LIVE 2024 Golf WEDGES TESTING + Fitting Q&A

This live stream features in-depth testing of the most popular 2024 golf wedges, such as the Titleist Vokey SM10 wedges, PING s159 wedges, and more.

2nd Swing’s Drew Mahowald is joined by master club fitter Tyler Fitzel to test and review the most popular 2024 golf wedges with the help of Trackman technology.

Shop 2024 2nd Swing Fitters Choice wedges here: https://www.2ndswing.com/golf-clubs/wedges

Schedule an award-winning 2nd Swing Tour Van fitting: https://fitting.2ndswing.info/schedule-now/

FOLLOW 2ND SWING GOLF ON SOCIAL MEDIA:

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/2ndSwingGolf

Twitter: https://twitter.com/2ndSwingGolf

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/2ndswinggolf/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@2ndswinggolf

e e hey golfers and welcome back to the second swing YouTube channel today we’re back for another live stream uh reminder on on those we have live streams we’re planning every Tuesday at noon Central time so that is of course right now uh today we’ve got Mr Tyler fitzell back with us as well and we’re going to talk about wedges today you know that was kind of Tyler’s choosing he wanted to talk about wedges today so we’re dialing in wedges across the board we’re going to do some testing and then we’ll also talk about all those other things bounce grind uh maybe even go into Loft a little bit why that matters in your bag as well gapping things like that so uh it’s going to be a good one today Tyler um we already have a couple great questions by the way in the chat that we’ll get to but what what even prompted the whole this kind of idea to do wedges today well first of all um I hear from some customers time to time like do you guys do wedge fittings oh yeah we do absolutely well how do you do that yeah well it’s kind of this question like well the same way we do putter fittings or iron fittings or any of these other clubs and the question kind of came up as like well you we need really need to do wedge fittings outside and the reality is like there’s only one possible wedge fitting outside that’s going to com be so comprehensive right and that’s if you have every type of grass you’re going to encounter or type of sand and bunker situation and um moisture content like we’re not in an area and we’re in Minnesota but we’re we’re not in an area where we’re just automatically uh we can go out to the the desert yeah right we can’t really you know we we can’t go to some of those places and so and our store in the desert can’t come up here and corre the same thing corre yeah and I look at it this way uh really wedge wedges are very unique and special there’s a couple of things that that uh take for instance a wedge needs to you need to be able to to use it from 5 feet to maybe 50 yards and it’s the same Club so I talk about this as technology and technique right there’s a lot that really gets packed into it so there’s again we I would look at the wedge and the technology that the companies are producing as as some of the most Cutting Edge even as we talk about like drivers we talk about shafts we talk about all these different options there are wedges are usually the the largest number of individual skews within our system right you know we talk about all the Lofts they have the grinds they have like all of the different options so that’s one of the reasons that kind of prompted that is to kind of give us a a better comprehensive idea about how important a wedge fitting cany yeah for the uh the customer as well as some of the maybe myths or misconceptions to it and um I look at wedges as saying it’s a lot easier to make like a five into a four with your short game a wedge and a putter yeah um and so if that’s that’s the case it’s really about how are we going to make uh the scores go down how are we going to improve it it it’s going to be this is a huge part of the game that um we have a lot of our shots between a putter a wedge and a driver or some sort of t- shot most of our shots are with the wedge in a putter yeah yeah right that’s where we I mean you’re probably talking about 50 at Le over 50% as you mentioned your shots are going to be within 50 yards or 100 yards for sure uh so we want to get a couple of questions in the chat already um we had one about the different ping grinds so we can we can kind of start there and we’ll do some testing here too right um of the various uh wedges we have I four or five models at 56 degrees with 10 degrees bounce we’ll hit shots and kind of look at data there and then we’ve also got the Ping s159 in various bounces so let’s kind of go into that question whale shark asked that asking about you know sh HT you know the grinds and specifically in bunkers why they’re different so there’s two real um very important pieces to every wedge the first is the leading edge of this wedge how this starts to interact with the turf is how the bottom starts to interact with the turf as well so the Leading Edge is very important whether that’s a steeper attack angle whether it is shallower and then we find the bottom and the bottom is where the grind is we talk about well what is the difference between some of these grinds and how is it used and those are separate conversations that we’ll take to this let’s do this as a test because you you haven’t gone through this part with me before no I’ve got the Ping I’ve got 56 degree they’re all in standard length and lie I’m not going to tell you what bounce I’m giving you so there’s uh four different options here I’m just going to give you this one so regardless of what it is I want you to hit about four or five shots with it okay so I’m not I’m not looking at the bottom of the club no yeah so all I’m going to put as a tag is just uh bounce testing for the uh the Ping i59 okay um or is it no s159 sorry uh hit about three or four shots doesn’t matter what you do with it let’s just see what happens and then we’ll do that with a couple of the other ones here too all right sprayed that a little bit it’s all right so one of the intangibles that you know we’re going to gather some data here one of the intangibles that you’re going to have to help me with is feel yeah right right and that’s one of the things that makes wedges unique is how they do feel see that feels like a lot of spin there um I mean we’re over 10,000 on a 56 degree wedge I don’t know it’s not a full swing but yeah a couple more so that one definitely I caught that better and it launched higher but I’m going try to hit these around 100 yards just for yeah the sake of trying to keep that part consistent little uh practice for the next time yeah I do have a 56 Dee in my bag I should probably know how to hit that 100 yard shot okay for time sake let’s go to another one okay again I’m just going to hand this to you yep I’ll give I know what it is okay but I just want you to hit some shots hit two or three shots interesting see I thought that one again this is on a mat mhm yeah I thought that one sat pretty low to the ground but I also feel like this one I can get down there too that that’s exactly why I’m doing this where it’s a blind test where it’s blind yeah cuz I don’t know which grind you told you what it is you would just adapt okay might be a little too far maybe yeah I caught that one pretty good yeah solid oh that was thin it’s okay let’s leave that where it is for the moment I’m going to give you another one all right now with ping this is one you may not know the bounce on it oh I okay but this is the the io y or the I2 design this looks very different yeah yeah so there’s a different look to it but unless you’ve memorized bounce numbers I haven’t B bounce numbers I don’t know top of my head yeah go ahead and hit this it’s definitely a different look oh that one was little fat I feel like this is launching way higher well maybe maybe it’s just the way I’m swinging or something yeah we can certainly look at the the launch angles that won’t be an issue like we’re recording all the data here too so right I don’t know maybe it I guess my attack angle is pretty zero on that one okay now let’s hit the other one the last one whatever this is whatever this is yes well for you I know what it is because I’m looking at it but right all right so these are all the Ping grindes get some more questions in the chat we love that that was a little fin all right let me get one more here oh that’s probably is that three with without one too yeah okay yep so talk about a couple of things first without knowing what I was giving you in terms of the bounce yeah was there something that stood out about any of those um not necessarily I thought the uh well certainly the look of the e i I mean for sure but I can’t really put my finger on anything in particular I thought that one launched a little higher I think it was was the the second one the iso yeah the iso yeah yeah I saw I thought launched higher just on a couple of the swings but again that wasn’t you know a super big sample so to speak but so one of the conversation pieces is when we start talking about why would we do Edge fittings inside as an example let’s talk about conditions it’s not hot and humid although it might be outside it’s not raining um we’re talking about an even and consistent playing surface so that what we are getting is not um little heavy on one and a little too much dirt or not heavy enough on another and and we’re not getting down underneath it when we start talking about the bounce angle we want to know how the the club is reacting in to the the the surface so having a consistent surface indoors is very important to what you start to feel on average yeah now the first one I gave you was uh a 12 degree bounce okay and the 12 degree bounce is close to what you have you told me that you have uh 56 degree and a 10 bounce yes so we’ll get to the 10 bounces I grabbed kind of a model of all these sorts of uh 10° bounce options in these other companies but I’m looking at this to say if there’s something that stands out all of a sudden one maybe had more bounds so talk about the E where it said it launched higher technically it did as you got in here you see 32 and 33 those are your highest launch numbers now why could just be the way that this bounce works there’s a little bit of a bullet Groove in the bottom of this so there’s actually kind of a wave and that allows you to manipulate how much bounce depending on the angle that the club is moving through right so remember how we talked a little bit about the Leading Edge another thing with the Leading Edge is this this specific model for Ping has a very rounded uh uh Leading Edge and it’s also I don’t want to say onset but it’s ve it’s very even up to like no offset whatsoever and a half groove or a little like a 3/4 groove on the bottom that allows you to maybe pick a little bit better on that now it’s also a very unique shape this goes back back to one of the original designs that they had which has been one of the best bunker wedges ever and that’s because it actually changes its bounce as you move out and up so how this gets in whether I’m going to go in a little bit more Square I’m going to open that up a little bit that’s going to change the turf interaction and can increase or decrease that bounce angle dramatically yeah so why do we need bounce in general we need bounce so that we the this Leading Edge doesn’t keep going down into yeah and that’s one of the reasons where we talk about personally I like to talk about wet sand and dry sand which will actually lead to the other question we had about pings in general um if I have a very firm surface and I need a little bit less bounce so that I get underneath the ball versus if all of a sudden same golf course I’m in a in a bunker that’s a little bit more fluffy has a little bit more sand I can open this up and create more bounds so we try to be multi-dimensional so that it’s not just one it’s not just a hammer and a nail I start having different tools for different jobs I’m going one of the other questions was about the finish and specifically this is something with ping they they talk a lot about their Hydro pearl finish it’s a coating and there’s sec I think I’m pretty sure it’s the second generation of the 2.0 the question was the difference between their kind of their their Chrome version or their satin versus the midnight there is no difference in the Finish it’s just the color so performance-wise pings tend to shed water off yeah cuz both both fin are designed to do that yes so and in in a even a blade of grass is more water than it is anything else so that even in a desert on a blade of grass you can have water yeah it may not seem like it because we’re in a desert so that that dirt in that Grime is very important to get that away from the the groove edges sure every single company is utilizing uh a system of some sort with their Coatings and their finishings to get crisp EG edes On the Groove and that’s going to create more spin which can create more consistency or stopping power with that y yeah so yeah I mean just like it’s it’s weird cuz this was just full shots right and obviously we you know with wedges in here we always have the 3day play guarantee as well so this is you talked about being on one surface here indoors we can that’s it’s almost in a way optimal that way to okay now we know on the plain surf right on a a basic surface flat lie Fairway type of grass this is what is going to work for you but then of course you go on the course you play in rough you play in sand you might have a bare dirt lie you might be play different courses have different uh Turf right so yeah to experience all that then you have 30 days to do that play a couple different courses that you play often and then you can see if maybe there’s one thing you want to change with your setup whatever that’s why you can come back in and figure that stuff out but and where you play so if you consistently play in a region like we are um let’s call it let’s just say we’re in Minnesota so for that for the moment versus we have stores in Dallas and Scottsdale we have a couple out east in Wilmington and um um Columbia Maryland too um if you start looking at it in terms of our conditions here very different than Arizona if I’m playing most of my golf here and I take a trip or I go down there yeah I might have a wedge for more firm Turf with less bounce that I could get underneath it but in general if I go down and I have a handful of rounds I’m just going to play with what I have right and necessarily you should expect most people to play with what they have so that’s why you want that versatility you want to be able to use your wedges for all kinds of different shots and that’s why we also promote you know I know we’re kind of getting into you know we’re doing less testing and more sort of explaining but it’s more of you know you want different bounces different grinds in your bag versus the same thing throughout because you get more options let’s take a quick peek at this um one of the things we have with the companies on the market as an example is uh we have wedge fitting tools that that the the customers can they can get an idea about what’s going on and then we can start to re reaffirm those things um whether it’s uh titlist as an example or ping they have uh really nice resources for that yeah so we’ve got the this is the Titleist one the wedge selector yeah so let’s do this in this regard um I’m just going to say that I’m going to put it at a 15 because the difference between a zero and a 15 in this isn’t going to make a huge determination in the wedge that I’m going to pick cuz the answers to the other questions are really more about that okay but what I look at here is is we’d like to know what your pitching wedge is now I’ll just use me for an example I know I’m at 46 um I actually play a 62 so that helps to set some of the conversations or the piece pieces to the puzzle I’m a sweeper I don’t have a lot I like to kind of pick through it although I can do the others not a problem um you know with the pitching wedge it’s full I might use it around the the green the same thing here I do everything with everything now that’s that’s that’s rare it is but it’s also a very important Conversation Piece if you’re a I’m just around the green with one or the other or I’m just in the bunker with the other that is okay that’s what we want to start to develop because one of the questions is like well what’s a good bounce for this sand you know do I want this number this number it really depends on how you’re also going to use it remember five y 5et to 50 yards same Club so technology and technique are very important in this process yeah um now typically I’d say I’m very neutral to even right now soft right now with the rain we’ve gotten here that’s going to make that’s going to make some of the other that’s going to make the decisions to add more bounce so that I don’t dig in and stick in right and so that is one of the important pieces so let’s leave it at soft where we are the type of bunkers I would call them more neutral where I am because I can go to a b i the courses I play or where I belong as a that also has new sand so it could be slightly soft you might be getting mix it’s very consistent but let’s just say neutral now I have a high confidence out of Bunker are and so the first thing it’s going to do is it’s going to recommend a a gapping to this and so 46° that is my pitching wedge 50 I do have a 50 56 I do have a 56 and 62 those are also the bounce these are actually the numbers I play so the lofs and the bounces and the grinds are all what you play so that’s and I know so you guys this is just an example but this is also a tool that you guys will use in every fitting yes you know I mean I could be you know John Doe in here for a fitting I could be a 20 handicap I could be a four handicap yes and but you answer you know I would answer as a as the golfer answer all those questions you kind of input them in there and then it sort of spits out at least a starting point for you correct in the fitting and then from there you might test these out and then as we talked about 3-day play guarantee you go play them for 30 days yeah one of the things I think is interesting is if we go if if I were to go back and you were to kind of call let let’s say I’m I’m the the 15 handicapper and I’m kind of in the middle on everything and my confidence is kind of in the middle and my my game’s kind of in the middle on that these numbers are going to change and what most most of the time we do is we kind of bring you into the middle number it’s not the really low bounce it’s not the really high bounce we bring you into the middle and that’s because we want to give you a little bit on either side we aren’t really low bounce we aren’t really high bounce yeah so sometimes when people answer these questions they’re like well everything just comes up in the middle a 10 degree bounce and a 10 degree bounce and a 10 degree bounce but that’s okay now the uh same thing happens with ping and they have finding the grind and again they’re going to go through and they’re going to kind of give us the same sort of um questions one of the things they are going to start asking about more specifically is things like what’s your your carry distance to this um which is yeah the questions are they’re a little different but it’s the same process I mean you input your information here and and then it spits out you know kind of the recommendations based on their you know s159 and grinds it’s nice I know it’s it’s sort of a way to you talked about like the ideal uh you know optimal fitting uh conditions so sort of a way to give a head start on us indoors when we have those limitations uh let’s go back to this real quick okay so technique right I said technology technique it’s okay if you’re square face but once in a while you might be opening it it’s okay if you’re you’re open face all the time but once in a why you square it up I would say is this tendency for you yeah and on average preferred pitch shot technique on average I tend to square the face up but I’m I’m okay you know playing it from any which direction I also have the ball per my pre preference is a little bit further back so I can kind of drive into it and get spin they also they also say is hey why does this matter they do have some explanations to it so you can get a better understanding of this um so for me the most lofted wedge in its priority is the versatility that I can get yeah I’m the same way okay but again you might look at this and say well maybe it’s I want this club for more bunker plate there’s a lot of people that only use their High lofted wedge for whether it’s really thick Ruff or like flop shots or bunker shots they’re not the type I’m the one I use my 60° for everything MH but yeah so this is then this is Ping’s version of spitting out that recommendation yep so one of the things that it comes down to here is kind of looking at this based on these questions um you can if you know go through some of these other these other um uh uh educational pieces about impact location about the grind and talking about how one thing works right uh so the the other piece to this is talking a little bit about what it recommends so it’s it’s recommending a 60 a 54 and a 50 and a pitching wedge a little different yeah from the first result on a different company not a problem because now in P in paying these grinds aren’t the same as tidalist or tailor mid or Callaway or Muno their their grind on the bottom might be slightly different based on those numbers right so yep what it’s doing it’s going back to this idea about gapping right how do we look at gapping we’d like to try to have about somewhere between a 4 to six degree gap between our wedges of Loft yep that allows us an opportunity to kind of start making those spaces a little bit more uniform yeah for sure we got a question yeah on here uh there’s a couple of questions on Wedge waiting and what we should do too here is we’ve shown this part this is really cool we should also maybe do some testing of the various Brands as well uh but getting into waiting so there someone asked about the idea I’m going to kind of combine both into one question y someone asked about wedge shafts and making them maybe heavy or lighter in wedges versus irons and then also we got one here most recently thoughts on swing rate progression from the lowest iron through the wedges so kind of uh you know how do you weight IR wedges differently is there a do you use a different weighted shaft in there is it the same as your irons what is the preference that I guess most people do or what’s most best practice or maybe some people are unique and they just use the same thing so if we’re if we have the ability to match our irons I would certainly do that with the same shaft until we get to probably our highest lofted Club yeah that’s what that’s my stuff up and with the highest lofted club we we don’t tend to use it as the full swing it tends to be the much more specific and Specialty so because of that we may want something if you’re an extra stiff shaft in your irons and its heavy you can do that into say a 50 or a 54 or a 56 but as you get into something like a 60 you might want to have a little bit lighter Shaft or something with a little bit more kick to create a little bit more of that spin that touch that control every company uses something a little bit different so be aware um I have uh I have four different shafts right here as an example um for four different companies the first here is a mauno they their stock shaft is a True Temper Dynamic gold S400 tour issued that’s it’s um hand selected that’s the tour issue part of that um it’s also a heavier shaft and that does help in terms of creating some momentum uh the next one I have here is a tailor made it has a one it has a High Rev 115 G shaft that again is a little bit lighter but at that same point is allowing for a little bit more of the spin and the kick I also have a Callaway with a dynamic old spinner shaft which is a little bit lighter it is a tour issued spinner shaft by True Temper that again is hand selected for them yeah in a little bit lighter format that helps to balance what they believe in their stock option and then we come to Titleist and this is the normal question you know what shaft should I use and generally speaking the shaft that’s in here unless you need something special is just fine it’s not quite as heavy or quite as stiff as the ones you’re using in your irons yeah if you want to match just match up down through your irons um into your we edes or most of the time these are appropriately weighted yeah for I mean it’s the difference right I mean it’s a lot different than hitting a four iron with a light regular Flex to extra stiff heavy right it’s there’s not going to be that much variance with these so no and and to that um T titlist has a wedge that the vogi wedge that is played most commonly it’s by a lot of touring professionals it’s also very popular amongst our customers that is a dynamic gold s200 shaft it is still played by more than half of all the players at the PGA tour at that the elite level yeah so the same shaft that we’re getting is the same one that they’re playing because of its consistency but also because it’s going to allow them to create some spin allow them to create control with it it’s it if you get too stiff with something or too heavy with something then the motion that you’re going to make with it changes yeah we got so then this this is a fun set up here this commenter saying he has two of his wedges extended to match all the same length but now the 54 degree is D4 swing weight 58 is D7 yeah uh what do you think about about that setup here and I’m actually we’ll get started here testing maybe with one of these and so I’d like you to hit that one while we’re going and I’ll plug that one in um in talking about swing weight it is very important we’d like to have all of the different um clubs as an example we’d like to have all of our clubs in a a certain waiting category that’s going to uh based on the CL type but it’s also going to be pretty pretty consistent to it um D4 is fine D4 is somewhere around D4 on a swing weight scale is about what most wedges are if they get a little bit lighter that’s okay too if they get a little heavier sometimes that’s more of a full swing issue right if something’s that much more heavier on a full swing but if we’re let’s say for instance we have irons at D2 or D3 even the iron set’s going to get slightly lighter towards the longest irons we want to balance that so yes you can have everything specifically weighed and balanced the companies will do that as well so don’t be afraid to to ask about making that customization the hard part in testing is if I don’t have that absolute specific swing weight and we’re testing it and say we like that we can order it but if we order it and it does come in and it’s like well this maybe isn’t my swing weight mm changes can be made to that it could be uh could be could be lead tape could be taking weight out could be just doing a whole uh different shaft could be a different grip so those are all the things that as a fitter I do look for in every Club someone comes in and says well I need a a jumbo grip and it and it actually is uh made out of rubber and it’s it’s got 12 G 15 more gram of weight that’s going to it’s going to imbalance the club from what it was originally designed as but it can be done and it can work if that’s what we do with the club yeah yeah yeah the uh yeah all those things are just it’s crazy how much a little bit of weight here and there can can change the entire Dynamics this what were your first this was good I love the feel of this this is the Muno t24 56° right I’m trying to hit these shots approximately 100 yards um really soft feel I like that I mean this is you know we talk about the Muno mhm forged the grain flow forging process that’s no joke that always feels really good so now we’ve got so now okay this is the hi toe tailor made mil grind 4 I’ve played a hi toe before I know some people don’t like this kind of look with the grooves all the way up to the high toe here mhm I love it I think it I I like it almost better than this idea you know when they kind of cut them off towards the toe with most brands but right um it’s good I think to add to that too uh Drew one of the things we talk about with preferences and I normally talk about this a lot especially when we talk about golf balls yeah price performance and preferences kind of the three PS yeah um some people don’t like that look great not your preference there’s plenty of others right some people like that look well you’re in luck it’s a preference we have it um and so there are certainties uh there are certain things that companies are going to do and then they’re not going to do yeah you we’re not going to see a high toe version of that from some companies it’s not their thing um and then there’s other companies where they’re more known for it and again not a problem was a slightly towards the toe strike but might work what are your first impressions so I think this is if I were to it’s weird because I feel like this is the tailor made again this I feel like the sound was slightly softer but I feel like the feel was slightly firmer which is really backwards usually mhm maybe I’m being too particular about it but no that’s okay um I do like how consistent it was though I mean I didn’t I feel like those strikes on the face were very different and they’re all the same distance so yeah well and both of them now one of the things I’ve given you is a 56° and all of these clubs are uh 56 with 10 bounce so there’s a 10 bounce whatever grind that is for these companies yeah the first thing I want to do is just say hey these are all 10 degrees of Bounce and they’re all 56° a very different look here obviously not the high toe shape no this is a Callaway this is the Jaws raw they do have a high toe that was a big pull hopefully we’re still puttting on that one that one’s better well it is the week of the US Open and you know shout out to all those guys playing it does look like in um first first reports putting is going to be a thing yes at the US Open this week it’s uh we’ve already seen some people kind of dropping a ball on one side of the green and having it roll off right you know uh so you always get well you get those every year right there’re always there’s the features on TV where they’re showing why this is more difficult than last year last year’s tournament or you always get that that was thin might work though so this one even with okay that was thin that’s different but this one this is the Callaway uh Jaws raw I think this one definitely felt firmer than than the rest I think interesting yeah which I is surprising cuz the the whole raw um element I thought it was a little bit firmer but again I’m that’s just my my opinion so let’s talk a little bit about one of the Technologies uh while you’re hitting I’m going to give you the uh vogi uh yeah sm10 there this isi sm10 here hit a few one of the Technologies we’ve seen out of a lot of companies is they’ve gone to a raw face and the idea with that is to provide a little bit more friction or grit when that raw face or the steel of that kind of rusts so that friction is one thing you’ll see a lot of el like elite players that want very specific grinding on their Club are going to use a raw head so that it doesn’t have a coating on it well the reason is more cosmetic than anything they’re going to use the entire head raw so that they can actually grind yeah in specific places and not wear off the coating that’s on it um it’s just aesthetic it it doesn’t doesn’t affect performance of the face of the club um there’s also maybe without the coding a different sound maybe a different feel yeah and maybe that’s what I was experiencing just trying to yeah kind of put it into words if you will but I kind of went after that one um some most notably uh every company has every company has a raw face or head so that you can always get in any company you can get a raw face for the contact maybe a little bit more spin um that’s also a preference we talk about a little bit about preference with the look and feel of One Versus another how how is this so I like this a lot again I mean this is I’m a little biased I have sm10 in the bag right now but um I I also will say this is the new nickel right this is the the new nickel from them which looks really good I have a couple of um um in my bag with this too so now what I’m seeing again we have well I guess we did hit all of them didn’t we yeah so the ones we’re going to test here I mean there clearly there’s kind of one oval that sticks out to me and that’s that tailor made just how consistent that is yeah um now granted there’s you know I like on this one in particular that hit that one that kind of went almost 110 I just swung a little bit harder right but um I like the feel this a lot this is probably the best cuz I don’t like it to be super soft mhm I kind of want a little bit of Fe back with mine um so I think mine I think the sm10 is kind of right in that that wheelhouse there if I were to yeah something else to be said about is like in terms of dispersion I know maybe there’s a long and a short as Fitters we’re trying to get East and West with something if we can rather than long and short that north and south or longer versus shorter is a little tougher to uh to predict on yeah so again this is a wedge um I do find customers will ask say I need something for 100 yards and I you know to think about this for a quick second I mentioned this multiple times 5T 50 yards same Club 100 yards can be a club but so can two or three or four other clubs so it kind of comes into that technology and technique situation because there’s some people that do the the clock technique you have you know it might it might be a uh you know 9:00 swing with your pitching wedge it might be a 10:30 swing with your 54 degree wedge and it might be a full sing with your 60 right I mean you can have multiple shots for 100 yards um that’s again that’s that aspect of it um this question this a good one here too from Robert Allen on the YouTube asking about um more forgiving wedges so like an example be the Cleveland cbx yeah which I think we got one over here um I could bring up yeah do that which it’s only a 50° so I won’t probably test it but I can still at least show we got it here C the cbx2 U but he’s asking um do you get any difference in ball speed distance um with the bigger head or less spin or is it is that Pur is that all pretty similar and it’s just a little bit more forgiving is it more of a look thing for players I think there’s a couple of different things um the first is we we Define forgiveness remember four things happen to a ball with any club including a putter but especially a wedge too we have ball speed yep that can vary depending on the club speed and the hit location we have launch angle we have spin rate we have direct direction we look at this as the same idea between a blade versus a super game impr proven iron yeah when you have a cavity and you start to make that perimeter waiting larger around the outside so it’s more hollowed on the inside it’s a little bit larger you can thin the face so you can see better ball speed that does allow for a little bit more Moi effect so you can see maybe a little bit more in the direction you get some more height out of it you get some more spin out of it all those things can benefit someone the preference comes back to it does the look suit your style yeah is there is there uh which I for these I give Cleveland credit for these cbxs because I’m looking down I got the sm10 and I got a cbx I mean they look it doesn’t you could never tell this is a quote unquote game improvement wedge or it has a big thicker cavity with extra tungsten I mean you could never tell correct so they do a great job of hiding that part of and there are plenty of others out there on the market you know as we get into 2024 here um we s talk about mauno they have a couple of different models so it’s not just t24 they they also have a more cavity back style um we talk about uh Callaway they also have one that has a a more cavity back style so uh there are options there are companies that do have these options the other thing the other question that kind of sneaks in once in a while is do I just use the wedges that are belonging to the set yeah another good one and that can be a question that’s just really you and your fitter are kind of decided upon I look at it this way if you’re going to use a wedge in your iron set for chipping around the green probably get a wedge I’d probably get a wedge wedge yeah if you’re going to use something like a pitching wedge in a gap wedge that’s much more about a distance specifically and that you’re looking at more Precision then I would probably stick to uh distance-wise the irons yeah so it it kind of is it there’s a little bit of both uh I don’t think there’s a right or wrong answer I just think there’s you and you work on it and you go play it and you try it and it’s a good thing that these Brands you know these companies with their iron sets are offering pitching wedge gap wedge Sand Wedge with their set because you’re I I am with you I’m like most players where I use my pitching wedge is only a full swing club my sand I mean even my 52 degree is pretty much only a full swing Club I’ll use 56 and 60 around the green but you know I there’s a lot of players that do that and you can have just having that continuity with your full iron set is is a big help also one of the things that um I look back at as we talk about technology for a quick bit back in 2010 the groove rule changed and the change was to limit the size and the depth of a Groove so that it wouldn’t allow stuff inside and the idea is that if I have a larger box to put stuff in the uh the edge of the groove the U the the groove angle as well as the sharpness of those creates more spin yeah we now today with the current wedges have more spin than back in 2010 the wedges that were at that time legal which now we deem illegal yeah companies were pushed and enforced by the rulle to create a product that spins that produces performance better and they’re at that so coming from the manufacturers themselves they have a product that is basically as good as they have ever created totally so we’re talking about all these products it’s not just the manufacturer it’s all of them it’s the game improvement versus just a you know call it more a standard wedge so everything’s better in that regard um I know a lot of people will come in and they’ll say well I’m going to keep my sand wedge from 2000 I’m going to keep my 1990 Sand Wedge because it’s it’s my wedge and I’m that’s my thing talk real quick about most professionals on the elite level they go through something to the effect of about three if not four or five sets of wedges starting with the wedge they you typically use the most um there is uh a change when when at the the level uh professionals will maybe change change a wedge specifically two two tournaments kind of get that and they’re Majors The Masters they may add more Loft because of the slopes the greens and the speeds sometimes they may take a little bit of Loft off as an example like at a British Open or maybe even a US Open because they may not uh they may not be able to use as much loft right so those are the equipment changes for the elite level players don’t happen often right no no and so if you have if they if they replace a wedge they probably the same thing and they just have it frusty made because they wor it out or something like that so if you have had something and you want to try something different go for it if you’ve had success and it is working for you stay with it yeah no there’s no reason to change um is there any anything you wanted to look at numbers wise on kind of the the brand versus brand testing here I’m I’m kind of curious in some average just averages on the spin rate sure the I I think that would be a good thing to kind of find here would be like is there a wedge that in this particular test spun more spun uh less you know because well let’s do this as we look at it in terms of what we see now um first and foremost we have ball speed again ball speed launch spin in Direction so about average with the Muna was 86.8 86.9 88 and 87 yeah so with those did we see a difference in ball speed yes about every one M hour is two call it two and a half yards it’s what it can be so there may be a difference in that but not a lot you can see average carry distance is 102 almost 103 103 about 105 and 104 we’re talking about one or two yards yeah so that’s that’s good we’re not seeing a lot of difference there um same thing in the total distance you’ve got a lot of spin none of these necessarily spun a a lot more yeah maybe the Callaway raw yeah raw uh Jaws raw maybe but could it have been on average because your your plus minus your had I think I had one where I maybe caught it thin and it got you know over 10,000 yeah yeah exactly um so it’s it’s all kind of you know by the looks of it here what we have it’s it’s pretty comparable across the board you’re not going to see a stark difference at least in this um one one thing maybe we can do in a future live or something is do some water like get a container and spray with water the faces and the and the ball and see if anything changes there with because there is I know you know every company kind of is is making that claim right that they don’t lose any spin when the faceall are both as wet you’re going to lose spin so yeah you know anytime you you put something in between the groom uh there’s some sort of a Fric the friction will go down yeah the question is can we keep it as high as possible right and um there are claims by certain companies that have more versus less I think overall they’re all very very good yeah so not going to I’m not going to knock that they invest a ton into the they the R&D for that it’s you know I mean if anybody watching this goes out and likes to play golf yeah you know first thing in the morning do sweeping right I mean that’s what they call it you’re going to get that moisture on the ball in the club and so maintaining their performance knowing what you’re going to expect at 6:30 a.m. on the first Fairway is just as important as you know the 18th Fairway when you’re finishing up your round well you think about like this too um let’s say for instance you’re out Dew sweeping you’re out in the morning there’s maybe a little bit of dew it’s still a little um humid out the the ball when it lands is going to slide on that water on that green anyway so the same thing’s going to happen if you have water on that face is there’s going to be a little bit of slide so as the quicker the water gets away from that surface which is what what they’re trying to do with this the better off you’re going to be right okay yeah um no another thing I was looking at as an example is is talking a little about here about attack angle yeah so when I have like um down three down three down four maybe down two and this looks like it may have only captured one in terms of that yeah not really worried about it like attack angle can help because that’s where we start talking a little bit about the bounce yeah so there’s there’s a few basic things that happen with every wedge every club for that matter we can change its Loft by doing this we can change its lie angle by doing this and we can do a a little bit of both by rotation so as this is rotating it’s Lo lower lofting as this digs into the ground it can actually push the LI angle a little bit up same thing where it comes in a little flat yeah so those are things that are in motion and happening regardless of whether we want that to happen or not that’s what makes the bounce on the bottom unique the grind is not the the bounce number is not a particular place it’s an average at the bottom and the grind that’s on the bottom allows for manipulation of that rotation as well well as the lofting and the delofting or even the lie angle change right so that’s what makes them so unique is we say well what should I have um what you should have is something that allows you versatility if you want to square it up and play Square which is great if you want to open it that’s great you want to try to play particular shots most of the time there’s less bounce on the heel and and the toe and there’s more in the middle yeah there’s kind of a little bit more of a PE and then that that curvature changes based on rotation right yeah speaking on the bounce there’s actually a good question we can kind of yeah you talked about we’ve talked about thin shots and this is Robert’s asking about the bounce on thin shots is there a ideal one for preventing thin shots on like a 60° wedge so my experience yeah I mean especially at if you’re having it if you’re hitting thin shots you might be playing on firm conditions right where you want that wedge to make sure it’s getting underneath the ball yeah and you’d want lower bounce on that right most of the time if you’re trying to bring something thin now Vice Versa if you’re hitting you’re just chunking it all the time you’re hitting you know ground before the ball as I like to say you’re hitting the big ball first you’re hitting the Earth first then you want to you know change that bounce in the opposite direction yeah and one of the things that happens like um I go back to the technology and Technique we can talk about the technology and how it uses but it also becomes technique so that if all of a sudden I’m letting that the head of the club get out in front of my hands this can turn up I can catch it thin that way even though I have low bounce which is supposed to dig in a little bit more Tech the technique obviously is a big part of the whole conversation too yeah and so that’s where I think you have to have both it’s never going to be just well I’ve got the technology and we’re good to go and um there are a lot of different there are plenty of different videos that you can see where instructors are talking about chipping TCH techniques I think it’s important to see what they say about it yeah then take what you can do I personally I’m a believer that your golf swing is what your body will allow not what you think it’s going to do for you it’s not one of these where it’s like someone tells me I need to get into a position if I can’t get to that position if I can’t make that happen I can’t hold this or bend this or twist that yeah then that’s not going to be a technique that you can you can use and which the best teachers are able to work around those types of things absolutely you know hone in a swing that way absolutely um there’s been a a comment and a question a couple of them in this chat I’ve been following what kind of wrap up here since we’re kind of at we’re getting to the end of the hour here but um both whale shark and Wade here talking about the bounce the the heavy bounce on the i230 pitching wedge and and utility wedge offerings yeah and and that is that maybe a a conversation you might have with someone let’s say they’re going to go into I 230s and this whole gap wedge versus or you know set wedge versus specialty wedge if that bounce is too high then you can certainly go to you know s159 gap wedge or something like that right and change it that way well and it’s interesting too remember when we went into the Titleist and um uh just a second ago and uh I’ll bring that up for a quick second on the Titleist remember on the title list um even though I said my pitching wedge is 46 it’s still recommending I get a a vogi oh yeah well I have I I play blades so that’s very similar it’s not a problem play either one if I wanted to um the same thing is true over here as we talk about the The Loft options that they were talking about in terms of the best grinds um the the same thing for the types of wedges right this says pitching wedge this says 50° yeah that’s a discussion you have with your fitter and one of the things that you do there is you find out do I need a little bit less bounce do I want to get a 46 Dee in the I uh in um like a ping wedge versus the Ping pitching wedge like an i230 it’s like the bounce may be one of the issues that you discuss crazy different you know I mean if it’s you know they’re talking about 13 14 degrees of bounce on like the the the stock i230 you wedge or gap wedge but you that’s just too high for you and the way you swing you maybe have a shallow attack angle that could be a problem and so then then you go down to that like a specialty wedge maybe it’s 10 degrees or eight degrees of Bounce that’s kind of more suited to your swing well and we we know like one of the things we don’t have is this endless supply of money customers don’t walk in here and just go well I’ll just get one of each of those and I’ll try a couple of these yeah right that never happen and we would never expect that no not at all but that’s where the fitting process becomes so important right you know we get the fitting free with purchase and we start to work on these things I think the the best part about a fitting is to get started because it’s it’s really about education it’s like Okay now what’s this going to do outside we’ve seen what it does inside we’ve talked about bounce we’ve seen some Turf interaction we feel now let’s get outside and see what it does yeah if we need to we have a 30-day play guarantee that allows us to rework that say let’s return that get something different or maybe it’s even the same Club just bending a certain way or you know in terms of a follow-up fitting and we’re saying you know um let’s see I had a wedge fitting uh my La last uh block of the day was a wedge fitting yesterday and uh it’s kind of going from three wedges that the young man had to maybe three new wedges well we ended up bending three two of the three wedges by a couple of degrees to get spacing but also to be appropriate for the type of bounce that we wanted yeah so we just had to get just had to get one with we could get both with that that’s correct yeah interesting okay so that’s yeah I mean that’s kind of a good way to to to wrap here though because I mean I know we’re at the top of the hour we had some great comments and engagement in the chat by the way um we’ll end with this one here this is a good one to end on with the last 5 minutes here um Matthew asked about we we talked a little bit about the cavity back wedges yeah and how they’re different is that something you go to right away for a high handicapper or do you still kind of give these sort of quote unquote traditional wedges a chance there or what’s that a great question actually that actually kind of Blends into another part of the our fitting process the first thing we need to determine is the head we need to determine more specifically of things like is it going to be bigger is it going to be smaller is it going to be cavity back is it going to be more um thinner or blade likee we we talk about the loft loft is very important because loft or launch at the moment of impact really determines a lot of that shot then we talk about shaft so shaft can be a part of this conversation do I need something that’s a bit stiffer does it have more stability do I want something heavier for momentum do I need something lighter all those things are on the table and that’s kind of how we look at it is the three parts of a club is the head the shaft and the grip we want to look at those pieces and that that’s what we would do 100% whether it’s a new one or a used one those are the things that we look at so for the high like the higher handicapper it’s it’s not you’re not just going to go and be like all right that’s just here we go we got all the cavity backs you know it’s kind of it’s all what the player needs it’s it’s kind of player dependent so yeah very yeah I like that um I think we’ll we’ll end it there if you have any more comments questions um you’ll be able to leave those in the comment section of the video once this is kind of up Live on YouTube and we’ll make sure to get to those otherwise of course we’re going to be back next Tuesday and our plan next Tuesday is to dive into the club of the winner of the US Open so we don’t even really know yet what we’re going to do next week um it could be be fun it could be wild uh depending on who wins it could be pretty standard we might just be Scotty sheffler again I mean I who knows you know what um he’s the best player in the world for a reason yeah I would say uh for me uh just get out there play um if you have an opportunity to look us up you can ask any of us any of our Fitters questions on that Y and uh like I always say uh stay razor sharp I like it stay razor sharp golfers make sure you stay tuned for any upcoming content and then join us next week and thank you for watching as well for