Netflix has Come for Live Sports: NFL on Christmas on Netflix | The Sporting Class

Meadowlark Media CEO John Skipper and @NPDS David Samson are back with another episode with host of @PabloTorreFindsOut … Pablo Torre! Welcome to The Sporting Class! Netflix has officially entered the live sports world with the NFL. The NFL on Christmas Day on Netflix. What does this mean for the rest of the broadcasting world? (27:07) The bundle is back? Disney and Fox and WBD wanted to bring us just sports. Now Disney and Hulu and WBD want to bundle for content. And now Comcast is bringing its own bundle offering to the table! The bundle went away and now it’s back! (38:15) Who will win the NBA’s broadcasting rights? ESPN and NBC and Amazon? Will Warner Brothers Discovery be able to salvage a piece of the NBA pie? (47:00) Here are our final thoughts!

0:00 – Intro
0:55 – Netflix NFL
27:07 – Bundle Back!?
38:15 – NBA on what?
47:00 – Final thoughts

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David Samson has just declared to John Skipper that they’re no longer going to shake your hands anymore I’m not sure that we have ever even when we completed a deal with metalarc but you’re you have we just hug we just hug we’re Huggers I’m a hugger I do find it strange that Jon likes telling stories before we start doing shows about his cleanliness faor of it actually you were correct it was not true CU my hands were wet when I came back so want to call you out it just was a story yes um I worry that 70% of you these are the minds that lead us into the biggest topics in sports business uh it’s a genre that is never never wanted for uh drama and massive Evolution and we arrive this week on the sporting class with John Skipper and David Samson with Netflix Goliath marrying Goliath and I mean the NFL and Netflix getting together Netflix entering the LA Sports business officially now um a three-year deal John uh how do you see this deal the idea that now they’re going to carry NFL games on Christmas Day I think it’s a very smart deal on the part of the NFL and Netflix I’ve been consistent in thinking that Netflix will continue to poke their way into sports I believe this is the first professional League or soan shrer schroer who uh probably did the deal or papered the deal uh since the first professional League smart of them to to do it they’ve been more cautious than Amazon more cautious than Apple at diving in but they’re coming they had a big big live roast as well oh yes they did so it used to be they were going to be event driven with the roast and with the Mike Tyson Jake Paul fight now they’re beginning to say all right let’s try right steel but we’ll only make it the Christmas special because it’s our favorite biggest day of the year when everyone watches Kevin Hart movies or whatever the case may be but guess what the next step is and you know what we’re really cool on New Year’s Day that’s a big day for Netflix and then it’s going to be a random Wednesday in March and this is how you get to doing full rights deals Netflix is a player and the leagues and the owners are really really happy today the luck is that Christmas is on a Wednesday that is the great news for the NFL explain that because there are no Wednesday games they’re not taking away a package from anybody they’re taking away Regional games you could argue from CBS and Fox but they’re not in any way violating the contract of CBS and fox they created new inventory which is the dream of any seller which is to find new inventory with no incremental cost and that’s what a Wednesday game is yeah I think it’s just the Natural Evolution Reed Hastings said long ago that he was interested in making money he’s making money now he was letting his shareholders know that they were going to not dive into sports while they were losing money the sports are expensive uh now that they’re making money now that they’re emerging as the big winner uh which they are they understand that they will need to keep moving into sports it is a matter of time and so the games for this coming Christmas it’s a pair of them Chiefs Steelers Ravens Texans those are the two games both pretty good pretty good games does it matter but that’s the question that that is where my head they wanted they wanted to do this first Christmas they wanted just toim the NBA move on from that don’t even have him as competition who’s they I think I know but the NFL the NFL for me they’re going after Christmas this is new it used to be they would only do Christmas Day games if Christmas happened to be on a Saturday or Sunday or a Monday night maybe or a Thursday night now doesn’t matter what day Christmas is a day that used to be NBA based is now going to be won by the NFL the Netflix ratings will be higher than any of the NBA ratings even though it’s a streamer Netflix only and the NBA in theory will have its Christmas games on regular networks I still think it’ll beat it and then it’ll just start to Netflix will continue to spend more money in this Arena and so my question as I was thinking about it is are they now out of the event business all these tennis matches they do and the golf matches event versus games event versus games a oneoff versus a series of deals that they’re going to do and if I were to wager I would say that they will get get away from the oneoff events which are harder to make work financially and they will go into the larger deals like this yeah you did condition it on they’ll go away from the ones that don’t make money I don’t think it’s either or I think they will continue to look for oneoff events and they Prov quite successful in that in things other than Sports as well comedy uh and they’ll keep doing that there’s no reason not to I mean Netflix is now interested in share they’re going to continue to try to grow sh and they know this will help them do that and retain their subscribers and grow their subscribers worldwide it’s all seems very smart very logical to me and the fact that they got worldwide rights it’s not being discussed enough I feel and that means that wherever you have if you’re traveling and you turn on Netflix you know you get different options of what you can watch not all movies are available whatever country you’re in the NFL deal I believe is going to say that wherever you are if you’ve got the red n then you are going to get the NFL on Christmas Day and whatever time it is in your particular country and that turns out to be big for Netflix of course but really good for the NFL who spends a lot of time energy and money trying to expand internationally yeah were the NBA games International as well on Christmas they would win the ratings but they’re not I know so I’m just pushing back to I also don’t think uh it does the NFL were ever it appears affects ratings of the other outlets at the time the NBA will still do fine they have five games on Christmas uh you said correctly they kind of own Christmas this incur in does provide some incursion into that but they’ll do fine I don’t think they’ll move them to the 24th or the 26th well Christmas is Christmas no one can move Christmas but it used to be that the leagues respected each other I feel a little more when I first got into sports we were always felt we were in competition with the NFL and Bud seel was always wondering what you know tagu was doing but now it just feels like all out warar where Roger Goodell is and I I may have said on this show or nothing personal he is truly yural the turtle he wants to rule everything that he sees and he doesn’t care about the other sports the way I feel they used to look it’s just good competition I do think there was a sort of courtesy before doesn’t surprise me in a world that’s becoming less courteous and as rights fees go up they have to figure out more and more way ways to drive more money for the owners it’s going to happen I mean I remember at ESPN you know when there were people who thought I being on Thursday night with college football was a bad idea we stayed off a Friday night because of high school but at some point it was like no we’re going to put college games on Friday night and then we’re going to put them on Tuesday night and Wednesday night so it speaks also just to the insatiable appetite that sports fans have they want an opportunity to watch sports all the time it’s it’s fascinating Pablo I don’t know if you saw this the other day or whatever day it is today there was a discussion from Bob Iger our old friend Bob Iger who is saying we’re not going to put as much money into our linear programming we are going to really focus on streaming we’re going to focus on getting that content and that production value up and I was thinking from a business standpoint what has changed and how quickly it has changed that we talked about on this show maybe a year ago that nli was not in this business and not only are they in the business now they’re owning the business now and we didn’t imagine what could happen with NBA and its rights fees which we may get into today the world that we thought was changing quickly it turns out we were wrong it’s changing even faster than that so the coarsening of relations between the leagues which was a gentleman’s day tant it sounds like John before um what accounts for why that is different now is it because look at the media economy and the icebergs that are melting and the ones that are seemingly bobbing up to the surface is that why all of this now feels more all out I think it’s because of the price of Entry I’m sorry to interrupt you John I think that when owners had bought a team like George starmer bought the Yankees for $10 million you know it’s okay to be a little cordial when your entry price is $6 billion and that’s your basis then you have a need for a higher return and for increased Revenue because you are servicing more debt in the early days the acquisition debt for teams was minimal now the acquisition debt can be in the billions explain John before I get to you explain what that means though servicing debt acquisition debt in layman’s terms when you buy a house you borrow money to buy your house and if you buy a bigger house for more money but your down payment stays the same that means you’re borrowing more money which means you’re paying more money per month to the bank who gave you the money when you buy a team it’s the same darn thing you put an amount down and then you borrow the rest from a bank which you have to pay back and if you’re borrowing billions of dollars it can change how you operate and we see this with companies like Warner Brothers when the debt like Paramount when the debt becomes so overwhelming you can go bankrupt or you can adjust and cut your expenses but you have to do something I think that’s accurate I think it’s also accurate that there rights fees go up they’ve got to find new places and sports is by far the most predictable and consistent driver of audio es the only driver other than a few events Academy Awards Tom Brady roast um that that you can predict and get you a concurrent large audience so they’re just looking for more windows and now it’s harder to be a gentleman when or a gentle woman when um you are trying to find more windows and you’re going I’m not really going to honor that anymore that we’re not going to play college football games on Friday night we’re going to play them right peacock let’s recall we’ve covered the the story too peacock setting that record right 23 million viewers for that Dolphins Chiefs game a streaming playoff game the first ever exclusive to a streamer really it seems being the proof of concept is that the way you guys see it for Netflix to say now it’s time for us to make sure that we gobble up some of this they do it after one is that proof of concept to you if someone brought you one success th well Thursday Night Football is a proof of concept as well right people thought you could never agregate the NFL audience so I would suggest it publ is right about the wild card game because that’s postseason so that would have been sacran territory that the broadcast networks would have expected to hold uh and they’re not going to there is one other interesting fact about these though which is these are long-term deals so which which are the NFL deal was 10 years is that I have the recollection of that right are you talking about I I did you mean the Netflix deal no no the Netflix deal is three years which is interesting right but I am suggesting as Netflix begins to come in they’re already locked out of a bunch of stuff if they don’t get an NBA deal right now this might because John locked a bunch of them up so no my locking enough is gone no but but your strategy though was in fact to look so deep into the future that you had these assets for for a long ass time it was and I do think the other interesting thing you have is the rights holders should always have wanted to do short-term deals because the more often you get a chance to come up exactly you do it now the rights holders are going for longer term deals cuz I don’t I think they worried about the disruption of their traditional Partners I think you’ll see now that they’re they move to something like what the NFL did which is get an option to get out if they need a another crack at it before it would have been the buyers who would wanted an option out the buyers would want to lock in if I was ESPN I would want to get as many years on the NBA as possible that means nobody get a crack at it we did a nine-year deal because we didn’t want anybody to get a crack at it we also knew that every deal that’s expensive at the beginning is really cheap at the end but what the leagues do and you’re seeing it with the NFL and even with these new deals the league still has inventory we would sit in meetings and talk about what are we holding back what are we gon to if worst comes to worst we’ll put on MLB Network or we’ll put it on NFL network but we’re going to keep games back because we need to have more to sell what a dream when you can play football games on every day of the week because then you can spread it out and now there will be platforms that suffer and Koka before the show mentioned what exactly did YouTube pay for when they got the new Red Zone from Direct TV if all of a sudden games are in National Windows every day of the week and so there’s going to be some change in terms of value but overall it’ll be increased because I assume the NFL is going to go to seven days a week yeah before we get to Fan uh perspectives on what they now need to do to watch these games I do want to go back to Ted Sandos who’s the co- CEO of Netflix we’ve been talking about the macro of this and Ted Sandos said this in July 2023 quote we really think that we can have a really strong offering for sports fans on Netflix without having to be part of the difficulty of the economic model of live sports licensing that was the second quarter earnings call in 2023 of July um in July of 2023 um is that now looking yeah what does that say to you now every earnings call is different and uh earnings calls are like when managers meet the media you’re only responsible for what you say that particular day and it can change the next day and you can keep your job and Netflix clearly has a different view much like when we talk about tur in the NBA if they try to bid over two and a half billion then David changed his view so I’m okay with that being different a year out yeah that was third quarter 23 did you say second quarter 23 second quarter they had a third quarter a fourth quarter in a first quarter and I’m not positive of this fact but I suspect they’re earnings went up every quarter and consequently they’re in a different position and you adapt in a different position as D say he was telling you their position in the second quarter of 23 it’s clearly changing how do you guys see Netflix as an entity compared to Amazon compared to apple when it comes to their potential to just outright be the winner of now let’s call it um the evolving economic model of live sports licensing I don’t see those three either any of those either going away or merging themselves away so I’ve always thought of it as a three-legged stool with apple and Amazon and Netflix I’ve always been concerned and thought about the other streaming networks and how they’ll all consolidate and where they will end up being owned and we’ve started to see some of that but what is interesting is that Netflix and Amazon what is happening differently they all have different risk tolerance over what they want to do I would argue that what Netflix is doing with the NFL there is no risk involved what Amazon did with the Yan there is greater risk what Amazon did with Thursday Night Football doing it every week there was greater risk so Netflix is still I view them as the most conservative but I don’t view them as a candidate to have a problem well I I I agree with that but I’d look at one thing that’s different as well Netflix is a pure play Netflix is an entertainment company right Amazon and apple are not at their core entertainment companies and that provides their other business provides them with one advantage they a whole lot more cash than Netflix does on the other hand Netflix has to win at the core business and apple and Amazon don’t necessarily have to win at the core business they have to win at their Core Business yes Amazon’s Core Business Netflix started doing sending people cdss DVDs excuse me and you had to return one to get another so I think Netflix has clearly evolved into a media content company would we be shocked if Netflix continued to evolve and maybe started having different offerings to its subscribers I assume they could but it still feels to me like it’s a pure play and they want to win they know Amazon and apple have the amount of cash and market value if they wanted to they could out bid them for anything and I think you’ll see by some calculations and I’ll cite Lucas sha in his Sunday night uh newsletter at Bloomberg yep at Bloomberg did calculate that on hours watched Netflix has more than half of the total hours so they are winning big I think this is a story worth our talking about sometime too they are winning by a huge margin right now in terms of people’s entertainment time I think it was 75% well that’s why I I called them Goliath at the top is because in all of the streaming Wars when it comes to just actual tonnage of viewership Netflix is clearly the winner um and I want to point out that they’re using that tonnage to then pay about $150 million for those two games for this year um and so look uh what we’re looking at now uh now speaks to a larger concept we’ve been talking about on the show for forever which is what the consumer had been promised when it came to how this was going to go for you as a football fan because I’m looking through the list right okay if I want to watch NFL games I need to have an Amazon subscription I need to have a Netflix subscription a pcop subscription ESPN plus Sunday Ticket perhaps via YouTube and then of course access to the broadcast the big broadcasters I’m so tired of this narrative it it bores me I I I’m sorry to all the people who have to get all these subscriptions but I remember when I couldn’t watch a movie because I had HBO but not Cinemax right Cinemax but not showtime and it was just life there is no god-given right to watch every NFL game and all the people complaining oh whoa is me I need these many streaming channels give me a small break and I I do not proba you said they were promised who promised by who they weren’t promised by ESPN we were Roger busy raising our hand going you’re going to regret breaking the bundle up uh it’s it’s uh I don’t promis by whom Rich uh Greenfield I ain’t promised them that they would get that it would be cheaper when they got Choice the promise of disruption the promise of now you pay for what you want and here it is and suddenly it’s going to cost I mean David as much as you are right in saying that of course it has never been it has never been um I guess it’s always been weird in terms of like what you can and cannot access based on your assumptions as a consumer now it’s just that much more decentralized is the point literally going to different apps and devices I believe but but again I believe that people have been trained their whole lives that there were certain things they have access to and certain things they don’t and we can take this all the way to who flies first class and who flies coach there’s C who gets the suite in the hotel when you’re a traveling team there’s just things that are and to complain about it be a better player negotiate in your deal be richer is what D is yelling at the American public I think that it speaks again passionate that’s just terrible can you cut that out I I think it again speaks to how passionate people are about sports and to be fair to them on the NFL wait a minute to be fair to them on the NFL Roger Goodell not more I don’t think than three years ago said his intention was to continue to put all of his games on National broadcast networks which are available for free we just said things change they did I I didn’t say it was wrong I just sort of said if you’re a sports fan you just heard three years ago that you’re going to get them all for free but again Roger didn’t promise the American public and that will happen forever I own a share stock of a company that is doing well in the third quarter of 23 and all of a sudden it does not do as well in 24 do I get to call the co I could do a proxy fight I could try to get him removed but let me tell you I have there’s no guaranteed past performance is not indic a future result okay so David ever the litigant you’re right that there is no lawsuit no class action suit on the basis of this alleged promise a a term of a term of art a figure of speech that I used for the expectations that sports fans have had forever that this thing was going to be a thing that they could enjoy um in ways that um didn’t feel exploitative and I now just wonder if it’s going to get to a point John where it feels like I this is I I I just want to watch the games without being charged by every single tech company in the world uh I don’t think that’s going to go back to that I don’t think people are going to quit watching uh and I don’t think people will stop complaining I think that’s a pretty constant Factor too and you are seen bundling so what you’re seeing or companies trying to say all right I know that you’re going to have to get Netflix but let me tell you not only you getting Christmas games but you get every Kevin Hart movie ever made you’re gonna get Happy Gilmore 2 to T wo to and you are getting all this benefit for Netflix Amazon you’re going to get a game but guess what else you’re going to get toilet paper and it’s going to get to you tomorrow and it’s going to be cheaper so I think that what we’re seeing is companies trying to explain to Consumers why it’s okay to do business which is why John I believe that Netflix is not going to be so pure going forward and I think they’re going to look for different revenue streams to get more money out of their subscribers so the movement here the evolution is actually in a Direction of everything old being new again because by the way guess what’s coming back too commercials advertising so I want to just explain for everybody what it means when these tech companies are experimenting now with live sports with live events which means by the way advertising right so John explain what’s happening here in terms of the great return to advertising broadly speaking I guess well I’m not positive it’s a great return to advertising an extraordinary amount of AD Revenue as is now going to a few technology platforms and I not sure I understand yet but assuming they have more data which they do than anybody else they will actually be able to charge more money per ad than anybody else all this means is that more and more money is going to move over to the big Tech platforms and I’m counting Netflix there as a tech platform and and I think what’s coming is not ad buys that are General ad buys they’re going to be so targeted and that’s the Evolution that we’ve seen and if anyone has social media and you look at your feed there’s a reason I have 17 carry-on suitcases and 49 toiletry kits because I buy them and then they keep bring bringing me the best one here’s the best one and so that sort of targeting advertising I would think that the least 49 times you decided to upgrade your toil kit what’s going on because of the way they hang and the different zipper components and it doesn’t drip and you don’t have any leakage this will separate me and David once again cuz you don’t use a toilet friends I use a one of those plastic bags and put my toothpast toothpaste deod in one of those plastic bags I can’t tell if you’re joking or not no no that’s what I actually do I thought you were supposed to do that David in the airport you got to have one of those clear bags I never take my bags out yes I do not but in any case the point is thank you for again Illuminating how gross you are but it’s not gross it’s transparency literal transparency literal transparency thank you I’m excited excited for what I have been calling The Minority Report age to happen which is when you walk into a store they read your eye and say you have not bought jeans which are size 29 in 6 months walk to the left we’ve got a pair of jeans for you in your size and I think we are assuming you didn’t lose weight or game weight well they’re looking at you and yes yeah leakage accounted for but hold on I want to give a quote here from the the ad Chief at Netflix who says quote bringing our adte inhouse will allow us to power the ads plan with the same level of Excellence that’s made netfli leader in streaming technology today which is to say that the company is building an in-house advertising technology platform giving marketers new ways to buy and measure and monetize the American mind I’d like to say I saw that quote before I talked and I had not but that’s what I was trying to say but much less eloquently that’ll be great we see what other businesses they can run they’ve run the newspaper publishing business out of business yes the magazine business out of business I don’t know what’s next radio maybe I mean uh but did you complain about typewriters being out of business this is just progress no well the only the we don’t get into here but you do reach a point where the justice department at some point is going to have to decide if two or three companies owning 75% of the ad Market is a good idea correct and I I I personally am not looking forward to having my eyes red when I walk into a uh store and being told what to do but we’re no longer catering to people of your demographic the world is not so it’s not about that was always ACC it’s always been about 18 to 34 year olds and the problem is we age out of that yeah but there’s always 18 to 34 and so what you’re saying you don’t appreciate is companies and I think you’d agree with this they’re okay with that yeah I read it oh actually I think maybe Scott Galloway said this was is people just think they want choice they actually want to be told what to do they want to know they want the computer to tell them what song to listen to next what movie to watch next I deliberately if I get any toilet bag kit upgrades I do not buy it because I’m not going to be subject to that be the last hold out this can you imagine him when they ask for recommendations when you watch something you’re supposed to give a thumbs up or thumbs down as a way to help the algorithm send content your way or I never so dud you lie like who are you fooling that’s a good idea why no no I just ignore it he’s a conscientious objector that what I’m amazed at is every time I make a damn telephone call it says rate this call I mean like rate it based on what I just had an argument with somebody that’s a bad call uh the sound quality the the what I hit not now I hit not now when only have to you have to hit I am suddenly very concerned that both of you are regularly being hacked you don’t ever get those do you you wait am I the only one with you gets the alerts after call all the time and with the app and I right not now You’ never you’re full of you may know actually how to block that uh right yeah I’m not I’m not necessarily encountering your your problems of technology or leakage at this rate 29 I think that’s inappropriate to discuss David’s leakage speaking of what is being leaked the great rebundling proceeds a pace and you have all these corporations now signaling guess what we’re teaming up and so we’ve had okay let’s start with a with a remembrance of the sports bundle and that was ESPN and fox and Warner Brothers Discovery saying hey you want Sports we’re going to give you access to the channels in so far as they have sports on them that was what we talked about before and now we have uh a Disney plus and Hulu and Max combination a triumvirate and then now also uh we have uh Comcast doing a peacock Netflix Apple TV thing and so what do these things resemble to you guys well to to be clear and we’ve talked about this before the first bundle is nothing but a smaller Cable Bundle it’s streaming but it is linear channels let’s not call it a bundle I agree with you yeah it’s a sports bundle of networks I guess we don’t agree well we didn’t agree on not calling the bundle we agreed but no so the second one is really just the Walt Disney Company which you can already buy Disney Plus Hulu bundle also giving the chance to buy get Max and for another discount and peacock I mean uh Comcast is actually this is actually the competition for the pure entertainment companies that want to flee the Distributors right they want to be direct to Consumer and go straight and Comcast protecting their business because you need a Comcast service of some point in order to get that bundle you’re still staying within Comcast you have to be within Comcast you have to be a customer so the the last bundle you described that everyone is all excited about it’s only available if you do business with Comcast prior to doing this bundle you and I are running into different people if you’re running people who are excited by that listen we definitely travel in different circles my circle hugely excited my day has been made because I’m a Comcast subscriber and I can now add what can I add Netflix and Apple tv there’s nothing that David social network loves more than an upgraded carry-on suitcase and the quote unquote streamer saver bundle that Comcast us about oh my gosh streamer saver I’m going to go into business to help name things because you don’t like any names streamer saver sounds like a a lightweight RV I’m in the streamer saver what does that mean d you’re saving streams or you sa I think it means you’re saving money by streaming yes Brian Roberts says this the goal is to quote add value to Consumers and quote and another quote here take dollars out of other companies streaming businesses um yeah so that’s the competition ition between uh they are a streamer but they’re also a distributor and that’s where they make most of their money so Comcast as not we talked about pure media plays Comcast is not that right Comcast sells you internet everything and sells you cable and so what does that make Comcast when we think about all of these castles in this now uh map of of sports rights well I think they’re a pillar they have content as well I mean if you ask me to name the pillars we said before Amazon apple and Netflix I think there’s another group of behemoths that you would call Comcast you would you’d have to call Fox in that in that genre and you have to look at Spectrum in that genrex companies I’m not sure that’s interesting David the box is interesting and we should talk about them I thought you were going to go to their they’re the three Behemoth and then which of the traditional companies are going to make it to me because of the brands and the content they have Walt Disney is a pillar to me because Comcast two-thirds of their revenue and cash flow come from their non-entertainment businesses they have the cash flow lack of debt that means they will survive you get to Fox CBS WB Warner Bros Discovery I’m not sure they are pillars I’m not sure they can survive including com Fox which has no streaming plan Fox remains a pure play linear business I think all they’re going to do is once again they’re the best people in the world at making money uh in some ways they sold a lot of assets that were in declining value and I think at some point Fox will be sold because they’re not built to last into the Digital streaming age well it also could be a function of Murdoch dine and the and the kids wanting to are you suggesting he’s dying so are you act accordingly so are you so everybody listening this too but we can talk about that later I I I guess I would like to make the point about these companies Paramount as an example and caveat I do work for CBS part as well but they’re struggling a lot of debt Sky Dan that deal fell apart Sony that deal could be falling apart the question is what will happen to Paramount will all of these mergers that have happened in that business now they’re being broken up and so in the streaming World we’re only at the merger point after the merger Point comes the breaking up point when you find out who can make it and who can’t so to John’s point we’re only in the beginning of seeing who wins and we can’t declare Netflix the winner yet but it’s going to be fascinating what will happen and how quickly it will happen and I got a prediction when we do predictions later well David zaslov says quote it does feel like this is a moment in terms of what the next year two years will bring referring to this restructuring the business looking a lot different in two to three years years he says it’ll be a lot better for consumers another non promise that sounds like a promise but I digress when it comes to what alliances are being forged is it surprising that these are the alliances right okay Disney Hulu and Max of course Disney and Hulu are part of the same thing but Disney and Warner Brothers Discovery is that surprising to you guys is the fact that on the other side of things it’s Netflix and Apple TV and peacock getting together like I’m just curious about the uh the tribal surv toar Survivor language I was just going to use this Survivor I was talk about alliances as the first person voted off his season of Survivor David thank you what did you learn about these alliances in the old days there’s something called Old ER and new era in the old days you formed an alliance and you stuck to that Alliance and that was your group and you rode them through thick or thin in the new era of Survivor you make an alliance and then it changes every day you have a new group who you’re loyal to and then you make a move and then you get a new group and I think that that’s what media companies are doing they form alliances they announce them and then they’re ready moving on because right now Turner is a great example they are fighting cats and dogs can you fight cats and dogs with NBC over the NBA cats and dogs rain rain cats and dogs you fight I can’t remember the expression I’m not a raining cats and dogs tooth and nail is the expression coka thank you they’re fighting tooth and nail over right bra is such a fascinating place and in fact they could end up can you see a world where David partners with NBC in another issue you could I I think these the alliances you’re seeing right now I don’t Comcast does not Comcast benefits if the TV bundle stays together as long as possible so I don’t think they’re going to make an alliance with their streaming service that hurts their underlying business which is actually more valuable than their media business uh I think you’re seeing the traditional media companies that don’t have cash flow from other things getting together just because they’re need to they to get big enough Netflix have Netflix doesn’t have cash flow from other things well all Netflix has agreed is that if you’re a Comcast subscriber you can buy Netflix through Comcast and maybe Save A Buck or two that’s all it means it means that you’re doing a lot of different deals my guess is Netflix would do that deal with these other bundles they just want as ubiquitous a distribution as possible they in fact are the new the new uh linear Network in a way and that they just want to be in 100 million homes so what’s interesting is that if that’s Netflix’s goal they’re going to get there through acquiring content which they’re starting to do with the NFL by producing content by being a studio of content and then by buying other people’s content and it used to be they thought they could just do other people’s DVDs then they started doing other people’s movies and they said wait a minute we got to do our own movies so then they started that and now they’re up to the sports part where it’s hey we’ll make up a sport that’s the golf and all that ridiculous tennis and all the stuff now they realize all right we can’t do that let’s go now to the brick and mortar and the brick and mortar is actual right steals yeah I I think that’s true I I I actually think Netflix has the chance to remain a Pure Play I don’t it’s always the case that if you have subscribers you’re going to try to figure out other revenue streams but I think they have benefited from a real focus on a long-term goal that some of these other companies have not had in the way Fox benefited from not doing streaming and now could end up being sold because they’re so far behind get sold for so much money they sold off some parts for $71 billion right and they are they’re continuing to earn a lot of cash they’re really a family controlled business so and I think they Paramount and I think they will be enough money to go around even if they have to for many many generations even if they have to sell that’s not the question you’re again you’re putting your slant on this conversation based on your thoughts on distribution of wealth it’s not a question of how rich the murdocks will get it’s a question of what is the value of a company and what keeps the value growing and what you heard zasloff say is oh it’s going to be great for consumers in the next two to three years he’s totally full of it nothing he does is with the consumer in mind it’s all for the shareholder well that’s actually I’ve learned this from you that’s his job not his job to worry about the consumers I agree but but I like I don’t want to be fooled I don’t want the audience to be fooled thinking that hey everything’s going to be better in 2 to three years just you wait because I don’t agree with that no it’s going to be if expensive is worse and for most people it is it’s going to be wor expensive I mean isn’t it expensive is only better if the value out strips the increase in the expenditure and if you can afford it that’s less than relevant this feels like a riddle that only Rich guys can solve by the way when is it better to pay more for something it’s like well there are people who go to the grocery store and decide between different brands that are both less lesser Brands but one may be more expensive and they’re making the decision is it worth it to buy the Jolly Green Giant peas or the whatever other kind so I I think that everybody does this Pablo but thank you for another only rich people joke I mean look we’re rich guys only fans this is how we operate I hate your feet and your calves I want to get to what David zaslov is saying when it comes to the changing tune he’s had around the NBA as he once again shows up at Madison Square Garden with a Nick’s cap that looks about 30 minutes old and he’s sitting there grinning and they’re saying at their upfronts and this was another executive at Warner Brothers Discovery saying that they look forward to another season of the NBA and coming to an agreement with the league that makes sense for all of the parties and meanwhile John I need your understanding of what it is that they even have the power to do when it comes to this matching right because zaslav and wbd have made noises about how they can match apparently um Comcast’s bid or uh Amazon’s bid and you’re the guy who happened to sign the existing deal so I did sign the existing deal and I do not believe it had the right to match we negotiated that deal at the same time that TNT did negotiate their deal and they were close to exact other than the Zach money or the exact games I am puzzled and don’t understand how they could have a right to match and I really have a hard time understanding how they could have a right to match Amazon because that is not even the same package you get a right yeah you get a right to renegotiate your own package an exclusive negotiating window uh I never had much luck getting a matching right because that dramatically decreases the rights holders chances to get the most money um so I don’t I’m puzzled uh and I do not believe we had that right I do not believe TNT had that right um which would mean that subsequently somehow when there was this consolidation of these assets into Warner bro’s Discovery they got the NBA to agree to let them have a matching right I don’t think we need to tell people in the booth what to clip because basically what he’s now saying just to make sure we’re getting it everywhere what John Skipper just said is that what Turner has been doing for the last two months is ly no I didn’t say that I said I’m puzzled because to my knowledge that that’s that is a difference so there is simply telling you Bas on my knowledge I am not accusing anyone of lying do you think Turner has a matching right yes or no I’m not in court law and I love when we get to the deposition phase of the show I’m trying to make a point here John and you’re not let John is saying is that intent I’m an excellent witness exactly that you experience in these matters I am too it’s not for me to accuse anybody of mendacity but I’m puzzled by it puzzled because you have signed a deal that is supposed to be quite similar to the deal that they are also working with and doesn’t have a matching right and doesn’t have the thing that they say that they have I can’t I can’t be privy or or read anybody’s mind as of what may have happened subsequent to those signatures you make me smile you really do I I I can barely deal with you but you make me smile so the question here David is like the questions that John cannot answer and will not answer under oath or otherwise is why are they saying this because it does not seem to be true and and what’s worse is if they’re saying it and a they don’t have it or B they can’t match it which is where it looks like this is going that M NBC is going to get this package it just makes them look worse that’s my question what’s I don’t know their strategy here and clearly it’s going to have to come out when the announcements made and what you heard at the upfronts it’s really not outstanding to say this during your up fronts of course they have one more year that’s how long the deal is they’ve got one more year in their deal that’s not news that you would give at an upfront that doesn’t get anyone excited about anything they had Barkley and sha not in studio last or whenever night it was because they were doing the upfronts for Turner yes but to say what that we have another year and we’re excited about it you could have delivered that they will do good ad business in the next year and they’re just reminding the advertisers in the audience not to change their budgets yet it’s a great point about what the upfronts are people let’s explain that I’ve never seen upfronts get this amount of attention as they’re getting recently with I think Jason Kelce was doing an upfront and Tom Brady announced what the uh game was that he was going to start with Browns Cowboys up front or when you are giving a sneak peek to advertisers what’s coming next and why you should be budgeting because they’re all doing their budgets for our stuff yeah they’re completely unnecessary now by the way and they’re mostly a factor of people still wanting to yet four or five days in New York City it’s amazing come see a few shows and see the Knicks and Rangers play because it started with the networks who of course released a whole new season every fall and they would have half a third 40% 60% of new programs so they would come in show you clips of the new programs and say here’s where you need to put your money introduce you to the stars who are going to be in the new programs and it was a world in which there were The Upfront and then the agencies would commit their money they would say oh NBC we’re going to commit $86 million out of you know doy Dane and burnbot to your programming that’s why you did the upfronts now the decisions are made every week every day I don’t know if anybody is actually guaranteeing uh Turner anymore that they will spend x amount of money during the year they probably are little B if it came across my desk to pay for any employees to go to upfronts I would deny the expenditure it is a simp just ask for vacation days and take your vacation I don’t know what business is being done they’re pretty an acronis I mean there’s not really much reason for them although I am a lover of New York City so anytime a whole bunch of people come I can understand the appeal John would approve those expense reports yeah you wouldn’t even look at them well look it’s look the hard problem now is do you want to be the the company that doesn’t do it so everybody’s in town and they’re going around to see so that’s what I was going to ask like what is the in terms of all this being a measuring contest an ego measuring contest um it feels like you do it because everyone else is doing it it’s the worst excuse we hi I’m David Samson all right I’m good one year we did not send anyone to the major league winter meetings and we got in trouble because it wasn’t worth the money we weren’t doing any deals like who cares I’m not approving anybody to go to these meetings and you were the only one yes God that’s perfect and then we got in trouble and unsurprised we had to send people so we made our GM drive we wouldn’t fly them and and it was we were making a point to the league which is enough of this and that’s how I view the upfronts if you are paying for people to go I understand your love of New York and I do love it too but the world’s changing there was a reason for upfronts I think there were a couple of companies that tried to stop doing them at some point and at one point people are also trying to cut back the expenses the ABCs were always done at Lincoln Center Jimmy Kimmel hosted it’s a big deal it’s hundreds of thousands perhaps seven figures in some cases uh to but it still isn’t expenditure of expenditure mean well the shiniest toys are brought out for everybody to Marvel at the new stars and all of it Barkley didn’t fly commercial to New York to do the upfronts for Turner by the way we were in Bristol Connecticut so our folks did Drive in fact we usually brought a bus uh and Kenny m l our up front and he was already on uh on the payroll so we were good so no incremental money we spent did you put them in hotels or did you bu back we had a Broadway stage and uh we hired a company to put on the show right I remember being at one of these one year and Kenny M was I believe like flying through the air was suspended from like the ceiling of a Broadway Spider-Man set you’re lucky he didn’t fall it’s a very inside reference to a horrible horrible injury it’s not that inside do people not know that Spider-Man the Broadway show people kept falling from their from the roof and Dy and they cancel I don’t know if they died I did not make space in my brain to remember that this is a weird thing for me to have to Google very quickly at the end of a show but did Spider-Man musical performer Spider-Man die uh I believe something very bad happened to a SPID performer in the middle of a show and that show closed and I went to that show near death accident near thank thank God God your spidey sense was slightly wrong was slightly off and yet it does tingle all of the time um anything at the end here that you guys are thinking about on the way out cuz we have like 2 minutes I believe I’m thinking about the NFL if we have a minute I I am just absolutely shocked and in awe of their strength and of the fact that they are clearly the top league in every way now and they’re not satisfied with being number one and this Netflix deal is just another example it’s just the beginning they don’t want to own the professional sports landscape they want to own the whole damn world and the rest of the leagues they better stop trying to play catchup because it’s not going to work and to me the fight is now for who can be second in terms of other leagues because the NFL I believe they’ve lapped the field and there’s no turning back a dire a dire Proclamation yeah you are talking of course about uh the United States of America because there is another sport which arguably is the biggest sport in the world and that’s what everybody else calls football and where teams can’t make money where teams can’t make money they’re losing money hand over fist we can do a whole show on that if you want no no that’s an that would be an interesting show there are teams that make money let’s put a pin in that that debate and you did say everybody’s fighting for second uh if you’re fighting on the international stage there is a fight right and and the NBA is in that fight they are in the fight to be the second most important sport in the world not in the United States United States the American football is king and you could argue that in the United States you were talking professional you said the word professional but if you were just talking Sports you can make the argument college football is the second largest sport I’m AR understand why you say that and you can also make the argument that it’s professional now it is professional it’s totally changed so I count college football as pro football okay it’s football it’s football it’s American football North americ football and so what you’re saying is that um if you were running a baseball team today you would have made peace with the fact that you’re flying coach relatively that is a sad but true truth and that’s you asked me what I was thinking about this week and when the Netflix deal was announced remember that’s in conjunction with MLB’s Roku announcement there were two announcements two very different upfronts yeah if you ask me what I was think about this week it mostly wasn’t Sports so what would be relevant to this show and probably about time to close it up I want to know what you were thinking about I can’t remember that’s it PA I got well mostly I’ve been thinking about the Knicks oh there it is and how damn great Jaylen Brunson is to watch unbelievable the smallest guy on the court last night the most dominant guy on the court I don’t know how he gets those shots up I think he’s the most I think most popular athlete since Eric Jeter in New York City oh he’s yes oh he’s great yeah he’s going to own the city though the the Knicks may not have enough players to beat the Celtics much as I love him he’ll own the city but what about the debt service you’ll have a lot to repay I’ll tell you that David and John please shake hands so we can end this show did he oh my God ridiculous I’m a petri dish sitting up here