pool doing like a Superman and then like an Ali oop on the same wave
And you know pumping out crazy gym sets I’m like that’s killer but it’s not that’s not the surfing I’m I’m leaning towards no um but but so I’ll never surf like torren but I look at his surfing and I can aspire to it at least and um I
Think that’s been one of the real things that like people have loved in like all the stuff that he’s put out and the boards that him and Jonesy have been working on is like if you’re watching yeah like watching Ito you’re like cool that’s not me but I’d say the average
Guy watching Taren just gracely streaking down the line and then getting piped out of his absolute mind they’re like I’m never going to actually do that but in my brain I like to think I could or that’s the sort of thing I’d like to emulate I can do a 1% version of that
You know and that still feels amazing his surfing so technical he just sort of makes it look easy which is really deceptive I think like that’s but to me that’s when good surf that’s what good surfing is agreed it’s effortless while being incredibly Technical and we can also
Start using the term high performance too when you’re talking about Birch’s boards or um certain Surfers on them because things got so focused on the pointy Thruster for two decades I think that it was actually a disservice to all of Surfing well a lot of guys like I you
Know I was just up in Fiji and watching guys trying to paddle into 6 foot Cloud break on like little like EPS popouts that were 27 lers and they’re like 190 lb and I’m like what are you doing yeah and they’re like oh you know this is
What I was no my bro yeah get some you know get some foam under your feet but you know there’s still that that mentality is still there but it definitely seems to be shifting I just wonder where surfing could have gone in that 20 years if there was the Embrace
Of Kelly was just too freaking good I know and masado made thrusters look insane so it was like true if you look like you know oie and then masado and Kelly and like you know even if you want to be styly like you’re watching Rob riding like a 61 Merck it still looked
[ __ ] good totally same as like it looked insane yeah that’s true um we’ve kind of already T touched on it but uh what other Shapers do you admire and whose other boards are you writing um I love what Jonesy does Chris Christensen big fan Stu kensen I love
Stu stuff Stu actually during Co helped me out with a bit of stuff which was kind of cool said like I shape all my boards during Co we like had a a taken orders out here taken deposits and I couldn’t do them cuz I couldn’t come back so Stu was like
I’ll I’ll do them for you so he we had them cut stew did them and then actually got him to sign his name on them rather than like try and fudge it okay cuz for me it was like if I’ve got someone as good as him doing them then how freaking
Cool yeah and I was like so he he signed him and it was pretty funny I was like remember like where do I want the edge on where do you want the edge on this I was like dude half the reason I’m probably making these boards is because
Of what you and Joel did back then so like I I like it here but what do you think like so it was actually kind of a cool conversation that’s so funny um so that was kind of cool I like what Stu does um yeah Ben and Bob McTavish they’re
Epic um you know Thomas and what Thomas is doing in the longboards I think there’s kind of no one really touching him with that at the moment I say Chris yeah yeah Christensen yeah um I’m glad to hear that you’re buying boards from those guys too
Like I would be I got a couple of Skips that I’ve been loving I ride the [ __ ] out of how’d you get those um just being down in San Diego I guess okay yeah a really nice new mitzen fish um yeah I just asked him and then
Actually during Co I same I I had a blank I was going to shape myself a glider like an 113 or something people are going to be so mad at this I’m sure I had the blank there and weighed like who was sing for me at
The time was like what are you going to do with that blank I was like I don’t know go out skip to make me something out of it just totally off the cuff not serious and he got like a text from you like a week later I’ll skip shape you
Like a glider out of it what do you want to what color do you want I’m like what so that was that was pretty killer amazing I got a couple of he’s I got a really really find like five six fish off him that goes incredible does it and it’s cool cuz it’s
So back to what I was saying about like it’s so different to anything I would make you know and I got Chris made me a really cool like nice Single Fin gun um I just got a 96 gun off Danny Hess last year wow that’s go that’s really good
I’ve had some crazy sessions on that thing that feels beautiful um yeah I’ve got some araas lucky to spend some time building boards at Eric’s shop and spent time there so picked some boards up off Eric over the years um I would think you run out of time trying to ride all these
Different boards and R&D your own well it’s for me it’s like they’re very specific boards for specific things like I’ve got a couple boards off Eric that like if I’m in Hawaii or if I’m in Fiji that they will like I’ll I’ll grab those boards or like you know I I make some
Guns and I make some good size P boards for good waves but then if I’m surfing like we’ll get some big days at linnux and it’s fun every now and then to like grab my Hess or like grab my Christians and and run down and like you know yeah
I make a lot of big boards and glider sort of stuff um and that I love writing mine but then it’s also nice to sort of like pull out a Skip and yeah there’s not a lot of people who have the opportunity just pull out a SK
Well also too I I’m probably in a position where like you know to be able to get a board off skip or like get Bob McTavish to handshape me something or get Chris to make me a board you know like they’re all people that have sort of been able to call colleagues and
Mostly a lot of them now friends and so it’s it’s a really beautiful thing to be able to like do that absolutely yeah you can’t not do it you feel obligated to almost um what surf media do you follow um I follow stab stuff because I think
They do a pretty good job um that subscribe to the journal and then I don’t listen to too much the podcast stuff I listen to your stuff just cuz I find the conversations really just enjoyable and it’s obviously it’s you’re a lot of the conversations you’re having
With people that I want to have conversations with or I do have conversations with so it’s that’s good I listen a little bit of bass stuff when I get a get a chance sometimes um Jamie brk’s podcast that he’s been doing is so sick I think Jamie’s just so articulate
And thoughtful um I always enjoy those conversations yeah I love Jam um I think I’ve listen I’ve listened a lot more stuff than I probably read now just because I’ve got hours a day in a shaping Bay by myself so yeah um sort of easy to pick that stuff up yeah
Um final question for everybody interviewed is just what was the last surfboard that you rode and where was it the last surfboard that I Rode I’m trying to actually think um what was oh it was like a 10 six fish or something I think I made that I just surfed out the front of my house okay I live sort of right at the bottom of the point Atlantics and there’s like a little like Rocky Reef
There um so yeah I think I just ran down I’ve been doing a bunch of landscaping and just ran down got like an hour and out the front good um um are you still cycling running doing the triathlon stuff I’m not doing any of the triathlon stuff anymore but um I think
I’ve kind of burnt out on doing tries like I got I went and raced like Conor Iron Man like World Champs and did got to did all that [ __ ] holy C and I remember after finishing one of those I was just like this isn’t that fun anymore like
Training 25 30 hours a week and just I didn’t have the capacity for it after sort of like doing those long races which you know if anyone doesn’t know what an immen is it’s like 3.8k swim 180k ride run 42 um so and now I sort of like I think
After doing it a pretty decent level the idea of going and just doing it it’s like there’s no fun in that for me because it’s you know if you’re going to go do it that distance it’s like I want to do it well yeah but I’m still running
Marathons sort of pretty regularly and um do still do a lot of cycling but yeah how many miles are you running a week um at the moment it’s probably like 25 to 30 but when I sort of build up to it sort of we’ll be doing like 50 to 60 I
Can’t believe you have the time it’s kind of I don’t know I love it it’s just you find time yeah that’s interesting a couple hours you know an hour and a half in the morning or something it’s like it’s do that I feel better for it when I get to work yeah
Yeah I mean that’s what I have found but when I get to like when the surf season kicks in it’s like good luck but that’s what I found too is like that it sounds 90 minutes a day sounds like a big carve like you’re carving a punch out of your
Schedule however it allows you to be more efficient for the rest of your schedule whereas if I don’t do it I seem to get less done yeah it’s like when you know it’s like if you when you like if you’re meditate and like learning the meditation thing and it’s like 20
Minutes in the morning or something and you’re like oh I don’t have time cuz you think your day is going to be busy missing that little bit of time is like the like the lack of productivity that you is like that 20 minutes was the easiest 20 minutes you
Have all day long exactly yeah um do you just in terms of diet and exercise is there anything that you don’t partake in um or Diet I should say no I eat everything okay I eat everything I was vegetarian for 11 years and I’ve kind of
Kicked that and now I’m just eating a shitload of it’s just meat and vegetables basically okay not big on bread not big on sugar just just stuff that you know fuels your body ESS try to got I drink enough beer that probably cancels it all out so it doesn’t matter
Anyway well whatever you’re doing it seems to be working for you so keep it up well thank you for doing this conversation and taking the time it’s an absolute pleasure and it’s cool to be here in LA and do it with so sit down and actually do it proper yeah I
Appreciate it no thank you so much you’re welcome than you
3 Comments
38:53 fire wire? Haha
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Nice!
Ventilation, not cavitation.