2023 Ryder Cup sit-down with Hunter Mahan | NLU Pod, Ep 767

Hunter Mahan returns to the pod to catch up on all things Ryder Cup and gives his take on what went down in Rome. Before the Ryder Cup discussion, Hunter shares his reasons for optimism concerning the professional game and offers some insight on the players’ response to the communication from the Tour concerning the framework agreement.

all right we’ve been pretty uh pretty down in the dumps I think on this podcast lately just about developments in the Pro Golf World give me give me some kind of optimism what what should I be optimistic about professional golf going forward oh for sure I think um I think the the the the the opportunities are really kind of crazy I think fun and interesting and I think golf you know I do I am optimistic to the idea that golf will probably come back together I do think within a few years so I am optimistic about that I think I think the players want it I think um I think the tourist won it it’s just figuring out there’s a i there’s there so much to figure out now and figure out who’s in charge and you know who’s going to make kind of that first move to say okay let’s let’s make this work let’s make a partnership work that’s in the best interest of the game of golf even though I don’t I never never been a fan of that slogan because I never know what the game of golf means but you know um the best players and will not playing together um 15 20 weeks a year definitely doesn’t make sense um but I I you know I share your sentiment the last two years have been quite troubling um but I but I am excited about the players um that are coming up that are playing so well that we’ve seen and from an international perspective and from a homegrown perspective um that it does feel like in the next few years things will get I think slightly back to normal but that’s just my optimistic view I don’t have any as you do or anyone else say no one really knows what’s going to happen that’s where I I keep coming back to even in your optimistic Outlook there of the golf world coming back together I’m like okay well that puts us back at like 2021 right which it’s still I didn’t think things were trending that great at that point and there’s still some broken fundamentals that I don’t know if just everyone coming back together solves it all really but I’m wondering kind of you being able to zoom out a little bit from the golf world being you know a little bit removed from the game in terms of your your Peak playing period and and uh and not being in the in the hustle on a week- toe basis H how would you what what would your role if this happened in the peak of your career what would you be uh you know wanting to see happen what would you be like pining for um I would be pining for what I would want is some sort of control about who’s going to run it’s sort of like I look at it from like a college football perspective is that we have all these conferences and we’ve got the PJ of America we’ve got uh the me the Masters we got we have all these great entities we’ve they’re they’re all great and it’s got the SEC and they got the big 12 we’ve got all these great entities and we have a great product but we it definitely feels like we have to come together a little bit more and figure out how do we do that how do we do that efficiently how does everyone happy how do we get all the players the best players in the world how do we get a schedule that’s maybe you know 10 months long we so the players do have two months off right so we’re not competing with football you know and and how how do we kind of streamline this thing to where I do think like the European tour has a real purpose and they have real value how do we helped them how how does that because I always felt like when I joined the tour they were a force right in the 90s and in the 2000s they were a real force and that sort of situation between the European tour and the PJ tour coming together for the Ridder cup that that is what made it so wonderful and so competitive and so interesting um having so many guys now on this tour it it I I don’t I don’t love where the European tour is going I wish they had more stability I wish they had more influx of of of money and economy to where they’re they become stronger and and um so many of those great events are sort of going away now um so like I I just wish that everyone was sort of get together in a way and figure out how do we do this how do we create a real tour of the best players in the world together and to where the the majors are highlighted and the the PGA Tour and the Europe and other tours are also highlighted throughout the year that’s what I feel like I’ve been rooting for the PGA Tour just because it seems like the best option right now you know in terms of the best it’s where the the players have have convened the most together right I think it has created among its many flaws created the best possible competition in go the best available competition right now and diversifying the game has not been a good thing for it and further diversifying is not a good thing I think I keep coming back to like if if they’re really going to this for-profit model which I I I’m as soon as I start talking about that I’m venturing into territory where I’m pretty uncomfortable with my knowledge of it I was pretty confident in the signature event thing and like hey let’s get the best players on the on the field on the course of the same time that’s gonna be great for golf that’s pretty easy to understand now but when you get into this for-profit thing I struggle to understand how the PGA tour goes back to looking at all what it looks like now and how we don’t end up with some kind of global Tour on top of the the PGA Tour and the DP World Tour um again I don’t know how that works but I think kind of what you’re talking about there is pretty similar to that I think so I I I um and you that other layer of this is there so much trust has been broken I think between the players and the management right and like I said you almost have to for a scary as it sounds sort of tear it down and rebuild it and I think that’s the unfortunate truth to this is what has been can no longer keep going as it was it’s just business as usual I just don’t think the players I don’t think the players want that and and and I would not want that playing now I’d say I I just we just need our own representation in there to have conversations with these people and not have you know like the in you know um re emanuel’s company coming in and they put a bid and and they they rejected it it’s like well who rejected that did the players get the players get their team into that and figure out what that is what that means or is it just Jay has power to say no you know I I mean I think there’s so many more questions as a player um that you’d want to have now and all of a sudden it’s like you know your your eyes are wide open to the reality of what’s going on behind the scenes without your knowledge and that’s I think that’s an uncomfortable thing and and in this world of uh player empowerment in almost in all sports this is like a real situation where the players are not really it’s not even being listened to they’re not even get getting to hear any of these conversations and so that’s really concerning um if I’m a player and I I do think the reality is you just have to tear this thing down a little bit and you’re going to have to hire someone with real business experience and Real Entertainment experience to figure out what is the best way to have this Global brand be utilized it’s not an easy thing um I still think like the NBA and the NFL this is where the best players come the NHL and so forth like this is where the the best players come but there’s still a rule for you know the Asian tour the European tour and I think a strong European tour helps the PJ tour and helps all those events so um I I that’s feels like the reality to this thing is just we kind of have to tear It To The Ground now and figure out what’s who’s going to lead it and who’s going to be in charge and everyone has to feel comfortable with that I think it’s it’s it’s interesting because I there’s what I this is not me saying that leadership has done a good job here because I that’s not the reaction it’s not the gut feeling I have but it’s also to say I don’t know if the answer is turning over more power to the players like I’ve read a lot of quotes from players about how to handle this stuff and a lot of the players out on tour are extremely extremely good at getting golf balls into the hole Yeah I do not trust their business experience to to be able to you know go sift through the reanu deal to to make the right decision there right so but that doesn’t mean that that you know that you’re not exactly correct to say that the players shouldn’t be trusting the current leadership that has gotten them into kind of this debacle as well so it’s it’s tricky it’s a it’s a representation thing it’s not a player run thing it’s just players have to say okay who is going to who’s speaking for us we have to have some speak for us I want to pause on this though because like this is where I get really disconnected of and again when you talk to players on this like it is all about players right but me as a fan can hold my hand up and say like hey what’s maybe in the player’s best interest or the 50th ranked player the 75th ranked player the 100th ranked player 150th ranked player what in that player’s best interest might be very different than what is in me as the Fan’s interest and the sport as a whole interest right so the way the tour is run the way decisions are made is based off this membership kind of you know you know platform that the guys that are put in charge are there to serve the players right so yeah they’re doing all they can to help grow the pie grow the game that’s why you hear grow the game so often to bring in media interest and all that but it’s their hands are tied in a lot of ways because of they got to put up tournaments they got to put up starts they and you end up with this really jumbled product where you kind of aren’t really delivering for the fan and yes the players are getting paid but how much can the Game grow that’s kind of where I’m struggling with where the future really goes yeah and I don’t I don’t disagree um with the concept of of where where is you know and that’s why you know you need someone who with an I feel like some sort of entertainment business background to understand you know how do we um profit from all these things how do we you know squeeze the most out of juice without taking away from um The Fan Experience um how do we use technology which technology is I think is is maybe not helping the the entertainment sector of in certain areas but I think in sports it’s more popular and more um I think it has more power than ever to have live sports live drama that’s what people really will tune into um how do we do a better job of that how do we do a better job of taking a player and and a fan saying I I want to watch this player I don’t want I don’t care about all the other players right now because I love this guy I love John Ram I want to see him I want you know how does Spain get to watch all of John Ram right and so there’s such a great International component to the game of golf that um definitely doesn’t feel utilized as as well it should um I always will go back to I it’s not as if I want player run things I just want there has to be some sort of player run there has to be some sort of player representation in there that they hire that that they feel good about someone going in there and I know it’s like and everyone always CHP that well it’s a union you can’t do that it’s like to me the rules are done like I don’t care rules it’s like we’re doing whatever we want now at this point because we’ve seen bad leadership and just bad decisions over the past few years and what it’s sort of left and and it’s just a fractured um situation and there were so many mistakes made that are mistakes that should have never happened that that really if I’m a player really make me nervous about the future about what we’re doing and as a player in this Rory Rory is a good example of someone who’s been on the Forefront of these things but now he’s taking a step back because clearly he’s like I’m not a capable of doing all this I just I’m just a golfer and he’s a guy who wants to be in those conversations and wants to be there and now he’s like I’m done I can’t I can’t deal with this I can’t be the best golfer that I can be which is what I’m here to do and then sort of help facilitate and be sort of a you know it seems like he’s kind of in between the players and the tour trying to you know speak for everyone and I don’t think he does and I think he’s feeling that and that responsibility and um so it’s it’s definitely a mess and it’s definitely a mess of who’s in charge and everyone pointing the finger at someone else and no one’s really you know has nobody really has a real understanding of what to do that’s for sure when you refer to mistake like clear mistakes that are made what what are the first things that come to mind to say even with the benefit of hindsight we can look back and say like hey these this was a mistake this was a mistake this was a mistake what what’s the leading candidates there well I mean the I I remember um being at a meeting years and years and years ago with with Jay and there was rumors of I think it was a you know um a group from like New York had was was thinking about launching a tour it was just it was in the air right it was it wasn’t really a competitive tour but it was something around and it was they were circling and they were talking to players and stuff um and he came out in this meeting like talking to you know like a bunch of children like you will not do this you have no right um talking down to the players and it was just it was a very aggressive um U meeting and you have you will be kicked off the tour you will never be back let back on um you suspended indefinitely if we hear of any names going out and it was such a strange uh sort of conversation um and it was far from the you know this is a membership group where the players are in charge it was a you will do what you’re told and you have no right to leave it was I thought it was just such a strange feeling and such a strange meeting and strange message message for everybody um it didn’t give you any sort of confidence or understanding what was happening and then you know the the the rumors of Liv coming up um having no conversations with them having no understanding of what they’re doing just to just to maybe understand what they’re doing not to take a meeting I talked to plenty of people and I know players have too were like at the very least you take a meeting just to get a sense of what is happening what what do you think they want to do and where they want to go with the game and the reality is if they had a couple billion dollars they wanted to influx in the game of golf you probably had to put your personal feelings aside and actually say okay this is a really interesting big opportunity um and talk about it and and and and then maybe say maybe say no but to not have a meeting and then everything that transpired afterwards was just U um sort of a debacle and it it it put the players in a really bad spot and that’s of all the things that happened to put the players in this situation is is sort of when I look at it is is was the biggest problem I mean they just they put them out there in front of the sort of in front of the media and they’re standing there every week and Rory and Jordan they’re all talking about it and it’s just like this is not their job like you can’t expect them to play golf produce entertain and then some be the pr St like that’s not fair they did not deserve that they they did what you wanted and then at the end you just completely caved and then you just you you backstabbed every one of them it just was so not fair for all the players and what they did it just just it just wasn’t right yeah and on top of that it’s it was a a deal that you know even the an intro level uh attorney a secondy year associate would say hey there might be some antitrust concerns here Department of Justice is yeah and now we’re going like it’s just like what is going you know it’s just you’re just so confused about everything that’s going on and it’s just like I said the players being put in this position to where they have to do they’re in charge of everything yet somehow they don’t have they’re not have the right to look at the deal or to understand what’s going on years ago and then you it’s just like wait a minute you can’t have it both ways you can’t say it’s your tour and then say um you don’t actually have a say in what what we’re doing right you get a vote but you know it’s pretty clear those votes don’t really mean much right the the policy board votes of the only ones that really count right what is that you know it’s sort of like what you know and and it just feels like everyone’s over their head now yep um well that’s enough on the depressing stuff why don’t we talk about the the US Ridder Cup team then um wait oh that’s not depressing uh I I’ve I’ve mentioned this on the on the Pod a couple times but you and I uh we’re on the same flight I think back from uh from Rome and we caught up in the in the Philly Airport and the passion was burning coming off that flight and it hasn’t really died down for for me I hope it hasn’t died down for you in terms of of the path forward here before we get into that though what was you you were over there doing some some commentary for Sky Sports uh how did that come about what was what’s that experience like and uh will we see you maybe more in broadcasting well it was for the world feed actually not the Sky Sports it’s it’s it’s funny over there there’s a lot of lot of I actually did for Sky Sports um few years prior at Hazel team that’s right they asked me to do it and then they asked me to do it uh Whistling Straits um and then the European tour Productions called me to do it for for Rome and um the the rder cup is what it’s what I watched as a kid and that’s what got me so excited like that in the Masters but the rer cup the the the the the team aspect of that and the passion you saw from the players and the captains the fans and the all the emotion from it was was I loved and so U being a part of it as I was um was so special to me and those are the things that I I I keep dear with me and I love so much so whenever I’m asked to do it I always say yes because I can’t wait to be a part of that in some sort of capacity so they called me and asked me to do it um they wanted my perspective from being an American player being a European tour production they thought that would be a nice bounce to what what they’re talking about in the world feed and everything and so um it was great they allowed me to be a fan they allowed me to be you know sort of a part of the USU side in a good way but you know I I did my best to just be very um uh transparent to what the information was providing me and how things were going right and so um it was it was really neat um to see it because it felt you know that that different lens you know watching like hazel teen and Whistling Straits and stuff um and then being on their soil and watching it was completely different perspective and it seemed very obvious to um sort of what the problems were and how how we looked and how you know I you know I talked to um a couple players afterwards and and what I felt was what was happening right and we sort of saw it too um everything going on was not was not great so um it was um you know it was it’s still a special event it was still super cool but the ending obviously and how things transpired was very was very frustrating um and we had a great talk about it in the airport um I don’t want to Ramble On too much no I’m gonna we’re g to get you for for everything here we’re going to get it all out of you here yeah so so you know so go ahead so G say I was confident not cocky going into this I I I thought this group was different I thought this was going to be a Changing of the Guard I thought they figured something out at Whistling Straits that was going to help carry over to this one uh that would ultimately get proven wrong but you’ve been a part of multiple teams that have crossed over and you’ve you know you’ve been a fan of golf for a long time this has happened now seven straight times what were your expectations going into this right I kept believing they could overcome this travel to Europe thing but were you wary of their chances at all going into it um they’re such good players right like when you really sit down and look at the team like they’re they’re just so good you wouldn’t think that what happened Could Happen um but they you know and I think even Zach admitted to this that time got the best of him actually he said recently and and it’s amazing how unprepared you can be for something that you have sort of two years to prepare for and he had all these assistant captains with him who have been captains before multiple multiple times all this experience and at the end of the day they weren’t the reality is they weren’t prepared and that’s crazy to think but I think that’s the very simple basic truth to this um they got there they had that practice session sort of um and it was too late in the schedule to fly there then fly back and then fly there again within like a couple weeks of each other didn’t really make any sense um they got there too late they got there like on Monday what are you doing um didn’t make any sense um they were um I heard they were they didn’t really have great pairings they just were sort of like very analytical with the pairings um and had like they had no plan B they had no plan C they had no plan D it was sort of like well this is what we’re going to do and hope it works and it just they looked like they were cramming for a test out there and they didn’t look comfortable at all um I think the Europeans and I think you had um um the Europeans were ready they just look so prepared and they were so ready and and you know um you know it there’s just I think there’s so many things that go into this playing on the road is a real Difference Maker and we’ve seen that and people keep thinking like well we’ve got to change things it’s like you don’t you don’t have to change anything like it’s just it’s such a different mindset of traveling and being on the road in this event because you’re not used to it at all so if you’re a captain you have to go talk to um you have to go talk to a Michael Jordan or or Justin Thomas’s connection Nick Sav like talk to Nick Sav and say how do you go to Auburn and get your team motivated and prepared for that environment because this is not much different it’s just really not um when you’re there you were there it’s a completely different energy than when you are in the states right and you need a different sort of energy from your captain in your leadership that week because you have to create the energy the energy is not there it’s really easy in Hazel and Whistling Straits to have energy and to have U sort of that focus and desire and the passion from the fans it’s all it’s everywhere you have to tone it down if you’re in that room when you go there you need to create it and you need to create it the moment you get there and they should have gotten there five days earlier wow they should have really gotten there way way earlier got acclimated by the weekend they could start really preparing and practicing and playing but then even before that I think waiting too long to get their pairings and they’re not trusting their better players they’re not trusting um a Scotty sheffler to go out there and and you know say okay we might Parry with Sam but I want you to take a look at you know another guy I want you to talk to Brian Harmon Max I want you to talk to Brian Harmon I want you to talk to Sam Burns I want you I want we need to start circulating these Partnerships way earlier and really talking and really starting to to get these guys to buy into each other and figure out okay this is our little web of two to three guys that you might play with and and so on and so forth we’ve been so enamored with our guys and like Justin and Jordan together that they have no other parents like they have nobody else they play with like Jordan just wasn’t in good form he was having his second baby he just was it was distracted and he just wasn’t going to be there the way he usually would be and he played too much right he should have but but Justin’s like well he’s my guy I gotta play with him he had no other pairing like how do you not have another pairing how are you not prepared for this everything felt crammed and they just weren’t ready and we keep talking about having um a tight group and there’s that that kishan and Europeans are are much tighter and and in the reality is it’s true it’s 100% true they have a much better plan and understanding of how they’re going to have to come together together as a team and people think it’s about having a good time and and and putting your arm around the guy it’s not it’s about Partnerships it’s about who are you going to roll out there with and how much have these guys been working with one another clearly the European side they’ve been working on these Partnerships for a really really long time to where these guys came together they’ve known each other you know you could just tell that there was this Vibe between them that they know exactly what they’re going to do and how they’re going to do it and there’s a rhythm to what they’re doing I mean that morning session for as much as it’s like well there’s a lot of time left it was really over after that that 4 nothing I mean it was done I mean and that’s a crazy but it was you saw it right on you saw it on on on the fa of of the European Squad they were so prepared and so ready and our guys looked like they just they were still getting acclimated to the situation and by the time there was emotion and then Patrick came through and there was some fire it’s a Saturday afternoon it’s over yeah like like you have to create energy and emotion throughout the whole week and it was like they were they just weren’t concerned about that they were more concerned about sort of bonding and like the bonding is irrelevant like nobody cares I don’t think they know how to bond I I think they they think you know they kept saying we’re the closest team ever and all that but it’s it’s it’s that’s not it’s not what inspires Great Golf and I that’s what I want to pick your brain on too like the blueprint is out there right I mean the Europeans have have have well documented their approach and I guess I bought in a little too much to what padrick Harrington said after Whistling Straits like they’ve copied everything we’ve done our advantage is gone like I I just I bought into that I was like I totally believe now that the US has has figured this thing out this is a totally different crew that doesn’t have the scar tissue about going over there and all this and then like you get up to press conference afterward and speed says yeah they just kind of like made more putts and chipped in more than we did and I’m like bro that’s not what just happened and it just seems like I I’m so so impressed with how Rory and how Ram specifically just 100% th% going into the week like they’re the name on the back of the Jersey before they enter that team room they throw that Jersey in a hamper in the corner and then they’re like they wear the team Europe uniform like from the jump the absolute onset if if some uh Captain came to Rory and said hey you’re only going to play En forums uh the in the team match and this is what I need you to do he’d be like okay okay I’ll do it and the US seems to have none of that Vibe not only do they not have the captains that are willing to like set the tone on this they don’t have the guys that seem willing to buy in on any of this it seems really far away uh for me um I don’t know like I um I don’t know if it if it’s they don’t have the guys to buy in I do think I think it’s fair to say that these guys think about the rder cup all the time I think Rory and Rah this is why Rah will never go to live like is he is too invested in the in in the rerup right like there was rumors of him and it’s like he’s not he’s not going he has a legacy he wants to like sevy created um this Legacy for Spanish players that he’s not going to just throw away like he he wants to really build something um you can tell how much it means to them to play in the rider cup because they’re not representing themselves they’re representing the people before them right like they have they roll that sevy poster down and so real it’s so real watch and I’m like wow like being over there you get chills I get chills just thinking about it like he is you know we you know in sports we talk about all the time about you know the um you know the pillars of the game right and and and um uh who inspired and and who are The Architects sevie is an architect of European Gulf he is the man he is he is the Nicholas P like he’s even more than that to them though and so he inspired a whole generation of of players and stuff and you see that in their face and um that’s what I feel like Paul did for us like there was an inspirational aspect to him he had a he had a plan he gave ownership to these groups to to to Phil and to furick and and and to Buu and all these guys he just said man these are your this is your team this isn’t my team this is your team I’m just putting you out there because I trust and believe in you and I can’t wait for you to go out and play you want to talk about inspirational and motivational and so excited to go out there and do it um that’s why we were so successful that week we were completely outmanned that week you know we didn’t have tiger um it was a rookie heavy team and they were in the peaks of their European powers man they were G to come over dominat us I mean you’re talking Sergio and Lee and and Robert Carlson was unbelievable Henrik Stenson was playing great there was just they were just dues everywhere on that team and we just stomped them in the ground because we knew we were just so inspired and so motivated and everyone was together and we were it wasn’t 12 guys together we were just these little groups together and we knew exactly like who we were going to play with all week there was no there there was no guessing it was already built into what we were doing and and that plan has not been reformulated again it has been almost pushed to the side because no one wants to do that again because it had a a catchy name it didn’t have and and the reality is the name of it is just um creating an inspirational area for you to go out there and win because that’s the whole point of it is to go out there and play great and play inspired and play motivated and that’s what I didn’t see from our guys was they W they didn’t look inspired they didn’t look like they just didn’t look like they were nearly at the level like Europe was at a was here and we were just playing down here and it’s because they weren’t asked to to get there Scotty Sheffer wasn’t asked to be more than a golfer that week I need you like in the reality it’s months earlier you know I love Zach to death he’s one of the best people that I know but he needed to go to Scotty and say Scotty I need you to play great that week that’s obvious but I need more than that I need way more than that I need inspiration from you I need inspiration from Jordan I’m goingon to need inspiration from all these guys on the team you’re going to be in charge of this group I’m gonna put you in charge of these guys you know it’s not going to be team captains I don’t need a team I don’t I love Steve Stricker it’s not inspiring anybody right like I need inspir insiration from you I need you to motivate these guys I need you to take charge of this group you know and I just don’t think that was asked of them they were more concerned about you know bonding and hanging out and these are all good guys like it and that’s not what we’re talking about we’re talking about winning the Ridder cup we’re not talking about bonding you know Zach was like I love these guys and we had a great crew and and their real is they didn’t they did have a great crew but it was not a great you know they they were fractured a little bit and we found out about that later and that was really unfortunate because I think most of those guys are are there they are there to win and to be a part of it but they’re just you know there’s such a responsibility the European players feel from the players um the players that sort of set the tone years and years and goes and there’s a responsibility that they believe to take it to the next one to play great and be great and be more than just a great golf for that week it it’s culture man it’s you’re talking about somebody that just harvests some some some kind of culture and I I referred of this all the time Shane Ryan did a great series of does a great series of podcasts for Golf Digest called the I think it’s called the Ridder cup run it might have been rebranded but he has an episode about 1983 or 1985 I forget which one it is and it if you want to talk about the sevie stuff like sevie and I don’t have the exact quotes but in 1983 they at uh PA at um down in Palm Beach the Ridder cup they had the closest Rider cup ever in the modern era in the US uh on the US Turf and the the team was pretty devastated afterwards and sevie like caught him in the locker room everybody’s devastated and crying he’s like this is a victory for us like this is the best we’ve ever done and we will win in 1985 like when we they we go to the B free we will win and like that’s how that night ended was in celebration like and from that moment on like if you want to talk about we had Eduardo malari on talking about uh you know this past week and like SE Jose marel said I would trade in one of my Green Jackets to play in one more Ridder cup like that traces all the way back to creating a buyin back in the 80s that has permeated through that team uh since then and has never the US has had some success in short burst but that has never been harvested or led by anyone the one instance you’re referring to there was just no rollover from asinger into into 2010 and that kind of feel was lost and um it’s real and I I just I I can’t ask enough people about how explaining like all right being inspired I imagine I’ve not played in one of these yet I’m working on it but uh I imagine you can’t just like listen to Metallica and go get pumped up and like go play amazing golf right it’s not an adrenaline test it’s not like who can get the most jacked up to play what does inspiration mean how does it help you play better golf well I think that you know what what Paul did a really good job of it was a slow bleed right it wasn’t it wasn’t that weak of running through a wall it was Phil sat me down after I got picked he sat me down at I think it was a it was like a playoff event or something and he went through this whole list he said we’re gonna win and let me tell you why and he went through this whole list and I I think I told the golf diges guys how important Phil was and Phil kept a lot of these teams together um in a lot of different ways because he is very inspiring and he’s not inspiring by um uh you know running through a wall or or or banging tables or or any sort of speeches he really cares and they they the Europeans they care about this event more than when when when they say that when M says that it says I would happily give up whatever to to play one more to be a part of it right like that I mean they believe that they mean that and you have to just really really you have to get the players to get ownership of the team you can’t just be the leader of them they have it’s like the thing that Paul did was that he was just so energized and so excited about the opportunity and he brought in the people and the fans you don’t get that over there so you have to kind of create it but the reality is you’ve got to put it on the players and say you know find little groups and little paws of of them you know people hated the Pod thing but the reason why it worked is because you’re not out there you know you can’t 12 people can’t bond that week but you need to give the players ownership and say this is your team we’re all going to need to help spiring each other um and it has to be this bleed of of of continuous motivation throughout that whole year and keep everyone’s Minds kind of invested in it the whole time right it it can’t it’s not a onewe thing Europe’s do this all year right they get they get the players and and they call the European tour says get these I want these guys together they need to PIR they need to be playing together they need to see how they play they need to get a feel for one another so when we go to that week everything is laid out and the thinking and the process is done they just go play and they go play aggressive and they go get it right and so they it it man it has to be a big plan and it has to have all these little you know checkpoints of where you’re getting everybody bought in and you get everybody on the exact same page about what they’re going to do and they’re how they’re going to do things in the way that we look going back to it they had this random trip they just went there like three weeks beforeand and then they came back and then they were home for two weeks and then they flew there again and then they flew kind of late it was like none of this was planned I think they just were focusing on the wrong things um and there’s just an unfortunate um you know Club of guys who are just when you just start circling the same stuff over and over and over again it seems to you think it’s going to work at home as it’s going to work the same as it’s there it’s not it’s a completely different animal it’s just completely different and you have to respect that you have to know that and you have to understand that and if you don’t even get to that point which I don’t think anyone really has in a long time you’re gonna you’re in a rough rough spot and I think the European side has sort of figured that out and said okay our our our abilities are right here now before there was there were never now our abilities are right here we’ve got the players we got the youth we’ve got guys coming up so now we have to bring that inspiration that energy and that’s what Luke did and that’s what Rory did when they said we’re going to go to Beth Page and we’re going to win that’s what they’re doing they’re already inspiring and already started again and said this is what we’re going to do and I I thought it was fantastic what they did I thought it was exactly the right thing to do and they’re inspiring those younger guys who played and the guys maybe who just missed out of making that team to be a part of that and I thought that was very very cool and I thought there was exactly the right thing to do yeah and this is where I get again can can twist my brain into a pretzel like all right Madina was the freakiest incident ever and I there’s some stock I put it there’s some things that led to that but I mean reality though the home team has dominated basically going back to 2006 right so uh as as great as Europeans process is like they lost by the widest margin ever in the in the modern Ridder cup uh the last time it was in the US and they got spanked at hazeline right so like you can do all of these things create those culture and all that and still get your ass whooped if you don’t if you don’t have the players like I was there they didn’t have the players they just didn’t it was just one of those kind of crazy years the US it was just like the US was everyone was at the peak of their powers and they were just playing good too like it wasn’t just like they were they had the better players they were all ridiculous like the President’s Cup sort of last year it was like this is a ridiculous team and they’re playing unbelievable right now and and so that was kind of a freak occurrence and that happens and and then the European was like they went through a little bit of a change but now it does feel like they are it’s it’s different going forward they’ve got some they’ve got some studs and that’s where I guess I I get I’m probably putting too much stock in the post press conference and all that but you know we just had witnessed Scotty Sheffer in tears you know the day before and like obviously going through kind of emotions on a golf course that he we’ve never seen him go through or probably has never he never he’s never been through that he has no like that was a it’s hard to describe because the rer cup brings so much to you that you didn’t know you had in you and it’s hard to like he’s like I’ve never felt felt like that before in the golf course like you lose you play bad but it’s like he couldn’t put it in words like the the emotion is all he had left and it was like and um that’s what’s crazy and amazing about the rotic cup and makes so makes it the event that it is but that’s where again I’m I I’m putting too much stock in it and maybe I I should give them more leeway to to get a little time and perspective on this to pull back and come up with a plan but I didn’t see like that that whole thing that that kind of mindset of like all right we know what we what went wrong here and like we’re fired up to go fix this going into the next Ridder cups it just kind of I they kind of throwing their hands up still at the I don’t know how many times we can go do this play over there and lose and just be like well we needed to play better like hey maybe there’s a lot of things in the process that need to change that you know that lead to the US players playing better over there and I it sure sounds to me and it sounded like to me when in that conversation in the airport it sound like you have some interest potentially in getting involved in these teams and you’re laying out a blueprint for for turning this thing around would you want to uh be involved in in US teams in some capacity well that’d be great obviously um it’s something near and dear to my heart and and I loved it I mean I don’t I don’t know if I’m um you know in the game that way I need to be to be a part of the team but um I would love to be you know a part of it in any way I can hopefully I can just commentate if I if the very least do it but but I I I will say is like the perspective that I had was so interesting and it was so different than being um at home and being on the road and seeing it and actually watching it um and sort of hearing about what was going on it gave you a very clear reasoning why they didn’t play well and why the European played so well right like another reason was the European a lot of the guys have played that golf course multiple times the US side never went there and they never they didn’t played it in a an event right and the Europeans have been coming there for years you know Rory’s been there and um U they had a couple guys who have won there in the past so um who was um Matthew Fitzpatrick played there played well so like they had a bunch of guys play there they like like I said the reality is they just wanted it more and they were willing to do things you could say you want to win but what are you willing to do to win the European side is willing to do more to win and they did they went there and they played and they played multiple years to get used to that golf course and see it from a tournament perspective which is very different than just playing practice rounds right um they changed the course quite a bit to fit their needs which I actually I really do like and and like how they like how the home team has control of that um but it is the you know it is the um opposing side to figure out you know maybe the things they can do and figure out how do we um how how are we going to play this golf course to to our needs and to fit our our needs and and and do what we need to do so they did a masterful job of sending up Golf Course to the European side um and then they did go out and and and and play great there’s no doubt about it but the reality is they were just way more prepared than the US side way I mean that thing felt over before when you watch that like one session into this thing it was very clear that they were they just were prepared for everything that was coming their way and and they just looked like they had absolutely no fear about the end result cuz it was already you know it was already determined it’s one of those things too I don’t know how many times I have to learn this lesson but uh somebody who was close to the situation and told me like you should go see the European team room and the US team room like the the level of investment that the teams have put into this like the liter actual structures like the actual actual rooms and yeah the level of detail that’s all you need to know about like how prepared these teams are and I was like ah that was the early part of the week I’m like yeah that’s not worth any points like yeah let’s go play and then it’s like oh [ __ ] man then maybe there uh maybe there is something to to how they have this whole approach to it and all that but um I don’t know it’s fast it’s endlessly fascinating for me um I I I looked at the camera and said I’m not going to predict them to ever win in Europe until they actually do it like I just I’ll miss the first one they do just because it’s like if it I don’t know that one felt like it it should have been I I think I’m good on I think I’m good on home team setup I I don’t know if that needs to be a Contin like there’s so much already working in the home team’s favor uh you know they didn’t like overly manipulate the course but it was just set up to the point where it’s like all right we’re not going to have wedge shots into this into these greens because that’s where the US has an advantage I’m like ah man I kind of think the Ryder Cup should be like a test of overall skills and not just a test of all the things that only benefit you H it be I don’t know it’s like tilting a basketball court in your direction you know I don’t know the Perfect Analogy here other than to say like it just seems like one step too far because we’ve had way too many home blowouts it I think I think it’s okay if you do it you just have to have some sort of time before you should give a little bit like two months or three months or whatever there there should be some sort of like Hey we’re going to set it up this way yeah and then you should have time to adjust it feels like if you do if you do it like you have no idea where the te’s are right and there were so many tea boxes there on those holes right and they took all the par fours that they were even remotely able they’re going to be drivers we’re just going to make it so we’re not going to have any W shots right all the part FS are going to be reachable so we’re not going to have any W shots as you said there’s there were they were basically mid to Long par fours and then driveable par and then driveable par fours and then a couple reachable par fivs there was never an opportunity for players to hit wedges right and then good part threes and stuff so they did a good job I guess the only thing you could say is like you have to kind of set it up and then that week of say this is where the T boxes are are going to be yeah so you can play that right to kind of unload that on Friday and then see it it it does there is a little trickeration to that um but you know it’s yeah I could go both ways on that um no one wants to be the first team to give up the the home the Home Advantage right it’s uh hard thing it’s a hard thing to give up right because you get control and and there there’s a difference there is a difference in the players but um but for the European side for sure because they can go to these golf courses that the the and they have more control over the tour itself for sure so they can the course is going to be there they can have a tournament there right and they can set it up for the next two years and so their guys play it’s on the US side to go over there and to play right like there was an open invitation I’m sure to all those players to go play that event for the last two years and nobody said yes so that’s that is on the players they have to do that right and so um um and it’s going to be harder like I you know I did talk to spe and he’s like boy we had a real opportunity in in in France and in Italy we’re going to Ireland it’s going to be way harder over there for us to win that is going to be a completely different animal because you didn’t get the fans right those European fans that way you’re going to get them th those the great B AR the fans are coming and it’s going to be Ruckus and so you know that’s going to be really really really tough especially off the backs of Beth Page which we know is they’re gonna want some regardless of the result like they’re GNA want some Revenge fan crowd wise yeah it’s gonna be rough I mean it’s GNA be a really really rough week so that’s you know I’ve suggested that they should go with tiger um as the next Captain and then the captain after that so do it for four years that’s what I think should be done I should be the plan um I think he would do it I think he’d relish it I think he’d be great at it yeah I I I’ll trust your judgment on that to say I he’s just I don’t really care who the person is as much as it is just somebody that you know installs kind of what you’ve talked about in terms of buyin and understanding roles and how your role expands Beyond just getting the ball in the hole right like that’s that seems to be a huge huge gap for me um and yeah yeah it’s not a question of if the players can do it or or want to you know I think is it a thing that you know Brooks wants to do I would say no like he’s a guy that’s a really interesting player moving forward does he fit the rder cup model that a John ROM that a Rory that a Justin Rose they they they they bought in and laid into that I don’t see him doing that he’s a little bit more of an assassin y um but I I buy in to Scotty shufford taking in that role saying yes I am capable of doing that you just got to ask of him to do that he’s a young guy um he hasn’t experienced anything like that he’s only played the home ones and he’s like this is great this is fun this is this is easy and then when you go over there you’re like oh wow this is they don’t want us to win they’re screaming at us and yelling at us and and they’re happy we that’s a weird thing new experience it is not normal in golf to experience those things and you have to I think and and you got to ask that of your top players and say you know as I said I I need you to be great but I need you to be in charge and you’re in charge of this group and anyone that’s ever been a part of any team anywhere including work environments like for for us like going if I look back in time um there was there was four of us that were full-time back in 2018 and and Neil didn’t go full-time until 2019 and we were like you know we’re doing okay in 18 but we were all kind of swimming in our own lanes and I wouldn’t we got I don’t know if we you know sometimes not swimming in the same direction and when NE came on board full-time he became like the leader of the group and it it enhanced my performance because I had almost somebody I owed reporting to or something of here’s what I’m responsible for here’s what I need to like it was it changed everything and that wasn’t going to happen without somebody taking leadership and ownership of that part of the process right and we’ve all been much more productive since then and have evolved since from that and that’s where it’s like there has to flow through someone that’s willing to like organize everything and know I had I had Fai that that was going to be the case what did you what did you make of the pay forplay uh stuff was this ever talked about when when you were on any Ridder Cup teams or uh you know you think that was a distraction at all to the US team yeah I mean I I opened my big mouth years ago and got a lot of flat Fort um talking about um some of the uh I think maram and Duval were some of the early guys that t to talk about it and I talked about it to a guy um um and it was the wrong place the wrong time what I said i’ never been part of a team so it was my own you know U negligence and being stupid and young um but it’s a real thing in terms of this is a big event there’s 24 of us playing um they’re making a lot of money off the event I think I think what just you just want a little bit of transparency and to tell us what we’re doing how we’re getting reciprocated for our efforts and and our product that we’re putting out there and where is the money going because I know because it’s not like it just goes into someone’s pocket I mean it it funds the PJ of America it funds all their junior programs and it funds everything that they do it’s just you just want a little transparency when you you don’t know where it’s going and it feels like you’re being taken advantage of a little bit right and so it has come to you know players get it for the charity um and that’s great I think I think it just needs transparency is what I would go back to and just say hey PJ should come in and talk to the players and say hey this is this is um where it goes how we do um these are the things we do for you and just C of lay it out so it’s a little bit you have a better understanding of it I think when you just sort of show up and do it um and you see the size of the tents and you see the merchandise and you see all that stuff you do feel like wait a minute am I getting my sort of fair share and I know people talk about you know uh you get bonuses I get that but in any business when you work you want to get you know you want to get your money for the work that you do so um I I don’t mind the players asking the question I just think a little transparency a little understanding of what’s Happening where it’s going and I think honestly as we all were we’re like we’re on board with that and that’s totally fine we’re good we’re good but um um I think it was a problem this year and I think that was sort of substantiated afterwards like it was an issue it was not when when not everyone is truly there and bought in and ready to go and is there to kind of uh just be there um it’s not a great feeling right you’re you’re going against a giant who’s all in right we talked about we just spend a long I’m talking about they’re all in and you’re not all in and they’re some of your best players and and they play together and you don’t really but there’re also two guys where you see out there playing you’re like well who else do I pair with them are they the guys that I asked to sort of help take charge I mean Patrick’s awesome he’s a he’s he’s he’s in that bricks mold right where they’re just they’re a little bit better individuals and they are sort of part of a group it’s sort of the reality of it yeah because Brooks is he’s he’s an assassin he’s a killer he’s n like he’s just going to like in singles he just mows you down you know and Patrick sort of the same way but like these guys aren’t wrapping their arms around window and saying Hey brother just lean on me all day if you have any problems you have any questions like Justin Leonard when I play with him he just like I just leaned on him that whole week and and I didn’t I played with Phil um Saturday afternoon and he came up to me and just hugging me said I’m to be here all day with you if you ever need anything you ever had a question I’m right here right that’s leadership and that’s like not what you see from the US side you see bonding but you don’t see a guy wrapping their arms around window and saying bro I got you I got you I’m gonna talk you through this all day I’m gonna be with you all day I’m gonna like just you know you’re just like a like a taking care of a puppy like you’re just you know you’re just feeding them confidence feeding them energy it’s like we just didn’t have that right it just you know it just you know and and part of that just you’re just not asking the guys you’re just not asking them of that and I think honestly when you build your team next time you got to take that into consideration like who are my dudes who are gonna take care of the other guys like that’s a real thing to ask and that’s different on US Territory than Europe as well I think totally like the guys you would pick right yes and yeah you need those guys over there you need those those those guys to just help the group and Inspire one and just be like hey you know because like Phil would always come out and say give me the young guys give me the young guys give me Keegan give me Keegan give me Hunter right I got him I’m gonna I’m just gonna work I’m just gonna Coast them along all day I’m gonna talk to them we’re G have a great time right like there’s not many guys that are doing that like you know that’s why I do think tiger is going to be a good leader he he does that he just does it in his own way right but he’s going to take a milit like a militaristic approach of of groups and of common goal but we’re all going to do it a little differently and that’s okay because the goal is to win the goal is not to bond the goal is to find our little groups and you’re going to do it different than this guy so I’m going to put you with him right it might be different than you think but it’s going to work right it’s going to work and and you’re going to trust me because this is a master plan over time not a um of a week yeah I promise we’ll wrap this eventually but it’s just it feels like they what you just described takes pressure off players like you’re playing an environment that is unfamiliar to anything else you’re going to play in your entire professional career and like anything you can do to take the pressure off of that situation and and that’s what I’ve said a lot is it just seems like the US players by their on their in their own way of wanting to win very badly I do not question the desire of that no it’s not a yes almost it’s almost like an American nature to like want to take that on and want to be as tough as possible want to take on that burden and just you’re adding a layer of pressure to yourself instead of a layer of you know kind of uh not spreading that out but almost like understanding not to put too much on yourself and playing for 12 people instead of just trying to dominate on your own performance can can lead to a totally different success level of golf I don’t know it’s it’s it’s what makes it the best event dude I don’t know it’s it’s it’s my favorite to just continually talk about it might be saying the same things over and over but it it really is that interesting but it’s so complex there’s a lot of complexity to it right and and you have to respect that complexity and and that understanding and I think the the European side understands it um heavily they understand the psyche and the motivational and you know they they knew what they had on their team and they usually do a good job of of pumping up like the the the bottom guys used to be we always thought it was their their sort of their their Kryptonite their problem but they’ve done a good job of taking those guys and taking them with like a Justin Rose right and and and Justin’s like I’m gonna get the most out of them get something out squeeze it out of them so by Sunday instead of just saying you’re not gonna play till Sunday no we’re we are gonna play you because we believe in you we have confidence we’re going to give you a Justin Rose who’s also a guy you wouldn’t really truly expect to wrap your arms around somebody but he was a master that week and did a masterful job of just just squeezing all the juice out of them and squeezing all that that you know you could see it in their faces all that um that tension and that nervousness and he just got it out of him to where I’m drawing a blank on who he played with but he was Robert McIntyre McIntyre made huge putts played great great when I watched some tea off on uh it was Friday I’m like this is going to I don’t know what we’re going to get out of him man by Sunday the dude the guy was he was massive on Sunday Saturday afternoon made some huge huge shot so um that’s what you want to see is that that that process grow throughout the week and and they did a masterful job of it is I’m willing to have long believed like the US has an advantage in the fact that they play the President’s Cup in between Ryder Cup and I’m I’m willing to listen to a theory or float a theory that it might actually hurt like one how do you explain the US’s domination in the President’s Cup and and lack of success in the Ryder Cup at least on on road games and two can that add to a level of complacency of you know we don’t need to upend our process we’ve got a good thing going we win everywhere we win the US Rider cups at home we win the President’s Cup everywhere we just lose one of these every four years and is there any complacency that can be gained from the success of the President’s Cup teams um it’s not a crazy idea I think you know we had the one thing we’ve had is consistency um with Fred right I mean we had Jack for a while and then um and then you know Arnold I think Arnold was the guy who started it and then but you had Fred forever and ever and ever and ever so you had the same consistent guy there and Fred’s about the E most easygoing guy you’d ever want to be around and um you know I I had some uh bad pairings I remember played with snaker one year and um I love Brant but we could play in completely different ways and we were not a good pairing it was just he he gets the more energized he gets more pumped up he gets the better he plays I’m sort of the opposite like I can’t play at his speed and his energy it just doesn’t work right um but we able to still win that that presence cup um because I I I think there’s such a lack of um stress you know Fred just doesn’t allow that in his life and so there’s just never you just had all this confidence confence and all this this this history of well we’re going to pull it out we’re going to we’ll find a way and we’ll play well and do it and and the reality for that side is they don’t even speak the same language I mean they have a that is a that is a hard task over there what they had to do and and I hope that theem some of those younger guys um helps because um you know Tom Kim and stuff could maybe be the future of of of that but they have a really hard task I mean it’s not easy at all to what you know you know what Trevor had to do is to get these guys to communicate and sort of work together that that is really really hard but for us to have the same consistent messaging the same kind of guy and just kind of keep it going you know I know he doesn’t do anymore but like it’s that helps so so much and he’s such a good and he leans but he leaned on you know I remember being in in I was eating after one um I was just eating in the hotel and like Fred Phil and tiger walked in and I’m I’m just like and all of a sudden they just start chatting about the next pairings about what we’re going to do and I’m in there like should I be in here I like I left and then they asked my opinion I’m like I don’t know I it sounds pretty good to me whatever you guys think um but he leaned heavily on tiger and he leaned heavily on Phil and like what do you guys feel what do you guys see out there what you know and so there was this um there was still ownership of those top players to understand what was going on and had a pretty good pulse of the team and and what everyone was feeling um but it was just that there was such a easygoingness about what we were doing and how we were playing that week that it was such a it’s such a different vibe than playing in the rer cup and especially playing you know across the pond last one I promise uh and we’ll let you go but I just got back from Roy Melbourne um at the Asia Pacific amateur was it 201 president cup just like Peak golf is that like the most fun you could uh playing Team golf on that golf course and match play in those conditions has to just be the most fun it could possibly be yeah especially coming off like my my 2010 experience and then having to get back in a team event they were letting me have it over there um really yeah and so making that putt um against Jason day and Aaron badley to kind of win the match was one of the best feelings I’ve ever ever had and those are fans who are golf starved and they love it they’ve had an incredible history of incredible players so and that Golf Course is a story this incredible that whole section um sort of the sand belt there is just awesome awesome golf so um that was a knowing that they had won before there was extra motivation um on our side there was motivation on their side um Norman being the captain like all of a sudden it felt like everything was lining up for them Jason day was becoming a real top player in the world an Australian stad so all these things were lining up in their favor and I think that really motivated us and really made us know you know it kept you on your toes that week and like hey we can’t Can’t Get Behind These matches because they could run away from us um and I think everyone kind of you know I had a great partner in Tom’s and and David and I just played awesome we just kind of smoked everybody that week and um it was a great that was a great great win and great experience because that was that was tough that was that was real real challenging and um that was an incredible incredible feat and the fans are they were the perfect balance of of um on their side but also appreciative of golf and the entertainment and we all sort of made up at the end I think they should just be the international presence cup should just be there every year I really I really do think it does feel like that I don’t know it’s magic it is Magic it is it is you know it’s a challenge to go to other places for for that side but you know um the South African was obviously incredible um you know you’d love to see it all over the the world um but there’s something magical about that right it’s like St Andrews it’s like why isn’t that every three years instead of like five it’s like no no that thing needs to be there all the time I mean that thing is just it’s the coolest it’s the best so all right man we can do this anytime you want I absolutely love talking golf with you and I love uh you know U my campaign stickers for you to be uh uh involved in the US Rider Cup team process are arriving at some point I’ll have them shipped out um all over the country could be wearing Hunter Mayhan for Rider cups so uh great talk gol you appreciate your time and we’ll catch up with you soon thanks man