Matt Parrino Talks Bills, Live From Casey’s Black Rock

On this episode of Talking Buffalo, Patrick Moran is talking Buffalo Bills and plenty more with Bills beat reporter and popular podcast host Matt Parrino in a conversation recorded live from Casey’s Black Rock in Buffalo.

From the time the Bills lost in heartbreaking fashion to the Kansas City Chiefs in the AFC divisional playoff round through last month’s NFL draft and up til now, it’s been an eventful offseason for the Bills–one of change. Matt helps Patrick navigate through it all, highlighting what he thinks the front office has gotten right and a few opportunities missed. Would Matt pull the trigger on trading Stefon Diggs right now were he Brandon Beane if he knew how the position would be handled since dealing away Buffalo’s top receiver over the past four years.

Patrick also asks Matt if he thinks the Bills made a mistake releasing Mitch Morse instead of redoing his contract, how he feels about the Bills 2024 draft haul now that he’s had some time to reflect, what direction the Bills offense may be headed in and his reaction to people’s overreactions on the Chase Claypool signing. That plus some talk of Buffalo summer, wings and much more.

A huge thank you to Casey’s Black Rock for their hospitality and having us do the show there. They truly are not just one of the most underrated spots in town for killer wings, but a great place to relax and have a drink with some awesome decor and vibes throughout the bar—even if it’s a Kansas City Chiefs backer bar!

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all right what is going on everybody how you doing welcome to another episode of talking Buffalo your weekday daily driver for Buffalo Sports Talk and more my name is Patrick Moran thank you for everyone watching who’s listening if you’re watching us on the video side I am live here at Casey’s Black Rock in Black Rock and I joined by my special guest a regular when I have these type of shows M Perino man what’s going on dude you usually got the number handy what is this what is this number nine number 10 I don’t even know where we’re at right now yeah we’re live the own they want somebody to be able to play darts go ahead man you gotta play darts I’m actually bummed that the darts isn’t happening in the background I know I was saying it there’s people out there but this is almost we were just talking for a few minutes almost eerily quiet here for a a live show because we’re kind of tucked in the back here by ourselves where all the customers are up and I’m seeing people that I know walking in here right now I haven’t seen that man in 5 years anyway welcome everybody that was uh a little bit of a weird start but that’s what happens when you do these live shows gotta be ready to adapt yes and recover so recover we’re recovering all right we’re recovering let’s talk about these Wings first I wanted to come here for a reason I’m now known as the Imperial guy because I do so many shows here and I love Imperial know as the wiut you’re the wing nuts guy love wing nuts it’s just nice to be able to get out somewhere and and go somewhere different and this is without question one of my favorite neighborhood buers in all of Western New York this is the epitome of what I think a neighborhood buer should be oh 100% And you know Vinnie I’ve known him for years actually this was if not the first site of a live show that I did um one of the first shows and so every time I come in here it’s just it brings back memories of like the early days before I was doing a show with Ryan talet every single week I got a funny story about it’s amazing and the wings are delicious we just crushed 20 what was they medium hot medium hot yeah yeah and they’re on point every time they don’t miss consistent traditional wings it’s a tough game to be playing in Western New York and I feel like Vinnie plays it just about as well as anybody you know what’s funny so for people on the technical side here five minutes before we started the show I have headset mics and I’m like we ain’t going to need them it’s all quiet and dead back here literally we get the camera rolling and now it’s cooking back here which is good though I’m starting to feel the vibe a little bit here thing welcome to the party pal I don’t do that in lot of shows and Wing nuts on those Saturday nights well you’re used to this they are absolutely so this is just like second nature let’s go wing nut shows are fun because you interact with the fans you give them an opportunity to go up uh we’ll talk about that but I want to bring up a story that you mentioned specifically here I remember it was four I had to look it up so I had you on a show here live from Casey’s but it was only audio I didn’t even have video at the time and that was in December of 2019 that was so roughly four and a half years ago wow and what I remember about that show isn’t even so much the show itself that was the first time I had wings here by the way and and they were [ __ ] amazing I remember that but excuse the language but what I remember about that show specifically is we were sitting here talking afterwards and you kind of told me like I got a little bit of a secret to tell you and it was that you were getting ready to start a podcast like you were you were the wheels were in motion right for you starting your podcast which would become shout of course and now you know one of the most popular podcasts out there but at that time last time we hooked up here at Casey’s that was just still a thought in your head like you were starting to go through like I said the process of putting it all together it’s funny to think back to what I wanted it to be or what I kind of envisioned it being and what it’s actually turned out to be it’s better than I ever imagined it’s like it’s turned into something and when we were starting like Ryan and I were still kind of in the infancy of our partnership on the beat like how we cover the team and so projecting what we were going to be like in a in like a weekly episodic Sports podcast was it was just a complete Dart thrw like ironic since they’re right next to him and luckily I mean we hit I hit the bullseye with the with the guy that I get to do it with he’s so we’re so compatible in so many ways it can’t just be like the it’s weird that you guys are because you guys are totally compatible but it’s almost weird how because Ryan is a great dude but kind of like in a weird comedic type of way hisor we’re different guys but we share a lot of like we have similarities in the sense that we’re both very family oriented and we both like love talking about the bills like it’s our our passion it was our passion before we did it professionally and I think like we’ve always kind of shared that part of it and like he’s a teacher my wife’s a teacher now a principal and like we have so many similarities I love his family we just have connected from the beginning and that VI sometimes like the people that you you become closest with aren’t the people that you would have projected yourself to be best friends with necessarily but they’re the people that like compliment you the best how boring would it be if you know the person I think is the most like me I spend all my time with all the time like I don’t like myself that much it’s just crazy to think how much has changed in four years for you personally again you were kind of uh you you were Rel you’re relatively new in this market as a bills reporter at least anyway and we were talking about this over Wing Siri Casey’s before the show the turnover is starting to come guys like yourself that you know five years ago were new wish on this beat are becoming the grizzled veterans of sorts because like just say over the last year or so I mean Howard Simon’s retired from wgr just recently Adam bini is semi-retired for the most part from Channel 2 um now news has come out about M you know leaving his gig and retiring after three decades so it’s like the people that have been around forever they’re exiting for various different reasons and now guys like yourself and like maybe hockey side faor and Joe Balia a lot of you know people not new but new wish it felt like five years ago new wish now you guys are becoming I I don’t want to call you old buddy but you know kind of like the old guard here of of the Buffalo me stop 42 this year stop I want to hear that [ __ ] dude just about anybody but I like still view like I I feel like there are some veterans in the room still oh ABS your favorite and everybody’s favorite at home John War still crushing in on the beat your best buddy that’s my guy man Tim Graham uh who’s been on the beat for you know what seems like years um I know he’s kind of like bounced back and forth he did the news thing for a while did the Sabers for a while but he’s covered the bills for long long I mean Jay really is like the Elder Statesman like if you on the beat there every day in the building every day on the road traveling sure like Jay is like you know the vet I mean he’s the pfwa President Joe B is the uh the vice president and um I’m still kind of like you know you know hopefully just entering my Prime like that’s that’s how I approach it like I’m hoping but I only could say that for a couple more years it’s going to be like oh yeah okay like I am getting kind of old here I should let people know by the way here at Casey’s black so if you’ve never been here before technically I mean if you’re a Bill’s fan and you cover the bills I’m a Bill’s fan this is a Bill’s podcast I’m objective about it but we’re an enemy territory of sorts this is an official Kansas City Chiefs Becker bar the owner of Vince great dude is a lifelong big Chiefs fan and there is a lot of Kansas City Chiefs stuff yeah flowing around this bar right now yeah it’s I love it man you gotta be really comfortable with your fandom as a Bills fan to walk into this place and not get objectively pissed off no um but I think it’s cool like just think about all the cities that we go to over the course of the Season there’s always a bills backers bar everywhere that you go and representing this you know the team and different cities like it’s cool though I love the bar uh Vinnie is a great guy he’s he’s actually the guy that brought the um the uh what was it the tro the Lombardi trophy to the parade a couple years ago and he got a picture with Patrick Mahomes that’s crazy that’s just a cool fan story even if you’re a Bills fan I think you kind of like Get kind of pumped up for a guy like that to live a dream like that and have a moment like that after the Super Bowl everybody would want to be that right sure yeah and legit this is one of the nicer neighborhood sports bars that you’ll find anywhere I mean the TVs just the back like cool stuff like I had a chicken sandwich here a couple years ago blew my blew the doors off dude it was just phenomenal the wings are amazing but everything you order here the be beers are always cold I love this place yeah and there’s a lot to do bartender here for a while what bars have ski ball man ski ball a pinball machine the boxer thing you can punch the bag yeah I think I probably punch hard that’s just guas probably probably talk about before we get into some Bill stuff here we kind of want to Circle back to your live shows that you do at Wing nuts with Ryan by the way you also did a Show recently at um what was it the golf place I call kitchen bar inside the Dome at unw yeah that was cool I we’re coming back July 11th break some news here is a guest there I watched that I caught that show but anyway generally speaking your shows at Wing nuts are very interactive with fans like quite often you guys first of all you’re an you’re pointing out the audio over a PA so people when they come there they can hear it like right now the only people hearing us are if they’re within airshot of us but like at Wing nuts pretty much anywhere in in the restaurant people will hear your show and like I said you often give chance or fans a chance to to come up and whatever your topic is that day talk about that like the interaction that you have with the fans and how that’s different than say a typical shout episode that you’ll do remotely with Ryan or whatever your guest might be the idea for the fan involvement has been like think about the live shows that we do and we’re interacting with like the comment section on YouTube right we’re almost bringing that experience to the bar right like if you have a comment if you want to get something on the on the on the podcast bad enough just come up and let’s talk about it we could actually almost have like a quasi like call-in radio style exchange now some of it’s gone off the rails like we had a Patriots fan Patriots week that was there for that a Chiefs fan Chiefs week I think it was playoff week like it gets a little bit rambunctious but um no I think fans have really enjoyed it and more so than anything the live shows what they’re about is like I tell this to people all the time it’s about like fans getting a chance to talk bills like off the cuff like in a way that you don’t normally get to do with like beat reporters and I try to be that for fans but do you get a little bit nervous or at least weary that like you might get the wrong person that’s maybe had too much to drink and they’re going to get up on that stage and you’re giving them a live microphone you know how they say control your controllables like that’s one of the few things that’s kind of like outside of your control does that like cross I’m not saying does that dominate your mind but like does that cross your mind like for example tone Puck is lurking around here I’m waiting for him to sabotage this show at any time right now that’s kind of in the back of my mind but like well seriously when you’re at a a live show that’s something at least you got to be wary of yeah I mean it’s definitely something that well first of all you could tell because most people that are coming on to a live show like that there’s a there’s there’s nerves involved right so if somebody’s coming up there free as a bird and like ready to kind of like take the mic I know what I’m potentially dealing with the Chiefs fan especially was was liquored up and it was a little bit like there was some language but listen it was a Saturday night we’re on YouTube it’s okay like you can swear a little bit but um no I I never have a huge issue uh because Ryan and I have such a good rapport that I feel like we could take any situation and kind of like bring it back to the middle if we have to you know how long did it take you the process of getting comfortable not so much doing the podcast we’ve talked about that before too but just like doing these live shows because it is a different element you know like say right now if we were doing this on streamyard and you were my guest and you remote I’m remote and something went wrong like you know whatever I’m just man I’m going to edit that [ __ ] out afterwards you know what I mean when you’re live especially in your case when you’re live with a with a pretty significant Siz audience that’s kind of a process talk about that just that process of of being in the moment and being comfortable with a live audience like that yeah that that part of it’s always I know that they’re there for us and that there’s a lot of regulars so that kind of helped put you in a in a place where you feel comfortable um but we don’t have this like when we go to a show all of it is back up here I do that and I’m just rifling through things and I the reason reason I do it that way is because I want it to feel as much like a conversation as it can and I feel like if I come in with a bunch of bullet points sure I’m gonna follow it at the cost of um being natural and so I feel you lose your flow yeah so I feel like if I have three or four things that I know we want to get to over the course of the show and I’ll get to that over the and it could be as long as or short as we want it to be and sometimes we’ll get out to these live shows and it’s really there’s a lot of people there maybe we make it a little shorter because we want to spend more time with the people there it’s more about the event than it is about the podcast if that makes any sense which is weird because people are coming to watch a live podcast does have you thought about if this team wasn’t good and here’s what I mean fans right now are excited about the team things work out or not you know they fallen short in the playoffs but they’re getting into the playoffs they’re good let’s say it was shout a Buffalo hockey podcast all right and you win 13 straight years you don’t make the playoffs the majority of Sabers fans are really annoyed they’re tired they’re pissed off they’re probably going to be a little more passive aggressive toward you you know and anything you say you put out there I’ve got a l pass aggressive stuff this offseason actually talk about that in a minute first of all there would never be sh a Buffalo hockey podcast who are you talking to here okay I would do a UV basketball or football podcast before I would do a Savers podcast uh not a hockey guy sorry um no you’re definitely not a hockey guy um but no that’s a good question and something to think about I almost think that it would be bigger the podcast would be bigger because people would be yearning for that Community more than ever to be like I mean really if you think about it now even with the success the bills have had part of it is just like sharing in this Collective misery of like finally having a good team that just now can’t get over the hump against a new Nemesis there’s that like push to be to get over the hump and so I think that that brings a lot of people together and the show more than anything else the live show is for like the community that’s been built to get together like I have a guy his name is Mark he lives in Syracuse outside of Syracuse drives up for every wing nut show every wing nut show he’s there with his wife every single time and it’s almost like in a way he’s become part of my family like I see him every single month he’s a subscriber to the shout Insider text line so I’m texting with him two or three times a week and you become part of each other’s lives in a way that you know if I was just DM in you back and forth on Twitter or X or whatever you call it you you build a relationship but you don’t have that like that in-person interpersonal connection with some now you know he’s pushing for us to come to Syracuse like he wants us to do a show on Syracuse we’re working on it um but it’s those kind of little relationships there’s a a dozen two dozen stories I could tell you like that and it’s just super cool you kind of got my Intrigue a little bit when you’re talking about passive aggressive like how’s this offseason been for you this is the time of year or is it not the time of year where you kind of get content creator wise a a little bit stuck in the mud not completely I mean you can always come up with you know kind of fresh ideas and stuff to talk about on the show but this is the one time of year you know the draft’s over like mini camps haven’t really even started yet stuff like that where you might get a little bit stuck is that like this time of year for you a little bit now you’ve kind of been on the podcast Circuit by the way lately oh yeah yeah I’ve seen you on a couple other shows I’m I’m which is good I like that You’ I like going on a lot of I I’ve complimented you that for years now I I actually you on to John Scott years ago remember yes the first time you had him on the podcast Abol you gotta get John Scott on I’m getting the next guy on Andy young I’ve known Andy young who is now the bills reporter for spectrum since John went over to Channel 2 I’ve known him going back to when I was a high school reporter at the Tanana news and he was at YNN which was Spectrum before that he’s been covering the bills for years they they mixed them they put them over on news for a while he’s great he’s now taking over the Buffalo Endzone podcast I went on with him this week yeah he is great for my money Andy is pound for should be in a pound-for-pound conversation like he is he’s super great I know you asked me about the offseason I’m GNA get there but I want to put him over because I love that term put over there’s so many I’m a wrestling guy at hard back in the 90s like not anymore this John Cena business really threw me off for for a couple years but I will say I’m back are you back I’m back when Reigns brought me back man good I never left let’s be honest brought me back but but you’re putting him over yeah I’ve liked him too so Andy young go follow him he he does a great job him and Kevin Carroll over on the podcast the offseason’s been weird because I gotta be honest with you I like a lot of what Brandon Bean typically does right yeah like across the board like he’s the guy that found Josh Allen he’s been the guy that has pivoted at multiple position groups multiple times over the course of Josh Allen’s career care in a successful way go back to when the receivers weren’t right with Kelvin Benjamin and Andre Holmes running Cole Beasley and John Brown reimagined it helped Elevate Josh Allen when the offensive line was terrible he made changes when it was not perfectly a fit he made more changes they brought in a good coach now that kind of goes more to Sean mcder I think he’s done a good job finding assistant coaches but I can see why the bills moved on from Stefon dicks I can see why this was the time I can see why and I’ve made the argument that you have to be able to see two three years down the road when you you have a tip ticking clock at quarterback and so a lot of the moves that they’ve made I’ve liked I put out a rece a wide receiver free agent Target list at the beginning uh in The Insider text in February number one was Odell Beckham Jr people killed me for it number five was Chase clay was Chase clayo I like the idea of taking and I know you don’t and we don’t have to really go down that L that path if you don’t want to but there’s no investment here it is a minimum contract it is a let’s see what what he’s like once you get him inside the building and if it doesn’t work out guess what he’s gonna get cut like all these other guys anyway the bills can’t spend a lot of money this offseason they can’t trade for Brandon iuk they can’t trade for T Higgins and oh by the way who was it that made the uh oh no I don’t want to mess this up I to give them their credit T Higgins if you go back and look at his combine prod production it’s almost identical to Coleman yeah I’ve seen that and somebody kind of came out and oh no it’s our it’s my buddy Mark um he goes by Sid Vicious on Twitter are you familiar with him at all I don’t think so I’m putting him over he called into one bills live I’m putting every everybody this episode he called in one bills Live this week and I happen to be driving and listening and I don’t even think I texted him so I’m gonna have to DM him and he said if you go back and watch t Higgins combine and look at the numbers identical to Keon Coleman what do Bills fans want right now they want to trade for T Higgins yeah but who knows maybe Keon Coleman is this draft’s version of that so I think Brandon bean and sha mcder have built up a ton of equity with the way that they’ve handled things over the course of the last seven years and I see a path now if it doesn’t go right I I reserve the right to evaluate it in real time which I feel like I do a pretty unv highest job at in season when things aren’t going well I’m going to call it out but in terms of the Remake and the revitalization of this roster with the cap constraints that they had I like a lot of the moves that theyve made and I think that you’re going to look back in four or five months and a lot of the people that might be upset right now with some of the things that have happened are going to be the same people that are shouting from the rooftops like big baller Bean like you got this guy this guy this guy it’s all great it’s all well and good like I can see the path and I’m trying to lay that out for people and some people are like well join the negativity train with me I just want you to scream Into The Ether like Nate giri and and Patrick Moran about all these different moves I come at it from a like a place of logic and I could see the logic in a lot of the moves that bean made this offseason all right so not that you don’t not that Nate doesn’t I’m not throwing shots here call me out he doesn’t like Chase clay either I well Nate is also a fellow Notre Dame fan like myself and he was good at Notre D but saw issues even back then here’s my thing about CH and this is where I don’t agree about it being like no harm no foul if he stinks you cut him I get that I understand the concept of that but my mindset is this because you signed Chase clay pool that’s another receiver that they’re not gonna sign like there’s someone else that they’re not going to bring in the camp who do you want I don’t know that’s the problem I always agree I want to know Beckham Jr yeah I did too that’s kind of what made my show that made me extra angry because it happened on the same day I want to know why the bills weren’t more aggressive in obj because they flirted with the idea a couple years ago yeah and didn’t it didn’t even seem like they were in on that so I’d like to know why that’s the case we haven’t heard from Brandon Bean we haven’t heard him talk about why they’re giving Chase Claypool this opportunity so it’s hard for me to give you my 100% take on this whole thing I’m just trying to see all of the different thoughts or the thought process that went into this and there’s a lot of it I like and the biggest reason why is he’s never played with a quarterback like Josh Allen no none of these guys have KJ ham has that’s fair Curtis Samuel the list of quarterback this guy has played with so I think if you’re projecting this wide receiver room with the change just at quarterback I think that you have to expect an uptick in their production I feel like I know who chase Claypool is and every rep he gets in training camp every every time his number is called that’s hamler number that’s not or Shaver’s number who’s not I just don’t think big Shavers guy no it’s okay that’s who you want absolutely not Tyrell shaver you heard Brandon I don’t know about him no I don’t know I don’t know enough about him and I don’t even know a lot of these receivers I just I think and I was talking with tone about this on the show just the other night I think it was kind of a frustration Chase clayo might have been the victim of like a culmination of a lot of things like I thought when because you mentioned Stefan Diggs and I’ve kind of played both sides of the fence which is okay shitty of me but when Stefan Diggs got traded I was in full support of it okay full support I’m like and you get a 20 25 second I get that sweet we’re going into this draft now and now Brandon be’s got more ammunition maybe they go get a top 10 guy maybe they trade off for Brian Thomas Jr maybe I don’t like those guys as much there was just a lot more possibilities and and you brought up a good point dinner which I know you’ll bring up and you’ll be right too you you’re going to be right but my mindset at the time was I support Diggs being traded because I thought it was a chess move and something else was coming besides drafting a rookie with or without digs they were going to take a rookie we didn’t know who and then after I’m like all right well they’re gonna swing a trade for somebody or they’re gonna sign Odell Beckham Jr or somebody so when it was the bills quietly signed three guys including Chase Claypool who wasn’t even in important enough for like Adam sheer or somebody to say p sources Clint CH like the team announced that [ __ ] that’s how we all pretty much found out about it so I think he was kind of a culmination of frustration that you traded Stefan Diggs which was cool but you didn’t really get anything for him and then my mindset became well if I would have known on April 3 that trading Stefon Diggs was just going to result in drafting Keon Coleman and signing Chase Claypool and nothing else I would have rather just found a way to work with step digs for one more year you would know this a hell of a lot better than me you’re in that locker room you covered a team full time maybe that’s just not wasn’t doable at this point which is what I’m guessing but tell tell the people what you told me over dinner about Diggs in the back half what you’re getting with Stefan D because you were right it was a good point okay so I’ll start there and then I’ll I’ll come in with a little bit more on what you were just alluding to because I think that’s a very interesting talking point like the what they ended up getting in place of on digs versus trying to work things out with him I think that would be interesting to talk about sure so first off I think a lot of people are operating on Diggs whatever they think about him and his role with this team like the guy that was here in 2020 and 21 when he was absolutely taking the league by storm with Josh Allen he’s had the most Targets in his career he was putting he was breaking Bill’s receiving records Josh Allen and Stephon digs were on the the cover of Sports Illustrated Kids best buddies in the world that wasn’t the case the last two years and more importantly the last 12 games of last season Stefon di stunk let’s be honest like he wasn’t very good khil Shakir had better stats than Stefon Diggs who was set to make $26 million this year in this league you have to know when to get off of a player that’s about to tank right it’s your point to get a second round pick back for him when Keenan Allen yielded a fourth Amari Cooper a couple years ago yielded a fifth I thought that was really good work Brandon me too so here’s the other part of it what the bills have now it’s a lot of question marks right sure but what did they do last year in the draft in the first round took a tight end I took a pass catcher what did they do to get get that they traded up to get that tight end right so Brandon be didn’t trade up in this year to get the weapon he did it last year and I don’t think Dalton concade could ever be or realiz the potential that he has in the eyes of the bills their front office their coaching staff if you have a Stefon Diggs or someone like Stefon digs in this offense that’s going to be a Target share monster that’s going to command 12 targets a game how you gonna get how you gonna feature Dalton concade in any way now you have a wide receiver group that has a bunch of different flavors you’re gonna let the best guys win and none of them are going to command a big share of the targets and so now you are going to get to see what it looks like with d con Cade potentially as weapon one in this offense and if it doesn’t work guess what you’ll have next off season a boatload of money to go figure it out and draft capital in draft Capital you’re 100% everything you say about seon digs I completely agree with I guess what I want to ask you is you’re not g of course know specifics but what what to what extent did the relationship get bad between Stefan and Josh that it definitely fact because it it had been a factor that they could not because the money they were going to eat the money this year whether he played or not and they traded them and they ate it all this year in fact they actually lost another $3 million by trading him this year which was worth it because of what they got the second round pick his production I agree with you 100% And I think that’s the primary reason but to me it’s clear that something relationship not maybe one thing I I think Tim Graham I was talking to him before and he said it was like death by a thousand like microaggressions or something like that that he said is that kind of how you feel like when it comes whether it’s Stefan and Josh Allen their relationship or Stefan’s relationship with Shawn mcder or just other people in the organization he just didn’t seem happy you wanted out yeah I’m sorry that I did the podcast circuit because I kind of already talked about this on Andy Show yeah we’re gonna talk about it again so first off to answer your first question there was definitely a problem with John St to the point where when we when I asked Josh about it at his press conference a month ago after digs was traded he basically said I said what did you learn about this and he said you know I learned that everybody operates differently and you got to put the energy into getting to know how a guy ticks and then adjusting how you treat that person right I’m paraphrasing like he didn’t say exactly like that and so he learned a lesson that like whatever reason we may never learn it maybe it’ll come out on a podcast Stefon digs goes on the pivot or something in five years feel and finally lets it all out right and so we’ll learn a lot about that situation then but what I do think the bills did this off seon is prioritize players that are going to prioritize their relationship with Josh which I don’t know if Stefon Diggs ever did and to Tim’s point about being like death by a million Cuts I think everybody loves Stefon digs in that locker room I think he was a great teammate a great leader I think guys leaned on him they trusted him and they loved him like Stefon digs is like a guy that’s like for the culture he’s super cool he’s fashion oriented like guys want to be like him and they want to be around him so I don’t think that that was ever a problem but if there’s a divide between the star receiver and the quarterback that is something that’s going to fatigue a locker room because it’s always going to come down to sides like when you’re in meeting rooms when you’re out on the practice field when you’re yelling back and forth I could see a million different ways how that affected the locker room without ever actually seeing specifics because it’s such an important relationship so if that was strained you probably had guys on all sides guys that were tight with Josh guys that were tight with Diggs and then when they all came together when did you ever see a picture of Josh Allen and Stefon digs together outside of the building you see Dawson and Josh all the time you saw Gabe and Josh all the time there were the relationship changed over time and the bills chose to to go in a different direction and I have to imagine it was part of the reason I as a fan it makes me sad that like the Legacy that because Stefan digs had the four greatest Seasons receiving in the history of this franchise ever and there’s going to be maybe someday down the road a lot of fans will choose to remember that more fondly maybe than they do right now but I think right now he didn’t help any of how no he didn’t and a lot of it is on him like I said a kind of a male content who who wanted his way out as opposed to say somebody like Jordan puyer I mean Jordan puer is literally playing for the enemy he’s playing for the Dolphins little bit different though he got cut you know he didn’t force his he talked about how much he loves Buffalo yeah and like first of all you can’t fake that kind of I want to give you a Jordan poer take okay all right I truly believe this in my heart okay this is how I feel for even maybe even going back years I think Jordan poyer’s always wanted to live he loves Florida he wants to live in Florida he loves living in Florida been in that guy’s backyard it’s hard to leave that place dude it is beautiful live right in the water he loves it he he um D driving in Lamborghini to practice 12 months a year playing golf 12 months a year he loves all that stuff about Florida but I think when it comes time to put on the pads and start the season I think he’s gonna miss being a Buffalo Bill I think he misses being a Buffalo Bill the football part he loves the community he was great for this community did a lot of amazing things but I think he’s very happy in Miami but I think he misses being a buffalo more anything I think that’s a great take and like you know last year was a weird year for puyer like I think he came back to Buffalo after kind of striking out on the free agent Market remember sure sure sure and I think that that he felt some kind of way about that I think he had almost mentally moved on from Buffalo thinking that he was going to sign somewhere else and the best deal he could get was back in Buffalo so he came back and he was still the same guy but walking around the building like he just was different like he didn’t have that same like spark that Joy part of that comes with playing the league for 10 years I mean it’s gonna fade like it’s hard so I think that point too like when he’s got to put the pads on for Miami the first time it goes wrong and that’s an organization that just under Mike McDaniel even I’m not even talking about longterm like when it gets real hard they don’t have the leadership they just they need Jordan Boer types did you watch hardx yes dude I am out on Mike McDaniel and I don’t know if that’s like a hot take I just don’t see a bunch of guys i’ I’ve watched those meetings he’s a front runner when everything’s going great but when the chips are down are you following that guy no like I I mean I feel like I’m I don’t know like he just he doesn’t scream like leader to me and that’s not to be super judgmental I don’t know I’m not all I don’t know behind yeah the scenes but yeah I’m not saying the bills are in some amazing situation with their head coach but it just it it has a different feel here when you watched Hard Knocks um I didn’t watch all the episodes but I did watch the one in the finale where they lost to the bills right they were Miami was up at halftime and it did not feel like they were up in that locker room like two just quiet there was no no ra R there was no felt like there was no leadership it felt like Miami was a team that was expecting Buffalo to come back in the second half watching the HBO series that’s the way it felt and they did so maybe they need some Jordan puers in their Lo they do they do but how much is Jordan puyer going to be able to get to that level without Mah Hyde without all of his guys what does he have left I mean he’s in a secondary with Jaylen Ramsey who I don’t know dude I’m out on Jaylen ramens too but here’s another thing I think Mike McDaniel is the poster child for why Bill’s fans that are not content with Shawn mcder better be careful what you wish for that’s a good point yeah sometimes you want this offensive Guru that Mike McDaniel has been buil to be but with all of that has to come the leadership like I think Kyle Shanahan is an excellent coach I think he’s a great head coach but as great as he is and as much of an offensive Guru as he is what’s it gotten them two Super Bowl appearances two Super Bowl losses he’s gotten no closer to a well he’s gotting closer to a Super Bowl than sea mcder definitely but they have the same record like no Super Bowls on their resume yeah here live at Casey’s Black Rock with Matt Perino by the way got over 800 people on the live stream even though we started late too so Props everybody who’s actually watching this on the video subscribe on YouTube I guess I don’t like putting myself over I’ll put you over you’re good at that I’ll put this guy over you’re a great Seger too that’s one of my favorite things about your show like when you transition into your ad reies and stuff you do it effortlessly I’ve always ad and by the way my podcast circuit comment was a compliment a thanks it wasn’t wasn’t a negative annotation there I like listen I’m a man of the people I I love my people I love going on we’re we’re all friends like I’m the old one you’re I’m supposed to G be giving you the good advice and lead in the way and it’s kind of been the you you well you’ve been given good advice to me that I need to start following more about social media yeah like I need to turn it off a little bit more than I do I get too fired up I get I get to into the weeds message to social media My New Philosophy my way of life on social media if you don’t follow me and you say something dickish to me on social media that’s a block you’re blocked or muted it’s a block I don’t block everybody that does that but I mute most of them and my thing is like there’s so much negativity in the world the regular world I’m not going to put up with that on social media so my new thing is I don’t even engage in it if you say something like like so I’ll give you an example some guy today said um I put out a tweet about my dishwasher I I don’t I don’t do my own dishes it was a different tweet from you yeah I don’t do my own dishes but I was just thinking about it my wife had a a school event tonight so I was doing the dishes for her because I wanted it to be done before she gets home and I don’t do that very often but there’s a reason to that because she puts all of the dirty dishes in the sink and so they if they get to be a p a pile too high I can’t operate too much of a task I can’t operate task I need them on the outside so I can like like rinse them and then put him in the dishwasher anyway I put my whole thing out on this one guy quote tweeted and goes this guy pays eight doar a month to a billionaire to just Yap his mouth so guess what guy I won’t see you any more replies because you’re blocked but I don’t pay the 8 a month you do the math oh okay I gotta be honest with you six months ago I might not have agreed with your philosophy I would be like yeah it’s kind of petty and we you kind of like it but I’ve learned not not as much you used to I used us it’s starting to get to me I I quit Twitter for eight hours the day the day the chase clay signing I said I’m done tweeting I’m putting out the episodes and I’m gonna use gifts only I’m not GNA communicate with anyone anymore that didn’t even last one day you can’t you’re addicted I am right I want to talk about the draft before we get out of here now we’ve had some time to kind of reflect on it again I’m a knee-jerk reactor it’s kind of well known I overreacted a lot of things I didn’t love the draft at first but as times went on and I started to learn more about about these players and I watched I caught embedded on uh Bill’s YouTube channel the other day as well I’ve become much more fond of this draft it makes sense like these seem like a lot of matchup pieces like Bishop especially seems like a matchup piece and I also noticed a trend with character and a lot of these guys like Ray Davis and Dwayne Carter was a three-year captain at Duke and Bishop was a captain at Utah it seems you know we’ve talked about this I know you talk about on your show of Ryan a lot you lose a lot of leadership man guys like like um pyer and Hyde and Trey white and Mitch mois and Stefan these guys are all gone and they got some leaders ready to come in and step up but you’re going to need that next wave too and it kind of feels like that had some purpose in what they were doing with this draft as well character leadership things like that and Keon Coleman I’m I’m uh wiping the Slate clean like you’re you’re you’re throwing out all of your pre I didn’t never hated him I never hated him I was just like I didn’t he was not high on my list of receivers In fairness to people like us whether you cover the team like you do or a podcast like me or fans Brandon Bean kind of painted a picture that you you would expect a a smaller quickish explosive separation type guy so to go get a big body guy to me kind of felt like a little bit of a surprise a little bit of a shock that’s I think maybe that’s why pre-draft I never really had him high on my list makes sense so what I’m telling you is that these players now with some hindsight and you know thinking about it seemed to make sense what Brandon Bean did I was surprised that they went safety as high as they did because it’s not it’s never been a position that they valued enough right and I don’t want to say valued but like they trust their coaching staff to develop like undrafted guys late round guys so I thought I would do all my mock drafts and I think maybe in one I threw in a safety early just for you know the sake of it but I didn’t really think they were going to do it right and so when they went out and got C Bishop I saw I thought first of all after they you know brought in a veteran like Mike Edwards they had cam Lewis on the roster you know Tyler WS expected to take one of those jobs I’m like they have to love this guy and then hearing Bean talk about wanting to trade up for him too to get him yeah that that jumped out at me and so I’m I’m higher on Cole Bishop now than I was during the draft process because of how much they wanted him to me that that says more terrya was talking about him on I don’t know if you caught eded yet I watch the whole thing all right but he terrya we going to get that safety like Terry Mula said that I was who so that was no that was not an exaggeration like they I didn’t at first I’m like well GMS always said they wanted this guy they were gonna move they did so anyway I didn’t mean to cut you off sometimes it feels doesn’t it feel like a like a draft pick can be like ah we like this guy we like where we got him and and it ends there but like you don’t oftentimes get like the kind of Intel that like this was a guy that we wanted to get up to get even Coleman when they asked was he the pick at 28 green came back and was like yeah he was one of a couple guys that we would have taken at 28 you didn’t get they weren’t trying to trade up for Keon Coleman right Bishop was like a guy high on their board that I think you get excited about so I started doing work on Coleman two or three weeks before the draft I kind of wrote him out off during the draft process because I was with you I thought I heard that they were super high on Thomas Jr so I thought that that was going to be the Target and you know there’s a lot of smoke around draft season so it wasn’t anything that I was willing to report and we’ll find out over time if that was necessarily even the case but once I saw a report that Coleman and the bills could be necessarily a fit I’m like I better get up on this guy the more you read about him the more you learn about him the more you like him and he fits as that that boundary X and and that’s something they’ve been missing for a long time I never thought even Gabe Davis was great in that role because he has limitations like as a pass catcher like go watch The Gauntlet drill of course they talk about the speed in that drill right but the fluidity of the way that he caught the ball the seamless nature of catching the ball dropping it catching the ball dropping it that’s about as good of a drill you’ll see yeah is they need somebody that they can rely upon in that role when Josh throws you the ball if it hit your hands you’re gonna catch it right and that was the problem with Gabe Davis so if you get just Gabe Davis supercharged with Coleman I think you’re happy about that if you’re gonna feature concade more love Dwayne Carter my favorite pick in the draft me and Ryan have talked a lot about this um Cedric vanran Granger dude this dude Aaron chromer seal of approval when you got that I’m all in on the guy this dude is an offensive line Whisperer every movie he’s made that he’s had a say in since he took over has been perfect and that’s why I’m not worried about the move from McGovern from left guard to Center kromer’s signing off on it he he sees this line he knows what’s going to be the best version of his offensive line I never thought Mitch Morris was a chromer fit and he made it work with him but I always thought it was kind of that was going to run its course and he was going to want his new center plus I really like the late the international pathway program yeah you got to be careful saying Jordan mil Lada like that might be a once in a-lifetime type of thing but for the chance at that Holy you know sometimes when you look at a draft afterwards you don’t think about it at the time but then it’s like it makes so much sense taking a center just made so much sense because last year you got Mitch Morris all right if gets hurt or something happens with him you can put Ryan Bates in there or you can move a government over to center right now as things stand they really didn’t have yeah yeah he’s more of a tackle right so it makes sense the one pick at the time I did not like and it’s not because I don’t like him as the player it’s just R I just didn’t understand why you would go get a running back instead of that second receiver which again leads into my frustration more about Chase clayo it’s like I thought they were going to double dip a receiver and they didn’t which is fine now I get that but like At first I didn’t like the pick but now I’m like I look at the highlights of this guy and the type of player he is the type of character he is and he’s GNA fit in this offense just fine henel in a running back in round two three or four every two years yeah for the rest of Brandon be because you don’t want to give him a second contract right James Cook could take the world the league by storm over the next two seasons the bills aren’t paying him yeah like I just don’t think they’re GNA pay a running back like they’re not in that business maybe he turns into the next Christian mcaffrey and then they’re like okay we’ll pay that but that’s what it’s got to be I think for Brandon being to consider it and it’s got to be that much a part of their offense one thing we’ve talked about on the show what happens if we get early in the season and James Cook is still dropping passes like that was a problem was a problem last year that everybody talking about cook as being like this big part of the passing game how can you be a big part of the passing game if you’re not trusted to catch it when it’s thrown to you and I think they did a good job of not like totally putting him in the dogghouse at any point last year he’s a young player in year two most snaps he’s ever played if he put up his entire football career he played more snaps last year so it’s going to take some time but that’s a something I’m kind of watching with cook Ray Davis is a good pass catch I think he got like seven touchdowns last year coming out of uh Kentucky Les Bill’s thing here like right now when you look at this roster we can sit here and talk about a lot of good things and there are a lot of things to like about this team it’s a playoff team and they’re still a very good football team but like what do you think is the singular biggest red flag like right now like go you know what is funny I just said red flag it reminds me Me Hugh nck Gary we’re at malberry couple years ago we’re doing a podcast training camp Dawson we talked about the same exact thing and at the time you said Dawson Knox and ironically Dawson Knox is sitting 15 feet away from us having dinner with his uh his then girlfriend he actually went on to have a good season but as things stand right now what would you consider the biggest red flag maybe besides receiver because that might be a little low hanging fruit but actually I do got one on the day one h on after this so I lied this is not the I’ll be quick with this what’s your right flag Ed Edge rusher yeah Mak can we sit here and say that we’re expecting Von Miller to be anything like he was two years ago no no it could happen sure I can win the lottery right yeah you know I there’s so many question marks about what who is the guy on the outside for this team is it Greg rouso maybe but he still hasn’t even had a 10- sack season in four years years in the leags guy nice player six sacks capped so far they’re expecting him to take a huge jump and so we’ll see maybe he can be the guy that takes that next step I like Javon Solomon but he’s not gonna have a huge role year one if he even makes the team and then after that Dwayne Smoot he had an Achilles a couple years ago he was terrible last year that’s why he was available when the bills got him this is let me tell you something about Dwayne smooth and this is not to crap on the guy this isn’t Leonard Floyd coming in in here okay coming off of a Super Bowl run a couple years ago when he had 10 plus sacks leard Floyd had 10 or more sacks or around 10 sacks for like four straight Seasons smooth’s not that guy so I AG they’re not really great on the interior I don’t know who’s producing consistently on the edge for them I agree with you you know when it comes to receiver you got enough guys you could be kind of receiver by committee you can’t really have pass rush by committee somebody somebody’s got to stand out and matter I actually do want to back cuz I do want to ask you about Keon Coleman specifically I’m not being the old guy you know the old [ __ ] aggressive guy but a serious question no no no I like him he’s fun I’m sure it was a real treat for you guys sitting in the Press Room for him to come out was that as cool in person as it seemed like watching it on on the internet he came out went to the cookies he was hilarious that was fun admit this might be where my bias shows if I get a guy that’s a really good story maybe I put him over a little bit more than I should I don’t know because this is what I’m in this for right like the guys that like are in that locker room that you can have a conversation with and have something real to say you could tell their personality is real like it’s it’s the introductory press conference everybody’s performing you know so I don’t want to take too much away from this but everything that I’ve read everything that I’ve listened to people Rave about the guy that he is and to me that’s what they needed they needed the next receiver that they brought in here to be whether it be in the draft free agency to be a guy that was going to get along that was going to be somebody that prioritized Josh Allen and yeah he was he was so much fun and that was me in the background if you heard him say these cookies really good and then Heather prusac came up off the side said they’re great they’re really great I already had two and I yelled that back and I was like yeah her husband had four dude John for as good shape as he is he puts down those cookies in the it’s amazing I’m I’m I’m amazed yeah that he he seems like a lot of fun and I would assume Josh Allen had some input on what receiver they took and and going back and watching embedded and just putting logic together feels to me like it was going to be Coleman or Legette like they got to the bottom of the round and they would have been good with either not saying they liked one more than the other that’s kind of uh how it felt but back with Coleman the one thing I’m gonna say and This concerns me a little bit just with life the way people are people like to build you up to knock you down and the fans are loving it right now they’re eating it all up he’s doing a lot of media a lot of podcasts he was just at a a restaurant working the register you know really good laughs but at some point your boy’s got to be able to play because he he he’s got like those oo single Vibes Chad Johnson like really likable cool fun you want to be around that you want to see that but you better play like him too because like if you got oo single Vibes but you play like Trent sherfield fans are going to turn on you pretty quick and call you you know the next J James Hardy or Kelvin Benjamin or somebody like that that’s a little bit concerning to me no I I think that you’re you’re on point there um the thing that’s interesting about the bills and Brandon bean and his and his Department this is the first time they’ve ever taken a risk at wide receiver this the first receiver they’ve drafted in the first three rounds since they took over the job and so and I like them too I want to be clear about that I’m there there are some red flags with you know his Scouting Report what people said about him what they’re going to ask him to be and now because the expectations because the personality are sky through skying through the roof now you’re like okay if he ends up just being a little bit better version of Gabe Davis is that enough like and it will be enough if they eventually find their next Stefon Diggs right but and and maybe that ends up being conc in a way because he turns into their version of Kel gives you more SEL has a chance to be really good in this offense and you know I don’t think people are talking I don’t think people like are giving Samuel the kind of respect he deserves he’s played in a pretty shitty offense for the last couple of seasons and I thought he he pretty much made him and McLaren made hinei look like a player at times I mean he led the league in passing yards I think so I think you add Samuel into the mix you have all these other pieces you still got one of the best quarterbacks if not the you know what the second best quarterback in the NFL behind Center feel like Josh Allen could drag almost any team 10 wins no matter what and and with look with Samuel at the time I was like why they signing a SWAT guy but now I’m like well they probably knew what they were doing with yeah yeah yeah yeah yeah for sure I think sh was still there at the time when I said that true true true and I think Shakir has more boundary potential than we’ve seen I like him I do too I think he’s I think he’s yet to play what sh M do so well what does he do so well he coaches defense coaches defense right like there’s huge turnover on defense a lot of question marks on defense we were all like freaking out about taine Edmonds DET trell Bernard last year or whatever it was going to be and that ended up being an upgrade like I I’m pretty sure that they have a plan in place I I have concerns about that defensive line obviously I’ve talked about the Ed rusher position but I think sha mcder if you’re going to bet on somebody to figure it out on defense I feel like he will Terell Bernard is my worst take ever I called him trash last year at training camp dude thought he was trash at Camp I’m like you seriously this is what what you’re going to do is you’re going to have either Terrell Berard or Tyrell Dodson take Germaine evans’s spot got two more questions for you not quickly on Bernard before what was the N the knock on him during Camp couldn’t stay healthy got banged up Miss pre of the Year biggest game of the season he wasn’t there that’s a problem like how surprised are you at how he emerged I mean holy [ __ ] dude I mean we oh quick answer I don’t want to keep you all night but I wasn’t predicting that yeah so it’s not just me I I thought that like to be honest with you my my one interaction with him that stood out from his rookie season was after he absolutely stunk it up your boy Tom pox is not happy I think he just lost I hope he lost um beep beep beep um remember he stunk against the Jets in his one start from Milano and in those situations a lot of times vets will like take guys and like push the media out and not let you talk to him and almost like no he’s not talking type of thing right Bernard they kind of tried to do that for him and Bernard was like no I’ll take questions and he answered every single question I like him to me I was like that’s some leadership right there he’s got some leadership in him he’s gonna be a captain for this team if you didn’t have a sports podcast or you got tired of doing sh for whatever reason and you could do a podcast but it’s got to be a not a sports podcast what would be something interesting enough to you that you might want to do a podcast now we’re not talking three times a week you know even if it was just something once a week like if you wanted to have some type of non bills or nonf football podcast what would be something potentially that could interest you non sports you said well at least non football I know it ain’t GNA be hockey that’ be easy because then I would just go MMA um I don’t know man like if you think about my life and what I actually spend my time doing um I think you could have a good parot podcast between you and your podcast yeah that could I think you and your wife could have a really good parent I think you guys I think you guys could have a really good parent the Modern Family podcast I legitimately love your wife man she is one of my favorite social media followers I I I love the photos on Facebook said is for dinner you guys got the most adorable girl most phonogenic girl in the history that is funny she’s so bombed that she uh I she wasn’t here tonight I said uh I think this is like the first one that we’ve done together that she hasn’t been at a couple yeah but you know day job man got gotta pay the bills last question here I end with a buffalo question all right so we’re here at Casey’s Black Rock to me and I’ve said this and I’ll say it again this is one of the most underrated spots in all of West York whether I’m talking not just I’m talking the whole ordeal whether it’s for wings get some drinks watching games chilling on the back playing some games just socializing The Vibes I just I Love This Bar it’s one of the most underrated places to me in all Western New York I want you to name something it doesn’t have to be a specific place but something about Buffalo that is underrated and then I want you to me these questions before I come it’s too easy you’re you’re a Polish Pro you’re going to be able to handle this I want you to give me some something about Buffalo anything about Buffalo a person a thing an event something that’s underrated and then I want you to give me something about Buffalo that’s overrated wow all right I ain’t putting you on the spot what’s yours I got all these notes and I didn’t even really use what’s yours um underrated Summers I feel like summers are prop underrated all right all right I take that back all right you’re right now now I kind of screwed myself here all right that you can’t you can’t call that underrated um that’s a good really put me on the spot here dude struggling myself I I so many you know it’s it’s got to be something food related because everyone just Associates Buffalo with wings right and buffalo has got so many awesome spots right where things like beef on W and stuff like that which by the way I know you lived out in Vegas do people know beef on W is in Vegas noack outside yeah in Florida nobody even knew what the hell that [ __ ] was um all right I’m gonna have to come back to that overrated a lot of things about Buffalo that’s overrated man wow weers is overrated loga Berry is overrated oh Weber’s mustard yeah Weber’s mustard sucks all right um blue cheese is overrated so dude you’re putting me on the spot here I know because I’m just naming everything I need a little bit of time to think about this that’s fair what’s underrated about well you could put me over on your next show you know what’s underrated I got you what traffic yes there’s no traffic in Buffalo underrated part I was talking about um La the other day B playing in La again dude I can’t stand going to La mostly because of the traffic it’s terrible we are so lucky we take it so much for granted I got here tonight from Amherst New York by the Blue Water Tower in 11 minutes yeah that’s crazy amazing it’s a great point you know what that might be the most underrated thing about Buffalo I lived in Florida and some if one accident went happen on the one or on the 75 one just one you’re an hour and a half oh I got the most overrated all right what is good thing we’re doing at the end of this podcast I’ll give you my most overrated too I got most NHL hockey is the most overrated thing in Buffalo because memo to Buffalo I can’t believe I’m dropping this T you’re gonna get be for this buddy here’s the thing NHL hockey outside of Western New York pretty much everywhere outside of Western New York and Canada yeah nobody nobody gives a [ __ ] and like I and this goes back to an argument I had many years ago I think on social media what would mean more a Super Bowl or a Stanley Cup and people were actually saying a Stanley Cup I almost lost my mind now this was during the Brier Drury era so like of course the bill sucked for years and so like it almost felt like the Sabers were closer to winning the cup man where are those people wrong well everybody was wrong because neither of the teams have won but and I’m not trying to dump on like what you like I just want there to be a little bit of a realistic view on what hockey actually is in the US the bills winning the Super Bowl is Big because the NFL is so massive that to be have a seat at that table like makes it so huge if you won the Stanley Cup you’re probably going to run third on Sports Center dude for what for for what worth I I don’t disagree with you I have made it very clear on Twitter many times that I would trade the Sabers for an NBA I don’t quote with a yes but I’m with you but you’re gonna catch some Pat level heat for I know I know it’s okay I don’t catch enough heat so that’s fine my most overrated thing and this is a reflection of me not him John whl’s radio show on Saturdays whatever the hell shout out three dubs man what’s up dude I’m just playing anyway man all right guys that’s GNA do it here from Casey’s Black Rock right was fun um dude on Thursday night that’s not bad for a for a schmuck like you no it’s all because of you buddy just kidding all right guys have a good weekend I’ll be back new shows next week