May Offshore Playbook with Capt. Rick Croson

This episode moves quickly to cover many of the offshore targets and possibilities that are present in May off of the North Carolina coast, with time spent on the best rigs whether you’re trolling, jigging, popping, and/or bottom fishing.

[Music] [Music] hello everyone and welcome back to the fisherman’s post saltwater podcast series after our 2-year Hiatus this episode is titled May offshore Playbook we’re going to be speaking with longtime friend Captain Rick croen of Living Waters guide service out of rville Beach and he’s going to be covering such areas as what to bring what targets to look for specifics on rigs for trolling for jigging for popping and for bottom fishing my name is Gary Hurley Gary Hurley of Fisherman’s post and Fisherman’s post has been serving the NC saltwater fishing Community since 2003 we’ve been offering fishing reports fishing tournaments fishing schools membership weekly reports and now the popular saltwater podcast Series where we reach out to our captain and guide friends from up and down the North Carolina coast and ask them to share with us their insights their knowledge on how to catch more fish more often and I am joined in this endeavor saltwater podcast series version 2.0 with a new podcast partner first time Sons Billy Thor please welcome David Harden of Harden Creative Media hello Gary hello David how are you doing I’m doing good man it’s good to see you thanks for having me on man it’s a pleasure to have you in that seat it’s a pleasure to be back at the podcast Studio it’s a pleasure to be talking with Rick croen I’m very thankful I’m very grateful In This Moment it’s exciting I’m excited to talk fishing I can tell I can tell you’re excited I could I’m physically you know just excited well we’ve got a lot of fish if you want to talk fishing Our Guest is the perfect guest he can talk fishing all right I’m I’ll be ready all right so we have some sponsors to than don’t we I hope we have some sponsors to than uh the first one is uh Port City Signs Port City Signs and Graphics man I I love those people it’s Sabrina and crew and uh welcomeing them to the podcast I mean I’ve had a relationship with her for just about all 20 years of well I won’t say that because they haven’t been around 20 years but we’ll say over 10 maybe less than 15 man they do so much for us they do our leaderboard logos they do all our banners they do so much work and what I’m excited about this sponsorship is I get to tell the world that they do so much more David I think you got a slide showing us one example so here’s our theme David they do so much different design work so much different sign work that every episode they sponsor we’re going to Showcase a different service a different product they provide that’s good I know uh Sabrina as well worked with her for years and they do really really sharp work at that shop Yeah man so we were just looking at a vehicle wrap they do vehicle wraps of course they do boat wraps we’re going to be talking about boat wraps soon soon because they’re going to do probably boats that belong to a couple of people that you might know but today again what I’m just trying to brand is so many different products and services vehicle wrap is one of them that’s great and we’ve got another sponsor and who’s that that would be Marine Warehouse Center I couldn’t imagine doing this podcast without Marine Warehouse be the same it wouldn’t be the same it wouldn’t with the with a plenty of terrible jokes well let’s see a video first okay let’s watch a video Matt with Marine Warehouse excited to give you guys a huge update we’re now carrying Seaborn and spider boat line of course we have the newest models of Carolina Skiff sailfish sea Chaser and Par Marine with over 60 boats in stock at womon location let’s schedule a sea trial and let’s get you on the water [Music] today good people EDM Marine Warehouse they are fantastic people EMT Terell and the whole crew and last episode episode you introduced us that you have a relationship with them they helped you with the repow and this episode I think you’re going to tell us about yet another service they my uh my trailer was replaced by Marine Warehouse and they did such a great job for it they they custom fit it to my boat so it’s perfectly balanced going down the road um they did a fantastic job with it well sales parts and service they have it all and you know as we as we reintroduced with our first episode again here when we’re in our second episode episode Terell as soon as the podcast resurfaced man that guy is just he just wants attention he’s blowing up my phone he has yet another joke for me to tell another one yeah I mean I guess we’re calling these jokes we’re still gonna call these jokes technically technically so this time Terrell called me and you know of course it was during dinner hour I’m trying to have some family time but I answer because it’s Terrell and he tells me that he’s working on a book he’s writing a book on reverse psychology but he told me not to buy it that was a good one was it that was a good one yeah that was a good one was it if we had sound effects there would have been a rimshot sound effect in there was it though we maybe we can put that in later um how to sponsor the show yeah let us know if you interested in sponsoring the podcast uh we’d love to work with you so just contact Fisherman’s Post Yeah information on Fishermans post.com click on the podcast Tab and a new announcement so we’re doing something different with the Return of the podcast um many of you know that we’ve been offering these weekly fishing reports behind a paid wall Fisherman’s post has weekly inore fishing report something down the North Carolina coast behind a paid wall we are going to incorporate the podcast into member benefits we want to re we’re very grateful for our members we’re going to give them more for their membership dollar so now weekly insure fishing report members will get early releases of podcast so they’ll be watching this Rick croen podcast earlier they’ll be seeing the Pierre again a podcast earlier and in addition to early release of the podcast you’ll also get bonus content so what we’re going to do after each show is David Harden’s coming up with his own questions we’re going to have five to 10 minutes of bonus content not available on YouTube but available again as a thank you to our members and if you want information on that it’s Fishermans post.com and then click on premium content or memberships that’s great it’s all good stuff we ready to go um we’re almost ready to go what I have to do is what I do is I set up the end of the show here at the beginning of the show oh okay and setting up the end of the show means we’re going to come to you not for Billy’s Best takeaway but we’re coming to you for David’s best takeway David’s best takeaway brilliant name and we’re going to see if you have any what about questions we’re going to see if David asked you know if he were the host what questions would he have asked Rick cren and again that’ll be our jump start for our bonus content behind the membership paid wall but right now yes David Harden it is my pleasure my privilege to welcome back to the podcast and I didn’t check this beforehand but I believe for a fourth time that might be worthy of a jacket or something Captain Rick croen Living Waters guide service out of rville beach welcome back to the podcast hey thank you so much Gary for having me yeah man again as I’ve told people all the time and one of the first people I talk to when I was just fleshing out the idea of Fisherman’s Post newspaper back in 2003 and so do you know how many times you’ve been on the P this isn’t one of your two questions I’m just asking out of curiosity I don’t I think this is number four or five I think so too all right well you’ve been on the show enough to know that we don’t get to the material until we do our two questions you tell me you’re ready for question number one I give you question number one okay first of all going back to the Marine Warehouse piece you just did Marine Warehouse um they do everything for me just like David said on his trailer they work on my trailer they work on my Motors they do all of my If the mechanic touches it it’s through them so just a big giant plug to them the the best sponsor you could have man I had to give Pierre 50 bucks last week and now this week I’m giving Rick croen 50 bucks for that spontaneous plug of our sponsor unprompted Rick croen question number one why should we listen to what you have to say about offshore fishing as a gen xer I’m not sure that you should except for when I get home at the end of the day I’d have to clean fish for multiple minutes or sometimes longer than minutes so um I would listen to me only because I love to fish and I love to take advantage of everything that’s available and so uh this is not the only way to do it but it’s my way to do it so that’s why I’d listen the acceptable answer to number two you qualify for question number two are you ready sir okay go ahead from the following list which of these celebrities or advocates of the keto diet a diet of which you participated in for a few years which of the following are Advocates of the keto diet I’m gonna give you four names tell me which is all right okay Melissa McCarthy I think it’s Brides made Fame Tim tibo LeBron James Tim Kardashian uh Tim TBO um it’s a trick question they all are all four of them are Advocates of the keto diet how about that how about that company you used to keep interesting yes now I’m carnivore so let’s go let’s get into May offshore Playbook I think our first thing is what to bring but i’ tell you what before we even go to what to bring give us the thought process behind that title the May offshore Playbook yeah great question Gary so when you asked me about you know hey what you know what can we talk about this is coming out in May um May to me is just a it’s a prime month for where we are in North Carolina uh we’re at the perfect latitude for having so many different uh targets um which is a great thing it’s also um it also complicates things um so the reason I said Playbook is because I this time of year I go offshore with the most amount of gear that I that I have um because we have such changing conditions um and it can change overnight um and we have so many different targets and so you can get offshore and and see something that you’re just not prepared for at any second and so hopefully this will get you uh more in line with being able to go offshore and and nothing sneak up on you um give you the best chance to bring home the most amount of fish I like it I like I I like May uh offshore fishing and I’m curious I’ve been with you on the boat when it looks like we’re armed for bear and sure enough man you know so many of those rods or rigs come into play so move us in man what are we what is it that you like to bring what is it that you like to load the boat down with so unfortunately I bring I bring four main things and so most people are going to go to the golf stream and so okay again this is from the break into the deep water so um roughly 60 miles offshore um I’m talking anywhere from 100 generally 140t to 400t of water on The Brak um if we have to get into the deep water um chasing mahes or billfish um that may be a little different but consider everything I’m talking about on the break itself okay um so I’m bringing four different types of of tackle trolling tackle jigging tackle popping tackle and bottom fishing tackle and most people are going to go out there and expect a troll um that’s what I see the you predominant um I always take jigging and popping tackle even if I’m going Spanish mcro fish and I have jigging and popping tackle um I just love to do it um and then the bottom tackle because May 1st is when our grouper season starts um I have to bring an extra layer of stuff that this time of year I don’t I don’t really bring a a big that’s not a big part of what I bring but from May 1 on it is um and I’m going to kind of break down um what we’re going to Target with all those and then some tricks on on how to be set up for each one of those um so starting off with trolling um the the biggest targets or the most sought-after Targets in May are going to be Wahoo Tunas which could be black fins or yellow fins here depending on the on the year sometimes we get yellow fins sometimes we don’t um mahes and sailfish now there are also good numbers of blue marlin um and there’s other targets out there but those are the big four um and then for jigging we’re going to be targeting primarily tuna amberjacks African pompo and then assorted bottom fish and then with the popping gear we’re going to be primarily looking for Tunas and Mahi and then the bottom tackle obviously will be all your grouper Snapper trigger fish all that kind of stuff all your tasty Critters that live on the bottom I follow I follow that list and I mean I’m trying to keep up I’m trying to me I mean like you said there’s so many options I’m trying to keep up with that list so that I can refer to it as we move into the show but I think you know I guess I’m thinking what other people are thinking like all right that’s an impressive list where do you start I guess as in you know you might have a vision I mean when you leave the inlet do you have a plan in mind like I’m going to start doing this or is that not determined until you get out to 1240 feet of water and then you make a decision based on what you see once you’re out there okay so that’s a great question um typically like I said 90% of people are going to go out there to to troll and and primarily troll so that’s going to be the top of my list to and the reason I say that even for me that I may go for you know a long stretch of days where I know what’s been going on and what’s happening I always try to start off trolling to see what what’s changed during the night um this time of year we have the most influx of water meaning that the temperature gradients change um the wind is pushing in different uh bait so the bait could change from um sardines and mackerels to Flying Fish um this you know the squid are starting to move north as it warms up um so there’s tons and tons of stuff changing all the time so I normally start off trolling um and as far as like where I would start um I kind of preached this in North Carolina if you’re looking for meat fish I’m going to some sort of bottom structure and I’m going to head there and I’m going to look and use all my senses my eyes my nose um to find structure along the way that may be floating so like lines or temperature breaks or um a ball of bait with Birds on it or or porpuses on it um but traditionally I’m going to go to some sort of bottom structure um between 140 and and 400 foot somewhere between the first and second break um I may not stay where I start but that that if if I’m going to tell you to go offshore and look for fish it’s going to be on structure to start with does that make sense I’ll use this sort of pause as a chance to ask you this question because I’m I’m again I imagine some people have it like if I’m going Nearshore fish and I think a structure I might think of something like the Liberty ship but when as bottom structure but when you’re talking about 140 to 400 feet in bottom structure what is it that you’re referencing it’s the same it’s the same bottom structure that you would think of from 0 to 30 um there are big pieces of structure up and down the continental shelf um known places like the Steeples the SEO um the big rock you know these are Big places and then there are tons of smaller rocks um mixed in those depths between 140 and 400 foot and then the actual roll of the continental shelf itself so where you start to see the roll is where it goes from 150 it rolls to 225 and then it kind of plateaus for a little bit and then it rolls from 225 to say 350 that’s the second roll and so we actually fish the rolls and we fish those Rock structures such as like the same old or Steeples I follow that okay okay good deal all right so in the spring especially in May because we have so many targets when I start off with trolling stuff in my mind I’m going to have wire rigged um I like single strand either single strand stainless wire or piano wire whatever you’re most comfortable with um and these are going to be for balah rigs um Smalls and mediums um with a seawitch or without um this time of year I use more naked Bal whoos than I do any other time of the year um and the reason I do that is because um I can always slide a skirt down on the way I rig my baits because I have a real small loop at the end so if I needed to during the day if I found that that pink is you know the color that they’re keying on I can take my naked and slide a pink skirt down on it um but in general there are so many targets out there that naked Balo just Target everything they don’t you know um uh tuna is GNA eat it omahi is gonna eat it aah is gonna eat it everything’s going to eat it and I don’t have to worry that um that you know I have blue and white out there you know whatever um naked is is really really effective this time of year um but again wire because the Wahoos are still there we have Wahoos all winter we have Wahoos all the time but um this time of year it could be the the Wahoos could you could totally crush them at any time during May um so definitely have wire um I may also have some flu carbon or mono rigs um in the boat ready to to be rigged and the only really reason I would change to Mono is if I left the break and let’s say that the water on the brake is green or for some reason the water’s messed up or there’s no activity and I and I want to go offshore and look for a a weed line or a color change or a temperature break once I get past 400t of water I don’t feel like I’m going to be around a lot of Wahoos I feel like that’s primarily uh mahes uh possibly elephants sailfish white Marlin blue marlin that kind of thing so once I cross that threshold of of say 400 feet then I’m going mono or fluorocarbon and I’m not so much worried about losing uh fish uh to cut offs um just because there’s not as many Wahoos once you get past the break yeah um I I you know you anticipated my question I was thinking you know from what I’ve heard is if you make a wire decision you know there’s benefits and there’s negatives to it but I like the answer like the benefits far outweigh the negatives short of 400 feet and then the math just becomes different when you’re further away from waho territory that’s correct and and so the the biggest problem is when you’re on the Breakin if you get a waho bite on a mono rig or a Flor carb rig there’s a 99% chance you’re going to miss that fish and if you get two or three Wahoo bites having two or three Wahoos is a big deal a tuna fish will still eat the wire I’ve caught plenty of Tunas yellow fins and black fins on wire they they they’re not as picky here as they are say once you get to like organ Inlet where it’s a completely different fishery up there it is a it’s a different deal um but for here we’re fishing we’re fishing structure we’re fishing bait we’re fishing um we could have King mackerels mixed in or and obviously tons of barracudas especially in that 140 to 225 range so there’s all kinds of things out there that are going to have teeth that will cut you off um so for me again this is just the way I do it this is not gospel and you don’t you know don’t tell all your friends that you have to do it this way but for me this is this is what I I plan to do is wire on the brake if I get past the wire go with fluorocarbon Amano it’s just easier to deal with because the wire wire’s wire it’s it’s it’s um it doesn’t drop back very well so if you’re trying to catch a sailfish that’s beating the bait up and you need to drop back it’s a little bit harder to catch him because it doesn’t drop back smooth you know you have a a piece of wire that doesn’t just kind of collapse it it folds over and drags in the water um hey I gotta before you move on so the question that just came to mind and you might have just hit on it there at the end would be what F you know if you’ve caught Tunas you caught Mahi but what species of fish have you found in our fishery not the hus fishery that are the most wire shy where wire does affect the bite the most um honestly in our fishery I I I haven’t found I mean I guess yell fins would would still be the answer but when we catch elephants in May they’re so hungry they don’t care and and typically um they’re mixed in with all the other things so you could have a yellow fin a wahoo and a Mahi on at the same time I’ve done that multiple times in the past um that’s why our fishery is so um it’s great it’s also frustrating because you have to be prepared for all that stuff um and so yeah yell fins like if you saw yell fins while you were there and that’s when the popping rods and the jigging rods would come into effect before I changed my trolling spread but that if you were going to troll only that’s when I would go okay um I need to switch to fluorocarbon on a few more rigs so that if I’m not catching them on the wire maybe that’ll give me a chance to catch them okay I F I follow that mentality and I don’t know where you were headed I don’t know if we’re are we are we wrapping up the we’re still trolling okay Carry On okay so uh another great thing about this time of year is we have all these different species another horrible thing about this time of year is we have all these other species so um before the water inshore warms up where all of your um your what we would consider Nearshore Predators move in like your king mackerels like your false albors um they’re still on the break okay so um I I have gone through so many balos in a day that it’s just not even funny and um Balo are not going down price they’re they’re they’re expensive um and typically you catch a uh or get a bite off of king mackerel especially if you if you catch a king mael or catch a false avocor or God forbid the houndfish show up which are those long Gars um or uh we have a right now there’s a bunch of little baby I say baby like three foot long you know 20 pound spinner sharks offshore they’re all just waiting for the water to get warm enough so they can come in so another tip for going offshore in May is to have a bunch of alternative lures other than just balus um and I just have a couple of examples this is a this is a little lure from Islander uh designed to be run without bait it’s a octopus skirt on a traditional head this is a bullet head um I didn’t have a chance to grab a bunch of stuff but a lot of companies make small lures um meat fish Lures um Blue Water candy has a bunch of small lures that are designed to be run by themselves with no bait um uh uh Cedar plugs been around Forever Green machines that kind of stuff have plenty of that stuff on hand um there are days when you show up offshore and you could go through five dozen Valley whoos in an hour I’ve done it with trash fish and never have a real shot at catching something you want to bring home so bring small lures um be ready to go with small lures and um and mix them in your spread um and a lot of times what you’ll find is when you show up on The Brak and you’re you’re starting to learn what’s going on and where you need to be and how you need to be fishing um you’re dealing with all this trash and all this you know by catch um and so I don’t want to necessarily start off with a whole bunch of valo out there and just get annihilated right off the bat so I always mix some lures in there and uh and find out where I need to be and and then modify my my spread so like if I need to get away from those trash fish I can put primarily lures out until I get away from them and find out where the fish I want to catch are and then mix my spread back in with some natural bait um another thing is strip baits uh all all fall I I take my avocor and F you false avocor you catch offshore or inore wherever and I strip them up and I bring them along as strip baits so if you feel like it has to be natural in the water and not just a lure you can mix strip baits into your B spread but just make sure that you have enough stuff that when you’re trolling along you’re not wiped out by lunchtime and going you know what do I do next um so that’s a big key again that’s a that’s an early spring that’s that’s April May but really May um there can be tons and tons of by catch that you just don’t want to have um I I follow I just was uh tuning in to say man I’m I like this strategy I like having it and if I have any question I guess that comes to mind like I understand about trolling something to get out of undesirables before you get into desirables but like if you’re trolling Balo and you’re not in undesirables at what point like how long before you say it’s time to mix it up well for me I always have lures in my spread I I I I trust lures uh I’ve been making lures for 30 some years um I always have some lures in my spread and I have so like like you know everybody’s had a cedar plug a cedar plug is one of those Tuna catching baits that you can put out there and forget about it you know it’s working um and uh if there’s Tunas around you know you have a good shot at getting a bite I like to run it on my long riger out of the way um natural color paint it white paint it silver you know whatever um but that’s just a great bait all around um Mah will eat it wah will eat it but that’s a tuna ficient lure so if I’m trying to maximize my catch and I have uh more traditional Wahoo stuff closer and and Mahi stuff maybe in the middle that’s that’s looking for those fish I still have something out there that’s fishing for tuna specifically and um isn’t going to get you know messed up by all the undesir bles um and and this is another thing I want to add to this this is this is these are spoons again I’ve been talking about Cedar plugs and green machines and stuff this is a number four Clark spoon it’s the biggest Clark spoon they make um this is a three and a half drone spoon um this is a a one and a half drone spoon these are sometimes these are the thing that will save your day um I pulled them on small planers number three number four um usually with a 50 foot handline um and uh I have this kind of coiled up in the back and and I use those when especially in the spring if you’re marking fish down the water column a little bit and you just don’t seem to be getting bites on top very well something may be messed up with that top layer water and and it’s taken years and years and years to go to look at water and go okay I feel like it’s messed up today sometimes it’s just beautiful but there’s a mid layer if you talk to divers you know there’ll be thermoclines in the column itself and so if you’re marking fish say 50 60 80 feet down 100 feet down and you just can’t seem to get them up to eat your spread on top having a small planer and a spoon um you don’t need a planer rod for it you know planer rods are great I’m not saying anything about planer rods I can already tell my I’m gonna get spam about he hates planer rods I’m not saying that I’m saying that the general guy that goes out there can take a normal trolling rod with a number three number four planer 50 foot of 100 pound test leader and uh a drone spoon and put it below that dirty water line and everything eats a drone spoon Mahi Tunas Wahoos Kings everything does um and that’ll just let you know that you’re in the right area but you have to get a bait down to them okay that’ll kind of that’ll kind of cut out the um I feel like I should be here I’m marking fish everything looks good I just can’t get bit this might help you decide to stay and then try something else like jigging which I’ll talk about here in a second but when you’re trolling this this just allows you one more piece of the puzzle to to to align everything to figure out how they’re going to feed what they’re going to feed on um just another way to get a clue on how to catch fish that day all right I mean I get it I like it I’m a fan of a drone spoon and I know you have a long history of using bitless lures with lots of success I think you know and just so we have time to talk about everything this might be my final thoughts on trolling and then let’s move to the next the next option on any given day yeah that’s that’s all for trolling on on this one basically um I’m going to use trolling to go look and so while I’m trolling I’m staring at my bottom machine and I’m looking at those rocks and I’m looking at I’m looking for bait I’m looking for fish I’m looking for any kind any signs of life okay um this just happened the other day and I was talking about using all your senses as I’m trolling along and you’re looking for birds and turtles and porposes and all that kind of stuff to kind of give you an idea of of if there’s life around one thing you can use is your nose and it sounds so weird until You’ experienced it but you’re trolled along and all of a sudden you you get a whiff of something sweet or or it has a sweet but it’s a you know fishy odor but it’s sweet um look into the wind because obviously it’s coming from up wind and look for the oil spot because um this happened just this past week troll along smelt something looked up 100 yards in front of me I saw a big oil sheen by the time I got there um the the current had pushed it away from where the fish were so I had to circle back around and to find the fish but that gave me all the clue I needed to where to go find those fish uh that day it was a a packet Tunas eating sardines um and the blood in or the oil from the blood of all the sardines after they’re eating and and destroying it floats to the top and actually leaves an oil sheen which has a smell to it so using all your senses is a big deal so anyway that’s that’s my last thing about trollan um for me question Gary no man I’m just I’m just listening in I’m I’m enjoying this I’m enjoying the show that’s good so the next thing I’m going to talk about is jigging because when I go offshore I primarily I think trolling to find and then I think jigging or popping to catch and for me jigging is um it’s it’s a it’s a it’s a rifle versus a shotgun approach so when I’m trolling I have a shotgun approach I a big wide spread I can put multiple things out that make multiple different action swimming actions and some are aggressive some are smooth some are deep um and once I get bit on that and find a place where there’s fish I can take my rifle scope which is jigging and I can Target get exactly where those fish are especially Tunas in the spring yellow fins black fins um I can mark them on the machine at a certain spot on the Rock okay let’s say I’m trolling over the Steeples and on the upcurrent side of the rock I find a school of Tunas every time I cross it I get bit well now I can take my and stuff and I can go Target that exact school of fish make a drift over them soon as I get past it pull up make another drift over it all my Anglers can fish in the fish the whole time you’re hooking fish you’re Landing fish you’re pulling up but the time between trolling over them circling back around and trolling over them again is cut in half or or less with a jig um jigging in the spring for me is pretty simple there’s basically two different jigs that I’m going to use the most long jigs for all your pelagics Tunas waho mahes and they will all eat this and then I use short jigs uh for all my bottom Critters and like African pompo and so like this is a Rosco jig this is just a small fat flutter jig um if I am pelagic fishing again tuna waho Mah it’s long jig um 50 class jigging tackle um and I am using my trolling time to find where I need to be jigging and then it’s usually speed jigging metered line is a big deal so I can find the fish drop it to their level not below their level and fish just those fish okay um later in the day if I want a bottom fish with jigs then you hit the bottom you don’t take up any slack you jig hard Let The Jig flutter back down as soon as it touches jig it again that’s your grouper Snappers African pompo that kind of thing um but so jigging for me again it it’s the rifle approach after I’ve used the shotgun um to find where I need to actually put the lure um and then popping is kind of also the same thing popping is kind of a it’s a it’s it’s more of a shotgun approach than than jigging because you’re attracting stuff to the sound of the popper versus putting a lure that makes no sound or noise in their face um there are times in the spring especially when the first big herd of flying fish show up that everything stops looking around and they they only key in on flying fish um and when that happens trolling can be uneffective um not necessarily for Mahi and waho but for Tunas um some days when the flying fish are there and those Tunas are keyed in that’s all they want and so that’s when popping takes over the entire Forefront if I’m seeing Tunas eat flying fish and I’m seeing flying fish take off and running and and I’m not getting bit consistently or aggressively on the um on the trolling stuff I’m going to pretty much instantly go to popping um popping is two different things um traditional poppers big cup looks like a flying fish basically in the body and then stick baits which is a top water floating bait but it it has a a more aerodynamic face so when you pull this one it kind of slithers through the water and makes some ripples this one when you pop it it actually makes a big popping noise which emulates the sound of a flying fish Landing they have a big head they kind of land non gracefully I guess um so if again if I’m seeing fish and I’m just not being able to get them on the troll um sometimes they’re just keyed into hearing them them land and they run to the noise and so if you can get you know multiple people popping at the same time those Tunas will key in and come straight to you um I’ve done it multiple multiple times especially in the spring and in the fall um but you can get really really frustrated watching Tunas eat flying fish and trolling around them and they’re just they’re not keyed into what you’re doing because they’re listening for that Splash and with all the wake coming off your boat and the sound of the engines they’re they’re just not interested in looking at that um so big key I’m going to say it multiple times but big big key take popping rods have poppers on board some some trips that will save your entire day and it’s a lot of fun it’s it’s it’s a blast um so any questions about popping or jigging um yeah actually I mean the the popping I followed a little bit more just in this sense in the sense of this question and I know you addressed it but I just want to make sure I’m following so if if you’re trolling and looking and I’m I’m thinking about the general audience that doesn’t have the instincts or the time on the water as you so if if I’m if I see jigging and I’m trolling like what is it that gives me confidence that I can switch over to it is that I’ve caught some fish and I’ve marked them all in the same area Andor you’re marking fish on the machine Andor you’re seeing bottom that you like like for Joe Blow who is comfortable with trolling as you pointed out 90% is what they’re going to go to and they’re just going to stay comfortable but if we’re trying to encourage them to try new things what’s the best indicator that hey man jiggin might pay off for you pull the rods even though that’s your comfortable pull the trolling rods even though that’s your comfort okay so again jigging is going to require a Target first and foremost you can jig with the best gear and have the most perfect form and not be where the fish are and not catch anything and when you’re drifting you’re not covering any water so the the main answer to your question is I need to have a Target so let’s say I’m going to use the Steeples again I’m trolling around on the Steeples and I’m getting some bites from Tunas and I am also primarily marking them on the structure okay up in the water column somewhere from 150 foot and up typically below 150 it’s going to be mixed in with Jacks and other Critters um sometimes they are down that deep but on a on a more traditional scale 150 foot or 125 foot and higher is where you want to mark them um but you have to have a Target to drop a jig to um you’re you’re and when I go back to that metered line that’s how you stay in that zone so my metered line I have I use a couple different kinds but primarily it goes 25 or or 10 me 25 foot or 10 meters which is 33 feet and I can tell my clients or if I’m dropping myself I can say okay I’m marking these fish at X that’s three colors and I drop three colors and then I work it up from there and then go back three colors um but you have to have a a Target to drop a jig to um random drifting over the structure sometimes works if they’re spread out and they’re on top um you know the top 50 foot you’re not really marking them in big balls but you’re getting bit in a in a certain area you can drift that area and just drop you know three colors four colors keep it high enough so the Jacks don’t wear you out and jig um but again for me I want to see a defined ball of fish uh Target and and that’s how I that’s how I deem it’s worth pulling out the jigging rounds okay man yeah I think I think I guess my question if I were to be able to Reas it is like do you have to catch fish to have confidence to go to the jigging and and you’ve answered that like you’re marking it you’re seeing what you want on the machine I mean catching doesn’t hurt but like marking on the machine hey we’re almost to a time I’m gon to ask you to give an abbreviated acknowledgement of bottom fishing and then we’re going to thank you for your time yep okay so again May 1 bottom uh grouper season opens um don’t leave a lot of people leave the break to go bottom fish you know midday if it’s slow they run in Shore and bottom fish all the structure that we’re fishing offshore um holds bottom fish uh if if if it’s an actual piece of rock or or a piece of mud it holds fish um again for me offshore the number one bait’s going to be a whole squid um I use I buy five pound boxes um I rig them on a standard for me it’s just a three-way swivel uh bottom rig about a 3 and 1/2t ler circle hook a loop for your lead uh I do use heavy leads in the golf stream so I’m usually using 20 ounces and it’s drift fishing because you’re covering water it’s not like inore where you’re trying to Anchor up and be on a piece of bottom and and you can add jigging in there hit the hit the bottom with the jig don’t take up any slack jig it high let it let it bounce off the bottom again and and as you drift make sure you keep contacting the bottom um that’s pretty much that’s what I’ll say about bottom fishing just don’t leave the break if you leave the break at noon because for whatever reason the fishing hasn’t picked up yet or it’s slow or whatever that water is moving and changing all the time so if it changes at one o’clock and you’ve left at 12 to go bottom fishing in Shore you may miss the best part of the entire day that happens a ton this time of year and one more thing I I’ll say having having a couple of extra spinning rods 20 lb 30 lb spinning rods rigged up and ready to go um I like to have at least two rods sometimes four rods with little this is a six o circle hook um smaller circle hook than what you’d think because you can catch a whole lot of big fish on really small circle hooks um and having squid always always always take squid with you and so a real quick way to rig a squid you can actually slowroll this if like around uh if there’s a bunch of grass or if there’s a like a log or a Target you want to stop and try to fish it um you can slow troll this or you can pitch it um just take a squid and look for the mantle take the hook go through the tip of the mantle okay really close to the end and pop the hook out okay and then spin the hook so I go all the way in then I spin the hook so I’m not going that far into the bait and I’m coming back out of him and watch what happens to the squid as I slide it back onto the hook see how it goes straight again you can actually troll this and the mantle will keep the hook upright so if you have a ton of grass and there’s a bunch of fish in the area but you can’t really troll a traditional spread you can take your spinning rods and and Squid from a five pound box Tha them out nice and good rig them like this and slow troll them across uh that nasty grass and catch mahes and stuff it’s a great it’s a sa if you can’t fish traditionally I always have some spinning rods rigged up with um circle hooks and I always always take squid always and then one other thing I wanted to show you is a Bucktail I always have bucktails on the boat um I like these for jigging this one is a a blue water candy one with a blade on the back you can also put a grub on the back of it uh 3 to 5 ounces these catch everything you can cast the targets you can let it hit the bottom uh it works the mid column every single thing out there will eat a a Bucktail so another thing to have just in case everything else you know uh if you need that option it’s nice to have it um Rick Rosen I’ll tell you what impresses me right now is that I know we could have this conversation for three hours but yet you have concisely and organized that’s not a word presented May offshore Playbook I can’t imagine someone doing a better job man I mean so much information a lot for us to unpack maybe watch the episode a couple times as always man thanks for being a part of the fisherman’s post Community thank you so much for having Gary it’s been a a great relationship it has been I’m going to go to David and wrap this thing up but I’m already looking forward to next time thank you that was so informative wait let me try that again that was so informative he had so much information oh yeah that could I mean we could have gone on and on I mean he could have gone on and on yeah it’s amazing so and and I don’t get to go out in the GF stream I’ve like been up there a few times but some of the best fishing I’ve ever had has been in the Gulf Stream So I’m I am fired up and ready to go um I’m fired up and ready to go too like yeah talking about big fish big targets big water like it’s hard not to get excited yeah Wahoo fishing I went on a wahoo fishing trip one time and it was the conditions were perfect but that was like probably hands down like the best fishing of like of my lifetime was that on the Gulf Stream catching wahoo well I’ll tell you what you have to do and this is a tough task is you have to come up with David’s singular I have to add that I have to add that clarification word after the other podcast David’s singular best takeaway okay I have I have a few but I’m only gonna mention one deal okay so this is you know in the beginning if you’re going out in May like we’ve been talking about today you want a naked Balo because everything eats them on a wire leader to keep your other fish from from breaking it off so I would be like if you’re going off the GF just get as many B who as you can get together get some wire leader troll them around and see what’s out there um that’s good that’s a good takeaway I like that and I didn’t realize that either I mean I certainly am familiar with Balo but not that philosophy of singular you know or naked Balo what about what do we call it what about the what about question like if you had been me what question did I not ask that you would have in this chair I will have to think about that because he covered a lot of inform so well I have some oh you have some yes because this is going to be the jump start of our bonus content bonus content okay and so and again he did a great job covering but what I’m going to get him to talk about a little bit in bonus content is when you’re jigging what is the best action what is the best retrieve method how do you coach people to actually you know impart action on The Jig and the retrieve and then same question for the popper because I remember being out there with him and I’ve caught my black fin tuna with him on popper and saying like how long do you let it sit because if you’re mimicking a flying fish then you want after the pop after the land you need to let it sit because that’s what a flying fish does so I want to see what if anything he’s done to fine-tune that process that he taught me years ago huh so there I I did your job oh well I I do have a question great partnership you did your job you did a good job with it too I gota just leave now well how about you thank our sponsors and we’ll close this out yeah we just want to thank uh port signs and Marine Warehouse for sponsoring the podcast and again if you’ve got an interest in sponsoring the podcast just contact the fish’s post yeah and one other reminder again we are offering early release um early release of podcast to members to our weekly inore fishing report members as well as the bonus content you know only available behind the paid wall but thank you so much for tuning into this podcast and it feels so good to be back offering you the saltwater podcast series