College football isn’t DOOMED (yet)

On the latest episode of The Solid Verbal podcast, we dive into the growing perception that too many dramatic changes to the sport, including the transfer portal, an expanding College Football Playoff, and constant realignment, especially within the Big Ten and SEC, is quickly killing off much of what longtime college football fans love about the sport. Be it the lost rivalries, regular season games taking on different meaning, players able to move between teams freely, we talk about the changes and what they may mean both in the short and long term, and then evaluate how optimistic or pessimistic we feel about the health of the sport. What do you think?
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Dan Rubenstein you see this shirt I’m wearing USA good old us OFA man 2-0 over Bolivia game one of the Copa America on Sunday evening felt really good yeah nice really good this is a college football show mind you but got to support the team here on the podcast I’m ty he’s Dan welcome back where’ they play the game was it AT&T played the game in Arlington yeah at that’s college football is there have been national championships in that Stadium there have I heard I I mean apparently the Ohio State Oregon one from early 2015 I imagined it apparently it didn’t happen correct correct yeah and they got the turf sorted I believe the first game that they played there the turf was not like they just rolled it in off the truck a few days before they started playing great and so the roots didn’t I don’t know if you’ve ever had sod but you know like the roots got to like anchor otherwise got to take hold yeah yeah so it seemed like that was a little bit better and there weren’t any injuries or anything to speak of so hey sorry for the quick Interruption but it’d be incredible if you considered subscribing to the solid verbal YouTube channel right down below good news on that front good news on this front hey we get to talk college football welcome one welcome all thank you for tuning back into the show hit follow hit subscribe wherever it is you get your podcasts if you are a super verbal or just want to support what Dan and I do go on over to verbal. comom just mosy on over check out what we have to offer we’ve been deep in the lab trying to to put together some of our inseason benefit tiers which at some point probably towards the latter half of July early part of August we’ll flip on and you’ll see what we’ve got in store for all y’all this coming 2024 college football season Dan yeah in the meantime though we’re gearing up to do previews which is going to happen next month in the good month of July some point after July 4th stay tuned for that in the interim though you you made a really interesting comment to me and I was hoping maybe you could expand on it a little bit okay you and I are both in this unique situation where people ask us when we’re out and about like what do you do what is that you do and I think over the years we found new and inventive ways to mention that we do the podcast thing without being like too over the top about doing the podcast thing yeah but inevitably when it comes time to talk about college football we find ourselves getting the same questions about the State of Affairs in 2024 there’s been a lot of change over the last couple seasons and so naturally not everybody follows it as closely as you or I or the people listening to this at home we tend to get a lot of the same questions what does it mean Dan what does all this mean what are your thoughts on where things are headed there’s a lot of Doomsday scenarios floating around out there and so hopefully today well you can expand a little bit more on yeah your thought process here but hopefully today we can go through that thought experiment and talk it out in front of the verer hood I’ll I’ll add the first thing that people ask me when they find out what we do for a living is yeah but what about in June like you do like once a month in the off seon or once a week I’m like no no right what do you talk about like well sometimes It’s Tricky but in this specific instance every time I have a conversation about college football especially around now uh you know April May June this year specifically it’s well I guess you got like portal stuff to talk about and nil and realignments new and you know 12 team playoff and things going one to 14 teams and inevitably people come to a some sort of solu not some sort of uh conclusion excuse me that like man one of those things would be a lot to deal with uh three four five things at the same time I don’t know I don’t know and then like people will on the other side like oh new matchups with realignment that’s kind of interesting and cool and like well guys moving around the sport I guess you know it’s really good for the players in a lot of instances but it’s tough in this regard like there is like a pros and cons push and pull to all of the changes in the sport and you know you see it online you see it in conversations you have with people in real life that faces darken faces moods darken is probably the better way to put it that you’re just like I don’t man it’s just going to be I guess I’ll just watch Illinois right if I’m talking to which I do my friend Brian this past weekend or like I guess I’ll just you know I’ll watch USC games and it’s kind of interesting or I’ll watch you know Texas Tech games uh or like I just wait and see see how we like it but man that’s a lot new and you you do get that like that’s what I wanted to do with you because I I love so many more aspects of this sport than I am worried about even still with all of the changes but I I want to see if we can get to some sort of interesting place with uh you know if something new is stupid if it’s not stupid if it’s slightly stupid shout out to the band Slightly Stupid legendary in the Southern California scene um or if it’s not you know if it’s actually like legit good and so I I I want to sort of have this powow this is our Davos tie this is our G7 whatever you want to call it sure uh ahead of like preview season start soon and we’ve been you know looking at certain teams with their outlooks and whether they can hit ceilings and stuff but I don’t know I think this is an important conversation uh and on top of that look we we did the June two-part Q&A episode a couple weeks ago now yeah and you’ll remember the question we got from one of our patreon re Ballers about where are you at from a motivation standpoint with all these changes CU it is a lot right it doesn’t matter what thing you’re talking about this many structural changes all at once is a lot it’s a lot to try and understand and compute and for people who aren’t in this the way you and I are some of the conversations I’ve had with people they just outright forgot about some of the stuff that’s gone on in this office totally completely true and I think that’s totally normal I don’t expect that everybody is a sickle like you and I or doing this for a living like you and I and so it is a necessary dose of reality that I think brings us to this point and the more to the point I was making a second ago the question that we got about are you more or less motivated given all the changes has really been bounced around in my head it’s really been bounced around in my head and I remember that question shout out HCB who is the name of the gentleman that asked it it bounces around in my head every single time I have a conversation like the one you just described right because I can’t tell right away if somebody is more or less motivated to watch the sports so we’re not going to pump Sunshine as much today is just I think have a conversation sure with respect to how we’re feeling about this and we’re not going to tell you how to feel but if we can help inform you one way or another that’s I think a goal for us here I agree where do you want to start well I mean I’m just thinking to some of the conversations I’ve had with folks and I think inevitably it is the expanded playoff that comes up first by the way I love when you turn into Senator Tai and call people folks folks I I talk to folks across this great state and they’re all saying the same thing blah blah I gave a State of the Union Address you know this I know I love Senator Ty I say that genuinely uh the expanded playoff sure the expanded playoff is the one that comes up most frequently for me I suspect the Oregon thing to the Big 10 is what comes up most frequently for you is that accurate yeah big 10 expansion in general because this is where I am in the Chicago BBS yeah what are people saying about the Big 10 expansion in your neck of the woods what what is kind of the sentiment among those folks there it is uh they say the same thing they say oh that’s right weird like they are reminded that there are going to be four new teams in the Big 10 and then I in addition like also SEC ACC uh and Big 12 are also shifting things around uh not to mentioned G5 conferences are new look every year it seems and so that’s the first reaction that’s right weird but kind of cool and this is when I say like yeah I can kind of drive to a bunch of Oregon games if I really wanted to uh and so that’s generally the feeling it’s not passing judgment on like oh it’s going to be so much harder or we’re going to have it so much harder you know going out to the West Coast it’s it’s more just like weird weird still and the season starts what in like um two months something like that so that’s the reaction I get and I I am you know I’m very much on record saying that I the the death of West Coast Football in that you know grouping all those major programs out west and westish is a tragedy for the sport so that to me is just like extremely stupid that the sports the region whatever couldn’t get it figured out there are a number of factors why they couldn’t but in terms of realignment and if this will Doom the sport I say likely not likely not because the only thing that the sport has is a full history of constant change and so this is not going to last maybe there will be more teams in a bunch of conferences maybe things will split up and make a little bit more sense regionally but I don’t get the sense in speaking to people online in real life wherever that they’re convinced that because the Big 10 is adding teams the SEC is adding teams you know maybe there’s probably more rightful dorismar are trying to get out but I don’t get the sense that people people’s habits with their fandom and the sport are going to shift dramatically and on the same token you do get that conversation like oh we get new interesting big matchups potentially when you know Wisconsin USC face each other Ohio State Oregon you know Michigan Washington if if and when Washington you know pops back up to to National Power status like that that to me is uh a positive spin that I think a lot of people have I actually think that’s my spin too okay I think that’s my spin I think that’s how generally I feel about this we unfortunately given our large audience still do not have enough sway to prevent college football and the business Minds behind it from killing off one whole traditional conference the pack 12h we would have saved it if we could have but that is clearly not in our pay grade but as things stand I don’t see a whole lot from a realignment standpoint that is going to you mentioned the word habit that is going to change my habits and that was going to be my next question for you what would it take to change those habits and to make people feel differently about it because I and I say that again mindful of the fact that I know I’ve had conversations over the last 6 months with people who genuinely don’t remember that any of this happened yep and that doesn’t make them any less of a fan it’s just a lot to try and keep track of especially over the last 24 months or so sure and so I’ve often wondered what would it take to really like wake up sheeple what are we doing here what is it going to take for you to break that habit or to feel differently truly feel differently about this sport just within the context of conference reignment because right now it doesn’t it like it doesn’t feel like it makes sense it doesn’t feel not fully real yet because we haven’t started this season and we’ve had realignments over the course of the past you know 15 years or so in major conferences but to this degree dramatic with the size of programs that are moving around it’s not real until it’s you know Texas Georgia as a conference game it’s not real until it’s USC Maryland or what ever as a conference game that’s when it becomes a conversation I think the vast majority of people who follow college football will look at the schedule on a week- toe basis and they will see more big games and they will view it more as a television product the way you have described for eons on this show for as long as I have known you youve talked about college football as an entertainment product and a TV show not necessarily because you want that to be the case but that is the reality in which we have found ourselves with the sport over the last 15 years that’s just it’s gone more in that direction so I think most people will come at it from that standpoint there will be some Nostalgia certainly if you’re an Oregon State if you’re a Washington State fan if you’re a school like a Stanford or a cal or who knows whoever else that is going to be horribly displaced and not necessarily rewarded financially for it I understand coming at this from a different perspective but I think the vast majority of the people who listen to our show who have rooted for some of those power teams are going to look at the schedule on a Saturday and be like oh cool I like these games there are more good games to pick from that being said we also have a lot of folks Senator Ty add it again Senator Tai who appreciate the value and appreciate the competitiveness and the playoff and everything that goes along with power four but also their first roting preference is a G5 School sure they like the G5 schools now thankfully with the expanded playoff they’ve given a golden ticket to some G5 team to get in every year maybe there will be years where there’s two I doubt it unless there is some incredible force of the universe working in favor of the G5 they will probably Tony petiti and Greg seni will probably try to limit their access as much as humanly possible that’s just reality yeah that said so I I do wonder how those fans feel and I feel like from their standpoint it’s less about the realignment and more about the Sensation that the gap between the halves and the Have Nots has widened further and shows no signs of decelerating anytime soon that I think is like the true what was the Doom word you Ed before what Doris Doris that’s the Doris in this argument sure the Doris in this argument is not necessarily if you root for Oregon Ohio State Texas most of the schools we talk about on a week- toe basis the Doomer ism is if you’re uh an Ohio fan if you’re a Tain yeah Tain fan like Tain might not even be the best example but if you root for one of those G5 schools I think it’s hard to look at this and not feel like you’re sl slly being shouldered out of the conversation I think there’s going to be a lot of shouldering I think you can look at every single tier within the sport every single tier within every conference and if you are adding say what you will Texas Oklahoma say what you will about you know the LA schools Wasington Oregon you are adding quality to the major conferences you are adding depending on how you feel about SMU Stanford uh and Cal you’re adding at you know usually okay programs so I think it’s just expanding what already exists in the ACC in the middle uh the Big 12 is adding quality programs in the Arizona schools and Utah Colorado TBD um but what I think people when they think okay we’re going to have more interesting matchups adding these teams to our conference the teams that perhaps are used to being in that six and six seven and fiveish range are not going to be super keen on oh we’ve added quality team now we’re going 4 and eight more often than we so I think you talk about being shouldered out some of the fans of those teams that are you know used to competing for B spots or whatever like I think that the tenor of a lot of teams seasons and program health is going to change and pretty quickly I also think one of the things you mentioned is true though with the more interesting matchups it’s the novelty is going to wear off and as novel as every that everything that’s happening in the sport whether it’s expansion portal whatever the fact that Wisconsin is going to play Washington or Texas is going to play South Carolina whatever um it’s going to wear off there people are just going to get used to the reality and we had the the novelty of a four team playoff and like interest and ratings and conversation just slowly declined over time as you know maybe that’s a product of the same teams playing against each other when you had like the Alabama Clemson stretch or Georgia playing for it a couple years in a row that I I think college football fans in general basically impossible to paint with a wide swath and a large brush but like we as a community appreciate new we we like upsets we like you know a bunch of different things that we’re not used to seeing and we’re just going to get used to seeing a new look sec we’re going to get used to seeing a new look big 10 and the novelty of new matchups just becomes matchups and I wonder how quickly that happens well the no the novelty of new teams and new places is something that will be there this year and probably next and I think that part of it will wear off quickly I disagree that the good matchup side of that is going to wear off okay because these are games on campus maybe the stuff that happens during the playoffs in the expanded playoff field and playing those games on neutral sides maybe that will become old hat sooner than later because there is part of that that feels very corporate but there’s nothing like a big-time college football matchup on a Sunday in SE September on a sprawling campus that’s loud as hell it doesn’t matter what those two teams are that part has never gotten old in the history of college football so I I disagree from that standpoint however there are certainly aspects of this that I think right now everything is kind of shiny and new and maybe you hate it maybe you don’t but it’s it’s very easy to look at everything as if it’s like the biggest novelty in the sport well okay what what would would you consider to be generically speaking a big time matchup top 15 top 20 certainly you have to see numbers next to each School the TV Graphics yeah I’d say top 25 two two top 25 matchups that’s usually the lens through which I am looking at what I’d consider a big game when we put together our show docs during the season yeah top 25 matchup okay so but you’re also thinking like it’s top 25 but hopefully between two more recognizable Brands right that recognizable Brands yeah right you’ll have a a top 25 Michigan Oregon game you’ll have a top 25 Oklahoma LSU game or something like that and seeing those two schools next to each other and it’s 17 versus 9 what I wonder is I suspect and I know this from experience and from a little bit of guessing that like the the way people consume the sport is one they have to watch their team’s game and then two depending on what time it’s kicking off they’ll watch what they perceive to be the biggest national game of the weekend that not everybody has you know four screens going at the same time not everybody’s watching from uh you know noon to 1:00 a.m. or something like that they View College Football if they’re not only watching their team they’re watching their team and if they happen to be around you know a big game that kicks off at you know 8 Eastern or something or 3:30 Eastern if it’s an SEC game so what I wonder is what does that mean when you have so many perceived big new interesting matchups but people still have their lives right so what you’re referring to is in effect does more equal more right that like are you more likely to cancel your real life touching grass plans because number 21 Michigan state is playing number 23 UCLA like or number nine number seven number 15 number 11 whatever like I I think there’s a threshold that people are going to have to to figure out and ultimately what I think is it’s going to not change like I think we have the novelty of a year or two and then it’s just I am interested or I am not interested and the fact that we have this realignment ultimately in the long term will not change my habits I that’s what I think I you know uh and you’re going to have more big 10 and SEC teams this brings me to another point so if the top 25 has now becomes more populated with big 10 and SEC teams which makes sense because these conferences are probably going to be the most respect Ed because of their quality and depth does that even further turn people against big big 10 team big big 10 games in big SEC games because also what we get with adding Texas Oklahoma adding Oregon Washington USC UCLA is you’re sort of muddying up the top of these conferences in terms of who middle tier teams or whoever is shooting for right like if you find out that Kansas is up 10 on Texas in Austin with 11 minutes left or something you’re like oh we might have a spicy upset Brewing because everybody’s gun you have like The Narrative of everybody gunning for like the top tier Powers you know for Pete Carrol’s USC or Chip Kelly’s Oregon or Nick sabin’s Alabama and then you start muddying what what makes up that that you know a tier team that you’re gunning for it makes it more difficult to sell I think on Saturdays sometimes you’re just like well LSU might be upset but like are they the best team in the SEC do I feel strong things about LSU because they’ve won the conference four years in a row and might lose to you know Kentucky or something like that like I feel like there’s going to be a mudded narrative shift when you don’t have clear Alphas Alpha I know you put what alpha male next to your Twitter handle that’s the thing you do always have to um but when you lose that like clear storyline is that not you I was positive that was you maybe you just give off alpha male energy idiots keep going I’m sorry no my my broader point is I think it’ll be tougher in in with some teams right like you know the Big 10 Ohio State and Michigan are still going to be there we don’t quite know what Oregon’s going to do and how they’re going to to find themselves in the hierarchy of the Big 10 same for Texas and Oklahoma but like you lose Jim Harbaugh you lose Nick Sabin and so I think becomes more difficult to sort of figure out how you feel about watching certain games does that make sense well it does make sense and you you sort of tangentially brought up something that I was going to go to next and I think it’s a it’s a good segue for it so I think one point about this that I am most interested in seeing develop over the next couple seasons is exactly what you described in passing and that is what will the sentiment be among hardcore casual hobbyist college football fans with respect to the Big 10 in the SEC because we have seen you know we’ve been doing this for a long time now we have seen I think a pretty drastic shift in public sentiment against the networks yeah against the likes of ESPN and fox because many folks rightly or wrongly believed that they were the Powers behind changing college football in this way and ESPN more so than Fox just because of their history with the sport and game day and the visibility of their personalities yeah continue and so I wonder if for a long time it has been you play an SEC team you want to take out the SEC I haven’t felt quite that sentiment with respect to the Big 10 with respect to really any other conference it’s just been the SEC because the SEC has almost branded itself as A Cut Above mhm and it has been the toughest conference to their credit I understand where that’s coming from but now in this new media landscape where it is very clearly a two-horse race to be the alpha males of the college football conference alignment structure whatever word we’re using here I feel like you’re going to have more and more people out there who want to root against those unless your team plays in those conferences MH just some of what I’ve picked up some of the notes yeah from the kind folk around this great land I have detected a real almost animus towards those two conferences in particular of course and especially so after the news came out about oh we’re going to expand it to 14 now Dennis DOD was writing articles about how Tony petiti and Greg sanki are doing their best to try and assert some dominance here over the college football land Escape I think that will have a KnockOn effect I think it’ll take a little bit of time for people to get there but it wouldn’t surprise me in time if people start hating on the Big 10 the way they have hated on the SEC for all these years oh I think it’s we’re already there those are going to be the two conferences that have a Target on their back for sure sort of a build on what you were saying but I I think that’s where we’re headed if we’re not already there and the other thing is and we’ve talked about this before is the the issue of scarcity that like people are excited and I think right so and I’m excited about this like more good matchups more quality matchups cuz you’re adding quality to a bunch of different conferences but if the or the Big 10 in particular because of the size of those conferences and the teams that they’re adding if they’re every week offering you a top 20 matchup I mean you don’t celebrate your birthday every month right there is something fun about that what we get to watch does not happen every week you know a top five matchup does not happen every week a top 10 matchup does not happen every every week and so if you are offering somebody that you three of those seven of those every week between a bunch of different conferences and I don’t know if math definitely does not bear that out but if you’re offering that people more to people more often yes in the short term I believe people will be more excited about the new novel interesting matchups but like if you’re weighing watching a big game at 3:30 Eastern versus meeting buddies somewhere you know to play golf Al for whatever and you’re like well this happens every week so yeah I can miss this number 17 versus number 13 matchup because I know next week when I turn on my TV I’m just going to get Penn State UCLA in the top 20 or something like that because it’s going to happen so much more often because those conferences are going to be rightfully or wrongfully respected in the polls a little bit more that like those types of matchups will go from interesting and new to not especially special I hear you let me let me shift a little bit yeah on the topic of having conversations with fans I had a conversation this weekend with my 14-year-old nephew nice always a very weird stage in life when your nieces and nephews or in some cases your Offspring get old enough to have real conversations about sports yeah they know just as much as you do really makes you feel old it did on Saturday Saturday but we had a conversation about the expanded playoff and his question to me was hey what is what is what is new what is going on I’ve seen a lot about this my friends have talked about it what is new and I mentioned the expanded playoff and the reaction was oh that’s cool that’s cool I’m real curious to see a few years down the line if people still feel like that’s a cool thing because you bring up the point of scarcity mhm many have brought up the point about diluting the regular season which has long been the crown jeel of college football these games on campus these big rivalries that make the sport tick etc etc and also I think with the conference realignment with some of these conferences getting a lot stronger it will have an effect on win loss records you will have a conversation at some point whether an 8-4 team belongs in the playoff not because their record’s eight and4 but maybe because because they play in the SEC and they played a brutal schedule right the committee will take that into account maybe 9 and3 becomes a new 10 and two for some of these programs that are used to winning a certain number of games but now the schedule for everybody gets a little bit harder frankly I don’t know how that’s going to go over now I’ve said for years in this show when the playoff is expanded we knew it was going to expand it was always a matter of when not if when the playoff expands qualifying for for the field 12 14 however many teams it ends up being qualifying into the playoff will be the new threshold by which we measure coaching success not so much what you’re doing during the regular season that obviously has an effect as well but are you making the playoff and once you get there are you able to win games or at least look competitive once you arrive I think that is going to be the new measuring stick and I’m curious if records look a little bit weaker than they have in the past I’m curious with it being easier to get into the playoff maybe with an 8 and4 I don’t know depends on the year I’m curious with all of these factors now playing a pretty significant role in a way that we didn’t see five years ago yeah if that will affect people’s perceptions of their own teams if they will feel better about a 9 and3 season if it will be disappointing a 9 and3 season knowing that the schedule’s going to be harder knowing that the pathway into the playoff like you could play it both ways you can get in the playoff and maybe have a worse record whereas before you could have a great record and still not get it it it feels like they almost cancel out to me I’m just I’m curious to see what kind of effect that has on the public yeah the the conversation since the announcement of the expansion has been like oh more teams are going to be in it come November whatever right that there’s going to be 17 teams that like feel like they have a shot what what does that mean I have no idea I know that my gut says you may think 17 or 19 or 22 or 14 teams or whatever have a shot but all things being equal it’s going to be the Big 10 team getting in going be the SEC team getting in let me ask you a question on that point yes you know the energy level around college football fandom sure every year it’s a cycle we see it in downloads we see it in questions we see it in YouTube comments it has been this way every year since we started doing this show everybody is undefeated in August and through a good chunk of September MH but once teams start getting into their conference schedules usually once you get into around the mid October time frame that’s when you start to see interest Peter out a little bit MH do you think that pattern is going to hold this season knowing that more teams will be available come the start of November to potentially make that playoff right knowing that even if you’re not maybe in that conversation teams are going to have games against other Playoff hopefuls that are meaningful for those fan bases right maybe your team at that point is I don’t know four and six but you’re playing a team that’s potentially looking to get into the playoff and you can play spoiler right do you think that the interest will stretch out deeper into the season among people who listen to this show who watch the sport because the playoff now has that wider pathway in and because it’s certain certainly at least to start is a bit of a novelty given all the changes we’ve seen okay so I think interest This Year yes maybe next year yes once again um the interesting thing about more teams being in it late is fans of that number 19 team are still watching the games right there’s they still have an incredible reason to watch whether or not there’s a 12 team playoff or not right if you’re if your team is 8-2 in November or whatever and you are you know the number 15 team or the number nine team or what in the country you’re still watching those games because you’re rooting for a good team and you’re likely playing a rival at the end of the year you’re heading into the Rival rep portion of the schedule so you’re not the the interest in your team is not going to change whether you are thinking that you have a chance to go to a 14 four team playoff or a 12 team playoff I think the the people who lose interest in the sport as the season goes on are the ones when Mel Tucker gets fired at 1:00 a.m. and fewer Michigan State Fe people suddenly care about the season right where there’s some sort of dramatic change the starting quarterback you know tears an ACL and it’s just a bunch of freshman and Walk-Ons and you just have this sense that like this is not going to end well this season is going to be painful to watch and so I am watching less game day I’m listening to less of the solid verbal I am you know reading fewer things on the athletic whatever that your just general consumption is going to change because you feel as if all hope is lost right um late September or something so I think there will be more interest in games that perhaps didn’t have a lot of interest that if you are the number 14 team and number 12 is playing and losing late and you feel like you can you can hop over or something like that yeah I think you’ll you’ll be more interested in games that perhaps in previous Seasons you weren’t interested in but I I still think this is a sport primarily defined by people rooting for their teams and catching other games if timing works out like I think we overstate how many people are just like Die Hard college football fans that watch all day and care about a ton of teams and care about a ton of narratives well because those are our people right these are our people right and that’s and that’s who I am that’s who I’ve been for a long time and there’s a lot of us out there but in terms of general population the way people watch the sport and care about the sport yeah if you’ve got a top 20 program that you root for you’re going to keep watching and if you root for a program that is catastrophically bad you might stop watching in October or November and that’s okay hope is lost and you pick us up again next summer and that’s that’s how I generally feel that like while more teams have hope I don’t know if it appreciably changes how many people truly care in November right yeah and this is why we do the window of opportunity during the season of course because you’re you know not everybody is us we have a lot of a lot of different levels of fandom that pass through these Gates here yeah on a given year and we we’re trying to speak to all of those bases I’m curious though I’m this is sort of my question dour for the ver baller Hood if you were to write in or hit us up on socials or if you’re in our Discord of re balls.com I’m I’m curious to get your sense for whether or not the interest level will be as high late in the season or higher at the end of this season than it’s been in the past for you I think this season yeah I know you’re asking other people for their opinion I’m here if you root for a team like a Purdue or you know and not to throw Purdue but pit like some teams that probably will not be in the playoff conversation but certainly will’ll have an opportunity to play big games down the stretch right I’m just wondering if this at least initially is something of a rising tide that lifts all the boats yeah I I think there there’s going to be that novelty um yeah I I think people will listen to the show or whatever your preferred podcast or TV show or whatever because you want to hear about what the hosts have to say about your team if it’s after a big win if it’s after a big loss and you’re able to stomach that conversation about you know your team blowing a game late or something like that there’s you still get that like sense of listening to a conversation about your team but I I think the drop off still comes from people who a feel like their season is hopeless or B I don’t like Dan Dan has gotten on my nerves I tried for six weeks for nine weeks to see if he could turn it around but I’m just not a Dan guy Tai seems handsome and witty but I’m not a Dan guy so those are the people who drop off in my my VI I love the people that get us mixed up by the way yeah that’s my favorite I don’t even need glasses there’s not even a prescription in these bad boys but because we’re both handsome dudes with dark hair I feel like I had to differentiate differentiate yeah here here’s another topic that comes up often when I’m talking with the folks out in the great land across this great state I’m talking to Sal real college football fans right yeah I get I get the it’s not so much a question it’s more of a rhetorical question or comment what are we going to do about transfer portal what are we going to do about out of control what are we yeah out of control what are we going to do about these players getting paid which of course is a load of question it’s not even really a question and most of the time when I get that you kind of know right out of the shoot where the person is coming from with that statement they’re not in favor of it right um I’ve really struggled with that yeah if I’m being honest here with everybody I’ve really struggled with explaining that in a way that isn’t completely off-putting right and that doesn’t mean I’m using like profanity but it does mean that I don’t think there’s a good way to sugarcoat it I think it is a good thing for the players I think the players are are are long overdue to get their fair share this has been in the works for a while it is OB obviously accelerated it has changed the game maybe more so than any of the structural stuff that you and I have just described yeah players being able to get money in tandem with them being able to move about freely is truly the biggest earthquake we’ve seen in this sport in a good long time so I truly believe that I think you and I are like-minded in that respect we believe they are they are they are certainly within their right to be paid and be compensated and get some slice of the pie which is both dipping into the nil question and the portal question but yes exactly so I think we believe that where I struggle though is is there a way to kind of bring this into balance is there a way to bring this into balance where it’s not just use Ohio State as an example where it’s not just the teams with the most money that are buying off the best players and the rest of the sport is going to suffer like we get the question often about the Super League mhm what will it take or is it possible that we have a super league of 20 of 40 teams in college football I don’t know if that’s ever going to happen I’m skeptical that it will but for all intents and purposes if you’ve only got a handful of programs that have all the money and start buying off the best players don’t you kind of create that informally anyway sure I struggle with how to explain that to people as both a good thing for the players as well as a good thing for the sport long term I’ve never had a good answer to that question maybe you’re different than me you’re more eloquent with your speech and better at explaining these complicated Concepts in my PE brain I cannot figure out a good way to explain that that doesn’t turn people away okay so I can help um because I have this conversation a lot like you do and here is what I have found when talking to some folks across this great state nobody likes the transfer portal no they don’t nobody likes the transfer portal in terms of college football fans or in terms of sports fans who tune in for big games or who like watching their alma mater but don’t stay locked into the sports rhythms the sine wave of the sport I took enough math to know what a S Wave is um I didn’t take a ton of math Ty that’s the extent of my sine wave knowledge continue went went to a state school never took calculus did okay and AP Stat some people call it stats I think we had this conversation many moons ago but nobody likes transfer portal now when you say it’s good for the players the the issue I would take with that is I think it’s good for some players it’s good for some players yeah that’s fair depending on who you are as a player yeah that that is Meaningful there’s a lot there’s a lot of false promises out there too in the transfer portal and that’s where being smart and having smart Associates and people around you a good supportive team around you can really pay some dividends because yeah I mean look there’s already plenty of examples of guys going in the portal maybe being promised riches or maybe just playing time right and it’s been a bit of a coin flip frankly they don’t all work out and at least in that aspect yeah it’s not good for not good for every player right so nobody likes the transfer portal and that there’s the asteris the asterisk is basically like yes if you root for a team that has a ton of money that succeeds more than fails in terms of building a roster through the portal or addressing needs through the portal I as an Oregon fan have seen Oregon use the portal to great effect great success you as an Notre Dame fan similar Michigan um didn’t win a National Championship because of it but they certainly plugged holes and created depth with quality guys on the offensive line on defense like they did a great job addressing needs and building depth and ended up winning a national championship at least partly because of it but even Michigan fans even Oregon fans even Notre Dame fans whoever Old Miss fans whove succeeded wildly Florida State fans like they’ll say yeah it’s great we got these guys but it’s doesn’t seem like a fun way to have a sport and I I understand why when we say some players right that like if you are suddenly an allconference player who is making no money and has an opportunity to dramatically change your bank account by going elsewhere because of what you’ve accomplished and you don’t feel like your school has the me means or has the desire or whatever they’re happy to have you below market rate whatever like yeah that’s a great thing for that specific player but for the sport having your having like these dramatic swings in quality for teams and losing track of who’s where whether you’re a regional fan specific only to a team watching some national games that like you and I were having a conversation about what Big 10 quarterbacks we mentioned Gavin whimet at Ruckers a couple weeks ago and we both whiffed and forgetting that Gavin whim is now going to be like a backup at Kentucky right like okay like all we do is pay attention to the sport every day all year long Dan I watched that Ruckers spring game the full way through or at least whatever was available online I watched it start to finish everything I could find because we did a show about it yeah we talked about Cav whims at yeah I’ll I’ll be the first to admit I whiffed too I totally whiffed I had no idea he went to Kentucky there’s too much that’s changing and to your point that you’ve made for so long as well like so much of what you said over the years I feel like has come true to your credit it’s a hard sport to get into it’s a hard sport to just sort of happen upon and get into because so much is changing every year not the least of which is all the structural BS that we’ve been discussing here but players changing teams so readily in the off season in some cases where people like you and I don’t even detect it that’s really hard to keep track of and really hard to be a fan of um and develop any kind of loyalty you know it becomes very transactional I I find myself telling fans of teams about their new transfers because they were unaware I have had conversations with a Wisconsin fan and they’ll be like man they were so shaky at quarterback what do you think this year like are these guys going to get better one not knowing Tanner morai is gone two not knowing TVD came in from Miami and so fans of their own team and this these are very specific examples I’m not saying Wisconsin fans are not following Wisconsin football but I’m just saying this has happened for multiple oh yeah you know team people that root for teams but don’t pay attention between January and August maybe they pick up a magazine maybe they listen to a podcast maybe they come across something in a newspaper website whatever and then they learn that Miami’s quarterback transferred in and had a good stretch in 2021 or whatever so that to me is is sort of the difficulty with the portal is it makes it more difficult to be a fan you have to lock in so much more often and this not a a horrible problem to have if you’re a fan of whatever team of Washington state or Cal or something but you you’re there’s a disconnect that I don’t think existed and college football is to me driven so much by like my identity is tied in with my history as a Notre Dame fan my history as a Florida fan or whatever and if players are coming and going then it feels more than ever like you’re rooting for laundry that you’re just like oh now this Arkansas dude is the safety and this South Carolina state guy is playing right tackle like so it feels as if your team is more of a vehicle than a place and that’s a bummer to I think a lot of people again my experience may not be your experience and I’m speaking to listeners right now that like no that’s not my experience at all that’s not the experience of me and my friends and for that yeah that’s totally possible but in my experience the transfer portal has an approval rating of about 3% like Nate silver is very worried about transfer portals polling right now um it’s got the lowest Q rating in the world right now and maybe that’s because college football is inherently pretty anti- player right because we’re just we root for institutions like that’s what we do in the sport we ro we’re not you know fans of like the 1998 team specifically because we love the defensive line we’re a fan of Nebraska yeah this isn’t the NBA where you root for personality you see faces you they’re on your team for nine years or whatever so it’s a sport that’s at at its core you’re rooting for institutions and I think this just emphasizes that more and that’s sad because I think the idea of rooting for players and you know following along with the players’s journey from like a special teamer to a rotation guy to a starter for a couple years like that helped form a lot of people so I I I hold conflicting views that like yeah me too I am for the ability for players to find a better fit for themselves both competitively and financially but like overwhelmingly I have to listen to people who like the sport who say this makes it less fun and so yeah I don’t know what the long-term solution is going to be Beyond like getting things down on paper right getting you know contracts and employment and everything like that to sort of normalize or optimize whatever the word is the idea of we like players who stick around that we get to know and that’s sort of the tradeoff for the money I’m glad you brought that up there is one tentacle of this that I do believe can be reasonably solved okay and it is not mass player movement but maybe the only thing that has a lower Q rating than the transfer portal is bull opt outs sure people hate bull opt outs they hate it even though the bull games are exhibition games there is this sense that it’s even more of a meaningless exhibition game than before because so many of the players are not playing in it yeah people have real resentment towards that right now as a thing that players can do I think the irony is that in order for that to be solved we almost have to go further down the path of player compensation further down the path of as you said putting it down on paper further down the path of there being even more money available to players what I think happens in due time and why I think they can and will solve this at some point in the future I’m not saying this year or next year but it’s I think a lot of this is going to be solved by the way I’m very optimistic I don’t know what it means for TV ratings but continue I’m optimistic that a lot of what als’s college football in terms of perception can be solved I I think the bull opt outs thing can be because if we come to a point in time and it’s seems like we’re going to where players get a slice of that TV Revenue a slice of that pie yeah where some of the nil infrastructure is not being governed by a third party but instead by athletic departments and institutions themselves yeah as some qualifier as some part of signing on with a program there will have to be contracts if there is money involved there already sort of is a contract that’s what a letter letter of intent is but this is different to a new level if we’re talking about actual finances right as part and there’s no like specific standard across this sport exactly yeah but as part of those agreements with some sure will be vetted by very smart lawyers neither you nor I are are lawyers here we have no idea what we’re talking about but if there’s money involved clearly there will be lawyers involved that are overseeing the process so that everything hopefully is done on the up and up yeah and I got to believe that as part of those agreements there will be language in there that keeps guys playing in bowl games that some p of their revenue will be contingent on bull participation and look a bigger playoff means that there is just going to be more competitive reasons to keep playing because you feel as if you want to win a National Championship or you want to play on that stage even if you think you’re like yeah I’m pretty sure I’m going to be a first or second round pick by me performing in a huge way at Penn State at Miami at Texas whatever with more eyeballs than ever watching that like I have an opportunity to either cement that or make a leap in people’s eyes because of the level of competition I can show out against I I believe that the ball opats thing is is solvable I don’t know if it’s solvable yet I think we’ll still see a fair share of that um I also think it’s a matter of time only a matter of time until we have a threat of a playoff opt out everything that came happen will happen it will happen it will happen these things will happen and I think I think some aspect of the opt outs can be resolved in due time yeah and so I’m optimistic on that I think there will be more at play though I don’t I don’t know that we’re going to see a lot of opt outs in a 12 or 14 team playoff that are just like I want to preserve myself physically I think it’ll be more I am already pretty injured and it doesn’t seem worth it to jeopardize what I might have in the future or I hate being in this locker room playing for these coaches I I’ve grown to just hate my existence in whatever college town in whatever culture locker room and whatever like I’m I just see no reason to continue longer than I need to for my future for my happiness or whatever that’ll happen and maybe we won’t get the whole story and that person will become a villain because we don’t know the whole story but yes anything that can happen will happen one other thing for me and then if you’ve got any other any other points that you want to bring up you can go for it one other common question that I’ve gotten on more than one occasion the whole Nick sain retirement thing I think could have a really interesting effect on this season are you g to do the Saddam vacuum thing a little bit okay A little bit um sa retiring really does leave pretty big vacuum in the sport and they replaced him with kayin dbor who was already one of the best coaches in college football albe it he hasn’t been a a a head coach for all that long at the power five level but obviously has proven that he knows what he’s doing I don’t think if you’re out there rooting for Alabama to take a major step back you’re going to be waiting a while I think they’re going to be fine but it does create something of a void not having Sabin in college football and the thought that was expressed to me was that college football is more enjoyable now without Sabin yeah which I don’t know if I fully agree with but I do understand where people are coming from when they bring that up because much like we’ve seen in other sports with dynasties after a while sure you appreciate the greatness but also you’re sort of ready for that novelty you’re ready you’re ready to fall back in love with the sport and have somebody else step up and claim that mantle and with Sabin retiring we’ve talked about it all offseason what kind of effect is that going to have on the SEC what kind of effect is that going to have on college football as a whole and I hadn’t really considered what kind of effect that might have on college football fandom I feel like so much has changed over the last six months even that Sabin leaving at this point is almost an afterthought it won’t be once the season gets here every announcer and everybody writing about college football or doing what we do is going to talk about it because we have to next month when we do previews we’re going to have to talk about Sabin and what the new version of Bama and the Southeastern Conference looks like without him that’s just the reality that we live in yeah but the effect that it might have on fandom more people out there being interested in SEC and in college football as a whole because the biggest Titan of the sport the best coach in the history of the sport is no longer there that was a zag I did not expect in yeah I I think at least in the short term people are not really going to know what to expect if you’re a a fan of somebody else but like number seven Alabama’s playing number nine Georgia or something that like it doesn’t become as much of an obvious TV show without Nick Sabin whether you like rooting for him or you’re just curious to see what this year’s you know that Alabama is going to have some sort of dynastic Squad in some way because that’s all they’ve produced pretty much through the last you know 15 years and there were a lot of I Bama games had high ratings and part of the reason why they had the ratings is because there were a lot of people who would hate watch yeah what’s it going to mean this year if you’re not hate watching Alabama you know that’s kind of the sentiment that I think I’m trying to get to or that’s at least been expressed to me I honestly I I had not considered that aspect of it I considered everything else just not that well and the sort of the meaning of beating Alabama changes it does right absolutely mean of beating kin dbor Alabama even if he goes 10 and2 every season for the entirety of his regular season career at Alabama beating kayin dbor Alabama is never going to be beating Nick Sabin Alabama and just in terms of setting an SEC or a national narrative it’s a little bit of David Lee Roth Sami Hagar like you saw Van Halen but which Van Halen yeah right that’s a reference for the old people out for the olds yeah that’s right um it there there’s just you have to be more specific about what you know you beat Jim Harbaugh Michigan or you beat shiron Moore Michigan sh Moore might be incredible but it’s there was a certain amount of hate or appreciation or even just knowledge and recognition of Jim Harbaugh at Michigan and just as a football coach where you’re just like oh I know what I’m going to get on the sideline for as long as this person is coaching there and yeah everything changes and when I say like I’m optim Mystic that the the issues that your transfer portal has the issues that nil has the issues that an expanded playoff the issues that realignment has this is not a sport that makes a decision and sticks with it for 30 years it has never been that and so I I don’t know what like a a a comparison an apt analogy would be but you know the it’s some of its dating right you you date somebody for a couple months you’re like ah I don’t know if I want to be with somebody long-term who is 66 or that loud or this religion or this messy or drinks this much or drinks this little whatever and you just sort of find what works for you and you’re always tinkering and that’s what the sport is that’s what if people keep getting turned off and they there we keep having these tangible effects that like Chip Kelly goes from being the head coach at a major place to an offensive coordinator and Jeff Halley and Kane waming all these different experiences that these guys are having in reaction to the reality of where the sport is the sport will adjust I think the sport is going to recognize that perhaps and I use this like the sport but I I think conferences and Commissioners are going to come to the realization that certain things that they’ve done have turned off too many people and it’s not that they’re going to move backwards and we’re going to go to the BCS or something like that but I think there will be incremental changes over the next few years in response to negativity surrounding the sport so whether that is is re- regionalizing the way teams are grouped together or the way like I don’t know how backwards the playoff could go but I think we could see it you know hop back from 14 to 12 or to eight or something like that if you keep seeing lesser and lesser TV ratings against the NFL in late December like there are tangible ways to measure yeah the success of the sport and I think the people that run the sport aren’t dumb and they’re not going to expand and they’re not going to try and grow the bottom line at the expense of long-term thinking forever and so whatever however you want to compare it I do think I do believe that people running the sport at some point are going to recognize that running certain aspects into the ground are going to kill it and so I’m optimistic that people people are not that stupid well you can only expand so much further that’s true and there are a limited amount of dollars yeah out there this is not an infinite sum of money at some point you reach kind of a terminal velocity with all this and I don’t know when that point arrives I don’t know with these conversations that we’ve had about private equity and these other sources of revenue that programs are apparent investigating seems like they’re all investigating it on some level yeah I I don’t know what that does to that equation but certainly this is not something that can expand forever right now they’re trying to make this as as strong of a business case as they can with as much money available to to all parties and that’s fine at some point though I think there will be more of a strategic conversation about where is this headed and unfortunately the most obvious place of like unbundling is hey guys we’re going to have 28 Big 10 teams and 28 SEC teams and it’s going to be the NFC and AFC and we’re going to go from there that’s probably the great bundling and unbundling at the same time um but also I I think there is going to be a reckoning I really do think there’s going to be Reckoning with the direction of the sport and there is going to be despite 150 years of evidence to the contrary there there is going to be some sort of leadership at the top that doesn’t exist right now that is going to get a boardroom of some kind together with all of the conferences and they’re going to come to conclusions that will benefit the health of the sport I think yeah I think it a little bit like uh Lord of the Rings the first the first Lord of the Rings where they gather around and figure out what they’re going to do next yeah in some cases Waring factions trying to get on the same side I mean it may take something like that to preserve the long-term health of the sport it’s kind of hard hard to foresee that right now I don’t think that leadership exists but at some point if the money dries up at least a little bit or if at least the availability of money let’s say yeah more accurately is what dries up at some point they’ll have to think longer term about it is is there an event is there a specific event that you think would cause dramatic change or like is there an optic is there is there something in your mind that you’re like wow college football has gotten to this point and it’s so bad that they’re all going to huddle up in some sort of Hiatt place in Texas yeah and figure out where it went wrong and how to get back on the right track is there like that specific event to you I think a very very small example of that occurring right now is what what’s happening at Colorado with Dion and the over Reliance of the transfer portal you know can you imagine if that works you imagine if we’re five years down the line Dion builds a roster every year out of the transfer portal steals everybody’s best players there would be I mean he hasn’t started doing that yet he hasn’t started doing yet but I’m saying if if we’re doing this thought experiment right I think it will take something like that something radical like that that will force everybody to get in a room and think think about is this what we want some people will come at it from the perspective of we feel it’s a competitive uh unbalance that we need to try and rectify others will come at it from the standpoint of hey we want to try this too but I think it’ll take something radical like that like if there is let’s say an injection of private Equity into a school like a Florida State and suddenly they can go out and pay all their players $10 million which won’t happen I know this an exaggeration but instances like that I think would be the kind of thing that forc people to sit down in the room and like hold up let’s see where we see where we really want to take this and is this fair for everybody yeah I think it’s going to be programs shutting down program shutting down financially I mean you remember during Co when there were announcements across the college sports land landscape that this school has just canceled four four Sports for the foreseeable future or forever whatever um I think you know that like Cal and Wake Forest have just decided they they can’t compete compete and instead of throwing money at the problem that doesn’t do anything they’re shutting football down or you know some school that has had a ton of success but not lately they’re just like we’re done we’re going to you know destroy the stadium and you know build a it has to be the caveat is it has to be a program that a lot of people care about yeah and I I mean no disrespect to Vanderbilt to ruers when I say this they are very frequently the punching bags for this conversation yeah but you know as well as I we hear about it all the time we won’t talk about it as much on this episode maybe another one one other thing we get a lot of is hey when are they going to kick Ruckers out when are they going to kick Vanderbilt out of the SEC with all the money on the line couldn’t they give that spot to a better team if it’s a program at some point that a lot of people care about or that is very prominent in the National conversation if they’re unable to remain solvent because of this new world order that would turn some heads yeah they don’t want to take private Equity money and it just it goes south and the the stands are empty like what if the stands are empty at playoff games I mean we’re already going to have playoff games with school not in session and at a number of places that doesn’t matter but you do lose something right I think finals are in generally early to mid December and the Playoff starts like around the 19th or 20th most seasons it looks like like so you’re going to have limited students at games if the weather’s terrible somewhere and you know 10,000 people don’t show up and you get people posting pictures of like semi empty playoff games national championships that people don’t want to go to whatever I think that could be a sort of uh impetus there’s a lot of travel that meeting like there’s a lot of travel a lot of travel involved if you’re a fan of a team you have to you have to decide if you want to in many cases spend the money to go to a first round matchup on campus if you want to sell out and try to go to one of the quarter semi-finals night on a Wednesday night held at like the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl or something or if you want to try and delay it even further and try to go to a national championship or something like that I mean it’s a decision for a lot of people trying to figure out what makes the most sense yeah I think ultimately the thing that’s funding the sport Right Now TV is going to be the biggest barometer that if they’re just absolutely shelled ratings wise and there’s just the conversation shifts away from college football in late December early January you know you’ve got NFL NBA all sorts of stuff happening at this time and the just the conversation around the sport and viewership across the sport is just like I mean I think the orcon Ohio State game had something like 18.1 was the rating or something like that and TCU Georgia was in like the eights or nines something like that like if you get that sort of low number constantly and I know they’re adding volume to try to make it up and Impressions and everything for advertisers but like it’s not going to be a sensible solution if people aren’t watching well I just not I think round one on campus will get a ton of action yeah I think that will over the Long Haul be the round that gets the most interest from the public not just because there are more games and more teams but I think the lore of having those games on campus is something that is very very integral to the sport it’s meaningful to those of us who have rooted for the sport for a long time having those games on campus I think we’ll see that reflected in the numbers but the deeper you go into this thing yeah I’m curious too do you think I’m being too precious in saying that like college football will find a way too romantic yes really I don’t trust these guys Dan yeah they’ve not really us they’ve not really given us a great reason to trust that they’re going to do what’s best for the sport in the long term yeah and at least if the current Trend holds it’s the pursuit of the dollar as opposed to the betterment of the game yeah and I am not a pessimistic person with respect to college football I’m G to watch regardless I’m going to find the the fun stuff to talk about on this show it’s just what we do we’re not going to take a doom and gloom approach we’re not going to take an I toldo approach to any of this where we’re right where we’re wrong more often than not we’ll be wrong yeah we’re just not that’s just not who we are but until they give me a reason to believe that they are trustworthy and they are not just going out after the almighty dollar I have no reason to think otherwise yeah it’s so you’re you’re more Doomer with this than I am weirdly enough I am I am more Doomer with respect to the powers that be because there’s never been a centralized governing body here to kind of keep this thing on the rails you’ve got a lot of folks operating folks folks folks folks operating folks folks great state in their own best interest yeah and until there is some sort of event or some reason for them to work a little bit more together and not try to get as rich as possible um I’m not as optimistic that all of these things will be solved I think some of it will kind of come out in the wash I think some of it will be solved the deeper we get into this new structure with money and contracts and expanded playoff and conf like some of it will kind of work itself out but if if we’re talking about ultimately trying to make the sport as fun as it can be as Equitable as it can be as sustainable as possible uh I have not seen much evidence that anybody’s interested in that right now well here you know what an interesting Canary is for Canary and the coal mine type situation is what do Washington State and Oregon State Games look like in terms of the people there what do the crowds look like what do the TV ratings look like what do the conversations look like um and not just early on but later on in the season especially if one of those teams is like an eight and four-ish type team do we see catastrophic downturns do we see surprising like rallying Behind these teams who definitely feel like they’ve been wronged by the sport and by the other teams in their region like that to me will go a long way as for explaining the the true love people either do or don’t have for their teams regardless of the state of the sport so look Dan um yeah we do shows like this from time to time where we’re not playing a game where it’s just stuff that’s on our mind and we feel the need to talk it out and have a conversation if you have made it this full way through if you found this conversation valuable and meaningful and TW the following sentence at Tony Barnhart no yeah we’re not doing a secret verbal here not a secret verbal okay no secret verbal we’ll save that for the season if any of this has been thought-provoking for you hit follow or subscribe on the podcast hang with us all season long things will start to roll a little bit more downhill the closer we get to everything but for the time being anyway these are the types of conversations that Dan and I have been having with people who just find oh you talk about college football for a living what about this what about that there have been some common themes we obviously would love to hear from you as well so whether you email in solid verbal gmail.com whether you hit us up on social media comment on YouTube videos wherever wherever you can post we we would welcome your feedback on any of the stuff we described here today let us know where we’re right where we’re wrong and maybe stuff we should talk about next time around because there will be next time around this is just a state of being right now in whether or not you feel like Boone picking Stadium will be turned into like a spirit of Halloween store that’s right or not that’s right yeah that’s right all right again verbal. comom is where you can go if you want to join the community we’ve got a teaming community of college football fans ever so interested in this coming college football season talking feverishly on our Discord server about any and all things not just college football but Sports and life in general ver balls.com is where you can go to check that out you also get bonus episodes adree episodes if nothing more you can help support what Dan and I do for the last time hit follow hit subscribe if you like what you heard here today and you want more of it in your podcasting feed of choice Dan that’s all I got man yeah it’s everything I have for that guy over there my good friend Dan Rubenstein from myself Tai H brand thank you for downloading for listening for supporting we will talk to you all on Thursday in the meantime stay Sol peace