Former Tigers and Bulldogs champion Dene Halatau joins Woodsy this week to talk the Tigers ’05 premiership, time at the Dogs, return to Wests and how the Bunker and HIA system works.
Subscribe! https://bit.ly/LiSTNRSportSubscribe
Download the LiSTNR App: https://smart.link/yh8dj3abqhakg
Follow on Apple Podcasts: https://podcasts.apple.com/au/podcast/footy-talk-rugby-league-podcast/id1669159221
Follow on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/show/3bQGQ28QMaJFYNXfvBj7bR
and uh welcome to the latest edition of Woods’s footy Club tour and mate none other than one of my great mates Dean H how you going buddy Woody I’m going well mate how are you I’m very good mate I’m I’m pretty excited today because you know I’ve been around five clubs a lot of players and mate you are up there you’re you’re probably pedestal in the uh top three medalist mate oh wow I wanted mate thank you no it’s good to um good to come on the show I see all your social media and all the people you have on so um I was happy to get the call up so mate talk to us first you want to go for a little bit of the career and then obviously talk about what you’re doing at the moment um but you’re a young bloke from New Zealand how did you get across to Australia well my uh my dad back in the um 80s was looking for work he was actually shearing sheap back in New Zealand believe it or not for to be shearing sheap um but he was shearing cheap in New Zealand and uh late 80s it was a big construction boom in Australia particularly for commercial spaces and hros buildings and what whatnot so he um he come over to Australia to find some work as a rigger and a scaffolder and um obviously there was plenty so he decided to pack the family up as a lot of lot of KS were doing back in the late ‘ 80s early 90s packed the family up and we we got on a plane I was only 4 years old when when we come over so first stopped Sydney and never left that was basically it so it was Aller oneway ticket yeah oneway ticket pretty much uh dad chasing some work we all came with him um and uh yeah land landed in C what a place to to land in and um that was as simple as it was just chasing work for the old man that’s crazy isn’t it so as a young BL did you always want to because there’s a lot of you know a lot of young kiwi kids that I know their aspirations are play for the All Blacks did you always want to play for the All Blacks or was sport your thing no it wasn’t definitely wasn’t the All Blacks because Dad was a leagy when he play when he was younger so he played League back in New Zealand and he and my mom were actually involved with starting up a Leagues Club in our local area so they started a club or helped start a club and um he was playing a grade for them so it was always kind of leaning towards League now I can’t remember if he played rugby at school when he was younger but um it was just just league and because we got here so young like our exposure was like follow what dad was doing he got us into a local League side and then it was just League from then on so we still had a sof spot for the All Blacks growing up because they were the grass they still are the grass and um they’re the best they’re the best organization in the world yeah so that was it was an easy follow right being a kiwi uh and having one national team that was doing pretty well so definitely followed them through my young years and then so your Juniors with marylands is that right well before that my first Club was went with for magpie that’s a huge Club yeah massive club and that was the reason that that I ended up there was because it was so big my dad asked asked around a bit we were living like around the Hills area um which there wasn’t a lot of league around there but he asked around and they said went with full param not too far away um it’s a it’s a good competition and it’s a big Club so it was just Dad asking a few friends and and got us into that club and yeah never really looked back it was such a good club to get in involved with early days um always good club events big days r Park was always packed um so it was a good initiation for a young BL in footy and then when I was 12 I flipped over to Maryland so um yeah so how did you get from cuz that’s that’s par District yes so how did you get from par because you didn’t you play your your Junior footy with the Tigers I did I know I played Matthews app I played Matthews app par um which was under 16s at the time um did like the summer coaching school/ development Squad things in 13s and 14s there which most um districts do and then um yeah after the Matthews year we had a really good year won the comp um undefeated had a really good side and uh it was enjoyable but I was kind of like a fringey like I wasn’t playing like a lot of minutes it was getting bits here and there and then when it came time to tral for the S ballside which was 18s at the time so I was turning 17 trying to play a year up I didn’t I didn’t actually make the side I got I got cut from even I didn’t even make like a um a training squad or anything squ yeah he didn’t make the summer Squad so I got cut and i’ I’d actually been I’d met um Gary Freeman the the year before the whiz yes I met the whiz um in a New South Wales Academy TEAM Academy teams are just like throw together put your hand up you want to play they basically just give you some extra coaching it’s kind of like an aspirational team that you can just apply for and whiz took a team of us to England and we went on a tour it was all paid for by ourselves and fundraising so how old how old are you at this AG 16 16 so you traveled to new to England yeah yeah with with a bunch of dads that put their hand up to I put my management right so they coach and manager and whatnot and we had um two full squads go over so that was sort of in between the Matthews year and then trying out for S ball and um and then yeah whiz said he must have heard that I didn’t make the squad over at paramet and he said I can get you a run at balain if you want there’s um some space in the S ball Squad go a few trials train up see how you go and yeah I was lucky enough to to get a start in the S blls side there and um I was a b man target from then on how good’s that so so and you worked your whole up through the ball flag Reserve grade so first year played ball when I was 17 got a few flag games in as well that year next year same thing played um EST ball and then into uh Jersey flag I think I got a a reserve grade game at the end of the year which I would have been 18 then um I was playing like centers and wing and fullback I was like an outside back utility but I wasn’t that fast I just I just ended up playing there and then um and then yeah got a reserve great start the year later and then it was sort of lot just bu bump bump who who was the coach of that Reserve gr squ uh Peter camro oh yep yeah so he coached he coached that side back then uh Jersey flag Al Heder we had like um yeah some actually Steve speechley was my first coach at the Tigers in um EST ball and then the whiz took over so speechly couldn’t how how was The Whiz as a coach he was good he was pretty energetic as everyone knows when they bump into a meet him it’s like firm handshake high like upbeat uptempo sort of guy um we probably we definitely underachieved we didn’t win a game in SG ball under is um and we thought we were going to do really well because we have Gary Freeman club club great coaching us and um kwi International obviously someone that I actually loved as a kid growing up as well um but yeah we didn’t have much success but he he trained us hard like I Lear I Lear quickly how to sort of switch on and become a hard trainer well one thing I I remember grown up mate the hardest train I ever did was har mat s ball yeah because it was just local coaches that were just rain well well they yeah they want to teach you what it’s like to be in the system right and the first thing that you can do is FL FL your team and say hey this is how hard it’s going to be when you get to first grade and it’s a shock it’s the first time you’ve experienced it as a kid You’ you’ve trained probably hard with your Junior clubs at times but nothing compared to being in a rep yeah a rep Squad so um yeah that was that was the initiation and then so when was the first like moment that you go all right I’m going to have a crack at this and playing first grade um to be honest it probably wasn’t until the year before of the year of debuting like I was just playing footy because I loved it and I was in the rep system so that was a bonus and I didn’t mind the training like the training was like I I could do it um and I had some success on the field like I was playing well enough and I was just enjoying being a junior rep player into a like sort of fling Reserve grade player and just having some success on the weekends and and being a part of a team and then uh it would have been 2003 pre season I got to do like a couple of sessions with the first grade Squad didn’t get like called in fulltime or anything I just did like a handful of sessions and then I strung about three or four games together in reggies where I scored a couple of tries I was playing the centers and was playing well enough that sheny gave me a call and said come in and start training with us we can have you start training with us so were you working at this time as yeah I was working at um at a video shop uh video easy not around anymore the video was at eping video easy um so I was uh yeah I was literally scanning videos for customers and going to UNI at the same time and what were we doing uni Health Science yeah doing it all yeah I didn’t finish it it’s one of my biggest regrets to be honest with you not finishing it I got I got a long way through it actually I finished like um I got over halfway and then I just turfed it because I just wasn’t interested anymore um that’s not a good lesson for anyone listening or watching that’s youngster get get your uni degree and get through it um but yeah I got a few games together and Shany brought me up and then it was just like train yep play another couple of good games in reggies and then injuries opportunity and then what happened there because you said injuries opportunities you know S one more before that was there a cool group of players that you went through har match ball that come with you through [ __ ] and and Reserve grade CU you come through a pretty good Junior some Junior players when you because obviously a couple years later you win the comp with those was Benji in that so Benji I didn’t play any Junior reps with he went straight from high school to first grade unbelievable so that that was a jump for Benji but like Robbie was in um the junior rep system there Bronson Harrison um there was a few guys that sort of were a bit older than me that played flag with like Nick Bradley gal oh Wing Marco hin Luke oaka um B and coupl there a few guys that ended up playing first grade like a few years before me or a couple years before me um so that was um yeah good to sort of get up into first grade and see those guys around and feel comfortable being around those guys um but that were the the guys I was around and obviously Bronson went on to play for New Zealand win a World Cup and um you Robbie ended up playing for Australia New South Wales and having you know being probably you know tied with Benji as the best West hogers player ever you know what I mean so um yeah those guys obviously had some success in front of them just off off the foot like off the your playing chat do you think it’s funny how they’re all together now because even brunton’s doing Pathways at West yeah yeah it’s it’s they’ve all reun reunited the crew and even like Johnny Morris right Johnny he came in at um what 2006 to 2009 I think he played and played every game for those three years that he played there what a professional yeah super professional guy partnered up with Benji they become really tight and he’s back there now Patty Richards is doing some kicking um and some Edge work hano’s assistant coach blue shirt like it’s old gang together so isn’t it yeah it’s it’s good to see them are you happy for them like yeah yeah my word yeah um you know it’s kind of like maybe four or five years ago you you think how would it be if like a whole bunch of that old crew got together and started working at the club in some capacity they’re all in like significant roles now and they’re all all those guys I mentioned they’re great fellas they know their footy like Benji is a genius when it comes to rugby league um Robbie’s the same Robbie’s a roller coaster but he he loves his he’s passionate about it he’s just to win he wants to win yeah he’s so so competitive and hano’s the worker right he’ll bring the work ethic and yeah and chat you know thing and one thing that sets me out from all those folks they care about West Tigers y someone from outside in that’s trying to start a career of being a coach like yeah Benji is starting a career but he actually has a genuine passion to be a West Tigers Legend like once the club to be better yeah well you you talk to people from from cluband and um they want to know what their DNA is about right and and you’ve been a few clubs and that’s a search that every Club goes to with their teams is like here’s what we stand for here’s what we’re about and it’s a little bit sometimes like romanticized like it’s everyone looks back and thinks about old times but there’s something that always comes through from from byone years and when I was at the dogs I felt it like there was some some aspects of the dogs when I got there that came from the 80s and 90s and and it was definitely apparent um and at the Tigers it’s a short history like they’re they’re a very young Club but those guys are really key figures in that history so they know they do know what it’s about and it’s good to see them there yeah it’s really good to see isn’t it and I’m similar with you like when I was at dogs I didn’t really feel that much because they was going through a lot of Chang a transition per but then when I went to canala I could feel the the culture at Cano was just old boys like probably not the best talent but jeez they worked hard you know and that’s what bred through and I think that’s what Benji that going to do and I think it’s a really good thing for him but back to 2003 your debut how does that come about for Dean uh yeah so as I said I’ve done a few training sessions with the squad over a few weeks and then um I was getting ready for a reserve grade game um the weekend that the Tigers were playing Manley I think it was I can’t even remember what round it was but it was sort of midseason um and uh I think it was like the Saturday morning so I was in my mind getting ready to play Reserve grade the following day and um I got a call from sheny early in the morning get yourself to train in um we got a few injury clouds so okay um get in the car come to train in and man I immediately got nervous got excited uh probably fumbled by words of shiny like trying to thank him for for the opportunity and um I got myself to training Robbie was actually brought into the side earlier that week because it was um an injury to one of her hookers I can’t remember if it was mey or if was Darren Center y but one of them was carrying an injury and um they were likely going to be out so Robbie was already in the in the 7even so he was playing already yep he was already playing and I got there and then uh the injury was Chris Patterson so front rower um and he went down couldn’t get through like a fitness test before warmup so I replaced a front rower on the bench as a 88 kilo center from Reserve grade uh and I was scratching my head trying to figure out where I fit in I didn’t know where I was going to fit into that but I don’t think sheny knew at the time either he just wanted to reward me and least he back me a CRA yeah and um he backed me into 3 minutes the last 3 minutes of the game hey it’s 3 minutes more than what lot of people have done it was um it was a weird experience he like I go I’m my way to the game and I’m nervous as heck like stopping a few times to go to the bathroom get there and um you know you you’re about to play the top grade at lard overal was against Manley so holy grow yeah so it was um it was you know pretty big moment and i’ organized tickets for family friends had a bunch of people there watching and I’m just sitting on the bench just waiting just watching the clock go by Robbie gets on before halftime and I go it’s going to happen soon and then it just kept going by and I go it was a bit of an anti climax yeah I’m doing laps up and down the sideline looking up with the coach’s box as you do when you T to get on yeah and then um there was a probably a try scored by Manley to put him like sort of out of range they ended up getting a comfortable lead on us and then uh he just put in the centers Nick Bradley come off um and then yeah I had uh tackled Steve men’s which was the whole lot of my my first grade debut was tackling Steve men’s because idolized him as well y uh and also tack tackled Jason Ferris he was a halfback for them and I I put a good shot on him and weird exper I I put him on the ground I picked him up and dropped him on his back and he’s just laying on the ground looking at me and going hey good shot good shot I was I was oh yeah okay thanks man didn’t expect that in first it was weird so um yeah that was was that was my memory of my first game like was pretty clear yeah don’t you think it’s a bit different now like remember like you see all the young kids debut now there’s videos and like sheni would have just told you on Captain run yeah that was pretty much how different is the the eras changed haven’t they yeah it is it’s um yeah you see there like a lot of things posted on socials from clubs about the big moment and um you know I love seeing it like I get goosebumps watching yeah people debut um Sam Stone Street at sharks the other week right scores a try in the the South Western Corner in front of all his friends and all his like Dell teammates and that like that was I was up on on my seat in the commentary box just like getting Goosebumps for him it it’s lot that isn’t it like just for him to just that moment in front of his like you play three I pa eight minutes in my debut like and if we got to score a try in front of all our family and friends mate how like you envy him but you’re also so happy for him at the same time 100% yeah so how many more games did you play that year uh I think nine nine or 10 so I managed to get through the majority of the rest of the season got more than three minutes in the next couple games yeah I got a few starts which was good uh played against the sharks at lart in my next up I started centers and um yeah I got a couple of meat pies in that game at like out overal Sunday afternoon sun beaming down big crowd it was um was pretty awesome and um it’s actually Terry Hill that put me over really yeah Terry Hill put me over for my first couple of tries and obviously sad um sad news in the last week with with his pass he’s uh such a character and um for a young guy coming into first grade to be around someone who was so prominent in rugby league like he was on the footage show and everyone knew he was resume because he’d already played for Australia New South Wales been involved in some big moments it was um for me as a 20-year-old kid to get put over the over the trail on by TZ who he called me out to goes they know just run a hole run a hole oh really so I just told you yeah and he skipped out bang put me over you got any stories for us on TZ cuz there’s a lot of people that that are PG rated obviously yeah yeah no look he um it’s funny that I’m in a I’m in a chat group with some some old boys and uh actually I think you’re in that chat group no you’re not you won’t be yet cuz you need to retire before you get that that yet before you get in that chat group but um there’s some stories being shared um in that group just remembering TZ and um yeah I guess he always used to pick on Cory Pearson quite a bit really yeah he used to get into Cory Pearson he was a champion guy P he’s he’s running ladbs or Sports bit now I’m not too sure yeah he’s been he’s been working in betting for a long time um he used to rip into him he used to rip to Mickey Butner he used to come to the gym and asked Mickey how many tickles he was going to make on the weekend cuz he he said he couldn’t tackle and uh he ripped into uh Robbie Farah quite a bit when he came into grave oh really jeez Robbie wouldn’t like that well they went up back at each other because you how confident Robbie is right and um TZ would try and shorten him up and say okay young fell like you know know your place sort of thing and and then Robbie would come back at him and then they’ just be into each other um TZ probably would have he probably would have sort of half respected that yeah because that would have been young TZ when he was young yeah I think um a lot of those guys that when they see a bit of front from young guys they might they still want to Reign them in but they’re probably appreciate a bit because you’re right he he did carry that when he was in his younger days as well yeah he was he was a funny man and obviously condolence to all his family out there and friends um and then next year obviously so are you full-time or you still yeah I signed up to go fulltime at the end of that season so got a got an upgrade extension which is football players favorite no more work words no more work be a foot player 24/7 yeah Dr a video job it wasn’t scanning videos uh anymore six weeklys for $6 T Tuesdays so so how did you feel like yourself like obviously you played first grade of the year before but you weren’t a full fully full-time contract player you’ve gone next year you signed you’ve upgraded are you sort of pinching yourself a little bit oh yeah definitely um you know like I as I said when I was playing foot as a youngster and even coming through those rep grades I didn’t really see myself as being a first grader until it actually became reality and um I still love the game and I was pinching myself like and I’m I’m such a fan of the game too even more so now that I’ve retired um I watch a lot more football and obviously um with my commentary geig at at the Abc I’m I’m I’m covering a lot of games I’m watching a lot of footy uh so um yeah I was pinching myself for sure that I was at that level playing first grade alongside the likes of Terry Hill and Mark O’Neal and Darren C and Brad and whoever else came in after that you know like it’s it’s it was a fair Squad there some good players man and um yeah it was it was cool to to be able to get to do that as a as a full-time gig and then so you got your full season in 2004 um I think you played for the kiwis was it the end of the year was that your first tour with them yeah so 2004 I started the season had a big off you know your first offseason in first grade did you train all did you train the whole break yeah just like I’m going to I’m going to come and hit the ground running right so trained all through the break got into the PR season felt like I felt the grass like I just felt so fit so strong put a few kilos on so coming into 04 I was so what you 92 this time yeah 92 kilos and then um yeah got through like a pretty good season I think I played all about two or three games maybe I missed a few through injury and then um I got called up into the um the kwi squad to tour at the end of the year and uh it was an experience like was come on tour with the squad there was a few young guys in that Squad that probably weren’t going to get much game time but those young BLS uh Sunny bill was one of the young guys at the time um Roy satazi um who else was in there that was youngish uh not Jamal Alisa wasn’t young then he was a bit older was that like vatu was he yeah uh I think money might have come in the year after that um maybe a couple years after that but Sunny bills are probably the Frank P I think sorry um Frankie Pritchard not Frank Frankie Pritchard would have been close to it then as well but there was a little wave of guys coming through there then Louis Anderson Louis Anderson remember him remember him yeah spend a lot of catlin’s dragons yeah yeah um and anyway I went away not expecting to get game time at all just more for the experience and be around the squad and ended up getting a a couple of tests in one against France and then one against England right at the back end the last last test against England so how’s it so you you who’s your first game against France was it France yeah um when you’re setting up for the hacker because I speak to a lot of Ls like I know when I was playing for Australia and you sit you stand alongside it and my it is just it gives me goosebumps how’s it for you you know proud Ki New Zealand are yeah how’s it feeling doing that well if I’m honest I was really nervous of stuffing up like yeah because um obviously there’s a lot of significance to doing that before the match and for a national team from New Zealand and as I said I came to Australia when I was quite young uh even though you listen to me talk I’m I’m aie I’m like I’ve lived here my whole life right um but I always supported the carers when I was a kid and my dad always drilled that into me and um so getting the opportunity to do the hucker for the first time I was like this is pretty big uh I bet not stuff up so I got um if you remember a back row from the Warriors and played for the storm as well Wang coru he he was the man that um taught me um he’s very uh very strong in his moldi culture and speaks fluent moldi and really yeah and he he hosts some TV shows in New Zealand from M TV and um anyway he he taught me how to perform the hacker and he said to me goes look don’t don’t worry about if if you mess up that’s okay but as long as you as long as you do it with pride and with with Mana with strength then you know be right you’ll get through it and um you you’ll get better and better as you go the more you do it hopefully you get more opportunities to do it and so good to see yeah so I’m pretty sure I stuffed it up in my first go but it was pretty cool to do it like Ruben Wiki was playing that game as well so like as long as you’re not like Jason Ning on smiling when he did it that remember that I played with him in that game too yeah Gypsy he’s uh again Legend of a BL you know one thing I’d love to know like when I watch obviously the huers there’s so many different versions like do you use prepare that all week or is it something you brought up as a kid that you know all these different versions of them yeah there’d be different versions based on like potentially where people um are from like from their area from um also maybe schools that they go to or um teams that they play for they might have their own version of a haaka um the one that we’ve done traditionally for the kwis is kamate yep um and uh there’s sometimes been uh versions that we’ve changed up so before the 2008 centenery test um we sort of added a little a little like a few differences to it um that was one at the scg yes yeah yeah so it was to be a little bit more inclusive of the demogra like there was some Sone in there at the start and um it was just a a different version of of aaka just to sort of signify a different time or different moment or whatever um so yeah but yeah you do see different versions the All Blacks do different versions as well I’ve seen they’re sort of like in a V aren’t they yeah and they get down on the ground they change formations but they work with like and we did as one of the que is you do work with like cultural experts that will come and sort of walk through if we’re going to change something here’s a significance of the meaning and this is what it’s going to look like w yeah yeah I’ve always wondered that because like I remember the old traditional where they just you know I think what did you say it was called K yeah the normal one but then as sort of we’ve got you know gone on in the years they they’ve sort of changed it up now and you got BL are standing in the I think Fisher Harris what he had something in his hand he might have had a tiar or like some sort of weapon right yeah weapon yeah so and something I never saw grown up as a kid yeah yeah it’s just to sort of show a little bit more of the culture and M gives you Goosebumps yeah it does it does it’s pretty cool and how was it when you ran out like unbelievable yeah unreal um the the French game was weird cuz it was like in a stadium it was in carcasson actually which is like south of France um where Robin Hood prince of Thieves that’s that’s an old ref a lot of the the old movie with Kevin I think it was filmed around that castle there um but yeah it was a French crowd um not huge but um still pretty cool M the following test that I played which was up in Hull um I can’t remember which stadium it was at but um that one was pretty awesome we we’d already lost um two games in the series uh and the Tigers had actually flown my parents over for the match so they organized to get them over to um to watch the game they literally arrived at the ground 10 minutes before kickoff and we’re in the like next to the players enclosure as we’re lining up for the anthem so I looked up and seen him there it was did you know that was coming or I wasn’t supposed it was supposed to be a surprise but one of my cousins actually blew the surprise when I was speaking to her earlier that week she goes oh I bet you can’t wait to see your parents coming over there I was like huh parents what are you talking about yeah um so she busted it for them but uh it oh that would have been an unreal experience Goosebumps bit emotional um so as you do mate yeah yeah it bring a bit of a TD ey now to see how passionate the players are like when you hear them like we were only doing airac day the other day and Char n clook tears was just coming down his eyes yeah it’s um it’s great to see when there’s a there’s some meaning behind the game like if it’s Anzac Day where there’s a significance for um obviously both countries Australia New Zealand and um you know the freedoms that we sort of um we experience now or if it’s representing your country one of our old teammates um Kevin Nama when he plays for fij yeah they Sing the anthem um or they they sing their hym and he’s in full tears right like it’s cool it’s cool to see that that passion to to play a sport you know what I mean and represent your country or acknowledge people going before you it’s unreal M and like I said the players that have played there before you and something we always say is not your jersey you’re just trying to put in a better place for the next BL um 2005 comes around so I can’t remember what round it was but he’s coming 11th yeah midseason yeah yeah we’re long we’re long shots to make the finals theone win the Premiership 150 to1 I think it was at at one point as bad as it got well um yeah we were not traveling well but we had a lot of belief in well that’s what I was going to ask you where did the belief come from we we’ve done a lot of work obviously every team trains hard in the preseason but but whatever we did in the preseason we knew that we had a good formula for the way we wanted to play footy but we had and this has been spoken about a few times um I’ve heard players speak about it but we had an extras board up right and you’ve probably seen extras boards at training before whiteboard all the players listed up on the left days of the week go in and fill out whatever you’ve done that week to make yourself a better player and um That season that board was full regularly like it was like week week week week it was just like things that you wanted to do to make yourself better didn’t have to be a flog session it could have been like 100 passes left to right you know it just something that you were going to do to be more improved than you were the week before uh and I think seeing that up every week gave us all confidence um knew that we could rely on the Block next to us or either side of us because they’ve done something that week to make themselves better and all those little percentages of improvement across the board meant to a bigger Improvement as a team and as we sort of got on a bit of a role and we found ourselves in tough moments in in games we we’re coming out on the on the more positive side more often because we just had that belief and and Trust in each other did having that board as well if if you didn’t have something up for that week would you feel like you’ve let everyone down yeah yeah like I wouldn’t say it was embarrassment like but maybe a little bit embarrassed that that you hadn’t hadn’t done the work that your teammate was doing and um it’s a tricky one because you don’t want to be showy and say I’m just throwing this up here because I want to look good or whatever and suck up to the coaches and say that I’m doing something it it did really become an accountability thing for us and and it had meaning so we were we were recognizing when everyone was doing things for each other Y and and there were some guys that maybe didn’t have things up there every week but um often there were guys that you know they were they were doing a lot maybe in the game or you know they had some some good parts of the game they didn’t really need to they could have those down weeks where they didn’t have to go too far into it but more often than not it was full and that was um yeah it was a good accountability piece that would show the way he’s played and you know Tim Sheen he always said was that one of your manches was it to score more points than other teams like yeah like cuz I’ve never heard anyone really say it because no one says it but like was it one of those like oh if they scored 20 we score 21 yeah look I can’t remember exactly when or if Shanay said that that exact thing but it was definitely an an attacking mind set in that group like we we had he would put a lot of time into his structures and and you’ve been coached by him you know how thorough he is with structure and knowing your role and hitting points on the field and all those sorts of things and the purpose behind everything you do in a set so we did have um some structures that we all had to know but he was well prepared like we he had his his game sheets which you remember well that had rewrites yeah your rewrites you have to rewrite it so you embed that stuff in your head and um but he had really good knowledge on other teams and you know key indicators which every team does that work but sheni was meticulous about it and so yeah we wanted to score more points but we also had a good idea of what teams were going to do and how we could stop that defensively and talk to us when when did you think Benji was going to be an absolute out andout Superstar from the moment he he come down and really debuted yeah like 03 he um as I said school kid I’d met him maybe once or twice through the preseason but you know when you got those big preseason so many people all ends like you don’t really talk to people that much but he come down for um he literally flew down for the game that he debuted that week cuz he’s still at school wow and um he flew down on the Tuesday morning jumped in the session and then um yeah first touch in the game I think he’s gone bang bang off off his left foot and almost split them he probably did split them actually he just got just got collared he’s only quite little it it was a different side step wasn’t it to what we were used to yeah well he’s he got so much air time when he jump to make the step that’s right um and you’re kind of like one of the things you you work with speed coaches before like foot like having like quick contact with the ground is really important so being in the air you you’re not moving you can’t change your direction midair but the jump just threw people off was so deceptive and as soon as he hit the ground man he take off like that iseler three met in one step like in One Direction because he was so powerful through his hips and his his rump he had a big ass B he still does yeah’s he’s got good legs too like good yeah a lot of people you know they you know when you see see bugs get older they shaping their legs and that sort of goes away he’s still got it like you watch him walk around cuz he still trains with the boys yeah I know he he still cars him up probably that’s you know what he’s like the game against canala like that that move that he put on was that’s just the front on shot of him going bang bang bang he’s not even looking at like yeah it’s um pretty uh Goosebumps watching that again as well and then the no look pass but it wasn’t like a two three it was like a 20m no look cut out yeah and he’s like it’s um David peachy at the back too right Peach is a gun fullback very intuitive like and L Reed plays really well and he was Bamboozled by him so and was a lot of the stuff you did instinctive or was it you prepared like cuz a lot of it was just punching holes hard because you didn’t have the biggest pack y but he’s had a lot of mobile forwards yourself you know Harington balers Mar O’Neil but he’s new he’s always poked your nose for yeah I think like there was a lot of structure and we we did stick to the plan quite a bit but when you have someone like Benji in your team and hjo at the back Hodo is a phenomenal football player he’s one of my favorite teammates that I play with just from purely from a like a skill and footy IQ level um so when you got those guys around you know that you got to be prepared for something out of the ordinary which is what Benji produced often but we yeah we had some good structure that again knowing your role and being able to work within that structure and the leg speed and you’re right we didn’t have the biggest um team in the competition but the the speed at which with which we played was a really big reason why we were successful that year and then so cuz didn’t you have like the big finish to the back end of the year what did you come come third or fourth came fourth I think yeah we came fourth uh we had eight in a row we won eight in a row and then we lost the last two before the finals so it was penth and Melbourne I can’t remember which one remember when I used to talk to Robbie he reans that was the best thing for you guys losing those two games yeah we we needed a bit of a circuit breaker I think that’s it yeah um cuz we not that we were getting ahead of ourselves but um it kind of refocused us for the finals like I don’t know if told you the story about we went down to Melbourne and got dusted up by them and we had a curfew oh no actually didn’t have a curfew we weren’t allowed to go out oh but then a few boys snuck out the side door which you often hear you often hear stories about the side the boys leaving the side door right and they didn’t get up to no good they just went for a few beers in that but um there was someone keeping track of of that at the hotel so the uh management had tipped off someone at reception hey can you let us know when um if any of the boys go out and when they come back and whatnot so that like the old Tim Sheen one with the jersey at the the Jersey on the way through reception yeah something like that um anyway we got on the bus um went to the airport and when we got off at the airport we were all parked at uh cars at Concord y so we got on the bus to go back to Concord from the airport um Cherry mesha the great Cherry Aro he got up at the front of the bus and said boys when we go back to Concord getting you a training gear we got a session on um we heard some of us went out last night and uh you know we’re too close to the finals to let that fly so we got back and did a flog session day after the game off off the plane what was the Vlog session what did that involve rower all all the urg machines like yeah rower and uh grinder and so everything so just you’re 45 minutes I reckon play game the night before and you’ve got to go back yeah did any of the boys put the hand up and say it was there no we were all in didn’t matter we were all in yeah it was everyone in so um circuit breaker jeez you’d want to hope you went out that wouldn’t you I didn’t go a damn what a waste we’ll talk about that later on you’re the old RSA you’re the good boy and then so yeah so obviously first semi-final was against uh Cowboys Cowboys yeah big one at homebush yeah how was that like CU that was that the first semi-final for the West tigers um it would have been I didn’t play semi-finals before that yeah I think that was the first ever game for West tigers and then it was yeah yeah we um we rolled straight through the Cowboys Hodo got um highest points scoring in a final I think was it 50 that one 52 to something or 50 yeah to 12 or 52 to 10 something like that yeah it was a big big score line and then the next one was the dogs was it no no we went um Cowboys Broncos Broncos Broncos at the SFS and that was a a fair Broncos side that were a good side man that was a scary game cuz were coming up against the the heavyweights one of the heavyweights in the comp and yeah they had like webkey and um you know they had like Star starter pack Dan car I think was playing from there and Loy are obviously like they just had guns everywhere um but Benji had a great game that game wasn’t there like a moment like it was like neck and neck and neck and then Benji just broke the game apart scored yeah scored a longrange try um I think it was an intercept I think uh it was a loose ball or an intercept that he scooped on and took off but he also held up Darren Smith over the line like and it was it went to video ref but man he got so close to scoring the tribe but Benji got underneath got the arm under and lifted him up just before the line and it was a massive defensive play that he pulled off for us and I think that really changes the context of the match for us um and then yeah going to the dragons dragons and Par I think were the one and two that year that were the two hot favorites to make the final to make the GF yeah that was everyone was talking about you guys just making up the numbers Cowboys yeah yeah and then um yeah we took down the dragons in the semi-final at um SFS was a pretty big night swans won the GF next door I think that night um we were in um the SFS could hear all the commotion next door and then yeah we um we come out and and get the job done against the dragons there’s a great moment in that game mate I love what’s that when you pick up the ball from dummy half mate talk to us about it yeah well I was playing lock like I’d started lock in the finals and it was I hadn’t played lock all year I think I’d like come on and replaced Liam Fulton who was lock for big part of the year maybe Ben Benny Galler had a few games of lock as well but sheny had said before as we got into that first Finals match he goes Dan I want I’m going to start you with lock and I want you and Robbie to do uh do double dummy half running so if he goes you go or if you go he’s going to go off the back of that going to play front foot footy um and then against the dragons uh Benny glair had run a really nice tight line I think it was a twostep or like a little 91 or like a little drop under and um got a really quick play the ball and Robbie was going into D half and I just shoot him I said let me have a run and Robbie just jumped out of the way and I just picked it up and cut out and they were backtracking got got in underneath um Luke Bailey I think was that a marker or he was at a or marker and he just was backtracking so I just managed to squeeze past him and then mate you didn’t manage to your steam roll that was the one of the biggest players I’ve seen and he’s an Australian front row give yourself a rep mate Clint GRE Shields was a fullback for the for the dragons and um Benny homie was playing Seven but yeah Clint nearly held me up and went to V ref again and they seen enough to to get the try so that was a big moment in that game too Ben Benji scored first off of scrum again just that was so good that play dragons were at sixes and sevens yeah and then did you score last scored at the end of the game at the end of the game as well but you were back at Center that time paty Richards had gone off with his ankle injury I’d moved out to the centers Shane Alford had moved to the wing yeah I think that was it uh and then yeah I just um I found myself out wide hanging out wide just shifted out we just we had like two on one on the edge and just fell over in the corner and then talk so so you guys are the first ones to qualify cuz that was the Friday night game wasn’t it yes yeah it was yeah first qualif what did you do the next day because obviously you probably would have thought you probably playing parata being red hot favorites yeah did you all met up together and watched the game or yeah we went to paully F’s house and uh he was staying at um at roads we went to his apartment and we all sat around and and watched the game and yeah the Cowboys shocked everyone and and took down the heels um it was a pretty good performance from the Cowboys obviously the the big loss they had against us at the start of the the final series they they all had a bit of an honesty session I believe and um you know they yeah they had to put put in a good one against the hills if they to get through and they did credit to them it was um it was a great game and so you spoke about uh Pat Richards obviously getting injured yet at play center I remember like obviously Robbie tells a lot of the stories behind behind not not behind the mark but behind closed doors was it really like the feeling like when he walked into that room you know to do the fitness test where he was all like just S standing there together just waiting to hear the result yeah yeah so he’d um obviously the injury in the Dragons game and he’d B he got a scan seen some Specialists and um yeah it was going to be touch and go and it was more probably at the start of the week it would have been 910 that he was not going to play really that bad yeah it was a bad like a bad enough injury like cuz he could he could barely walk he was in a boot all that sort of stuff um but they said it’s a grand final we can need a lot up and you and you probably won’t do much more damage but it’s going to be about all right yeah and um I’m sure his conversations were a little bit more detailed with the doc uh Donald qua shout out Donald qua um anyway he um yeah come in on the captain’s run and uh he’d gone out to do his fitness test we’re doing L sort of our meeting ma shiny beforehand we’re all in one of the rooms that we’ sort of had our meeting in and then he’s walked in to the to the room and just given us a thumbs up and the room erupted like everyone lifted and started cheering and I don’t think he trained I think he just got through the fitness test y um and uh we had a few standbys that sort of filled in and that but yeah it was enormous like do you Reon that was a bit of a turning point for you blogs like that was like we you going do this though well it’ been so important for us right so um and as much crap as Wingers get Wingers play a big role in oh man like we give them that much stick it’s not funny but yeah but they start your sets and they finish yeah if you’ve got good Wingers that that do a lot for the rest of the team then it just sets everything else up and um yeah having Patty available was a was a big bonus for us and so how was the week like the Grand Final week everyone you speak to I haven’t played the Grand Final so don’t know what it’s like but everyone you speak to it they say it’s just it’s the grass like it’s the best yeah I found it a bit a bit too much to be honest like yeah there’s too much going on like it’s outside the normal and cheni tried to keep it as normal as possible but you got media every day you’ve got fan days and like it’s not taken away from the fan days are are awesome because you feel so good about them but it’s just like so much going on um Grand Final breakfast um which we stayed in town for one night so we was that the day before the game or is that it was a Thursday morning I think that at that time it’s it’s changed a little bit over the years um but yeah we had the Grand Final breakfast um which meant we were up early on a Thursday morning did the breakfast then maybe went back and did some training or but it just there was a lot in the week um and a lot of attention and it was cool to be a part of it but it was pretty draining like it would be yeah you get towards um game day and um probably because I was so young to like it was new so how old are you at this period uh 22 so oh that um maybe that was just you being young and not really understanding how to how to navigate that um and and no one else in the squad had either like everyone was pretty new to it so um there wasn’t a lot of shared experience you look at those teams that have been in multiple Grand finals the Bronx and the storm and Panthers those weeks would be so fun for them now because like they just got I done this before this is this is awesome not nothing new to them yeah yeah and then so we speak about the game comes and that that moment you know obviously there a lot of people that probably watch it go why was Benji defending on the wing what was the the game plan behind that yeah I think it was just um he was uh obviously defending when you when you three into Wing it’s a big difference in terms of like your requirement as a half like you have to make as many tackles decisions uh and it just I think maybe with Patty’s injury as well it it just kind of helped Patty to not have to go back and and kick return um like you normally would as a Winger I just think it was a a better defensive line on our Edge when Benji was defending out the wing but I think if I I might be mistaken thinking back but at different points of the field it changed so maybe when we got up defending Own Line Benji pushed back into three in and then we had like Patty back on the wing but like when they’re coming out of yardage and that then Benji was out out wider um but however it worked it meant that Benji was available to sort of be a part of those kick returns right which was more space more space for him um and it protected Patty with the injury in the Grand Final as well which was which was great um yeah so I can’t quite remember what the decision or when it was made to to defend that way but um it’s definitely saved him he was so effective with the ball in hand to Benji because of that unbelievable so he slices through like where are you at I’m on the bench you on the bench at this time it was it was it was a tough gritty start wasn’t it yeah it was pretty back and forth um they uh they gifted us the first try um if if um if you remember right it was a a loose pass in the him goal um and then yeah they had a few opportunities there was one they got pulled back for obstruction um I think mat Bowen went through from m Don went through I think Donal did a lead line and he took out one of your players I might have been on the inside of it I’m not sure but there was there was an obstruction and I was cuz I was thereabouts I was quite thankful that it was an obstruction man did I drop off there or I can’t I couldn’t remember and um yeah so was back and forth um but that that um play before halftime we we sort of traded blows I was on the bench because I’d gone through that rotation with Liam through the whole final series and um yeah you could just feel the whole stadium and Benji broke through and they like everyone started lifting something something’s happening here and then no one piced not many people picked up the flick pass that’s about to ask you like did you see it live I didn’t see it live no no I just seen Benji break through Patty cut back and then um he gets a fend out on on Rod Jensen and you know the big fend and and scores a try and then he fist pumps right like just Goosebumps now thinking about it Sam’s got goosebumps but um but yeah like we didn’t really didn’t see the flick pass just thought what a what a play from Benji to break through the line and then um you know Patty had a bit of a Juggle to on the bit of a low pass and then they went to the big screen for the replay and it was slowed down like and it was a Blindside flick pass so like he’s looking that way and flicked it that way which is like touch football kind of for anyone at home go in the backyard now and try that it is so hard to land it perfect full Pace yeah yeah and um the like the crowd like sort of when they seen that the big was like oh like everyone gasped cuz they didn’t realize that that was on and then you see the the broadcast afterwards yeah you hear fatty you know like just flip out about that kind of play in that moment like for a 20 21 year old kid at the time um was pretty impressive no fear on the man and you know the best was just the big fan like Patty Richard catches the ball swaps the ball in the other hand and then just poor old Rod Jensen C that yeah uh he’d come up with some big plays Rod Jensen defense he was outstanding he was like a super sub for him was yeah so that was unfortunate for him but obviously great for us that’s it so obviously you get past that moment halftime comes you know come out I think who was was was big hbre last TR scorer tody yeah he was yeah yeah uh how’s that moment cuz that sort of blew it out a bit yeah that was that was pretty much the the end of the game comfortable from there so Paulie fats again made a really good run from dummy half split him all the way up the other in the field and it kind of caught off caught us all off guard because we early in the tackle count you don’t expect like a clean break yeah um he went through and then we’ve all had to sort of jump on our bikes and try and catch up to him and then Hodo takes it at first receiver and he just sees the space and he just goes I’m just going to put a kick through drops it through Tod’s run through I think Liam he and Liam were sort of neck and neck for the ball and then toddy’s landed on it and um didn’t toddy have a busted hamstring or or something yeah he carried an injury he did carry an injury through the whole finals I think or early in the finals you got it but um yeah he had to move then to get to beat Liam out for the ball I think he was always going to win that one the big it was a good mate it was a good stacks on afterwards but then from there um it was yeah just a pretty quick countdown to the end of the game and you know the funny thing about the end of the game was the I remember watching it live um with j n was interviews yeah you didn’t swear did you no no way no I kept it I made I spoke like a 20-year-old kid when I was talking but um you were mate but uh Timmy Gilbert interviewed me so I think depending on who you got more right to me then when you got Matty John’s mty Matty John’s is like hey it’s MADD so like the boys the boys were a little bit relaxed uh yeah I don’t know if Hano Patty Benny Galia I think bof like anthon Frankie did one as well but he he he wound her back straight away he apologize so Hano was the best like that’s but that you know what that just shows you he’s in his element he’s in his moment yeah and it’s his time to celebrate yeah obviously you know like I hate I can’t stand swearing on broadcast like um but um in the in the moment it’s just like you you get it they just got swept up and uh yeah the interviewer I blame the interviewer M Johns one of the greats mate he’s one of the greats so you’ve got a couple more years at tigers and then you obviously make the the move to canbury you’ve been coached by Tim change your whole career how was the difference with Desi HLA because you hear of all these intense stories about Desi what was the difference with Desi and and Tim yeah well when I first got to the dogs Kevin Mo was a coach Kev Mo was my first coach I had him for a couple of years and then Desi came in my third year at the club um Kevy Kevy was a champion but loves his golf Kevy and so it was a good good chance of getting a golf day in with kev’s a coach but um really easygo guy obviously talking earlier about DNA and about what it means to be a part of a club well you know the more family synonymous with the Bulldogs and and Kevy being um being in that in that family brought a lot of that to to the club and that’s the first thing I noticed about being the club very family orientated when I got there and I you said I’ve been at the Tigers for my whole career so far big move to go I was made to feel very welcome when I got there my wife my daughter at the time my first daughter like we felt really a part of the club straight away y fast forward to Desi uh and um yeah the mad scientist like he was pretty fullon um and intense but he set a really high work rate and expectation and I love that like it it pushed me to go really hard and I had some good grounding with my first two years there at the club they trained really hard Tony galdi was our conditioner the big lobster and um yeah I had to train hard to make myself you know a part of the group and sort of set set a standard for myself and then when Desi got there he went up again really intense um always the first to arrive last to leave kind of mentality um super detailed probably that’s where the similarities with him and Shany are like they’re very detailed in what they give you it’s a a purpose behind everything um and one thing that sheni uh was always really good at was um getting you to understand what you’re really good out in your role and and executing that for the team um Desi was the same but Desi was also if you went to Desi with information about something you want to do differently like you’d takeen on board um but you had to give him good information or else You’ just dismiss it that you couldn’t just go in there say I think we should do this you’d have to have a reason behind it yeah or like I should be doing this or whatever like you had to have give me some data or something that supports what you’re saying like that was really big from him um yeah so like it was an intense few years under him and um what was it there five years at the club and well you were there for one of the grand finals but you were 18th man weren’t you yeah I was 18th man but you played the whole season didn’t you and then you just I played 20 to 20 rounds or 19 20 rounds I got D my medial in round 20 against the eels and man I played nearly 80 minutes every game on the right Edge then a BL called Josh Jackson came in when I was injured uh and the team was going so well through the I was out for six weeks and that was leading straight into the finals and when I got back I was gutted cuz I was having such a good year I’d say probably apart from 05 was the best year of footy I played y so when it came time to get back on the field and I knew that there was a solid group still playing I went man it’s going to be hard to crack it and I wasn’t in good shape like as in it took me a while to sort of get through the injury what was that was that the medior yeah me or so um got into the finals and I was 18th man for every every match of the finals W waiting for an injury which is which is like a really bad thing to say but that’s the position you’re in right you’re waiting for something to go wrong you know you’re not playing unless you get a suspension injury yeah so um cuz that’s the team was just going so well not that I wanted that for any any of the players it’s just like that’s the position you’re you’re in and um there’s no games for me to sort of stake a claim I’m just waiting you know and uh but at the same time we had such a good year such an enjoyable team to be a part of and um I thought we were I thought we’re were going to beat the storm I thought we were good enough to do it I thought we’d done it all year so well uh but on the on the night they just turned up and just crushed the game plan like really well and that’s what you get with them right they just bellam he’s he knows what to do to to get the most out of his players but also how to do it and uh he did it well that night and so being like your second GF you’re involved in cuz this wouldn’t have been many of those BLS in that Bulldog Squad that have been in the Grand Final had there no I don’t yeah I’m trying to think back of it through that roster I don’t think there was no do you reckon Melbourne H that week better probably David Stags was was the only and I think Mick yeah Mick was around but he was injured for the ‘ 06 Broncos Grand final stagy played in it I think stagy played centers in that 06 Grand Final um you so there was only a handful of guys um but beast beast he would have been there as well I’d say so yeah I don’t know if we didn’t I think we handled it okay I thought we we went through the week well I I think it it was literally just in the match they came with a good game plan and they had some really good set plays that we weren’t PR prepared for we had a really good defensive year but they picked us apart so even like that bil SL try I think Hoffman was it yeah it was like an out an outline it just it split it split our half and back row like a three and four in Defender and and it was just because of the deception and then yeah you get that try so it a funny moment in that Grand Final one of one of um tri’s very own you got a bit Jimmy graah bit close little bit too close to someone’s ear yeah yeah yeah but you know that’s game goes on yeah it does now he’s hosting certain shows he’s on fire um then obviously a year later did you ever have the how does this work so you started create West Tigers you’ve been at bulldogs for 3 years four years and in that start of the fourth year you have some talks about coming back to the Tigers yeah I was nearly going to sign to stay at the the dogs for a year so I had conversations with Dez and um he was happy to offer me another year it was it’s going to be like just kind of like roll on same contract just roll on another year and I playing lot not too bad yep uh but then uh my manager at the time had come to me and just said uh look the Tigers are interested in getting you back um there’s a lot of young guys there that um are local Juniors have been around for a long time it’d be not bad idea to finish your like your career off at the club you started and obviously knew that I Lov the club as well um and it was a two-year deal so that was probably the only difference of two-year deals versus one year at 31 at the time I thought that’s not a bad thing money was comparable it wasn’t much different um so it wasn’t it wasn’t as if I was gon to go back for a huge windfall yeah um but yeah that was that was basically it and I had a conversation with Dez but he’d already I think he’d already spoken to either whoever at the tigers or to my manager and he knew that um that offered me something and we had a really good conversation he said and it was mid midseason he said mate he goes it’ be good for you to finish off where you started no no ill feeling like I understand it um you know we see out the year and then off you go sort of thing and um doesn’t that make your decision a lot easier I understand yeah it was um I I appreciated the just The Upfront conversation and you I played the rest of the season there at the dogs and um enjoyed that season we didn’t we got bundled out of the finals first week against Newcastle but um but yeah it was a happy transition back to the Tigers so you come back to the Tigers is that when Mick Potter was our coach yeah 2014 yeah yeah how was the difference in the club to where was at when you first left the facility itself hadn’t changed not like it is now walk through the yeah not definitely not like it is now but I walked through the doors and that was like not that you don’t get precious about those things like yeah the weights weigh the same the fields the same size and all that sort of stuff but I’d come from the Belmore Center of Excellence for four years they were like one of the first ones one the first to do it yeah back to Concord which it had um the same lockers as when I left um same gym same equip everything was the same the lockers were three planks of wood weren’t they yeah something like that it pretty much the same um but yeah it was it was in a you could could feel like it was in a bit of a weird spot like trying to figure out the sort of the style of that the team wanted to play well you said it before the the culture and the identity yeah and I think it was probably a bit all over the place if I’m honest like it was um there’s a lot of young guys coming through but um yeah it was different it was different to when I when I left um and obviously a lot of different faces when I left you were you were a real young kid when I left you had play first grade yet I was 17 you were smashing in the preseason with us I remember actually doing the beep test on the um hockey Fields behind Concord the Old Hockey Fields there oh yeah the back on and you crushed it oh this this gu was a front rower and he’s like smoking the the yo-yo it was in so um closet training mate closet training first preseason you know what it’s like so how was it like cuz obviously like I was there and I knew you one of the old I was super pumped when you come back mate 05 Legend and there was like I wasn’t even one of the youngest we had a lot of young kids did you feel like your responsibility was to look after a lot of the young blgs it was but I I found it tricky like to try and this is something you sort of you battle with when you’re I think an older guy in a squad is like they’re your teammates right and there’s a there’s obviously a generational Gap because you’re very different you come through a different time but um you’re trying to be friends with them but at the same time you want to be firm as a senior guy and a veteran right so how do I be firm without making them off me and then like losing a group or you know and it happens really it can happen really easily in a in a in a group and um I feel like that that was a real risk for that team at the time was that if you’re too hard on some players they might may get off you and then start to talk and then you become an outsider rather than a leader and so striking out that balance is really tricky well I think you that was probably one of your best assets but I tried hopefully please it was still it was still tough going for those few years I was back there but like the thing with the kids it was hard is the generational Gap is a lot different like you know when you come through Hollow that just tell you straight away even when I first come through and that was what probably hell on what you wa for four years and you come back and like you’ve got to Baby them a lot yeah that’s something I’ve noticed even now I’m at your situation what you’re talking about now Manley like I’m 33 and I’ve got kids that are 20 like they were watching me play first grade when I in primary school yeah it’s it’s different and like it’s not it’s just a different generation it’s not like nothing against um the type of personalities or whatever it’s just and that’s why I admire coaches that have been around for a long time like I think of someone like Wayne Bennett who’s mid 70s right has seen how many generations of football player come through he’s found a way to Res with every single group and Craig Bellum is no different Wayne’s about to resign again like to be able to to be able to cut through with different groups in that way you you have to be open to like learning and understanding but still maintaining that Authority you know like and um I think that’s it’s a skill that those guys have down pat that’s why they’ve been able to like coach as long as they have yeah definitely and then you had a great preseason that first one I remember remember how tough that was good preseason it it was a good one but yeah remember the first game mate K Over Teddy’s home ground yeah mate you were flying at Hooker and what was it the last the last quarter wasn’t it yeah last quarter so I think Mani charington was playing hooker with me at the time we sort of like on and off rotating and then the end of the game was last quarter and they put me back on um maybe to give him a spell or whatever and um yeah I just I took a dart from dummy half only like 15 me out from their line and um yeah they got one of their Big Boppers dropped on my left ankle and snapped my sna my ankle and dislocated my foot were you on the field at the time no I was I cuz I played the first half but then I remember coming on to see you and we could see a little bit of your bow well the bat it didn’t it didn’t get out but it was sideways my foot my foot was pointing like the so of my foot yeah and um scando was our trainer our blue shirt Shane Alford was a blue shirt for par two of the 05 boys so they’ve come on the field and um scan’s looked down and got oh that’s not what you want to hear from a trainer and spuds come over and going oh give me some water and get St good day know and um yeah so that was um not a not a great return to the club first troll match snap my ankle out for four months s Curtis go s and done his foot the game at that same game as well so we’re both in for surgery I don’t think they’ve played at Kirkham since actually there the field was in good shape actually it was it was actually really good like you can’t complain it was just unlucky day of us playing against I think it was um and then so you get back obviously the next year is the the Robbie faraga and of all BLS to have to take like so so for people home Robbie Farah plays origin um then comes back to the club and JT tells him that he’s playing Reserve grade because he wants to move him on and then we no other hookers at the club one man has to step up and take the role how how how do you feel like getting put in that position that was so awkward man are you around it you se you SE what like for me and um obviously Robbie was gutted right cuz he’s a you know he loves the Tigers and passionate about the Tigers and he’s qu he’s been one of the best hookers of the last two decades so um he had every right to be disappointed with the position he found himself in um and JT was a coach and JT had an idea of what he wanted to do and it didn’t include Robbie I think they were butting heads about game plan and structure and what Robbie’s role was and all that sort of stuff and like no had to get into it like it’s they had obviously had the Chiefs not indan had the disagreements and then yeah I got thrown in the middle and um it was awkward cuz Robbie and I as I mentioned earlier debuted together we’ known each other for a long time and uh he was one of my closest teammates so yeah it was it was awkward uh it was weird I felt um a little bit of pressure too from like fans and that because fans were blowing up about the fact that he wasn’t playing and to vent their frustrations they criticize the [ __ ] out of me which was like pretty hard like I’m trying to finish my career out you’re trying to help us young BLS love playing with like yourself and Mitch and Brookie and Teddy and being around those guys and kner at the time like it was like I had like a lot of joy in being a part of that group y um so to have that sort of like just constantly going it was week after week because it was a it was a saga right it was relentless manate and um so yeah it was it was disappointing but um you know what I did value and and I and I still there was this was a not the majority of fans that were saying that it was just bits and pieces that came through and I still had some really you know nice things coming from fans don’t get me wrong um but also like you boys were all really solid to me as well through it all you understood that it was awkward you understood that I was in a tough spot man I was I was a captain mate you were the skipper I was going for a similar sort of thing to you so not positional wise so yeah it was um that that gave me a lot of comfort like to know that the guys that I was still run out the field with were were supporting me and um made it did makeing it enjoyable last few years it was good like I remember obviously a lot of the way trips always try have a beard because you never knew what was going to be your last one yeah I think we had a good one in New Zealand because you got to try in New Zealand I’ll put you over over got me off the N around 25 yeah right near the line just jum out a little could never think you more enough that night I was happy with myself good hooker I didn’t expect it from myself eyes up mate eyes up um but like the last game was just that was a bit of a disappoint wasn’t it I felt like as a group we let you down like not just the the club but I think like as Club Legend and yourself all we had to do is have a draw all win and we make the semi-finals yeah and the performance we go out and put against CRA oh man it was an awful performance like as a group but like we didn’t even like I felt sorry for you in another aspect that we were all crooked that week yeah and and you didn’t even get to enjoy your last week of training as as a first grade footballer I think there was maybe four of us that didn’t train from maybe Thursday onwards and our Dock at the time was going around and trying to give us all like antibiotics and and all sorts of things trying to help us get ready for the game cuz was such a big moment and um everyone was run down like it was it was tough going that not that that’s an excuse but um yeah it was a pretty pretty awful performance 50 at like out over wasn’t it like so chance to make the finals draw or win and you’re in uh 18,000 hanging off the roof uh the roofs next door and that it was all set up Sunday afternoon Sunny like out overal so it was like how it started how it finished for me like footy career and finished on 249 games too so oh two no way so that was um like a little bit of a bit moment you know what summed up that game like B goes down the right Edge half break then frows a a hell merry flick pass and I think rapana picks it up and just scores yeah I think it was 16 n after 8 minutes you haven’t forgot about it easy mate that’s a hard one to let go that one I agree that was a tough year with some off field stuff that happened as well so um so you’ve retired how how was how’s the transition been since you’ve retired mate yeah good question M like it’s I’m eight years down now so like it’s well and truly in the the review M it’s good to reminisce and yeah so one more for that were you nervous to transition into the workforce from rugby league no like so i’ made the announcement I was going to retire early in the season it might have been July June or July that I’d um that I made the decision I’d made the decision before the season started but I announced it midy year um so I wasn’t nervous about work prospects after footy um I’d lined a few things up um to work at the NRL uh and and also at the club so I’d kind of like like got a few parttime rolls sus and um that was not a worry for me um but the reality of your last game was a weird thing right so that camber game and you’re just going through the weeks preparing and then that last game it’s the last game big moment but it was a situation where room was more front of mine like we got to make the finals we want to make the finals so when the Hooter goes the last Hooter I’m on the field in the ENG go I think they scored right at the death anyway the Huda goes and you just go oh [ __ ] that’s it lock them done and it’s like really shocking it like kind of like in that moment I was like man like I’m not going to be able to do I’m not going to be doing this ever again like not at least not at this stage and I didn’t have any desire to play y play on after that like I was proper done um so that was like a weird experience but I was fortunate enough that I had a role um in the game I had a couple of roles in the game where I was working alongside the people that support players in in transition so they were very subtle in their approach but you know there were little things along the way that helped me sort of move through that sort of phase of transition and people go through it in everyday life when they move from one job to another or when they retire from the workforce or together there’s transitions everywhere for people and experience is a little bit different in sport because it’s such a bubble and particularly in rugby league here in um yes in Sydney um it is such a bubble and you become so so tied to that identity of being a footy player that to all of a sudden break away from that and stop talking about yourself in that sense is really like probably the biggest challenge and and that’s the first thing that like in my old role in wellbeing that we talk about with X players is like that letting go it’s sort of like a it’s a bit of grieving you go through like you got you got to let that go and move on to the next thing and you go through ups and downs you start thinking I reckon it was probably two years worth of like maybe I could have played a bit longer really maybe I could have got my 250 maybe maybe I could still play now knowing fo that I couldn’t but just moments of those would pop up first round of 2017 my first year retirement your boys played against sou at the stadium and had a good win first round of the year that was Farah’s first game for Z yeah so first first round good win and I came into the sheds as an employee and stood outside the circle while you guys sang the song that was really hard to watch like cuz that’s the moments the bits that you miss is like is um is the camaraderie and being around each other and celebrating the wins they’re the good times nothing better than a win right and and that feeling afterwards when you sit together and you know you’ve played well and it was a great game that that you boys played so that was hard and there was lot there’s little moments like that that always sort of pop up but um you know I was well prepared for for work and got a really good family around me like my wife relle you know really well is a great person to bring you down to earth and keep you grounded and um you know my kids as well like we’re um very grounding so and you know you you’re got a young family it changes your whole mindset and you approach and um that becomes a really important part of you know what comes next oh it’s good that sort of you got a really good balance not not just that footy bit away from the footy which really helped you yeah one thing I love to know you spend a little bit of time in a bunker run us through the process like a lot of people don’t understand how it all works like is it just you by yourself or like the Chim angles cuz people only go off what they see with the video ref and what they see on the coverage but you’ve got so many more screens don’t you so just this a clarify okay so I look after the injury surveillance bunker I oversee the injury surveillance bunker which is our hiia process independent doctors and all that um when you go into the bunker there’s three different spaces there’s a match Review Committee so they’re in a room where they watch the game live and they um obviously tag moments that could come up as a charge and and they are pretty meticulous in what they do MH and yeah they get all the angles in there so we use a system called Hawkeye which is pretty known around the world as a um uh technology that supports um professional sports um so bch review then there’s a bunker official so um is that the ones it’s it’s a referee now referees that make decisions right so so they don’t have any ex players in there anymore no so they’ve got a supervisor that sits there and watches over them um and like kind of like just so that’s are they the ones that we hear when they go back to talk the video referees so the match official the main review official is the one that you hear when it goes to broadcast so they’re in their own room big room Hightech looks the grass they got all the angles that are available by from the broadcaster and and they can scrub back and forth it’s high definition frame by frame and they are very diligent man like they got good operators the referees themselves are are really experienced and it’s a pretty slick operation and you don’t really get an appreciation for it until you get in there and getting in there to watch a game you know you’ve got to be it’s a it’s a bit of an acceptance to get in there like because you know it’s obviously it’s a sensitive area so there’s got to be processes to get people in there but you know anyone that goes in there that I know uh I’ve seen them operate at a distance like it it is very slick yeah uh and they do have you know some really good technology at at their fingertips to to make those decisions and humans are humans they’re going to see things differently or they’re going to make mistakes from time to time but since the introduction of the bunker as in match officials the decision the the correct decisions that we’ve got in the game would be like miles ahead of where they were without it like and I think when you get that there’s more consistency across the board for all teams the the competition has to be more even when you’re getting more things right cuz law of averages everyone’s going to get the dud call from time to time but they’re going to come back around and over time everyone’s on a more even playing field that’s my view anyway and then there’s the injury surveillance bunker which I mentioned and they sit in another room where you’ve got operators you’ve got is that for like concussions and all that that’s for concussions so in that room you got a spotter um so that person’s just watching the game live tag tag head imp back tag tag they’re just tagging everything y then um there’s another review riewer and a doctor and the reviewer and the doctor work in tandem to look at each Incident That’s being tagged and make a decision on what you want to do with that so they’re using the same technology as of video referees um they’ll look at each incident and then they’ll say well we’ve seen something here that could indicate a head injury okay and we’re going to make a decision on it so do they are they connected to the ground do they are they the ones that say oh we think we might have seen a category 2 or category one yeah so the the doctors will make that make that assertion yep there’s an operator that’s on to the match officials to both doctors from each team and to the trainers orange shirt trainers so there’s a broadcast announcement that goes out so when the referee blows time off and stops a game and singles out a player that has to go off because it’s come from the inur surveillance bunker the referee heard it um the touch judges heard it the doctors the orange sh trainers heard it because they’ve all got coms right and that’s why sometimes they’ll just stop the game or the play the ball y whether there’s momentum or whatever because they’re the ones got PRI safety of the player right and it’s only they’ll stop it at their first available opportunity so when balls in play and it’s moving around they’re not going to stop the game then because they can’t it’s it’s not going to happen but it’s next play the ball yeah let’s stop and get the player off the field right or whenever that that break and play is um and then they’ll obviously go up and do their do their assessment but in the bunker the doctors that are making those decisions they’re working through um a series of checks they’re looking for a heading pack they’re looking at the reaction of the player y they don’t they don’t miss a lot and again without those eyes up there your doctor and your trainers that are on the field got so much other things to worry about that they’re not going to see it all they’re also getting messages from upstairs yeah so there’s lots of things going on that sort of complicate things for the team staff having this extra support service with the doctors is being like a a real blessing for the at least the team medical staff and um they do a pretty good job of what they do and for people at home what is the difference between cat one or category one and Category 2 probably the the biggest thing to to sort of distinguish between them is like is a definite call so like if you’re looking at a player that’s stumbling all over the place you’d say they’re definitely um they’re definitely stumbling it’s called motoring cordination or a taxier so they they’ve definitely got that then that that’s a category one now if you see a player that stumbles after a head impact and it’s all got to be in the context of a head impact y but if you see a player that maybe stumbles but you’re not quite sure it’s not conclusive on video then a doctor might say well I think I’ve seen there’s possibly a stumble there but I’m not quite sure MH so here’s a category 2 get them off the field and assess them then the doctor will take them in the sheds you’ve done assessments yourself go through that process so that’s like that that assessment is it’s not 100% but it’s a pretty good tool to help doctors like understand if there has been like a head injury and then they can make a decision from there and if it’s a one it’s 11 days stand down well if it’s a one called from the bunker yep right that that typically means a player can’t go back in that day but the concussion diagnosis is only made by your team doctor okay when a player is diagnosed with a concussion it’s 11 Stand Out y so um but it has to it has to be that decision around concussion is is left with your your team doctor but there’s a whole bunch of processes that go on throughout every week when we review every single hi every single head impact that we record we review it all and then we work with the um with the chief medical officer at the NRL with the club doctors around you know path to return to play for any player that’s in that position and then so when we’re in Vegas I remember seeing you in the lobby having a chat where you went to a a concussion course didn’t you uh I went to I just went to a um to Pittsburgh uh to the University of Pittsburgh medical center and there’s a professor there called um Michael Collins Professor call they call him Mickey Collins y so he’s got a concussion clinic there so um Wayne Pierce Junior Pierce TIG is great yep obviously one of our commissioners and and as our most experienced commissioner he um he made a connection with Mickey Collins a little while ago and it was more just a bit of a fact finding mission to see what do at their concussion clinics and see if there’s any applications we might have in in the game here in Australia um one of the things that we have to be mindful of with anything related medically around player safety concussion obviously at the top of that list is making sure in front of like what’s best practice around the world you know what is there out there that we need to bring into our game um that’s going to keep moving us forward in terms of player safety uh and so that was it was all an exploration go to see what they do at that at that clinic uh relay that back to our medical staff here in in Australia make some connections and then you know see what comes of it so at the moment it was it was purely just to understand some more stuff um what it turned into we’re not sure yet we’re still working through what it would look like down the track and are you happy with how far it’s come and you know the process that we’re doing yeah I think I think um the injury surveillance bunker that I’ve just given you sort of a rundown on is comparable to the NFL’s injury surveillance right so they’ve got in terms of technology and processes they’ve got like our process are actually um being stricter over the last few years um they’ve made some changes to their after some pressure through some some incidents that happened over the last few years but same technology very similar sort of process in terms of spotters doctors and the way that they run things but I think our our injury surveillance buers like up there in the world in World Collision sport is one of the best um Support Services Y and then you couple that with our protocols around players not returning to play like the 11-day standown there’s stand Downs in pretty much all Collision Sports at the moment except for NFL and NHL the North American Sports don’t have them but Rugby’s got a stand down period afl’s got a stand down period um we’ve got it we’ve got it at Community level as well so there’s been huge improvements in taking a conservative approach to it uh we still have to understand a lot more about um you know managing concussion and recovery from concussion rehab it’s not going to happen overnight there’s going to be a long process there’s there’s always more you can learn on anything um but I think from the time I started playing to the the time I finished to now it’s just incrementally gotten better and better and for example imagine you had to do a hi when you first come through yeah the hi’s then you know like even so 2003 I I debuted and the real strict processes didn’t probably come in until like uh maybe 2010 to 12 sort of range I reckon um it started jumping up again so but even even then there were still good checks and balances it’s just that it’s evolved as the information that we’ve got has has gotten better and it’ll continue to do so so we have to it’s it’s on us to to keep staying ahead of that and making sure we’re doing the most we can for players well personally I think he’s in the right direction because like at the start of each year we’ve got to do you know what is it cat test cat yes you you got do Baseline which I find it is the hardest test ever with the the one with the cards like that’s that is the hardest test mate I fail that all it does my head in every every time like each Club I’ve been at which I’ve been at a few the man’s like m F you’ll do it again get a better Baseline you got to be quicker it’s not about getting it right it’s about getting quicker well it’s a bit of both there there’s different measures like yeah it’s uh there’s there’s accuracy and there speed involved in that that sort of stuff there that um Cog Cog sport test or the cogram that’s managed by a third party okay so they’ve got their own systems that evaluate your results um which again it’s us reline on experts in the field to to give us you know wear your Bas On’s at and give us your scores and tell us whether or not you’re right to go everyone’s basine is different yeah everyone’s Baseline is different mate and uh you know it’s um again stay ahead of it so talk to talk to us about your other love mate you’re a commentator for the ABC yes mate how did you get into that well I retired in 16 November of 2016 the great Andrew Mo uh gave me a call one day randomly I was at a um Pacific leadership camp for the NRL actually with nanga if you remember the great anyway Mor called me like it was a it was a random number and I just answered it dinner that night and um he goes hey it’s Andrew Mo from the ABC how you going I said oh good day Andrew how you going he goes mate I just got your number from Bobcat um just wondering have you ever thought about commentating or has that ever been on your radar and I said yeah yeah I’d love to commentate not thought about it once in my life never done it like never never done it never thought about it um and then yeah he just um he said look we we’re gonna Bobcat’s um sort of winding back a little bit of his commitment so we need to fill some spots would you be interested in coming and trying it out I said yeah sign me up I’d love to have a crack uh got me in at the all stars match in 2017 um up in Newcastle got to interview Lori Daly in my first ever interview which was like for me so were you doing sideline or yeah I was doing sideline yeah and um I crapped myself like Lori D is one of my childhood Heroes and I got to interview him and he and he addressed me as Dean when I started interview him too so he knew who I was he’s me like fanboying like a little like a footy head yeah uh so I was pretty buzzed out that Lori Daly was my first interview addressed me by my name and um yeah that was the start of it and yeah I’ve done it now since 2017 so I say this is like my eth season of doing it and still enjoying it I love it yeah it’s such like just I’ve grown to love the game more through doing that work with ABC really and I just appreciate you know when you play you hate teams yes I don’t hate any team anymore like I love watching footy because I appreciate athletes in every Squad and I like I love seeing good footy players love like I live in the sh so by default I have to love the Sharks right but love seeing someone like Sam Stone straight the other week in his debut match love seeing some of the talent that are playing at all squads you know I used to hate Manley I used to hate playing against Manley um but obviously know you but Brookie’s there you know I’ve met I met um Jerry a few years ago now but you know you know half half the team’s Tigers now manly P ala that so yeah like the ab like doing the ABC work has given me like a probably a new found for for the game and yeah it’s you know what I love as well like as a player I love seeing you there like hey walking off the bench or the guys would always laugh up in the box when like you’d give me stick you’d call me topper right and they’d go topper and then that I have to explain that story and then bit J from Woods yeah yeah and then like J was always was always good for interview it always used to wrap me up on there as well good like like sometimes like you could be frustrated after a loss you know or or you’d be super excited after a win but then when I see you it’s like oh they know even when you jump in when I’m interviewing someone else and tackle me just happy to see you mate it’s good mate and the players love that you don’t give a stick you just ask the questions that people want to hear mate and like that’s one thing I think I’ve I’ve navigated really well in like in the commentary role is that I I don’t bag players I call I call a mistake a mistake and and you know when a player’s not having a great game like you can call that for what it is but um there’s always no player wants to be doing that right you know yourself no one ever wants to make a mistake or have a bad game exactly you just want to see players bounce back and do their best and yeah that’s why I appreciate the role I’m very similar but I I only bag referees especially you Adam G cuz I know Adam G listens to this podcast they they’re all fantastic BLS and and girls as well I see them around the office all the time yeah he’s a legend I get called actually I get called the um referees referees um Union Boss by some people cuz I stick up for him so much I thought you a good like tell that mate but hon change when you’re on the field anymore mate but oh I can’t thank you enough for coming today mate and doing woodi footy tour Club tour mate thank you so much and hope you see you doing some ABC commentary around the ground thanks mate it was a pleasure cheers thanks mate
