Today Ian is in the bay to demonstrate why it is so important when getting fit to make sure you are testing the right clubs for your unique golf swing. It is all too easy to immediately reach for whatever style of club has the most forgiveness or technology that often accentuates distance over consistency. Ian gives a visual demonstration of why longer is not always better when picking the perfect iron.
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Filmed at: Club Champion Toronto
Custom Golf Club Fitting Studio – Toronto, Canada
before we filmed this video we were saying okay what’s the fastest longest Iron Head in the drawer and we picked obviously this model and that’s what it like you said that’s what it’s designed to do yeah it’s a distance iron it’s the loft of a distance iron and obviously has a CG location that’s designed to kind of give you still give you some launch and some spin but like it to me look that’s four iron numbers for me all right guys welcome back to the channel Michael we’re diving into the world of forgiven irons today and and actually what is a forgiven iron okay um I think we we throw about this term like you as a golfer need a forgiven iron and that is the biggest one we have in the drawer right right the you know larger footprint stronger love that’s what you need to be forgiven when I’m in the bay and I see people who need forgiveness in actual fact I’m most weary about giving them the modern forgiven iron okay I think the the modern forgiven iron has become or should now become known as the distance enhancement irons because that’s what they do the Lofts are stronger the center gravity is lower so the launch is higher and they spin a bit less when the ball spins a bit less it’s a little bit easier to tilt that spin axis in an actual fact you miss them more laterally and you miss them more vertically okay right so how far the good one and the bad one goes typically is worse and how how far the the you know left and right dispersion is is generally worse so want to talk about that today and and for you guys to maybe not misdiagnosed when you go for uh whether it be a fitting and and you start to be be maybe taken in a direction being able to think for yourselves and go I don’t know if that is really the direction I need to go I’m looking for forgiveness in and and distance might be that for some someone right they had it really solid and and maybe you do need something that these moderns give but forgiveness can also be just hitting at the same over and over and over again because of the characteristics this has versus this and it’s nothing about Brands no this is just about you know so characteristics Blade versus a you know yeah game improvement iron a speed product versus an a consistency product right and and they’re very very different and I think that LS itself into the what is a forgiven iron conversation right let’s hit a couple of this so we have our modern cavity back iron loaded with technology guaranteed to hit it further for sure that’s what you know you’re getting when you buy a set like this yeah but what else do you get along with the package so I hit my six IR Mikey about Golf Course number 185 I think you can move this to probably about 205 yeah okay um and I think feel pretty good about it okay well there’s there’s a bit of the forgiven part of it yeah that wasn’t a great strike right little Healy a bit thin maybe it was heel side but I definitely felt the thin part before we film this video we were saying okay what’s the fastest longest Iron Head in the drawer and we picked obviously this model and that’s what it like you said that’s what it’s designed to do yeah you know there’s still there’s still Precision in these irons obviously these these manufacturers still want you to hit It ultimately your best yeah but you’ve just proved I mean this thing is a distance iron a it’s the loft of a distance iron and obviously has a CG location that’s designed to kind of give you still give you some launch and some spin but like it to me look that’s four iron numbers for me yeah totally you know let’s let’s hit a few more all right my what do you see um I mean for for where the kind of the strikes hanging out you know being a little bit lower certainly the first couple it got better was much better the last couple like you said it’s it’s four iron territory for you um you know be in this forgiving six iron um the only thing I you can see is you can see dispersion sometimes goes a little left to right more than even on the on the ones you struck really nicely um you know it’s obviously it’s fast it’s you know it’s I guess doing the job if if you’re this type of person looking for you know that those kind of numbers but for the low strike you get away with it 100% super forgiving and it does the job you definitely definitely do I think when it comes to the ball data I think one of the things that for me or even back to the table if you want um you know the kind of 198 to the 213 carry that scares me MH the the 138 ball to the 132 ball you know launch and spin are actually doing pretty good yeah for the most part I mean one that spun a bit low I’m not sure really why to be honest um shot number three yeah a PE drops a bit yeah yeah did a little bit but it just that’s the amount of fluctuation that if you miss your mark on on the landing spot yeah you know you’re you’re in some bother all right let’s look at blade okay we’ve got the green at 180 for now in the in the blade nice thing with this test we’re obviously keeping the shaft exactly y to your spec let’s see what uh what you’ve got with the blade solid strike yeah felt good really nice he the first bunch of swings there I mean it just looks autopilot consistent this looks like the same things happening doesn’t it yeah I mean Peak height is relatively in the same window yeah even The Descent angle we talked about that a couple weeks ago like that’s even a little bit more consistent your ball speed is a lot more consistent for me that is a fascinating test yeah for like what what really is forgiveness like forgiveness to me is what I do or what I’m likely to suffer for whether it’s a Miss hit whether it’s toy you know actually because of this the club design itself like you could see I couldn’t get to the middle of the golf club with a with a wide Soul yeah get into narrow soul and I’m I’m literally living right in the heart of the golf club like everyone felt so good there yeah so I mean and you’re not going to get these forgiven golf clubs to act like Precision Instruments like like a you know misso blade here I think the the interesting one is like obviously you know speed dependent player dependent on on like a a larger scale obviously you know give you something and you can generally get away with it but when you go to a blade and you don’t play blades when you go to a blade you strike it as consistently as you do it’s like why not you know what I mean um you know those the irons maybe with the most help make you swing maybe out of your shoes a bit more or maybe not thinking of of strike at at impact because I mean those blades just looked e you know effortless again um whereas you know the the forgiving iron yeah um I mean I’m a I’m a visual guy the just little difference in dispersion forget the distance the difference in dispersion is is nuts and I think that’s the argument right there I mean you look across the bottom and sort of ball speed spin carry distance right the major metrics you know launch angle was we we said that was very good with the Cobra but um actually with the you know with the the met the metrics that are going to be really meaningful for you they’re all heavily in favor of of the blade yeah and I think being able to get that strike actually on the part of the head that you want to strike it at and nothing massively changes like attack doesn’t change drastically path is same same um yeah it’s uh it’s interesting yeah and and you know there six what we got yeah six miles an hour of dynamic or yeah degrees of Dynam not miles an hour Dynamic Loft Six Degrees of dynamic Loft difference in actual fact you know if yeah that that’s the thing if if you gave me I would be more consistent with a a blade at the same Loft that I would be of a big you know perimeter weighted cavity back that has all this technology packed into the face it’s designed to leap off it’s our fastest ever iron at the risk of sounding contradictory to what we do in a daily basis who cares yeah yeah great if you can if you can hit it you know with precision and know exactly where you’re striking is I mean I used to say to you all the time like why are you still playing those mura blades those 501s and they like you almost had to prize them out your dead hands yeah yeah yeah you’re you love the ear you’ve got right now but you were really good with those Murs yeah yeah I yeah I don’t know what it was I I know they were a little bit stronger that’s me I bent them a bit stronger but there was uh I mean you give me that forearm back in the day and you’d hit it and you’d look at me my dad would look at me like how are you managing to do this I don’t know I don’t know it just it just worked all right guys so a video that just should serve as a bit of a reminder whether you’re somebody who’s in the search for irons and you’re going to go out trying some stuff or you’re a club fitter and you’re in the industry and you know you you kind of tend to lead certain players by handicap towards certain irons that are you know designed like the the distance enhancing iron if somebody needs distance and that’s what they’re really struggling with there’s these irons have a reason totally if you’re a little bit of a of a fader and you create excess Spin and and all these types of things again there’s good reasons to bring spin down but if you hit it pretty neutral like that there’s there’s no real you know need uh to to sort of add more distance and and sort of um life spin I think with the with the the speed head or the forgiving head obviously this video is not telling people to go out bu a set of blades um but you know like you said if you need the speed that’s the iron for you but if you’re looking for consistency and you’re at that higher handicap level I don’t think you necessarily need to go to the most game improvement iron look at those yeah I mean that that’s the collection of of five shots in there with the uh with the blade I mean those those trajectories are all blended into one they’re in such a tight line so good it’s it’s something to think of for you guys and hopefully maybe we’ll we’ll you know help some Fitters out there to sort of not misdiagnose when they see someone in front of them that they just think they’ll buy a set of clubs from me if they hit it further no they’ll H they’ll buy a set of clubs from me if they’re likely to play better that’s what this comes down to Performance 100% good all right guys lots more coming soon to the channel if you’re not a subscriber make sure you do subscribe it really uh means a lot to us leave comments below like the videos if if you do like it let us know what you want us to follow up these types of videos with more on topics like this so stay tuned for more and we’ll see you again soon [Music]
26 Comments
So well said ! I’m of an age when I remember everyone played blades and guess what, we all enjoyed our golf and hit fairways and greens. Strong lofted clubs are fine if you have the club speed to generate the spin needed. If you don’t, just use loft to help.
i think I finally understand why I hate irons with massive soles…can't get anywhere the middle of the face 🤔
I'm a 20 handicap ( 90-95) and this is perfect for me to see this. I tried 4 irons today from same company. Most forgiving I was going further with more roll out and the blades I was having higher spin and maybe 5 yards of roll out. I feel I hit the players irons better which is true but makes no sense.
Mon eh Rangers
Not fair to the Cobra. Of course, at the 205 yard shot, dispersion will be greater than that of the 180 shot regardless of club type. Need to re-do this with like for like lofts. If a mid cap golfer needs to go 180, would he benefit from hitting the Cobra 7 iron or the Mizuno 5 iron. There, you will find the true comparison of the 2.
So I like the concept, but you really haven't proven much of everything. The hypothesis has some merit – that given a set of controls, your higher spinning players iron should keep shots more on line. But you aren't factoring in a multitude of variables, which makes any data non-deterministic.
GI irons exist for a few reasons- the lofts are low because they are often associated with lower swing speed players. They have lower spin rates, but because of their shape and weight distribution they get the ball up in the air (low cg and perimeter weighting help tremendously). They also help keep off center hits from having too much front to back dispersion. They can correct some of the left-right, but that is more tied to path to ball and face angle, where the club design can only do so much to help. So the idea is that you retain the energy transfer or speed to the ball from the club on the GI irons a lot more, which for slower swing speed players is crucial. Those GI and SGI irons are not designed for high swing speed players. That's why when you see Ian or Rick Shiels or Peter Finch hit those clubs they go like 240 yards for a 4 iron. Very few amateur players would produce results like that and in those circumstances they probably would benefit some from something that would increase spin.
The players irons are designed for players who have a very consistent strike pattern. And strike consistency is harder the longer the shaft is. It's also why you see mixed sets being a very common thing now – where the longer iron is basically an SGI or GI iron to help with launch and strike forgiveness, and the shorter irons are designed for feel and distance control, which makes sense because of the shorter shaft.
What's interesting though is by going through this process it almost advocates for something like single-length irons – something that removes a considerable variable in the golf swing for amateurs. You would need a lot more testing with lots different setups before you could make a determination on if players irons could help your game.
Nice idea but worthless as you are such a good ball striker Ian, get some 18 handicapper in from your golf club and repeat the test. The results may be similar but it will have more resonance with your usual audience
Mid handicap here. Started playing with srixon zx4s and switched to mizuno jpx tours. Night and day difference. Feel more confident and concentrate more on my shots with the tours. Play with what works best for YOU.
I went from blueprint blades to t100 and I might go back.
So then why do elite players play combo sets? Why do they hit different long irons? This seems like a sales pitch to me.
Hey guys great content as always.
Can you do a video on testing a mizuno 245 or 225 bent to standard lofts like 7iron 30 degree set to 33 or 34 what happens to the distance,spin and peak height. Would you still have the forgiveness?
What’s the difference in loft between those? 7-8 degrees?
I tested The Cobra aerojet irons on trackman and compared to my old cavity-back irons with no modern technology at all. I measured the lofts, and compared the clubs by loft, not by number. I could not see any distance gain at all in the cobra irons. In fact, they did not launch higher. No difference in spin either. Bigger variation in distance with the cobra irons, but actually less dispersion. Much better feel and control with the old irons.
But i’m definitely too slow to hit bladed long irons. I think combo sets is the answer..
Let’s see this same test with a 25 handicap, I’d be willing to bet that if I (29 hcp) did this same experiment with blades vs cavity backs, not only would I hit shorter, I’d also have way more dispersion with the blades.
Not a realistic test. Choose the distance then choose the club that hits that distance. You would need a bladed 4 iron to compete with a dark speed 6, then the spin and dispersion would be similar, presuming that you can hit them both with ease.
This is why professionals don’t play forgiving irons. But does a 15 handicapper with two irons that hit the ball the SAME distance, not the same number on the sole, would have the result? Is the whole golf industry on the wrong?
My first set of clubs in 20 years they got me into the same type of distance iron. I lasted only 15 rounds with them. I lost all my distance control.
I got so frustrated and I began to believe that most of the “forgiveness” was just marketing BS. I decided to get the complete opposite of what they fit me into with a set of blades without any technology at all.
They were a revelation. I shot my best round of the year first time out. I’ve tried other more forgiving players irons since but I keep going back to the blades. This forgiveness myth needs to die.
Went from TM790 to ping430 lob wedge to 4 iron. Love the easy work ability, mostly hit a draw. At 84 and playing white tees now I’m able to maintain my 5 handicap easier. Traded my Calloway epic driver for the Ping 439 and forgiveness was not a problem, but my distance actually increased about 12-15 yards. Love your videos, never miss any.
This test completely missed the point. Of coure a + handicap can hit blades well.. the average golfer cannot.
A more accurace comparison would be a 6 iron blade to a 8 iron game improvement club. Most golfers will get better results with the latter.
I've 100% had this happen! I got fit into T100 and irons was a rougher part of my game but my miss and angle of attack made the T100 better than any of the irons I hit and I haven't regretted it once. Shout out to the mississauga location 🎉
Big difference in efficiency but that doesn’t tell the story. Much more consistent with the blades.
Great comparison ian glad you could clear some misconceptions..however i think we have missed the point about GI irons..and who should be using them. If we do this same test with an 18+ handicapper would the results be the same? Imho..i doubt it very much.
As much as i enjoy txg videos, i think you should use someone whose swing is not as perfect as yiurs when testing or reviewing gi irons or forgiving clubs.
I wish you guys would've included the 4 iron blade, to see how that disperson compares to the 6 iron cavity back. Very interesting video.
Could you compare a 4-Iron Blade vs 6-iron game improvement (e.g. which iron performs better going 205 yards). That seems to be a better comparison because the std deviation would be apples to apples more
Wouldn’t it make more sense to compare dispersion by testing a 4-iron in the blade model against the 6-iron in the forgiving model? This way, we’re comparing clubs at equal distances, allowing us to see how spin rates compare and evaluate dispersion on a one-to-one basis. We might need to add an extra wedge or two to the distance set to make up for any distance gain, but I think it would be more meaningful to compare based on comparable distances rather than relying solely on what’s stamped on the iron, especially considering the different intents behind the two models.
Crossfield did this years ago and blades were more consistent
American accent…..where’s the Scottish gone?