Is a Brook Lopez trade the only option the Milwaukee Bucks have to reshape their roster?

Justin and Frank Madden discuss the opening to free agency. Andre Drummond was the first name to switch teams, everyone is waiting on Paul George, are the Bucks plotting moves? We take a look at what we know and what we could see in the next couple days on the latest Locked on Bucks

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on today’s lockdown bucks We Begin our look into the offseason free agency officially begins and it gets off to quite a slow start so we sift through what we’ve seen so far what we think is going to happen as everything seems to be hanging on Paul George so we’ll get into that coming up next on lock on bucks you are locked up on bucks your daily Milwaukee Bucks podcast part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day welcome into lock on bucks I’m Justin Garcia joined by Frank Madden as we thank you for making lock on bucks your first listen every day free and available wherever you get your podcast you can find us on YouTube as well part of the locked on podcast Network your team every day today’s lock on bucks is brought to you by fan make every moment more as the playoffs wind down the Sports Stop sporting like we want them to this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a boost or a bonus daily that’s right there’s something for everyone every day all summer long visit fanduel.com lockon to get started and uh speaking of getting started Frank the free agency period began uh Sunday after did it did it start okay so that was kind of the question is um how much are we going to see and I know Camille and I talked about this last week too but um you kind of got the sense this could be like 2016 all over again when you think about there’s not much out there in this free agency class but there’s a handful of teams that were in on Paul George so it’s all going to come down to him so I think Saturday was the first checkpoint where you wanted to see okay does he in because I would assume if he does that means there’s a trade in the works and that open UPS opens up other teams that he can go to he declined the player options so then you thought well it’s it’s probably down to the magic uh the Sixers or staying in in LA but just like we saw with the with Kevin Durant in 2016 I think the Gordon Hayward summer was the same thing as well they didn’t pick their teams until the Fourth of July so a couple of days into it and in the meantime you would see smaller scale signings of teams that knew like Hey we’re not even in on this so we don’t have that domino effect everyone else though whether they were in on that player or they were in on somebody else that was waiting on those teams was just kind of stuck in this holding pattern and I don’t know if it’s going to be days but it seems like that’s what most of Sunday was yeah I mean my whole like mindset coming into this was and and I think I think Camille and I talked about about it on draft night um you know as far as like expectations of of things happening especially around the bucks right uh and we’ve talked about it right I mean Bobby and Pat were available at the deadline nothing happened right um now there were obviously suggestions that you know was there a grant Williams trade possibility you know not not to say that there was like no chance of anything happening or that you know the Bucks were wedded to keeping those guys you know till the end of time but that was a natural time if you were going to see a deal to potential see1 then when it didn’t happen I think it said something about their value leading up to the draft you have a unique situation where you actually have two draft picks that should have some appeal and especially with someone like Pat who I think his value from a contractual standpoint is negative at this point not like wildly negative but like nobody’s banging down your door to get Pat conits in for $9 million a year for the next two years um and so when again we don’t see anything happen and we see them take young players with those two draft picks um I think that’s told you that like uh there’s probably not much going on here as far as you know interest in Pat hon and Bobby poris and you know again like is is something going to change that is there going to be some event that triggers a change you know it’s almost like those like probability like you know the uh like kind of like the win probability thing like the trade probability curve for like Pat and Bobby I think should have like gone up at the time of like leading right up to the draft and then when they know get traded go down pretty precipitously so I know like people are kind of I know it seems like a lot of fans like are kind of like sitting around waiting to see the WJ bomb the Shams bomb um of those guys getting moved because people just want to see something happen but again you know like the the point is not to just trade guys just to move them especially if the market is is not going to support giving you you know useful players back and again like you can argue well how useful were those guys in the playoffs blah blah blah but um you know obviously Bobby poris is I’d say certainly a useful regular season player for whatever you know challenges he may have in the postseason and Pat obviously this year not as much but you know even last year against Miami like he was actually had a great series Series against the Heat which kind of got lost to history given kind of what happened in that Series so again I don’t think the Bucs want to just give those guys away someone was asking me about like stretching Pat you know you could stretch him over five years and you I think you’d owe basically like 3.9 million or so a year rather than the 9.4 over the next two years problem is like you then also have to sign somebody so that knocks basically $2 million off the theoretical benefit of that so like net net it’s like you know maybe there’s like three and half million dollar of effective benefit from stretching Pat conathan that’s not going to get you under the second apron that’s not going to get you or or you know the the taxpayer mid level or something like that so the upside is is not high to to do something with Pat unless there’s a trade to be had and so I think you know my my kind of thinking coming into this startup free agency was all right you have only minimums to offer and granted I think the buck especially with that fifth starter role can offer a very appealing role to someone willing the take the minimum Chris Dunn I think is probably like you know the top of a lot of people’s list um you know a few other guys could be appealing you know again I’m not going to sit here and tell you like Josh aogi or Dennis Smith Jr is going to like change your life or you know put the Bucks in the driver’s seat for the Eastern Conference or something but you know I think there there’s Arguments for why guys like that could could be very appealing is even if they’re not the fifth starters is giving you depth in the back court giving you defensive Edge you didn’t have last year um but the flip side is you’re still offering minimums and the Bucks have tried to do one-year minimums because there’s a further cap benefits doing a one-year minimum rather than a two-year minimum like Phoenix last year did one plus ones which carry a cap number um bigger tax hit than just doing straight one-year veteran salaries again like won’t kind of bother people with the why of that but obviously if you’re a guy taking a minimum you’d rather have a one plus one because worst case scenario if you you know your you know ACL gets torn or something then you can always just yeah and you got you got some coverage um and the Bucs have have tried again to minimize even that right Malik Beasley had a one-year deal you know he didn’t have a OnePlus One um so again like the idea that like you know free agency starts and you’re going to have like people banging down your door and saying like the Bucks have signed Chris Dunn to a minimum oneyear minimum contract I mean yeah it makes sense like those guys should probably shop around a little bit and see what else is out there um see how things play out maybe some team has money available and and throws them a bone with something more than the minimum maybe something closer to the tax per mid level something like that right so the Bucks have to I think by definition if they’re going to get somebody good it’s probably not somebody that is going to take that deal at five o’clock or whatever um at the start of free agency you probably need to wait you know like a day or two I think Malik Beasley I think signed on the day four I believe year yeah I think it was like July it might have been the 4th of July too was a couple of days into it where to your point you wait to see is there anything out there is there a taxpayer mid-level or a mid- level for me no okay right let’s start looking at the teams that are offering the the minimum yeah so you know again long story short I think not at all surprising that there’s been no Pat or Bobby trade um I think one question that’s been coming up a lot um and it’s it’s amazing how many people I’ve been dming with with like other kind of like bucks cap nerds like you know Van van FAS was on the Pod last week and like van I’ve been exchanging a lot of messages like so many of us are like even us like nerds who have like spent so much time looking at this are like still trying to parse a little bit like okay so what what exactly can the Bucks do with like salary aggregation as best as I can understand it just because it’s been coming up a lot I think the Bucks are technically right now under the second apron but once they sign essentially you know up to 14 or 15 guys they will definitely be over I think you know my projection if they sign fill out the roster to 15 with with one-year minimums they’ll be around like 6.7 million over the second apron so I think basically if they wanted to do a salary aggregating trade they would again my understanding is that that would trigger the second and apron as a hard cap Yeah so basically like if you do this you have to then stay under the second apron for the rest of the season the year right which like flat out isn’t feasible right now if you just took even money back in an aggregating trade wouldn’t be feasible because you still have to add dudes and you’d be over the second apron so the idea that like you’re going to do an aggregating trade where you add you know Pat and Bobby but then you take back you know like something that like would theoretically like fil the bill of this would be like Pat and Bobby for Dorian finny Smith who makes a little bit more than Bobby so you couldn’t trade him straight up because the can’t take back more than 100% but it’s like what is the motivation here for for Brooklyn to do a deal like that like I mean again like I think I I believe a trade like that theoretically and again I don’t know Brooklyn’s cap situation but like if that would technically work from the Bucks perspective because you would save off a fair amount of money like six seven million bucks yeah but again it’s just like like what are the like versions of that type of deal that could actually happen and I just I’m very skeptical and I think in general I think the fact that they use both of those the first round pick the second round pick especially the first round pick given the C hit that had um I think to me that tells me that you know they’re going to be okay they’re kind of resigned if they have to to being over the second apron bring it yeah and then the main thing is then they want to not be in the second apron next year because if you hit it a third time in five years and it starts doing cap freezing and things like that but the second apron is also going to go up by 10% next year when the TV money comes Etc and I think they’re going to have a much easier time dodging the second APR in a year from now but this year it’s going to be very difficult so you know all told basically I’m not saying that you have to be happy about this as a fan because I’m I’m sure people want to see yeah this team improved because they clearly need I think you know better defense in the back court more athleticism blah blah blah the stuff we’ve been talking about for a while um but how they EX do that I mean I don’t think there’s been a lot of like John horse slander on my timeline today and look I’m not gonna sit here and tell you John horse is like the perfect GM or something but there’s not a ton that they can do and again you can say that that’s like part of you know their own making because of decisions made previously but right now there’s not I don’t think like some home run easy trade that that again really improves the team um and again I think I and I think probably what we’ll talk about here on this PO is like we keep kind of coming back to like well would you be willing to trade Brook Lopez because he seems like the guy who was not previously on the market who they would least entertain that and who would have notably more value but the flip side being he’s also I think much harder to replace than than P hon or Bobby poris I mean I don’t know if you’re a golf for Frank but this this whole offseason for the bucks what they have it’s basically like if you show up to the Golf Course to play your round and you see oh I just have a driver and a putter in my bag so like these are the only two things I can do everything in between I don’t know how I’m gonna do this and that’s basically the cap situation that the Bucks are in they could pull off some type of trade if if you want to talk yourself into maybe it’s time to trade Chris Middleton or as we mentioned Brook Lopez uh with those types of contracts or it’s just the minimums because everything in the middle it’s basically out the window especially as more days go by from the draft and into free agency too without making those types of moves where you you would look to trade one of those contracts and add the very very limited sweeteners that the Bucks had coming into this off season and you know even just something like that entirely hypothetical Brooklyn trade that that you mentioned I mean the other piece to it is you know you’re sending out two players so you still have to fill out your own roster and you’d have to try to stay under that assuming you’re allowed to do it you would definitely have to stay under that second apron but now it’s one more guy that you’re GNA have to add on the veteran minimum to round out that roster so that’s what makes this offseason all the more tough for the bucks yeah and I think that again I would be very wary of making a Brook Lopez trade just to make a Brook Lopez trade right um I know there’s obviously a population of people out there who are like you know oh whatever you know sign bismack bomo and like because he’s can Sprint up and down the floor faster than Brooke therefore he must be better defensively um I’m obviously not one of those I know you’re not one of those but um I I I do think and and this I think is an important thing and this is something I’ve been saying right I think I think the appeal of trading Brooke is that you can potentially disaggregate his $23 million salary into a couple of players who I don’t I wouldn’t expect you know any of the players you would trade for to be individually better than Brook Lopez yeah the selling point would be could they be more versatile than Brook Lopez especially in a playoff setting well that that would obviously be part of the selling point um like the onoff numbers with Brooke the last two first round playoff exits have been bad they’ve been a lot better with him off the floor in spite of the fact that offensively he’s been like Gang Busters like against the Heat against the Pacers he scored a ton and efficiently like Brook Lopez always makes shots in the playoffs like give Brook his flowers on that front but again there’s matchups where it’s just not going to be his favorable for him and certainly like if he’s doesn’t have Giannis out there and you’re having to play him more because Giannis is hurt I.E the last two postseasons and that’s going to exacerbate the challenges with the brook but I do think there are you know examples that at least I would entertain um the idea of trading him for uh call it two players that are cheaper or I don’t know maybe three players but call it two players who are rotation worthy and again individually probably neither of them is as well-rounded you in terms of offense defense nobody that is gonna go out and finish second in Defensive Player of the Year as Brook as a reminder he was only he’s only you know 13 months removed or whatever it is from from Finish second in defensive player of the year um you’re not going to get a guy that caliber but um and obviously we can we can chat through like some of the I don’t know hypotheticals of like what some of those deals might look like but maybe there’s a move that either disaggregates him into two rotation players to give you more depth and maybe some more defensive versatility maybe younger right pretty much by definition you’re going to get younger if youa if you trade Brooke um but if you even if you don’t maybe take back two guys maybe you take back one guy or one guy who’s you know cheaper and then another guy who’s also pretty cheap and then maybe that is what you know reduces your salary and gives you some more flexibility um although again I would always kind of caution as well like if you’re doing like a major salary dump just to be able to aggregate salaries then you have to want then you have to also think about like what do you have left at that point right to actually then do salary aggregating moves and again all things being equal like yeah I definitely would want to be able to aggregate salaries because you never know on the margin we’re like throwing in an extra you know Marge on on over here or whatever it is might be like that can be helpful um but again like aggre being able to aggregate is in and of itself not the not the end goal right it’s it’s a tool to be able to make the team better and you can’t you know kind of do something destructive overly destructive just to have that as an option because again there’s so few kind of tools you have to to make moves and again you know I think if you want to criticize the draft picks I I I think it’s a lot less if if you’re mad about the draft picks to me like if you’re doing it to the lens of like you have to compete now you have your window I think the argument is much more that you should have found ways to trade those picks either for players or Kick the Can down the road so then you can make a move leading up to the deadline with picks um and less about like well I wanted an older player versus the young guys that got because again like I don’t know I feel like the talent the the the talent eye that you have to have for the pick swamps the like experience piece of it like I think if you pick a good player you’re much more likely to get something even very early on from that player if they’re young than if you just like pick some average guy that just happens to be 23 years old right like again like picking somebody who’s experienced just for the sake of being experienced like I think that you can kind of easily fall into a trap but as we said last week as well like the Bucks have not shown like have not won the benefit of the doubt right I mean DJ Wilson was you know had played three years of college was DJ Wilson the immediate impact guy that that people hope for no absolutely not right um you know Malcolm brogen’s really kind of like probably the exception in terms of guys who were like really experienced college players who were older um and then that did come in and really were able to make an instant impact but for the most part you know like whether the bcks have picked young old whatever over the past you know post Giannis years pretty much nobody has has really kind of come through so um so I don’t know it’s kind of a nuanced thing but you know again people anchor on the age because that’s the easiest thing to see right the hard part is figuring out like who’s actually ever going to figure out how to play NBA basketball um that’s unfortunately the part we just have to sit back and wait on um a couple other things I do want to get to on uh Brook Lopez because it it it seems like that’s really the only thing you have left in the short term i i as we mentioned you know the Bobby poris if he is traded to me that seems like that’s something that’ll happen later into the offseason in the summer when teams start to strike out and it’s well we can rekindle these talks with the bucks but there’s some interesting things to the Brook Lopez component you mentioned a few of them um but I I want to get into a couple other things with Brooke and this this Bucks team going forward we’ll do that after the break here unlocked on bucks well I love sports so much that I never want them to stop but as the playoffs wind down we get fewer games and the sports aren’t sporting like I want them to FanDuel lets me keep the sports going whenever I want all I have to do is open the app and dream up bets anytime I’m in the mood and this summer FanDuel is hooking up all customers with a boost or a bonus daily so there’s something for everyone every day all summer long head over to fanduel.com lockon and start making the most out of your summer FanDuel official sports betting partner of Major League Baseball all right Frank we before we started recording too we kind of tried to take a look at real ically what’s out there that would make sense is as you mentioned the hypothetical what if you did with this with the Nets but again hey there’s no interest in the Brooklyn Nets for doing this so looking at some of the the teams that we saw come out in a few various reports of hey this team would be interested in Brook Lopez um there are a couple that stood out and I think the one that’s most interesting because we’ve seen it now from a few reporters today or Sunday as free agency begins and that’s the report that’s out there that I think this was one of the teams we heard showing an interest a week or so ago that the Lakers are very interested in reacquiring Brook Lopez which that team is fully into we got a win now because we have LeBron James for who knows how much longer um that would be a terrifying front Court defensively when you got Anthony Davis’s versatility and Brook Lopez as a rim protector so I can talk myself into the fit for the uh the Lakers here but I think the tricky part is one of the things that you were mentioning towards the end there when we talked about any potential Brook Lopez trade when you look at the roster of the Lakers here and you know here’s the other piece I think two teams to point out of potential interest in Brook Lopez Lakers and the Mavericks they’re also two teams that are linked to Klay Thompson and it doesn’t seem like it’s going to be a straight up signing it’s going to be a signing trade with Klay Thompson leaving the Warriors so you have to factor that in as well of well they could lose assets here I just don’t see the perfect fit with Lakers Personnel coming back to the Bucks and that’s ultimately going to be the toughest part of any Brook Lopez trade as we’ve mentioned the value that he does bring but I just don’t know what trade is out there involving Brook Lopez that makes you better it make you different and it give you versatility but let’s just say the Houston Rock it’s another team that um that were said to have shown interest obviously last year but now this summer again uh for Houston we’ve talked through it before what would make sense for both sides probably would be something that included Stephen Adams and another one of those young guys T een I know is a name that Bucks fans have kicked around a lot but let’s say you do that trade Stephen Adams is he’s certainly not going to be closing for you in those types of minutes so I’m not sure how much you totally addressed your playing different adding more versatility I don’t know that your front Court would be tar een and Yannis as your five four and five closing there and that’s ultimately going to be the biggest challenge here is sure you could add some more versatility but I don’t know what you’re going to do for the rest of those moments to get to the end of those games where you want that versatility yeah I mean and and I think easy to overl um challenge with moving either Brooke or Bobby is the durability those guys have had um you know really outside of the Brooke back injury year yeah uh other than that Brooke pretty much you know shows up to work every night in the last two years you know his minutes have been the highest that they’ve been during his bucks tenure which um not ideal probably like for his longevity but you know so far obviously he’s held up those last couple years um I think I think the Houston the Houston deal you know is kind of the the reverse side of the durability coin obviously with Stephen Adams like he’s had some concerning injury issues you know missed all last year with um a knee injury um you know not a Brook Lopez in terms of durability for sure ean’s also had kind of some again I don’t know all the depths of kind of what um like the leg injury issues he’s had but but he’s also had some durability problems um I think you’ve got what two years I think left on his rookie contract at least so you’ve got some some team control um but I think you know I would definitely think long and hard about that option just because I think een is is unique and interesting enough and I think if you are rolling the dice on a guy on a move like that I think you have to figure out ways to get tar een on the floor and he’s not going to be you know your starting shooting guard so you have to figure out ways to lean more into Giannis at the five um type of lineups which you know I know I think we’ve all kind of tried to make people aware that Giannis does not want to be a starting five for sure um and his interest in you know banging down low um as a five for extended periods probably is not super high especially coming off tou sh years where he wasn’t healthy in the playoffs but certainly uh Stephen Adams might be a guy that he would appreciate just from just like a physical bodyguard type perspective um doesn’t obviously stretch the floor like Brooke does but um you know his rebounding his boxing out um is tremendous right I think one of the guys that that could actually be an upgrade great on Brooke who again doesn’t grab a lot of rebounds himself but is great at boxing out and giving Giannis room to to to grab rebounds um but yeah and and I think and I think to be clear too I mean I’ve heard a few people say like well you know jannis like there aren’t that many like low post centers like what is he really that worried about to me it’s not really like the post-ups it’s just like having night toight like if Stephen Adams type guys are the ones that you have to box out it’s exhausting you know like look there’s one team that’s not going away with this off season in Philadelphia that you got to worry about Joel embiid you don’t want Giannis defending Joel on be right I mean you’re going to have to double constantly right or just have him fronting constantly and that’s exhausting too right like if if you’re it’s not only that but it it just to be able to use Janis especially assuming the Bucks can improve their perimeter defense in the off season here but to be able to use Young is there as the weak side Helper and to come over as here he’s our second rim protector is what makes him even more valuable defensively and you know you’re taking that away that I know if you are able to find something that fits where you can get an athletic four um I I still think and and we’re in aligned here you would love to find some type of cheap Center that can just eat up those Center minutes so that can be your closing lineup is is yanis is your rim protector and you have athletic switchability next to him but I mean easier said than done with what’s out there this summer yeah I mean if you were going to trade Brook Lopez I think you would need to do it like now because the number of guys like for one let’s say Stephen Adam it’s like a Stephen Adams e type deal right and I’m sure they would not want to give up e they’d say like look at Jan Tate don’t you like Jan Tate like not really like he I I’ve had my phases where I appreciated Jan Tate but he’s pretty much not gotten better he just they just picked up his team option he makes more money than T using two um but I I think if you were trading Brooke right like you look at some of these teams like the Lakers for instance like I guess the Lakers would probably try to sell you on like ruy hachimura in his $17 million a year he’s a versatile more versatile Defender and look at his you know three-point shooting in the playoffs like yeah but I don’t know I mean like R ru’s like fine but like again like he’s not starting at Center for you so like he’s basically a Bobby replacement not a brook replacement and so they would probably say well Jackson Hayes just opted into his contract here you can have him he’s a he’s a center um and then you’d say well yeah well Jackson Hayes is also a guy that you know has bounce around because he just kind of is not really very smart and just kind of an athlete running around out there um and you know like they could throw cam reddish who just opted into his player option for a minimum which is also kind of like tells you do something about his Market um so like yeah they could throw like some bodies at you but again like the Lakers like are they some great trade partner like Jared Vanderbilt yeah interesting player but like are you starting Jared Vanderbilt at the two even though he’s versatile he’s very large and can’t shoot um so the Lakers are definitely an imperfect Target but it is at least noteworthy that you know they are interested in h in Brooke um you know I think Orlando has been a team that I’ve kind of looked at sort of throughout the summer as a potential landing spot in part because if Brooke has to leave I would want him to be in the Magic Kingdom um shout out to Brooke um you know they have Willie uh Willie Willie cystein no they have wend Carter Jr um who I don’t think wend Carter Jr is you know like the missing piece for the Milwaukee Bucks but he’s he’s good he can shoot an open three um he’s more mobile defensively but he’s also a big guy um and he’s younger and cheaper so you know when Carter Jr plus something um potentially allowing you to get off some money they have cap space so again it could be a salary dump that also gets you cheaper um and younger would I entertain that like I guess I would entertain it but it would yeah pain me I don’t think you’re better next year for it as it were um so but but it’s difficult and then like you know Dallas was thrown around like Dallas was listed as like a team that might be interested yeah and I I guess the logic there might be just that Gafford and Lively are kind of very similar stylistically so would you want a veteran who can play differently and stretch out the floor you know not withstanding Derk Lively making that one random three-pointer in the in the finals like that’s obviously not his game so could they have interon Brooke like I I I guess um and so like what what could that type of deal look like uh you know Gafford makes 1314 kind of like a similar like to the W Carter Jr thing like basically you get a guy who’s a fair bit cheaper younger um you know Gafford is obviously not a shooter at all um but a solid rim protector and then what else can Dallas give you on top of that uh you know they’ve got a number of kind of random pieces right that they could throw in like Dante exom be still my heart obviously um I think would be actually a pretty good fit in Milwaukee but again it’s like you know what’s what are you really trying to do right Quenton grimmes was just on the way I’ve been a guy I’ve been very intrigued by Quenton Grimes I think he’d be a great fit in Milwaukee but you know concerns about his knee and his health and why the Pistons were willing to just give up on give up on him for a pretty low price you know here with Dallas um so again like I I think with Brook at least there are options that I would at least consider um but again kind of returning to my point like you know if you are doing a deal where you do not get back your starting center then and you’re expecting to get one in free agency like the number of appealing centers in free agency is like very very short I mean to me it’s like Goa bad I guess and like preci yeah precious auua but you’re not gonna get any floor spacing there but he’s he can defend some on the perimeter um but yeah like but like but like those guys aren’t signing if Brook Lopez and Bobby poris are here right like they’re not going to look up walking and be like yeah big opportunity for me yeah like I want to be the fourth big it’s like no like if you traded and you had a big hole at Center like that would be bad but you know I guess you could maybe talk those guys into like hey look at this great opportunity but again then you know you’re they’re not just going to give you Brook Lopez production which um again I don’t know part of me is like it kind of also makes me look back at Brook’s tenure here and kind of like especially offensively wish that like they had more consistently leveraged some of Brook’s interior score ability but you know so it goes right like that if Brooke is around then hopefully that may be something that that doc can lean on a little bit more um than than maybe we’ve seen in the past but so yeah I think there’s some Brook options there um and that really is probably I think if there is going to be a big move and something that really shakes things up I think yeah then that that would be the more obvious path to take um but again like are you making a move just to make a move um or or is it really making you better you know that that we would have to kind of wait and see I’m sure I know there’s people who would be happy to see Brooke go just to you know say like ah drop defense like something something but gotta get younger yeah I mean and look I mean getting younger is is important although by the same token have to get younger yeah but but how you do it is is the big piece of it there’s one other thing I do want to get into um briefly here with Brook Lopez and then then we mentioned what’s going on in the rest of the East as as fres begins here we’ll take a look at that coming up after the break on lock on bucks all right so like the last thing to put a bow on the Brook Lopez conversation here um I mentioned this somewhere else I don’t remember if it was with Camille last week or not but um how much value it so to be clear there’s a lot of value having Brooke on your team on the floor but you know I know you said if you’re going to do it the time is now but also how much value is there to to carry him into the season as a $23 million expiring contract that if it gets to the point of hey we got to do something that’s a pretty big chip to dangle at the trade deadline and then also as you mentioned the cap going up uh 10% next year is going to give you a lot of help or at least moderate help in your relation to the second apron but then if Rook Lopez moves on too obviously you want some type of asset management but if you take 23 million off the books that helps you even more so that’s where I’m kind of stuck of between the those two things and and everything we’ve gone through before of I just don’t really see the trade that’s out there where you’re making yourself better trading Brook Lopez it it kind of seems like it would be a deal where you send out a dollar and you get back three quarters yeah I mean you would have to You’ have to really buy into I I think that’s definitely true from a regular season standpoint um factoring in again just in the regular season like Rim protection and size like people always I think like people especially over the last decade with switching and things like that like people I think began to sleep on the inherent value of just being like big and protecting the rim in terms of regular season defensive success um and I think again like there’s a reason why we kind of always keep coming back to this and there’s a reason why like most teams do not start you know like 69ine just pure switch centers like you know like bam atab bio types are just like the exception to the rule and for the most part what is successful and it’s been this way for a long time is just having big guys that can stop you from getting layups right um and whether you talk talk about Boston um you know New York and their size and what that’s meant not just in terms of room protection but rebounding um you know Dallas how much their season turned around when they you essentially doubled the number of big centers that they could throw from a rim running perspective um you know again I think that’s just something that is here to stay now again I think there is an interesting question I think there’s been some debate about like do the Bucks really need a a floor stretching Center or can they get away with a rim running big man in a way that we kind of presumed that they would not want to even try with Giannis just from a spacing perspective um look I think you’re I think with Giannis you’re always going to be better being able to put four Shooters around him versus having to being forced to put a big guy in the dunker spot because that guy can’t shoot um you know we we talked a few years ago about how they began putting you know a lot of times guards in the dunker spot because then that puts a smaller Defender as kind of the rotating help guy when Giannis is driving you know if you’ve got Daniel Gafford or whoever sitting in the dunker spot though that guy’s being guarded by a center so then Giannis is driving at you know not just whoever is guarding him who’s probably like a four maybe a three but also then having that that Center you know being able to to rotate over and and challenge him at The Rim so again I it could still work you know I’m sure the Bucs can scheme around that like I’m not gonna say it’s like oh they Giannis just can’t play with a you know one non-shooter Giannis is a problem solver I’m sure they can figure out but like does that optimize you know your offense I don’t think it optimizes your offense um but you know it’s something something kind of worth monitoring I mean we saw from Giannis like he and Brooke I thought had great chemistry with Brooke flashing to the rim and being a a big Target around the basket not just a guy standing you know 27 feet from the basket um waiting for kickouts to to shoot threes from I thought that was kind of one of the wrinkles that was always interesting was when Brooke actually did try to be a target for Yannis on the basket but um but anyway yeah I mean it’s I think it’s the one kind of big to me it’s the big I I said it was the big existential question coming to the offseason like do the Bucks entertain trading Brook Lopez as the big change that they might make and I think that’s still the case especially with kind of some of these other doors closing and especially with the draft picks not being moved for help and not being used to you know make the make the Bobby poris and Pat conon trades happen that obviously everybody has sort of been like waiting for but you know I think there’s unfortunately good reasons why that those haven’t happened as we uh start to wrap things up here we kind of hinted at it when we said I mean Philadelphia’s not going away you got to contend with Joel embiid so you’d like to have some size in terms of a traditional big there but um I think it was in the back of all of our minds I was always under the assumption this was just the world’s strangest game of chicken and Paul George was eventually going to end up back in Los Angeles and now it certainly appears he’s headed to the 76ers which I don’t think is great news for the bucks and the Eastern Conference as Philly’s also added darl Mory favorite um Eric Gordon on the vet minimum and they still have a some more room to do some things that one of the names we we did not mention in terms of who else could you add not a traditional big per se but uh Nick Batum is not going to be back in Philadelphia and I think he’d fit nicely with the bugs but it’s also hey would you be interested in taking a vet minimum here when I’m sure he’s got those offers elsewhere and possibly more but uh Philadelphia seems like it’s it’s going to be maybe as early as Monday that we hear Paul George is headed there and then the prospects of knowing the Celtics have built up what they have Chris DSP Zinga sounds like he’s going to miss some time to start the season but that’s still obviously a very good team and a 76ers team that would have a trio of Joel mbid Tyrese Maxi and Paul George and the New York Knicks Addie male Bridges I mean that’s the other tricky part about this offseason for the bucks and we said there’s very limited things they could do but I think we’ve seen things flip in that the western conference is where we’ve seen on day one of free agency what three teams or so start to take a step backwards it seems and now the East I mentioned male Bridges his addition in New York and Paul George we think headed to Philly I’m not saying it’s fully hey the East is better than the west but we’re seeing teams get better in the East yeah I mean a year ago right it was like oh Boston and Milwaukee like clear top to in the East right no one’s going to be saying that coming into this season I think it’s going to be very fashionable I mean we’ll see again like the Paul George thing I mean it hasn’t even been like officially broken but it’s more just a you know process of elimination right like well he’s not going back to LA and Orlando like can they even make the offer like maybe but like is he really goingon to go to Orlando over Philly I mean again let’s just assume the worst that that he goes to the six um so I I do just real quick I do think Orlando still has um close to the max for Paul George um but they have to round out their roster is the other tricky part so it would be Paul George and then vet minimums the rest of the way well and they obviously want to throw everything they can to get Brook Lopez too right Justin so um so yeah I mean it’s I would say it’s a bad you know holistically it’s been a bad you know week for the Milwaukee Bucks 2025 title chances right draft night you know both through the Bucks in action right taking first and second rounders who are obviously not going to have an impact um on next year’s team really again like I don’t think anybody that they were going to pick was was gonna make me think that like oh like this really helps them win a championship next year right like to be clear I think that would have been pretty naive um but obviously New York um I I’m very curious what happens with Isaiah hartenstein it seems I’m hoping Isaiah hardenstein goes to OKC or someplace other than staying in New York because I think losing hartenstein especially with how Mitchell Robinson is hurt every year um that would materially weaken the Knicks um as compared to if they were you know resigning OG and they added male bridges on top of that so um so that’s something I’m definitely watching out for again not saying that hard and shine is as good as Mel Bridges or something but certainly that would put a dent in the Euphoria of of adding Mel Bridges who obviously like his plug andplay fits beautifully everywhere um but yeah I mean I think I think the consensus probably if the Sixers fill out their roster like reasonably well with Paul George plus you know I mean they signed Eric Gordon but whatever like maybe if they can keep some other pieces I I don’t know off hand we were talking earlier like somebody like DeAnthony Melton I don’t know if they can keep melting in that scenario like if they could that would make me feel materially better about them from their perspective um but yeah I mean I think again like as opposed to last year I think a lot of people are probably going to be saying bucks are fourth um and I’m sure there’s going to be some fols saying the Bucks are like fifth or sixth because like you know people are going to say like oh Indiana everybody and Kenny Aon get that to work yeah exactly and I mean who knows I mean I have too who beat the Bucks in the first round right yeah I was going to say Pacers um and Cavs I think will be probably you know popular not the Hawks definitely not the Hawks and I’d say the heat probably at this point also are not going to be looked at as a team we’ll see if Caleb Martin ends up resigning or what happens with him but um you know it’s it’s definely been um a week of change and I think with those two teams they’re going to get a lot of headlines but as we saw last year right like the shiny object of like oh the Bucks just added Dame Lillard like you know it’s G to be so easy blah blah blah like well you know we know it’s not always so easy and with Philly I mean Paul George is gonna turn 35 next year I think he’s aged extremely well but he certainly doesn’t like extend their you know contending window given given his Ag and you know you just never know kind of how things um are kind of going to work out there but um but yeah I mean I don’t think Andre people were asking like Andre Drummond was this great signing like they they already we’ve already seen this ver this version of the the Sixers with Andre Drumm like I don’t I don’t think that really like you know moved the needle previously but um but anyway so uh so anyway it’s it’s um it’ll be interesting to see but honestly like part of me is just like I’m you know I’m okay just the Bucks being like a little under the radar and like not having expectation and like looking back last year when the Sixers were you know everybody was down on the Sixers because of the Harden stuff coming to the year and then when the Sixers were good to start the Year everyone was like oh my God the six oh this is incred and the Bucks were like better than them the entire time but the Bucks you know everybody just on the Bucks and you know I was like you know whatever and we don’t need to relitigate that but um but yeah I part of me was like you know what if the buck if people just want to like sleep on the buck like for them that’s probably like a better place to be again and and even if it means like finishing fourth again I don’t I would I don’t want Boston in the second round I think the place you want to be is second or third so you at least delay having to potentially play the Celtics until the finals um but yeah the path is going to be hard or at least in theory it’s going to be hard and and then we’ll see what actually happens right with injuries and weird stuff that inevitably happens but um but yeah I don’t know I mean I get it probably bucks fan not overly excited but I feel like again knock on wood a healthy Giannis in the playoffs that kind of makes a little bit of difference I like my CH be a pretty good thing to have Giannis actually be available and I’m by no means saying well Celtics are bad now they’re not as good but I’d be very surprised to see where the Celtics finish next year because it’s the year after winning a championship so have a little less motivation during the regular season and christops poring is probably going to miss some time as well so maybe it’s I feel I feel like they got kind of glossed over like it’s five or six months right and we’re like right now like in July like like that’s like I that could be the entire rest of the year right like two months the first two and a half months of the Season like that’s a huge sh and like think about what happened with Rob Williams like Rob Williams was like I he’ll miss the first part of the season it’s like well he was never the same and KP with foot injuries leg injuries like and it was initially yeah when we learned hey he’s going to have surgery it was just kind of you know kicked under the rug of he’s going to have surgery and nothing major and then all of a sudden ah five to six months so yeah okay well and Al Horford is 38 going on 39 I think and granted Al like his they brought back Luke cornette though so yeah well and and and yeah um so in that situation maybe it’s the Sixers that you’re drawing in the second round the one good piece of news I think for the bucks as it pertains to Philly was seeing kcp go to Orlando because at one point early on Sunday there was that Phillies trying to do everything they can to get Paul George and kcp which would have been uh even more interesting to to go up against in the East so so that’s at least the good part for the bucks and and the last thing that I have for you Frank is um by the way can we shout out shout out to Bucks ownership we we just sort of take it for granted now but like yeah as of right now Famous Last Words maybe they do some salary dump that hurts the team blah blah blah but Denver like over backwards to shed money with the Reggie Jackson trade like kcp like what’s what exactly was the deal with kcp like like running and hiding from a team where he won a championship where he’s playing with yic like can we should you know should ESPN start asking about joic wanting to ask out because the front office can’t keep you know his sporting cast like oh was that are we going to hear that no probably not um but that’s like I don’t know like the cronies are notoriously not surprised you’re right yeah like and that like that to me is again like they they they got cute last year well I don’t say got cute but like they lost Bruce Brown was like oh Christian Brown and like Oh They’ll just draft these second rounders and like they’re so good at developing guys and yic makes everybody looks good and it’s like well yeah where were those guys in the playoffs right Christian Brown I think who who has generally been you know solid in the playoffs like you look at his numbers though I think he’s like a he shot like 20 20 to 22% from three the last two postseasons and I I’m impressed with his defense but like you know like you lose kcp you lose Bruce Brown like you you can’t just next man up that for the End of Time and When You’re Expecting like 75% of your like second round draft picks to be like rotation players in the playoffs like hey like Bucks fans can tell you that’s a tough road too may be better at drafting than the bucks but like I don’t think anybody’s that good at drafting that that’s just like you’re just G to be able to stay on that you know uh escalator for for the rest of time well they’re not out of it yet either because it’s going to get even more fascinating uh I suppose for the rest of this offseason but this full year because they got to pay Aaron Gordon next year and you know their roster now all of a sudden is the same thing worse actually that we said about the Bucks where it’s all these topheavy deals with joic Murray too another player they’re gonna have to pay him next summer so um you got Murray and Gordon that you’re gonna have to extend you already extended Michael Porter Jr I would assume he’s being chopped around but outside of those guys it’s all rookie deals and minimums essentially um with the exception of zek Naji who who’s there who they wish they hadn’t whose basic only value is like that he’s a mid-tier contract to be traded we could throw him into a trade yeah um so yeah that’s certainly going to be an interesting team to watch here um in the next couple weeks and it will’ll make that series with the Timberwolves last summer even more or this past summer even more interesting the last thing I was going to mention was um I’ve seen a handful of the business side reporters of the NBA pointing this out like Bobby marks I think talked about it um Ryan mcdna was saying this on NBA TV and on NBA Radio earlier too that all of these um Team presidents and owners and GMS and front office people are telling them man like this whole second apron thing like it’s ridiculous all these things were up against and I think it was Ryan MCD who had the analogy of you know three years ago you’re able to build this mansion and now two years later the league comes in and says hey this house has to come down is the feeling of it and you just keep thinking of the I think you should leave meme of like we’re trying to find who did this like you guys signed off on this CBA well and it and it’s from both sides right like the teams can be looking around being like like what was you know the cheap teams the crappy teams trying to like you know come down on the and again it’s like it’s kind of funny too because it’s not even like the big Market teams at this point like the Warriors are trying to get under the tax not just under the like aprons but like the tax um the Clippers are basically like uh f it we’re done um so like those are kind of like where always like the two biggest like targets so I mean the the second apron won right it took like a year and like those teams pretty much like thrown in the towel seemingly um but then you’re left with like the Bucks just like stiff up lipping it and paying through the nose and the tax again shout out to the to the ownership so far like repeater tax like nobody’s complaining about the repeater tax and how the Bucks can’t afford this in spite of two straight first round exits too right it’s not like they’ve been like getting like all these playoff Gates and things like that to to blunt the cost of this team so I mean and to that point especially since you know three summers ago it started with the well here we go when PJ Tucker and it’s been anything but yeah yeah I mean they’ve spent at every turn basically right like they They Carried 15 dudes like you know it’s not like they were like kind of really trying to scream up on the margins like carrying like some of the second round picks like yeah that that has some like savings benefits but you know whatever it’s not like fans are like pissed off that Chris Livingston exists or something like that you know um although sorry to say this Justin but I feel like if they had a chance to like just send Chris Livingston contract into orbit at this point I they probably would but I don’t know who would they get for well that’s the thing like they can’t I don’t I don’t know like nobody nobody’s just gonna probably take his salary at this point um but I don’t know they’re crazy if they don’t well it’s interesting let me well I know we’re like way over but this is the first day of free agency so you know the locked on gods can can give us some Grace um let me ask you this quick I I’ll answer it first you can you can take a moment to think about it three three roster spots open give me your ideal use of those three roster spots this summer right we know it’s not going to happen but like if we could wave our magic wand and I’m going to use like the list that I had made right like we can’t pick guys you know like that are clearly out of uh the budget but guys that like could reasonably had be had for a minimum um I’ll start I think Chris Dunn’s probably like the most popular yeah you know point of attack like yeah you could be a fifth starter type guy um so I’d say probably put him I would say I would say probably at the top of the list and then if I had to pick two other guys I’d probably want one that is more of like a wing like slightly larger guy um so maybe I would go in that case I’m going to look at my list again real quick but but maybe I would go with maybe Lonnie Walker um at that point and then again I think the Center piece is probably the hardest because I think it’s really hard for the bucks as long as they have the bigs that they have to like lure somebody but I think if you gave me the option of adding another big I might go precious a chew at this point he just had his qo dropped again like he’s never really stretched out to be a three-point shooter the way that kind of people hoped he would um but I think again just from a defensive versatility standpoint I think would give the Bucks a different look compared to you know what they’ve had with with Brooke and Bobby so I don’t know that that might be my um my list of of my ideal three if I could bring it up any any different anybody different that you would no um no I mean I we’re line Chris dun would be my number one um precious shua is one I would certainly be interested in uh it it doesn’t make you any younger but I I still think if you could get Nick Batum on a minimum I would be very interested in that and the other name that gets kicked around a lot um I just I think I I mean the I’ll believe it when I see it for the minimum is Gary Harris yeah well he’s obviously Surplus the requirements with kcp coming into Orlando um I might actually in for a big man I might might take Xavier Tilman over yeah precious um I mean again not that he was amazing for the Celtics or something like that but he can gives you some mobility and yeah he’s like big beefy can hit down can knock down a three at times um so I might put him on the list um but yeah I don’t know I mean like lots of other kind of potential guys you know it it’s I think think I saw something that like was for see that Den witty might be going back to LA Den witty dwit is weird because like he’s never been an efficient scorer his three-o percentage is never as high as you want it to be but his kind of like peripheral stuff like his kind of like ENC Court off for impact stuff is always pretty good and I don’t know I think he’s like 31 um I don’t know like Again part of me also just kind of Wonders like if you add like a very much like a defensive oriented guard right like you know Pat Bev is kind of like the the default there but like Chris Dunn and dsj like Dennis Smith Jr like they’re also not like creators on the ball really per se so I do kind of Wonder you know that is something that clearly especially when Dame was hurt they really missed right having a guy at the backup point guard that could actually do some of that so I kind of Wonder like you know if you said Chris Dunn was your fifth starter yeah he can bring the ball up um you know he was previously a point guard in a former life uh but you know would you want to add somebody that that is ostensively more of a you know in offensive initiator type guy so you’re not just solely relying on on Dame but um but I don’t know yeah shout us out shout shout out in the YouTube comments slash and Twitter who your who your ideal three would be um if it doesn’t depress you too much yeah it’s just it’s gonna end up being pep Everly Jay Crowder and Seth Curry are the three uh well I suppose we’ll continue to wait on the Paul George news but unfortunately it looks like he’s headed to uh Philly and it is it’s going to be an interesting off season for the bucks for all the reasons that we laid out here um I suppose we didn’t really provide a definitive answer on do the Bucks have to move Brooke like is that really the only bullet that you have left to play here and that’s that’s the tough part about the offseason for everything that we went through maybe but like to that last point that you made about the the ownership paying the tax habitually paying the tax and this team just kind of sticking with the nah we’re we’re we’re gonna keep it together as best we can and we think if we’re healthy we’ll break through that’s the other tough part about it is I don’t know about taking a step back because you know to your point of it’s definitely taking a step back in the regular season the absence of a a brook type um there’s definitely a value ad in the postseason but as we just mentioned with those teams getting better around you like are you looking at a scenario as crazy as it as it is to suggest if you make a move like that and it’s even more tinkering of like man they could be a playing tournament team next year I’m not emotionally ready to Grapple with that yet Justin um so uh so let’s just put a pin in that one for now uh let’s let’s let uh free agency marinate a little bit cross our fingers for you know Chris Dunn and some of these again it’s kind of it’s kind of sad that Chris Dunn is like this dream Target but um it is what F fans are viewing Chris Dunn like the Sixers fans are viewing Paul George hey hey we’ve already got all our all our kind of big big ticket guys like we don’t we don’t need Paul George Justin like yeah we can we can focus on more modest uh modest things we’ve got our young our young developmental stars that we can watch in summer league that are going to eventually be the the next phase uh of of buck contention lead the next phase of buck contention with Giannis like we’re going glass half full today it’s the first day of I yeah I mean since well I won’t end on that note I was gonna say since we ended on the man this is what we’re we’re left with it reminded me of a conversation I had in the spring before one of those first round on games and I won’t name who it was with but they had said you remember when the playoffs were fun ah well put you know Yan hey Giannis got through uh an exhibition 15 minutes of exhibition basketball this week so shout out to him for that he’s only got to get through uh the summer in 82 games uh and then hopefully we can used to seeing Giannis wearing a tank top in basketball basketball shorts rather than uh you know a hoodie and and street clothes in the playoffs again wouldn’t that be nice uh it seems like a good spot to wrap it up there we’ll we’ll uh keep our eyes open for obviously the Paul George news because that seems like that’s going to be the big Domino for everything else to start to trickle out and maybe some trades to start to happen um once Philly or any other team knows what they have there and what they can do so uh we’ll be back once again tomorrow with I’m assuming the Fallout from possibly a Paul George signing and any other moves that we’ve seen made by Eastern Conference teams for Frank I’m Justin we’ll talk to you once again tomorrow on lock on bucks