Since 1982, Dave Meltzer has given 258 matches a rating of 5 stars or better, and it often tends to cause a LOT of controversy. Why, now more than ever, does this one man’s opinion generate such frenzied debate in the IWC? Let’s look at the history of those stars and try to find out.
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0:00 Intro
1:30 How Did We Start Using Star Scales for Wrestling?
7:00 The Sort of Wrestling Big Dave Enjoys
10:33 Why WWE Doesn’t Often Get 5 Stars
13:49 AEW and the REAL Kings of the 5 Star Rating
17:00 Alternatives to Going on and on about Meltzer
#kimjustice #wrestling #wrestlingcommunity #wrestlinghistory
39 Comments
So…what do you think of the big man's star ratings? Are they a hit, or a hash? I'm sure you'll have a good shout in the comments, but do also look at the description because there's lots of great channels to follow there! Thanks for watching.
Meltzer is an old man yelling at clouds. When he not giving 6 stars and up on match ratings he is making up rumours/fake news that get posted as fact on wrestling outlets.
He was interesting as a historian and commenter on wrestling until about 2017. He got progressively more in his NJPW bubble mostly because everyone who went to WWE either stopped talking to him or couldn’t do so publicly. He got very weird about a number of things and when AEW started, with the few performers who still spoke to him, fully gave up impartiality and more weight is put into his opinion on matches than it should be. Regardless of his knowledge/experience, his match ratings are no more valuable than anyone else’s.
The last 5 – 7 years of Meltzer have torched a lot of the goodwill built up over time from his once much more balanced opinions. He spends all day arguing on Twitter or his own message board and he’s been publicly wrong countless times about all sorts. E.g. He didn't see WWE deal with Netflix coming. Another is "Part of The Rock's deal [in signing with TKO] is he was guaranteed a match with Roman Reigns at WrestleMania & that he would win that match" A third is "Shibata's brain was removed, fixed, then reinserted back in." Meltzer also apologised for spreading fake stories about DragonGate not once or twice, but over an entire year.
The problem is Meltzer dominates the dirt sheet community of the wider Internet Wrestling Community and yes he is entitled to his opinions on things, just as everyone else is entitled to their opinions but that doesn't mean his every word is gospel and his WON awards are just as much a sham as his ratings.
I Think Till 2017 His Stars Were Almost Fair
Kurt Angle vs Brock Lesnar only got 4 and 1/4 stars in Japan on March 30th, 2003. Angle also couldn't get one in TNA against Styles so even outside of WWE he couldn't get a 5 star rating.
Great video!
soooooo when's the history of Dirt sheets video dropping
New KJWR!!! YES!!!
It's bizarre that WWE fans think he doesn't like WWE when he's always been, and still is a huge WWE apologist.
The people who hate him and somehow can't comprehend that art is subjective are the ones who put the most weight behind his ratings.
Great idea for a video,
bro. Let's hope the Young Cucks don't seek out revenge with a devastating MeltzerDriver.
I used to think it was cool how hard it was to get 5 stars. I remember thinking 4 stars was kinda a big deal. Now every week there’s 5 star matches for random rampage episodes lol. He broke his own system and is too proud to admit it
I can't think about Meltzer without Jim Cornette screaming "Uncle Dave!!"
Dave Meltzer should do a swanton off the Grand Canyon
Its just one knowledgeable superfans opinion. So what if he thinks your average AEW PPV match is greater than every Kurt Angle match? I read his reviews knowing we don't have the exact same tastes and he seems to have toned down some of his bias lately. He's fine.
Yeah, the "Man has personal opinion that isn't harming anybody, let's fight about it" discourse is beyond absurd. I know that Meltzer's five starts for Joe vs. Punk II in 2004 ROH was something that made me commit to getting into the promotion…just as, I'm sure, his five star ratings for stuff from Dragon Gate, New Japan, and other promotions helped people get into those. To that end, thank you, Big Dave!
The guy clearly likes a certain style of wrestling, specifically stuff in the Kings Road family tree, and also loves innovation and a feeling that he's seeing something new and potentially redefining for the industry…so, no duh, those are the kinds of matches he'll rate highest. I think some of the more recent ones feel a little too easily thrown about, but like the video says, but his own admission he's growing softer with age and just seems happy he gets a lot of matches nowadays that are more in his wheelhouse.
Great call about 2010s NJPW being a high watermark for wrestling not seen since 90s AJPW. Because that was my personal experience as well. Up until I started watching NJPW in 2015, I thought that no era would ever come close to the King's Road, until then. But NJPW proceeded to drop my jaw with on basically every show, and especially at Wrestle Kingdom and during the G1 Climax, which produced 4+ star matches like at the assembly line every year.
The first thing I'm going to do when I finish this video is check out Do Fixer vs Blood Generation.
Well, you're video is a great resume of the ratings system and, for Meltzer, the fact this is his opinion
I think the development of internet, with more accessibility of Meltzer work and other style of wrestling have contribute to this polarize subject.
For me, i will just say : it's an opinion among other, critics, which should get more visibily
Hey Kim.
Thanks for all the wrestling patter ❤ I love it. I know my USA/UK bollocks but good to get some Japanese knowledge. Much love to you and many thanks x
A bloated 50 yr old chris jericho in aew had probably more 4 to 5 star matches from meltzer than prime jericho in wcw/wwf combined. Lol!
Any chance of a Bill Apter video? I feel like you’d knock it out of the park.
The fact that Cody vs AJ styles at backlash got 5 stars ( I had no idea until today) is baffling
Thanks for that little remark on CVV's podcast. That infuriated me listening to it cause there was so much he could have asked Meltzer and instead we got 30 minutes of begging to give Kurt Angle a five star.
Also cool to know about the bushiroad NJPW days that inspire AEW. As a new fan of wrestling and someone who likes AEW'S style, I'll have the check that era out
Feels like star ratings in the 2020s are inflated in value. 5 star rated matches are like the 3 star rated matches back then.
But kudos to Big Dave for covering obscure shoot style promotions in the 90s, the likes of Kingdom Ehrgeiz.
what is wrong with you? remove the blasphemous thumbnail.
I literally don't care but it was a nice guide when I was learning about Japanese women's interpromotional wars in the 90s. When I was dealing with 2007-2009 WWE/TNA flops, good is good idc what the number is.
It’s a shame how strictly wrestling fans have no care for Dave’s coverage of UFC & Pride during the dark ages. He’s the only viable resource for MMA news (now history) in the 90’s through the early 00’s, predating Sherdog. The Observer is every wannabe historians go to guide for learning the ins and outs of UFC history. And that gets completely ignored and under appreciated by the marks who pay him money.
As far as Kurt Angle not having a 5 star match because he was held to the WWE standard I don't think that's a valid excuse. He literally spent more time in TNA then he did in WWE. And sure he had some bad creative but he also had bangers with the likes of Samoa Joe Aj styles sting and a bunch of others. Also when Dave says 4 3/4 is the same as 5 I see as just a cop out.
It's a sensitive tribalist thing.
Hardcore WWE fans just can't stand the success of other companies.
Man, love your videos. You always show great perspectives and some "outside of the box" thinking. You're not into MMA by any chance? Keeping up with pro wrestling should be more than enough, I think..
12:50 Kurt Angle didn't get a single 5 star from Meltzed, not even when he was in TNA?
15:00 Right! Bloodline is just a NJPW stable it's not even being booked like WWE because 'they're outsiders, brother.'
Great thumbnail 😆
Give me a Hell Yeah! Thanks Kim.
I mean it’s obvious he gives better ratings to today’s wrestlers or at least the ones that treat him like a friend and not like the overzealous fanboy he is. There are numerous matches that prove this. Shawn vs Kurt WM, hhh vs Shawn vs Benoit WM, HHH v Rock v Kurt SS, HHH vs Daniel Bryan WM, Shawn v Flair WM, Kurt v Austin, Bryan v Cena SS, Punk vs Brock SS, Undertaker vs Catus Jack HIAC, Catus Jack vs HHH street fight RR etc. all matches that are arguably better and are remembered more fondly and still talked about in the fandom more so then their contemporary matches that earned five stars
I've never seen so many people get mad about another person's opinion while simultaneously saying they don't care about that same man's opinion.
They're meaningless. Meltzer's opinion holds no more weight than your average fan. The dude is just a fan with a platform. Plus wrestling, much like all forms of entertainment are subjective. Take the nWo for instance. Most fans loved it, I thought it was complete $hit once it got passed 5 members.
I don't hate Dave, but the fact that Hogan vs Warrior at WM 6 wasn't a 5 star match is insane. Is it a workrate classic? No. But the energy, atmosphere, set up, and storytelling is second to none.
I give this video six stars. Seven if it had been in the Tokyo Dome.
Meltzer has lost all of his credibility, he only gives good scores to wrestlers he likes or is friends with, who actually cares what he says anymore, especially when he’s an AEW mark.