Browns minicamp, Guardians trade targets, Cavs coaching, and more – Sports4CLE 6-13-24

Casey Kinnamon, Paul Hoynes, and Sam Amico join Dave Bacon to discuss the latest news and notes in Cleveland sports.

[Music] [Applause] good Thursday afternoon to 4:00 time for sports 4 CL hope you’re having a great afternoon thanks for joining us uh Browns wrapped up mandatory mini camp out in Berea two things were the big stories um of the Browns mandatory mini camps number one deshun Watson threw in seven on sevens for the first time didn’t do that during OTAs did do it during mandatory mini camp didn’t do the 11 on 11 jet but there is progression there the other thing um Amari Cooper not at mandatory mini camp um the thought is he wants a new contract heading into the final year of his deal um scheduled to make a little over 20 million highend of the wide receiver Market is now at 35 million um Tony Rizzo Aaron goldhammer from ESPN Cleveland talking about that Cooper contract situation what is AAR want we’re going to have to find this out I think he doesn’t want to enter the last year of his contract and not have any protection for next year I think that is the bigger issue than the amount of money the the other question is that I have is why didn’t this get done before now I mean it’s the obvious trust your eyes they’re far apart they have to be if they were close you know Andrew Barry GM we just do it and get it done they’re far apart but what are the Browns without him this year and let’s welcome in Casey kinman from dog pound daily as as well as the Barking Browns podcast that last little bit um it’s tough to answer that they the Browns need Amari Cooper in that wide receiving core yeah as much as I feel good about the upside of this room it’s based on the consistency he gives you that allows you to take chances on projections on players and feel good about their upside because you know you have that constant in aari Cooper if you take Amari Cooper out this wide receiver room all of a sudden those question marks get a little bigger you know know so um but I agree with RZ like I I do think that you know the they’re what’s your definition of close are are they going to get this done during mini camp no so you start to think of what does this mean for July I think that that’s where my mind immediately goes you know and if there’s still not an agreement by July then alarm Bells need to start going off you know this is you know Min camps one thing but if he’s not Inked by you know training camp we get to the Green Brier then I think you have a major issue on your hands all right so let’s hold on to that uh thought relative to Amari Cooper because I’m going to tie this back together um another player who is entering final year of his contract that you know the Browns would like to extend is Jeremiah Wu coroa really good linebacker remember second round pick so there’s no fifth year option this is the final year of his deal um auu coroa was asked um is he thinking at all about a contract extension my agents really handle those things if they if they you know are negotiating they’ll contact me and they’ll you know um give me certain prices and things like that and hey look what are you looking for but I don’t give much thought to it it’s it’s really about ball is that easy to kind of put out of your mind or is it a process where you have to remind yourself hey don’t worry about this I can’t control it well it’s about compartmentalization you know there’s a time for it and then there’s a time to focus on football you know there’s different you know you may go home and maybe 6:00 at night you’re done studying and then okay you may give some time to it but there’s always a time and the place for everything and Casey know enough how this front office operates there’s a sequence to the way you do the contracts because it has implications relative to the salary cap this year and who you have to renegotiate to create cap space for so it may be a matter of they got to get J’s contract done before they can deal with the restructurings before they can do um Amari Cooper’s contract I I kind of believe they’re going to find a way to get it done but I think there’s a number of dominoes and and you know there’s chest pieces that have to be moved around the board by the front office yeah you laid it out great I mean there’s a lot of moving Parts here right and we’ve seen precedent if you look at last year with Grant delpit you know similar situation to J seconde pick going in the final year of your deal you know they don’t they understand what these players projections are and they want to get it done as early as possible but sometimes there’s a lot of hurdles in the way first uh delpit was an in season extension is that something we’re we’re going to see with j and also we know they really haven’t coveted the linebacker position as a whole that JK is a Difference Maker so he’s got to be a priority but there’s going to be a a way they go about this to where it may seem like it’s dragging out but it’s probably just the natural timeline that they view with all their second round picks and we’ll get to revisit this again next year with Martin Emerson yeah and again you know that that’s where it’s great that you got him on the in the second round you were able to trade up the the one downside is as a second round pick you got to pay him a year quicker when when they turn into really good play and he’s a really good player um just a gut feeling do you think I got to believe they find a way this front office is really good at it they find a way to to structure a contract that satisfies Cooper enough that keeps him in the fold Andrew Barry said as much I you know and and they had a pretty good idea this wide receiver Market was going to blow up I don’t know if if it’s blown up more than they even they thought it would yeah yeah I think that that has a little something to do with it because you heard Rumblings about this back at the combine that he was the guy they were looking to extend and kind of get ahead of it well the market got on top of you now those uh the money getting thrown around is a little more significant than they were probably planning on but you’re talking about someone who produces this isn’t this is someone who is in their Prime the difference is if you look at J someone coming into their Prime you’re not worried about the years because you’re going to have it for the breath of his prime someone like Amari Cooper while they’re in their Prime they’re closer to the end than they are the beginning so you’re not going to you’re going to be hesitant to throw three four years around you know you’re probably looking at some maybe a three-year extension with an out after year two which is probably the sticking point with the Mari camp where they want that long-term security you know and the bottom line is we don’t know what the player’s thinking if Amari Cooper’s thinking hey I want to play for another five seasons well the reality of the situation is then those last three probably aren’t going to be in Cleveland yeah and you know the flip side of it is the front office has been really good about finding a way okay we’ll give you a little bit more guaranteed little bit more signing B there there are ways to incentivize it and and um I can only go by what Andrew Barry and the front office has done they’ve been pretty good at finding ways um to get those things done um Jeremiah usuk koroa again during that media availability asked how this defense can improve in year two under Jim Schwarz it’s about finding a mistakes that we had finding the things that we didn’t do as well as we wanted to and correcting those mistakes you know it doesn’t have to be complicated we don’t have to go to the Moon you know find another planet right I think the simplest thing is to find the things that we did wrong and correct those things is is that kind of nice to be able to build on on that success you had you know obviously there hasn’t always been that kind of stability here but just sort of to build on what you’ve had last yeah the good thing about you know when a team has success or whether it’s little or a lot uh there’s a culture that’s built when the culture is built then there’s a system that people can uh you know step right into right and continue to do the same things uh find the things that will Elevate and what they can uh use to build on that same culture that has already been there so I think for us you know it’s good to see that you know we still have the same culture the same attitude the same principles right we could just go right in uh and put forward what kind of taste sorry what kind of taste has that Houston game left uh not a good one uh not a good one I mean obviously we lost so you know anytime that that that is is not um a w or win then it’s it’s you know no bueno and Casey I love the answer it’s not rocket science there we know what we didn’t do well we got to go fix it yeah and it’s it’s in you’re one of a system to know that they they achieved what they did achieve well then now that’s the Baseline that’s the jumping off point now it’s about building now it’s about building on top of the system that you’ve already been in for a year this is you know this is where continuity comes into play and not just the players it’s the coaches and it’s not just your star players it’s the depth players so everyone’s already bought in now it’s about just taking that next step you know and and knowing that there’s always things you can improve on you know obviously they they were a marketly better defense at home than they were on the road so now it’s about tackling that and making that travel weaponizing the defense on the road because they already have the pieces in place their selling can be as high as they want it to be so there’s a school of thought that the Browns brought back pretty much everybody you know I know Anthony Walker he talki talki left um there’s a school of thought that you know you bring back some guys and you add to it and you get better that way there’s another school of thought that you know if you bring back everybody you know how the pieces fit um what are your thoughts just relative to that well especially since it’s year two you know like sometimes you can have too many players that have been in a certain system for too long and messages start echoing Hollow but these guys are all hungry they’re all entering their Prime together like just the the age of the players as a whole the nucleus of this team like I think it’s a it’s a perfect recipe to bring everyone back and then if you look at what they did lose you lose Anthony Walker well he’s a tremendous leader you know I do think they have an upgrade and Hicks what Hicks can give you on the field but how does that work off the field how does that work in the locker room missing that voice you know this is going to have to come together and Training Camps re youbuild on that especially a trip to the the Green Brier where these guys really get to acclimate with each other and they’ll get to know Hicks and his leadership style and it’s just you got to figure out the perfect recipe you know so I do think losing talkie talkie is going to hurt uh he’s a very physical presence can bookie Watson be that guy has yet to be seen so there’s still they’re a little bit unknown but when you bring back you know 10 of 11 starters on a defense who’s ascending you know and just think about it because at every level they have star players they have elite players at every level whether it’s the defensive line The Edge room you know you look at dvin Thomason in the middle you go to the cornerback room there’s elite players there you know you got delpit coming back off injury I think you like the recipe of what they have but it’s all about just letting it kind of evolve now because they already have the jumping off point all right so the question is ceiling and floor for the Browns defense U next year just in your in your eyes Dave the ceiling it’s top defense in the league you know I think the talent dictates that I think you have the talent to go out there and be the tip of the spear defense in the NFL they gave the fewest yards in the NFL by 333 yards you just look at the things they can’t improve on they were the most penalized defense with 118 penalties for 923 yards you need to improve that I think they need to improve their Red Zone scoring defense a lot of I mean you got to understand the Browns also turned the ball over more than any team in the league so they were put in a lot of disadvantageous situations but you got to still if you’re an elite defense you got to carry that mentality when if you get on a short field you still got to give up nothing you know three points can be too much sometimes so they have to take that mentality that they are Elite at every level because between the 20s they they were very hard to move the ball against but sometimes they found themselves short field they’d give up an easy touchdown tighten those things up you know just a little thing here a little thing there give up three less points on the road just three less points and all of a sudden you’re in a different Echelon of Defense so the ceiling top defense in the league floor probably somewhere around 12 to 15 yeah that’s fair um all right case Ken not going to step side take a quick time out other side of the break we flip sides of the ball we’ll talk offense straight ahead on Sports for Cle stay with us money maker from the Ohio Lottery has no interest in beating around the bush Money Maker you play the game you could win money up to $2 million with more than 88 million in prizes from 50 to $500 Money Maker Cuts right to the cash unlike this [Music] guy we continue talking browns with Casey kinman from dog pound daily and The Barking Browns podcasts Chris Sims Mike Florio from Pro footb talk on what Ken dorsy can bring to the Browns offense that has been missing the last couple of years with desun Watson dorsy has experienced showcasing star quarterbacks the Browns have supposedly a star quarterback who had better play like one sooner rather than later and like if the goal is let’s get the most out of our quarterback like it’s not system driven it’s this is what our guy can do we need to have plays circumstances decisions progressions everything that lets him be a star and maybe that’s part of getting the most out of Deshawn Watson not treating him like another piece of the offensive puzzle but saying we need to run the offense through him Russell Wilton thing he wanted to have the offense run through him he didn’t want to be part of his system maybe stefansky has just been conditioned and I’m spitballing here I really I system and he’s like no no no it’s star star star right no I think more like what you’re is in a little bit more of like curtailing it towards the player rather than the player curtailing to the offense and me me making it work that way a little bit you know we talk about that a lot I I you know I I think there could be some value in that there too and I think with what Ken dorsey’s offense what I would Envision in what we’ve seen in Buffalo right throwing the ball down the field a little bit more going back to the Carolina Panthers and Cam Newton that’s what they do I don’t necessarily think Deshawn Watson’s at his best when he is too West coasty right he didn’t run a West Coast offense with Bill O’Brien and them in in in Houston and Casey that Mike Florio in that beginning part of that um said what I’ve been trying to say probably better than than I’ve said it this this offense needs to kind of revolve around Deshawn Watson that’s what you brought him here for that’s why you you gave up what you gave up and you paid him what he did I don’t know if they were trying to do that before yeah and it was a good point by Sims as well you know the stans’s ran a system and he’s he’s had to do it with quarterbacks that don’t you wouldn’t consider uh highly athletic or the a premier talent I think the closest you could probably get was Kirk Cousins you know up until this point so there’s a different philosophy when you’re trying to build around your quarterback and I I do think if you just think to dorsey’s history as a quarterback coach uh two Divergent Styles in Cam Newton and Josh Allen but the goal was the same in the end uh to maximize their talents and their offenses looked wildly different from what they were in Carolina to what he was doing in Buffalo so it is about trying to to to get the most out of your quarterback maximize the talent available and while both Cam Newton and Josh Allen were phenomenal talents they did it in different ways you know uh with Cam it was utilize his legs threaten the defense as many times as you can to get everybody to suck up and then you can hit the long ball with Josh Allen it’s almost like trying to like break a wild horse you know he wants to go you got to kind of pull him back and let him take those deep shots so it’s about finding The Sweet Spot and trying to communicate with your quarterback to figure out how do we get this thing to spark how do how do we get the most out of you to be explosive to to give you Concepts that you’re comfortable with and that you feel that you feel that you could attack a defense you know we really didn’t get to see that last year last year it felt like there was a lot of hesitancy so how do we get you playing free out of your own mind and just making plays so I think that dor is experience with the quarterbacks is going to pay off greatly this year so what do you expect to see we keep hearing that this is going to look a lot like the offense in you know the beat reporters Mary Kay and that has said it’s going to look a lot like what they did in in Houston um with DeShawn Watson and Bill O’Brien what does that to you what does that mean well I’m going to keep harping on it man that this team just needs to get motion motion motion wind are addressing sideline to sideline but I think they need to be really Divergent with the types of alignments you know creating Bunch scenarios with their wide receivers to get free releases for players like Jerry Judy Elijah Moore you know we already know what Cooper is capable of so kind of give them that DeAndre Hopkins role where you’re a two-way go player at all times check with me at the line you know don’t be don’t dogmatic into timing based stuff sometimes you got to rely on players to make plays and when you got someone like Cooper you need to lean on that and then not just be this is you know no matter what you’re running a curl here some sometimes you got to kind of go off script and that’s something deshan has excelled at in his career you know and it’s obviously the best plan isn’t for the plan to play to break down but when the play does break down you have a player who can kind of go into his bag and make things happen so kind of allow room for that in your offense yeah and the other thing that when I think of deshun Watson in Houston processed things really quickly he saw mismatches and boom ball was in so allow him to do that yeah and you heard him talk about you know in years past he had always set the protection at the line when he got to Cleveland that wasn’t the scheme so if that’s what he needs to do to get involved to get to where he feels like he’s dictating let him come to the line let him assess the protections and just allow him to get in that mind my mind frame to where he’s dictating yeah so the other thing is you know how big a deal are the choice routes relative to to what Watson does well we’ we keep hearing that’s going to be a part of this yeah and that’s a good question because we keep leaning on what does that mean for the receivers for someone like Cooper or more even David Bell I think that’s a good thing for someone like Cedric Tilman maybe not so much but none of that matters if it doesn’t work with Watson you know so and I think that this kind of leans to his off-script type mentality so I I think it could be favorable but he hasn’t been in such a heavy you know choice rout system and choice routes they’re they’re in every office it’s we it’s a buzz word right now but they’re just baked in coverage beaters so I think that it could lend favorably for someone of the mentality of Watson who’s looking to to make the most out of a play to make a a good play a great play and you can do that through Choice routes if the receiver and the quarterback are on the same page and it comes down to their ability to process defenses now defenses can also throw a monkey wrench and be able to hide coverage and disguise things and make it look like something when it’s really something else so it just comes down to time on task and that that’s where these these reps right now are valuable that’s why when they get in the training camp and when they get to go against other ones when they have these uh inner squads against like Minnesota later I think that that that’s where you kind of build on that and you find out what this could become so the other thing that keep going back to and Lance risland and I say this all the time the Browns offense doesn’t get easy yards that other offenses get is that is that kind of what you’re getting at with coverage beaters and and those kind of things yeah turning things into long handoffs you know and it’s it’s providing answers it’s providing answers to questions you know when you when you come to the line and and they’re aligned and a certain they’re in tight when you’re used to seeing this specific coverage like a like a off off man how do you take advantage of that is is there a system in place for cover three when you when you get specific looks so that’s what it comes down to for me is being overprepared in a certain scenarios and underprepared in others and we didn’t see them really find answers and that’s where you get those easy yards those those you know coming to the line in a bunch formation getting a free release for Judy and having a six-yard handoff in this essence that he can you know take for 12 yards because he’s good with the ball in his hands finding scenarios where you can take advantage of that can this offense do that yeah and you know what if they can it should be a really really good year uh for the Browns and deshun Watson without question uh Casey kenman is always great stuff appreciate the time and the Insight thanks very much Casey any Tom Dave thanks for having Casey kinman make sure you check him out uh co-host of The Barking Browns podcast uh we’re going to Stepside take a quick time out we turn our attention to the Cleveland Guardians Paul hins Guardians beat reporter for Plain Dealer cleveland.com straight ahead stay with [Music] us come back to go forward back to learning new things back to pursuing your dreams TR C has flexible learning options to fit your life and every year more than 1,000 local companies provide tric students with real world learning the right education can boost your lifetime earning Power by hundreds of thousands of dollars start now with a college education you can afford try see where Futures [Music] [Applause] [Music] begin we turn our attention to the Cleveland Guardians one of the best records not only in the American League but all of baseball somewhat a surprise um the question is are the guardian serious World Series contenders here’s Aaron goldhammer from ESPN Cleveland on that topic the way that I look at this is if you win the division okay and you have a buy through the Wild Card Your World Series can Chris the key is get in and then if you avoid that wild card series that’s a big deal and right now they’re on track to not only do that but do that pretty comfortable I think if you’re a Division champion and you avoid the wild wild guard there are only four teams in all of baseball that do that at some point yeah I think you are a World Series contend with that let’s welcome in Paul hins Guardians beat reporter for plane dealer cleveland.com hoyy that would be one of the top two teams in the American League certainly possible you look at it and I talk me into the fact that they’re World Series contenders I mean my thing is just enjoy it they’re playing well are they World Series contenders yeah you know Dave I I do not know I I think uh they’re definitely a contender for the division title I mean and and uh you know that’s the key thing win the division get into the postseason and we’ve seen it so many times before you win that you get into postseason Anything Can Happen what Texas was a wild card last year won the fir won their first uh world series title uh since the moved Texas so um you know you just got to get in you just got to get to October and right now the Guardians are on their way I mean they’re playing better than I think anyone anticipated uh you know just uh they they have done just about everything right under uh rookie manager Steven vote all right so um without question that Bullpen has been lights out here’s reason for concern this quality starts um for Major League Baseball this is the list quality starters go six Innings by a starting pitcher allowing three runs or less top um top team Mariners they have 40 quality starts Phillies have 37 Blue Jays have 32 Guardians are bottom five they only have 18 ahead of just the Athletics white socks Brewers and Marlins those are three of the worst teams in baseball and the Brewers are right around 500 so hoyy Bullpen has been lights out my question I guess is man can they sustain it if if you’re asking them to go four five innings every night yeah that’s impossible Dave those they you the bullpen cannot do that they uh the Guardians know that and they know that their rotation is compromised uh you know they lose Shane Bieber Gavin Williams hasn’t made a start this year he was supposed to be a big part of that rotation um Ben Lively came back from Miami uh to with some soreness we still don’t know the extent or the possibility of the injury but you know I I would think he’s probably questionable for his next start so uh you know that that rotation is going to need some help and the the tough thing is uh that you know most of the the young pitchers are in the rotation already uh guys like Logan Allen and and Tyler I mean Tanner BBY you know they they’re in there they they’ve already graduated to the big leagues and uh you know the the the depth concerns are are definitely concerns you have EXA uh jayan Curry is down in in Columbus but we’ve seen him a couple times he’s been struggling a t uh Tyler abidi a a veteran guy who’s open a year in the bullpen with Cleveland is is at Columbus he’s a starting option um you know Joey cantillo had a great spring a left-hander but then he got hurt at the end of Camp he’s just coming back Gavin Williams is is still on a rehab assignment so they’re kind of stuck between a rock and a hard place so the question becomes um do they make a trade here are some guys that um are tied to the Guardians um as far as starting pitcher go you have uh Jesus lazardo from the Marlins um and Kevin gausman from the Blue Jays both under um Team control for multiple years I’ll get into that in a minute um you got srino manah Blackburn Sears those are young guys Tyler Anderson so lazardo is arbitration eligible the next two years this year he’s making five and a half Gusman’s 24 million this year 23 million next year 23 million in 26 I can’t see that happening Blackburn arbitration eligible next year Sears is making 745 745,000 this year and he’s under team control and arbitration eligible for the next four years so he’s got that pre-arbitration year I would think you know Lazar sardo and and the Athletics guys would would make more sense just from a dollars and cense standpoint the question becomes when you have guys that are young and under team control you go to you got to have the prospects and as we’ve mentioned you know the the Guardians have had there’s a gap now between their prospects are down at you know High a and the like yeah for sure uh Dave and uh you know I think everyone would like young controllable starting pitchers you know and lazardo is one of those guys uh he’s 26 uh JP seers uh another a lefty another Lefty that they’ve seen a you know a bunch of times over the last two years with Oakland he’s 28 so those are the kind of guys you’d like to get if if you’re Cleveland you can control them you can you know you can keep them in the system uh but they’re going to cost and uh you know and you know um you know Oakland is is not a contender obviously Miami is not a contender uh they’ve got you they’ve got a team like Cleveland in a in uh you know at over the barrel so to speak uh they can ask for what they want they can you know ask a high demand and uh if if Cleveland is serious about needing a starter and and staying in contention for the postseason uh you know they’ve got to make a tough decision I mean uh you know you know if if you’re Oakland if you’re uh if you’re Miami you’re going to ask for a guy like uh Chase deer you know the outfielder who had such a big spring in in uh with in big leag camp with Cleveland they’re going to ask for your best guys and the question is do you do you do that yeah and again they they’ll have to weigh that um another thing that will factor in and tomorrow on the show we’ll go through some of the top prospects in the draft the Guardians have the number one overall pick so that could replenish um a guy like deer that and that those are the those are the pro and cons that the front office is weighing if it is Chase the Lauder that somebody wants yeah for sure and and it’s kind of an interesting uh Time of the Season for the front office Dave because um you know right now with under the old rules before that this last the draft was moved to the All-Star Game the draft would be happening right now right you know this would probably be right right around when the draft would be taking place but now with the uh draft at at the allstar break on July four uh 14th you know you’ve got the front offices kind of right now they’re just starting to really ramp up and concentrate on the draft you know there’s they’re starting to Zone in on that then the draft takes place then there’s a big you you got to switch gears and all of a sudden talk you know trades and and uh you know the dialogue starts again all this all your uh you know your trade conversation start again until August 1 which is the deadline so this is kind of a Mad scramble right now and uh you know I don’t know if things get lost in the translation but you know there’s a lot of things going on with with all 30 uh Big League front offices right now all right so we talked a little bit about some of the starting pitching another thing you know you could certainly uh Target some hitters here are the guys that have been kind of linked to the Guardians via trade from a number of different sources Bo bashet a short stop for the Blue Jays we’ll get into that a minute uh rafo from the Angels is an intriguing one Tommy fam is on a one-year deal Luis Robert a younger guy we we’ll get into his contract situation then there’s Peterson Rooker uh jerkson profar for the Padres Michael conforto for the Giants so bashet is due 12.0 08 million this year he’s under contract next year at 17.5 million as a free agent in 2026 um Luis Robert is intriguing 12 a. half million this year 15 million next Club options for 26 and 27 at 20 million uh Rooker again the guys with the A’s 750,000 this year um 25 26 and 27 are arbitration years um so you look at those guys bashet I know a lot of high-profile writers have linked um the Guardians to bashad I that does not seem like um a move this type of move this front office makes to me it just doesn’t seem the way that it goes Robert maybe Rooker more likely to me yeah Rooker I like Rooker former number one pick of the twins the Guardians have seen a lot of him power hitter uh you know he’s with the A’s now he’s having a decent season with them uh you know I I I I’ve liked him for a long time uh you know Luis Robert Jr um you know great power big year last year but the guy can’t stay healthy Dave and and uh I really you know I I question that whole sh that unit in Chicago when they brought all those players together over the last few years you know they they haven’t accomplished a whole lot and I I wonder what the problem is so you know i’ I’d be I’d proceed with caution on on on that on that front I agree with you wholeheartedly all right before I let you go um you wrote a little breakfast with the Guardians um this past week on Pace to win a 100 games uh let’s talk a little bit about the job Steven vode has done I it I mean it’s hard to find any fault with the guy um it looks like they got another guy that can manage at the big league level yeah just he’s done a great job uh you know it you know he if you’re around him you think he’s been managing for 10 years uh you know he’s he’s open with the players I think you know just being off the The Diamond as a player you know retiring after what two years ago I think that’s really helped him relate to this this team it’s a young team uh he’s pushed all the right buttons so far and he’s so positive Dave he hasn’t you can tell he hasn’t been beaten down by you know 10 15 Big League Seasons In The Dugout so you know everything is good everybody’s phenomenal there’s like six or seven guys that are the heart and soul of the team so you know he’s he he’s I think he’s just what this ball Club needed Paul HS as always great stuff appreciate the time in the inside I’m sure is that trade deadline uh creeps up we’ll we’ll touch base with you uh more regularly appreciate it Paul thanks dud Paul HS make sure you check him out great Guardians coverage uh he is the Guardians beat reporter from Plain Dealer cleveland.com we’re in this episide take a quick time out we turn our attention to the Cavaliers we’re talking Donovan Mitchell extension with Sam Amo from hoops.com sports for C will’ll be right back stay with us come back to go forward back to learning new things back to pursuing your dreams TR C has flexible learning options to fit your life and every year more than 1,000 local companies provide trse students with real world learning the right education can boost your lifetime earning Power by hundreds of thousands of dollars start now with a college education you can afford try see where Futures [Music] begin sports for C continues we turn our attention to the Cavaliers going through the coaching search um and waiting to see uh what Donovan Mitchell decides will he sign um the extension that Cavs are certainly getting ready to offer in a couple of weeks let’s welcome in samiko from Hoops wire.com Sam um what about it yeah Mitchell is a guy that the calfs certainly want um do you get a s what’s your sense uh with Mitchell and and the extension that’s going to be presented to him yeah I I think as far as you know the coaching search well as far as the extension I I think that you know the Cavs feel pretty confident that he’s going to sign that uh the the sense around the league you know and other rival teams who would have a pretty good sense of what Donovan Mitchell plans to do because you know they may be floating things to his agent saying you know if you if you don’t sign that extension you know we’d certainly try to make a trade for you so but I don’t know that that’s the case but the sense I’m getting from opposing teams is that Mitchell is going to sign the extension in Cleveland um so I think that there’s a lot of confidence and optimism there but you know until he actually signs and makes it reality uh there’s there’s that sense of Doubt just a shred of doubt that that makes it feel like you know especially with Cleveland having experien this before with star players notably LeBron James um so if he does sign we’ve Al we’ve all heard the the reports that um Darius Garland’s Camp would ask for a trade if Mitchell resigns what do you think it means for the rest of the roster you know Garland and Allen and Moy yeah right now I can tell you that the Cavs have no intention uh are are are not really interested in moving any of their core four now we’ve heard the reports that if uh Donovan Mitchell does sign that extension Rich Paul and Darius Garland’s Camp will request a trade will’ll seek a trade because they’re not sure uh you know they don’t really like the fit of Garland next to Mitchell now I can tell you that those players get along wonderfully you know they they have a great personal relationship so it’s not about that it’s just about their fit and I think beforehand even though the Cavs now are kind of you know putting word out we don’t really want to move any of our core four which would be Garland Mitchell Allen and Mobley uh I think that they would be most open to moving Garland if number one his Camp requests a trade and and number two uh I think that maybe there was you know with Garland struggles this past season and not really fitting especially after the All-Star break after he came back from his injury his broken jaw I I think that the Cavs were probably thinking a little bit you know maybe and Garland don’t work we’ve given it two years maybe it’s time to move on and certainly they’re not going to move on from Donovan Mitchell so you know the guy to be moved on from would be Darius Garland the other thing is the Cavs aren’t going to come out and say that they’re going to move on from one of their core four because you’ve immediately devalued you know if you were going to trade Darius Garland you said yeah you devalue his trade value if you come out and say you’re going to do that so you absolutely we think he’s an allar just had a little bit of a down if if even if you’re going to trade him you’re You’re Building him up yeah and we saw that Dave you’re exactly right back in you know a decade ago when the Cavs insisted they weren’t going to trade number one overall draft pick Andrew Wiggins they s kept going on and on and on over the summer at Summer League that they weren’t going to do it they kept building him up we think he’s got a bright future next to LeBron James and then you know August before the season Andrew Wiggins gets shipped off and Uh Kevin Love Comes To Town that worked out okay so yeah absolutely they’re not going to say you know hey we we’re looking to trade Darius Garland right now because you know you you stand a chance to get a lot more for him in return should you say you know we’re we’re not motivated to trade any of these guys right now and and I’m sure that’s the way they’re approaching it um so I I think that there is a sense that they could make a move with Garland but again you can’t do anything until you find out what Donovan Mitchell’s doing um so there’s a thought that the Cavs need Evan Moy to develop into a threo shooter so you don’t clog up the middle and all that am I delusional and you know me well enough that um you can feel free to tell me I’m delusional to me he’s a guy that’s athletic he’s a he’s a big guy that can move he’s agile we’ve seen him play defense you should be able to find a way to get him in motion moving around catching the ball and shooting offensively that makes him a threat that isn’t hey go shoot threes yeah that’s exactly it you know and I don’t think the Cavs are wanting him to become you know Kevin Love or any of that they want him to be able to knock down the occasional three which I think he did this past season you know just got to improve on that a little bit more um but he’s not you know he’s not a guy who’s going to be taking seven to 10 three-pointers a game if so you you’ve kind messed it up with him because you know his best I guess his best play has come when he’s been not only a guy who’s scoring underneath but 12 to foot 15 foot range he was always he’s always been you know what the Cavs want to bring out of him is he’s such a good ball handler and passer and we saw that the first probably 40 games of his rookie year but he’s not developed anymore in that area you could tell that just by the simple eye test he’s not not bad at those things he’s just not gotten better and you know that’s where the Cavs want this new coach to come in and develop Mo get him to another level and get him playing with more confidence offensively you know there are times and games where he’s just not been uh very fluid and they want that to change they want him to become you know a Chris Bosch type or you know people have talked about Kevin Garnett I don’t know if that’s ever going to happen but you know a kind of a Cris box type where you are fluid and confident and every night you’re a threat to score 20 25 points you know defensively he’s already there Evan Moy is among the elite Defenders uh in the NBA but offensively the Cavs would like him to take another step and no it doesn’t Dave you’re right it doesn’t involve him taking a bunch of three-pointers it involves him occasionally being able to knock him down I think they would rather see him in that 12 to 15 foot range if he needs to step out and other than that get close to the basket and do your work down there things that jump out about him still really young I think he’s what 21 so yeah he is a mismatch too if you think about it he’s 611 whatever he is a big guy is probably too slow to defend him a little guy shouldn’t be strong enough to defend him and when you get in that 12 to 15 foot range it’s like how do you want me to beat you that that should be the decision that Evan Mobley has to puts defenders in do you want me to beat you with a jump shot are you going to come out and try to defend me I’m going to beat you because I’m a step quicker than you yeah and that’s just it he has that upside and I think that that’s a big reason you know that the Cavs are having a coaching search today is they want somebody to draw that out of him uh whether it be you know just playing with much more confidence much more fluidity um especially you know playing off the other guys I think there were times Cavs thought he just didn’t get the ball enough mhm you know the front office thought that so they want all those things to change and that’s it’s not going to be the only thing that determines their new coach but it would you know Evan Mobley and his rise is something that I’m sure is being brought up a lot in these coaching interviews the Cavs want him to take the next step in year four and um you know they’re they’re hoping to get a coach who can bring that out so here’s a question so we’ve kind of talked about you know Mitchell and Garland might not match I don’t what about Allen and Moy do you think those two can coexist and those are both really athletic guys yeah I think they can coexist because Jared Allen even though he’s you know set the franchise record for consecutive double doubles this past season isn’t a guy who needs the basketball to to make an impact you know he’s he’s you’ll never see Jared Allen down on the low block demanding the ball that’s just not his game his game is more rolling to the basket you know getting lobs and stuff like that cleaning up other people’s mess on the offensive glass those type of things running the floor um so I think that they work just fine together you know I’m surprised to hear people think that they don’t like they’re both down there clogging it up I I don’t think that’s the case at all now granted Jared Allen you know anything outside of 5 to 10 feet is an adventure when it comes to his shot but that’s okay he’s your Center and and he offers what he offers and uh you know one thing people seem to forget too is for years and years and years people talked about how the Cavs needed more protectors at The Rim more shot blockers more shot alars now they have two of the best in the NBA playing side by side and and that’s a huge when you talk about you know playing playoff style defense and and and just you know creating all kinds of Havoc for the other team defensively so I think that that’s why the Cavs think yeah absolutely they fit together and we’ll work it out offensively it’s okay offensively we think it can get better offensively defensively they’ve already arrived so I just don’t think that you you know when you when you have that type of front court and dominance under the basket defensively I don’t think you give that up for you know a small forwards say Sano from hoops.com and I can step aside take a quick time out other side the break we’ll talk a little bit about the Cavs coaching search who the guys they’re looking at what they might be looking for sports for Cle we’ll continue talking Cavs stay with [Music] us money maker from the Ohio Lottery has no interest in beating around the bush Money Maker you play the game you could win money up to $2 million with more than 88 million in prizes from $50 to $500 Money Maker Cuts right to the cash unlik this [Music] guy we continue talking Cavs on Sports for cl these are some of the names that we have heard the Cavs have either interviewed requested permission to interview Terry stott’s uh former um NFL or NBA head coach long shot uh for this one David Adelman Kenny Atkinson who has some head coaching experience Chris Quinn James Breo some head coaching experience uh then there’s Johnny Bryant Mike nor Dave jorger um Alex Jensen Steve hsel they will not interview Frank vogle who was um just fired as the coach of the Suns before that he was uh Lakers head coach um Sam when you look at that that list not a lot of guys jump out why do you think the Cavs are Co casting such a wide net um in their coaching search well probably for the reasons we mentioned they want to see who you know says the right things about developing Evan Moy getting creative offensively assuming you know Donovan Mitchell is back they want somebody to be able to take them to another level you know and look they they’ve made the natural steps under JB bicker staff even though it wasn’t always pretty they went to the playin tournament then they went to the first round then they went to the second round and I don’t think anybody thought even if they had Donovan Mitchell and Jared Allen healthy and Carris Levert who wasn’t healthy uh for for part of the playoffs I don’t think anybody thought that they were going to beat the Boston Celtics who were 64 and 18 so you know I think that you know those are the things that worked in JB bicker staff’s favor what didn’t work in his favor was the fact that they probably you know a lot of people were expecting them to make much easier work of the Orlando Magic uh in the first round and not have to win that Series in seven games and come back from 18 down in game seven at home to to make that happen against a young inexperienced playoff team you know the Cavs didn’t play in that first round like the team that had been there before so I think that that was part of the reason and that’s why they’re casting such a wide net is because they want to make sure that they have the right guy who they feel very comfortable you know when you make that higher you want to be able to say Yep this is our guy you don’t want to be able to say well I sure wish we would have interviewed three or four more you know this is the offseason you have the time to do that this is your entire offseason other than you know you’ve got your scouting Department handling the draft and reporting to to Kobe Alman on that but you know and the Donovan Mitchell thing’s going to be up to Donovan Mitchell so the whole off season right now for for Kobe Alman is pretty much we got to find the right guy to get us to the next level when it comes to yeah we made it to the Eastern Conference semifinals this past season how do we get a guy you know who’s the guy who’s going to take us to Eastern Conference Finals or maybe Beyond and and that’s why you know you’re conducting such an exhaustive search uh just because you know if if you’re Kobe Alton this is probably your most most important higher yeah I how important is this off season that that’s the The Logical question you you got Mitchell there might be a major tweak or shift in the roster and you got to find the head coach I mean you got to get pretty much all of those right yeah and that’s uh you know it’s a very it’s funny because nationally we not hearing much about the Cavs off season but uh locally I think people are understanding that yeah this is this is pretty huge because you’ve got three big things uh working right now number one obviously he’s a Donovan Mitchell thing I I think that’s even bigger than the coaching hire because you can hire a great coach if Donovan Mitchell leaves well then you’re starting from scratch again you know so I think number one’s Donovan Mitchell number two obviously the coach presuming that Donovan Mitchell does resign as everybody is optimistic and confident that he will do uh or or sign that extension then you know you got to find a coach who’s going to bring out the best Mitchell you don’t have to worry about but going to bring out the best in Moy Allen and the the guys around them uh you know the Caris levers and Isaac okoro and and you know some of those other guys George Yang that that you want to contribute even more next season so that’s the number two thing the number three thing is obviously you know Isaac okoro is a restricted free agent I would say that all these things are tied Isaac okoro is a restrict red free agent Evan Moy can can sign a longer deal and then of course you may have to deal with a Darius Garland trade which all of a sudden after you make a coaching hire and sign Donovan Mitchell this becomes your number one priority could potentially be trading Darius Garland so uh yeah it could be it could be as crazy an offseason as you think now the other thing I’ve heard and and you know one thing we have to remember when it comes to trade uh Dave is you have until February to to make one of those so I don’t know that they’ll be real desperate to make a trade uh before the season unless it does involve Darius Garland because you don’t want to go into the season with a guy who who doesn’t want to be there um so we’ve heard the names um of the U of the the coaching candidates does ties to Donovan Mitchell is that important is is Donovan Mitchell is the coach being a Donovan Mitchell guy important and the other thing is are there any names that kind of intrigue you that you think check a lot of the boxes yeah you know I mean first of all to answer your first question with Donovan Mitchell yeah I mean you don’t want to hire somebody he doesn’t like you know I think that that’s the big thing uh you want to hire somebody that that you know he believes in and has a pretty good sense and and I’ll say this about Donovan Mitchell when the Utah Jazz gutted that roster and Quinn Snyder who is Donovan Mitchell’s favorite and in fact if Quinn Snider were available now the coach of the Hawks but if he were available he’d already be the cf’s coach that’s how much Donovan Mitchell likes him but you know unfortunately uh for for that situation Quinn Snider is not going anywhere with the Hawks so I think that there is a significance in that you know Donovan Mitchell will stay when when the Jazz gutted that team uh and they hired will hardy Donovan Mitchell came out and said look I’m I’m here I’m not going anywhere I’m under contract here and I’m going to play play as hard as I always do so I think that the Cavs have that working in their favor you know will hardy who was the Jazz coach got hired as a Jazz coach to replace Quinn Snyder was an unknown and Donovan Mitchell was saying yeah I’m here this is my team so then the Jazz of course trade him to Cleveland but I think that works in the Cavs favor when when hiring a coach they know Donovan Mitchell’s personality they know he’s not super picky uh and I think it’s just a matter of you know if Donovan Mitchell doesn’t want to play for this guy we’re not going to interview that’s what it comes down to but everybody else I think that he would be open to playing for at least the names we see on the list and um I think that they’re gonna factor that in any of those guys Intrigue you the the list that we went through yeah I mean the Front Runners Kenny Atkinson and James brego if those are the names we’re hearing as the Front Runners I I think that those guys are intriguing simply because Kenny Atkinson obviously had coaching experience with the Nets I thought he did a decent job and kind of a losing situation I know Jared Allen and Carris Levert played for him in Brooklyn and really like him you know and I posted that on my Facebook P page uh Carris Levert and Jared Allen really like Penny Atkinson and all the comments to a t pretty much read yeah we don’t care who does Donovan Mitchell like so I think that that’s something but I think you know Kenny Atkinson having been under Steve Kerr for a few years um that that works in his favor too that’s I I find him to be an intriguing guy uh just because he’s been around the NBA for so long James bgo to me uh was an excellent coach in Charlotte the team won 10 more games uh in each of his final three seasons so I think they went from 23 to 33 to 43 in his final three seasons so you know obviously and now he’s coaching under Willie Green with David Griffin’s New Orleans Pelicans so um I think both of those guys have a lot of experience a lot of knowhow bgo comes from the San Antonio Spurs coaching Tre so you know I I don’t think you could go wrong with either one of those guys but um you know I think they’re just the early Front Runners I don’t think that they’re like clear-cut favorites I think we’re going to see a lot more names mentioned a lot more names factored in and uh I’ll say this I think that the Cavs really want to have a coach in place before the draft which is June 26th and I’ve posted this on Hoops wire multiple times they really really want a coach in place before that whole Donovan extension thing happens uh presumably in early July siko from hoops.com and I going to take one more time out other side of the break uh we’ll talk a little bit more about the uh Cavs roster moving forward sports for CLA we’ll be right back stay with us come back to go forward back to learning new things back to pursuing Your Dreams try C has flexible learning options to fit your life and every year more than 1,000 local companies provide trse students with real world learning the right education can boost your lifetime earning Power by hundreds of thousands of dollars start now with a college education you can afford try C where Futures [Music] [Applause] [Music] begin we continue talking Cavs on Sports for CLA with Sam moiko from hoops.com all right Sam we’re going to make assumptions and and you know what you say when you assume uh so sometimes we could be wrong but assuming there will be changes to the Cavs roster some names that we’ve heard in trade uh as trade candidates for the Cavs Brandon Ingram from New Orleans um does he make sense do you think he fits with what they would want yeah I mean he certainly would he’s uh if he can stay on the floor which has been a question most of his career a lot of injuries but you know borderline Allstar really the the Pelican second best player when he’s healthy after Zion Williamson um which says a lot because CJ mccollum’s on that team too and plays incredibly well for them so I I think he would you know that would be somebody that that would be you know if Darius Garland were to be moved that would be who the Cavs would you know one of the players they would certainly Target and I’ve heard New Orleans would certainly have interest in D I Garland and guess what the salaries match so it would be a very easy trade to make um but you know Ingram can he he’s a small forward he’s unselfish uh great athlete and uh great attitude so he gets along well with his teammates which I know is very important to the Cavs because their you know their culture is is a big part of everything they’re trying to do so um I I would think that yeah Brandon Ingram certainly there’s reasons that his name has been linked to the Cavs repeatedly uh especially if Darius garland does in fact request a trade after presuming Donovan Mitchell signs that extension another one that that we’ve heard um is Kellin Johnson from the Spurs is that another guy that little bit younger and you know there there have been flashes with him yeah he’s you know flies under the radar because the Spurs have been so bad and everything with San Antonio has been Victor Wana but no Kellin Johnson a very nice player um you know shooting guard small forward type uh really good athlete can get to the basket scores a lot of his points by you know off the break and and that kind of stuff so yeah real nice player very very underrated in my opinion um and I know San Antonio would be one of the teams that would have an interest in Garland to pair him with W bana and old friend chedy Osman assuming he resigns there but uh you know Garland is Garland is is somebody that you would float for talks like that and you could do a lot worse than than Kellin Johnson or especially Brandon ingr so assuming and again we’re we’re playing hypothetical and and there’s a danger in that but we’re going to do it anyway we we’re on TV we can do whatever we want um assuming that it is Darius Garland what type is it strictly like a Darius Garland for Brandon Ingram or would there be more Darius Garland for Kellin Johnson would there be more yeah I think that Garland and Ingram would probably be a straightup type deal be just one-on-one now maybe you would throw in some draft capital or something like that that would be fairly meaningless but you know Garland for if you just want to do Garland for Ingram and nothing else you could do that because the salaries match you know Kell Johnson I think that Cavs would want a little bit more back than just Kellin Johnson for Garland it wouldn’t be a lot um but it would be probably something else you know I’ve heard talk of Garland the Wizards really like him you know I don’t know if Rich Paul would allow that to happen but there there’s a possibility there you know with like Trey Jones who’s their point guard and at Cory kissper uh who’s an outside shooting small forward that deal works you know so I think that there are a number of possibilities and if Garland is traded I think that yeah maybe come out of nowhere some some team may come out of nowhere it may end up being a three- team deal but if you’re talking just Ingram and Johnson those would be very easy trades to make almost straight up um all right so I we we’ve both said we don’t necessarily Know How likely it is Jared Allen gets traded what would an what would Allen bring back if if they trade him yeah Allen would be a bigger deal because again you’re giving up one of your pieces that’s uh a center that’s uh really one of the top Defenders uh in the league in terms of Defending at the rim and he even does a nice job when he gets switched out on the guard so uh you know it’s hard to tell I don’t know that the Cavs would want to trade Jared Allen for a small forward uh and Brandon Ingram as you know Ingram’s a superior player but at least offensively um I just think that you’re you know all of a sudden then now you have another hole to fill if you’re the Cavs and and you should make that trade you know now now who’s going to be your second primary uh interior Defender next EV Moy you got to go out and fill that hole so I think that the Cavs would want somebody back who’s you know probably a u a a a big man and I just don’t know where you’d go with that I know we’ve heard rumors of Allen being traded I would be shocked if the Cavs actually made that move because you’re not going to probably get back equal return as well as such an unselfish guy who fits so well so let’s take now we’ll take it to the extreme assuming that it’s uh Donovan Mitchell who goes what kind of trade does that you know and again it would be Donovan Mitchell kind of facilitating this if the Cavs are forced their hands forced and you have to trade Donovan Mitchell what do you try to get back yeah you hate to even think that but it could just you know it’s a real possibility I wouldn’t say a real possibility but the possibility exists that you would have to deal him if he doesn’t sign that contract extension you know look you’re going to go straight probably to the Miami Heat we’ve heard rumors that maybe that’s a team he would be interested in if he leaves the Cavs and you could get back quite a hall you know that you would think you could get presumably like a Tyler hero uh maybe a Caleb Martin and you know you’re going to want some Dynamic type players back in exchange for Mitchell you’d probably get a lot of picks in that deal you’d have to get some of your picks back because you gave up so many to Utah uh to get Mitchell to Cleveland so you know I think that that would be a huge uh thing to look at would be Miami uh Brooklyn potentially you know where Mitchell is from with you could I don’t think the Nets would want to move Mike H Bridges but they could you know I mean if that’s that’s what the Cavs are are are demanding and here’s the thing if Mitchell doesn’t sign that extension and makes it clear that he wants traded the Cavs are going to get a really good offer because you know even though other teams know they have to trade Mitchell he could go anywhere you know so I think that that’s that’s the thing that the Cavs would have working in their favor is we can ask for the Sun the moon and the stars and presumably get that in return because um there’d be so many you know so many teams opposing teams trying to outbid each other and I just think the Cavs don’t want to go down that road but if they do if they have to uh I I think that they’ll be set up for a little while if they do they prefer Mitchell and not have to explore all that but you know I’m sure that they’re keeping their options open until he signs that uh extension yeah I’m with you the the the Mitchell uh trading Donovan Mitchell kind of The Last Resort um if they can’t get him um to agree to stay here long term uh Sam M hoops.com as always great stuff appreciate the time and the Insight thanks very much Sam all right Dave thanks so much for having me we’ll chat with you soon sounds good Sam Amo hoops.com make sure check him out great coverage not only of the caves but the entire NBA that’s going to do it for this edition of sports for C we’ll see you back here tomorrow at 4:00 have a great night everybody see you tomorrow at 4 on Sports for seale [Music]