David Glenn, who made a name for himself by hosting The David Glenn Show–a sports talk radio show that was heard throughout North Carolina for decades, has helped the North Carolina Sports Network surpass 10k subscribers in less than a year.
He rejoins the show to talk about the upcoming college football season, the Carolina Panthers and more!
BR it on W some get some how about those freaking Pirates PIR you have to go with the Pirates cuz of course they have cannons and everything it’s a pirate’s life for me be proud of who you are and what you are you’re pirate it is a first down pus because when you’re at East Carolina you got go for it every time well you don’t coach at East Carolina you don’t come to East Carolina you don’t play at East Carolina with a weak heart WR it I think I’ve ever been in a building as loud as that was it was deafening in there will get I can promise you that ped purple all night long in eastern North Carolina watching the sports objective the podcast for pirates [Music] yeah yeah yeah yeah my heart is purple and gold I’m a pirate down welcome in to the sports objective as we hear myself and a great friend I guess the guys will’ll see if they’re coming but hey my dear friend uh I was thinking back I think it’s 13 years now he’s known me put up with me and he hasn’t killed me yet David Glenn from the NC NC Sports network.com David man DG how are you I’m doing well Dave and I absolutely love that intro so credit to you and your team for putting that together I’ve been with you many many times but I don’t remember that specific intro first class stuff and you know I always enjoy joining you so it’s good to be with you again absolutely there’s a lot to talk about is there it’s funny we we used to joke with each other about the back of the studio about the offseason there is no real offseason anymore and I think it started about the time I met you with LeBron going from uh Cleveland to Miami and you know the that famous thing with Jim Gray but long time ago 2010 to be exact the summer of 2010 and all of a sudden became the offseason was the end NBA free agency uh one uh curveball I’m will give you um but it’s basketball related I know you’re a Philly guy but I have to say I was really happy with the Celtics winning for the sake of the NBA I think that was great for basketball it is hard for me as a Philly guy to be happy when anything good happens to the Boston Celtics yeah um however I’m okay with it I mean I still do root for the Sixers I also root for the Hornets although they’re not very good very often since I’ve been down here heck I’ve lived here for more than 35 years at this point so I’ve adopted all the instate teams uh but it was great to see a town that loves a city that loves basketball as much as Boston does uh cash in again because that’s one of those cities where basketball is a front page story 52 weeks a year and right nobody has won more NBA titles I hate to say it but it’s true than the Boston Celtics who now have 18 and they had been stuck on 17 for a long long long 2009 or 10 nine or 10 somewhere around there last time they won one was it might have been eight but somebody um it’s it’s been way more than a decade and the Celtics you know way back under red hour back were cranking am out like chicklets you know every year or almost every year it felt like like John Wooden was winning the NCAA titles at UCLA it was crazy uh so yeah I have a hard time smiling about that the Celtics news but I gave where you’re coming from yeah I was a Celtics fan before the Hornets and uh because we had no team and I was a huge F fan of those guys back in the day with like Larry Bird and Mel and Robert Parish I could what’s funny is when you’re a kid like my son now Alex you can name every single player on just about every team and now I’m lucky to know a handful of guys because I have more to life than just a basketball learning about the NBA however I think to fairness to me these uh video games are amazing now where my son will say with MLB the show Dad you know the shortstop for the San Diego Padres and I’m like uh no I’m lucky to know a padre but um anyway the with YouTube and all the technology now it’s easy to see and understand why they know so much more than I’ll ever know uh for sure as far as one of the reasons we want to have you on tonight is uh to help me understand I’m trying really really hard to understand I’ve been at grips with this for almost three years but still the nil picture right now is really really hard to wrap your he like what we talked about on the show numerous times with you is what we thought was unfair with nil you’re selling merchandise you got Johnny Football who got in trouble years ago maybe a decade ago for signing autographs I have no issues with that I think that those guys definitely should get paid because they’re a brand the issue that I have now as you know um you and I are you’re a little bit older than I am but back in the day with a Southwest Conference with SMU th those guys were doing it before it was legal uh to pay players and so we know that it goes on especially basketball which you have a good grip on with ACC there’s guys getting money we know under the table and handshakes and different things however now it’s just blatant so my we wanted to have you on because not only is the summertime and I know you have probably your sabatical at some point so I want to reach you before the sabatical yeah I think it’s in July but um as far as the as far as nil is concerned and college football is concerned that particular sport how do we rain things back in is it too late for that is it like the toothpaste is already out of the tube we will not go backward that part is true uh we are in the midst of more change though and frankly name image likeness has only been around for three years right and and within those three years Dave if you were say a compliance director at ECU or any other school you would have had a hard time keeping up with what was legal and what was illegal when it comes to how College athletes receive name image likeness money right one quick example in January of this year so 2024 Florida State football got in trouble and an assistant coach at Florida State ended up getting personally penalized because he drove a recruit to the name imaged likeness Collective of Florida State and the rules at the time said that if you work at the school you cannot participate in that name image likeness money does not right now come directly from the school right schols at the time also prevented coaches and other staff members from connecting the dots you can’t you can’t connect the the the high school or incoming player transfer maybe with the collective again that’s a third party it’s a lot of people get this confused it is not the universities giving name image likeness money directly to their own players that’s not how it has worked for the last three years it might be that starting as soon as next year but it’s not that yet and the rules have been have changed frequently but as recently in January you could get in trouble as a assistant coach simply for driving that recruit or that incoming player to the collective just to have their conversation and again they’re allow to take that money from that Collective that’s not illegal but the fact that the coach brought them together was a violation and then he lied about it and made things worse and ended up personally penalized in Florida State it wasn’t a big penalty but the seminal got penalized uh because they violated the rules now those rules have changed more than a dozen times in the three years that we’ve had name image likeness but it’s not going away the details may change again but you know the bottom line when the NCAA tries to restrict what its players can get in most contexts the NCAA gets sued and the NCAA loses why is that the case because folks just have to think about how it works in Pro Sports why is a professional athlete not allowed to pick his own team every year sounds like something we would want in America right Freedom why why can’t an NFL player say I’m gonna play for the co the the Eagles this year the Bills next year the Patriots because lawyers on behalf of NFL players Association negotiated with lawyers on behalf of NFL owners and they they adopted a system that both sides agreed to right and when you agree as adults on a system while both sides are represented by attorneys and you know what you’re getting well then you can have an NFL draft that would otherwise be illegal you can have to make a player wait for free agency which otherwise would be illegal why is it not illegal because it was collectively bargained between a Players Association and a professional sports organization there is no such collective bargaining in college sports so the n the NCAA just imposes rules they don’t negotiate with anybody they just tell you how it’s going to be well that was good in the 60s and 70s and 80s and 90s little by little uh they’ve been challenged on various rules that they’ve imposed they’ve even gotten sued and lost when they tried to impose some restrictions on coaches so the anca track record in the court of law is almost as bad as the Washington generals who are paid to lose to the Globe Trotters every time and and you know in entertaining basketball games the the NCAA doesn’t always lose but it’s it usually loses and its track record recently has been horrible and in fact if you’ve read about something called the house settlement that is going to change the way ECU and everybody does business it was it was a law suit and a judge has not approved of the settlement yet but I believe that probably starting not this upcoming Academic Year but possibly starting the following Academic Year 25 to 26 that universities will be allowed to funnel name image likeness money to their own players oh wow it’s been all third parties to this point right it’s Bob’s tractors paying the player for this for being on a billboard or or pumping his stuff on social media or doing the autograph signing which is legal now right right all sorts of things you can even have your own clothing line now if you want to right um starting possibly in the fall of 2025 I believe that NCAA schools are going to have the ability to funnel a certain percentage of their Athletics Revenue to their own athletes in the form of name image likeness money and I can promise you that has not been allowed for these last three years that we’ve had it right so let me ask you that and I’ll come back to uh speaking of uh NCAA with the Supreme Court I got something for you on that but as far as that’s concern so let’s say the East Carolina with the pirate club are you saying the pirate club would be able to do the nil money that’s something that we’ve wanted is that something we’ll be able to do it would be the athletic department itself okay internally so it it’s it’s a little complicated and again it’s not done yet there’s a proposal in front of a federal judge right now that both sides have agreed to but the judge still has to say yes and sign off on this new system it’s hard to describe in a small amount of words but basically roughly 20% you know I don’t know ecu’s Athletics budget off the top of my head it’s 45 50 million I think Bubba and uh is let’s call it 50 million just for the sake of argument okay okay 20 20% of a un of of a University’s not the entire athletic budget this is where it gets complicated 20% of certain revenues like your media rights Revenue um royalty type revenues but but not booster donations that’s actually a different category 20% of certain revenues will be saved or up to 20% it’s going to be up to the individual universities whether they want to spend the this nil money all the way to the 20% mark it might end up at 22% again these things are still being discussed um but for the first time ever ecu’s own athletic department 20% of 50 million is 10 million ECU would have the right to spend $10 million of its own athletic department money on their own players wow so that would actually in the form of name image liken this as long as this federal judge in California signs off on this house settlement again it’s not the law of the land yet but it might become that starting in Fall 2025 and that may help those of us that are on the bubble if you will with power schools we are so close we can maybe so close but yet so far away when it comes to the Atlantic Coast Conference which you know very well and the SEC there was a rumor going around I mentioned to you a couple months ago about ACC May uh may be having East Carolina as like a fallback plan if uh you know North Carolina it was a whole bunch of teams would have to leave um and I told you that and you said it was basically speculation back then um real the the only way the AC the last thing in the world the Atlanta Coast Conference wants is more schools in North Carolina right I mean because part of the winning formula is spreading your teams out right the new Big 10 literally will go from the Pacific Ocean to the Atlantic Ocean they’re adding Oregon Washington Southern C UCLA so the whole West Coast they’ve already been in the Midwest and about a decade or so ago they added ruter which is in New Jersey touches the Atlantic Ocean uh and Maryland for example so that’s truly a nation they’re they’re not add they’re not they’re not seeking to add schools in the states where the Big 10 already has schools right so that’s what’s been working against these among other things North the ACC has four 70 plus year members of the Atlantic Coast Conference in the state of North Carolina so there is no way on God’s green earth that another instate School becomes a member of the ACC unless as you said if Bo if if both state and Carolina large public universities here in North Carolina if they both left the ACC for other leagues well then anything is possible um at that point you know the future of the ACC would be really hard to predict we’re not close to that by the way Florida State and Clemson are trying to get out of the ACC as we speak but UNCC and NC State are playing wait and see on those lawsuits like just about everybody else yeah I uh going back to the Supreme Court really quick it it’s amazing to me and I tell people all the time and you’re a lawyer but I love obviously um I have a political science degree don’t hold and I’m a town commissioner so don’t hold that against me being a politician now but I said if you think the NCAA how bad it is I’ll tell you how bad the NCAA is most of the time the court is split 54 now 63 you know and pretty much party lines if you want to say liberal conservative however you play that out I said the NCAA lost so bad it was 9 nil nine to nothing on nil nine to nothing let that sink in for you when you know the court is pretty much divided but every single Justice agreed with each other and that hardly I mean how many cases does that happen DG it’s not many no not many at all especially given the current makeup of the United States Supreme Court and you know the reality back when you know when I started covering college sports in the late 1980s there wasn’t a lot of money to go around I mean there was the occasional $1 million a year coach right but that was only at the biggest schools and the biggest Sports well if you fast forward gradually Heckman 20 years ago there was not this extraordinary level of money being thrown around um the the amount of the the amount of the check that you received 20 years ago even if you were a member of the ACC which was the wealthiest conference in America at the time it was only 10 or 12 million a year that you got from your conference office now that is a lot of money in in a lot of contexts but and that’s 20 years ago okay 10 to 12 million a year the size of that check that ACC schools get from the league office every year is over40 million dollar a year now wow yeah and in the Big 10 it’s over $50 million a year and Rising so that’s a pretty dramatic change in 20 years and what does it bring it brings a lot of lawyers sniffing around because the the size of the pie in college sports keeps growing growing growing growing what was 10 to 12 million a year in that annual check from your conference 20 years ago is now 40 50 almost 60 per year per School uh well the if the players were still getting mostly room board in tuition which is what they got in like 1950 there’s going to be a lot of people asking a lot of legal questions about how you came up with this system and whether it’s legal or not and of course for reasons that I explained before if you want to just impose your will in a mega billion dollar industry and make up the rules uh as as you know it’s powerful people who run these universities that are members of the NCAA and it’s powerful people who run the NCAA and they just get to make up the rules for the most part about what these 18 to 21 year olds 20 whatever 24 year old year olds now uh the rules they have to play by and in our country it just doesn’t work that way at some point whether you call it a union or collective bargaining you don’t have to use those terms if you don’t want to but at some point there’s going to be a negotiated new framework for College athletics and as I’ve explained to you in your audience in the past the NCAA went from a hundred years of telling the United States Congress to stay out of their business they don’t need your help Congress to the last three years begging Congress to approve a new system for the future of college sports why does the NCAA want Congress to do it because if Congress imposes a system the NCAA feels better about not getting sued well they just say oh we did we didn’t we’re not doing anything wrong Congress approved this new framework of course the United States Congress is somewhat divided understatement oh yeah just as the Supreme Court is somewhat divided understatement so uh that has that that has not going to happen anytime soon and that means that this house settlement is probably going to be the replacement for an active Congress again a federal judge is being asked to approve essentially the framework for the future of college sports and again it looks like these athletes are well they are going to get a bigger slice of the pie we’re just not sure in what form it’s going to take it’s very complicated but I have a lot of people that I’ve explained for example uh right now it’s a really hard ask and here’s what I’m going with that so you have people like me who and a lot of people watching the show and listening to our podcast who are buying season tickets okay members of the pirate club you have a $60 million ambitious Campaign which we finally are doing thankfully uh which includes the indoor practice facility it has upgrades to mes which they’ve already done to the basketball Coliseum um the baseball expansion uh which we’re about a half a million if uh we can get some David Glenn’s money um or your son Anthony I’m sure he has a lot of money just being a recent graduate in the last couple years um but anyway that’s about half a million away but my point is and then you have n which are great friends at Team Boneyard with um Hank Hinton and Henry Hinton and all them um you’re looking at four buckets right now yeah four buckets and if you include there’s a spin-off of Team Boneyard team 23 um that great because it’s baseball only for Cliff Godwin and Company but you’re looking at potentially You could argue five buckets so that’s the really hard part I have is that I want everyone to understand is that at some point when is enough enough because uh most of my honestly most of my entertainment dollars go to East Carolina I’ve cut out tremendously especially the biggest thing to suffer is I love to go to the movies but the movies are so expensive now sorry movie theaters but um I put all my money towards ECU but when is enough enough when those of us that are middle class um I’m only rich in name I don’t I’m not a rich dude which I’m not a million dollar donor um but I’m giving a lot of my income to East Carolina and I’m not the only one so I’m not saying DG I’m the only one but when does that stop it doesn’t stop really um these schools are not going to ask for Less from their supporters at some point universities are going to have to decide and this actually H has happened throughout history occasionally universities will have to decide what role they want Athletics to play on their campus and the sad reality is that if you’re not at a school with lots and lots of people willing to reach into their pockets and sometimes you know you know how this works Dave I I don’t have a work knowledge of how many you know billionaires there are who are products of ECU academically are supporters of the Pirates I I don’t know how long that list is it’s not many but I tell you one that graduated and played football and that’s Vince McMan he yeah I mean he came me as well now I don’t know off the top of my head that number at Alabama or UNC or Michigan or any Ohio State or these other schools either but the bottom line is the SEC and the Big 10 are making such extreme amounts of money mainly through their media rights deals and those dollars have gone way up as I described just within the last 20 years and now the playoff is expanding and that’s even more money for mostly the power conferences right as they’re called and and you and this is another Genie that you can’t put back in the bottle eventually everybody like you know a Wake Forest in the Atlantic Coast Conference has a chance of being left behind if Florida State and Clemson and maybe someday UNC and others leave for either the Big 10 or the SEC there’s a chance Dave that we’re evolving toward a world in college sports where there’s two or three Mega conferences and just like long ago schools had to decide do I want to play you know it used to be called onea and one doublea football it was two levels of commitment it was two different how many scholarships do you have it was 85 at one level and it was a lesser number at the next level how much you know how many fannies can you fit into your Stadium are you going to get to the point where there’s a 100,000 seats in your football stadium the way some schools already have are you going to be okay at 50,000 and little by little I’m not talking about in the next year or two but over a longer Horizon schools are going to have to decide how far up that Financial ladder they’re willing to go as part of a a university that of course was created for academic purposes and Athletics are only supposed to be one arm of that University well that arm has gotten bigger and bigger and bigger and bigger in terms of the dollars to the point where most schools have to charge fees to their students to to help subsidize the athletic department we do at East Carolina absolutely now the wealthiest athletic departments are so wealthy some of those schools don’t charge their students a dollar for that and most schools that aren’t in that upper echon are charging millions of dollars at least collectively right so the school has to make a philosophical decision and as much as it’s not fun to hear because I know your heart is behind the Pirates and I know your dollars are behind the Pirates when push comes to shove this this country and college sports get extraordinarily capitalistic and the the bottom line capitalistic approach to something is if you can’t afford it you can’t have it that you know that’s the bottom line doesn’t mean it’s right doesn’t mean it’s happy sad right wrong happy sad up down whatever right if you don’t have enough money you can’t play in one of the biggest leagues and if your fans don’t have enough money then you can’t pay coaches a certain amount uh subsidize the athletic department with that that third party name image likeness money when that new world is created that I described where the the the athletic department itself is going to be able to funny funnel name image like this money that does not mean those third parties will stop there will still be additional name image likeness money coming from outside so you know ECU and schools like ECU need more people like you they they need more Vince mans who not only have the cash but spend it on that school’s Athletics these big schools man how did SMU get into the Atlantic Coast Conference largely because wealthy insanely wealthy people subsidized it they raised how many million in like a short like days they just like 30 40 million it’s something crazy I remember their annual booster donations and I’d have to double check this number I don’t want to you know how I am about factual accuracy I believe the number was $158 Million which was the largest of any University in the entire country that’s what SMU athletics raised from its booster donations $18 million do in a year now it was an unusual year as you mentioned a lot of that was in conjunction with hey you know the ACC says we can come but we’re not not allowed to take the acc’s media money for quite a while which leaves a big gap in the budget these Mega gazillionaires essentially subsidized a University’s jump from one League to another yeah you know what SMU stands for right Southern millionaires University there you go so a lot of people thought Tom Dundon the owner of the Carolina Hurricanes hockey team in our backyard as an SMU guy I I did not well now I I guess he’s technically not a North Carolinian but if he were he’d be one of the I don’t know couple dozen wealthiest people in this state I think there’s what 10 billionaires 12 it’s it’s in the 10 to 20 range I think now yeah uh by the way want to say hello to our good friend Justin buts who um DG is a baseball I know he’s a baseball umpire and I believe other umpires but I always tell him I won’t hold that against him because uh I’m kind of critical of uh officials but I love you Justin you’re the best uh John White this is a subject we’ve been talking about and our good friend Bubba who couldn’t be with us tonight he has a question for you about the US Open I’ll get to that in a second uh John says that 20% allowance it pass will send the super conferences way above the middle major schools Big 10 and SEC will dominate ACC goes away eventually what are your thoughts on that well the the Big 10 and the SEC are already the wealthiest um but they don’t they don’t dominate in everything for example the the the NCAA baseball championship was just held and the mighty Big 10 didn’t do squat right right they’re they’re often completely irrelevant in the sport of baseball and oh by the way they almost never win the NCAA Men’s Basketball Tournament either that’s a pretty important sport uh the SEC of course has been King in football so my my main point is just being wealthier doesn’t automatically make you better but it helps right I mean the a the ACC hasn’t stopped winning national championships even it has as it has fallen behind financially and that that’s not my opinion you can just do your own research and see you know it was Virginia winning the NCAA title in basketball and then it was Carolina and and it was Duke I mean that’s three of the last however many just from the ACC in basketball and oh by the way Clemson has two Florida state has one NCAA title in the last decade plus so that’s the ACC in very important sport football just within the last is a dozen years at this point um where the ACC has three national titles in that sport among many others so it’s not as simple as the richest always win the most but over time of course it matters and the Gap is growing in terms of the future of the ACC Florida State’s going to leave that’s part is not a question it’s what does it cost Florida State to leave how do these arguments how how does the argument go over the the exit fee which is one number and how does the argument go about the grant of rights which is a an even bigger number and those lawsuits are playing out as we speak uh I I don’t think it’s likely that they’re going to get to leave for a small amount of money the Florida State and Clemson fans telling you they’re going to leave for nothing are delusional and uninformed and they have really bad sources of information it’s not going to be that easy to leave um now it might not be the 400 million plus to leave either the lawyers are battling that out but Florida State could leave probably for the Big 10 uh once they get their legal mess figured out and the cost of departure figured out it’s not as simple for everybody else because remember the Big 10 and the SEC are in A League of Their Own the Big 12 is in a very similar predicament as the ACC obviously the Pack 12 just imploded doesn’t exist anymore so there’s two leagues at the top and they’re kind of making all the rules to a degree and then there’s the ACC and the Big 12 on a second tier and then there’s everybody else far below that so maybe the ACC disappears but maybe it doesn’t disappear it’s it’s not that clear yet because remember the Big 10 and the SEC have to decide how big do they want to be and you don’t just invite schools just to get bigger why would the Big 10 invite Florida State because Florida State can make them money the Big 10 is not yet in the very populous state of Florida right and Florida state has a very good football brand and a great following and good TV numbers so Florida State can bring more to the table for the Big 10 then it would cost as another mouth to feed the people predicting total doom and chaos don’t realize that there are not a lot of schools that would make more money for the Cc or for the Big 10 then they would cost as another mouth to feed right so I mean UNC would get an invitation from either the Big 10 or the SEC again it’s new geography a very strong sports brand academics and academics help absolutely especially with the big 10 um and Clemson is a good football brand so maybe maybe the Tigers get an invitation but it’s not as simple as most people think you start to run out of money at some point again like the SEC is already in South Carolina and Florida it’s not as huge of a TV boost if the seals or the Tigers join the SEC because the SEC already has the Gamecocks in the Gators in those same States so yeah you’d be adding two big football Brands but for now the SEC seems very happy at 16 schools and I do think the Big 10 is is going to get bigger it’s about to go to 18 in the next few weeks and I I think it’s I think Florida state is going to become number 19 in the Big 10 at some point again that could be it could be a year away two years away whenever the legal stuff plays out um who who does the Big 10 go for number 20 we all know they would love Notre Dame but Notre Dame does not appear to be willing to give up its football Independence so do they offer Clemson as number 20 do they offer North Carolina as number 20 I think there’s a chance they offer Texas A&M trying to lure Texas A&M away from the SEC to become number 20 why big big New State plus the Aggies hate the fact that the SEC just invited the Texas Longhorns right and we all know the agies would not want that and they didn’t think it would ever happen and they probably had conversations a decade ago hey if we come to the SEC you guys are never going invite the Longhorns are you and they’re probably told no we don’t see that on the horizon at all and maybe that was the honest answer at the time well fast forward agie sure as heck didn’t vote to bring Texas into the SEC and that’s why some people believe the Aggies would listen if the Big 10 I mean you and again put yourself in the Big 10 shoes how do we get even richer well the seals are good in football and a new very populous state Texas A&M has a pretty good track record in football football and they’re in another most populous state so you’d go from the Big 10 already controlling the Midwest to adding the three most populous states in the country which matters for purposes of TV eyeballs you’re at in California with UCL and Southern Cal already they’re coming in this summer you’d be adding Florida in the form of the seals you’d be adding Texas in the form of the Texas A&M agies you want the dream the dream lineup for Big 10 even if you pretend Notre Dame days out there in football independent land the dream lineup is someday again Florida state would be number 19 Texas A&M or UNC would be their dream number 20 and then they’d have to decide how much bigger they want to get uh just as the SEC at some point has to decide if they want to get bigger than 16 schools but it doesn’t mean the ACC and the big TW Big 12 disappear it doesn’t that doesn’t automatically happen um but there could come a time where those two wealthiest leagues try to have their own Championship if they find the right TV partners for that right again none of that’s happening in the near future I’m just playing it out you know well well down the line and even into the next decade I’m going to come back to football B Bubba has a Pinehurst question with the US Open real quick he said a DG did you attend the US Open what was your take on the excellent finish with Rory and Bryson plus the event as a whole I heard many talking about how they wish it was played at Pinehurst more I was there briefly uh the good news is our state has gone from never hosting the US Open which was the case as recently as 1998 to now we have hosted four of the last 25 us opens so I think that’s correct 1999 was the first 2024 is the most recently so what that yeah four of the last 26 we’ll say um that’s a great sign and all four of those by the way were at Pinehurst number two and I do think Pinehurst number two will get more us opens I don’t know how quickly um but by the way the PGA Championship is coming to Quail Hollow and Charlotte next year next year so I think we’ve hosted seven golf M obviously the Masters stays at Augusta National so we’ll never be able to host that uh the British Open stays overseas so we can’t host that so we only have two we can host and I believe next year will be the fourth time we’ve hosted the PGA championship and we just hosted the US Open for the fourth time so I think that’s great for the golf culture of a state that we all love so much um Pinehurst is is essentially for those who have been there or haven’t been there it’s it’s a a village right it’s it’s not one of the you know 20 biggest cities in North Carolina I mean it’s it’s a fairly small place and it I I loved the train from Raleigh to Pinehurst which is great oh it was only a temporary thing but all the headaches that you can get with travel and traffic and parking um a lot of people in the triangle area took advantage of that option it’s only like $50 round trip right DG correct it was a very reasonable price especially given what you would have had to pay for parking or whatever right so I mean it’s almost a freebie when you add it all up and and nobody had to worry about driving traffic parking headaches you got off the train a and that walk was less than the length of a football field wow yeah yeah so you got to where I mean maybe not your final destination but you got into the US Open in a short walk getting off that train so um I I loved the golf there was a lot of um North Carolina Pride there was a lot of chance of USA USA when a guy like you know an American like Bryson Des Shambo some don’t like him because he went to live golf but he is an American and there were a lot of USA chants whenever he would do well I thought the fans were overwhelmingly well behaved you know at the Masters they take your phone at at uh I don’t know the all the rules the USGA does at all Sites but at Pinehurst they did not take your phone so it does require people behaving not drinking too much turning off their their phones to not distract the golfer you know turning off the sound and and and everything that I saw was very positive and everything I heard from officials and golfers was very positive and obviously in the end Bryson’s going to be celebrated Payne Stewart celebrated to this day for his amazing finish in 1999 before his tragic death um and I think Bryson’s going to be celebrated forever for that incredible sandshot and subsequent putt on on number 18 and unfortunately Rory mroy a guy I really admire a lot as a person and as a golfer unfortunately he’s going to be remembered for missing those two short short putts on the final three holes and you know letting get away what would have been his first major title in over a decade right he’s not an old guy but you know when you’ve gone more than a decade without winning a major people start wondering if you’re ever going to win another major and that was as close as he has gotten uh along with some other runner-up finishes I just thought it was great for our state great for the sport of golf and I’m glad the US Open comes to North Carolina because guys if you if you look at the list of of US Open venues it is overloaded with courses in Massachusetts and New York State um Pennsylvania Minnesota Wisconsin even Northern California why because it’s in the middle of June and it’s hot in the South right so the US Open doesn’t want its golfers in Texas and Florida in mid June right so they all almost always pick Northern courses so I’m glad that they perceive Us in North Carolina as far enough North that we get lumped in with Pennsylvania and and New York and Massachusetts rather than getting lumped in with Texas and Florida which do not get they don’t get to host us opens so I’m glad we’re seen that way and I think that means we’re going to continue to get the US Open and just a sidebar really fast I don’t think Louisville is going to be hosting any PGA Championship anytime probably not that was not well runer disaster yeah here’s one from John White a great former pitcher by the way for the East Carolina Pirates he said ESPN uh analytics said any pro golfer had less than 1% chance of getting that sand shot within four feet I believe that and I I actually heard Bryson say earlier in his career he is he’s he’s not scared by this type of shot that type of shot a bad lie this this a lot of the things that gave other golfers their most serious nightmares did not bother Bryson as much he was quoted long before the shot that you just referred to as saying his nightmare golf shot is being ask and I can identify with this as a weekend warrior golfer sand shots are hard enough as it is right like if you’re just blasting out I find that hard I could probably skull it over the clubhouse uh one out of 10 times but I might be close one out of ten times but I at least know what I’m trying to do when you’re asked to carry fif Bryon said my nightmare this is again way before this year’s US Open he said my nightmare shot is being asked to carry a bunker swing 50 plus yards in the air and stop next to the pin well what did he have to do you know I don’t know the exact yardage but I believe the 1% and that’s 1% of Pros not just 1% of golfers which says a lot about the extreme difficult nature of that shot man un unbelievable he deserves it and I know you guys saw this part if you’re golf fans but Bryson let’s put it bluntly I’m from Philly we speak bluntly if you listed the 10 guys most known as jerks in the golf world over the last 10 years Bryson’s name would have been on that list oh wow in Pinehurst and this has been an evolution not not a light switch change but more of a you know an accumulation of things Bryson was as fan friendly and kind most golfers do not Bop you like if Dave if you and I and Bubba and everybody else and Kyle were were hold holding our hands out just to a little high five as the golfers going from one green to the next t nine times out of 10 they just don’t like to do it and I don’t even blame them they make their they make their living with their hands and their wrists I mean imagine like just a Bop gone wrong and you feel like I just injured you know one of the 10 best players in the world so I get it and there’s always kids reaching out for autographs and stuff like that Bryson high-fived and bopped I mean it must have been hundreds if not more than a thousand people over the course of those four days and many more during the practice rounds and you might have seen on TV where he stopped to see the young man in a wheelchair and and what was that the 17th hole or off the 17th or 16th green I forget the exact detail but nine times out of 10 as even if it’s in a guy’s heart to say hello to this special needs young person you’re trying to win a golf tournament you’re trying to win a major you’re trying to change your future and Bryson in that environment stopped and and spoke to that young man and signed his cap and gave him a high five and and and that was symbolic of how he handled people he’s not been great at handling the people part of being a professional athlete and a lot of fellow PGA Tours Pros would have called him one of the biggest jerks on the tour at various times in the last 10 years you know you never know what’s real and what’s not real um maybe cynic think it was all for show and a marketing person told Bryson he needed to behave differently uh I’m not quite that cynical so I’m just going to hope that the Bryson and Shambo we saw win at Pinehurst that that’s the real authentic personality of a young man who maybe realizes that he was not always his best self earlier in his career and is getting better at just the basics of how to treat people and also uh as we bring in Kyle from L Grange Barber also DG the fact that he has a responsibility now because he’s a champion it’s a whole different level which is obvious to our listeners and viewers tonight we’re going to bring in Kyle from the gra Barber who joins us and uh now we’ll go back shift back to college football our good friend Bubba who couldn’t be with us tonight Bubba Rosen bomb he has another question for you DG when Brett ymark was hired it was an outside the box hired by the Big 12 discuss the recent news it may soon become the Allstate meaning All State Insurance Allstate conference yeah that’s a great question Bubba um it’s it’s going to happen I was asked maybe a decade ago when we were first starting to see the ACC fall behind financially and the Big 10 and the SEC were were signing new TV deal deals and just truly skyrocketing away from the Big 10 and the ACC and at the time the P 12 and I was asked you know if you were John Swafford at the time the ACC commissioner Brett ymark in Bubba’s question is the current Big 12 commissioner I was asked you know what what would you do to try to keep up financially what well you don’t have a magic wand to make your football product better for those who don’t know why do the SEC and the Big 10 make more money than everybody else TV wise because more of their fans watch football that’s the starting point I mean you might say winning well yes but TV Partners really don’t care as much about wins and losses they care about how many millions of people are watching your games and it’s not only Michigan and Ohio State fans watching a lot of football in the Big 10 it is not only Alabama and LSU fans watching a lot of football like in certain markets people live and die by college football and that’s again the starting point to understanding all of this financially is who watches the most college football and the answer is the largest numbers are a whole bunch of alumni bases in in the Big 10 and a whole bunch in the SEC why do I bring that up well because you don’t have a w magic wand to upgrade your football product you need to get creative and whereas most things that are brand new cause people indigestion most people I’ve ever met fundamentally dislike most change so if I were the ACC commissioner and I said let’s sell The Branding rights to the name of our conference the way 50 years ago people would have thought that was outrageous if you did it to your Stadium well now everybody accepts that that of course we’re not going to call it Sharp Stadium we’re g to call it Bank of America Stadium and get Bank of America to pay us a lot of money to put that name on The Stadium hundred years ago there weren’t sponsors for Bowl names right it was the Orange Bowl and the Cotton Bowl well now what is it they all have a corporate name before you know it’s the Chick-fil-A Peach Bowl and Chick-fil-A pays millions of dollars for the right to that so 10 years ago when I was asked this question the two things that I said is unless there’s a NCAA rule against it sell the rights to the name of the league and unless there’s an NCAA rule against it start putting the names of advertisers on your jerseys yes and and you know I would have known people would hate me right what the heck is Glenn doing nobody’s ever done that the big 10’s gonna laugh at us the SEC is gonna laugh at us this is non-traditional we don’t do the same stuff that you know minor league baseball or or whatever they they’d find something to Mock and I’d say I my response would have been go ahead and mock me I know people don’t like change but my answer raises US money and we can look at the big 10 and the secc and say oh you want to stay on your high horse we’re you’re too good to sell the names of your the name of your league all right I’ll I’ll collect 10 or 20 or 30 million dollars a year or whatever the number is to have in Bubba’s question they’re considering renaming the current Big 12 you know the All State conference or some the All State 12 or some combination of all that I personally do not have a moral objection ethical objection philosophical objection but again I know many fans would hate the idea I know some University presidents would hate the idea some athletic directors probably vote against it um some are going to accuse you of selling your soul for the almighty dollar and my response resp to that would be we are drowning we are falling so far behind these other leagues we got to find something to do so you know the colleges already do have some commercialization on their uniforms whether it’s an Under Armour logo OR at Nike logo Etc but I don’t have a philosophical objection to having advertising on college sports uniforms and I don’t have a philosophical objection to selling the name of your conference if that’s what you want to do if all states willing to spend X tens of millions of dollars per year to rename the a league that’s been around for a long time more power to All State more power to the Big 12 I’m not losing any sleep over it again I know a lot of people philosophically disagree with me on that but I I would I mean whoever the ACC commissioner Brett Brett ymark is clearly not a traditionalist and he’s done some revolutionary things with the big 12 12 already so it doesn’t surprise me that he’s behind this idea to a degree most others in college athletics have at least a little traditionalist in them and I mean I I don’t know how ACC commissioner Jim Phillips would feel walking into a room and saying hey you know come up with a fun hypothetical are you gonna are you gonna rename it the Bojangles ACC or something like that um you would get push back I promise you that but the same people who would philosophically fight you uh would be happy with the new Revenue uh because if they can if they pay enough for one year the size of what they would pay for 10 years is an extremely large number and it helps leagues like the big 12 and the ACC keep up DG I um I thought the show was at 8 it was at 7 so I arrived a bit late um I’m assuming you’re about to go I don’t know what was discussed prior to me uh coming on um uh but uh primary thing that was on my mind and um I’m sure it’s already been discussed so going to be uh regurgitating things here and I’m sure you you’re probably about to wrap it up anyway um but the uh the whole situation with nil um and and where we are with nil we meaning college sports in general um and the so-called group of five you know um trying to fight a battle and and it’s not just football anymore at one time you know it looked like it was just football now it’s affecting not only basketball that’s affecting baseball yeah um I I don’t see how they can continue like this um for uh the the group of five I really believe there’s a split coming U and I think it’s not just coming in football I think it’s going to come in all sports um my I have my own thoughts on what’s going to end up happening but um how far how far away do you think we are from seeing a split because it just now that it’s bleeding over to baseball you know what’s the next volleyball yeah I I don’t think we’re near a split in terms of the next couple of years um but but here there’s a couple important Forks in the road one of them we discussed earlier and that is there’s there’s a court case called the house case and there’s a proposed settlement that both sides have agreed on so the plaintiffs representing former College athletes and current College athletes but also colleges and universities the NCW both sides have agreed to this new world where for the first time uh as long a federal judge in California approves this settlement universities will be able to uh basically funnel a percentage of their Athletics Revenue directly to their own athletes in the form of name image likeness money right now all that money comes from third parties and collectives and boosters who own companies Etc so that would be a massive fork in the road where universities are now pay essentially internally paying name image likeness money um and what’s going to happen if that is accepted universities are going to have very difficult decisions to make because not all not all universities can afford to funnel 20% of certain athletic revenues to their own athletes um and some are going to decide to invest mostly in football or mostly in football and men’s basketball there’s some Title Nine gender Equity questions surrounding how the money could be distributed without violating the law so we got more lawsuit headaches ahead along those lines but it’s I think your your premise is right in that just a couple of times in college sports history schools have been asked the fundamental question what do you want Athletics to be as a part of your overall University brand and if folks want to do any quick research look up the look up the identity of a handful of schools that I mean like it probably was 80 to 100 years ago we playing against Alabama and the money started to grow to a point where you know the University of Swani said we don’t like where this Athletics thing is going and Swani 80 or 100 years ago downgraded and a lot of the other schools Alabama was playing with and against decided to form the SEC so just as there was a philosophical decision to be made back then and and some schools went what is now called D3 some schools went D2 there was another of course App State not long ago had to decide whether they wanted to stay in FCS or jump to FBS with their football program so we’ve seen philosophical decisions like this in the past but with the money getting so so big and getting it hard hard to keep up I I do think there’s probably a world where some number I don’t know if that number is going to be 50 schools or 60 schools or something slightly larger than that where they’re going to have their championship and others are goingon to have a different Championship because that tier two just either can’t keep up financially or doesn’t want to even try to keep up financially and those decisions are not too too far away that that new world I was describing with name image likeness money again for the first time it would be allowed to be coming from the athletic department itself the earliest that could start is the fall of 2025 and imagine guys what decisions are going to have to be made are we going to spend all the way to the cap do we have enough money to do that how are we going to pay our coaches and upgrade our facilities with this new line item called name image likeness money to our own athletes that could be $10 million a year at a school like ECU that doesn’t just come out of nowhere right uh so hard decisions have to be made and there’s going to be another round of conference realignment and there may only be two or three Mega conferences that play by that top set of rules I think it’s gonna be three I think it’s gonna be three leagues of 20 yeah it could it could um I don’t even know if there’s enough people but my question is DG and some I don’t I don’t know if there’s enough great schools for the third conference I I think the Big 10 and the SEC have most of the clout right now and if the Big 10 wants to get to 24 someday it can um and I and if SEC seems happy at 16 for right now but could could certainly get bigger if it wants to um do they both go to 24 my the my theory is the SEC and Big 10 are going to go to 20 and then um the the All State conference as they are positioning themselves to survive will then pick over what left of the ACC and be the third 20 Team league they but they they will not be on the same tier as the SEC in the Big 10 there is there is no world where they get the same kind of football TV numbers because they’re not going to get Florida State FSU is not interested in the Big 12 um it’s it’s going to be viewed as a second tier League whether it’s the ACC or the Big 12 there’s just there’s just the TV numbers are not there um and in fact there aren’t that many schools basically if you if we all got together and made a list of the most desirable football properties that’s we all brainstormed two or four years ago you know we would have listed Southern Cal we would have listed UCLA we listed Washington we’ have listed Oregon they’re all on their way to the Big 10 already we would have listed Oklahoma we would have listed Texas they’re on their way to the secc right now we would have listed Florida State I think they’re going to end up in the Big 10 in the next few years who else would we list there’s not that many schools left that would add more to the Big 10 of the SEC than they would take away as another mouth defeat and again I I don’t see any formulation of the Big 12 that will belong on the same pedestal as the Big 10 in the SEC the TV the TV people just do not view the Big 12 that way in football well I hope you’re right if it ends up being you know two2 four team leagues at the highest level that’s honestly better for East Carolina the more schools that are left at this level the better off it’s less painful if there’s 48 versus 60 or more and then we’re left behind that makes sense to me yeah especially when uh a team like East Carolina we were talking DG it’s like a it’s a bubble power school we are right there at the cusp I feel like um how do you get over the hump how do you get off the bubble is just raise more money is that what it comes down to have leadership that really pushes that train I mean drives that train yeah you got a port you got to pour money into your budgets you got to create a product where there’s a lot of demand I mean obviously media money has become far more important than uh than a lot of other Revenue categories these days but you still have to sell a lot of tickets that’s still a pretty big Revenue category at most schools so if you’re if you’re filling a 100,000 seat football stadium that’s a lot different than filling a 50,000 seat football stadium right it is it ecu’s distance from that top 48 might as well be a thousand miles ecu’s distance from what we have described over the last decade as the power five which is really now the power four since the Pack 12 is gone um that’s not as huge a gap right um but but there is no there is no way for ECU to get into the top 48 in the in the near future um there’s just there aren’t people who watch pirate games you know TV Partners have these numbers right and Florida State and Clemson have these astronomical numbers in terms of football TV audiences somebody like Notre Dame gets that big cash from NBC because it has even in bad years the Irish have astronomical TV I mean obviously you can’t lose too long or the numbers start dropping a lot but right they can mix great years with bad years and still have Sensational TV numbers um the SEC the overwhelming majority of those members huge football TV numbers uh the the Big 10 lot of large public universities that have been around a lot longer than ECU has had the the they’ve been churning out graduates in much larger numbers over a much longer time than a school like ECU has so again there’s no magic wand there you got to win you got to sell tickets and you got to become a brand that and now s people beyond your own fan base that’s the bottom line I mean it’s not just Notre Dame fans that are watching Notre Dame football they’re a brand it’s not just Florida State fans watching Florida State football they’re a brand and you know if if we see Alabama against Auburn in in a year particular year I’m not a fan of Alabama or Auburn but I might check out that game because of the brands why is Duke Carolina the most watched basketball game in the country almost every year I I’d be putting aside the NCAA tournament because of the brands now some years they’re both ranked in the top five and it’s no brainer but a lot of years they’re not ranked in the top five or one or the other is not very good and they still get astronomical by foot by basketball standards astronomical TV audiences and uh ECU is just not in that place or particularly close to that place with its athletic brands right now doesn’t mean it can’t be a fantastic athletic Department doesn’t mean it can’t be one of the dominant programs in the American Athletic Conference but it’s it’s a long way from from being a target of one of the top four conferences yeah and if it ends up being 48 I quite frankly say go ahead take your take your ball the 48 of you go do your thing but one thing you know I don’t know how much more time you have DG but you talk about Brands and people you know watching Alabama Auburn and you don’t care about either one of those schools and UNC Duke and it’s the most watched basketball game but I’ve always kind of looked at it like this too while you know they’re called Power five they’re still right now playing at the same level as e Carolina or you know BYU to use a big 12 school or whoever um I believe there’s 133 correct me if I’m wrong FPS schools right now sounds if if you drop that down to 48 you’re you’re you’re cutting off a lot of viewers because I’m not going to watch that crap I’m not going to watch Alabama Auburn anymore I’m not going to watch uh whoever’s at that level I’m GNA watch who’s at our level so that’s one thing I I do wonder how that’s going to affect if they’re throwing out all this TV money and now you know they separate to the highest level um you’re alienating a large part of your audience that I don’t I don’t think they’re thinking about that I I think they’re they’re they’re not looking at it broad enough they’re really focusing in on well your SEC fans and your big 10 fans and everybody watches Alabama Auburn because it’s Alabama Auburn and their brands yeah but there’s also an association we’re we’re we’re they’re the same level as us theoretically um whether it’s true or not you know really but as of right now you know we’re FBS they’re FBS when that goes away I’m going to quit watching them and I’m just going to watch our level and there’s going to be a whole lot more at our level I I think your point of view is heard um for example everybody I know in the SEC tells me that they’re content at 16 schools like they’re they’re not dying to expand right now in the South Eastern Conference now you never say never that doesn’t mean they can’t change their mind one year from now or five years from now but they see that part of your point of view as a real thing now there’s somebody else in the room who always brings up hey a lot of fans told us they’d swear off ACC football and basketball when the league expanded well I’m sure some people did but most people did not I don’t think comparable in fact you know TV numbers keep growing and TV payments keep growing there there were Baseball fans when you know Major League Baseball moved the All-Star Game out of Atlanta there were probably millions of people who said I never gonna watch Major League Baseball again for political reasons I can’t believe they did this I hate them I’m never gonna watch again 99% of those people were lying they didn’t stop being Baseball fans they just were mad wanted to let it out and probably in the moment swore off baseball forever 99% of them turned out to be Liars because we’re not swearing off College athletics we’re swearing off that level of College athletics if we’re not involved in it anymore you may but what will the masses do is is what matters the TV Executives just don’t care if they lose some when for example in the realignment expansion context they were thinking you know what there’s some traditionalists who are never going to watch this supersized ACC but we as TV Partners now have instead of the old eight team ACC they have 14 football products to sell right and they they have greater inventory and more high-profile matchups Etc so the pluses outweighed the minuses didn’t mean you lost didn’t lose some people but you added other people um and and somebody somebody in the room just like somebody is saying your point of view we better be careful about this this sacred cow that we have created because we’re all making a ton of money right now if it ain’t broke why why try to fix it right somebody in the room is saying what you’re saying and that probably explains part of the reason the SEC remains happy at 16 I mean they did just expand Oklahoma and Texas are just arriving but I don’t I don’t sense that the SEC is dying to get past 16 so your point of view is being heard but somebody else is saying hey when we create this Mega League we’re going to have more casual fans watching us because they’ve got this 48 team monstrosity and then they want to see how that Universe Works uh and maybe maybe more fans of those 48 are more enamored than they were when they were just you know just another League out there I don’t claim to know the answer but but both of those points of view I promise you are present in those conference uh conversations here’s here’s the one thing I will argue we were talking about Pro Sports and I’m not making this Pro versus college but college football if they would get their act together could be the number one sport in all of America and the reason why the NFL is number one because they know that it’s about a brand they’re playing all over the world they’re playing games in London there’s a reason why they’re playing all over the world a lot of those teams hate to go to play those London Games and um down in Mexico City and not that I have a problem with them playing it but they don’t like it uh travel reasons and Etc the problem with college football the reason why they don’t have my respect is because they don’t think globally Kyle and I and I think you are David uh we’re very big wrestling fans it’s like having the territory days I’m just going to worry about Jim Crockett promotions I’m just going to worry about mids South I’m just going to worry about the problem is you got a guy like Vince McMahon out there that’s going to be thinking globally and that’s what they need is that commissioner they need that guy to say wait a minute guys if we have 64 teams or we have this many teams in that big conference or that big level if you want to call it you don’t want 64 because then we’re just going to be left out and there’s going to be no no I know I’m just saying I’m just saying the more he’s talking about eyeballs my my feelings are exactly like Kyle’s mine I will not watch it um because I think it’s disgrace I think that when you look at the number of eyeballs that potentially could be on college football would outweigh any sport including in the NFL if they got their act together the good news is for the NFL the powers that be in college football are have their own agenda and they can say well David I’m in charge of the SEC but the big picture of things if you’re really charg of the SEC you should be saying I want to expand college football and not Contracting well it’ll be interesting one thing will be interesting Dave and Dave um this year is Will group of five ratings go up this year because group of five games now have an implication on the playoffs the highest rated group of five Champion is going to get a playoff spot this year yep so it’ll be interesting to see you know does that create more interest in American Conference games and by the way um since the Big 12 is going to sell their branding to All State I I I think the Americans should go with the general um but but just just just in general you know will that create more interest in so-called group of five games talking about expanding viewership of college football overall you know now um on Championship Saturday you know the American or the Sun Belt or the Conference USA championship with Liberty last year will have playoff implications for the first time ever I think it’s going to help obviously the the the massive Revenue stream is simply what uh the college football world is being paid for the expanded playoff but a secondary benefit to me is both what you just said about those Conference Championship games and other prominent group of five teams but also I think there’s a lot of fans of teams that maybe if they had two losses in the month of September let’s say there’s a percentage of fans who are going to be less interested in the rest of that season because whether it was under the BCS format or the four team playoff you knew you were done literally no two- lost team ever made the college football playoff and 10 years that’s 40 teams there were no examples so what I think is going to happen it’s another layer to improve college football ratings generally is there’s more reasons for more fan bases to hang around longer right there’s always the die hards but the more casual fan if their team loses a couple early you’re thinking I could still get in at 10 and two if I win my conference title right so there’s a lot of benefits to that um you guys know the deal and Dave by the way your NFL example the most the highest revenue Sports league in the history of the world is the current version of the National Football League that’s how good they are and oh by the way whoever’s number two and number three are not close to the NFL at all it’s actually baseball and the NBA are two and three and I mean in the history of the world their annual revenue numbers are that large NFL over 20 billion a year baseball in the NBA are over 10 billion a year but that’s how far the drop is to number two college football collectively is insanely popular one challenge that they have is that nobody’s going to follow 130 plus teams right the NFL the N say nobody DG well is is there anybody like besides Phil steel who really who really knows and there I know a lot of NFL fans who could tell you the starting quarterback for all 30 yeah NFL teams right and they know a handful of players on all 32 there’s nobody who knows that man college football is too large to be popular in the same way the NFL it’s not it’s not mere coincidence that all the most successful leagues have something in the neighborhood of 30 teams it’s a small enough number that you can have a familiarity with with not only your favorite team but the other 29 or the other 31 so it’ll be interesting to see if if that Breakaway college football league I mean maybe they don’t want to go all the way to 48 maybe they don’t maybe the Big 10 gets to 20 and the SEC is at 16 and those 36 say let’s do this let’s do things our way I I don’t know better do that that’s great I’m all for that go ahead it probably won’t be that small but there there is an advantage to being not quite as large because it allows it allows for more people to truly care about the league as a whole uh whereas it’s just impossible to care for about 130 some teams and by the way uh Robert Matthew is a friend of ours he says DG I miss you on 99.5 you are the man thank you Robert thank you it’s good to be missed I I can say this I miss my listeners all the time I miss my interns and my producers I do not miss hosting an everyday radio show and I say that as a man who’s incredibly blessed that I’ve gotten I’ve gotten paid to write and talk about sports for the last 40 years almost um I’m happy at this chapter of my life to doing what we do uh to do what we do at the North Carolina sports network we just hit a huge threshold number I don’t know if Robert’s a part of that but we went past 10,000 YouTube subscribers in in about three months and 98% of YouTube channels never make it to 10,000 and we did it in three months so a lot of people uh deserve thank yous from me and my staff because the North Carolina sports network is is a small family-owned Endeavor and it’s very very hard to make it in today’s media world as a small family other things I’ve done we backed by you know the biggest TV company in North Carolina the biggest radio company in North Carolina you know ESPN as a partner these are just massive conglomerates that have buil-in advantages that whether you’re a hardware store or a guy creating a sports Media Company it’s just harder to be the mom and pop approach it’s just harder uh and I I don’t back away from that I’m not complaining about that it just is harder so we’re incredibly thankful for the feedback we’ve gotten on our website our podcast and um the the YouTube channel in particular because that number started at zero um I’ve had a podcast for a long time I’ve been a writer for a long time the YouTube channel is brand new so thank you for the kind words Robert and and thanks to everybody out there who’s been supporting me we’re not even at a year yet um with the North Carolina sports network but whether you’re supported me 30 years ago or supporting this current Endeavor um I I try to be thankful every day for the people who like what we do and support what we do congratulations on the success how much more time do you have I got interesting question for you yeah I got a little bit more my my wife’s waiting for me but you know we’ve been married 20 we’ve been married 26 years I’ll get away with it with your legal background um have have you been keeping up with the V McMahon scandal at all East Carolina alumna only a little bit from afar I have not dived into the details there okay just a general question um he uh was being was being sued um you know uh in a in a um oh God civil case uh by by a young lady for millions of dollars right um and and he she has now been asked to you know I don’t know what the legal term would be but hold off on that uh because the feds are potentially going to indict him uh when somebody is told on a civil case hey uh wait a minute because we might be getting ready to indict him we don’t need evidence compromised How likely is it that indictment is coming this is not my wheelhouse um because that’s pretty high level you know civil litigation and criminal litigation which is kind of above my pay grade um but I do know that generally speaking um you’re wise to listen and and you can actually benefit in your Civil Case by evidence generated by that federal case so um and they did they they they’ve paused litigation yeah it makes it makes sense to pause let the big boys who have bigger resources than you do who who knows what unsavory information’s going to come out of that if if there is a prosecution so um I’ve read a little bit about those cases um so but but not enough to know like to have a great sense of where they’re going to go and he has sold all his stocks um it now has all I guess it’s all liquid billions of dollars at his disposal at this point if I’m Vin just leave the country you know ECU hello H that’s not happening I just I just find it interesting now you know I I would think if you’re if you’re being told to hey hold off on that that he’s likely going to be indicted I think you’re right I you’re your gut instincts on this are right one final question for you because the lovely and talented Maria is waiting for you so we’ll let you this will be the last call last question Bubba Says do you see Grayson McCall and NC State competing in the ACCC also how do you think Duke does in year one of Manny Diaz will this be the third straight excellent hire uh for head coach for the Blue Devils of course he’s talking about David cutcliffe Mike Elco and now Manny Diaz I don’t love Duke in year one under Manny Diaz I think the Blue Devils in the aftermath of Mike Elco leaving for Texas A&M probably lost as many high-profile big-time starters as anybody in the entire ACC wow and that was even before Manny much of it was before Manny Diaz was even hired where you know their their Young quarterback Riley Leonard heads to Notre Dame their starting running back goes to NC State uh their all ACC defensive tackle jumps to Virginia Tech I mean it was just like oh my gosh uh so Manny’s gonna need a little while but he’s an imp Rive guy so I think there is a good chance there could be a third straight impressive higher in Duke football which was nothing for about 50 years just a total disaster for almost literally a half century um the NC State question I’m way more optimistic about the Wolfpack this year um McCall from Coastal Carolina was a multi-time Sun Belt player of the year uh he gets plugged into the quarterback position of course uh Dave Doran has a really sound foundation and I I actually think obviously it’s a differ sized League now there are 17 football teams in the ACC this fall uh I think if we listed a top five that NC State would be in you know everybody would put Florida State in that top five everybody would put Clemson in that top five a lot of people believe the Miami Hurricanes are finally going to break through we’ve heard that many many many times so I wouldn’t count those chickens just yet but I think it is legitimate when you look at the wolfpack’s depth chart what they’ve signed on the incoming transfer portal um I think Louisville’s going to be good again I think Virginia Tech will be good uh but the wolf pack is in that mix and they haven’t broken through at the 10- win level yet under Dave Dave Doran um that’s one of their goals um states only had one season in its history a 100 plus years of football with 10 or more wins it won’t be easy but I think it’s a it’s a believable I wouldn’t laugh if Dave Doran said we’re going to become the second Wolfpack team in history to win 10 or more games I I would understand why he would list that as a goal um can they go 10 and two in the regular season would they need a bowl game to win that 10th game who knows or or maybe they’re they’re being overestimated right now but Dave doran’s a good football coach uh and that’s a nice nucleus talent in Raleigh this year and it’s it’s really one of the first times in a long one one of the only times I can think of that I consider the wolf pack not the ACC favorite but but right up there you know call it tier two if you want behind the heavyweights wow that’s people and Raleigh are very happy in wol pack Nation uh to hear that before we let you go obviously you talked a little bit about the North Carolina sports network U I know everybody sees on the screen but if you’re listening at David Glen show atth NC sportset and of course subscribe to their YouTube channel there for DG but uh how else could I guess that’s the best way to find you right now yeah the social media that you have them up there so I thank you for that the website is kind of our Grand Central Station and it is a little confusing because the website is NC sportsnetwork.com um so just think of North Carolina sports network NC for North Carolina Sports Network our social media is a little different with as you said Dave with the NC sportset but if you can remember NC Sports network.com those who like to listen like you literally click the word listen and it takes you to our podcast if you like to watch click the literally the word watch it takes you to our YouTube channel which and remember for those who aren’t familiar subscribing is free all these follows all of these subscriptions are free um but those numbers help us for a lot of different reasons and occasionally you know we have found sponsors with my appearances all over the ACC area and all over the state of North Carolina so I’ll put it this way it used to cost a lot of money to partner with the David Glen show it’s a much more manageable amount of money to partner with the the North Carolina sports network just because we’re we’re only in our first year of existence so we have good numbers to show but they’re only one year worth of numbers rather than 20 some years worth of numbers but uh yeah that’s the that’s the Grand Central Station NC sportsnetwork.com everything about me you can even send me an email there’s contact forms and email addresses uh that website and also davidg Glen show.com well as we said at the beginning of the interview uh your great friend I appreciate you putting them with me 13 years hard to believe a good luck number like Taylor Swift would say appreciate you so much good luck again uh I enjoy watching listen to you on this different I guess this a new medium uh just like streaming versus cable and over there thank you so much and uh good luck to you I hope you have a great sabatical and we’ll try to get you on the other side right before ACC football starts thank you Dave it’s always good to be with you I admire what you have done with h the sports objective you know I’ll come back anytime and uh yeah after we do a little running around in July and and early August we’ll we’ll dive deeper into the details of this upcoming college football season for sure all right sounds good good night my friend thank you so much time tonight thanks to everybody for watching and listening see you next time good night bye bye all right that’s a great DG David Glenn and let’s bring back in Kyle from the gra Barber what’s up dude how on much man I just got knocked off the uh the podcast the end of the interview um so I uh but anyway uh good catching up with uh DG um you know I missed the first half of the interview I don’t know how much nil stuff and all that was discussed but we got some of it in um with him um while I was there Dave if you don’t quit doing that I’m trying that right there it’s good it’s good worries me to death about the release love you bubba I um anyway that was distracting the hell out of me sorry but anyway it’s um got a couple months to go before football season starts uh you know one thing just to mention you know if if and buts and fruits and nuts and all that kind of stuff but hey preseason the the favorites to represent the so-called group of five in the college football playoff are Liberty Appalachia State and Memphis um we play two of those three oddly enough the one we don’t play as in our league um because things are stupid but um you know what if we what if we are way better than people think and all of a sudden in the month of September we go four and0 and beat two of the preseason favorites and now we can we go through the conference and meet Memphis in the conference Championship game so you know who knows you could go from two and 10 to all of a sudden being in the playoff discussion I know that sounds ridiculous but it’s true no when you look at the schedule you and I talked about it we’re not trying to say uh that no and I don’t think that’s GNA happen I just I’m just saying it could happen well I tell you what I was uh talking to some folks this afternoon and they were surprised about me being bullish on John David Baker but unless unless there’s just a you know like we talk about the talent level and all that stuff but I firmly believe they’ve done a much better job this year with the talent the transfer portal and you look at the oh we’re talented on we’re talented everywhere the only place I’m really concerned about Talent is the o line besides that I think we’re talented pretty much everywhere they they did a good job working the portal this year um versus last year and part of that was nil and part of it was changing philosophy and accepted things for the way they are unfortunately um but you know um D John David Baker um has a you know good pedigree good reputation um our o line coach um people are really big on him and think he’s fantastic so maybe he can do something with the guys that are already here um sometimes it take takes coaching up so um we’ll see um but you know it’s just a just an interesting thought that um you know for the first time ever um because of the new playoff format and it probably won’t last long unfortunately but you know if if we were to win the American and and I don’t think we will but if we do we would be in the playoff discussion so should I ask this question I don’t know Chuck will do it uh I think I know Kyle’s answer you know what my answer is going to be Chuck or you should what’s your feelings on John Gilbert Athletics director scheduling Western Carolina um I don’t have a problem with it if if the fourth game non-conference on the 2027 schedule is a quality opponent if it’s a uh if it’s a so-called power five opponent or even an app State we have wake fours come to gement that year so if it’s an app state or a um or power five opponent um then I don’t have a problem with it um I don’t mind one FCS opponent a year um doesn’t bother me the problem with it is Gilbert doesn’t do anything you tell me right now the Wake Force the Wake Force Series was put together by by confer um you know the state series was put together by confer um the Boise State series that was cancelled by Gilbert was put together by confer and I couldn’t stand confer um the the the BYU series was actually initially put together by Terry Holland um so you know what has John Gilbert done in terms of scheduling now you you I I will you know put the caveat in there things have changed um it’s not as easy to schedule now as it was but you see other group of five schools um scheduling power five opponents and Gilbert let’s missing something the only Power five opponents he scheduled has been buy games and anybody can get a buy game um so my problem isn’t so much with the Western Carolina a oneoff my problem is is gilber is not impressive with scheduling um overall and um that’s that’s the bigger issue it’s not the game against Western Carolina it’s who the hell has he has he signed that’s impressive um in terms of a home and home or two for one or or anything like that um hell I would at this point be excited about an extension to the Appalachian State series I mean I’m being real I mean we Dro Boise to play Coast so I don’t have a problem with playing Coast why the hell do we drop that the St two game series with Boise here that kind of crap and you know and I don’t care look people at the athletic department can be mad at me I don’t I don’t care but you know I I I’m I’m being critical of Gilbert on things that need to be criticized and you know from a and and you know for me and he’ll say you know I’m quite sure if he sees this he’ll go well you think it’s that easy you schedule well I’m not making $400,000 a year and nether do I have a title athletic director try five but who’s c yeah five well whatever it’s three it’s three it’s 499 too much um here yeah and here’s the thing you look at and Kyle you and I agree I can I can live with the one FCS okay my concern is this we e East Carolina University are a national brand and before you laugh at me look at the 199s when Dave Hart Dave Hart scheduled after the Peach Bowl we had a great I talk about Dave Hart I know but just just hear me out I’m not going down that path but Dave Hart scheduled nicely on ESP and those Thursday night games even though I’m not a fan of Thursday night because I think we may have won one but you want to talk about about the national exposure of that time right I’m not saying do things like that um because that was the 1990s what I’m saying is we are a national brand so I have no issues with opponents we’re playing other than we need more of National schedule when especially in the landscape of college football when you know that if you play a Boise State guess what we can go out there they can come here and somebody say well I know Kyle you can say we don’t do recruiting in Boise but there’s a lot of eyeballs that will watch it we’ll just bring it to real time you you don’t even have to reference the 90s uh what would you say is your if not your favorite one of your favorite wins of the Mike Houston era Mike Houston era well I would say the um probably the the bowl game because we hadn’t won a bowl in 10 years BYU there you go there you go BYU that’s what I’m looking for BYU on Friday night on ESPN way out in Provo Utah got us all kinds of national attention when we beat BYU um you know we we like that that’s who we are you know not the Boise State is is fighting up but it’s a brand name we get excited for that it that that’s ingrained in who we are as East Carolina and it’s something that um I don’t think you know and and I’m not sitting here saying look yeah I think you would want to play Four power five opponents a year if you could but I I’m not saying do that at all but I do think you know you got to play one or two a year and and in 27 we are playing wake fours U my bigger question is again specifically for that year that was asked about Western Carolina who’s that fourth opponent going to be um because we got Georgia State Wake Force Western Carolina who’s that fourth opponent going to be well here’s the uh if you look at that and here’s my question is we’re in the year 2024 and we still have one opponent left um you can argue who came off the schedule and all that kind of stuff and BYU and all that you couldn’t make that but anyway um let’s look at 2029 we have Old Dominion and Liberty that’s all we have uh 2031 we have uh Old Dominion is all we have and you say well Dave that’s seven years but you don’t understand these schedules get filled up faster and faster and faster than they ever have and that’s concern is we’re going to be filling them with games of teams we’re just desperate we got to put these it’s almost like we’re independent um again so uh you look at uh 2025 next year is decent um because you have at NC State Campbell at Coastal Carolina big game maybe Kyle and I we can ride down there together we love that that stadium and everything with Myrtle Beach and then we have a home game with BYU so next year is not bad you look at uh 2026 Central home game appalachin State home game West Virginia home game at Old Dominion I can live with that 2026 schedule all day long but you’re right how much you want to bet that West Virginia game never happens it may not we’ll see we’ll see he said Central oh NC Central yeah yeah NC Central um decent um 28 is NC State home Coastal Carolina Charleston Southern and at Wake Forest that’s not bad I can live with that um 30 is Nori State at South Carolina at Old Dominion we’ll see with the fourth opponent but if you look at 2029 only two and you can say Dave um so they’re what they’re going to do is they’ll have a FCS opponent and that might be the year of the buy game is what I’m thinking for 29 we’ll see but anyway Chuck says uh why not schedule power mid- tier power programs Vandy Syracuse I’m all for that um well you got to get them to play you I mean they got to be willing to play you I mean I I’m assuming you mean home and home um I at this point I’d do a two for one I think I think it’s just the reality um so uh I if they want to do it that would be great um you got to find people that want to play you and you got to have an ad who can make things happen yeah har Holland yeah you look at it it’s not look let me tell you something right now uh this show there’s many different examples I can give that we make things happen if my children need something I make it happen I don’t say well gosh guys uh I know you need the glasses but uh I can’t afford those glasses because you know I just have one income coming in no what I do is I work harder I have side hustles I make more money uh promotions at work uh raises different things like that bonuses everything DJ and everything I can put in the PO I’m going to do it and that’s the problem is we can’t have a smalltime mentality if you think we’re a small school then you’re not going to work as hard as if you think you’re at Alabama or Tennessee I’m not trying to knock you I actually like John Gilbert I like Ryan Robinson a lot both of them a lot it has nothing to do whether I like them personally or not all I’m saying is as a guy who’s um growing in the pirate club I’m giving as P Cal I’m giving as much money as I can can’t give any more than I’m giving um I’m giving the max I can give and I want uh when we have these conversations about growing then you know you need to listen to the people that are your customers and the other thing is I will add to you Kyle to your point Kyle about these brand name teams we have people that we know um some of them you know Kyle and some that are my personal friends that you know we go back to East Carolina what they do is they look at the they’re not like Kyle and I they look at the schedule and if it’s an attractive schedule meaning the power fives and the teams that they would like to see to play the Pirates then they buy season tickets they buy individual tickets but if it’s just hey we expect you to come because it’s East Carolina that’s not going to happen at our school so what you have to do is before we had to schedule the we’re going after the best I’m not asking for that that was crazy the schedule murders row because we’re independent I’m not asking asking for that but what I’m asking for is when you look at the schedule and you say in this year we have those four non Conference teams we can’t control the conference we’re in as far as those teams but we can control the non-conference and it does matter and it’s going to matter even more I believe in the playoff I could be wrong but if we have an easy schedule or a very waterd schedule I I I’ll point to Liberty last year and maybe disagree with you on that but I the key is going to be to go undefeated or near undefeated so um it’ll depend it’ll depend that that’s all subjective I mean I while we don’t have a power five opponent on the schedule this year if we were to go 11- one and win the conference uh somebody would have to be pretty stout uh at 12 and0 to to get the playoff spot over us but I mean I I doubt we’re going to be in those discussions just saying well we’ll have to wait and see how that goes my friend I I definitely think we’re going to as Chuck says Thank You Chuck I remember that very well 1985 we’re going after the best my first semester at ACU and it was a it was as coach Logan put it nine homecomings they play every year um but that’s what we had to do to fund to be a divis division one school and as I’ve said before what are we going to do if you’re Leo Jenkins what would Leo do um he and die decided hey we’re not going to be what was FCS then we’re moving up and I think it was in 77 we’re moving up to FBS what we call FBS now division 1A football and you know yes things have changed times have changed the money of what we would have to invest um I’m not saying necessarily that I expect us to be in the the top tier as we talked about with David Glenn but I do think there’s a of growth and room uh for us to grow and to be dominating um the American we got to start somewhere um with it comes to the one missing link and I’m not promis KY I’m not going on a tangent here but we’ve got to do better and spend more money on basketball because I believe that all the other sports you look at volleyball Kyle um they have their volleyball schedule out now and they have a chance for the first time in program history they’ve never made the NCAA tournament you remember they went the equivalent of the NIT last year in volleyball but in the fifth year the coach has them where they have a chance now to make it to the the NCAA tournament and before that was just a nice thought oh yeah our ladies are going to make it to the NCAA tournament and now it’s more of a reality why because of the I will say for Gilbert and Robinson I will say their coaching High s have been really good their coaching hires have been really good um even with uh with Schwarz um I like Schwarz a lot I think it comes down to not the coaching so I want everybody to know how much I like him personally he’s been very good to me professionally um and to the media he’s been very very nice um but I wanted to say it’s not about the coaching it’s about the investing in the individual sport of basketball um we are spending more money so I’ll be fair to them but we got to spend a lot more money if we’re ever going to be in the top tier of the American in basketball here’s another great point a um Kyle softball Shane Winkler softball is making comeback you know why because of the dude knows about not only is a great recruiter he knows how to work the transfer portal one of the best at East Carolina hands down for sure Y no doubt Dave youbody ready to wrap this up I am do you have I was getting ready you read my mind I was getting ready to ask you if you had any final thoughts before we get out of here uh long summer uh going to be a lot going on between uh now and the uh the August what what the hell August 31st we play Norfolk State yep so uh days in fact the first practice of fall Camp will be early August and of course we’ll be at media day for you and I hope that we can get our friend um I was going to make the joke Kyle from Goldsboro because everybody in basketball is changing their name now on our team so you know do you want me to David from Richmond or uh who do you want me to be what do you want my name to change to uh we’ll go with Dave okay just change it to Dave yeah all right well we’ll get out here thank you so much for DG David Glenn for being with us um and he always likes to stay with us and I appreciate that very much and we’ll be with you probably maybe once a week at best during the summertime but Kyle my friend I appreciate you coming and we’ll see you guys next time and as always like as we like to say go pirates you’re watching the sports objective the podcast for pirates [Music]
