Excitement builds for Epsom | The Front Page | Horse Racing News

In this week’s edition of The Front Page, the team reflect on a remarkable weekend for British trainers at the Curragh and look ahead to this week’s Classics at Epsom.

David Jennings delivers his verdict on Fallen Angel and Rosallion, while he also has his say on short-priced Derby favourite City Of Troy.

Maddy Playle discusses the decision not to press ahead with Sunday evening meetings in Britain following a trial period and much opposition from the sport’s participants.

This week’s show ends with Jonathan Harding considering what the general election might mean for British racing following the collapse of levy talks with bookmakers.

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00:00 – Intro
01:17 – Excitement builds for Epsom
24:54 – Sunday evening racing scrapped
35:08 – Collapse of levy talks
42:30 – Outro

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[Music] hello and a very warm welcome to the front page the show in which we chew over three of the biggest stories from the week that was I’m delighted to be joined in the studio today by Maddie PL Maddie how are you yeah very good Jonathan good to be in here on a sunny bank holiday and uh chewing the fat with yourself and David Jennings exactly right and through the magic of Skype I’m joined by depy Irish edisa David Jennings how are you DJ MADD just gave the game away before you even introduced me she gave the game away Johnny I wanted the big reveal of that we had you along but there we go uh how was the car yesterday uh the C was good actually yeah yeah very enjoyable day um good to see the emergence of white birch as a proper uh group one performer um in the T Sals Gold Cup and two emphatic Group One winners actually because um Fallen Angel was uh was terrific in the 1,000 guine and what’s going on Johnny 40 to Britain in the big classic match Shelton Fields like light years ago you are absolutely dominating us you won’t even give us a kick well soon they’ll be stopping British Runners going over to Ireland we’ve jumped ahead of ourselves a little there with the first talking point today which is DJ talking about those Irish Classics so take it away yeah I suppose we’ll start on Saturday um what a day for Richard Hannon uh I I kind of thought it could be given the the O’Brien quotes leading up to the 2,000 guine and you know he was very very open about like unquestionably he said badly badly needed to run after spring setback h River Tyber was the most forward as he said and did run actually really well and and I suppose answered some some stamina doubts as well River Tyber did and Mountain Bayer needed to run badly as well but um Richard Hannon spotted an opportunity and very much exploited it um real kind of ballsy ride I thought by by Shawn Navy you know it was only an excellent actually color piece by Connor fley in the in the post on Sunday pointed out that you know he he rode for Ado Bry twice in the race and finished last on both occasions um you know feels like a lifetime ago now but probably over a decade ago and uh how his career has changed since going over to Britain and writing primarily for Richard Hannan and it was one of them rights where you’re kind of going oh if this goes wrong it’s going to be you know it’s going to be on him kind of because he was off a pretty seday pace and looked like he had plenty of ground to make up I thought you know certainly early in the home straight two out didn’t know if he was quite going to get there and I know he won by a head but it was kind of a snoke head wasn’t it it was kind of like you know 200 yards from the line it was kind of inevitable hatam is just one of these horses that you just have to love just always turns up runs his race you know he’s turned out to be a far better three-year-old than I thought he was going to be and it just sets up the season perfectly now because you’ve got a St james’ Palace Stakes where you’re going to have rallan against Noble’s Beach the big rematch and then you’re going to troll who I think is going to actually win the race Henry Longfellow in there who’s going to be on something of a recovery mission after his running the French guies where I just thought everything went completely wrong that day for Henry longell so that’s going to be an absolute fascinating race on the first day of Royal Ascot um so yeah fair play to Richard Hannon rosalion loads of speed classy classy merer and then onto Sunday we the 1,000 guiney and it was it was a demolition job really like I said in my report it was over to out like she was stretching right away and Fallen Angel who I always think in New Market in In fairness to Tom seagull price wise in the Racing Post he did point out that you know she was the one that was that was not drawn well that ran on the wrong part of the track and and he actually thought we were too harsh on Fallen Angel for performance at new Amer but I think you’re always going to be harsh when you’ve got a favorite beaten so comprehensively in a in a classic and you just wondered had she trained on from two to three if anything I think she’s got better and the thing that really excites me is seeing her over 10 furlongs because the further she went yesterday the further away she was going from them and it was like it was real cozy like really cozy inside the the final 100 yards or so so she’s she’s Top Class um I think obviously it goes out saying I think Stevie Wonder would know that the the the horse to take out the race was oper singer um aen o’b was honestly shocked at how well she ran I know people will be screaming at their screens at the moment saying how could he be shocked shocked she was nearly favored or she was second favored and she was favored all week how could he be shocked she finished third he could not believe how well she ran he couldn’t believe it he was astonished and you can read like his his his post quotes about opera singer she was obviously a good bit behind after her setback to forc her to Miss New Market so you know she’s going to be fascinating I think the coronation Stakes is next for her doesn’t look like Fallen Angel is going to go to the coronation Stakes it looks like Fallen Angel might go to the to the French Oaks and she’s going to take the world to beat in that I couldn’t imagine her not being fav than that and uh I’d be surprised if she’s beaten in it so it’s going to be interesting opera singer obviously could still be a star Philly this season and she goes to coronation six but as I said at the start of the show we’re in times for Irish flat racing 4 nil to Britain I think the last time it happened was it that that the first two Classics were won by Britain was it 2004 Maddie it was perfect perfect segue DJ um that was the main talking point for me Jonathan um and I can I can gloat a little bit I can give DJ a bit of stick um because yeah first time since 2004 since the British trainers won both the 2000 and the 1,000 uh Irish guine at the Kura really interesting as well because we had three consecutive winners on Saturday um you had candleford winning for William haggus you had uh us winning the big sprint also and then of course rosalion who we’ve already spoken about um that was a a ballsy ride as DJ touched upon a fantastic performance you kind of knew with the the class that the horse had he was always going to reel in his stablemate harm who I’ve just fallen in love with a little bit because he’s so consistent and he’s done what no one really expected him to do um but it was an exciting performance which teed up a a really nice Royal Ascot cracker and that’s what we want we want these different form lines uh throwing up questions and questions will be answered at the Royal meeting next month um as for the 1,000 ginies It Was a Race that was dictated to by Pace largely and Fallen Angel was at the front of Affairs and and dominated really throughout um as DJ’s touched upon I really like the Run of opera singer I thought um Aid br’s comments the whole way through indicated that you know this wasn’t her moment and I think we’re going to see hugely improved performances from her throughout the season she’s got all the fancy entries and I’d be surprised if she went anyway other than forward from that effort that third place effort um under ran Moore on Sunday um the one to take out the race for me DJ was saying it was really really obvious um I thought the seventh queen of Thunder at a massive price 125 to1 she went straight into my tracker uh I will be supporting her wherever she runs next travel really strongly hit a bit of trouble in running when she was switched and then ran on really nicely to be beaten just six lengths in the end yes I’m sure she wasn’t the only one in the field who um produced a performance that made you sit up and go she’s better than that but she’s definitely better than that and I would definitely suggest that you put put her in your Racing Post tracker that’s queen of Thunder there you go come along for the tips as well and obviously two really impressive British winners there will we have British winners of The Oaks on Friday and the derby on Saturday DJ yeah potentially um it’s going to be like oh I just can’t I just wish it was tomorrow the Derby because um you know last year obviously with a G through then there was a similar type of buildup to the derby but I don’t think it was on the same scale of city of Troy yes ad o’ Bryan biged up AUST Ren you know leading into his three-year-old career but I don’t think he did to the same extent of city as as he did city of Troy like the stuff he’s been saying a b city of Troy that he’s different to any horse he’s ever trained and that he never gets tired all that kind of stuff was just it was like a little bit above all the other stuff he was saying for for AUST Roden so this is like if you are a racing fan in any way shape or form even if you’re predominantly jumps racing the derby on Saturday is going to be in one way or another the most fascinating race of 2024 because you’ve got a horse here who has been built up to be an absolute Superstar and ran like a seller on his previous race like it could like for for like I’m not working as Epsom on Saturday but for Lee Mo said and whoever else I don’t know if you’re working there Johnny or Maddie whoever is working at Epsom on Saturday like this is why you get into race and journalism for a day like Saturday where one way of the one way or the other you’re going to get this massive story because he’s either going to win or he’s not going to win and it’s a massive Story one way or the other like you’re completely like I see city of tro is short to seven to four and some places like you’re completely and utterly placing your faith in Aiden O’Brien here completely backing the trainer rather than the horse because when that horse ran at New Market straight after the race I could not believe he was only 7 to one I wouldn’t have backed him at 70 to1 now he’s 7 to four never mind 7 to1 now he’s 7 to four yes all the dangers have gone by the wayside and it’s not going to be a vintage Derby but this is a Monumental task to bring this horse back from what he showed at at at New Market and and yeah look we we’ve heard the excuses and I know people think they’re watery excuses but he is pretty adamant with the excuses that the heartbeat raised up to such a high level going into the Stalls that he never got a breeder and then he raised on the one Bret for the first three furlings of the race um look if if if he’s right it’s going to be unbelievable do I think city of TR win the Derby I don’t I really don’t like this is completely after time and now but I did think AUST Ren would win the Derby last year just thought the ground I thought the excuse for austo Den was better than the excuse for city of try like last year in New Market the gr was bottomless was a mess of a race it’s worked out to be possibly or probably the worst 200000 guies of all time if you take out um AUST Ren and and city of Troy or AUST Ren and little big bear out of the race like it’s it’s worked out shocking like absolutely shocking like even see royal Scotsman the other day he was really really poor in the Locking um so I think this is a bigger ask for for city of Troy I I don’t think he’ll win but I don’t know what’s going to beat him um I think Los Angeles who they don’t hold in the same caliber as city of Troy but if you were just to look at them I was in lepers when he won his trial like he is he is exactly what you want a Derby winner to look like he’s imposing he’s strong he’s gorgeous color he’s just if you were to pick a Derby horse just on looks I would say it would be Los Angeles he’s exactly what you want whether he’s good enough and whether he’s quick enough is the is the biggest question because he looks like just doesn’t do anything in a hurry but um you know you’re going to need to stay uh look it’s going to be fascinating as regards The Oaks on on on Friday I do really fancy Philly and the ools I fancy aelia for for ger weld thought she won the salable stakes you know when she probably wasn’t finally tuned for her comeback I thought she always was going to make a smash and three-year-old and um Derm weld is a master at getting Phillies to progress as they get older uh the for wasn’t really F franked by purple ly who was second in souville stakes in the 1,000 ginies on on on Sunday but she she still ran reasonably well I think is Alia is just a Philly who’s you know she’s nicely balanced she’s a strong stayer she’s a good attitude um for me she’s one of the better bets over the two days of EP might be very much in the aelia camp and Maddie over to you which camps are you in for the The Oaks and Darby they both to me just on a broader point they both look really wide open this year we’ve got two fairly short price favorites but there’s question marks over both of them yeah that’s what makes it interesting in a way I I don’t think it’s the most compelling Derby and Oaks we’ve had I see DJ’s point in that the city of Troy willly wony thing is is fascinating how could you not be compelled Mar how could you possibly not I’m compelled by the the city of Troy conundrum but I just don’t think there’s that much strength in depth to either race um and I guess DJ my Approach is wanting to take on these favorites I’m finding it really difficult to know where to go um because I don’t like them but I don’t really like anything that’s coming up against them either um ultimately in the The Oaks I came down well in both races actually I came down on Rafe Beckett um in the Oaks you got to me I think is the one who is overpriced who won the lingfield trial um understandably there’s a train of thought that she bossed that race and dominated it due to the the pace but I think given her pedigree and given her position in the market she probably deserves to be a little bit shorter um you know I like like the idea that she could just go off out in front again and get a really nice run of the race um so I think she’s quite a big price and then again Rafe Becket he knows what it takes to to train classic winners at Epsom and I think MC Duff’s a bit of a sleeper in the derby Market second and behind Arabian Crown in the Sandown trial you can bet your bottom dollar this horse is going to be produced right for the day um and he is a big price too but uh yeah there’s so many imponderables I mean I quite like Diego Velasquez and DJ’s suggesting that he probably not going to run um they’re not going to be huge Fields they’re going to be interesting Fields so I’m I’m looking forward to it but I I don’t think there’s going to be loads and loads of really Top Class horses coming out of both races this year maybe and DJ if you’re somebody who’s quite likes the idea of backing an aen O’Brien horse is there any reason to be concerned at all by his sort of record in the classics so far this season I mean he’s a very high bar with setting Aiden O’Brien but that’s his own fault for all his success they have it’s not that they been running badly he just hasn’t won one yet yeah and uh I have a feature with Aiden in the racing post on Thursday um so I don’t want to divulge too much but he has adopted a different approach in recent years and he he explains why he’s adopted a different approach because he says the the flat season now is not like the flat season of 10 years ago it goes on to he was used in kind of Dubai almost in March as the end of the season and you know with Hong Kong and all the different various different places the Breeders Cup and the season is so long now that if you have these horses Cherry ripe there you go again you can’t say ripe without saying Cherry ripe for some reason it’s one of those words you just can’t say on its own but uh he is never going to have his horses Cherry ripe for the two guies at New Market because he feels if he has them peing then there is no way they can PR throughout the season and it was fascinating listening to him and just that different approach and how it’s it’s building up building up building up to a crescendo I suppose it is a little bit like Willie Mullins over jumps you know Willie Mullins doesn’t Target that down Royal meeting in in in November and Gordon Elliot does um and you often see at the start of the Season we kind of go oh God I wonder is Willie got the team we thought he had this season because you know he hasn’t had a great October November’s been pretty quiet and even that you know Royal Bond haton Grace d at fairy house it’s a meeting that that that Gordon Elliott dominates more than Willie Mullins and that’s early December but that’s because chelam is a March punches town is in April and he is wants his team to to stay and to progress throughout the season so that’s a different approach by Aden O’Brien he obviously would have loved to have won a classic by now there’s four gone and he’s Zero from four and I did a column last season in September saying that this was the best bunch of B juveniles last season’s Bunch since 2001 when high Shel hauling Johannesburg all them came out in 2001 all at the same at the same time from the same place and I said basically that that city of Troy Henry Longfellow Diego Velasquez uh River Tyber unquestionable I thought those five were on a par potentially with the five that I’ve just mentioned there and uh at the moment it’s looking like not for the first time I’m completely wrong but there’s still time for that to be right and uh it will need to start with city of Troy winning the derby on on Saturday um I think the O’Brien horses are just going to start to turn a corner now that we get into June A Midsummer into the Autumn I think it’s going to be just business as usual for Bal doy yeah it’s shaping up to be an interesting race MADD and there’s been two other sort of talking points this week one relating to a jockey change uh yeah Callum shepher of course no longer going to be on ambient friendly um RAB havlin who’s having an incredible time of things obviously won the lock in John audience and then I was at Sandown the other night when he enjoyed another big success on Sweet William who of course um his owner Philip a coopa likes him to ride those horses and not the stable jockey which was Frankie Dorian is now Kieran schar so RAB havins had a whirlwind couple of weeks uh and he’s now going to ride the the lingfield Derby trial winner and the impressive one at that um but I must comp confess I was really you know we’re used to seeing these changes happen a lot and of course it’s the owner’s prerogative but I was really disappointed by by this I think a lot of people share those sentiments um callums a really talented upand cominging jockey done absolutely nothing wrong on the horse in fact I thought he rode him brilliantly at lingfield to me there was just absolutely no reason to take him off the horse I believe he’s got a better winning record then Ram havlin has got at Epsom anyway um and although yes you want an experienced ride dur in the derby um you know we’ve seen this happen so many times before you know Tom maronda was jocked off English king for Frankie Dori rarely does it ever seem to make the difference and I just think loyalty and giving people a chance are qualities that I really like to see in in Top Class Sport and I think it’s a shame that we’ve not been allowed to see that happen but in other news it was really good to see Callum uh aboard one of his Flagship horses uh last week on Isle of Jura at Goodwood um and I actually backed that horse for the Melbourne cup at 50 to1 uh I think that’s a really really good bet and uh it’s interesting that in a season where callum’s clearly had a big ride taken away from him it’s good that he’s still got another huge ride who has already taken him all over the world Bahrain principally where he won the Triple Crown but hopefully this is a horse who can take him right up to to group one level on a regular basis um love that horse love the Loyalty The Connections have shown him um and it’s just a shame we won’t be able to see him in the derby but that said best of luck to RAB and uh yeah ambient friendly he’s a fascinating Contender I know Paul key Fanci him a lot uh so we’ll have to see how he gets on they’re on ground watch I believe at the minute yes you know the thing that um baffles me about um about this whole losing the ride in the derby to rap havin like if you like just say this is probably a stupid example but it’s just the first thing that came into my mind right if you had Pep Guardiola just say in a Champions League final the one thing he would be defin any manager I’ve played on there at any level of you know be it underage or when I played adult football the one thing they emphasize always when you get to a final is that it’s just another game we have to treat this match exactly the same as all the others that got us in this position in the first place so you know that’s how you you instill confidence in your team by just telling them look whatever you did in the semi-final we’re going to do exactly the same in the final just because the the word final is there doesn’t mean it’s any different you still have to do the same thing it’s still the same it’s still 90 minutes it’s still whatever and this is what I don’t get about the Derby like this the the ambient friendly Camp have brought all this attention on themselves and said you know it’s the Derby we need more experience from Robert havin I I just think it’s absolutely Bonkers um nothing to do with either either jockey but if I if I was James fhaw and I was the who are fantastic supporters of the game and you know this is you know I don’t want to be criticizing them too much because I think they’re you know they’ve been brilliant over the years with some fantastic horses but like I would be saying to myself right we’ve won a trial we’re second favor for the Derby let’s keep effting the same let’s whatever we did going into lingfield let’s let’s keep it the same let’s not draw attention to ourselves let’s just it’s just another game it’s just another race yes it’s a derby yes it’s massive but it’s just another race I don’t get this hole it’s the Derby everything has to change we need a new jockey we we need to do everything differently because it’s the Derby it’s just another race Lads I think as well you have to ask the question how much you risking by introducing a new relationship into the mix you know Callum clearly knows this horse very well has a good relationship with him and yes we’ve seen uh RAB riding ambient friendly out on the gallops but is that like for like when you’ve you know helped produce a horse all the way through and ridden him regularly at home I’m not sure I totally agree with DJ and I said on on X at the time I think it was a nonsense decision and I I stand by that on the subject of nonsense decisions DJ I think you might have a view on the plans to extend the Derby Festival to a week yeah yeah um yeah I’ll choose my words wisely here look we need to be condensing the best talent into making you know a spectacle as good as as it can be be and at the moment personally I think your two days at epim on Friday and Saturday are you know dripping with quality and if you’re going to extend this out to 7 days you’re going to get so many people losing interest and the the cards that make up the other days are just going to be poor quality and what we need around our big festivals is to increase the quality and reduce the number of days not increase the number number of days and reduceed the quality it’s the complete opposite of what we should be doing like we’ve been screaming about chent for so long that it needs to go back to three days which it never will but we’ve been screaming pleading with the authorities to condense the quality into a shorter program and now it seems at Epsom we’re looking for this 7day Carnival if if rumors are to be believed or whatever the report suggest and like it’s just I I don’t know I don’t know what you guys think but I just think it’s exactly the opposite of what we need to be doing and it’s B whether it’s going to happen or not I don’t know but just imagine what the cards on five of the days are going to be like given the horse population like it’s going to be pro quality we’re going to have fans losing interest and I think they need a big big rethink because it’s exactly the opposite to what I’d be doing yeah and plans are still up in the air I think what’s sort of been provisionally looked at and Lee mentioned this in his his column is uh having it on a having one of the race days on a Saturday perhaps The Oaks followed by the coronation cup card on a Wednesday with the derby on a Saturday so it would it wouldn’t be that much more racing but I think your point still stands if you’re thinking of having a bet at Epsom this week either in the Oaks or the Derby you’ve had tips for both there please do check out our Free Bet offers moving on to our Second Story Maddy what have you got for us yes so controversial um story welcome news to a lot of participants in racing is that Sunday evening racing uh it was announced last week that it will be scrapped there was a six meeting uh all weather trial and it was it’s been abandoned due to lack of punter engagement and so much negative feedback and negative press from uh members of the weighing room from stable staff from a lot of trainers as well um the the main point really I suppose is that in order for these meetings to be seen as feasible they had to outperform um midweek floodlit Mee meetings by 15 to 20% um which it didn’t do it didn’t achieve that um there were fluctuations some performed better than others um but like for like turnover was down 3% which is obviously fairly significant um it’s worth mentioning there’s a lot of negativity around this story and that’s understandable given the pressures on Racing’s Workforce and you know Sunday evenings being very traditionally a social time a time to be spent with families Etc and you’re already talking about and industry that operates in incredibly unsociable hours and you have to be incredibly flexible um but there were extra payments and one of the main pluses in theory of Sunday evening racing was the increased prize money but ultimately those two things didn’t uh achieve the balance and weren’t sufficient enough to see this trial um be a success uh as I say one of the main threads of of this story was the the negative feedback from the jockeys um you wrote a story I believe about a of the jockies basically saying that they would never support it um which is just pretty damning really um I know anecdotally that certain jockeys um although overall they may have disagreed with the concept it provided them with an opportunity to earn some more money as I say there were there were pretty hefty bonuses um and depending on their individual situations it it it gave them an opportunity to earn more money and they weren’t necessarily against it for that reason but ultimately it was never enough for it to be an overall positive overhaul and uh for these meetings to be implemented fulltime um I think this is good news to most most people who have been engaged with this story because of as you’ve um touched upon in your story The the opposition to it was so strong and and so um ferocious um and I think there are things that we can learn from it though and I think it’s the BHA have come out since said they’re not scrapping the idea all together um I don’t think realistically it’s going to be considered again for uh a long time given that it failed to do what it set out to do and with just six meetings you have to ask yourself well if it’s only taken six meetings for them to understand that this is not going to be uh a solution to some of Racing’s problems then that speaks volumes um but at the same time you know the B have vowed to to gather all the dat that they can from this trial period and ultimately the more we can learn about our fixtures the more we can learn about uh how much Levy income they’re going to generate the more we can learn about our Workforce and the staffing issues in British racing the better um and the horse racing industry people board are going to try and address the data and um the staff shortages um because Callum Shepard who we’ve just spoken about was among uh one of the members of the weighing room talking about pressure on staff and the fact that you know we’re a very stripped back industry as it is and we demand a lot from our Workforce um and we just can’t cater for these Sunday evening meetings um yeah for me personally I think this is definitely a good thing I’m not saying that there aren’t positives we can reflect on I’m not saying there’s not lessons we can learn I think to try and be more positive there definitely are um but at the same time it just didn’t seem a good idea it’s proven now not to be a worthwhile idea in terms of uh the money it’s going to generate and the punting engagement is going to have and how the participants feel about it um so I think it’s a good idea that ultimately the BHA have listened to um the feedback they’ve received and the data that they’ve gathered we have to try things in this game you know we we come on this show every week and we talk about racings downfalls and failures um and may be a bit more of that in just a moment’s time but uh we have to try and innovate and try new things so it’s it’s good that there was a trial period given much like Premier isation the game is seeking to uh improve its standing and its situation um but also to cut its losses and go do you know what that didn’t work fine we’ll move on we’ll try again and I think that’s what’s happened with Sunday evening racing but I for one you know speaking to a lot of racing participants on a daily basis whether it’s trainers um friends stable staff people who work in the industry in any capacity um um you know we know how hard they work and I think a Sunday evening off and the knock on effects that has not only on people working in the yards but then in terms of how they resource the rest of the week per se um I think this is just a good move and um it’s right that people have been listened to because they are the lifeblood of our Sport and we need to support them now more than ever no absolutely and I’m probably similarly to you quite torn always between my default position is let’s try something new because I know it is going to take sort of radical ideas outside the box thinking to try and push racing into a position where it is more financially secure and more of a sort of viable and interesting proposition commercially DJ were you surprised at all by just the the strength the feeling against these Sunday evening cards or um was it fully Justified but surprised as they am when they stepping away in Scales Johnny uh no wasn’t surprise at all um we do need new ideas but we don’t need stupid ideas um this baffled me from the world go to be honest with you um like you can’t have racing and I know we can’t think about the stable staff totally like they’re not 100% of of what needs to be thought about but like this was one area where we did really need to think about them and I think to ask them to to work on Sunday nights and Sunday evenings like they’re not doing five days a week anyway and to add this extra burden on top of them it was never going to work and I think we often maybe don’t give enough consideration to stable staff and to you know the people who the heartbeat of the sport like we don’t treat them with probably the respect that we should because you know we’re thinking of ways of of making money and ways of of growing the industry but you can’t grow the industry without the people who are making the industry and yeah we tried it and fair enough like Well Done For Trying things and it didn’t work and and you know K us to those for for you know pulling the plug on it quite early but um it was never going to work it was never like I know betting wise and I’ve read all the different views on the subject and how Sunday evenings are prime betting times but this was just one thing that I think the actual the the the stable staff outweighed the the betting demand almost so um I I’m glad they’ve pulled the plug on it um you know as you said you know we need new ideas we need Innovation we need clever Innovation um this was one thing that just didn’t work was never going to work the Vibes were very very bad from the outset and yeah yeah no I’m glad it’s I’m glad it’s gone in a way I was quite surprised that they failed to perform as remarkably as they did in not reaching that 50 to 20% um out performing of the the other floodlit meetings and I guess the question is why and does this link back to lessons we can learn and is It ultimately about how we’re packaging racing is it promotion um I think certainly with more promotion more awareness of some of Racing’s initiatives it could probably be driven more and perhaps be more successful so that’s maybe something that I was surprised by that they did sort of fail so spectacularly and maybe it’s it’s about how these things are communicated rather than necessarily how the bare bones of the initiative work what do you think yeah I’d agree I think of all the metrics I thought Sunday evening racing was going to fail on I didn’t think it would be betting turnover I thought it would be staff wellbeing I thought it would be jockey participation I thought it would be field sizes I thought it would be any number of those things as tendances certainly not betting turnover cuz I thought the logic was reasonably sound in that this is a pretty open window where people are engaging with sport generally can we get them to come and have a bet on racing it it seemed fairly it’s quite worrying isn’t it the fact that as you say this is this is a point that would make sense for people to to engage with with punting on racing and they haven’t I think it’s a limited is sample size um that’s not to say I’m supportive I think they’ve made absolutely the right call knocking it on the head but it is difficult to draw any sort of massive conclusions I think the other factors just completely outweigh the potential benefit from betting turnover in that it doesn’t work from a staff well-being point of view the jockies aren’t really interested um so yeah that one has been consigned to history for now they have BHA is open to having a look again as it ought to be but when that will be we don’t know another thing that has been consigned to history is the negotiations between uh BHA and betting on Levy reform again at least for now so if you might have noticed a fairly sizable bit of political news on Wednesday rishy soona came out got very wet and announced that there will be a general election on July 4th now what does that mean for racing in the immediate aftermath of the election it was confirmed that the long running negotiations between the BHA and the betting industry through the betting gaming Council the BGC had essentially collapsed now that was followed by a war of words really the BHA chief executive Julie Harrington accused the betting gaming Council of rening on a deal that was on the table while the BGC said look nothing’s agreed till it’s all agreed and we weren’t quite at that point it’s a very difficult situation that British racing now finds itself in because it was almost relying on the government to pressure the betting industry to come to a deal with racing the government had set a deadline of last week it was basically banging their heads together and saying right you need to come up with a deal or we’ll intervene there’s not going to be a parliamentary solution to this so work out amongst yourselves essentially and what we have now is after months and months of hard work behind the scene and negotiations a situation where we don’t really have anything there is no certainty there is no Levy deal that’s been signed off the importance of that is that it was really pitched by the BHA and indeed the government as almost a a counter to the potential damage likely to be caused by the government’s white paper most notably affordability checks British racing had hung its hat on the fact that while there will necessarily not necessarily while there will be some damage caused by affordability checks the scale of which we still don’t quite know we will have Levy reform to at least patch up some of that and offer some sort of regeneration to British Racing’s finances now we are just in a complete mess where we don’t have that situation we might now have a completely new government if you’re to believe the Po’s a labor government from July 4th following that general election in short an awful lot of uncertainty after an awful lot of talking a lot of finger pointing and British Racing’s no clearer on where it stands with potential Levy reform Maddie an awful lot to unpack there it’s not the first time we’ve been here with this these sort of discussions going on behind the scenes between British racing and book makers it’s another blow to British Racing’s final answers of course it is uh you know the levy is such an integral part of how British racing is run and these talks were going to be key into at least understanding where we could be um financially on on one hand through that perspective and now they’ve collapsed you know these are it’s going to have major major consequences uh it’s just a a an absolute disaster really for racing and the fact that now not only have there there not been an agre greement reached but we’re talking about you know a a a switch in government in July if we’re led to believe those polls um that’s going to bring with it as you say more uncertainty um more delay uh and that’s not what British racing needs at this time when it’s facing a catalog of problems one of which who mentioned is the affordability checks um I guess another point to bring into play is you know uh traditionally labor has has had a slightly rockier relationship with uh gambling than the conservatives but on the same front how much more damage can be done to British racing at this stage um and it’s impossible to know what our industry would look like under a labor government at this stage so it’s just really difficult to know the direction of travel in in British racing and um the government position on it at the moment because these talks have collapsed and now we’re talking about you know having a wholesale switch um of those in power so it it’s a challenging time and this is not good news for racing at all and and how important is that Outreach to labor MPS I know the BHA has been accused of being perhaps being a little bit slow Off the Mark there in reaching out to potential labor MPS how important is it that they are now on the front foot I mean so important you know these are people who are going to be helping make incredibly important decisions about the future of of British racing and we need to engage them and make sure that they are understanding of the sports situation and uh in a position to be able to work towards a a better future for British racing so um these relationships absolutely need to be considered um and I think yeah it be fair to say so far that that we’re not necessarily in a totally comfortable position with that either um it’s it’s just a a really really important time for British racing with discussions going on at the moment with the white paper with the levy reform that’s you know this this deadline’s not been reached it’s been passed and now there’s just so much more uncertainty up in the air so um this doesn’t spell great news but as we often say on this show Jonathan it’s going to be a case of waiting to see uh what happens absolutely and DJ you’ve been watching from afar I know Ireland has its own uh little permutations going on with gambling law and what that might mean for the racing industry but what’s your take on and what’s been happening in Britain yeah it’s obviously a backward step you know when you hear Julie Harrington saying that um you kind of felt that there was kind of progress happening beh behind the scenes and and now it’s like bang it’s like right that’s the end of that um and it’s just this uncertainty again and I think that’s the that’s the buzz word at the moment in racing isn’t it uncertainty and this just adds further f to the uncertainty um worrying uh disappointing and God the next year in racing God imagine like if we’re doing this show in 12 months time if I was going to say if any the three of us havn’t been sacked by then we’re probably I’m the only one in last running H but like imagine doing the show in 12 months time and you know the 27th of May 2025 like the the landscape of racing we’re going to know so much more about the future of racing like it’s going to be completely different and you know we’re really a crunch time in Britain and in Ireland like with this gabblin regulation bill in Ireland like we’re you know it’s it’s at the stage now where our worst fears are are basically coming true so um it’s going to be a big big couple of months from from now till the end of 2024 um you know if if you’re not worried you should be you really should a sobering thought for a bank holiday Monday front page of course if you are wanting to keep up with the latest on Levy reform the latest news and opinions the behind the scenes of those negotiations then there are pieces in the works and you should sign up to members Club ultimate for all the best journalism comment from Maddie DJ myself and many others besides as well as top tipping as well heading into Epsom this weekend get 50% off your first 3 months in the Racing Post members Club as a member but you get access to the digital newspaper exclusively available to members the night before you’ll get daily tips on the likes of pricewise Tom seagull Robbie Wilders and Paul Keeley enjoy award-winning journalism from the industry’s best writers and watch replays from all British and Irish racing now available within the Racing Post app subscribe today and get 50% off your first 3 months All That Remains is for me to decide which story goes on this week’s front page Sunday evening racing of course a Hot Topic in recent weeks the levy reform and all things government and affordability checks will continue to roll on but in the interest of protecting The Prestige of the Derby and given DJs enormous excitement about it this week and indeed our I will be giving the winning story on our front page to David Jennings a fist bump there from DJ A fitting way to end the show thank you to my guests Maddie DJ I’ve been Jonathan Harding please be sure to join us again next week for another edition of the front page