The Upshot: Portland Open Recap, Paige Pierce

Charlie Eisenhood and Brian Earhart (subbing in for Josh Mansfield) break down the action at the 2024 Portland Open. They talk Glendoveer, Gannon Buhr’s huge win, Paige Pierce’s monumental return to the winner’s circle, mountain golf, and more. Plus: Charlie interviews Paige after her big win!

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Chapters
0:00 Pierce & Donnecke at Portland Open
15:05 Paige Pierce Interview
26:20 Ankle Surgery & PDGA Insurance
34:10 European Open & Touring
41:05 Tattar Hitting 1000 & Donnecke Thoughts
49:00 Buhr Dominates MPO
1:00:15 Barela & Redalen
1:04:25 Big Event Infrastructure & Spin Rates

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[Music] welcome to the upshot UL disc golfs podcast about the latest in the disc golf world it is Tuesday June 4th Josh Manfield is out this week he’s uh he’s doing city council stuff he’s he’s got it he’s got the budget meetings on Pocatello serious stuff but joining me Charlie Eisen Hood today is Brian aart who’s become a familiar face on the show Brian great to have you back how are you I’m fantastic we’re sitting here in the woods in Oregon BSF is this week at Milo I mean life life can’t get too much better out here on the tour all right let me ask you something real quick right off the top Josh and I were talking in the rapid reacts on Sunday for subscribers that the ideal world would be to have the Portland open be this four round Elite Plus all that two rounds of the best of Glend deir okay and two rounds at MC Iver and absorb beer State fling into the mega Portland tournament how do you feel mixed I feel mixed I will say I think you have 242 Acres of these 100 plus foot tall Douglas Furs out here at Glend one course out there feels strange maybe if you did one course there maybe the other course gets built out for the spectators to go play between rounds um you could go crazy with the spectator experience there but I I don’t know I I want more rounds at Milo mver it would kill me if it was just two rounds at that course but I the last time we had worlds in Portland was 2014 I think if if there was a World’s bid put in um and we could do three and two I think that would be brilliant and I think uh you could really Jazz up the Glend ofir property to be just the best spectator experience in disc golf for many reasons other than just putting a spectator course on on the other side of the property because East in my opinion is just so so good it’s it’s some of the players favorite course that they play all season long and it’s just beautiful to watch on television I mean there there are few courses that are this pretty on tour yeah and that that stuff matters there there is a tree on that property that our drone guy clocked at like 150 ft that’s insane that is insane that is insane um well we got a lot to get to today Portland open very interesting tournament uh the second Elite plus of the season after wakeo Ganon Burr dominates to win at an no but even the bigger story in Foo Paige Pierce wins for the first time in over a year it’s her 68th Elite or major victory of her career and her first of course sent her pretty severe ankle injury last summer over in Europe that kept her out of PCS kept her out of European open she didn’t play again until the beginning of this season at the chess.com Invitational she hadn’t gotten uh inside 10th place until last or two weeks ago at OTB and then she comes out here and she wins it and Brian I mean it just feels like this opens up what this season could be in Foo after we’ve kind of settled into some expectations around it being you know Kristen and evina and you know maybe Missy in the player of the year conversation I think it’s going to make the majors really exciting the fact that yes Kristen’s gone overseas she didn’t come back evina is gone and now Paige is starting to Peak again she’s starting to get back to form the speed is finally back OTB gave us some glimpses of of what she could do I mean she sends a lot of energy into the concrete and when you’re dealing with an ankle injury like that you’re always in that phase of how much can I really put into this foot and then because of holding back you’re discs are going to fly a little bit differently you have to relearn your bag but man this last week at Glend I’m thinking of the the aggressive shot she thre on 17 going outside of the double Gap or the Double Tree Gap and and throwing a full Flex distance line that would that’s Paige Pierce that I know of and I’m excited to see her play style if she can really dial that in against Kristen’s consistent play style at the World Championships that’s just going to be fantastic what do you think has made the difference for Paige these last couple weeks I mean with risk of spoiling a little bit uh we I got an interview in with Paige earlier it’s going to air in just a moment we’re going to talk with Paige for about 30 minutes um she says she thinks she might be throwing further than before her injury because she’s throwing flipper discs basically is that really the story for you do you feel like that the simply like the distance is back and that’s what it’s about for Paige or are you seeing other signs that are like her game has changed since the beginning of this season that’s gotten her back to not just competitive but like winning with a close to a thousand rated tournament yeah I mean when you watched her during the the stretch of time that she was dominating pretty much every tournament it was a lot of 12 speeds Sometimes some 13 speeds coming out of the hand throwing just the most aggressive possible line that you can throw running every single putt that you could run but then you have this injury and you saw her throwing a lot more heer flip every disc that she has designed for disc craft is understable by nature and her play style is is is changing a little bit I I wish Tech dis existed you know a few years back when we could clock PA’s stats when she was throwing back then and see what they’re like now cuz she’s throwing clean right now I mean the disc is coming out of her hand with very little wobble it seems like all the lines are really intentional and yeah that the new disc that she’s designed to drive is a pretty stable distance driver I feel like it’s a an homage to what the surge used to be before the newer runs started to come out a little bit more stable and it’s an 11 speed to my understanding so she’s just throwing a control driver out there and maybe it’s just the decision making mixed with all that time throwing the putters when she was kind of hurting um that’s changed her I mean it’s a similar thing to to what happened to Simon right started to take a little off and all of a sudden the results followed you know it’s interesting to think about because Paige back then was playing on courses that were generally designed for no players not Foo Y and she had this distance advantage over the field that meant that she could just go try to jam Flex lines with super overstable stuff and she was out driving Everybody by 50 to 100 ft and was able to get birdies on holes that were otherwise unreachable for the foo field but the entire design like world has changed for fpo and now they’re playing courses where holes are reachable for everybody in many cases and I think it almost forces Paige to have to play a different style because she is going to have to hit more gaps and she’s going to have to be a little bit more of a finesse player because the the course design demands that I think it’s going to be great and I think Paige is ready for it she’s always been a frisbee head like you give her a lid and and she can throw it on any any which way you want and I think it’s just the decision-making that’s going to be refining for her over time as I think it is naturally for most professional players I think once you get good enough at the game that’s the most important thing that separates the best players from the ones who have talent but never seem to make the cash um and yeah I I think that’s pretty much it for Paige but there was a period of time when she was trying to find her bearings again where you could tell the timing was completely off because it felt like her feet were thinking one thing but her upper body were thinking a different thing you know she’s thrown so many aggressive powerful lines in her in her days playing that it’s like you your brain thinks that you should be throwing the disc on the angle that throws that line but then your feet are like I I can’t move that fast I can’t give you that much power right now so then that’s where the the shanks happen you know feet thinking Heiser upper body thinks flat I saw her do that a few times earlier in the season and uh whereas it probably should have came out with Heiser released it flat threw it into the woods on the right and she did that a lot early on but it feels like now the the feet and the arms are are a little bit more synced up and it was such a treat to watch this weekend it was awesome yeah yeah so she beats out Holland Hanley by a pair of Strokes Hanley goes crazy in the final round she shoots an 11 under sets the record but it wasn’t quite enough uh Paige had a pretty sizable lead coming in on 18 she was up by four strokes she ended up taking a double bogey but it didn’t really matter um and then Sophia donica who is a brand new face on the pro tour finishes in third she led the tournament after two rounds after setting the course record over at Glend ofir West um what Amazing Story this is and I mean she’s she’s two years into playing Brian and she’s throwing 400 plus and she wanted to cash this weekend and instead she finished on the podium she is a treat to to speak with um and and we can’t say that she’s only been playing for two years I mean competitively she yes she joined in 2022 this is her second disc golf pro Tour event we’re not going to take that away from her she did start during Co she started during Co just like you know Ella Holland few other really solid players and she started playing on tone pole courses in Victoria BC on an island and didn’t even have chains to putt at which to me is just awesome just an homage to to where our sport has come uh and where it came from but how do I say this the way she speaks is it’s like when you take beginner’s luck like the concept of beginner’s luck and then you bottle it and and and give it to somebody it’s like the perfect formula like her expectations were so low she shot 10 down at the West course and was like yeah you know I went in and I thought even was going to be a great score for me but that’s the mindset you’re not afraid you’re just going in there saying okay I think I could do this but then it lets the physical ability shine and then on the other side of the coin it’s like when you listen to Gan and say I better not choke this one away ah my putt feels terrible and then ding ding ding he wins the tournament by eight Strokes so it’s definitely a quantifiable thing but but it’s it’s not a coincidence that she did what she did this weekend everything was primed for for what she did can she keep doing this I mean she’s she’s going to be in the decisionmaking process right now especially if it goes well again this weekend at Beaver state where like what maybe I should like put a pause on my serious academic career or like figure out a more flexible option and go on tour because like I’m good enough to not just cash but to like be a real player out here like do you think she should do that or is it like maybe dip your toes a few more times you know I don’t know I wish I knew more about what a a gap in employment does for like the job market and like a traditional job especially for what she does but you and I are not the people to ask about no no I I’m dis golf until I’m dead and in the ground so uh I’m not really good good to speak on that but I feel like if I’m a dis golf manufacturer and I have someone who is kind well spoken Harvard grad like brilliant and super talented and motivated clearly with her athletic background it shows that like she knows what it takes to be an elite athlete I I feel like she’s going to be getting offers soon she has to but how good is that offer in this day and age in disc golf cuz I know a lot of those those deals for players who are not Superstars are they’re average they’re kind of going back to what they were when I started touring like a monthly salary is a pretty incredible thing to get if you were touring in in 2018 um but I think for her she did this tour to see what it was like she got third and played awesome and sounds like she’s having a great time and is going to play a few more events but it sounded like when she was speaking about her performance this weekend that it was the putting that surprised her so when you ask if she can do this again we’ll just have to see how the putt does over time the stroke looks beautiful it comes out of her hand with a lot of intention a lot of spin there’s barely any wobble when it comes out of her hand so she’ll Putt in the wind fine but that’s the thing that we need to see week in and week out the disc pops out of her hand I was telling people she she reminds me of like if you took Erica stinchcomb and Ella Hansen and like combined the two together that’s kind of what her backand looks like to me just by the way they move but it comes out fast like she has the intangibles right there that you can’t really teach somebody so I overall I think she could be extremely successful well it’s certainly going to be really interesting we’re going to hear from Sophia on Thursday’s show um got a little interview done with her earlier today and uh right now though I’m going to send it over to our interview with Paige Pierce who’s got a lot to say about what this win means to her how this changes her Outlook moving forward this season uh more on the recovery timeline and just the astronomical cost of her ankle repair and this time getting back to being able to play competitive disc golf uh and more so stay with us paig Pierce joins us next right here on the upshot [Music] the upshot is presented by pound disc golf makers of the best bags in the sport the custom toolbox Builder is coming to a close they announced that earlier this week people must Place orders for custom toolboxes before June 30th when the custom toolbox Builder will be discontinued so get yourself a toolbox it’s a great little bag you can use it as a practice bag for a long time it was my actual disc golf bag great size fits in your trunk super nice you can get it exactly customized to your specs but you only have another month to do that so head over to poundes golf.com check out all the options the custom toolbox Builder and come out and see them this weekend at the Portland open [Music] joining us now on the upshot is your 2024 Portland open Champion Paige Pierce Paige we just had you on the show coming back from the injury and it hasn’t really taken you very long to get back in the winter Circle it must feel like quite an accomplishment after what you’ve gone through the last you know almost a year at this point yeah definitely um yeah it feels like a long time but like tournament wise I really haven’t played that many since uh my injury so yeah it’s it’s kind of both like where it feels like wow I’ve come a long way and also like whoa like if this is what I can do this far along like hopefully I can just keep pushing forward yeah where where would you say that your game is right now I mean this was your first I was just looking at the ratings and stuff this is your first 990 plus tournament uh since last year’s OTB open which was also your last win on tour um so you know does it feel like you’re back to where you were or is it still like a lot of work to do in your mind um I think that my drives are back to where I used to be um but and I wouldn’t say that my putting’s not but this weekend in particular at the Portland open I didn’t putt as well as I have been even just at OTB last the last event and earlier in the season like my putting was saving me and this weekend I think my putting almost could have cost me the tournament but luckily my drives were back back better than ever so um honestly debating if I’m throwing even farther than I was before but it feels like I am but I’m not positive of that what why do you think that is uh I don’t know I think I got my distance back for sure just in and how I got that back is just like my timing getting the stab ability and and uh being able to like fully put my weight behind it with trust again um that’s was a big part of it and you know I had to change kind of like my timing and the way that my runup was because of my ankle and so now I’m back to my normal runup and everything um but now I have a my newest driver the drive it’s uh I’m not throwing as stable of discs so um like before my my main driver was a Zeus which is like kind of like a destroyer type where it’s like really overstable and I had to like torque it over to like get the full flight and with this new driver I’m I’m uh actually during my like recovery back when I first started throwing this again uh I was like only able to throw like seven speeds and lower um I just like I would try to throw like a 10 speed and it would just like stable out and go nowhere so um I wanted to make it like a flipper disc and so now like learning building up to this and learning how to throw a little bit more neutral flying discs like I’m able to like pop it on a Hiser and flip it up to flat and glide and I’m just getting more distance out of the disc um because of that I think so that definitely helps as well and it keeps me more I’m not really like going left or right too much I’m able to use the center of the Fairway so um I’m feeling more accurate at hitting Gap as well it’s uh I mean it you know we said it in the rapid reacts like this your win here kind of changes the complexion of the season a little bit because I mean I’m actually curious to get your response to this I mean a lot of people online have been talking about you like you’re never going to win again like you were just completely toast and this is the end of you know you as a as a top level competitive player um and obviously that was extremely premature like did you see that stuff and has that affected you at all uh I don’t look at that I have a social media manager and I just would prefer to not look at any of that stuff CU these people don’t know me they don’t know what what I’m made out of or like what my goals are or or how my body feels or anything so um haters going to hate right yeah does it does this win change your mindset about what’s possible for you this year like are you starting to look at Majors and be like yeah I’m coming yeah definitely I I I want you know it’s funny cuz like your mindset just changes like when I first was starting to throw again um I was playing every day I was like stoked to like you know sometimes it’s like oh I better go practice but like I was like o let’s go you know first thing in the morning grab my coffee get out the door go practice and like doing PT and I was just like amped on it it and uh my sidearm was good uh getting better and better because for a while I could only putt or do sidearm because I couldn’t like twist my ankle at all still even though even when I was able to walk um so I was like okay I’m getting better my putting’s getting better my sidearms getting better like and I was just feeling like amped up and like I’m going to win a major like cuz last year uh 2023 was my first year in my career that professional career that I haven’t won a major and so that was my first goal like okay I’m gonna come back I’m gonna win a major and blah blah blah and I I was like I’m gonna win a lot of tournaments I’m not just gonna win one and like be like oh page w a tournament it’s like I’m going to win a lot and like I’m going to be the person to beat and then you know three events later I go play three events and I’m like oh well reality check like I guess I’m not like it’s not as fine-tuned as I thought and I was throwing some incredible shots but I was just like really inconsistent like I would throw the best shot I’d like that IID visibly seen myself throw in the last year but then like two holes later I would hit first available and knock it up and down so um yeah like your your game but also your me mental state like fluctuates a lot so um the past couple I don’t know time I don’t know time but like for the recent past um I’ve been feeling like all right this is going to take longer than I thought all right um but you know just stay patient just keep pushing and then at OTB um getting fifth I felt like I was returning to form and I actually like had a catch session this it’s funny that playing catch has been my uh like my uh I don’t know like my base of like how Rec I am or not um but like catch has always been one of my favorite activities I think I’ve told you that before but M when the disc is flying to me you just like it doesn’t matter if the person throwing it shanked it you kind of like run over there and grab it and that’s part of the fun well I haven’t really been able to play catch unless like someone throws it right to me um because I can’t like do the fast like motions and running over um but actually at OTB I had two different catch sessions where I was completely unaware of even which ankle was broken um and I was like actually sprinting and then uh the next day after the catch session like I woke up and I I like just decided to try to like Sprint and like see how it felt and I was like jumping with joy just like that I was back able to run again because I’ve been able to like do a small little jog or do jumping things but like to run I haven’t been able to do that so that was was like a big big big confidence booster of like wow even though it’s hard to measure day by day what’s getting better like this is something I couldn’t do even just two weeks ago and now I can so like it was a it was a really big confidence booster that okay my body is still getting better and like now I’m able to do everything I was able to do before and I think that that confidence going into Portland like mentally nothing was holding me back and and and physically as well so um definitely so you’re going back to Europe in in a month basically uh are you does do you have any like hesitation about it because that’s where you got hurt last year um the only thing I changed was I booked the insurance for the flight you know like when it’s like do you want to protect your trip I never hit yes I never hit yes and I wish I would have done that cuz like on top of the astronomical like uh Financial strain of like the surgeries and all that uh the trip there because I also had my wife with me so like we had two trips that we had to now we didn’t get the money back and we had to buy new flights uh so yeah that would that cost quite a few thousand dollars there so I was like yes protect my trip but and now I do that every time I fly just CU you never know what’s going to happen um but that’s the only hesitation like going back there I’m actually really excited I’m I’m uh going to go to uh vestus and the course that it happened on and uh go see those people cuz I I really do want to just like I really enjoyed my time there uh and like I know how bad they felt and like I never even got to finish the course like it happened on whole seven on my practice rounds so like I want to go play the course and and say hello and goodbye to them and like just my appreciation and I I told my wife too like I kind of just want to go like sit on that bridge and like make peace with it and just like you know move past it and uh so we’re actually going to Norway as well before uh the European open cool uh you mentioned the travel insurance stuff does the tour did the tournament cover any of your medical bills because this was in injury sustained as a part of like competition I mean I know it wasn’t actively competition yet and so maybe that’s a wrinkle that matters but the PDGA has event insurance for this kind of thing um so did that come into play for you at all yeah yeah it did it was a long process like my my surgery was July 25th um and they needed payment by the day before otherwise we were going to have to reschedule surgery and the surgery cost was was $78,400 oh my God yeah and that’s just for the surgery that’s not like all the x-rays and all the other doctor fidgets and PT and all that but uh so anyway uh they needed $78,000 and I feel very fortunate that I was in a financial situation where I was able to do that um and I don’t really spend money on things like food and and experiences but like I don’t have a fancy car or like you know I don’t like the last time I bought a new shirt I can’t even tell you so like I I felt like really fortunate that we were able to cover that but then like the reality hit of like whoa there’s like all of our savings are gone and now I’m like out of a job so like right not only is it like oh here’s this one big expense but like we’ll be able to make it up in a short period of time or whatever like I was out of work I didn’t know when I would be back to work anything like that and it was a weird thing with the insurance because I didn’t like blame anyone so I wasn’t like hey I’m going to sue you you better give me this money or anything but I did just reach out to the pdj and and say like hey like it was a practice round blah blah blah and they were the pdj was awesome actually like I had two different people calling me and like making sure I had everything I needed cuz using their insurance like I’m not talking to the pdj I’m talking to the pdj so but the pdj still reached out and like was making sure I had everything I needed and stuff but um yeah it did cover it because it was an official practice day which is 48 hours before the tournament or whatever so it did cover it unfortunately though like the their policy limit was $225,000 so I did get reimbursed $25,000 not till like January so I was still out 78 Grand like for a long time but they reimburse me 25,000 but you know still only like a third of the C less than a third of the cost so um that’s actually something I I’m talking with my agent and my lawyer about just like you know getting with the pdj and and hoping like I don’t want any more money back it would be nice to have my bills like at least break even you know but it’s more about like the future like there like an ankle is min you know like what happens if I don’t know someone breaks their back and like is paralyzed or something like that medical bill who knows how much that’s going to be and like 25,000 is nothing so trying to like you know work and like show them like hey we need a better insurance policy um which this is the first time talking about this publicly but um yeah yeah we’re we’re discussing that and like going to go to the pdj and I I hope they’re receptive and I think they will be how do you how do dis golfers who are you know not employed by their sponsors they’re not employed by the pro tour they’re basically independent contractors and getting health insurance can be challenging expensive if you’re not getting it through your job yeah um so like what is the plan or I mean I think the pro tour has to think about this too because you know they don’t want you I mean you know you you may as you mentioned you’re were in position to be able to front $78,000 I mean a a mid-tier pro on tour is not going to have that money so then what like go fund me I mean obviously people can get insurance through the marketplace online but I I do think it’s uh interesting to think about like what what is the obligation of the PDGA Andor the pro tour to its athletes at these top level events when it comes to injury sustain on the course yeah and and to be clear I do have health insurance it was uh it was kind of a like a funny coincidence thing because this is like the first time I’ve had health insurance in my adult life I was like you know we should get health insurance like now we’re financially stable you know like let’s get health insurance and uh I got it happened in July I probably got insurance in like March or something like that um and so I did Health have health insurance but my policy only covered 80 $ they they said I was like what do you mean cuz I sent them like what happened all that yeah $80 of the surgery and then PT they don’t cover PT and they don’t cover X-rays and so is it just because it’s like a a bad insurance plan or like how did that work out apparently I didn’t so this is the naive of me because I’ve never had health insurance um make sure your plan covers surgical procedures yeah um I just thought that while would you have insurance like what else is there I just I didn’t even think to ask that question because I just thought I don’t know anyway so anyway since obviously I’ve cancelled that insurance and gotten new insurance that’s much better um but also much more expensive but you know it’s like yeah it’s just a crazy thing and that’s why the pdj took so long because mine was the primary insurance so it was like months work process yeah I probably spent 30 plus hours on the phone you know with mine and then it’s like okay we let’s do secondary insurance and then it’s like that’s the pdj oh and every time I got on the phone with a new person I had to explain no the primary this is the secondary and also since I paid it up front it was like this reimbursement thing and anyway it was a whole ordeal but um yeah I I think that it’s it’s a tricky spot from what I’ve been told anyway I haven’t done my own research but um with the pdj or the protour or even our sponsors doing insurance for us um we’re not technically employees we’re like we do contract work so it’s hard to get insurance for a contract worker so I don’t know how to remedy that I know like in the NFL and stuff they they’re in a union and they get insurance through the union and they pay dues to that so I mean that would be ideal situation is that we create a a union and like we have some sort of and then then we have insurance and we have lawyers we have a place that can say if we disagree with something like you know anything like that so I think that’s probably the next step and I think it’s definitely definitely needed long overdue I would say yeah wow I mean it’s a ongoing thing but I mean I I guess thank goodness you were able to get it done and you’re back and now you got a chance to go try to win a major out in Europe a place where you’ve had a lot of success in the past uh what’s your confidence level going back into that tournament you know I know you missed it last year because of the injury Kristen was unbelievable last year in European open she blew everybody away um what’s it going to take to beat her and take down a major this year yeah um I think that honestly like I think Kristen for sure I think henna I think evina I think we all have games that suit that course at the Beast really well it’s pretty pretty open um and long distance shots I think uh we all have a pretty good chance just going into that course but don’t we play tare also yeah yes it’s world world’s preview for next year that’s what I thought so this year playing both of those it’s going to change things dramatically so I feel like for me my game plan is just to be super aggressive on the Beast and try to get some Strokes um before we head to Tampere because that one is very tight very very tight and um yeah that one I probably we stay like you know hitting hitting shots hard but clubbing down to like my Putter and just making sure to get through the Gap and maybe playing for par on some of the tighter holes but um you know I’m excited to get out there and and figure out that game plan um but yeah the Beast I have so many memories I’ve been playing there for so long and um yeah I’m excited to get back there it was really hard watching that one from home when I was supposed to be there like you know I had my Airbnb booked I had my flight I had all of it and uh you know sitting at home like throwing up every two seconds because of the anastesia wearing off and like you know watching it was just like so sad and um yeah I’m looking forward to it it’s one of my favorite places to play and uh yeah it’s just I’m looking forward to it and and I do feel I think what was your question what’s your confidence level yeah okay uh sorry yeah I feel I feel confident I feel um a little bit uh unsure about tare but just because I’ve only played there like twice so I’m like trying to remember the holes but you know I’m a pro and I’ve played a lot of courses and like it’s not something where only playing it twice is going to really affect me I just need to make sure I get enough practice time and set up a good game plan but as far as the Beast my confidence level is pretty high you’re not playing the beaver State fling this weekend uh do you wish you were since you’re coming off the wi no definitely not especially because I’m coming off the wind because like now I actually have time to like enjoy the wi and not like otherwise it’s already like practice time like it’s crunch time for them like and so like to not have that uh okay put this big Monumental win for myself behind me and move forward to this next tournament like it’s nice to just be able to sit in that and like keep like flashing back to certain shots I threw and like yeah that was awesome like I really like overcame some like mental thoughts on that one and like yeah so I I especially because of the win I’m excited that I’m not playing but I think it for me it’s like like I I didn’t know I was going to win so I made I made those plans before I won so like for me it’s just like I want I love Milo I love that course but it’s just I have to be a little bit more choosy especially when I want my career to be long I don’t want to play every tournament and like I want to make sure my body in my mind are fresh like and so every time I go to a tournament I feel 100% committed and 100% like uh physically prepared as well so um yeah I’m actually going to Am Nationals this weekend in Michigan and doing like some clinics and like a a challenge where like if they beat my score they get a a new disc and uh yeah so it’ll be fun like watching some players shred tobogan getting a practice round before deow which is also an elite plus and uh yeah just hanging with the Discraft fan for a few days uh you know looking back at your schedule so far this year you hadn’t finished inside the top 10 or like you were 10th at chess.com but then you know you didn’t have a single digit finishing uh result until OTB where you finish fifth and then of course you win this weekend what do you feel like changed the most from kind of those earlier tournaments to these past two where like you clearly have come into form I mean you L you led the tournament in circle one in regulation this weekend you you barely went out of bounds uh a lot of things look like they were working except maybe Circle two putting yeah um honestly just like my body getting getting better like and with that my mind too because like my doctor’s telling me like uh I think it might have been like around March he gave me the full green light on like okay now you’re allowed to jump you’re allowed to twist you’re allowed to run and but allowed to and feeling like feeling actually able to and feeling confident in that um you know being like feeling myself getting more and more confident with every step or like little jump or run like I’m saying was a huge turning point so like once I really started like jumping again and pushing off like my jump putt felt better and like you know pushing off that back foot but then again still in my head sometimes I would be like okay don’t push off too hard and like my that would change my entire timing and early release late release some good ones but a lot of bad ones um but like just feeling it being painfree and like over time more and more and more shots like not hurting my confidence is just getting better and better um so it’s just a a patience thing of timing thing and you know I’m still not like fully recovered uh from my surgeon’s perspective he said a full year for Recovery um so that’s also good for me to like keep in mind and like okay it’s going to keep getting better it’s going to keep getting better but it’s funny you don’t have like this like you know numerical like monitor that’s like okay you’re just 86% healed you’re 92% healed like so you just kind of have to figure out your own limitations and and like you worst case scenario for me is re like getting hurt again so like pushing but not pushing too hard uh you came very close a couple years ago to getting to a th rated and becoming the first player to do that in in Foo um didn’t quite get there and now Kristen has eclipsed that um as the most recent update are you disappointed that you didn’t get there first um not like first um I’m disappointed that I got so close and then now it just plummeted um that is what I’m disappointed about not that like it’s a race or anything I think that’s still a goal of mine to like get a thousand rated and now we can see that it’s possible so um that gives us all hope not just myself so but I know now like I have such a long way to go and it just it just goes to show you like how consistently good of a player Kristen is you know like getting a shooting a thousand rated like lots of people do that lots of people have done that but like for Kristen she’s done it so often and she just like she she reminds me of like Val back in the day when I was competing against Val like you have to play lights out to beat her she’s not going to mess up really you know and that’s that that is Christen to a te like she really doesn’t mess up you know you have to beat her so um I feel like she’s obviously pushed the bar and shown us what’s possible and um yeah I feel like I got a long way to go from from there but if you said something about 990 rated golf or something so like that’s that’s moving in the right direction for me and um you know just trying not to think about how long it’s going to take and just trying to keep pushing and and uh improving and you know hopefully hopefully I do that and hopefully with like taking these breaks and playing the tournaments that I really want to play then you know I keep my body fresher for longer and I can you know who who knows if that’s five years down the road but if I keep consistently rising up then maybe that’s still possible for me uh Sophia doni led the tournament uh for a time this weekend I know you got a chance to play with her a little bit what did you think of her game as she kind of made her DGP take debut just like two weeks ago yeah I I played with her at OTB open as well and um when I saw her name on my card I was like huh I don’t know I don’t think I’m know who that is and then I saw the little Canadian flag and I was like cool like I’ve been playing with new players all the time lately like especially like being down at the bottom of the field like I’m meeting new people all the time and I’m like wow this girl like shot a hot round we’re on Chase guard together at OTB sweet and she killed it and you know like seeing her just Crush shots I was like this is awesome but I didn’t really realize that she was going to be on tour tour really so I didn’t know that I was going to see at OT uh Portland as well and then you know when I saw her name up there I wasn’t surprised at all especially with you know how solid her game was at OTB and she was on Chase Card already at OTB um but I was surprised when I talked to her more and more and realized like she’s only been playing for two years really like and she’s kind of like one of the Calvin types like she’s a she’s got her degree in chem engineering and stuff it’s like wow like you know she’s very intelligent and like that shows in like her choices she’s making too and but like yeah dis selection and just like her pure pure power is just like really really impressive all right well you got a week off here um your next tournament is is um up in Minnesota preserve H how are you are you looking forward to that and uh you know kind of the last stop in the US before you head over to Europe yeah um preserves one that I love as well it’s just like a really cool spot to be and um yeah I I definitely didn’t want to miss that one it also works out pretty well for me cuz I can drive my car to Illinois leave it there fly out of Illinois and get to Europe and then have my car there for when we get back um but uh yeah so I’m going to amn Nats this weekend and then next week in the middle of the week I’m going to bonaroo and I’m doing another clinic there and last year we had like 750 people so I’m hoping we’ll get like around that or maybe even more this year and then I go straight from there to preserve and uh so yeah the next and then straight from preserve to Europe so the next few weeks are going to be pretty crazy for me so I’m kind of enjoying these like three days I leave for um Minnesota U sorry Michigan on Thursday morning so um I’m enjoying these two days at home that I get to just chill for a minute and uh then yeah really looking forward to preserve and you know at that point it’ll have been two weeks since I played my last tournament so um I know already already I’m thinking about the shots and like what discs I need to pack because I’m kind of like packing for the um for my next little leg of of travel and so like I’m already thinking about the shots and uh definitely I know when I get there like after not playing for two weeks I’ll feel like really excited to play again and like uh yeah I’m just excited to to be out there for sure awesome well Paige thanks so much congratulations once again on uh getting the win and looking forward to seeing you uh at preserve and then on to Europe thank you so much Charlie thanks for having me so it’s not lying my favorite podcast to be on you as you asked the best question fantastic thank you always always enjoy having you on we’ll talk to you soon all right byebye byebye we’ll be right [Music] [Applause] [Music] back welcome back to the upshot thanks again to Paige for making time and Brian I know you weren’t there for the interview but I know you know that Paige has got to be one of the best people to talk to in disc golf the most honest interview maybe in all of the sport it’s definitely she’s a top five for sure definitely she’s she’s been she’s been around the block a few times and she’s been interviewed a few times so you as an interviewer you got to be on your game you got to ask her questions that are engaging and and entertaining um but yeah uh I think she’s finally getting really excited to come back and and catch I said a second win but it’s more like a fourth fifth sixth wind with how long her career has been but it’s it’s awesome to see the emotion and how excited she is to just be throwing the disc well again I know when she got interviewed by Nate she was like I’m just happy to have my discs fly the way that I envisioned them to fly again so the Gratitude is definitely there do you think she’s going to win a major this year that’s her goal that’s her goal and I hope she brings it I think it’ll just be so exciting Kristen coming back from the injury I hope she’s okay um I mean evina is coming back and she’s performing at the top level Missy Always shows up at this level Holland has six podiums this year and I don’t know I think we’re primed for a really exciting finish to the season with the playoffs and and all the majors so I think she could do it if she does what she did this weekend and I’m interested to see how she plays at New London which is brutal it is true Northwood style woods so we’ll see how accurate she’s thrown at that time of the season that’s going to be a that’s a real wild card yeah a lot of players haven’t played the course yet it’s hard it’s gonna be it’s going to be really interesting yeah um all right let’s turn our attention over to no G Burr shot a it wasn’t a bad round at all in the final round four under on a day when the hot round was a six and he won the tournament by eight strokes this is one of the largest margins of Victory on the tour in a long time uh tied for the largest of the last five years and he had a 10- shot lead going into the final round Brian we do not I almost called you Josh we do not see this level of dominance on tour anymore it is extremely rare to go into a final round with somebody with more than like a three maybe four shot lead yeah and Genet had 10 what in the world was in the water this weekend for him well first off crazy stat the last person to have 10 Strokes after three rounds of competition was climo at the 1999 us dgc crazy that’s crazy that and really all that it’s it’s three Strokes a round it’s right and that’s what’s funny about these longer tournaments is like you’re not going to outplay somebody uh by just throwing the flash of your t-shot it’s those three little micro mistakes per round that will get you that big lead and he did did that 10 times and I remember interviewing him and he said something along the lines of uh if if I clean up all of the simple things it’ll be impossible for me to boie and he’s focusing on all those little upshots those 30ft putts all those little things that don’t feel like big mistakes but they do add up over the course of a fourr round tournament and I thought he was brilliant and when you talk to him uh normally he’s like oh this was terrible my putt was feeling as bad as it’s ever felt blah blah blah you know the mental gymnastics to kind of keep that low expectation beginners mindset like we were talking about but this week was definitely different he he felt he felt like he was satisfied what by the way he was talking obviously he’s nitpicky about everything because he’s obsessed with disc golf still but um I think we saw aanon playing the way that he wanted to play and it wasn’t like he did anything spectacular like the rounds he shot were very very solid it’s so interesting because I feel like when genon really puts it together like this for a weekend you kind of ask yourself who could beat him like who who else is out there I mean obviously we’ve seen Calvin’s looked fantastic when he’s been at 100% this year Bella was tremendous to start the year we’ve seen other guys look really good but I just I still get the feeling when I see stuff like this I’m like Ganon is about to be the guy for the next decade and there will be other people who get wins of course but I just don’t know if I see other people playing at this level it’s really it’s it feels like the putting is the separator but he has every facet of the game unlocked when he is at his best in a way that I don’t know that other guys on tour do right now I would say yeah I mean I I I’ve been saying that ganet is the best player um in the world for a while now I think there was a time time when I think AB had the momentum and had him beat and the tour Point showed that but when you’re talking about just unlocking different skill sets and making them stock skill sets he has everything now I think for a Time Perkins and I were were were looking really closely at how comfortable the heer flip looked like for him and at first it looked just awkward and not good and it looked like his whole soul wanted to be throwing a flex shot and kind of following through out of his shoes like he’s used to but he has just gotten so much better at like hitting the brace jamming his hips throwing the heer flip letting the disc do the work and he was throwing it as fluid as his Flex shots and the coolest part is he was like changing his posture on the Fly and he was dancing back and forth between the two play Styles easily and you take it for granted you’re like oh yeah all these guys should be able to throw a Heiser flip and a flex and it’s like not not really like you pay attention on tour and there’s weaknesses for all of these guys um when Paul is throwing Heiser really well Paul’s throwing Flex terribly and he’s mentioned it in multiple interviews Ricky has just started throwing Heiser flips after a decade plus of playing well so ganon’s got the Head Start and I I can’t even imagine where he’s going to be in five years in regards to how he approaches the game I predict that he’s going to change change the way the game is played like Steph Curry did in the NBA I think we’re going to see kids using him as the Benchmark for for quite some time do you mean that in the sense that his completeness of game is something that the kids are going to start to follow as well because it feels like for a long time players kind of figured out what worked for them and then they just sort of stuck with that and that meant that you know there were forehand only players or backhand only players I mean there are those players on tour right now um and some of them very successful but it does feel like you’re starting to become at a fairly obvious disadvantage especially as course design has stopped favoring righty backhand as much as it did in the past um and so you have to be able to throw both spins but like what specifically I guess about Gan do you feel like is going to change the way things are relative to what other young players are doing as well so I I have to go back to Paul first cuz I think Paul truly did that first um because I I’m not going to take away how good his forehand is still I mean he’s still one of the best forand throwers in disc golf and then when he was playing at his best you know the backhand had everything too he was able to do anything he wanted with the backhand but weird weirdly enough it feels like Ganon has taken that and then ran with it even farther like he has he has that crazy like nose down power Flex Shot style that Ricky throws as his stock shot and then now he’s learning these like little nose up spinny Hiser flip shots he can play the wind and throw the flip up distance shot he can throw a pd2 and a hard nose down flex and get the distance line it’s just even closer to whatever that situation calls for I have the optimal throw for it and it’s actually a throw that I’m confident in and I you know I still think Paul has has some weaknesses too um and I just think ganon’s improving upon what him and Ricky Set uh the bar for for quite some time and now he has the the awesome forehand too like his forehand is developed into a deadly weapon I mean he doesn’t need to be throwing Heiser flip forehands there’s not too much of a of a need for that but his forehand is unbelievable I mean he has plenty of distance he has great control over the flex he can throw all sorts of speeds of disc with it and then he has this putt that again feels like a blend of Ricky and Paul’s putt it’s like this spinny NOS down dagger putt that can go up to 100 feet without having to jump I don’t know I just think he’s improved upon everything in in the world of Chess he reminds me of Magnus Carlson where where people are like I I can’t play against this guy he has an answer for everything he’s completely Universal he’s he’s mastered everything so are there things that I Ganon can improve on sure but man has he improved on his weaknesses and and is getting close to that fully Universal play style do you think it’s a coincidence that he won both of the four round Elite pluses this season a coincidence I mean I guess what I’m saying implicitly is that more round scream Rises to the top it’s why we see World Champ it’s why world the world championship is considered the most prestigious tournament to win so like is it the fact that like his skill is able to shine through with more rounds to show it off yeah I don’t think it’s a coincidence uh even before he overtook AB in in the tour points he had a better average finish than Anthony so he he was finishing higher up and not finishing uh lower down the leaderboard better than AB was even when he was winning so um I think Ganon if he brings his best to the table at the majors should have no problem taking his first world title down this year because of how much better he’s gotten playing in the woods I think whatever golf course they throw at him in Virginia he’s going to just absolutely annihilate it and in the woods I feel like he has just become such a threat whereas before I I wasn’t thinking that he was what do you make of the fact that he finished 10th the Champions Cup at Northwood uh that was just an insane week in general it was it was and I I think that had a lot more to do with just mental fortitude than anything and also we played four rounds at Northwood black where a lot of things can happen so I actually applaud him for getting 10th place at Northwoods um if it was you know two rounds Northwoods two rounds Eureka he might have done better um he’s a US dgc champion he knows how to play on these placement style courses um that’s why I feel like he did so well at Glend that’s kind of his dream style of golf is like Park Style Big Trees big gaps but not like long corridors like Nevin things like that um so I don’t know I I think Woods style he still needs to get a little bit better at like I don’t I wouldn’t call him like top five Woods players on tour but I I think he could I think over time he could yeah yeah I mean he clearly has the tools to get there he’s 19 that’s crazy it’s crazy to imagine that he’s only 19 I mean how wining he’s already done he he could literally become I mean I’m not going to say Michael Johansson I I’ll go to somebody else Michael Johansson’s a beast of his own um but he he could be as proficient in playing in the woods as like a Dickerson in the next five years easily because he already has the stable game figured out he has the windy yeah Midwestern you know placement golf figured out so I I don’t know I I’m maybe that’s what I’m saying in regards to changing the way the game is played we forget that he’s 19 we forget that in six years when he’s 25 where they say that’s your athletic Prime the the game is going to be in a completely different place largely because of him and maybe a few other guys his age what do you make of Anthony Bella the last few weeks we saw him obviously come out so fantastic at the beginning of the year but he’s slowly been finishing kind of worse and worse at tournaments um a kind of a particularly bad final round eight over in the Rainy conditions on Sunday left him in 44th um and so is is is something off is there a timing problem what’s going on I really didn’t get to watch him play a lot this last weekend umir but players are allowed to be burnt out and it’s been a lot of golf and he won three tournaments really early and it felt like I started to talk to him like every single day and you know we were putting together these packages of oh the big four are coming for you ab and Ganon and nichas and Kyle Klein they’re coming for you and and uh I don’t know he got a lot of lot of attention real early and you know he he’s not going to tell you straight up that he’s feeling burnt out cuz he’s he’s cool calm and collected AB but that that literally could be all it is and I uh I know this firsthand because it’s it’s hard to play a full season of disc golf and act like you you have the intensity each and every week are these courses that I thought he was going to win on yeah absolutely 100% but I don’t know uh what did he finish what what position did he finish in I didn’t even look 44th tough final day yeah maybe he checked out maybe he saw the forecast and said eh I’m not going to win I’m checked out yeah it it was not it was not his finest work in the final round that’s for sure he opened up with four straight Bogies and double bogey holes one through five with uh five out of- bounds shots so oops oops Prett much that’s all I have I I I don’t know I and and you’re not going to know it’s kind of like a Calvin character you know I was shocked that he even told us he was feeling injured um there’s just some players that don’t want any of that out there and that’s totally fine you know uh I think a lot of players are learning if you if you tell someone that you’re injured or you’re burnt out or something it’s going to be constant check-ins uh on the media side so every press conference every yeah and you’ll be at every single one of them and I’ll ask you the same question every week so yeah that’s right um col rallan finishes in second place he’s starting to come back into form and his home state of Oregon uh 25 under I mean obviously he was eight shots back of Ganon but Ganon played in another level from everybody else it was like Ganon up here and then the rest of the field was playing like a second tournament to see who could win that that mini version of the tournament um and it was Cole who got that win uh you know we we obviously saw some great stuff from Cole last year it’s been a little bit of a slow start for him in 2024 but this is certainly encouraging it’s awesome he made he made a a swing change this this season he wanted to uh engage his off arm a little bit better which looks fantastic now he wanted to you know kind of compress his form a little bit keep most of the distance but improve the accuracy I think he’s doing that um and I think it’s just a long long form change that he’s going through and I’m guessing that his his shots are not as precise because of that but he is such a pro to talk to and he’s so young anytime you know you do an interview with him it feels like he’s been media trained like he’s so well spoken and emotionally intelligent I’m I’m pretty impressed by him overall but this weekend he was just charged up by the fans he loved putting a show on for the Portland fan every single time he hit a circle two putt he looked back and he was like making sure the people knew that he he saw them and uh he he almost got emotional going into the final day because he was so happy he got that eagle on 18 to put him up to the lead card he was so excited to play in front of the hometown crowd and he knew that no matter what the weather is they were going to show up and of course they did because it’s Portland yeah I I Portland needs another worlds I would love it I would love it that would be so awesome like you know two three years from now like what so the F last one was 2014 you do like a 15 years later thing even that’d be fine that’d be awesome I I I think there’s there’s a real opportunity and I feel like the people would come out huge I mean of course I honestly wonder if the pro tour is going to reconsider the lack of uh Western tournaments on the schedule because they play OTB they play the two tournaments up in Oregon and then peace we’re out of here um and the best crowds of the season have been OTB and Portland what I’ve heard and uh I I can’t place this on specific places because I I don’t know the details and I don’t want to botch it but sell signal is is a real problem um for a lot of these awesome places and it’s so sad but also infrastructure comes first I remember interviewing Sam gtis who’s you know the one of the big media operations guys for the disc golf Network I interviewed him at the US Women’s and he he laughed when I asked him about winning the lottery and putting that Lottery money towards something for the the network and he’s like I don’t care nothing else matters to me except for sell signal we need more sell signal we need to make more of these places viable it sounds like there are some spots West that are just just unbelievable and would be great locations for the tour but we wouldn’t be able to broadcast it live to anybody and I think basically makes it a non-starter and those satellite trucks are like what like 60 Grand or something like that for like a weekend of golf or something crazy like that so I I don’t know but I think that’s the sad part and the other thing with like Mountain Golf like Blue Mountain We we played um the Zoot toown open there last year and that the infrastructure just wasn’t there for for the broadcast um and and for parking and for all these other things so yep it’s sad but I’m hoping that one day we have a whole tour of Olympus is in Maple Hills that’s just uh that’s what I’m hoping for here’s here’s my pitch and I somebody somebody from like the Utah area actually like clipped a earlier podcast of us talking about this a week or two ago Salt Lake City you’ve got a bunch of mountains that are within Stones Throw of downtown yeah and I have personally skied these mountains and made phone calls from the lift and had excellent cell signal because you’re just literally up at the top of the mountain range it looks over the city so the towers are pointing right at you and they have I mean these are Big ski mountains icon pass Epic Pass mountains they have tons of infrastructure food drink parking lots all that and it’s it’s like close to the city park city is like 20 minutes from the airport now I do not know whether any of these places have a legitimately Championship level disc golf course but if they don’t build one like these these mountains are absolutely looking for things for summertime because of course they make 95% of their revenue in the winter as a ski mountain but Salt Lake City is the answer because the problem with Colorado all those mountains are hell way the hell far from Denver I mean there are some close by but it’s not it’s not a great fit but Salt Lake is the complete opposite and I promise you the the disc Sports Community there would come out strong and I know Josh Mansfield personally would go so oh he would that’s brilliant that’s great listen I want Mountain Golf more than anything I think it is so cool and I think you know one time on the tour showcase the beauty of that part of the country I think that’s one of the beautiful Parts about dis Golf and that’s why I think a lot of people are sad when we play on most traditional golf courses because you lose that idiosyncrasy about like where you are in the country I feel like Glend is an exception because of the Douglas Furs um sure it really it it evokes Portland exactly so it Norwest exactly so I think we should do that and I love that idea yeah you know what I I’m going to just say this now if anyone from the disc golf pro tour hears this idea from Charlie and you’re monitoring what I say I’m going to say this to you I will design that course I will Design the mountain course in Utah on my own dime and we will make it happen let’s go sounds awesome I love Sal City someone’s going to hit you up I’m I’m down I am so down that would be amazing it would be awesome it would be I love Salt Lake I and the fort there’s there’s like there’s there’s Great Courses in Utah but it just depends on who wants to run the event local organizing committee means a lot I wonder would one of the ski pass companies want to sponsor the tour do they have operation staff too do they have local people there to help build it out that’s the other thing it’s like our operations team is not a million people it’s very small and we we need people year round out there working on that so that’s the other piece of the puzzle that I don’t think some people realize the local organizing committee is extremely important to putting these events on sure sure well I I I know there’s people in Utah who would step up for that I mean you got such a you got industry there too with infinite and everything so uh it it can happen I I I can see I can see it you know 3 four years from now it would be awesome um all right Brian what else stands out to you from uh Portland open this weekend I mean you you watch the tour closer than probably anybody uh you’re doing Tournament Central pre-and post every day so you’re having to go deep into these topics and maybe not even necessarily specifically Portland what are you just feeling right now in this point in the season that’s kind of like noticeable to you uh that we haven’t already discussed man we discussed so much on Tournament Central and and I’m so excited that for the direction of the show too because they’re giving me and Perkins a lot of freedom to start building it out how we want uh but but there was so many good things to talk about uh about Paige but we said them Sophia awesome story we said them I think ganon’s mindsets always funny to talk about how he kind of jumped through these Loops to keep himself humble and uh we’ve talked about that the one thing that I want to talk about right now Charlie is from the new tus segment that we did we we we’re finally partnered with TUS for Tournament Central one time a weekend we get some throwing stats from a from a player on a feature card and something that blew me away and any form form Geeks out there that want to do some analysis on this um Calvin heimberg throws 75 miles an hour and has one of the lower spin rates of guys throwing that speed I actually think he has the lowest spin rate of the guys is throwing in the 70 mph range um at least of people that I’ve tracked he is in the 1200s to low 1300 range for RPM most guys including myself are throwing 1,400 to 1500 and then some of the real spinny players like double G syas Schultz are in closer to that 1600 range and uh yeah I don’t know it’s so interesting getting this this uh new data from the players and I was like huh Calvin throws a little less spinny than I thought he did that that’s what I’m talking about surprised I’m surprised because I feel like when I think of more spin I think of a straighter flying disc for the most part right it’s going to have less action at the end of its flight because it’s not losing RPMs and wanting to fade as much um but I think of Calvin as like a very straight thrower laser being doesn’t have a lot of action at the end of flights so that surprises me that he wouldn’t be up higher in the spin department and I I almost wonder like what would it look like if he did throw with more spin it’s interesting to consider I I think it’s because the the equipment he chooses would not fly laser beam straight for 99% of us the Eagles he throws are stiff and flat the Destroyers he throws are hilariously overstable for anyone who doesn’t throw that fast um C Doan actually said those stats don’t surprise me he’s like I throw more in that 1400 range but Calvin’s throw is a lot more uh just raw Force like he has kind of that locked arm when he’s throwing so he’s putting a ton of speed into the disc but yeah I don’t think he has that same sling motion that whippy motion that other guys do um but he makes up for it by choosing the right stability of disc but it’s change nothing change Absolut Ely nothing that’s the beautiful thing about dis golf right yeah you know what you get from more RPMs is slower turns so you can throw those long late flipping turnovers better um and Calvin doesn’t throw a lot of those he’s tried to because he’s you know he he lost the power forehand but it’s definitely not a shot he’s he’s throwing that often so that’s the one thing you lose but I don’t know that that stat was just kind of mindboggling to me uh but we’re going to get a lot more data like that and it’s be so cool to talk about that and compare and contrast as we get more data from the players got to get that into the broadcast you know like oh yeah stat cast stuff from MLB is so interesting and you know going Beyond just miles per hour but also you know of course in in in baseball we’re talking about launch angle and we’re talking about you know percentage chance of getting a hit and we’re talking about you know the angle of attack and the spin rate on the ball and blah blah blah blah blah like disc golf is even more mhm driven by those kinds of stats and like there’s less flakiness because you know it’s like you hit the ball really hard you hit it right to the short stop unlucky you um but in dis golf you know for the most part you’re throwing it where you want to throw it right it’s not like randomly spitting out of your hand uh of course there’s still if you’re throwing to a gap 400 feet away sure there’s Randomness there but the the angle of the disc the angle of attack to the ground I mean all these stats like it’s fascinating stuff and we have to figure out how can we get that stuff in real time without having to use some sort of modified disc that’s the Holy Grail I don’t know when that’s coming but that’d be wild to actually have want spend millions of dollars you could do it today CH like chips embedded into the the discs to where they could throw them in competition I I think this is just the beginning the the guys that camera systems that can just see and super slow-mo like what’s going on I mean it’s definitely possible it’s just right now too expensive oh man I think this is such a cool start though and the guys at Tech dis have so many big ideas for the future and I I don’t know it’s just a another part of the game that I’ve always wanted and now here we are uh being able to talk about that so I have a few ideas like I I want to do a little mythbuster series with it too to see like oh how much spin does a power grip actually give you or how much nose angle does it give you compared to a fan grip and I I know stories of players saying hey I just started power gripping like recently so then you get you know I’d love to get the stats to see what’s actually uh changing when players do that so yeah I don’t know that’s that’s what I’m thinking about Charlie we’ve we’ve talked enough disc golf here but just talking about throwing is uh interesting to me great great stuff Brian always great to have you on the show thanks so much and uh I know uh that you’re getting married next week so sir uh a pre congratulations to you I hope the wedding goes fantastic thank you sir yeah it’s always it’s always a fun time to come here and talk dis and yeah I will see you all at the beaver State fling see you on Tournament Central all right well and enjoy mver I hope the weather stays beautiful and uh Brian I’ll see you soon all right brother talk to you soon my friend that’s going to do it for this edition of the upshot thanks so much for being with us be back with you Thursday to preview Beaver State fling right here on 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