Shane and Marty welcome PING Pro and PGA Tour winner Matthieu Pavon to the podcast. They discuss his reverse handed chipping, playing a 46″ driver, and what it’ll mean to represent France in the Olympics.
the guys from ping they’ve kind of shown me how much the equipment matters I just love that I can hit any shot I kind of want we’re going to be able to tell some fun stories about what goes on here to help golfers play better golf hey everybody Welcome Back To The Proving Grounds podcast I Am Shane bacon joined by Marty Jer and Matthew pavon is with us I know uh the year has been pretty fantastic for you A big 2024 obviously getting the win at Tory Pines but how has the season been for you yeah it’s uh it’s incredible so far um I mean just having the opportunity to play here in America for schedule is it’s pretty amazing and as you said the he couldn’t started the a best way uh so uh so a lot lot a lot of tournaments coming but uh yeah so far it’s just incredible AE age 31 you’ve kind of followed a little different Journey than a lot of players on the tour right kind of you know quote unquote Journeymen on challenge tour DP World Tour not a lot of Americans you know new of you unless they were fallowing you know International play quite a bit how much golf had you played in America leading up to your transition joining the tour here uh in the fall in this this year I mean not much the only thing uh I knew really about America is uh I came when I was 17 After High School I practiced for a year uh in West Palm uh we have a French Pro over there Thomas SL who played R cup and uh one of the biggest name in the French golf so um I spent some time with him in West Palm and I get to know a little bit uh the culture of America how big is sports in America and also how beautiful and great are the facilities to practice to be fair and then more and more growing up uh got few quality to play the US Open uh agreement between uh DP and PGA Tour make me play um two times the Barracuda Championship so yeah little little opportunities uh to play before but not not many I mean you you’ve kind of had your moments State side over the years you mentioned being 17 obviously playing in the US Open and playing well back in 2018 I think you had a top 25 that year are you now adjusting to kind of the American lifestyle what do you like about it and what do you miss about France yeah yeah it’s uh it’s all about learning it’s slightly different uh for sure but I think that country is just such an amazing country uh country for sports and for high performance stuff uh the way the you guys think you guys raise your your kids you are raised to is really different um but uh in what ways like what’s different in terms of like that specifically because I got two little kids so I’m interested in your thoughts it’s just so much positivity really uh it feels like nobody has limits uh you guys believe strong belief dreams big and this is not what we are teach when we we home and we grow up so it’s uh it’s a little bit different and I think it’s just an awesome way to um to leave I mean you obviously become a professional golfer that’s what a lot of young kids dream of being how are your parents as you were growing up and you were thinking about competing as a junior golfer and then obviously getting into the professional ranks how was it personally you going through that as a kid in France yeah that that that was nice I was I am very lucky that my two parents are sports sports guy my mom is a golf teacher my dad played football as a profession Prof was captain of the main team of Bordeaux won the French Championship back back in the days so we were I was a lot into sports uh they had a lot of positivities and values through sport I think sport teach a lot of great values uh for life and uh this is the way I grew up and uh obviously it got me a little bit into um competition competition mind so no was was just uh the right way to grow up for me how did how did your parents being being both in in sports and coaches help formulate how you approach your practicing structuring your time I know in your interview after you won a Tor you talked a lot about thinking your team you know so who who is on your team and what does that look like right now in terms of you know Training Fitness mental side of things how do you how do you approach all that yeah this is uh this is the thing I really changed over the last three years uh when when I started on tour I didn’t had a lot of sponsors and I kind of was a bit scared to really invest all the money I had at that time into a team but this is definitely what you have to do if you want to get the best out of your game um and I slightly started to build a team I have uh an American physical trainer Ben sheer who has rder Cup players and Majors winner my coach Jamie go has also R Cup players and uh like six or seven guys back in um back in Europe we are three playing on the PJ tour a pting coach we which come from Norway so I have a lot of international yeah it’s really International but you know in France like the game is slightly growing and I think for now maybe we don’t have all the PE the right people to teach uh everything you know we have good golf coaches I’m sure about that but maybe we are a little bit young into I don’t know into putting or into physical training or whatever especially for golf and uh because uh you don’t have time to take people and try to grow all together uh I really decided to invest of uh what’s the what’s the best year in America and in different other countries when you’re building a team to Marty’s Point how do you go I’m always amazed by this like how do you go about it how do you find the trainer how do you find the coach like are you asking other players who who they work with like how does that go about as you said it’s been a big part of of your journey the last couple years so the thing is I’m really interested about performance and when I see people playing great I try to see what they do great and where they they improve the most and stuff like this and uh for my swing I was uh I I mean I am a fade player I always played fade and I was missing left a lot and I saw that guy Jam go and suan at that time rder cup player eating super beautiful fad and a lot of lot of great fate players like Brandon stone at that time uh and also Lee howon guys guys won on tour and been in the top 100 and even more top 50 in the world so I was like okay that’s the type of guy who shaped the ball left to right so I might have to ask him to see my swing and this is how we started Ben sheer uh coach of Victor Perez best french guy at that time uh won on tour two or three three times I think uh close to being in the rider cup uh had that that bad Co year who stopped him but uh same I I talked a lot to Victor cuz his Budd of mine and uh he he saw a change on his physical physical training with Ben so got to Ben and then putting I saw like I just look on my computer who H who are the best poter on tour and try to see if there is a tendency in between the coach they have and stuff like this and little by little this is how I create like a team the last three years Marty this is like professional research he’s like Str putting like these Five Guys work with this guy let’s go with that guy exactly let’s notice some patterns here that’s great so how how long I mean obviously you you you got your win wire to wire win at the end of last end of 23 the victory this year when did you start putting those pieces in place with your team and start seeing some of the you know the different results uh come out of that it went like uh slowly but surely um two years ago I had a good season on tour get back to race to Dubai finish like 50 years or something then the year after I got like 40 years so was Improvement and we always felt like I was closed and capable to win a tournament but before you actually do it you don’t really know and this is what I was missing the last uh the last few years and uh last year I was having like a average year really average like um pretty close to the same same result that had the past few ones and we were feeling we were getting close and finally that wind drops and it kind of give you freedom in your mind give freedom to your staff because we all know uh that we are working in the right direction we have more you know certainties about the job the the work we’ve put on and he give yeah just freedom to everybody and then I since then I kind of keep keep rolling mat tell us a little bit about I think one one thing that we find interesting we’ve SE seen this with Matt Fitzpatrick is the cross-handed chipping so tell us the story of how that came to be it was fun watching you get have some of those amazing up and downs at Tory uh earlier this year yes so the thing is uh last year as an amateur I had Yips uh I couldn’t chip anymore I was like 30 years in the French ranking and 80 uh 800 in the world as an amateur so pretty far far down below uh everybody so uh I was I was almost close to quit golf because I was uh I was sure that without any chipping you can’t really compete at a as a high level and um just before the Q School in uh in on the app store which is the third division in Europe I was like okay let’s try to find something or I just quit and uh what year is this by the way uh 2014 or 13 and I started chipping like one-handed and I was like okay that’s better I don’t have Yips but it’s like one time short one time long when it’s straight is one time left one time right so it’s like too average and I was like okay I put reverse um I’m going to try to I mean pting is really close to a bumper and run with a eight iron so I started with a eight iron with the same grip as my putting and I hit few shots and I was like okay I’m not scared to hit the ground I’m not scared to the contact I don’t see any movements in my hands or whatever and it started like this good with the eight went to the wedge good with the wedge 58 good with the the 58 I was like okay no more fear so open the face close the face draw the ball flop it different lies tight grain against everything and I was fine and all of the sudden I had again that’s the world freedom I had so much freedom because I wasn’t scared to miss a green and before every time I had the IR to play I was marging away from the [ __ ] because if I was short sided it’s pretty much a boogy right away uh I wasn’t scared anymore to play the power FES in too cuz uh would you would you lay up on purpose just so you didn’t have to chip I was look I was aiming to some of the traps sometimes because in the B I was fine but if I was missing if I was missing my shot in two on the par five on the ti liight it could be one fat one Thin two Putt and you end up with a six right so it was yeah it was tricky and also being having so much relief from that fears from those fears I I just played with so much Freedom since Marty have you ever done it I know you’re a guy that Tinkers around have you done cross-handed before because I do feel like it it does spin I think it spins better if you ever give it a try you never messed around with it yeah just ju just a few times you know but but not seriously but I’m I’m now I’m tempted it’s one of those things mat we love Shane and I love coming on and interviewing all all of you guys because we end up um going back and trying stuff on our own but it’s nice I mean as you said I think to be fair the on really I’m not talking about floppy stuff but really on some some really easy things and just pop up the ball in the air I think you can really add a lot of SP compared to uh left left right and now have you ever gone back have you ever gone back to see what it looked like the other way no cuz uh to be fair I don’t want to see it I’m I’m starting to mastering it more and more so I don’t want to see how it’s like texting an ex-girlfriend I like I don’t know how they’re doing it it is it is I have less fear than before so I can wedge cuz before I was also very scared on onto shots about like 40 50 yards now I kind of play them normal so it’s fine but I won’t I won’t ever go back to uh Norm more GP for the everyday golfer we now have a club for that it’s called the chipper and it’s heavy lightweight you can do cross-handed putting and so you know you got you every The Listener has some options out there now yeah how did you learn English I’m always interested about this with International Players because a you obviously got to learn another language and B you’ve got to feel comfortable enough stuff like this when did you learn it how did you learn it and when did you start to feel comfortable enough to speak publicly yeah uh I think it’s just High School uh I think also that’s bad because I’m just shooting at my country but uh I think the the way we learn English in frence is probably not the best it’s really like you know Theory it’s like learning a lot of words but not really talking and using so I I think it kind of sucks because you have to practice it you have to talk you have to use it it’s just of just learning lessons and write it down writing you know on paper but uh I think I had good Basics and after I went to America for a year when I was 17 and when you’re uh kind of alone in the new country there are no way you can escape so you have you can’t fake it you got to learn it no you have to learn it you have to talk to people at Le trying and this is by trying and make making mistakes like you become better it’s like in golf and everything and uh this is the way uh I learn I learned it more and more and afterwards when you become professional and you travel so much every the the only language you really talk is uh is English I was thinking about your country specifically with golf and I was thinking about how old you must have been in 99 during that Open Championship I’m assuming you were six seven years old what was it like consuming the velt experience and what did that do for you in terms of wanting to continue to play golf and get obviously into the competitive side yeah I mean I I I wasn’t uh looking the at that time I wasn’t really into golf I really have um a look on what happened with uh what happened with Jean um like only maybe 10 years ago okay um but yeah I mean it it is really sad to see uh a finish like this but at the same time is also uh inspiring because what he has achieved this week was pretty big and uh we don’t have any french uh French golfer major winners so far yeah and the guys who get that close like Jean and Thomas Le also who lost a playoff against erniel is really inspiring and it is really um those guys who drives you yeah mat I want to go back a little bit to your chipping and in in and look at your wedges right in and uh your your wedge setup is a little unique compared to other tour players because you play a 58 degree right and then you play a 52 B to 51 so I think a lot of folks would look at that including myself and go boy that’s a big gap and you have more clubs down at the bottom end of your bag which we’ll talk about yeah right so have you always played kind of a 52 51 and then a 58 and do you feel like you’re you have the ability to control your speed and your your your distances to be able to You Know cover any gaps that might have as a you know relative to other players that have you know a 48 52 56 60 for example yeah yeah that’s a good question I thought a lot about maybe uh adjusting this uh it’s just the way I grew up I was I grew up the last uh last 15 years using just a 52 and a 58 so you get more and more comfortable with two clubs uh I’ve been trying a little bit of 56 in the middle just get something a little bit different like 50 56 and 58 or 60 and the thing is uh it felt like I had almost too much options so I didn’t know which shot I should choose like should I play uh a little 56 or a full 58 or stronger 58 or um strong 56 or small 52 and I was like same for the chipping should I use the 52 bump and run or should I just play a 56 or I was a bit confused and I I was like I have too much options which sometimes is not great because when you’re on the chip it’s either the 52 or either the 58 it’s either high or low let’s say so I don’t know it’s just the way I felt it and uh I always like to to have like a hybrid or three iron or even both in my bag so it might change cuz I’m sure uh there are tournaments where it’s it’s better to have three wedges yeah but uh but for now I just feel comfortable this way yeah I mean it’s just it’s so interesting because again I mean I feel like four and even five wedges at times have become popular on the PGA tour and to kind of simplify it I do see players a lot of the time and I’m not talking about Pro players but you know amate players even good Amer players and you almost see them always carrying the two or three wedges up to hit a Chip Shot around the green and I think sometimes the commitment is tough to really feel like you know exactly what kind of shot you’re saying and you’re simply going this club’s the low one this club’s the high one you know exactly what you’re going to what club you’re pulling when you’re hitting certain shots yeah it’s more like this but as I said I think I might I might go to a 58 56 sorry at some point because I think they are it is really nice in the traps to be fair 50 56 is really nice club in the traps and also like for some wedging give you like some like good numbers one or two good numbers yes so um so yeah it might change it depend it will depend probably on the golf course I play your cross-handed chipping at what yardage do you switch over because Matt Fitzpatrick says it’s right like exactly 50 yards so what’s your transition it’s pretty close to Matt I think the the Fest I practice is like 60 60 carry but I don’t to be fair when it goes to 60 I’m already back with uh the normal normal grip but uh yeah most of the time is like I used to practice like five balls every distances every 10 so I go 58 20 30 40 yards and then it was 52 with I’ll do again 40 yards and then 50 60 and then from there I stop I just go back to a 58 in normal normal grip I always love to ask players kind of goals for the year I mean you obviously you’ve already won on the PGA tour you played great at Augusta National did you have to readjust some of the goals for this season after you did so much early in the year yeah it’s not we we haven’t really adjusted anything it’s just that I set up goals uh when I started the year and I tried to go down the list and make them all how many have you checked off thus far I think almost almost almost all just just hanging up for them just I won’t play the rest of the year I wanted to get a win either here in America or back in Europe if I come back play later this year so it’s done I wanted to make a top 7 on the FedEx so I think I’m pretty pretty safe with that uh I wanted to make a cut in the major C cut in the major uh so yeah it’s uh pretty pretty much uh pretty much all done but after I’ll have more goals about like uh process goals and those ones are never really done cuz uh I really wanted to put more work work and get better preparation before tournaments so this never stops so um yeah uh actually uh I think after Hawaii uh I had nice top 10 there and um I said to my uh to my team that one of the girls I wanted to to put in the list to is was to to become rookie of the year so that would be that would be something I’m I’d be chasing till the end of the year be a good race right now for rookie of the year I bet if you got look at some of the players a lot of firsttime winners right now uh I think it’s it’s great uh even if you’re not like 22 anymore you’re 31 or and rookie the PJ it’s a nice goal that would be really awesome to get it uh and uh I mean yeah the race is on with lot of great players Jake naap super nice player he’s the guy who was sitting right next to me uh at the integration weekend uh with the PJ to in Hawai so yeah it’s it’s just it’s just fun it’s a it’s a fun race yeah man how how much do either you or your team uh are into like uh statistics is it do you guys Deep dive on on that front Strokes gain stuff in different areas of of the game or you more focused on your process goals and your results or are you factoring that in looking at I’m really I’m really more into process with my team uh try to practice the best very try to be very efficient but uh the stats are here I have a guy who does my stat in France uh for me collects all my PS low I mean low side high side long short whatever uh collects everything so it’s more like like a tool that I use with my team to see where my game is if we see any Trends and how we can adjust them for example pting is really important for me because the infos we got uh I just give them with my I just give them to my pting coach and we tweak the programs because I’m the guy who every Monday every Tuesday every Wednesday I have the same exercises to do so Monday I have five five ex exercises to do it’s like one one really B six cheing aim ball start and then after I compete it’s a lot of games where you have to hold PS so every Monday same program every T Tuesday same program every Wednesday same program and depending on the stats we kind of adjust like nice have I missed a lot of short putut have I struggle from Far distances have I uh missed a lot of put low or high side and this is how we we we tweak programs and we we arejust just uh from Tendencies we see what what’s travel like been like this year I mean are you traveling are you are you hanging out with players that are international players European players do you have guys you play practice rounds with each and every week are you kind of seeing who wants to go out and play how’s that been this year on the PJ tour yeah um I didn’t know what really to expect the thing is I had the same schedule than my two uh French fellow players uh Baron and Perez and by winning early I didn’t I didn’t share a lot of time with them so I got a little bit uh alone but anyway on my schedule this year I I really tried with my staff to make sure at every tournament I had someone with me so either family comment either pting coach either um uh trainer either physio or whatever to make sure I’m never alone gotcha makes sense how about uh we haven’t asked you about the Olympics yet I can only imagine you were talking about goals for 2024 that one of the go very very high on feels like you’re you’re headed that way but a I mean you know you think about ryer cup years for EUR European players and you think about I got to make the Ryder Cup but to have an Olympics in France and you’re playing the way you’ve been playing what is that like kind of imagining that moment as you kind of get prepared for later this year no no this is uh this is unbelievable I can’t be I can’t be proud enough to be to be part of this uh Olympics is huge I watched them since I’m kid I even had the PlayStation game was when I was uh when I was younger it was a yeah wonder what year that was I don’t know 200000 something but uh yeah so we we uh we grew up with this watching it on TV with my parents my brother so it is just so cool to uh to be part of it and also part of the French you know athletes we have so many great great athletes with a lot of medals so being part of that family is pretty special and even more when you’re going to represent your country on your I’m sorry what’s the golf course like there and uh what do you what do you think the uh the world’s going to think of uh just the the atmosphere for the Olympics this year atmosphere I don’t know like uh how big could be the crowd over there um the thing is the golf is little bit outside Paris so it’s not like the best place in the world uh to OST I would say a golf tournament but the the of course itself is awesome I mean we had the Ryder Cup over there it’s really uh really nice golf course it’s it’s tough It’s going to be a very good test for sure um the only bad thing for me is like I never play great over there maybe six six French Open and made the cut once this is different though so this is yeah it’s different it’s Olympics and no Cuts so um this is for sure one I’m not going to miss uh but no I think it’s going to be also playing different cuz it’s in August and the the past few years we’ve been playing the French Open a little bit later uh in the year more towards SE September and October when it’s wet so no I think it’s going to be it’s going to be nice I think all the players going to like the place you better hit it straight right that’s the goal there I feel like that’s a golf course where you better hit it on a string Ser yeah you you have a lot of water and that stretch 15 15 to 18 it’s uh it’s pretty tough probably one of the toughest in the world I would say Matt I want to talk a little bit about your gear your driver uh one thing we’ve seen with that our drivers become very forgiving is that players can play them longer we’re a big fan of doing this with our everyday golfers at the Ping Proving Grounds when they come in with our Max Max 10K that now because it’s so forgiving you can play it a little bit longer I’m very interested looking at your specs of your driver you play it uh at 46 in yeah right at the limit how did that come to be and was that an idea you had one of your team were you trying to get a little bit more speed a little bit more distance what’s the story behind uh 46 in as your expect so it started with uh just trying to get the middle of the face uh I don’t know why but at a moment in my career I I had a lot of heals yeah so we started to cut the driver to to get a different different club and try to get more Center shot and in the end it was almost the opposite I was still doing hails and HS and HS so I kind of get back to a normal driver uh started to hit it better and um two years ago I uh I was just trying to it’s always a club that I’ve headed pretty straight uh and uh we were looking for a little bit more speed and I was like uh okay should we try a different Shaft or should we try I don’t know just shutting the face a little bit because I was trying I was I felt like I was swinging the club harder and harder and in the end the the option we had is just to lengthen the to create a little bit more speed and not touching the loft or the or the shaft and uh I found out that it was uh it was perfect for me it got a little bit more more speed and which is more impressive is that I started to hit the ball more in the middle of the face yeah more so you’re using the length a little bit you started to get to work on your centeredness of contact I think one other interesting thing you do is you play the driver in our flat position so it’s 3° flat it’s in our flat dot position so hopefully now Shane the listeners know that the PJ tour average driver length is not 44 and a half like it used to be and we got winners like Matt you’re playing it right at 46 in is quite fun yeah yeah yeah as I said I don’t know it’s funny like um I struggled for years to really get the middle of the face with the driver even if I was hitting the ball quite straight and uh all of the sudden we kind of had more length to get first we wanted to get a little bit more speed and a little bit more dist distance and then in the end it ended up that I had more speed and a better contact so it was it was the right things to do I know you’re a tattoo guy we got a tattoo in mind coming up soon like a new tattoo you going to throw one up like the end of the year something like that uh yeah Olympics maybe o yeah Olympic rings yeah so that’s been popular from the players yeah it is it is popular yeah so where we going to go with that it’s tough I don’t know yet I don’t know yet it’s a moment by moment thing yeah no I don’t know yet uh I got like uh not many empty spots now so I might go down on the legs now when did you when did you get into tattoos and and why were you into them was it a young young age thing I I think cuz yeah defin is definitely not something who comes with a golf player but my dad as I said was a soccer player I don’t know he comes maybe from that side every soccer player back in Europe is tattooed so it started like this and uh I don’t know you it’s really addictive you make one it was like more a teenager thing I mean I was 22 but uh was more a teenager things let’s say you get one and you’re like yeah I like it and then I’m going to go up and then I get another one another one and it never stops do you have a favorite one no I don’t to be fair yeah I mean yeah yeah actually I have a my favorite one is uh I have one on my ankle it’s my son’s name and uh is uh the the time of his birth very very cool that’s the one very cool very cool Matthew what tell us a little bit about your first trip to Augusta you finished you finished tyer 12 awesome week that week what was some of your favorite memories and how did the experience of playing there compared to maybe what what you imagined right yeah so um yeah that’s a that’s special week which is crazy is like I went there the week before practiced two days with Shane Lowry and uh I was really surprised cuz it was looking so open like I I arrived at that Clubhouse went on the first te and I was like wow it’s really open I can see the second green down below everything looks so open you can see the holes uh you know under the trees you can see everything and really surprised obviously by the the heels in the slope uh that when when you go up on the first te you see the first and you’re like wow okay there is like that mass massive ball and goes up M so yeah it was it was really special and uh Shane was was laughing at me and said yeah wait wait wait till next week you’ll see it’s not that open and it was totally true because uh when you show up on Mondays already I don’t know like more than 20,000 people that day and you can’t see any horse it’s just like full of people right to left and it makes the thing much more Tighter and you and just uh an awesome place is really really surprising the the first day of the practice round is uh really surprised myself so it was good to go the week before get a a little bit of you know taste because the Monday was uh was really special it was like uh you know when you bring a kid to Disneyland it was exactly the same the same feeling but yeah I mean that was that was a crazy week you you can really feel that play is special when you hit the second sh into 11 yeah from you start on the am cor Corner 11 second shot then 12 and 13 you’re like wow okay this is this is like the cool three holes in the world yeah what I find so interesting about players at the Masters is you guys aren’t going to go to merch tents at normal golf events you guys aren’t going to go shopping at normal golf events but at the Masters especially at first Masters you might go shop you’re going to buy stuff for your family true Did you shop I did yeah was the was the receipt substantial well not all your Tory money not not a very small amount of my Tory money but it was yeah I mean you have some some many six to buy I don’t know how many flags you get like 20 30 Flags everybody wants one so flags are big then you get in inside and you see all the different shirts you can get you have the all the different sweater different style like sporty you get the nice Kashmir you got everything then you go to clubhouse different logos special ones tea pocket like a book with the where I write my notes with the Master’s logo never ends up I I I wonder so like idiots like me that go to the Masters have friends that text and say buy me a shirt do you get friends that text you and say buy me this buy me that H yeah I have friends and not only friends I have everyone you get like a random number on your phone like I don’t know who this is you have guys you haven’t seen for 10 years say oh can you grab me a flag when you come back we be much appre I was like well yeah okay I got flag well we really appreciate the time it’s been great chatting with you it’s been fun watching you play this year I mean the game has been solid not obviously not just at Tory Pines but kind of throughout the season and uh we’ll be rooting for you not just the rest of the year but into the Olympics that’s going to be really really special so thanks for the time no no pleasure anytime and uh yeah it’s uh it’s really uh really a pleasure to be part of that pink family this is The Proving Grounds podcast [Applause]
