The Inside Tack Podcast | Ep 11 Fuelling Human Batteries

In this episode of “Inside Tack,” we hear from two pivotal members of the team responsible for the nutrition and performance of the human batteries, the ‘Cyclors,’ driving the cutting-edge racing yacht ‘Britannia.’

Pete Cunningham, Head of Human Performance, with a resume including six Olympics and two America’s Cup campaigns, provides insight into the rigorous high-performance demands placed on the Cyclors. Nick Holt, the Team Head Chef, highlights the crucial role nutrition plays in meeting these demands for athletes, alongside feeding the hundred-plus wider team who are working 24/7 to make every day on the water count.

Listen in as they discuss the critical role of nutrition and human performance science in the America’s Cup.

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[Applause] [Music] [Applause] your comen to me you like oh nice work young car you’re you’re pretty fit for a fat lb and I was like the training was really nice and easy it was all pretty organized and then we started sailing he had three salads three salads no wonder he did 1,500 WTS yeah he was cracking out wasn’t he so are you like tracking my appetite and food intake always oh Christ my yeah hide that bread hello everyone and welcome back to the inside Tac podcast you join us in Barcelona as well I always say this but we are busy but we are we are turbo busy right now we’ve just done I think five or six days straight we’ve had a little break to come up for air on a Sunday we’ve now got bad weather so we’re assure today and then we’re about to roll into a massive week of sailing and testing and getting uh brann faster again so the two guests that we have with us today have got their work cut out because they are shefik the guy who fuels us and keeps us ripping all day and we got head of human performance who’s the guy who makes sure we get onto the boat ready to go full of energy and as fit as possible Pete Cunningham chaps welcome to the inside Tac it’s good to you here thank you yeah good to have you T so basically the way I see it is Pete rips the calories out of me every day and then Chef Nick you try and put them back in a healthy nutritious Manner and every time I walk past your kitchen and re reach for the chalky biscuits you give me a little whack on the knuckles whack on the knuckles and the healthy bit is the uh that’s the the key word I think there Freds trying and keep you healthy and not yeah stay off the chocolate bars man thanks but you definitely have easier people to manage and some people that are less easier to manage and I know where I sit within that yeah no I I think you’re right I think there’s there’s definitely people who are easier to to manage with with their diets and stuff and but I think generally the sailing team are pretty good actually they sort of know I think and yeah I think you are right like just through basic knowledge you know that the quality of the food you put in and I think I think you guys know that you’re you know you’re not like you said a minute ago before we started this you know you’re you’re now professional athletes not just Sailors anymore yeah absolutely so you have to watch what you eat and stuff and that sort of helps me out a little bit what you can’t see Nick doesn’t upset you that’s that’s half battle you know we go and watch the football last night together and and him and Cornish are eating Haribo and I’m just like Jesus Christ what am I doing here I do I do feel a little bit awkward when we watch England play together and I’m on the Pringles and AR having had him like oh but that’s story forever time sit there and blinkers yeah fair enough boy I’m sorry about that Harry Bo will come down once the Euros have finished I promise and is that it yeah exactly and then that won’t be long then almost last night hey and then Pete you I mean you and I head of human performance you and I go back a long way you first did a fitness test on me when I was in the uh the British youth Squad in 1998 so let’s just let’s just wind way back I think you joined British sailing in 93 93 yeah so let’s go 93 through 2004 in under two minutes this is challenge this isn’t doing me very many favors making me look quite old experienced experien started in 93 uh straight after Barcelona ready after the Barcelona Olympics yeah uh did five uh yeah five almost five almost finished the fifth Olympic cycle in 2012 uh running the sport Science team at the Rya uh moved on did a couple cups of arimus starting just 2011 a couple cups there and then sort of ended up here really and a Volvo in the middle of that couple did a couple Volos with the Walkers Abu Dhabi team yeah and uh couple years in Singapore with Singapore sailing and then uh then sort of ended up here with inos which is great great to be back at the the cussing Edge really yeah mate I thought I thought we were in for like a 10 minute life story there you literally I said it’d be boring that’s an impressive see me I think it’s pretty good that’s not bad it I mean you you arguably were at the Forefront of maybe even before Sports Science so you kind of look at that arson venger coming into Arsenal revolutionizing the way the Premier League played football with nutrition and all of that you you were hitting Sports Science mid90s as that as that bubble was beginning to expand yeah I think that early 90s period is when when Sports Science I know when I did my degree there was only six places in the UK you could do a sports science degree wow and uh you know now every everybody you can do it everywhere it’s one of those degrees they probably want to stop yeah but the uh but it’s changed and I’ve sort of uh I think I landed on a career just at the right time as it was sort of taking off yeah and uh you know it’s you know we’re pretty pretty uh pretty serious here now it’s pretty uh uh intense is probably the right word pretty pretty scientific we we we do a lot it’s not just the training side it’s uh you know obviously with Nick as well it’s a lot you know the training side is quite simple I was saying it’s the it’s making sure they’re ready to train and the recovery side that’s probably the skillful part yes and that’s probably where we spend most of our energies and how you how you measure that recovery how you measure that Readiness you know it’s it’s that there’s the scientific aspect to that as well yeah there is yeah so you know we you know we do you know what we do Fred you know we work you particularly some of the work we’re doing now the blood monitoring stuff we Oro on the as one of our partners on the uh you know the oxidative stress their blood biomarker company you blood bioanalytical type company uh that got fantastic platform all our data goes on there and it certainly gives us a a pretty good idea whether we’re we’re pushing too hard and where we’re recovering so just just to give our listeners an insight into that it’s a little finger prick once or twice a week and you measure our stress levels how our body are coping with not only the training but the sailing it kind of checks in with where we are with our nutrition as well it’s a pretty good overall marker yeah so we look at antioxidant capacity as part of it which was really closely related yeah I mean c we got any low antioxidant capacities I’d be amazed because uh the nutrition here is quite amazing really that’s you talk about the multicolored sort of food that you uh not multicolored harrybo though no they’re not on the list mate our food our food’s pretty amazing ready you the breakfast is uh you know is is in in in that respect is is is first class yeah really lucky to have have it and now and Nick we we’ll Nick we’ll sort of move on to to your journey sort of you were with us in ockland for the last America’s Cup but obviously got a history as a pretty incredible Chef you you kind of used to be a pub landlord then you kind of moved into sort of VIP hosting quality of food went through the roof but you didn’t have to care about calories or nutritional content and then in the last America’s Cup you joined us and you snapped into this athlete world yeah it was a bit strange really because going from ordering gallons and gallons of cream and kilos of butter to do big VIP events around the world you know doing like pizza working on Volvos and stuff like that and Grand pris and things and big car launches and stuff you know you’re you’re not there to make people fit and healthy and make them want to make them feel good with with you know the calories so yeah so once I sort of picked up the bat here it was a bit a bit of an eye opener really for me because I’d never done anything on that side of it before so coming into it was was quite interesting yeah yeah and you are you not only cater for our sort of 16 Sailors that which we feel really lucky that we have a slightly tweaked menu yeah to everyone else but there’s there’s often up to 140 people on site that you’re you and your amazing team shout out to your your crew the crew are amazing the crew are amazing you you’ve got your you got your sport Science head on you’re refueling your fueling head on everything that goes out on the water to keep us ticking along stuff with Pete but then you’re also a catering for everyone else I think it’s this week we’re up to about 115 120 this week so you know with the guys that come over from the UK and stuff and so we we are we’re breakfast lunch dinner for the people that want dinner you know and stuff so yeah we said we do a breakfast open up with a breakfast for the shore team and the support team and then then we do you guys a breakfast which is obviously slightly different to get you where you need to be and then we move into on the water lunches if we’re sailing which is sort of anything from 35 to 40 people on the water yeah then we’re into sh lunch which is you know the rest of the rest of the people that are here so another 70 people probably then sailor recovery food sailor recovery food the shore team have a little snack that we do them in the afternoon and then there’s and then and then dinners so that’s seven Services yeah and then we have a m and then we have a night shift on at the moment as well for about people and then you’re catering for people to have a snack in the middle of the night if they’re boat building so that’s eight yeah it’s it’s pretty pretty intense mate that is absolutely ridiculous and in the background you’re kind of having to order to prep to keep it interesting keep it healthy that’s a battle because obviously the guys are here up to six seven days a week so trying to make sure that people aren’t getting bored and it’s quite difficult to to and we’ve got to be and a budget healthy and the budget the budget yeah go on get just just Chuck out there in the number you’ve told me the number for feeding a person every day for those three it’s rough roughly around Matt Robinson will correct me on this I’m sure uh it’s roughly about 12 EUR a day we get per person so it’s not a huge budget now so we have to be yeah we have to be creative is H is a good description of it I think but it’s it’s you know we we make it work and and I think that’s that’s half the B you know we do a lot of you know making things into from a lunch we’ll turn that into the RP for the next day and things like that to for on the water and you work with Pete getting these kind of philosophies these ideas these morning shakes is a great example of that right yeah morning shakes a great example so we Dev I’ve developed quite we’ve developed quite a few over the years and just sort of making sure that again that they’re different each day and you know you’re getting a different flavor so you’re not getting bored you I don’t want to e that drink that today because it’s the same as we had yesterday or something like that you know and it the morning shakes with protein and yeah we have we have a chat about calories a little bit extra carbs at certain times heavy training loads yeah for the cyes so we we modify it we we look at the amount of food going out and what we think they eat make some sort of calculations your body weight Trends always a good one yeah you know big volume training you tend to see you know dipped in body weight yeah a little bit so uh you know it’s good together I think the guys manage it quite well the sailors and the cyclos themselves to a certain extent where you know if you need need to dip or in weight or whatever or or lose some calories you know you come off the carbs or kind of have more protein yeah they fairly experienced aete something they’re not they’re not novices Straight Out of You Youth Squad I mean that was 25 years ago Fred thanks for reminding everybody I’ve just got to tell the story The we’ve alluded to it you first did a fitness test on me in in 98 when I was in in my laser on my youth match racing days and then I retested with you in 2004 I’d done one America’s Cup I was dabbling with Andy beadsworth in the star and I did a honking uh 4minute maximal row test in chit the uni where where you still lecture to this day with a Douglas bag on and anyone who’s done a Max test knows the drill anyway I did I did all right actually it’s probably why I’m still here today I’m chipping away and uh your your comment to me you’re like oh nice work young car you’re you’re pretty fit for a fat lad and I was like I’ve been living by that to this day to this I was harsh in my youth you were yeah but do you know what are you blocked out the negative which was the chubby and I was like all I heard was you’re pretty fair oh you got good jeans Fred you know we we talking earlier you’ve run marathons in three and a half hours Pace I mean not many people can do that for big guy for a big big guy running it’s uh it’s not bad at all bloody stubborn impressive I mean numbers now must be as good as they’ve ever been you know they are pet and like I’m super happy I’m 42 but and fact that let’s let’s move on to that you’ve got such a wide range of athletes I mean you’ve got you got at 42 holding on for dear life but contributing to the boat and trying to get the drivetrain going and then you’ve got these rowers that you’ve inherited that are super fit you’re trying to adapt to cyclists what amaz amazing difference with you know different people got here I mean I’ve been doing for a long time as we as we mentioned uh I mean some of the guys some of the rowing guys what one gu I won’t name him because uh he’ll get get you know you know what he’s like but he’s probably the best athlete I’ve ever worked with you look at some of his data just for phal and uh you know I know he’s he’s he’s not young he’s in his 30s uh you know we got him from British rowing uh and you know he’s now contemplating whether he becomes a cyclist after this he’s seriously seriously thinking about doing some competitive cycling uh and you know it’s it’s phenomenal and you know even even you know the the more traditional ex grinder turn cycl you know that you know the you know what they’ve done you they’ve gone from you know upper body athletes where you know it’s you’ve all lost a bit of size on the upper body oh my God uh and uh you know turn yourselves into cyclist is is pretty amazing because you know you can put all this oxygen around your system it’s the muscles that use it so you got to be able to you know train those specific muscles to you know to use the oxygen that’s being pumped around and uh we’re out doubt we’ve we’ve done a pretty re pretty reasonable job at it so far yeah it’s it’s phenomenal we we had our baselines for the numbers that we wanted to get from our sailing Cy Claws and then from our non-sailing Cy Claws and we’ just in the last 6 months we’ve just blown those out out the window but we’re now in the world where we’ve only done 30 days of sailing on rb3 or britania as she’s now been christened and transferring that Fitness onto the boat is your next is your next challenge we got to we got to talk about the heat in Barcelona it’s such a topic and Nick I know you’re involved with like Cooling and keeping us chilled out and all that on the water let’s call it race day nutrition and race day care for the cyclos that’s a massive Hot Topic right now isn’t it yeah the the whole sailing thing the training was really nice and easy it was all pretty organized and then we started sailing and then suddenly things get a little bit harder you know you got a lot of you know you can’t just go on Powers on the water because it’s so you everybody’s I’m sure everybody’s the same it’s it’s it’s an intermittent event you know yeah the powers are up powers are down yeah you know you can look at normalized Power but the actual you know it’s so different to cycling in the in in the gym yeah or on the road and you know we obviously got you mentioned it quickly there Fred you know the heat they it’s it’s not overly hot here yet uh you we all know how hot it can get and we’re already you know we look a lot at core temperature go give some numbers away because like we said we’re not hiding anything here we’re we’re we’re certainly in the 40s you know 40.3 40.4 and you get on the boat 37 like normal we sort of you know I mean as long as you’re in the air uh you like on the rib and stuff it’s actually quite cold you a bit of spray bit of bit of Breeze as soon as you get in your cycling pod uh but obviously there there’s not much Breeze deliberately so you know there’s no you know there’s no calling by evaporation The Sweat Just tends to drip off you yeah you need a bit bit Breeze uh so you know it’s it’s a concern and we know how much power numbers can go down yeah you know it’s a you it’s a pretty pretty straight equation I would argue it’s probably in 2024 it’s probably the most unique sporting environment that you can operate in is out on one of these America’s cut boats pretty unpleasant isn’t it at least we’re not sitting down backwards doing it so like some teams but we yeah we have a chat a little bit about about powers and what we think other teams are doing uh you know I don’t know I find you know recumbent cycling would be pretty difficult I just imagine and uh you must end up sitting in a big pool of sweat yeah I mean we’re obviously talking about American magic and we ran a whole loop on recumbent cycling look sort of did loads of studies read all the data and I you know what I thought I thought someone would go recumbent when we say recumbent we obviously mean sitting down and kind of those sit down bikes that you’ve seen in the gym sofa cycling sofa cycling and and they’re facing off and do you know what I do my capat to for it’s a real it’s a real big move and you speak to like the PO good who we both know well they’re super happy with their decision so more more power to them I think that’s yeah that’s quite nice thing with the cup everybody you know I mean it’s still any the second version of this rule abut everybody sort of uh tries find their own little niche uh you we’ve certainly been trying to find it uh but you know we we meant the temp the temperatures are worry and we’ve done a lot of work we do a lot of you know pre- calling we’ve done a lot of climatization work over the winter which thank God’s finished no nobody enjoyed that you Happ to talk about that yeah this is it’s too late not to talk about it but it’s it’s done and dusted but we we did a lot of uh you know in sweatsuits pretty unpleasant VI we push it quite hard you know we we normally was a set Power just let the you know thermal drift you know the decoupling just get you up to 80 85% of Max heart rate stop the session don’t mate as you overcook yeah and we did quite a bit of it and I think it’s play PID dividends you know no no real data to say it it hasn’t no and no real data say it has but I think we uh you know I think we call pretty well I think we we manage to manage our temperatures quite well out there know I know the medic’s always very concerned about overheating and what the possible effects are and this sort of stuff but you know I think we we’re we’re managing okay but everyone keeps saying oh it’s going to get hoser you know it’s so it is a worry good luck with that for but everybody’s in the same boat I think we’re we’re as such I think we’re we’re we’re doing okay yeah and Nick when when you inherit this group of slightly hot yeah slightly tired Sailors back ashore and it’s like right okay these guys have emptied themselves for a 4our sailing session let’s just talk about training specifically right now we we’re in your hands for for refueling what does that look like so when you come back off we tend to give you a load of protein don’t we and some and some carbs really get get your your levels back up on that front and then obviously they have shakes and stuff don’t they protein shakes sort of start almost as soon as we soon as we can get our hands on them exactly yeah and then and then ice slushy drinks and stuff when they come off the water which you look after don’t you but yeah and before we do a little bit pre- calling it means quite well you know it’s in the in the research quite a lot pre- calling the effects of pre- calling we we’re quite into that but and we and we do a lot we try to call people down we uh you know post post big days you we we do ice baths we we do we don’t do it that often we will do when we’re racing I think we do more but we we certainly try to get the nutrition in them it’s it’s it’s different isn’t it because you have the cycla that need the protein and the and the the car the carbs into them and then the the after guard yeah who are trying to keep under under got weight targets and we but I think when we’re when we’re sailing we’re we’re sort of probably somewhere around 100 grams of carbs per hour something something like that mostly in gels and you know little little bit in food but mostly in gels and drink uh and and different you know different supplements we send out energy energy bars and homemade snacks homem snack homemade snacks are unreal good it’s unreal mate because I for one I’m not a gel lover to be honest yeah I do like on a race day I love a sis gel it’s called beater Fuel and it’s got n Tropics in it New Tropics in it which is like a proper kick in the guts where you know you’re going to get the best out of me for 20 minutes yeah I must say I struggled to sleep that night after I’ve taken it it’s like a night out in I bether on Red Bull but it’s brilliant but what I actually love is when we’re on a training day doing a couple of rotations and I’m sailing first and third is diving into your little power balls and your energy balls where you’ve taken the time to really make something healthy for us that’s not a generic protein bar it no it really isn’t that’s that’s a lot of work gone into all of those really and a lot of you know a lot of development work where we’ve tried it hasn’t worked or you know making sure you go guys like the taste of it so you will eat it is another big challenge yeah you know we can make something that’s full of energy and and gets you back up to those levels that you want but if if you’re not going to eat it because doesn’t taste right or tastes good then there’s no point in making it yeah so you know there has been a lot of over the well since I joined the team you know the the folder’s gone from this to to this of development work and yeah it’s a big old it’s a big old folder and we’re still doing that we’re still developing you know we did a started doing Ginger and turmeric shots last week and stuff which you know you look at a base recipe and then try and tune that to to what we need illness thing is it is that is that trying to the illnesses away little bit of immunity thing Lewis liked him didn’t he when he Le did like him I think he had three walking around like like an like an aluminous fell he’s been going pretty well since he visited us maybe it that’s good point on your CV yeah maybe may I give Toto a ring he had three salads out he had three salads no wonder he did 1,500 yeah he was cracking out wasn’t he yeah so I should do three salads three salads yeah you come and see me we do you three salads three salads three Ginger and chumy shots mate you’ll be away I think we I think we cracked the code here think we have three we throw we’ll throw the rest of the book in the salad in the in the bin in the salad in the bin Oh my days and Nick like obviously we had a great day with those Formula One guys social media everywhere love a bit of social media myself you can’t avoid experts on social media and Pete this this is with you as well like we are I’m not an expert you’re not an expert social media is not Place social Med at you over there with your gray beards and am I about to have a chat about social media if you said to me please don’t ask me about music either okay you said to me and Pete 10 years ago we’re going to be doing a podcast what’s that I’m surprised you guys aren’t reminiscing about seax or something like that which for the younger listeners is B your holiday B the Oracle we in the old days that’s right I can’t even remember where I was going there we started talking about we’ve gone on the right because there’s there’s experts everywhere like you cannot pick up your phone without a nutritional expert telling you what to do Nick actually I’m GNA blow your trumpet so speak um you you are a nutritional expert for a sports team like is it basic or is it not like I I I don’t think I could describe myself as a nutritional expert you might think I am fredburg probably blagging it a little bit um I don’t know yeah I think it’s just what you know and how to cook and stuff and learning over the years and stuff and certainly since I’ve been working with the team and stuff that the the things you start find out and the learning from people like Pete and stuff and and you know other people I’ve worked with over the years it’s really interesting for me and and it’s it’s an exciting thing to work in you know you can’t you can’t get away from it it’s exciting when the cup comes around and you’re watching it and on the Telly and the canteen with the SHA team and we’re all sitting there on tender hooks you know and that’s a that’s three four years whatever it is we’ve put effort into that watching the boys go you boys go out there and race and try and RN for us you know not just doing it for yourselves you’re doing it for us well I’d say you know probably the two most important things on recovery is sleep and nutrition and uh and you know nutrition SES nutrition SES massive yeah you don’t sleep sleep I remember when I first started I said to to I said look at Fred yeah he sleeps 4 hours a night and Ben said oh yeah that’s pretty normal for Fred and I thought oh my goodness like margar apparently Margaret that Ro used to sleep four hours a night and she ran a country what was she doing rest of the time waiting for the first again there’s a lot of people who won’t who won’t know who that is I’ve been told not to do dad joke oh she’s dead now is she not quite right oh c I don’t know where to go with that we’re talking about the sex life of Margaret P how how many kids have you got Fred already got two oh wow we have an edit right let’s go back to the Nutritional bit so Pete recovery and Readiness how do you how do you measure it on us how do you measure how recovered and ready we are to go and perform the next day yeah I look at you know obviously we get a lot of metrics off training Pak we we use wearables whether it’s an aura ring or you you use whoop yeah love we use some of us use the phex the Gin fex uh so we we get quite a lot from that you know simple things are are quite looking at like resting heart rate they you know tends to increase when you’re something’s not quite right so very simple we look at HRV we look at you know we look at the oxidative stress that you go through which is this finger prick with the uh or Oro guys uh you add it all together yeah we get quite quite a strong algorithm on it then when you put it all together and you I always say you know we got no golden nuggets on the training side you know we we train properly we uh we’re quite scientific about it we we do the right thing even if it’s sometimes for me hard to tell you what the right thing is I always tell you I don’t I don’t sort of Pander away and sort of you know I’m not not a softy softy I’m very much you know this is what we need to be doing but the probably the most important thing is now is is making sure we we stay healthy yeah you know and we you know OB all the teams have had a little bit of Co yeah bit going around and uh you know we we we we measure you know we measure CRP on a you all body inflammatory response on a regular basis and that tends to pick up that sort of stuff but it’s that’s always My worry is we’re we’re we’re we’re probably fit enough to do what we want to do y uh we could always be fitter yeah uh you know they could move the they can move the traveler a bit more they always want more oil you know but we’re we’re we’re fit enough to to race and do pre- starts my my concern is if we get an AM of illness yeah AB uh and you know we got one lad who really hasn’t trained for four weeks just just making a comeback now it’s one out of nine uh which I think we’ve got away with it quite lightly and that’s that’s my my big worry is is the recovery I think that’s again is nutrition again isn’t it and making sure like you say about them sleeping and recovery and stuff but feeding them and stuff nice we based you know we’ got obviously conflict a little bit same as the other teams cell GP is not you know it’s a it’s a great spectacle but it’s uh you know it drags the guys you know three of the guys around the world they’re never they’re never pinging after a sale regardless of result never pinging the week they come you look at their recovery markers you know they fly to New Zealand and they never they never recover before this lgp regata they fly home and then we we just slowly look at the recovery markers over next week yeah even when you see them come back and eat know their appetite isn’t what it was before is that right you notice yeah yeah so are you like tracking my appetite and food intake always Christ M yeah that bre the list is like you get those comic lists but just the paper keeps on rolling is that right yeah it’s massive I am the problem Char we got compare notes a bit more Nick I think I’ve got similar notes oh my goodness you’re a diesel engine Fred you go you know 400 watts for as long as you can and you go for a long time yeah oh that’s very kind of you mate I really bloody try I really try um going Pete what’s the biggest thing you’ve changed so we’ve already said you’ve you’ve been in sport Science since the mid 90s here we are 30 years later my goodness is it the kind of athlete training yes there’s been tweaks in training Styles but kind of how you split up your aerobic versus your anerobic and ways of measuring that power is is the biggest leap you’ve seen in the last let’s decade is it the measurables is it the recovery is it the nutrition because you you hear T Pat’s coach one of the he’s redefining cycling right now and they put a lot of that on his nutrition yeah they they got some amazing freaks in in the psyching world you know I mean they’re phenomenal what they do you know we we got really high absolute Powers but you know we don’t have massive power to weights I think uh I think you know my my ration now is I’m very much into zone two yeah you know long and steady yeah long and steady setting a really good base and that takes time and I I you I think even the the guys from rowing who’ve come in you know they’ve uh they I’d say they’ve gained a lot by doing uh they do a lot in rowing I don’t know whe they call ut1 or ut2 I get the two mod ut1 uh and uh you know I think we’ve gained a lot by doing that this winter I mean we we had pretty good numbers end of the grenadiers camp you know in inor that’s right in December we we had some pretty good numbers then and that was even before we we started getting into you know race paace stuff and you lactate lactate threshold type stuff and I I think uh my ration now is I think a lot of a lot of people underestimate the importance of that zone too yeah you know the 8020 you know the polariz sort of program yeah uh we’re quite into it uh I mean and and cycling’s quite nice because every day’s every day whether power meters every day is a fitness test you know you get a lot of data you mean by that then yeah we we get your power we get your heart rate we look at Drift We you know it’s uh it’s it’s we take a lot of lactates as you know your is take a hammering uh so we we we get a lot of data and almost from every ride if we wanted to uh so you know we we were talking a little bit this morning about are we going to do Fitness tests before the cup and I always said my one regret at arus is we didn’t fitness test when I thought the guys in Bermuda AR were really flying and we went into that cup in great great shape and uh always regret we didn’t do fitness test on everybody you know I gave it to and you know I don’t know I’d love to do a fitness test I don’t know where I’m going to with you guys I don’t know but the uh you know almost don’t have to because every time you do a session on a on a bike on a w bike on a on a tax on your road bike we we get so much data it’s almost like a fitness test you know so you look at heart rate you look at drift you look at know power output you look at the intervals and you didn’t have that back then no we with arm grind you didn’t really have it you know we we all had you know we had one sign really good arm grinder arus you know an SRM based arm grinder all the rest was a you they were good arm Grinders but you I don’t know how accurate the powers were but we uh know it’s uh it’s nice working in cycling and I know when we we transferred from arm grinding to cycling I’d prefer it to go back to arm grinding because I think I had a pretty good Niche with the arm grinding sort of culture and and the and the volumes the upper body the shoulders can maintain when cycling i’ say cycling’s been wouldn’t say it’s been easy I think the training side’s been pretty straightforward there’s a lot of data there already right yeah and and you even predecessor you know Ben did a pretty good job he he SEL some good athletes uh and I sort of got in I was always sort of you know when when G text me and sort of said Ben he text me and said oh would you be interested in coming working for us I had no idea what Ben Williams was up to at the time and it was always one of those sort of things I thought Cy it’s uh quite a hard project to step into because you’d already you know from the outside looked to you in in Oakland you did a great uh you know great cup there physiology wise yeah we’re in good and always sort of dreaded it almost sort of stepping in it’s it’s easy if you go and step in somewhere where you think it’s a shambles yeah you know like you if you’re a coach and you go and step into Manchester United you probably do quite a good job for example but I was always well that’s what Jim and the nework boys are do now they’re turning it around stepping here and I always it was always in back of my mind when I was having initial chats with Ben thinking K got pretty big shoes to fill here and uh I don’t know we I think we’ve done right in in the last year I’ve only been here a year and I think we’re we we’ve gone the right way absolutely absolutely I mean and the the biggest thing now our biggest challenge call it challenge yeah it is a challenge for everyone is taking air all the fitness that we’ve got through nutrition being looked after so well the recovery the good training programs and chucking it on that boat and making sure that we are crushing that and that that for me being kind of a a bit of a veteran guy in the sailing team that that’s where I feel I’m coming in now I can kind of link from what we’re doing with you guys to chucking it on the boat to talking to the after guard to trying to piece the whole the whole thing together that’s my story and I’m sticking to it yeah it’s an interesting project I’d love to talk to after the cup talk to other people in in my position in other teams and sort of because but you never do you know when football you know you can see what what goes on and how much you but it’s a secret world isn’t it I same for me you sort of look around and think I wonder what they’re doing in each team feeding them do you see yourself now Nick as a sports nutritionist are you now obviously we’re going to keep rumbling here and it’s going to be great but would you now go and reach out to other sports teams reach out to like you’ve got so much a good knowledge base hav you now amazing do you know what Fred i’ never really thought about it to be honest you’re sort of head down at the minute isn’t it and as everyone is and it’s difficult to know and now You’ said it to me yeah maybe I don’t know I don’t you’re not your typical Pub landlord anymore no that’s gone people would order a p some nuts you go are you sure you want those nuts I wouldn’t have any business You’ be your grumpy at the best of times oh thanks mate do you think so yeah um if you were like telling people off for having some yeah you can’t have a pint of beer with that no no I don’t know I just I not your typical good quote that um I I who knows know who knows I I’d like to think so I’d like to think I’ve got a good knowledge base and stuff now and and after how many years has it been nearly five years oh yeah I’d say more more maybe you’re very self-deprecating buddy I well thank you yeah maybe but I don’t know I think I know what I’m doing from a chef’s point of view and I sort of know now where to go with nutrition I think with with the backup of you know Pete and hoppo and obviously um Ben Williams before and Pinky before that and it’s been great working with those guys and sort of getting an understanding of it and I think now yeah maybe there is something to do after this or you know or go again I don’t know who knows I think you’d be an asset in any sports team Nick yeah without doubt he isn’t he he’s not normally this kind have extra salad tomorrow oh yeah you can have as much salad as you like what are you UGL for no but but it’s it’s true you know you don’t come across quality people all the time it’s true I think it’s it’s you know the world we work in and the people we work with isn’t it so I think it’s all bouncing off each other cool do you know what let’s put a pin in this lovein be honest it’s quite like us quite like me hey P you’re doing a great job too I don’t feel like you yeah you’re not getting no credit me right stop let’s park the series stuff yeah nice we’re going to do some quick far questions oh my goodness yeah I know I know uh P try and be PC okay um this is where cam is going to be editing I feel like this segment could be 30 seconds long but hey we’re celebrating the characters in the team um Nick you are a sailor we’ve not mentioned that yet yeah I am a shout out to your Sailing Club please oh yeah big up the a scop a fc SCC not a football club fo Club Dan we we’re River base so we can we can sail to the pub oh really yeah it’s great what’ you sell I got a laser where is the laser currently I know the answer this question it’s on my mate’s Farm how when was the last time you sailed said laser uh a year and a half ago probably now oh that’s not too bad yeah I’ve seen pictures of you sailing lasers you always look very angry when you’re sailing are you a cross Sailer yeah you seem like a shouter to me I am a shouter are you yeah you’d ask anyone down there I like I like a screen run win with Mark have you got enough knowledge of the rules that you are shouting the rules legitimately or you making them up in your head a bit of both probably there young if there’s young kids in the way I’d sh anything are you still calling like Master beam that from the90s no I’m not I’m not on your uh your Master and Commander stuff yet my next question is is your and I haven’t got a problem with this because I I celebrate sort of color um is your is your laser like a green or a red or is it a white it’s a white laser it’s a reasonably new one so haven’t got a multicolored sale no mate okay I’m just I’m just setting my own expectations I know I’m old but I’m not that old okay all right do you wear hiking shorts no you should get hiking shorts buddy no you can’t go around shouting at people if you’re not wearing hiking shorts not like not like you know on a regular base I mean if it’s burn it off a might have yeah which means windy yeah oh yeah okay sorry windy yeah okay yeah but you know on a river you’ve got to be you’ve got to be pretty agile because you’re running out you’re running out water pretty quick well that’s unfortunately I do not put you into the agile bracket no that’s a very good point yeah the knees aren’t as good as they used to be so Nick to to to ask the first quickfire question as we’re proven it’s not quickfire you’re going to sell you can sail anywhere in the world where you sailing is it is it on the Aven do you know what I miss it so it probably is with my mat yeah you’re dusting off dusting off the laser DUS off the laser or the 200 the RS 200 who Cru for in the 200 no just anyone I can get me hands on down there really so Nick as you as you said you’re a laser sailor yeah you’re a bit of a shouter you don’t wear hiking shorts and you’ve got to be agile which you’re not yeah Pete you’re you’re a you’re a tidy win or were a tidy wi us wind Sur speed wind speed wind suring day down in the weterings and haling Island and yeah West Kirby you Sam Marie the canal in France went to there a few times did you actually do proper speeduns yeah so what’s top speed uh 40 odd knots low 40s 500 meters no you kept that quiet you kept that very quiet few people know but not many I keep it Qui I don’t go last time I wi St was properly was Bermuda right so Bermuda was nice and we’re obviously talking traditional win you’re not a foiling winter never never done any foiling stuff didn’t don’t think it’ll ever take off and that’s in the famous that’s in that famous trench over FR in sarie yeah M I never knew old days I mean I got old school stuff I remember day ending did nothing rip the rip it RI me apart my kit are we talking like 80s day stuff no it’s not quite that bad but it’s quite nice old old starboard stuff you know starbo that sort of stuff nice kit but pretty dated remember Dave taking the mick out of me and uh think I went out did one or two runs come back in packed all the way and that was it just demoralized blown everyone off the water coming oh really one of those yeah was nice yes Pete was a few years ago when was the last time wi Bermuda you going to get the kids into got a starboard go for Harry just got trying to get a decent kids rig for him so but he tried sailing he didn’t like it he went out you know chist Harbor it was 20 odd knots uh first something like a Wayfare tide against wind against tide and it was pretty rough and uh I think he spent most of the time in the in the safety boat said he loved the safety boat yeah okay so he’s going to be into ribs not into saving boat yeah so I’m trying to get him wind steing oh good man and and uh and for you where are you sailing I mean you you have been associated with teams all around the world really with Olympics where’s your here’s a question your favorite Olympic cycle and why probably the Sydney cycle uh you know place like Melbourne there was that the the ISA the team the World Championships running into uh into Sydney must been 99 uh I thought Melbourne was stunning never been back since right uh we were there for a month for the uh the ISA worlds and that that was that was you know Melbourne Harbor is a stunning place to go sailing and the Sydney cycle from a British point of view was Unreal yeah I was just as I sort finishing my PhD my PhD was on single-handed sailing and I can remember you know we had Shirley he won the Europe we had Ben won the the laser and the gold and Pur won the Finn alling three single handed we got in Walker maravel silver and the star they got silver and the star obviously they joined up you know their story how they both got together sing together in the star was pretty pretty unique yes absolutely true tragedy really it was yeah pretty pretty nice end to a a sad story yes uh who else got 49ers oh yeah Billy Billy and and hiss got silver there I feel like we’re missing someone else which would be three Golds two Silvers yeah I think so Nick Nick Rogers I think came fourth in the four7 I think Nick and Joe so old days so but that that was probably the you know it was the first time Brit sailing had done really well well on the world stage and sailing do you know there’s a very pretty pretty phenomenal there’s very few times I’ve seen my Dad cried um and the night that all those medals came in he was heavily involved in British saving at that time he cried for hours wow it was pretty special I think it reset where British sailing we’ had such a bad Atlanta 96 with two Silvers uh with Johnny and Ian and Ben getting his silver in the laser to then make that colossal leap forwards in four years phenomenal wasn’t it we’re probably all here roughly on the back of that Olympics You could argue it’s when money proper money got invested in the Aya in the you know through UK sport the loty funding was online that’s right and it it transformed Brit Cy went through the same sort of uh passage you look back right well we’re going to kind of carry on with this theme We’re All Sports Nuts across all sports Nick you can go back in history and watch any sporting moment what you’re watching it won’t be Spurs winning a trophy well it might be because we’re not going to see well maybe you should go and watch Tottenham win the trophy back in the day cuz they’re not going to win one in the next few years 60 is double that be nice wouldn’t that um oh God that’s a good question that Fred I I well you know we’re playing in the Euros at the moment AR we I do like my football but well that or 66 World Cup or maybe the watch the Bodyline Series in the in the cricket a series something like that maybe yeah that’d be a good one I’m a big Cricket fan through my granddad and stuff so yeah nice and Pete you’re a massive Cricket man yeah mine would be Cricket I mean re of recent years it’d probably be the uh the 50 overw Cup in 2018 you went to the the super over against New Zealand we shouldn’t have won it but we did I Wasing I was working there were you yeah that Lords at Lords yeah oh you really was that off the could you enjoy it or were you working we were well we sort of got out and sort of down the nursery and got got are you kidding me you snuck out of work to watch the Super over yeah well we were watching it on the screen okay we couldn’t get anywhere time that must been yeah the atmosphere was a real atmosphere how that was when Ben Stokes died to get back in his creas went for yeah all of that Shenanigans yeah it was amazing oh yeah young son watched it recently on on YouTube or something yeah it was mesmorized by it he knows all about it if you ask him is is is phenomenal yeah so that’s modern modern sort of stuff old old stuff would probably be in probably probably Cricket uh yeah be be the Aussies test Series in anything where we beat the Aussies yeah be in the 70s when Allan KN was playing that sort of area you know it’s I always quite like the Wicket Keepers always doit bit Wicket keeping I would wind back I’m a cricket night as well I’d go back 05 ashes and watch that Flint off over the perfect over yeah out swinger out swinger out swinger in swinger get out absolutely love that right Pete back back to you training programs who’s like the least compliant who’s who’s your problem child or are we all Claus yeah why not can’t say the gov can I probably can’t the’s triple busy he’s pretty good but to be fair gov is in at 6 I was in early this morning and I I he just made me a cup of tea pop down Ben was ready on the cross train in the corner pushed his cross train the corner I feel a bit sorry for yeah he looks a bit sad in that corner he’s tucked away isn’t yeah I never know he’s in there so come in with a gag or something non funny and go keep tabs on corn dog yeah he uh he’s easily LED astray but what we say about cor Ben Cornish Rings true Cornish W wins at life he can still go out and enjoy a glass of wine he can still enjoy round of golf and he’s ridiculously fit and powerful he’s good good with dust isn’t he but that that catch you up as he get older he’s still got youth on his side that fall that will fall down very soon yeah yeah I think compliancy is pretty good you know don’t really have any any problem children at training really I got two problem children at home not here yeah fair enough uh nicoo you are preparing a wine and dine evening um for anyone in history it’s a bit of a rattled old question got three people around for dinner who are they enjoying some of your that’s that’s another good one isn’t it Fred’s um Margaret Hatcher she I think she’s busier for dinner is she oh my goodness uh do you know what I to thought who would I like to have dinner with I think you this has come is it quick fire right sorry I’m just thinking ismar Kingdom Brunell is going to be there cuz I just think he’s amazing the engineer guy the engineer guy that’s deep I know it’s deep is it but just you know you go and see what he’s done over the years and quite impressed by some of his stuff only a man of a certain generation would say that I respect yeah well thanks mate uh and then probably a couple of sporty people on go on who am I going to have Glenn hero Glenn H Glenn H Graeme hick as a Worcester a Worcester born and bred cricketer you know yeah he’s was a hero of mine when I was growing up and I love that and uh you know South African wasn’t he Zimbabwe and Z yeah but when you know go watching W ball around new road at wer and it’s uh something to behold yeah yeah so yeah I’d have him around for dinner yeah that’s a pretty unique quite mix up it is yeah that is I don’t have the conversation with well badly if you’re involved um right campaign update Pete we’ll go to you specifically here we are we are looking down the barrel we’re kind of beginning of July now and racing is really close um what does it look like for training for you are you shifting us more into a race mode tapings all that world where are we yeah we had a quick chat this morning about uh tapering didn’t we we six six seven weeks too we we’re probably just going to start thinking about tapering putting some really the icing on the cake really you know the work has been done it’s just a little bit at the end now really and then the taper in uh it’s it’s a long period you know we we start racing the 29th of August uh hopefully we’re still racing towards the end of October that’ be nice so uh so you know it’s a long long period so but we uh everything aimed for the end of August at the moment for us and is is it a hard balance for you for the amount of effort we put in on the water versus how much you try and get us to do in the gym and finding that balance between quality training in the gym and also relevant training on the water the on water stuff’s interesting the the the efficiencies of the systems all all all this sort of stuff comes into play uh the trying to find the balances you know we’ve we’ve certainly dropped the gym training a little bit you know as now we’re sailing you know you do you know four four or five hours on the water you know you probably do a two-hour shift it’s it’s pretty intense we’re trying to monitor that you we we don’t have an electronic you we don’t heard some the other teams have like an ebike we we don’t at the moment we so we uh we’re proper training uh was a bit of a concern but we we we’re learning a lot though learning a lot we’re holding it well we’re we’re certainly not fatigued we’re not walking around dragging our shoes We’re we’re doing okay but you know we it’s peaking now peaking and and tapering yeah right okay Lads as you know final bit of the the uh pod is around uh grit riger and humor and inos Mantra now we’re all slightly long in the tooth as as three we’ve obviously very nostalgic and experienced in our in our in our field I want you two to give me a life lesson be it from Salem be it from sport be it from anything that kind of fits in around the grit riger humor theme that resonates with you that you have learned from and you try and bring to this high stress kind of high performance sporting team on a on a daily basis who’s going first well Nick the fact that it took you half an hour to do the quick fire question you you go over there have a little thing you make a few notes next sleep as well can see the cogs we my my grit one is is a lesson in life it it changed my career so when I left school I didn’t want to go to university I just wanted to go and earn some money so become a navigator in the Merchant Navy work for Shell no I did yeah I did that for six or seven years and then I got shot in in Puerto Rico hang on a minute got mug got mugged and shot in the middle of the day hang on a minute you’ve been shot you not know that got few that I got mugged uh what was it must have been 20 22 23 right me through it uh so we’re in a oil tank a Shell Shell oil tank in the the back of the harbor in Sean in Puerto Rico and I knew it was a pretty rough place I got to the supermarket and there was a armed guard in a crow’s nest outside the supermarket in K we’re not in a we’re not in a good part of town here and on the way back I obviously bought some bits in the supermarket mostly chocolate I used like chocolate in those days this before I did my sign and I got got mugged on the way back by some local Lads you know probably you know kids sort 15 16 and my my lesson on it was don’t don’t mess with the local so ring yeah I should have just given the stuff over oh did you fight back oh we had a little with ARG bargy and then he pulled a gun out of his big Bermuda shorts he pulled a gun out I thought is it a real gun I never seen a gun it was real gun yeah where whereabouts on your Anatomy did in the in the old love handles went in went in one side out the other side so uh in the love handles in the love handles have you still got a SC I don’t want to see it but is there can you this isn’t the place with that friend but can you I mean can you show young Harry your probably could Harry dad’s been shot yeah so it changed my career so after that I didn’t really want to do I didn’t want to B ATC anymore yeah I was doing all right I was Second Officer at the time uh on all tankers and and stuff and then so after that I did I think I did one more trip and then uh you I went home after that after got shop got paid off went back to the UK had bit time off milked it a little bit Le my doctor had never seen anyone being shot so I Sor I still don’t feel very well kept signing me off and then I did I did one more trip and then I went to University and started Sport Science that’s how I got into Sport Science right so it’s kind of like change of a career a massive sliding doors moment that the of Don’t Mess with the locals don’t mess with the locals I was trying to pick the lesson out of that wow yeah don’t mess with the locals wow wait Nick have you ever been shot uh no and I don’t think I could follow that no you I you can uh mine’s probably more grit I think really you know we’ve we I’ve done some some long shifts in in in the catering trade like and here man and here yeah we’ve we’ve we went to do the the rider Cup in Scotland and pulled like for two and a half weeks me and this other lad shout out to Timmy and uh we pulled some some long days you know three hour sleep getting back up getting up and doing the shift again then we flew to glasgo after it we got on the plane the next morning and flew to Al County to do the Volvo and pulled like three 18 hour 20 hour days between like a brigade of about six or seven of us and it was yeah you could see there’s a picture of us somewhere I think we’ve all got a copy of it somewhere stood around with a beer in our hands at the end of it and we look we look dead yeah we look dead but as a team spirit as a Lads getting through it yeah you know we pulled together and yeah it was massive massive I think we worked out me and Tim worked out our daily rate over those like four weeks oh don’t do that 256 or something stupid it was ridiculous hourly rate hourly rate 256 or something but if you’re in it at the time it’s it’s a lot like when you go through ups and downs in this environment when you’re in it with the right people yeah and you’re all trying to achieve the same thing yeah and you’re all playing together it’s kind of fine and it’s almost a little bit funny you look at it now and we have a right laugh about it we catch up with each other every now and then and we we we still talk about it but it was yeah it was hard work and you you look at it and you think what were we doing why were we doing it but he just had to we had no choice because it wasn’t going to get done otherwise yeah yeah and then we’re going to look you know none of us like you say you know just crack on don’t you get your area make sure it’s bloody and make sure we get out and we did a as a whole team a massive great job on the rider cup and and the start of the Volvo the Volvo is always notoriously alakan stop over the ocean race you the ocean race was an I think they get something like 25,000 people a day through the gate at alakan Oh my days it’s ridiculous I tell you what ridiculous we’re going to see we’re going to see numbers that dwar that down here yeah I think you’re right I think we’re going to see numbers that D that down people coming isn’t there oh my goodness there’s a lot of people coming not just locals but fans as well yeah I I genuinely think this summer is going to redefine what a sailing regetta looks like yeah interesting definitely we shall see hey you probably make your days a bit longer based on that story here I just feel like I’m on half day when they say I’m on day think to myself so actually yeah some of the days I’ve done they probably half half days all seems a little bit easy here Nick if you can work that hard you should do that again a bit younger then bit younger right Legends I think that’s enough lantin swing in there I’d say cam our producer has got his work cut out editing that all together but it like I said chaps it is I often feel uncomfortable I’m a sailor I’m not an athlete um in my head always you two are part of a massive part of the reason why we’ve made this shift into this aerobic sport this explosive power sport from a cyclor and an athlete point of view and we do have to we are athletes we do have to consider ourselves athletes and we’re we’re really well looked after by you guys um and we’re extremely extremely lucky to have you and and your ever growing knowledge base said you’n the calories out of me and Nick you put the calories back in yeah with a wooden I’m probably not the best example sitting here right now I’m not the Calvin Klein model in the team but there’s some bloody impressive boys and yeah that’s thank thanks to you lot so yeah nice work and uh thanks for as always uh get on and like And subscribe the podcast they’re coming at you thick and fast follow us on the socials we’ll have to get Chef Nick on the socials oh yeah doing little bits and bobs with the recipes and let’s get your power balls going on there cuz they’re unreal that’s a proper little did it last cup didn’t we I think a little bit and I I was doing something from home you’re on Instagram Nick oh yeah yeah that you probably on MySpace or something like that no very good we’re going to leave it there I say what else we could be on that’s ni gra Facebook that’s it that’s it Facebook Facebook right we’re going to leave it there and we’ll see you next time on the inside tag oh [Music]