The Lekker Rugby Pod: Bulls beaten at Loftus, Boks whipping Wales and the penultimate Harry’s Index!

Episode 4: MW and Harry talk about lekkerbacks – those uniquely South African scrumcapped swivelhipped pintsized wing who keep coming. But thoroughly dissect the unlekker Bulls’ miserable second half in the URC final. A deep dive.

Also up for discussion is the Springboks whipping Wales at Twickenham and the penultimate Harry’s Index where the best club team in the world will be crowned next week after the French Top 14 final!

00:00 What happened at Loftus?
24:48 Springboks whip Wales at Twickenham
45:05 Blues demolish Chiefs in Super Rugby final
48:13 The penultimate Harry’s Index

Check out Harry Jones on X (or Twitter) to see what the Harry Index is all about!

Harry Index is here: https://x.com/haribaldijones/status/1796975654899949973
Harry’s Twitter page is here: https://twitter.com/haribaldijones

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The Lekker Rugby Pod: Bulls beaten at Loftus, Boks whipping Wales and the penultimate Harry’s Index!

megafoon sport,MW Welman,south africa,rugby world cup 2023,raakvat rugby,dhl stormers,harry jones,vodacom bulls,toulouse,leinster,munster,glasgow warriors,ulster,chiefs,hurricanes,blues,super rugby pacific,premiership rugby,French top 14,Bath,northampton saints,@8-9Combo,Lekker rugby pod,LRP,Springboks,mw welman,Jake White,URC,bulls vs glasgow highlights,The Lekker Rugby Pod: Bulls beaten at Loftus,Boks whipping Wales and the penultimate Harry’s Index!

this is the Lea rugby part with Harry Jones and mvia velman it’s a Lea rugby part with Harry Jones and MV velman and Harry I’m telling you right now I’m sending my bill for my psychiatric treatment straight to the Bulls because honestly no one no one’s buil to survive these kinds of highs and lows this is ridiculous not so lack it when it’s your team getting bounced eh um but I’ll tell you I’ll tell you this you know obviously we know the word fan comes from fanatic so we’re supposed to be extremely happy and extremely sad this is the life of the fan but my analogy for you uh MV is like I once upon a time I was playing an American football game uh and as you might know it’s all about being big in the in the the grid iron so you carb up and to to get ready for a very big game against The Lumberjacks uh the team I was playing for had a pancake eating contest not Pac cook not the little tiny panac cook wrapped up with the cinnamon sugar and the lemon I’m talking like giant Flapjacks so it was ax the Jacks with flapjacks and it was an eating contest and uh I was I was a famous eater back in the day so I was signed up by my team by my coach and said you know come on you’re going to win this easy five minutes how many pancakes can you stuff down your throat uh and the only thing you can use to lubricate it down is syrup golden maple syrup not the golden syrup but the maple syrup and so you’re going to choke some down people had different strategies you know one of my main competitors was just stuffing four or five pan pancakes in his mouth and then trying to syrup it down others were doing the bite bite bite bite bite swallow uh but no you couldn’t have milk or water at all let me tell you something and VI I I learned from that that the worst possible position to finish in in a pancake eating contest 24 hours before you play a game in the sun is second I had one giant wad of pancake in my throat and I couldn’t get it down I was I was just pouring uh syrup down my throat and I saw my competitor swallow and when win it’s almost better to lose in the quarterfinals it’s almost better not to make the playoffs it’s the worst when you’re in the final at home and you have the ball as the clock is dead it’s in your hands you’re very near the tri line one of your best you know Runners AA has a ball in his hands and you you know you don’t do the the right peel off um so I’ll just say that for pancake my pancake eating prowess is no like if if you know you’re not going to win then just don’t be in the pain but that’s not how we gear as rugby fans we want it uh you guys will be back I think I think the Bulls overperformed the season I think at the beginning of the Season you would not have said Bulls home final so yeah we wouldn’t have said that a couple of weeks ago for that matter you’re right but yeah you know what now I think a good thing you mentioned that now as a fan you know final at home and everything else I think honestly I spoke about it this morning a bit briefly in afans is they made too much of an occasion of it and Jake is on about the fact that the the the teams are so young and the players are so young you know we have a running joke about C hom is only 21 or 22 you know did you know that kind of a thing and uh I think he’s 22 Jake I think he actually had a birthday he had we actually joked but we made the mistake jakeob was right he is actually 22 but the point is he a young let the guy become a man he’s not a like anymore yeah and I want to talk about Cameron a bit more just now but the point is this this is a young team and they’re not used to a lot of number one and not least used to a lot of Limelight and I think the mistake the Bulls made is they made like I said earlier they made too much of an occasion of it you know the oh we sold 45,000 tickets we’ve sold 46,000 tickets there’s 1,000 tickets left in the talk shows and radio shows and TV shows and zooms and and press and everything else and people are you know talking about Cameron is and next D from mean and there’s a whole lot of hype and bull pitched up at lofas and bakis bu pitched up at lofas and everybody was giving bit of a raw ra speech and I think it was just too much these I tell you right now and I saw it with Ruan afterwards in the press conference it was like a deer in the headlights is the words that I used it was too much pressure they were Overexposed they did not out to they can play rugby these young guys I mean they were at school the other day now was all the international attention on them and they can’t they didn’t know how to cope with it and I saw it right the moment they ran onto the field did well for a bit and they lost the plot completely so I think number one Bulls just should have treated it as another week no normal game the normal buildup nothing special calm down the expectations just treat it like a normal weekend they didn’t and I think that’s the first place it went wrong so your the one of your theorems is that um they believe the hype and young young guys can by the way maybe more than the old guys vly being out might have been able to calm everyone down keep you grumpy keep you grounded but you tell a 21 22 year old kid that he’s the best thing in the world they kind of start to think it and then the pressure is heaped on then the minute the whistle blows I thought it was about so I thought about three things watching the game one was Val Laro is always most valuable when he’s not there that’s when you go oh I wish we had ability right now to break a very good defensive line the best defensive team and now we have you know six minutes left can we make a break I mean he’s just particularly skilled only Bowden Barrett and he have the most line uh Tri assists you know in in the last decade second thing is I saw and I’m going to call it the stripping transmitted diseases the strip club Bull’s going for strips tackle the man first why you giving him three or four extra meters while you’re trying to do the miracle sexy strip uh I know strips you know can work fa did it in the World Cup final I mean semi-final or quarterfinal one of those finals um but it’s a really bad thing to do if you’re the initial tackler if you’re the second man in by all means uh third thing I just think glasow was really good at putting your boys in the exactly the awkward uh I talked to to Ox scrum with him about two months ago and he said his theory of scrums is to find the awkward so find your opponent’s awkwardness I just felt like the Bulls looked a little bit awkward 20 L 20 minutes last quarter when glasow found it they they found all the ways that Glasgow likes you know let’s be in a a mall competition because we’re comfortable there there’s no team on the planet more comfortable about more defending and more making than Glasgow right now the Bulls didn’t look that great they didn’t look they didn’t know that when to Shear off they didn’t know when to to use or lose um other thing is I think just making in a tackle competition uh was also bad the Bulls have been living off you know offload go to the races finish breaks I didn’t see any of that um yeah so I don’t want to make excuses on Personnel everyone loses people Marcel CIA Valu would have made a difference Glasgow probably have a list of people they would like um but I felt like in the end it was there to win and that’s hurt I think on the day I think we definitely missed V number one last week you saw for yourself that we were playing the game in the right areas CU Billy was either a backup number 10 and Mak making sure that we got the [ __ ] over there we played in the in in their backyard the entire second half felt like we were parked in our side in the bull side of the of of of the park we just could never get out of it because there wasn’t somebody like that and the question I’m asking I was wondering about is well why didn’t Yan hon do that and then I I remember that that little test that he passed just before halftime where he was uh deemed fit to continue playing he wasn’t fit to continue playing that penalty kick that he kicked over the Deadpool line that could have been a lineup on their throw throw for us it ended up being a SC for them the head test was too long they he the guy actually gave him three or four bites at it uh and I’ve been there I’ve I’ve I’ve been concussed and and the my coach gave me three or four different chances to pass the test oh you try this one yeah I think his Bell was wrong you’re right to your point territory though so it’s a very interesting stat the bulls actually had more of the ball just barely but they had no territory it was 40% uh that’s a terrible way to play a knockout rugby in Glasgow again put you in the awkward you know the Bulls were playing uphill the wrong part of the field which means every time there was a minor problem or hiccup in the attack it was Off to the Races for Glasgow which you know that’s why ended up being three tries to one uh only 269 meters developed uh um by the run I think bull should have kicked more 22 kicks is not enough and a not out match you look at some of the other knockout matches and people were kicking 40 38 times uh they gave up on the kick Chase too quickly and the final thing is uh Defenders beaten glasow was just running over bulls for sport 41 defense uh Defenders bust busted tackles run over tackles run through tackles when is the last time you saw Bulls team lose the Collision you know um yeah that’s what I saw yeah that’s exactly what what I want to talk about next is Franco Smith said in the Press conf conf afterwards I going just go back one step one of the South African guys that I’m going to be talking to this week SIM from news 24 um he said he asked Franco on Friday what did he think of Jake as a coach and the the conversation went away of basically asking me what his plan was and Franco laughed at him and said listen I’m not going to tell you my game plan I know Jake but I’m not going to tell you my game plan so last night the same journalist ask him the same asked him the same question he said okay I can tell you now we decided to take the Bulls on on the strong points the points that they’ve never been challenged on and that have been comfortable dominating scrums line outs Ms to a degree everywhere else and defense you know the the Bulls were not that great on defense but they sort of had a pride in terms of they can defend and then most importantly the big guys the the the ball carriers like alri H and and those guys were just tackled back they were carried back they had absolutely no impact whatsoever and it’s because glasg go attacked them on the on their strong points not on their weak points normally you would say was oh about they’re too good at this and then so we going to go around this or ignore that or try and take it out of the game they said no well we challenge you on that and that I think took the Bulls a little bit by surprise that’s another coaching thing if I’m not mistaken but uh I think that’s where where where where GL won the head game um the Bulls didn’t know what to do anymore because all the strengths were effectively neutralized yeah you look at one of the biggest edges on the stats before on the whole season was about scrum penalties one and the Bulls were 17% up you know a point spread and and um and glasow was one of the worst in the comp so you would think that would be one area where there would be pay now I think early on maybe not only just this game but another game the refs seem to be saying to us we’re not going to give you the penalty for just being Superior in the scrum as much we have to see a like defined infringement you have to stand up first lose your bond Etc so that didn’t get the pay probably Jake was upset about that but I do think there’s another thing and skull burer said this in comms uh and I thought if there was one if there was a Franco uh Gambit you know on the chess game here that that I think he won is they infringed early 17 penalties against um Glasgow and they didn’t seem at all worried about that it was New Zealand style it was all black style INF Fringe the minute your opponent gets into the Red Zone on the first don’t wait don’t try to defend without fouling for five six phases and then because then the ref already thinks you know go to his pocket second do it early uh on mass everyone do it everyone is going to do it that way you don’t know if it was wiim call Kieran Reed or U Kano you don’t know who’s who it looks like not a foul if everyone’s doing it and then you end up doing just one penalty it’s always the best uh Choice k then says I’m not going to take the three which he should he goes to the corner and then we defend clean so you foul foul foul foul foul and then on the line out clean I think Franco was okay with a 17 to9 penalty count it’s always misunderstood it doesn’t matter in rugby if you have lots of penalties it’s going to be where the penalty is and why you did it and if I make you choose between three and five you choose five you missed a five it was a good foul it’s great um so skull was really on that and he started once he said that I started watching it every time and every time Bulls went into the red zone They flooded The Zone they killed the rock they killed the breakdown even on Advantage they didn’t let the Bulls go Flip Flip to the side and get the speed Advantage you never saw the speed stirs going one-on-one there was never you never saw that I think Franco knew that they would always lose evasion and so Bulls started saying yo but I can run over you you know I could break my arm break your leg all that kind of stuff and it’s just Mano mano m kismo doesn’t work glasgow’s plenty tough Jake DC uh fuson they’re tough boys you’re not going to run over them the big question that was asked last night and I think Jake sort of almost lost his temper about that is the fact that um did the Bulls play their final last week having to up their game so much mentally and physically and strategically and everything IL that you could possibly imagine against a lster side it’s a DEC question though I I don’t think it’s true but it’s a decent question his defense firstly last week was he said yeah if if that was our final then it should have been glasgow’s final as well because they played against the defending Champions and beat them away you know and but the point was that uh the Bulls maybe that win last week against lster took much more out of the Bulls than that against monster took out of the glasow guy so that’s my impression maybe but glasow made a lot of tackles a week ago too maybe so what do you think about altitude being maybe a bit of a myth in the sense that it actually affects everyone and that this kind of idea in modern sports science is you can find a way around it I mean I don’t know what all they drinking and eating but I don’t know if it’s as big an edge and it might matter a lot to a guy like Volo too that might like a big heavy set guy might be starving for oxygen more than you know whatever horn the scrum off who looked like he could run for days um I didn’t feel like lasgo was tired at the end that’s all I’m saying another interesting point that came up in the press conference is Jake and I have been running having this running debate this entire season about this altitude matters and he were saying to me yeah he’s a sports scientist and he studied Sports Science and everything it does matter and it goes on and I see the Scottish guys put up a bit of a meme about that sign in the tunnel they changed it to say you know dot doesn’t matter no it doesn’t hey they won they can do it yeah and Franco said specifically and this is something else I want to talk to about that game that they played against the Bulls coup a week ago when they almost came back almost came back Jake himself said if that game was 10 minutes longer they would have lost that game or we would have lost that game they learned a lot from that Glasco did in terms of um being able to stand up to the Bulls but also being able to survive this altitude thing they finished stronger than the Bulls there and that same thing happened yesterday they finished much stronger than the Bulls were dead on their feet like you said altitude does matter even even if it’s your own ground it still matters like you said what bothered me if you have an altitude problem people get tired and the lungs are burning why are you wait until the 8 75 75th minute to bring on a new front row why do you leave your backup scrum off Backup fly off on the bench it doesn’t make any sense to me Jake said this is what he’s thinking he said y listen this is a final if we drawn there’s a there’s going to be a knock 10 minute extra time in the Lo they wanted this his bench to be to be uh fresh no that’s wrong that’s wrong Jake that’s how you think as a visiting coach and I think you have to keep uh some Reserve there just in case as the home team you have to come in Brave uh I think he said A week ago be brave and I don’t there were critical moments where he wasn’t and the team wasn’t and you got to be brave like Rossi sometimes you pull some really early sometimes you run a bomb squad in there at minute 35 uh if you want to tell the if if you’re not giving this front row penalty maybe the way they should bring in a new front row sometimes the same monstering and the ref goes oh new guy so I’ll give your penalty there’s some Mind Games there other thing is I think uh if you’re going to attach to a mall and you’re going to come down to the end it’s like the 138 loss to Ireland in the World Cup the problem with doing that is a good Mall defense team knows all it has to do is stay bound the ref doesn’t want to give you the penalty he’s tired of doing the penalty penalty penalty again so they’re going to let you collapse them Mall as long as you don’t look like to completely filthy and your choice is you tell akar if you get even a sniff and they pull you to the to the left as he did run over that nine just run over him take him with you um that’s your best shot I think it was almost this kind of now we’re scared to lose and that can come from the coaching box if you’re not sending in reserves early if you I don’t know there’s just critical moments where I thought the Bulls looked a little bit shakier than the visitors why is that you should always feel dominant at home um the full full crowd I get all that but yeah you should say that on the 50-50s we’re going to get them so go for it yeah that that’s something funny to me second week in a row now that Chris smouth wasn’t brought on onto the field at all and um there’s something there I’m telling you now we asked Jake about it a couple weeks ago and he said y chrism has been given his marching orders he’ll be finishing at the Bulls after the curry cup he’s got nothing lined up and they’re giving him some time to go find something else but I can’t see any other reason why not to bring the guy on I mean Yan hon like you said got three or four chances to pass this but had impact test or whatever and they didn’t make it and you still leave the guy put different numbers of fingers they gave three fingers two fingers four fingers like okay he’s not getting it right why do you keep different of ridiculous so the next thing I want to talk to you about is the captain I know we talked about it briefly in the beginning but the captain is uh is a major major problem for the Bulls and even if Marcal is fit and ready he can only be on the field so long when he’s not 21 anymore I wonder what they’re going to do about about a captain and while I’m talking about that I said earlier today as well the Bulls built a lot of depth which is admirable but the point is the problem is that they’ve built an a team and A C team there’s no B Team the Gap is too big between the first choice and the second choice and I think that’s fighting them and we saw it at Northampton as well when they sent the second team it wasn’t the second team it was effectively the third team against the eventual Champions clearly exposed so they have to do something about that as well yeah that’s probably harder to fix because it gets into financials and such but um I so I think it’s always a problem in a in a team when your team captain is not the real Captain does it make sense like I think the unofficial Captain is probably vly when he’s on the field because he’s organizing if you ever had a live match with vly and you just watch him like I was in Sydney watching him against the wab bees um and the amount of coaching he does on the field is unbelievable he was putting Kan and Moody exactly where Moody needed to be uh he was predicting exactly where the ball was going to go from the Wes um I don’t see that when he was gone so so that’s one thing other one is why isn’t El loow why why is low not the captain he looks like a guy that people listen to when I see the huddles he’s the guy talking I don’t see Ruan doing that either Ruan and um you got a kind of a quiet Bulls pack anyway it’s not a very talkative pack uh none of the front rows are talkative um so it’s Lucy’s so hanom low these guys seem like people that I mean maybe hanuk come’s too young but in the end I think um and probably Lo’s not that old much older but those are the guys that seem to be the actual leaders on the field and then at the back you see it’s laru and so if you go all season with the wrong people named as official captains I think when it comes down to the you know when when it’s like squeaky testicle time at the very end um who do you listen to like who can actually change the shape on the field not looking at the Box not waiting for the water boy the physio to tell you what to do I’m talking in these rocks what do you do can someone say stop stripping the ball I remember many a time when you had uh Richie mcco tell these guys to stop something like don’t do that anymore we’re not we’re getting nothing out of the strip let’s put these guys in the ground let’s make them go backward because sooner or later this ref’s going to Ping that in a good way and then hen can take a kick um no I just thought it was lost uh chances however I think like I said at the top um the Bulls maybe were not supposed to be this high and I’ve got them ranked still in the top five in the world in the Harry index we talk about that top five in the world is not too bad HH so yeah I was hoping to to you know see a a jump up to to number one I mean I was quite confident about this I was thinking about sending you a WhatsApp to say get your Praises ready and you know break out the ukulele like I said and I thought the better of it and L I did yeah I thought the Bulls were gonna win on the final mall I thought that it set up especially akur scored so many points for scale for sale sharks by shearing off the back he’s very good at Mir cutting and then going boom and then and he had only a nine against him he would have taken him with him there’s no way that nine tackles AKA and puts him on the ground or puts him back it’s going to be either it’s going to be held up by nine Miracle or AKA is going to score and then you have a kick to win yeah AKA was limping I don’t know if you saw that before that final line out he was barely walking and that might have played into so I don’t want to so I never want to bash a player in that kind of situation but I still back him in that moment to get vous and just say I don’t care my leg’s hanging off but doesn’t matter I’m just a big boy and I can take a Scottish nine into the into touch into the try line with me before I finish lamenting about the Bulls it’s going to take me a long time to recover from this highest of highs and the lowest of lows do you still think Jake is the right person at least for the next two years three seasons basically yeah I look at so at the failure and I say is it remediable yes um is a lot of it about depth and personnel which I think you you’re right on yes that’s not the coach’s fault um you know there’s limited Finance uh issues there I think he’s making players better than they were when they when they came in that’s my test for a coach do they believe in the guy and does he make them better and did he overperform yes I think top five in the world uh losing finalist in the home final that’s I think a year ago you’d say oh joke Jake good job if you get that okay and then another burning issue very controversial issues the fact issue of the neutral venue and maybe an extra week between the semi-final and the finals your thoughts the latter one yes I think um you look at all the really big comps in the world the big um the big ones for all the money they have an extended period before the final final for all the marbles match uh neutral no I’m okay with rewarding a team for winning uh and the problem you solve with making a neutral creates a new problem in the end it’s uh I think you just stick it the way it is and also I I just tweeted something out about you know the big biggest BS about rugby that has been disproved this year one of those is that the home you know home field decides everything no it doesn’t uh just like red car doesn’t just like uh we need to fix rugby on some big like big level no we don’t it’s a great match great game full Stadium all over the world uh I just think uh bulls will look back those guys if they never get back to a final again those individually they’ll look back and say we had we could have won that game and so that second half was was really bad was one of the worst 40 minutes I’ve seen from the Bulls in ages um and and so that’s you always look back and say wasn’t the coach’s fault wasn’t the general manager wasn’t the guy signing we had that game you know all we had to do was play to our strengths instead of running into brick walls another thing I just wanted to quickly add is uh the one good thing to come out of this is fact that most African Scottish team won this this final anyway so I’m happy about that and I’m happy that that coach might still will be in blue in a couple of years time in light blue it seems to be a quite a strong rumor going around that he’s going to be the guy replace coach I like him I like his personality honestly I think the way he talks and very strong Africans accent which I absolutely love you know and you know the funny thing Harry when they sat down it was um Franco and KL stain sitting next to other were talking Africans to each other SK man I ran into KL State on a train in Scotland once and he was talking off foron to his wife uh and uh I think it was his wife I I will not make up a gossip story here um and what’s funny is he could he could feel safe to say whatever he wants and I was literally going oh my God you’re being funny right now yeah that is funny okay anyway let’s talk about the spring box uh the uh much anticipated debut of Jordan edri at number 10 which I questioned right from the offset and and then uh the what do you call them the scrum cap wearing hip swinging cap Wing what what what was the you you put out a little poll on on Twitter or X what’s what is that scrum cap wearing Wing Dynamo kind of position what do you think what’s the what what which option one at the end of the day what are we going to call these people I don’t know I’m getting some really good suggestions that I have not even suggested so I’m when to wait till the poll’s over but one one thing I liked was blind back you know the idea that you have like you know the horses in the in the souls and they have that blinders on uh and I I said Blinder back and someone improved it and said just blind back and I just think it’s they they play blinders they they focused it’s no reason to have a scrum cap as a wing it’s almost sure to be dislodged at some point when you don’t want it in your face um but there’s something about it it gives them superpowers uh look at the the scrum cap guys um they’re crazy so I will say this uh a long time ago um Rosy made it clear that he wants to build depth that he views the beginning match or against a team that’s essentially limited like you know Wales Wales ran uh 71 times for 174 M that’s not a threat I mean like if someone’s taking 70 uh carries and gets 174 M when you give them you know a few for the fullback contrast box 507 met of not that many more carries um you should be able to experiment that is the game that you should be able to experiment um you want to build some depth you have a structure you have iban you have Peter step you have the guys around to make it okay you have fuff and then you stick in a 10 I get all that but then you mustn’t also be sentimental and say oh give him time you know that’s harsh it was terrible it was one of the worst debuts I’ve ever seen in my life um Jordan looked panicky he was uh inaccurate he made incredibly bad decisions he tried to offload from the deck at one point you know following seven other erors so it’s a failed experiment doesn’t mean he gets another shot sure wa but you have to say then it really is you’re lost chance because it’s not going to work if someone plays like that inside the system uh you can see the effect of Tony Brown already so when Jordan didn’t stuff it up and got it out and when Sasha came on it got out to the to the wings more and the trams you could already see a different style is it fixed now it’s not ready it’s not it’s still rough but you know five tries against a fairly decent defensive team is nothing to sneeze at um the Box you know got a lot of breaks busted a lot of tackles never lost one Ruck so that was nice to see the cleaning was really good nice and low uh never a card in it you know the the all the cleans were good and so the only thing that we have to work on is sort of the knock on and and handling and my Tony Brown offense uh Tony Brown’s attack is all about the shifting point of attack it’s the stuff that Bach fans have been saying for ages they want rasi is building a nice Bromance there were two moments where he’s turned to Jerry and to Tony and they were yucking it up they were smiling they were punching each other Rossy was all smiles so he liked it but I don’t want to overlook edil Fonda who had one of the best debuts I’ve ever seen is the falling into this kind of uh special position that we talking about on Twitter the number one response so far is Safa back which is interesting because it is a particularly South African uh skill set to have someone who’s equally Brave and competent on defense the only one that’s come up so far is like uh Shane Williams and Darcy Graham are two guys that are sort of quick scatter backs who can run around and so sappa back is sort of the N de plume that we’re coming to but there’s something about edil that looked exactly like K looks exactly like chess than Colby where there’s really not a position on their field that they look uncomfortable in it doesn’t matter about their size it doesn’t seem to matter at all edil is very strong too by the way but um it just seems like he had um time he rounded Rio D with ease I’m just straight up got to his outside and went around him that’s not that easy Rio’s a quick boy um yeah so I think uh that looks good it builds depth to your point about depth which is you know obviously one of the most important things in rugby nowadays um and I did like some of the the efforts uh of ruis at number eight so that’s a straight up um competition between hanom and Ru that’s good for South Africa to have a good problem have two guys doing going well um Y at 10 I would look I would look elsewhere but ask you number one I I like that gwing option cap Wing sounds to me like a bit of a Batman thing you know sort of you just need the I like the idea that the cap gives you special powers for some reason me too I like that name it just you know it’ss home with me and then in terms of edell I wanted to just say that double tackle that he made battle stats that’s incredible I mean just you told me that how strong he was remember you told me a couple weeks ago how strong he is and uh that’s the first thing and the second one is he’s incredibly quick I’m telling you not just a question of building death he sort of you know made a mark there that um yeah he might not just be the backup much longer if you asked me they asked him a really awkward question actually it was a really good interview post match and someone said what do you have to keep doing to to have the jersey or something Ed was really good by the way he’s like nah it’s just the day I’m just filling in I’m happy to be here he did all that stuff but behind it I can see in his eyes I could see in his eyes behind it like why not yeah let’s go that’s great I think in the Russi era one of the most thing most important thing is no one owns the Jersey I mean there’s a couple of people that come close I mean it’s hard to say that Ian’s not the best lock in the world um but a lot of the other positions where you would say oh that’s that’s taken I don’t know he I think he likes the idea that everyone’s looking over their shoulder yeah that’s nothing as good as as what as what’s as much of an incentive as someone L someone knocking on the door you know yeah you’re never comfortable keep you honest yeah but you mentioned 10 earlier and I think think there was a couple of alarm Bells going on off in Cape Town when the actual guy who should be playing number 10 at the storus ran into the field and someone popped off of a 51 meter penalty and just showed everybody that he should be the number one choice and I’ve been making my case for bringing him to Petoria I’m talking about Sasha find Gulu of course and then to my utter disappointment he went and signed a three-year contract to go play second fiddle to man liok at the stormers so I mean that guy is just a revelation but don’t you think yeah he’s got that confidence of superior athleticism uh F wasu he’s just got the idea when he gets like he actually called for the kick he said give it to me uh from his own off that’s pretty pulsy when you’re a young guy um he looks to me like he’s to the manner born like VSA did early on vmsa with that extreme quick burst and vision um they’re not afraid I think there’s something in the mental makeup of manty that’s essentially humble and uh a likable might be a nicer guy to hang around with I don’t know but uh there’s something about Sasha that kind of says no I’m the man give it to me so I think that’s a good problem to have with Demian uh healing right now I think Sasha can play various positions whereas man is more of a locked in 10 um one think about having someone who’s a superior goal kicker not every country relies on the 10 to be a goal kicker I mean the French have relied on nines for ages the Scottish on 15s so if you have someone like sasu could nail it that easily what a ball strike too he had plenty on it he could have made it from 60 at sea level um yeah I I think that’s a good problem I I will say this Sasha has been looked at as one of those players already I think it was just confirmation I didn’t have any doubt uh I would have been actually surprised if he folded whereas when Jordan ran on and the very first kick at Gold I thought oh no he doesn’t want that he doesn’t want the kick and it was the easy one it was a one that you and I could have actually made uh you know 50% of the time so um yeah I think that’s it you know you look at you look at kickers and you can almost sense it um in the French uh demial semi-finals for stad fron there was a guy who hit the polls three times reminded me of Bowden Barett in 2018 for the All Blacks against the box you can just tell sometimes when the players not ready to kick Gordon didn’t look ready to kick Sasha did that thing NS actually said something about it this week he doesn’t know why kiers takes so long to kick the ball you know put the b ball on the to do your thing and step up and kick it but they wait until the last possible second and would put themselves under so much pressure man especially Sport Science has proved this and it’s the most uh the best uh analogy is golf so the longer you stand over a ball uh the the harder your lactic acid builds up you have negative thoughts it’s actually hard to do it hre par Put It Best in that interview he’s had when he said you embrace the moment and instead of thinking about what if I miss you go how cool would it be if I made it uh you can imagine you don’t want to have you don’t want to have that uh conversation in your head for longer than about 10 seconds because at about 15 and 20 seconds you are thinking about missing it I should have done it five seconds ago yeah I’m talking about Sasha now being whatever his best position might be I insist is little fly off it’s either Center or fly off or or fullback now F didn’t have a bad game he was much better defensively than I thought he would be uh but Sasha seems to be that seems to be the direction the storm is maybe thinking about him maybe only problem there is they’ve got war khant and Damian and now Sasha so I’m saying Sasha seems to be almost Surplus to the stor requirements I think honestly in the terms of you know interest of good bring him to the Bulls I think he’ll do much better we’ll keep him thanks FY was definitely uh a question mark going in and he had some things go against him he had one of those you know cards for the whole kick the knee up thing which I think is a little bit picky uh when you’re in the air I mean just tell me how you feel in the air when you try to figure out how to organize your limbs and come to ground safely it’s it’s not an intentional karate kick um but I like the fact that he came back from that and ruled the air and so the things about FY that I don’t think are deeply rugi yet I think he’s still learning some of the nuances but I like a guy who’s better athlete than all the other guys on the other side on a is on an issue that comes up a lot at fullback which is going into the air and catching it who’s out leaping him who’s who’s out quicking him once he has the ball uh he has a superiority of that he knows when it’s one-on-one into the air he’s going to beat all those guys he’s going to beat Jordy Barrett he’s going to beat uh Liam Williams he knows how to get the ball in the air because he can hang now in terms of types of fullback you know we talked about vly earlier about the difference he’s made to the Bulls you know being a coach on the field everything but also those strategic kicks and then Jake said something in in the press conference last night as well about Deon Williams uh at the at fullback that uh if he only made a chip kick and that one break that he had he could have scored and he said vly wouldn’t have made that break true so you have this kind of fullback like a fussy and it’s what’s the right one which is the right choice it’s to me it’s horses for Cores so there are teams like the Wes you play against where FY would actually work really well remember that uh the kick that Jaden Hendrick have put up for Kanan moody in Sydney and uh it was spot on and Kanan just took it to the house and it was like nothing they could do to stop it they unless they wanted to chop him down at the knees they couldn’t have stopped it because the kick was perfect he could jump higher and once he hit the ground there’s no one going to catch him that’s fussy okay I’ll remember what’s that what’s Australian Wings name again the one that was so like flabbergasted when Cy just stole can stole the B from him cor cor yeah there we go I’ll never forget the look on his face what the hell just happened why is he 10 feet in the air yeah exactly yeah exactly the other deut BJ Dixon now do for you he was thinking too much I think uh for my blind side I just want people to move someone I want you to knock in the door I don’t want you to be too fussed about whether it’s legal or not just hurt people uh legally uh or illegally a little bit um it’s okay he didn’t I don’t think he heard his chances I just think I would look for a little bit more mongr from him uh on the day because that’s that’s what that test was about wells will always give you a nice gutter room Ballroom brawl like somebody insulted your mother and I’m going to go outside and beat you uh I wanted to see him more of that um but sometimes it takes a longer for one of those physical positions and Blindside might be the most difficult team most difficult position as a young guy to come in and play besides prop um you just you’re in Dark Places uh so but okay fine and then who else was it newbie uh no we covered them was Jord it was Sasha it was Ed and it was BJ Dixon yeah we covered them yeah I think I think I think we had a prop in but I forgot his name uh who came in he tunu tunu yeah yes yeah yeah he was good he was good now the thing is um one thing that bothered me a little bit was the The Ref ping Ox he pinged the dominant scrum you know that Dom for dominating too much yeah David flatman was really on that on Twitter said what what what else has he got to do he stayed Square he didn’t bail out didn’t walk around uh no that was that was just badly done but in all in all I’d say ref’s had a pretty good weekend I try not to talk about them anyway because it’s a losing thing once you go down that road now you start looking at every mistake uh in the main I think people I think teams could figure out what what the ref want what picture they wanted to see I hate that phrase but that’s what they say so on that subject of the RS ja was sort of hinting in the press conference hinting broadly ining what’s the right word quite openly that the way the ref blew the malls didn’t suit the bulls any any thoughts on that adapt adapt or die adapt or live L yeah this gets back to your other point about Ruan being a captain I think you know you can imagine uh if the captain is um John Smith if you can imagine the the captain is um C kisi uh with his best mate Ean I think they sort it out they figure it out they go okay so they’re doing this so let’s not only we stop doing what we’re doing let’s do more than they’re doing on what’s working and flip the script yeah so what do you think number one did the springbock experiment work and secondly what do you think we learned from this this call it an experiment against Wells it’s as important to know who’s not a test animal as it is to find test animals uh so I think it’s very well done to hide a really poor performance by Jordan Hendrick uh inside some superlative ones that’s what you want to do is have just enough not like Bloom Fain a couple years ago just enough where you still win the game and you win it comfortably five tries to one uh but you get to see what someone’s made of again not saying Jordan’s out forever I’m saying you know already now he has a mental issue with that level which is just a little bit up less time on the ball less time to decide you get smashed hard everything’s a little bit harder you you now you realize on the picking order maybe he’s fifth maybe he’s fourth maybe he’s there you know that’s okay and then you found a couple of people where you thought I’m pretty sure edil will be able to be okay but now you know he’s okay I want to just say something about this Jordan hendrix’s situation I I said this before you when he was picked I said this remember the big games I he faded Melia he he faded for the Lions every time there was a big game he faded and it just did it again on Saturday and he was running at the deep end starter in a in a test I’m sorry he just didn’t live up to I don’t think you said he might we might see him again I don’t think so honestly I don’t maybe as a center with a different position not a fly off yeah he he also might be a training ground guy so sometimes the coaches can only work with what they see in practice they don’t want to go with what the regional provincial uh franchise coaches think because sometimes they’re wrong they w’t actually see and maybe on the training ground he was Superstar probably that’s probably what happened and now they realize no it doesn’t translate into test it’s okay interesting thing I learned this week is uh man went along because Mani can emulate the opposition fly off he plays in in on the training ground like the opposition fly off does that’s one of the reasons why went with the squad even though he wasn’t selected interesting there’s a there’s there’s what is that I think it’s a basetball NBA they have a particular guy that makes every roster because he’s so good at mimicking LeBron James you know so it’s very difficult uh I I love that I love that kind of thinking actually I really like the way the Tony Brown attack looked it’s ragged you know people didn’t know where to be sometimes but you can imagine that same attack fitting in uh when DeLand came on for example it really cooked so when you had uh and dende um who was the outside creel that was nice that looked really penetrating it looked like a thing that the wings could feed off um so yeah I think that looks good as far as being stingy on defense Jerry Jerry um I think his his D look good too so I don’t think I don’t think it’s going to be a terrible um uh hangover babalas from nber I think I think the system’s bed in with enough cohesion that you can do a little twek or two uh I would love to see more Counterattack I thought the Bucks in the in the last three years were the best on Counterattack that twicken them game that ended Eddie Jones’s England career unbelievable just everyone go to the races everyone knows where to be a structured Counterattack like the kiwis do not pelm not looking around you know where the guy is and you don’t even have to think you just go I’m fliping to my right because I know that KLA is there always interesting to me how they how they how they planned that how can you train how can you plan for something that’s that’s unstructured and unexpect Ed and there’s still someone there that’s that’s next level coaching I think yeah so the KBS talk about how in the first two seconds when you get turnover ball that you need to make two passes boom boom like no one’s the nothing sticks uh no one pounds the ball into the sand or whatever they call it they have like they have a specific term and they they love the guys who you know when the ball’s on the ground and it’s and it’s fumbled and you have the advantage anyway you just don’t even catch you don’t even just flip it you literally bat it uh with your hand and next guy does it again because the minute now you’re in space with unstructured and you got a guy like creel or you got a guy like Colby we like that we always like that that’s that’s the only thing we want it’s so hard to get it if you fumble around with holding the ball or you start looking around or someone starts running around in circles you’ve already killed the moment now they reset so I think Tony Brown will bring that kind of kiwi Japanese uh Counterattack mentality and it’s going to be a question of what do you do in the first three seconds of a turnover and you’re not going to be playing if you don’t know how to do that completely irrelevant remark but quite um what’s the term that you would use here relevant it’s irrelevant but it’s relevant does it all these bloody players look like first world war heroes or something with their mustaches and their short hair Aaron Way wri has the worst one I swear he got carded just for the stash he look like n bu’s grandson I tell you yeah he’s no that’s not good I don’t know what’s going on there maybe it’s ironic no we joke about The KES before but anyway that’s think another game the trick in them experiment do you think that might it’s not a bad idea to do that annually I mean it’s a nice little Cofer filler if you want to call it that brand building Bo’s got to build brand uh it’s already one of the best Brands uh there’s so many sappers living in London it’s it’s beautiful I think it’s great um more of that pleased All Blacks I know have signed up to play some uh tests in the states again and again um those always seem to work out it’s okay you you’re always going to have a full amount in South Africa but there’s enough diaspora there’s enough people who B green and gold they just want to see a test it’s great right next before we get to the are index to to be able to look at that objectively and completely subjectively is we need to know what happened in the Super Rugby and I mean if if a final is a 4110 score line that doesn’t say much for the quality to the competition or competition or am I completely wrong here no there were three good teams uh the blues the hurens and the Chiefs and this is definitely one of those situations where the Chiefs play their final to beat the Hurricanes at home in Wellington had the canes survived and got into a final it would have been a better final like the blues hurricanes would have been the one and two you know throughout the whole season both of them only had two losses the Chiefs snuck in because they are a giant killer but they lost two hookers a week ago and you can scoff at that and say but if you lose two hookers or you lose two NES you’re kind of hosed I me there’s no way to play line outs uh and line outs are you know your Launchpad uh you look at the how that thing worked out um it just the blues brought their aame they played one of so when when one when the best team in the comp plays their best match of the comp at exactly the right time in the Grand Final you’re going to have a problem and so why I have the blues at number two in the Harry index by the way is I can imagine putting that all black front row uh Patrick taloto and then having Akira papali and um satu my big ball Runners so I have four Monster Ball carriers who don’t mess up they present really well and they always win the gay line and then behind them I have a like Caleb Clark Mark TOA untack leness Rico oani I mean anyone heard these guys yeah so you have all black attack machine you have Harry plumber playing a really good season like everyone scoffed at him but he’s he’s literally playing like a sort of polard type doesn’t mess up uh kick made all his kicks uh tackles well runs well so he ends up you know it was it was a route but I just think that shows that the blues would have would could and should and would do really well in a club club World Cup there’ll be a handful when you have that many all blacks and you have that many players who are could be they could play for other test teams and if you slotted any of those guys uh into the Premiership for example they’d be play they’d be like on the team of the Year quickly uh so tutu would 22-year-old rangy one-handed pick up at the base monster you offload he’s a nightmare um yeah so I loved it I thought it was a great game uh I like that the Eden Park was full um but yeah I was sorry the Chiefs didn’t show up yeah I was a bit disappointed as well I mean actually woke up and stood up got up early and made sure to to watch this game after I watched a bit of the England Japan shambles but yeah I mean it was nice to watch I like dami McKenzie he wasn’t really in the game not that not that much let with the one throw that was they didn’t get the ball they they they were like the Bulls in the second half in a way that they just couldn’t get into the game and when you give a team like the blues that kind of ball in your 22 they just keep running until they score it’s not even complicated I’m interested in your index I want to move on to that now and we’ll talk about the effect this you’ve only got one Super Rugby team in your top 10 which is now the blues the Champions and you’ve got them with number two and you said earlier that if to lose uh get beaten by um Bordeaux then the blues will be the best team in the world but the rest of the two super Ry teams don’t feature at all what does that say about the quality of that competition yeah so I don’t go with a uh simple League to League comparison the middle of Super Rugby isn’t that good that’s clear but the top is just good when you have that many all blacks and they were in the final of World Cup and I know just from my eyeball test that though that you know Caleb Clark do find in the top 14 Caleb Clark would be a star if he was at Glasgow um why do I know that because guys so so Super Rugby teams from South Africa played against that same caliber for ages and we know what happened uh we know that if it was Kyle stain versus Caleb Clark there’d be one outcome um we know that if it was uh you know that loose Trio is considerably better than the Bulls lose Trio at this moment will they you know will hukom be as good as satu back at the end I don’t know but right now dton papali Akira aani and and Hoskin satu is just one of the best loose trios going so I think they do fine as far as what would have happened if the Hurricanes had won then they would be in the top 10 they would they would I don’t know if they’d be near the top and depending on what happened in the final if they beat the blues then it would be them near the top uh but I do think that the irk has critical mass I think putting four teams from the irk in the top 10 sends a big message it sends a message that any one of those four teams lster monster bulls glasow any one of those four teams could have won the irk um you could argue that lster should have you could argue that monster should have you could say that the Bulls were one you know Aur tear away from winning so that’s fine top 14 I think is the underperformer here I think uh St fron and lelle didn’t look as good as I thought they were when they came down to the crunch time and the Harry index always values head-to-head best vers is best the most so the blues don’t get to play the best I’m just imagining unless I’ve missed something in the last 150 years that all blacks are pretty good at rugby that they do okay and then Premier ship’s the big loser uh in fact the Saints might tumble a little bit more depending on what happens in the final final but yeah I I I feel strong about it it’s funny is these clubs have reached out to me now the blues is chatting with me some of the French guys uh IR they actually taking the index seriously because I didn’t do it in a way where I just use numbers I I use my thinking cap the the problem for me with the top 14 is the number of games that they play those guys are out on their feet at the end of the season they play hundreds of games and I saw a stat this morning about how how few the super Ry guys play in comparison to what the guys in Top 40 play tests your depth they play in two different competitions as well I mean just stretches them that’s why they get paid the big bucks I suppose but I mean to me it’s a grind yeah it’s a grind I mean that that they that’s why they’re probably going to be sending be teams overseas lately as well that’s I see that’s what the guys are just they just they can’t play anymore by this time of the year at the end of the season they just dead and this I mean does that really helped the quality of the competition on your point on the semi-finals I did I looked across that issue exactly and to lose had only four players over a thousand minutes for the season larell had 11 over a thousand so it it showed at the very very end of it the point the end of it uh St Fon against Bordeaux Bordeaux had let me look at this uh Five Guys over a thousand uh Start Front say only two players in their starting 15 were under a th000 so heavy legs g-forces multiply that by you know number of carries number of tackles even if it’s a failed tackle and just the eye the stress on your body you could look at with hukom I mean hukom went off and you just felt like geez what would have happened if he was able to bodied um at top 14 they can take one guy off and put another test International in they can bring in Lani btia they can bring in uh you know Jack Willis they they are literally taking the best players from other countries and putting them on the field South African teams New Zealand teams will never have that uh luxury never there there’s no possible way that the best players from England Wales Ireland Scotland France are going to come play substantially play in the in the this half of teams yeah yeah that’s one of Jake’s biggest challenges I suppose now that uh if and he keeps it keeps hopping on about it bring the South African players back to back to South Africa and his theory was that you have a trickle down effect so the guys that are playing at the Bulls right now the ones that are sort of the SE team that I’m talking about you have these guys like arus nean coming back and he desperately wanted Jason Jenkins to come back for example that’s get to the Sharks which still sort of you know fulfills these criteria but then these guys coming to the team and the guys that are there at the Bulls for example or the Sharks whatever that are not just quite but they will move down to the next level to the Cheetos and theas and whatever and those guys will go down even further and it will St to the club systems and everything else he thinks it’s going to have that sort of a trickle down EIC I don’t think so I think the guys are just going to stop playing or leave these guys dropping down will go somewhere else um guy I speak to another guy I speak to there’s a lot of guys playing America or you said it um because they can’t they’re not good enough to find a place in South Africa I go to America get paid in dollars so I can’t see that theory really working that well and start and start so players like to starts the players like to get get minutes so if my choice is I can be the worst player on a great team or the best play player on a bad team don’t think that everyone picks the good team a lot of them actually say yo but I want to kick for goals what are my stats I want like Sam Wier is a very good Australian player we’re gonna have him on our pod 89 pod tomorrow he’s had a whole career in Seattle and Houston he’s the mlr leading Point getter what would his career been like if he was always the third string at the brumes and he got 50 minutes a season and you know is that really fun for a 26y old 27y old guy I don’t think so so I think we have to understand the world markets there sou African uh players are now very sophisticated not just Farm boys or guys from townships that you can you know tell us you got to do this you got to stay here are you’re giving up on the brand the B brand they don’t care I mean it’s like I’m going to go to Japan I’m gonna make I’m gonna Bank I’m gonna have per DM I’m gonna get skills uh looks like to me from each league you get different skills from Japan you get uh incredible aerobic fitness from uh playing in top 14 you get um you know physical you still you’re allowed to fight there uh from uh Premiership you get scrum um monery and playing in the irk now you get like the ability if you’re stepen kits off or someone like Aria you can actually still play with your mates but live in a different place maybe it’s fun I don’t know so I just think we have to understand like Jake’s right obviously that depth really matters but how do you how do you find the money yeah to pay snan to stay how he gets paid so much by lster now to jump from Monster to lster I was in the lift one day with Jake and he got a call from Yan ruper I should have asked him some money there they’re quite close those two some money around the money under the table the money around the table I had some interesting things this week state I’m talk about it that Jo interesting things anyway L we’ve covered an hour now believe it or not in total more than an hour so I suppose we have to wrap it up at some stage yeah that was laer man I appreciate that was laer let’s say it again this laer R report is getting laer there every week I think people like uh a solid rugby chat that’s unpretentious uh some of the people some of the reviews have been really interesting just the idea of being like really dig in I think sports on TV is very rushed you can never develop a point uh plus everyone’s trying to make their own personality brand and be all crazy I think it’s great man I think uh it’s good to talk to you I we the audience may not know this but we talk offline so uh it’s never enough so it’s all good man yeah you must just stop sending posting those pictures of the bus getting whipped like the Pyramid of he man that really hurt me I must be honest I took it down hey there’s only so much thinking a real like VP stormers fan uh died in the wool like you know that was all I cared about as a youngster was making the provincial team it’s hard for me to be all in blls I mean I I was with you guys but I’m not as devastated as you of course I I get that I mean I felt the same way Against The Storm as last year yeah I was supporting you but it wasn’t brokenhearted when you didn’t win it’s just the way it is and a little tiny and sometimes a little tiny chuckle at some that’s funny yeah I do think the Bulls should always have some sacran uh things that are never Disturbed One thing is a Bulls team should never have a non-dominance scrum another thing is if a Bulls team doesn’t have a solid line out like a killer like I’m talking like kick our line out it’s a it’s trouble so I think you can look at one thing just say was that Bulls pack uh did it bully Glasgow or was it somewhat bullied I’m not trying to taunt you I’m just saying there was a question about which pack bullied who that can never be the case that just going forward 2025 bulls have to always be the bully pack on the field in a final at home what made the Bulls of yester year dominant packs what what gave him the dominant packs lock we always ptor was always the lock Factory those two locks that we’ve got they’re great players but they’re too light I’m telling you now not hard workers they’re good guys that’s it yeah yeah that’s scary uh I’m with cam cam hanom on what he said A week ago he said if you come to lus you must it must be bad it must be bad for you it must be an unhappy experience the GL Glasgow warriors did not look unhappy they looked like a very happy camp Camp uh like a fagerson uh Jack Dempsey they looked like they were full of beans and ready to go I want to tell you something else yesterday um just we do this afans broadcasting and commentary I told you and I went to have get a quick beer and as I walked back up um the steps are quite small they’re only about this high so you I Mis miscalculated so I went like flying and almost dropped my entire beer on petero slop chips luckily I know him from talking to him so I went afterward listen I’m not drunk or anything I just m had a misstep here and he was laughing at me but it was quite funny he was there now both times last week he was there this week he was there on the the uh the guy always scored tries against the old blacks with that awkward stutter step after a while you realized after a while you realized that slap chips step was actually his step it wasn’t he wasn’t actually putting a step that’s just hands all over the place yeah that him he’s he’s coaching Paul Paul gynasium Paul gymnasium he’s the coach there at the moment so I think he would have understood your stumble because I always thought every try he scored he was stumbling yeah it looked like it was stumbling but he wasn’t that’s that’s a secret no it’s the funny thing you talked about even and I also talked about it yesterday about the cap wings or the the broke backs or the um the sabs compared to the kind of wing that he was complete opposites now he was tall he was lanky was fast but it wasn’t this kind of a thing complete change of style it’s such an interesting thing the like we call them cap backs uh they they they swivel like that’s why I said hip swiveling they just are able to turn and I think what it does is it allows 13 to play differently in the buck system it’s actually very interesting once you have a guy on the wing who can do double backs or steuart lanaster said double involvements which we saw on the weekend by edville it changes everything for the 13 then it can be more of a straight line you know George North coming down the pike you know stop me if you can uh cre type you don’t have to have a Lucano arm you know doing so much swiveling and I think it’s interesting on the break and on the counter if if you’ve got that in spare behind you and you know they can always double back and out aete someone then I think 12 and 13 can look a lot more Steamroller I know I tell you what now I’ve me the last two games last week when Sergio Peterson played and this week when uh gley was back there’s a huge difference and it’s not just the swivel B it’s the acceleration from Stand still yeah CT is like a cartoon he’s that fast he like you know unbelievable I saw I saw Sergio make a move on somebody and left him in the dust and I just thought like I’m with you he wasn’t you cannot put it all down on one even though I kind of have with akur at the moall but and he might have been injured too but I do think if the Bulls had been able to put more of a mismatch on the wings more often also would have been a different game I think Bulls could have scored their typical score you know 30 points sorry I keep hopping on about the Bulls but you know they scored 85 tries in in the normal season regular season record-breaking thy scores and they just never did anything yesterday you said like yourself you you said to yourself doco scored three tries we scored one the best St scoring team in the in in the competition highest points and everything they just took us out of the game and they outplayed us that was it yeah I looked I looked at I looked at how you guys got the 88 tries and I looked across and I said so what were the stats the Bulls were the best at across the comp across the season so it was kick retention so going up and getting the kick not enough of those not enough of those at all evasiveness top three um break line breaks going to try that didn’t happen and offloads you know like uh 183 offloads of the season and then you know in the final nothing um dominant tackles I’m talking rock you out of your socks tackles that didn’t really develop either uh there was one I think I saw but you know that that was they were too comfortable and then I think on the line out um yo it’s interesting I actually almost thought that the GL glasow had the better line out on the day which again to me’s DNA never be the case said they they they have what they call the line out committee and they targeted the bull specifically and he said he was UN happy of the committee because they didn’t prom deliver on what they promised they did very well but they could have done better and that was one of the things he was smiling about they targeted the long very smart that’s it’s very smart to take our opponent’s biggest strength away from him I love that I love that idea in Conflict you like you go in so [ __ ] sure about something and someone takes that very thing away from you it’s horrible then where do you go you know where do you go to your plan b or C you feel bad so you keep trying your plan a it doesn’t work and then the the match is over you know the funny thing I keep hoing on about this again but he comes from lenberg apparently Franco Smith he lived in bloom Fontaine coached cheetah and whatever and this this the fact that he was so he’s so at home in Scotland and he was so he’s being so welcomed so much he become part of the F Fabric and little story that he told when he walked in that right in the beginning one early one morning he brought poyan cups to the to the to the training ground and he got them each a bit of a sip of whiskey and he said taste this whiskey and remember it when you drink it again once you’ve won the UFC finals he made this mental connection to that’s good to winning that’s what that’s why I’m saying he can be a future springball coach it’s not just a little you know blunt run over them kind of a coach he’s the kind of a Russy coach who thinks further than just what happens on the field there’s more to it than just tactics and strategy and malling and whatever else it might be and that’s what I like smart goach rugby is thinking guys actually you know you compare our sport against other sports there’s not that many sports that have as interesting people in the locker room uh you got to tell him a story I think that’s brilliant by the way of having you drink now we drink again that’s beautiful that’s good storytelling that’s uh beginning of the Story Once Upon a Time and then the end and they all lived happily ever after um look man people like stories yeah they do but now our time is officially up again so I’m going to call it today I appreciate it D it was La we’ll talk soon too cheers this is the Lea rugby part with Harry Jones and mvia velman [Music]