Who is on the Mount Rushmore of New England Patriots? | 6 Rings & Football Things

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the city of Champions once again representing football style here on the latest six rings and football things brought to you by your friends at Wei Odyssey and 2400 Sports and I gotta say if your football bucket has been a little empty these days or not quite as full as your basketball bucket or your baseball bucket because well the Boston Celtics are the world champions and the Red Sox suddenly are hot than a $2 pistol well don’t you worry because Fitzy and Hart are here with so much football today to talk from the wide world of New England Patriots first things first we’re going to get into this little bit of uh offseason NFL programming the Geniuses at 345 Park Avenue came up with that’s right the NFL Network had a special on this week who made the Mount Rushmore of every NFL team the New England Patriots W pretty Rock Solid I got to say although there is a little bit of room for debate there we’ll talk about that in some of the other Rush Moores on the uptp in the middle here today we’ll get into Pat’s perie that would be all the news notes and Nuggets from around the wide world of Patriots nation and we will finish up with the latest in our offseason Patriots positional previews OPP P yes you know we today we’re going to talk linebackers all right har let’s get into it so this latest little bit of offseason programming that the NFL Network came up with you know we’re are in what is truly the deadest of dead zones when it comes to football right now we’re a month away from training camp for all the NFL teams so really ain’t much going on last week as we spoke with Andrew Callahan he reminded us right now your veterans are not giving an F they are all taking as much time as they need to right now the rookies are installing and trying to figure out what the heck they’re doing it makes total sense and fans right now understandably are probably taking a little bit of an emotional football break as well that’s why offseason programming and content like who made the respective Mount Rush Moores of every NFL team are good for us to be able to chew up and uh spit around batted around a little bit and see who are the four greatest players for each team what was your first thought when you saw that the NFL put this out and what were your initial thoughts on the Patriots Mount Rushmore I should let the audience know the Patriots Mount Rushmore being duh Brady grank Hannah and Ty Law so the first part was like oh yeah they’ve reached that point where we’ve all done this on a random radio shift hey you want to do the Boston Sports Rush more or the Celtics Rush more whatever um so we’ve reached that point that was my first thought then my second was yeah it’s fine it’s interesting people will you know watch it and talk about it and debate it and it is good um I always joke about why we just just because they put four heads on a mountain why do we have to limit it to four why isn’t it five why isn’t it three and that whole thing um but then when you get into the details the other issue that you have for the Patriots if you were going to do a true Mount Rushmore bill bich che’s on it I know this is players but like if you were just doing that bich on oh oh nice wrinkle I didn’t even think of that I mean he’s gotta be like yeah and and in which case like here’s one for example the Green Bay Packers goal pack goal um theirs is wide receiver Don Hudson uh Bart Star Brett favin Aaron Rogers three quart makes a lot of sense I guess yeah but it’s three quarterbacks I hate that that’s quarterback bias that’s like the Super Bowl lot of that on these bu no I know and I I hate that and and I know I’ve preached like you got to take Drake May because you gotta have a quarterback because all that matters in football as a quarterback I hate it but that mentality especially a historic organization like the Packers to be like yep we’re just going to go with all the quarterbacks star and I just and and star I would put on there historically there’s some and I know they’re all one MVPs and they the whole thing I just you can’t but it’s like in this particular instance I understand the QB bias but in this particular instance it’s pretty tough to argue against uh favra and Rogers as well in there yeah but I bet I could get some and I don’t know the Packers have some historically great players especially like linemen from the 60s and 50s and all that and I just like if you could get one of the Patriots all-time greats on here so John Hannah was coached by I don’t know the name doesn’t matter but he was an all-time great Packers lineman fuzzy something something I don’t fuzzy something um I had one of those last night with dinner if you had Hannah on here I’m sure he could argue why three quarterbacks you know Hannah who hates Tony een who probably hates a lot of soft modern quarterbacks um he could probably argue like that’s ridiculous you’re telling me the four best Packers in history three of them are quarterbacks so that is one thing that the the quarterback bias bothers me a little secondary to that is if I were doing a true Patriots Rush more it would be the two guys we talked about a couple weeks ago at Brady KN it’d be Brady and bich and all the rest of y’all can fall in line behind those two those are the top but then I think it would be super I I think the I think the argument can be made for the two teams we’re discussing here in that their coaches should absolutely be on their and then of course the Cleveland Browns with Paul Brown but the Patriots Rushmore if you could just put all Personnel uh coaches whomever would absolutely be it would go Brady belich and then probably Hannah grank and that’s easy that’s it it’s done it’s over I I need to uh so and then Lombardi in place of who for the Packers um Rogers oh wow over favra yeah they each won won Super Bowl I know but I I just look at I don’t know I mean that’s a debate that can be had I think Aaron Rogers is gonna go down as one of the great Underachievers of this generation or any generation the national he’s on his way like just the regular season winning the pure talent the boat always the boat and what does he have to show for it and he’s kind of a dink like and I know Favre was kind of but Favre was a different kind of dink he was like a troubled dink with like substance he was a reck he was a reckless dink he was like the the friend like if we were all out at a know a bar celebrating the Celtics Championship each one of us would have to take turns keeping an eye on Favre because you know it would either be too much or who’s he trying to hook up with or who did he start a fight with like you know there’s a wild card Factor there but you kind of like him like he’s a friend whereas Aaron Rogers is part of your Social Circle and you’re like why do we hang out with this guy we roll our eyes every time we’re with him like on politics at the dinner table I hate going out for burgers with far with Rogers yeah so also I’m sad that I trusted my insurance money with farre there’s there’s various issues for both of them pictures and phones and and everything there’s lots of stuff going on um but to so let’s just to narrow it to the Patriots and just say forget the bellich part the coaching part the players but now I can’t because you got me hooked on that well I mean I can’t believe you didn’t it’s kind of obvious if you start apologetically got very uh you know football field myopic in my focus but like you’re a th% right okay but let’s play their style players so I agree 100% on Brady I agree 100% on Hannah I agree 100% on grank and to me the debate begins in the four slot with ta law where I think there is a pretty disrespectful um lack of acknowledgement and awareness for one Andre tippet I think Tipp I would put tippet Over Law it again it may be personal I like him you know I grew up at the right time where he was sort of part of my sports Heroes you know the Bo Jackson era the Andre tippet era those guys he was one of the only guys to root for back unless you had a Stanley Morgan Jersey he had the he had the uh unenviable positioning of playing in the shadow of Lawrence Taylor I think if he had played a different time Andre tippet would be looked at as one of the greatest defensive players in the history of the game but the fact is he played when Andre when Lawrence Taylor played and that doesn’t do him any favors and the style of play was fun so I personally no disrespect to Ty Law and there’s others you know you if you want to tell me Richard Seymour is a Hall of Famer and should be in the consideration or uh whoever else you may want to argue but I think I would put tippet in um just a slight nose the head of of uh law yeah I I agree because you know we always just you know Andre tippet wears his pants with a black belt he is a badass uh first or second on the team for 10 straight seasons in sackson 100 he made the triple digit sack Club there were very few members of the triple digit sack Club in a different time that number has been deflated over time because quarterbacks throw a bazillion times so when a quarterback throws a bazillion times that means there’s more opportunities for the defense to get sacks he sacked the quarterback a lot when the other team was actually still running the ball and running games and and like it was a it was not a drop back stand in the pocket wait get hit kind of era like we see now so I actually think the I need some analytics dude to put his hundred sacks in perspective I got to think that’s like 140 today or something like that oh easily easily a buck and a quarter yeah and I’m sure you could ask the watt Brothers you could ask miles Garrett you could ask denil Hunter or any of the pass rushing Specialists of the modern NFL and they would all probably tell you like oh yeah Andre tippet is one of the like he’s one of the pass rushing goats for sure I would put tippet there as well just for fun for a little sng let’s make a maybe like a little fory your consideration backup Rushmore um so tipit is first and foremost place of Taw uh I agree with you with Seymour the thing is even though he’s got the bonafides of the yellow jacket and the bronze bust and Canton he doesn’t have any statistical really to back up for it but any single person who ever coached or played against him would tell you that’s one of the greatest defensive linemen of all time or with him the guys that played behind him and around him and said boy my job was a lot easier when Seymour around really really really a lot easier uh Mike Haynes probably even though he spent half his career with the Raiders as well he was still pretty damn good when he was here that’s the problem with some of those early years guys that played other portions of their career elsewhere um like Nick bonani I think is in that world played for the Dolphins later as part of the their great defense that’s a there’s a fun one um and I think just because of the sheer impact of some of his plays with all with all due respect to many of the other you know great players the Mosses the Welker the Edelman who probably would like to have their name called out or their voice heard I think just because of the magnitude of three specific plays I probably have to put vinary in the four spot on my backup Rushmore SL for your consider yeah uh I would have vinary very much in the running because an argument can be made he’s the greatest kicker of all time now then it’s like whoa where does the greatest kicker of all time weighin with the greatest quarterback of all time tight end of all time guard of all time you know what I mean like they got some goats and that puts him probably on that second tier um I think Ben coats is in like a second tier conversation he again over bledo wow like tip it oh oh absolutely cuz coats is closer to like alltime great than Drew is Drew’s really good quarterback second best quarterback in the history of the franchise until May passes him um and like I love Ben coats in that if he didn’t play behind grank or he didn’t play in that era or played in this era and actually got to play in January and February more often I think people would remember Ben coat as a totally different player shorter run and you know similar to grank that if you’re going to take that kind of an ass whooping you’re probably not going to last very long at that position the way and also while wearing number 87 won a Super Bowl with another team gross yeah no it’s it’s um so ring I think Stanley Morgan should probably be um on some sort of a tier again high class problems for the Patriots because you do have so many truly elite players that have come through especially you know weighted a little bit generationally like some people would want to probably put Gino capelletti in there I don’t know that he really measures up in terms of you know goat status but certainly an all-time Patriot great and the numbers the all-time leading score and the versatility and coming out of the AFL is a trailblazer too there’s a little bit of the respect for great guy great guy I get by that the nicest um hell man in this case well I i’ I’d almost even make an argument for freaking Gil Santos being up there because he was so damn good at what he did for so long for the team but that being said I think we can all agree the Mount Rushmore should be if you’re just talking about people that controlled or had a direct influence on the game Brady belich gronowski and Hannah as well like if you’re a team like I thought this one this was probably you know as accurate an assessment as you could possibly have for a Rushmore the Carolina Panthers Cam Newton Luke Keeley Julius Peppers Steve Smith I mean yep that’s like an an arguable Rushmore now granted their history is also decade shorter than the Patriots or the Legacy teams like the Packers as as well but that’s kind of perfect teams that are H teams where their radio stations will have the phone lines lit up for days because it’s so difficult a team like the Steelers right yep I mean there’s probably 15 different guys on the Steelers and I know they’ve got Bradshaw and rothberger on there I even heard people on our radio station arguing like this is bananas you can’t have those guys the swans and the stalwarts and Webster and so many other players yeah there’s so many and that’s again where quarterback gets the bias like quarterback gets the nod gets and it’s yeah you think of them they’ve had some of the greatest centers in the history of the sport Demitri dawon and Mike Webster and those guy like it’s that’s how deep a franchise they’ve been um and of course simpletons like us are always going to lean to who put this together by the way do we have like a I know it was NFL films but was there like I don’t think they said like it was like a relative of the sabs and Rosenthal and Daniel they I don’t think they told us who the committee was that selected okay yeah because I I also always wonder about gener safy um yeah but I always wonder about the generational aspect to it and sort of who you saw like this would be a fun thing if Bill just wanted to you know start a blog now that he’s got some downtime and he’s just hanging on the out on the boat and he just wanted to you know do these things he’s actually commenting on his own Instagram feed and signing at BB like theid presidents do when they make it their own um but if he wanted to do something like this based on his top was it top 100 players of all time he took part in and all that I would love to see him Bill bellich check’s rundown of the rushmor for every team and see his perspective right he may tell you that Jack Lambert Terry Bradshaw Joe Green Ben rothberger is solid but here’s like he’ll rattle off 19 other players 11 of which and we we consider ourselves relative football hardos who probably know the the the stars and studs and Hall of Famers of the 70s 80s 90s 2000s and beyond for most teams he’d probably rattle off five or six names you’d go uh I’m sorry Bill who right oh yeah but it these are fun um I do think the Patriots won they did a good job like you can’t say definitively well this Pro Football Hall of Famer is way better than that Pro Football Hall of Famer right like so right Taw Andre tippet you’re lucky you have a lot of Hall of Fame caliber Talent that’s played now over generations and that’s why I also wondered was it a sheer younger committee and they’re just like tyw I don’t know who Andre tippet really was I know he was in the Hall of Fame but I didn’t really see him play he does have three you know he does lead the Patriots in so many individual defensive statistics and also three Super Bowls hot Splash play in a Super Bowl dominating pton Manning and a couple of those AFC playoff games as well but again that’s where the Coates and the Tippets of the world I would say yeah put them on better teams and I think you’d be remembering and glorifying all their impact plays right like you know who’s a dark horse here never is doesn’t deserve consideration in a way but does deserve consideration in a way if you’re talking in that sense we’re here for it go ahead your linebacker coach Dante Hightower like he’s he had a really underrated career that’s not going to get maybe the credit it deserves like for example no deserves you’re absolutely right he deserves every single bit if if tyw is your first half of the double dynastic run defensive star that makes the rush more Dante Hightower made just as many impactful plays in Super Bowls if not maybe actually more and I’m gonna say something right now that you people may not like all right you people all you people you’ve already made everyone feel good about it um Dante hi Tower blows Teddy bruski’s career out of the water but I think most passionate Patriots fans just have a first portion of the dynasty soft spot in their heart for Teddy brusi but just and this is no disrespect to Teddy brusi really good player really good teammate really good Patriot really good Champion everything Dante high tower was a physical freak who made some of the biggest plays in the franchises history to win Bill said it the other day at the Tom Brady event like I don’t know how some of those Super Bowls go if we don’t have Dante high tower like correct these banners up here you wouldn’t have needed to do the uh construction to make room for more banners you could probably squeeze it down a little bit and it’s and also you know and and we’ll uh kick it into the next leg of the podcast with pats perie coming up in just a quick second but this is one I have fun discussing and debating here and and wherever else there are Frosty cold beverages and Hardy football dialogues otherwise known as Snapchats around these parts when the Patriots if they ever do retire the number 87 you best honor two people on that night and not just say that’s gr’s number because we were lucky enough to have two people wear this number Each of which deserved Patriots Hall of Fame recognition and potential NFL Hall of Fame recognition with Ben coats and Rob gronowski same deal for 54 I think if you’re going to retire two more numbers and then just say we’re gonna go Ring of Honor from this point forward Dante hi Tower and Teddy brusi both were Legends wearing 54 and I would feel awkward if I were anyone else wanting to wear those numbers 87 or 54 going forward it’s kind of like 10 from ma Jones to Drake May uh how about jimy nope no oh wait all right what do you say Pat there’s a history of that being a soft quarterback number that’s a a I know bold of Drake Maya want to continue the number going forward as well uh and of course we all know that uh young Thomas Edward Patrick Brady would have worn number 10 as well on the Patriots if it weren’t for who was it again who was wearing at the time I’m gonna say Lee Johnson but I’m not sure if that’s right correct I was going to say Lee Boden but that was actually the wrong Lee it was le e not l i g h anyway you’re off by like 12 years yeah but I had the first name rightish give me a little credit first name right and the generation wrong is wrong all right mute his microphone oh that’s right we don’t have a producer he’s at the hour back Center all right what do you say Pats fans do you like the Patriots Mount Rushmore fun little activity any other rushmor that the NFL Network put out that you like holler at your boys fit and Hart I’m at Fitzy gfy he’s at jumbo Hart and of course this right here is the at six rings pod all right we’re moving on to some Pats perie right now Andy uh we got a lot of just like nothing seismic or Monumental going on in Pat’s Nation right now just a lot of little things that Merit discussion here on the Pod because that’s how we do first things first uh according to a story in the athletic recently if the New England Patriots were to play a game that means something now which they are not thank God jacobe brassette would in fact be the starter if when we get to Camp Drake May and jacobe brette uh play their play is commensurate to one another if they’re on an even playing field like Bret’s had a good camp Drake May’s had a good to very good camp if they are neck and neck brassette will be the default starter with May looking to possibly get in sooner than most had expected it is going to take again according to the athletic but these are probably the same reasonably informed sources that you and I hang out with on media Hill and that and that you uh often discuss football matters with in some of those post-practice six rings pods it’s G to take Drake may clearly beating out jacobe Brett in order to win the starting job week one for the Patriots I still don’t see that happening so I think we all just sort of need to come around on the idea that it’s going to be number 14 and not number 10 under Center uh week one September 8th 1 in the PM out in the Natty against uh Joe excuse me uh fat was it was it was he modeling for Versace Joe burrow was he went in Paris Justin Jefferson and Joe burrow were modeling for Versace and yeah you know that whole no Diva quarterbacks that has to push the boundaries of whether he’s a diva quarterback or not and I don’t think he is because you also have that famous story who told it Elliot wolf about like when they asked Joe burrow what his favorite memory was it was like playing middle linebacker in high school football and stopping somebody on the goal line or something like I I don’t think Joe B is a diva quarterback but he kind of does some things that are diva-ish what like to say Diva adjacent Diva adjacent very well done Hart I will say this though um he looked pretty damn good like he’s he got rid of the Anakin Skywalker here he’s back to the Joey bur cut and he looks all look like not gonna say I think a lot of people saw that and went would would you I bet he I bet he pushed his way past a lot of other former players or current nflers onto some Hall Pass lists after that one that being said anyway brassette will be your starter unless otherwise uh yeah validated by I don’t to me this conversation has always been about October is he ready by October is he not ready is it late October ear like I’ve always just kind of penciled in brassette for month one um and may had a nice up and I keep saying it up and down progression there were some highs and some lows but he’s overall sort of moving his way along in progression um but I never felt like oh he’s got to be the starter and I think some of it will be circumstantial we’ve talked about this the offensive line give them a chance to settle in figure out who they are what they are before you put the future of the franchise out there and no disrespect to jacobe brassette but you’re Expendable the other guy’s not and so if we’re g to have runaway rushers and problems early in the year you’re going to take the lumps and the hits that go along with it so also if you just recall you know my memory I anointed quite quite braggadocious Le um in June that yes that M Jones was going to be the starter not Cam Newton and it played out that way I do not feel that same mindset mentality observation of what was going on like it just didn’t feel like FastTrack Drake May and get him out there plus we have Alex Van Pelt just flat out on the record jacobe brassett our starter and same with Elliot wolf yeah so like I think they came in with a plan and a timeline and I think it would be I think it’s I won’t say impossible but again I’d put it at like 10% chance for Drake May to to alter that timeline now I I have a expedited timeline of like I said four gamish now we got to talk and figure out what’s going on now we’re talking Drake May time so you’re taking the under on my six and a half games until Drake May starts right now I’m Tak I reserve the right to change that as Camp goes on oh we started hitting and now he looks like he you know it’s moving a little fast for him he’s not quite ready or doesn’t bounce back from certain things but yes right now I’m looking toward four games into the season I’m starting to think about it’s time to put Dam Drake May on the field and start the future quick reminder for all of our listeners ships uh Patriots open the season like I said in Cincinnati September 8th 1M against the Bengals then they have their home opener they host the Seahawks then they have a Thursday night quick turnaround at the jetr poits then they have 10 days to prepare for the whooping of the century at 405 September 29th out in San Francisco I wonder if the most interesting thing about that game won’t be will you know will Drake May finally see the field next week it could be might that be the only game Brady gets like well like if that’s a fox game we don’t know who’s broadcasting a lot of these games except for Netflix on Christmas Thursday night games for Amazon and of course your Monday night football games for ESPN and ABC a lot of the rest of the CBS FOX action has yet to be has yet to be decided but that could potentially be the Tom Brady calls a Patriots game game which would be kind of fascinating yeah I I think there’s probably another one later at a statue game um I’m guessing the league and fox and everybody’s going to do Robert a solid because Robert said there’s going to be a 12- foot statue later this season I would Circle the Rams game in November I was gonna say November 17th Rama jamas at your Patriots and that could also Andy be when Drake you could have a drake may start there because that would be 1 2 3 4 5 six seven eight n that would be the 11th ball game of the season too long no no no no oh no oh no no no I to okay so I would Circle that as a potential Brady game too circling back around to that 49ers game coming off a Thursday night you have an extended period to prepare for the 49ers I think that week you could see an uptick in Drake maize practice reps not in preparation to start necessarily but in preparation when that game gets out of hand to see decent garbage time in the second half and then the week after that make his first start having two weeks of extended practice reps including that time Peri just I’m throwing that timeline a home game against the Lins and a potentially overcompensated to a tongue of ioa well Hawk Tua wouldn’t that be something I love how much that is taken off it is insane it’s bananas now it’s awful I mean it’s terrible by God that that that girl has a father and I was just I was literally gonna say like you know like you joke around like if your kid smashes a baseball and you just yell from the stands like yeah son that baseball had a family that’s ingest we can’t personify actual Sports items or you know inanimate objects this girl she has a family and relatives and her dad there’s no doubt her dad has seen that at this point and just gone oh this has gone viral like few things that are are um questionable or blue or whatever world you want to put that in I know if anything goes this viral period anymore usually if it goes this viral it’s safer whereas this is close to a third rail and there are like legitimate social media accounts that have made references to this us this in their social media plan for this week and I feel bad I mean the poor girl she’s clearly liquored up when she does the interview and everybody knows what we’re talking about if not look it up it’s funny like we all probably learned of it Andy by first seeing like why is there a picture of AJ Hawk next to TU a tonga vioa I don’t understand why this is on my timeline click on link uh oh oh sometimes you know I’m sure my wife would tell you considering that there hasn’t been a dry toilet seat for her to sit on in our house for over 10 years she probably would have loved at least a daughter since we have two boys that said there are days like this where I’m super glad I am the father of two boys because I would not know how to handle this that was an unexpected digression but when you’re doing six rings and football things with the very mature and highly developed Andy Hart and Nick Fitzy Stevens this is how you get wait a minute no no no we’re not taking any blame for this the entire world has embraced this as a meme I apologize for nothing yeah it just shows we’re all immature and a little perverted at heart correct now Andy we discuss uh I also wanted to mention uh we kind of eak into it a little bit there but did you happen to see uh you may have seen a quick clip of Brady uh in the UFL championship and in the booth with I foret it was Kurt mene and Charles Johnson I no no somebody else I forget who it was uh anyway long story short he shows up in the booth couple days after Brady night looking like a million dollars sounds great looks great totally playing the part hell I’m telling you still right now depending on how things go Thursday night with our two Uber geriatric presidential candidates if Brady appeared in a video on his Instagram Friday and said I am Tom Brady and I am a candidate for US president we would have a new front runner by Sunday then Brady shows up on the herd a couple days later did you listen to any of his appearance on the herd the clips are too long to fold a whole one in here right now but I just want to say if we get a sco a tidbit just a morsel a nugget of how good he was on the herd in the booth this fall and going forward with Kevin Burkhart people are going to be going Beyond those 2017 like whoa this Tony Romo is unbelievable it’s like I’ve never heard a color analyst before an NFL Booth Brady exp just taking you inside his mind and how and why he did everything the way he did and the way quarterbacks and football players think playto playay uh series to Series game to game was effing fantastic so I am now more optimistic about Brady as a color analyst based on what I have a question though is this going to be generational is he going to resonate with late 30s 40s 50 something hardos old school and my day football kind of people and is he going to get ey rolls as I said earlier maybe from some of the younger Generations as he’s describing quarterback the way he played it the way he thinks it should be played and some kid is like I’m Gonna Roll left I’m going to throw right and I’m going to put on a dime at 70 yards you old coot I’m not going to keep my front should they tight and I’m not going to have perfect mechanic like I just I wonder if this is if there’s going to be a little generational um interpretation or line here where like some people love Brady and then some people are like yeah shut up you goat you had your run we play different now but doesn’t it help though that he’s only now what a little over a year he’s a year and a half removed from the playing field still has relationships with all these guys played played against Allen played against burrow played against M like he the these were all actual contemporaries and adversaries of him as well so for the next at Le I think for the next half dozen years I think he’s spot on plus also the reverence they all show for him as well I think that kind of keeps things in the proper perspective for Brady and the booth as well yeah no I I think the player part of it I think they’ll be respectful of him I’m thinking more 13-year-old fans 18year old fans 22y old fans I think there’s going to be some fans that just look at him we’ll see and and the relationships you mention are also some of my concerns how critical is he going to be willing to be and some of those aspects that go into being the truly best color commentator because if you’re just if everything’s awesome and everything’s great and everything is the offense is awesome and the defense stinks like that gets old that gets old quick and you you’re biases and I I hope he I know he’ll be self-deprecating I know there will jokes about himself and not being able to do what a lot of these guys can do and the the Allen and the Mah I could never move like that I could never make that throw here’s Kevin why I would never consider making that throw because I just didn’t have that ability that Josh Allen or who knows um but I think Jordan love he’ll be good in like he’s just a smart guy who’s seen a lot and I think he’ll be really good about systems and schemes and coordinator changes and how valuable it was for him to play for 20 years in the same system and how much they’re probably hanging out you know this quarterback X who now has his third coordinator in three or four years no I am I’m more optimistic about Brady the color commentator now than I was previously but I still I still want to see it play out and exactly how he’s if he’s gonna go all in and he can’t backtrack that’s the other thing don’t committed don’t be like the freaking roast and be Allin and collect your $30 million and be the executive producer and then [ __ ] about it later no if you say something own it yeah that that was a cya move if ever before which I think was a little unnecessary it was dink is it was dink you see that UFC guy that uh obliterated him for it he did it in a very inappropriate fashion yeah I was I was not not a fan of that like you got you have no you have no quarrel you have no business with Tom Brady in that capacity hush now but he wasn’t wrong he just may have you know wanted to package it a little bit more he kind of overstepped his bounds a little bit yeah I would say so for sure sometimes we get on a roll and you say things you regret later yeah that that’s otherwise why do we even pod bro uh quick side uh little digression here and then we’ll get to our last two little Pats nuggets before we uh hit the third and final leg of course which will be our Patriots off seasonal position preview pop sometimes I call it op PP sometimes I call it pop you never know just uh watch me for changes and try to keep up people I did work a as the MC at a sports card and memorabilia show this past weekend in Marboro for our friends at the North sports card Expo was fun little job hey were you also at Brady night I forget oh yeah I don’t know did you know I did two hours of the uh red carpet yeah no script too just flying by the seat in my pants not bad give me that microphone yeah right I have another one zo um so and then pass it back to me and say I don’t know what to do next that was actually something everyone didn’t hear so they like I don’t know anyway um zo is a legend in his own mind I was gonna say for a lot of reasons and in a special place called his mind um so anyway working at the card show this weekend I just thought this was interesting I wanted to pass this along so in going up and speaking to a lot of the different card dealers I think you’d find this interesting I kept asking them what’s the one card the football cards because football cards have come a long way baseball cards are kind of not the thing anymore now football cards are where the money is at the price on some of them good God and there’s too many to keep up with one out of one million packs oh this is the Chrome one this is the autograph one this one has a jersey piece stitched into it how old are you I I I’m just catching up 50 by the way I’m cing 100 oh there too many cards and this one has Chrome and this one why don’t you go why don’t you go survey all the cards and you’ll see and you’ll be like wow there really has cool dude it used to be Don Russ Fleer and Topps that’s it you had to keep up with that now the Panini people are by the way losing their rights Panini people are losing their exclusive card rights now Fanatics is gonna get into the game based on the way Fanatics has screwed up everything else I’m sure they’ll screw up cards as well say we may lose them as a potential sponsor but also I’m not too thrilled about what they may be doing in the card Biz anyway I thought you’d find this interesting the three most the two most requested cards and the the interesting speculation card I thought it might be Drake May is even regionally because I’ve bought some Drake May rookies for my kids as investment pieces Jordan love and CJ Stroud are the two most requested because people are way in on the at people have already bought their Mahomes and their Burrows people are a little nervous about burrow and the injury and if his card value will come down everybody laughs about how much M Jones cards used to be worth versus what they’re worth now worst investment ever the player that one dealer told me keep an eye on and maybe even a fellow like yourself who could be a little Thrifty at times but loves turning a dime into a dollar said the player to maybe consider speculating on right now because his stock couldn’t be lower but you can still go out and buy some very nice cards and this season they have nowhere to go but up Bryce young I can see that Dave Canales uh Xavier Legette Deontay Johnson Bryce Young’s apparently put on a ton of uh offseason uh muscle and weight this year so he can try to keep up like maybe he’ll turn into the Carolina Kyler Murray that a lot of people could see him being not not a terrible little piece of advice that guy gave off right there no you’re definitely buying low and you’re projecting that the love for him was more right than the hate for him basically you’re turning the clock back a year uh a year and saying there was a reason reason he was the number one pick there was a reason that the Texans also wanted him as their quarterback before they settled on let’s remember that bit of revisionist History correct cuz CJ strad he’s the number one card by the way he is everyone everyone in the business all the fans are expecting him to just and with the roster that they’ve built down there I’m still on the record saying AFC Championship this year for the Texans but I’m saying his cards are overvalued right now wow Steph Diggs don’t let him enter the chat all right last two little pieces speaking of over are undervalued we have two little uh Power Ranking nuggets here for you to wrap up Pats perie uh pro football talk has put out their pre-amp power rankings Andy did you see it I did what do you think 31st overall for your New England Patriots well since I have said there’s a possibility this team goes 0 and 17 I believe um it’s kind of accurate you I joked with you that there’s not going to be many games where you think the Patriots have the better team like they play the Panthers what’s that the first preseason game I think so that may be the last time when you think they’re definitely the better team or they have the better roster or the better whatever um now there’s other winnable games like don’t get me wrong the Cardinals are on the list the Titans are on the list Rams are on the list Seahawks are on the list yeah but who knows what the Jags are gonna look like this year the Jags those are those are all in play um or debatable or talking points depending on one team because that’s the other thing we know teams and players change dramatically from what we think of them in June or even what we think of them in August and early September when we’re drafting our fantasy teams and you’re like what an idiot why did I think that guy was going to be so good and you realize he stinks and vice versa some guy that’s going late is going to be a stud in the centerpiece of his team and blah blah blah so all this is Up For Debate but I don’t know like they either start jacobe brassette or Drake May so they have an unproven or proven and don’t like him quarterback right they don’t have a left tackle they don’t have a receiver their defense is good but as we’ve talked about you’re putting a lot of stock in a cornerback who’s played 3.2 games in his career like and a slot and a slot Corner who is once again kicking to the outside out of need and a slot Corner who is coming back after the entire year being missing his entire sophomore season with the same injury Gonzo had that caused him to miss 13 and a half games and a head coach and coaching St that has never really done these jobs any of them so there’s there’s if you want to make an argument for why the Patriots are one of the worst teams in football it’s really easy to do I guess is how I’d say well it could also be because ESPN says they have the 27th best roster overall oh so that’s better than 31 up and that’s funny because that comes off of our friend Mina KES saying the Patriots have a top five defense where what is her deal she she she loves she loves a lot of things but two of them are J poke receiver and the Patriots defense yeah she loves numbers that’s what she loves oh DV o a XYZ qrp War vorp put it all together and they’re pretty good like um yeah I think she’s nuts and not just because um I have questions about some of the talent but also because a lot of those numbers remember our numbers and numbers get exposed against good competition and when you f you have the 49ers circled for a uh ass whooping Christian mcaffrey Debo whatever Christian mcaffry Darkhorse candidate for MVP according to nfl.com not much of a Darkhorse if you ask me well you know what he’s due for Miss six weeks with a hamstring injury right that’s what he’s due for um but that’s a day right there I feel pretty sure that’s gonna hurt the Patriots chances to be a top five defense that day alone and forget about the other ones like the Bengals could embarrass you on opening day if you’re not ready they could put four hang 40 on you an opening day right is it going to be Ricky piol in the Brandon auk spot because now it looks like he’s going to grous his way out POS I think he wants to get traded to the commander so he can be wide receiver 1A with his boy Jaden Daniels that would also if if they make a PowerPlay and go get auk I I still think they have enough receiving star power between Debo piol um who’s the kid that oh Joan Jennings who actually had a great postseason as well he just signed for K and mcaffrey as offensive players um that would all of a sudden give the commanders like a the potential for like a sneaky fun offense with Cliff Kingsbury yeah we’ll see I mean all these things are theoreticals remember we thought the Patriots might have a sneaky fun offense last year M Jones Is Gonna bounce back Bill O’Brien is a you know a proven coach how’ that work out I don’t think I ever thought that and F funny thing is they didn’t and I think a lot of you thought they were gonna we kept saying they were going to be competent and capable and we were using used the wrong CWS they were a bunch all right and there’s your Pat PR everybody we’ve gone we’ve already gone long on segment two which we thought was going to be a Brisk brief uh runaround everything going on in the we could we could talk about Bryce beringer’s golf game for a while if we wanted to uh and so many other things but that’s what we got going on there’s your nuggets if there’s anything else any other tidbits feel free to send them to us once again at jumbohart at fitzygfy and at six rings pod all right Andy now it’s time for our final leg here on the latest six rings in football things podcast our Patriots offseason positional previews pop continue this week last week we were on the offensive side of the ball you happen to have heard we did it live live blanket we’ll do it live on the rich Keef show of course you probably heard it here on the six rings and football things podcast feed we’re now Swit that was the wide receiver position uh I was hopeful Andy said what was your uh I was optimistic or hopeful and you say competitive you went back to the seaword for the New England Patriots receiver room which it’s funny as we were just recently discussing uh ESPN’s ranking of the Patriots roster the 27th best they said by far the most glaring weakness or the weakest spot would be receiver on the team I there’s a chance I think receiver could I don’t get no I what else do they have to do draft two kids you got a bunch of jet I mean there’s a bunch of twos and threes but is it that bad well I don’t know just like I don’t know about cornerback like if if let’s just say Demario Douglas is really good in his second year after showing flashes as a rookie and let’s just say somebody from the KJ Osborne Juju Smith Schuster KJ I mean uh Kendrick Bourne group has a really nice year isn’t that the same as thinking Christian Gonzalez is going to be the best corner and Jonathan Jones is going to be good like you have a rookie that you’re hoping really overachieves and blows up in year two who showed flashes and you have a veteran you’re hoping to lean on like it’s weird starting to push back against how bad the wide receiver position is it doesn’t have a one and I it’s lacking that Elite Talent but I don’t know I just sort of the way some of these positions are being assessed is is starting to bother me a little bit well this will be a very interesting one to assess because I don’t think anyone really knows who necessarily aside from one or two people play this particular position we’re back on the defensive side of the ball today we’re going to take a look at the linebacker position Andy let’s go ahead and do it the way we like to do it here let’s start off with an adjective what one single word would you use to describe the Patriots linebacker room heading into the 2024 season good enough wait did you say one word yes so um this one of those like slang G uh G um how about what would adequate suffice sure okay adequate adequate but I think when you put together guys like Joan Bentley and gilany Tay like are they underrated by the way um gilany Tay is underrated yeah I think Bentley is sort of the classic if you’re good enough to be the starting middle linebacker you’re going to make a bunch of tackles like that goes with the job like you’re going to get those opportunities I still think athletically there’s times where he gets exposed and is a little bit limited um but he’s he’s fine like you can do much worse you can significantly worse at that position and then Tay has versatility he’s certainly evolved in his time he used to catch a lot of Strays from Pats fans the same way miles Bryant did and it was unwarranted like he’s a pretty solid football and I bet if you got bill bich on the Horn uh right he would probably tell you like oh Tay was one of my guys I have a lot of cheap shot jokes in my head I was just gonna Andy nope do not think of nope don’t go 72 and 24 the Matt right now he’s currently involved in a matl to law romance and we’ll just leave it at that there were things in my mind that were like is your dad home can your dad come to the phone there were defin no I got a lot of I got a lot of flack for saying what happens if belich and the young lady are ever out on an event he he’d have to rent the car he’d probably get a senior citizen discount there’s a lot of there’s a lot of there’s a lot going on anyway we’re gonna move on linebackers um but I think that’s I’m unsubscribing you disrespected the coach well I mean I think the coach disrespected the coach but or the world around him or social norms or there’s a lot of her PR her previous bf was 64 so she has a type anyway yeah it’s not all his fault now we’re finding it’s not all his fault but I mean n it is what anyway anyway don’t One Life to Live enjoy it yourself six rings football thanks um linebackers all right so linebackers but joining um now this is this is where it gets kind of nebulous Andy because know Bentley is your like he’s like the one true linebacker linebacker he’s like your middle linebacker even though he’s listed as left inside linebacker on the depth chart joining him is galani Tavi don’t forget rayquan McMillan still in the house poor guys had so many tornado more he’s had more torn ACLs than he’s had healthy Seasons since he’s been with the New England Patriots you also have and this is where it gets kind of like Marte mapu listed on espn.com as a linebacker Anthony Jennings now he’s uh underrated linebackers he just signed that three-year 12 million deal to remain with the Patriots free agent C takitaki no more Tak course and of course uh joh toi and Matthew judon now see I don’t think I don’t know if mapu is going to end up being a linebacker or a safety I don’t think the team knows either and also like I guess Edge is a linebacker or can’t Edge also be a defens like Edge is that nebulous position that I I just hate the the high the fictionalized name in that case when it comes to guys that are third down backs like an Antonio Gibson he’s not just a running back he’s also a receiver so should he so should he just be called like um what they used to call jard Robinson ow offensive weapon right well it’s kind of like in college where some people are now recruited as athletes and they get to that school and then they figure out where they’re going to put them because they’re just a good athlete coming out of high school um right I want to rewind to mapu who okay is a guy that normally I would think Andy Hart me would be like cynical of and like pessimistic um I found myself watching him run around in OTAs in mini camp and I’m kind of becoming optimistic about him like I just I’m not sure where it’s going to work but I feel like I’m gonna want old school Bill bellich used to have like 17 starters on defense basically he would have all these guys that like their role players matchups week to week whatever and they all were going to play a lot you weren’t sure when how why but it was going to happen I feel like I want mapu in that that rotation and I know you have a roster like ESPN in their ranking of the roster said their best position is safety because Kyle Doug or jabril Peppers is like a really mapu in another world if you didn’t have those two guys or maybe if jabil peppers in a year or two was gone and ages out maybe he’s in that sort of big safety role the Adrien um Phillips Adrien Phillips Jesus I was gonna call him Gonzalez I was like no that’s definitely not right Adrian Gonzalez totally different nope um but I’m I’m kind of buying in on mapu and then in a similar but very different fashion if we’re going to talk about these where do they fit guys and and athletes uh my guy Keon white who I’m definitely buying in on has been standing up quite a bit on the edge of the defense now I don’t love that I think that’s probably that’s like a niche rolled let’s not do that too often I think a good offensive coordinator if he figures out how to scheme that we’ll expose the hell out of Keon white you’re taking him out of his comfort zone but both of those two guys bring um Blended athleticism to the linebacker room that I kind of like that I’m intrigued by and now it’s on the only man whose title is the same as his initials Demarcus Covington uh it’s on him to figure out when they should be on the field and how to use them but I’m intrigued well there is the potential for the uh you the regular hybridization if you will of the Patriots defense I also my apologies I left one out of the mix there’s a bunch of names you’ll probably never he again like um Joe Giles Harris joam Russell oane zines uh there’s a lot of names on there that steel oh they got steel Chambers find steel Chambers from Ohio favorite name coming out of the draft yes I didn’t even know Chambers made it to the Patriots Oh Happy Day no he was doing porn actually that’s exactly why I wanted the name wanted the player shot in the porn industry um oh no Josh uch as well now see like you mentioned now see you mentioned Keon white he’s list as left defensive end and listed as right defensive end is Christian barmore to me Keon white and Christian barmore couldn’t be more different as football players if they had to aside from the fact that they’re both big strong and want to get after the quarterback so I don’t know like I don’t think of Josh uch as a linebacker he’s a pass rusher uh C Taki Taki has taken over for um Mack Wilson senior this year as sort of the uh coverage guy apparently his coverage numbers last year in Cleveland were excellent so we hopefully we’ll be calling out his name often for another great pass break up or holy smoke numbers up your ass what’s that I said stick your coverage numbers up your ass way oh come on it’s good coverage numbers are good pass breakups are good tight coverage is good uh I it’s just such a such an in like it used to be here comes another back in my day here’s your latest Boomer moment on six rings in football things but we definitely grew up in an era where there were four linebackers or three linebackers usually left side the strong side weak side and a middle linebacker now linebacker is and they didn’t wear single digits either and they’ve like the the fusion of safeties and linebackers and defensive ends and Edge players and whatever basically you just have a couple of fat guys a couple of corners and then you’ve just got football players in the middle now basically in an NFL defense and I think the fact that you said you were interested in or higher on mapu than you were previously that you’re definitely in on Kean white and we know your unrequited man crush for Christian barmore maybe it’s the fact that the Patriots do have the potential for a diverse interesting and effective linebacker room like there that puts the mea kimes of the world uh saying that the Patriots have a top five a potential for a top five defense this year because there does seem to be a bit more Talent there than uh the eye May initially glance and recognize yes I I think there is some of that um but just because I like watching them run around in shorts is probably not necessarily a direct who had his Growing Pains last year I know Daniel Jeremiah loved the player coming out last year for the Patriots but like he had to get smoked by Tyreek Hill with um JC Jackson and coverage like those are the things that are supposed to happen when you’re a rookie what does he make of his sophomore season and and I think this is you know we all talk about the athletes on offense well you need to match athletes at some level you know on the field you need to match tight ends running backs slot receivers bully slot receivers like the very Debo Samuel what is he how am I dealing with him like and I know it’s not basketball so it’s not like manto man you got to match up everything but it is in a sense like you got to kind of keep the number of athletes somewhat even on the field I think you can get exposed and these guys are athletes now you’re right like Josh uch to me I’ve in my mind has become and this is how they were sold coming in Jennings and uch Jennings was more of a run player could set the edge play The Edge I thought he played really well last year indeed is your pass rusher who everybody LS I I don’t think he’s reached the potential people claim he has as a pass rusher one year $3 million deal he did not have the market that he thought no he turned down much more elsewhere he said much more much more because people do that all the time they they turn down large sums of money to be a questionable rotational player on a bad football team always always oh that’s see you just you could have just left it out there people turn down lots of money for some place they say their hard is invested in but you to say rotational player on a bad football team I like to say um you know a um a movable part uh or a uh multifaceted piece on an evolving football team you can put lipstick on the pig however you want I call it bacon how does lipstick taste by the way when you make bacon I’ve never good probably not very good not good so again like I I can’t like I can’t tell you exactly what the linebacker room’s going to be I can’t tell you exactly who’s going to make it I think this is is like Joan Bentley and gilany Tay will play the bulk of the snaps and Taki talki as well and Jen but see again Jenn is kind of end talkie we’ll see about Taki talkie I don’t just I’m not like Bill bellich late in his career I don’t just give jobs away in my football World you got to earn your job you got to earn your playing time you got to get in where you fit in and you got to find a way to fit in so we’ll see Mr Talkie talkie this is the two of us talkie talkie for almost an hour on a Tuesday morning yeah here so I’m gonna say Andy my my my assessment and my final so we open with adequate saying like it’s an adequate room like it’s a it’s a good room it’s not great has the potential to be something else I’m gonna say that my projected single like at the end of the season like we did with like like wide receivers at the end of the season I can’t give you an adjective to describe the Patriots right now like I’m gonna give them a big fat TBD because I don’t know exactly what the room’s going to be like because of its hybridization and the fact you know I don’t know how Demarcus is going to deploy a lot of these guys and what their positions are going to be yeah positionist defense is the way of the future bro all right that’s fine maybe that’s the nature of playing linebacker in the modern NFL but I can’t tell you exactly what I think it’s going to be right now so I’m gonna go TBD trending upward of course um there’s always that positive little spin I like it appreciate it be Fanboy listen Fanboy Lane doesn’t occupy itself bro um I am going to say evolving I think that’s a a good good word and we should mix in also an interesting position that is being coached by two of the better players at its position in the last 10 to 15 years with mayo as the head coach still working with the linebackers Dante Hightower figuring out who he is as a coach working with the linebackers so that’s that’s a value we’ll we’ll see if that’s a positive I hope it is I know high tower was very um honest in that like this has been eye openening you know jumping into the coaching ranks and like being able to run an hour and a half meeting and not being prepared the first time was like uhoh I don’t really have enough enough ready for these guys for an hour and a half meeting uh why we take a break anybody want coffee let’s let’s hey you guys watching that show the boys on Amazon no all right um I’ll say evolving because I do think you’re you’re right the position is evolving I think they’re getting more athletic I like seeing them get more athletic in an Ideal World and this is going to sound harsh you’re you’re more athletic than Jaan Bentley really provides so that’s an Evolution at some point probably but for now he’s your leader he’s your captain he’s your Green Dot he is your main stay and he’s going to probably try to stay that way what kind of season will we get out of Matthew judon as he looks for that one final big payday in the NFL can Anthony Jennings be the edge setting run stopper that he was last season in the post bellich era now under drod mayo and Demarcus Covington what does sonone Taki talki make of his opportunity taking over for Mack Wilson and will he shove it up Andy you know what because Andy said he could shove or we could all respectively shove our pass coverage numbers and what about Marte mapu where does he play does Josh uch have a career year setting himself up nicely for uh free agency next year as well see lots of questions here in the evolving TBD lb room for your New England Patriots what do you think Pat’s fans are you bullish on the Patriots linebacking Corp do you think it’s a work in progress are you down on it is this something they should have addressed further holler at you guys fit har I’m at fit gfy he’s at jumbo heart and this has been the latest at six rings pod thank you guys for listening I hope you guys enjoyed our Rushmore discussion the latest chalk full of Pats perie and of course our offseason positional Patriots preview we’ll be back tomorrow on Wednesday with a wh if Wednesday live across all of our respective and the Wei socials Andy’s off next week I’ll have a bunch of Pats pods for you so don’t you worry we will keep your football listening tuned in and ready to rock for Fitzy for turp and everyone else involved in helping put this together rather I should say for heart I am still Fitzy I think it’s been an hour it’s a lot of talking it’s a lot of moving pieces we’re good now all right this has been six rings have a great day everybody we’ll talk to you tomorrow good day God bless and as always Andy can go f himself and you guys goats