TGAF: Pegula family revelations; Lindy Ruff; Bills draft analysis

A lot to unpack in this episode of “Tim Graham And Friends” brought to you by CTBK. Tim and Jonah go through this week’s Pegula family revelations, the Sabres’ decision to hire Lindy Ruff, the Bills’ draft and the Bandits’ playoff run.

[Music] ctbk gives Executives and owners of mid-market businesses unparalleled confidence and Clarity so you can focus on strategic objectives and organizational success their multi-disciplinary advisers accountants and team members have a wealth of experience and are all available and responsive to each client to ensure the most effective advice actions and outcomes no matter the situation or complexity level that experience base and one team approach combined with integrated and efficient way of operating enable them to be truly proactive Partners doing the best thing for their client every time visit ctbk tocom or call 716 630 2400 to learn how ctbk can work for you thank you Heather perusek and welcome to the Tim Graham and Friends team this is another edition of Tim Graham and friends brought to you by ctbk CPAs and Business Consultants I’m Tim Graham of the athletic here with my co-host Jonah bronstein of bronstein sports plus uh Jonah it’s been a pretty eventful period with both the bills and the sabes since we’ve done our last podcast we’ve both been been busy busy little boys uh covering this that and everything we’ll talk about the bandits uh even a little bit later in the show but uh one of the reasons we weren’t able to do a podcast I was bogged down with a couple of stories regarding the Buffalo Bills and the pugula family in regard to their ownership um of the team uh finally able to report after working on the story for a while that uh Kim Pula has been ruled legally incapacitated and Terry Pula is her plenary guardian and what plenary Guardian means it means it’s anything that can be delegable in terms of someone’s uh decision-making uh has now been turned over to Terry pugula not to get bogged down in legal ease but when I say something that is delegable for instance your right to vote cannot be delegated to somebody else so there are certain things that Terry pugula can’t do in Kim pula’s name uh but very specific and very limited uh pretty much he’s able to make every decision uh for Kim Pula and all of her assets uh and of course as we know uh a big chunk of her assets uh are tied up in sports teams the Buffalo Bills the Buffalo Sabers uh Terry Pula now with 100% uh control of those teams or I should say given that development from March of 2023 and then there’s a domino effect and yet another story um emerges from that uh regarding the NFL and its secession planning and the policies that they have in place and the requirement for Terry pugula to then name uh or to designate the next controlling owner of the team in the event he dies or is incapacitated and I think a lot of people even within the organizations uh um Rank and file employees uh whom I’ve heard from very surprised or those who are may maybe surprised to a certain small number of employees because there were still holding out hope that Kim might come back someday and information has been sparse coming from the Pula family and trickling down through the executives and the leadership and to the rank and file uh people are still wondering how Kim’s doing well this is a story that I think has been jarring to Folks at both wind Bill’s drive and down at Key Bank Center uh that Kim pagul is not coming back and uh Laura pugula is on the rise within both organizations the story that I wrote yesterday regarding that secession plan with her and the bills in the event uh something were to happen to Terry before he could make an official transition uh that Laura Pula is the design moving forward with the bills and then uh I heard today a new bit of information I updated my story you wouldn’t find it anywhere on the Sabers website or at nhl.com uh but Laura Pula is an alternate governor of the Buffalo Sabers and has been representing the team at NHL meetings she’s not on either front office directory and so that’s a type of thing that uh you know I’ve been hearing from um a lot of folks in the building out of the building the the mystery the the secrecy regarding the Pula family it’s only adding to I think the mystery um and I heard I heard from uh from someone today who said that everything just feels very unstable and uh I think I I I understand that and it seems very volatile when answers are in short supply so that’s what I’ve been working on uh for the last couple of weeks the two different stories one Terry pugula selling 25% roughly of the Buffalo Sabers we did or the Buffalo Bills I’m sorry uh we did talk about that on the most recent podcast but then uh right afterwards you know Lindy Ruff is the new head coach and the bills have a draft and then this uh story that I’m doing on the Pula family and Laura pula’s rise uh um prevented us from doing the usual podcast schedule so here we are Jonah I don’t know where you want to start of all those things uh that you want to get into first what intrigues you the most well I kind of wanted to ask you um from your reporting and and what you’ve written so far and what you’ve learned about this Pula ownership shakeup in a way um you know there’s a lot of interesting and and some of it’s very sad Palace Intrigue going on and you know if you’re following the Pula family as if they’re you know the Royal Family of Buffalo sports and or if you’re a business reporter there’s a lot to unpack and a lot to analyze there but from a sports angle from for the Buffalo sports fans kind of what do you think are the ramifications of any of these changes if there is anything that uh you know will notice on the field on the ice or within the sports teams that’s a great place to start Jonah because that’s the upshot right people uh in fact one of the first responses to my story when I tweeted it out was yesterday was I don’t give an f about one billionaire given a piece of his team to his billionaire daughter or something along those EG but there are ramifications we don’t know what they are yet though and there are a couple of things at play you know Terry Pula is in his 70s and as we saw with his wife who is much younger than he is nothing is guaranteed and that is why the NFL is so proactive regarding its secession planning procedures I’m not as up on what the NHL requires of its teams uh with a secession plan but we’re talking about assets that aren’t worth nearly as much they aren’t as coveted you know the NFL is and way more advanced in terms of its business operations as anyone can see everything from what we hear from collective bargaining agreements all down to the product that we see on television uh that the NFL is way far ahead of the NHL when it comes to its policies the way it thinks the Way It prepares it’s as a business as a as its own little universe and so the NFL um and I use this example in my story in 2019 when the Denver bronos were sold it happened after an incredible amount of family infighting Pat Bolan uh the the owner of the team had Alzheimer’s disease and it was progressing and he knew it was progressing when he put the the rules in place for who would take over eventually he was still with it enough he turned the team over to some trustees uh Joe Ellis the team’s president being among them and they were then given guidelines to Shepherd the team to its next owner and I can get into all the little details but the very basic surface area point was the trust was to determine among the children the best possible person who was whe whether they had the proper degrees or experience interest the wherewithal the trust was basically a vetting arm uh for this uh you know for for Pat Bolan and there was so much infighting and so much there was a prior marriage and different and there that the trustees decided what was best for the Broncos was to sell to somebody else and so it was a mess and it was a mess even though it was set up with the NFL’s help you know the NFL was kind of helping them along they thought they had everything in place and done it properly and for this most uh efficient the smoothest transition to the air of the who would who would run the Broncos and it still was screwed up royally so as it was explained to me the NFL then put in some extra rules or some extra emphasis within its secession plan policies that you need to designate an actual family member with controlling interest now how does this sale of the team to a limited partner affect it I’m not entirely sure I’ll be honest because the NFL was not helpful with me in in reporting this story they are incredibly secretive when it comes to ownership bylaws requirements I mean they’ll give you the basic stuff like you know it used to be you weren’t allowed to own another sports team in a different Market or they’ll give you some of that stuff but in terms of the nitty-gritty what goes on when these other 31 teams need to approve the next owner uh or vet who they want to join their Club is all pretty clandestine um so uh but as it’s been explained to me is that the NFL felt Lucky in the Broncos situation that Joe Ellis was the adult in the room and that had Pat Bolan not included somebody like Joe Ellis in his trust uh that it really could have gone sideways it really could have turned into an embarrassing sequence of events for the NFL and its owners its fellow owners and that is what they’re ultimately trying to do well they ultimately are making money but I think that uh the number two uh mission of the NFL is to protect its 32 owners or 31 and then the Green Bay Packers um they are they circle the wagons way better than the Buffalo Bills or Chris Burman could ever dream so um so yeah so the NFL just needed they they want you to have that designated family member to handle the transition in that period in that synapse of previous owner can no longer make the decisions which we see um and to the next official owner whether it’s going to be whoever owns this chunk of the bills and maybe has right of first refusal or maybe Terry Pula says my kids are all going to get the Buffalo Bills uh in equal um percentages and I have designated Laura to be the the one who has the extra uh one percent or the or the controlling Hammer uh whatever that wishes are there is still a period in which you need to get from the previous owner to the next owner and that this this um the necessity for Laura Pula as the next uh the design is required in that regard so again it just adds a little extra mystery this is a far cry from 10 years ago Jonah when Terry Pula stood on that riser in the uh Fieldhouse and said the bills are here to stay uh and his reasoning was very sound he wasn’t lying the bills are here to stay because he said at that at that introductory news conference I’m going to give these to my kids someday well his wife was vibrant and alive and obviously with the age difference 18 years I think it is when Terry could no longer run the teams anymore his wife would be the one to run them until the kids are sufficiently ready to do it themselves and you remove Kim and everything changes immediately then you take a look at the skyrocketing values of sports when the when the pulas bought the bills for $1.4 billion just 10 years ago it was a record the record has since been broken with every subsequent sale the Broncos broke the record um the Washington commanders most recently broke the record at $ 6.05 billion Stephen Ross just yesterday or the day before uh there’s a report out there that he turned down1 billion dollar for the Miami Dolphins now that includes a stadium and he has an an Affiliated F Formula 1 race involved so that’s baked in there a little bit but 10 billion doar Steven Ross turned down for the Miami Dolphins he’s he’s also doing something similar with Terry pugula he has now bypassed his wife as the de the the next controlling owner and is designated his daughter um and I know I’m going on and on here Jonah you know you work on a story and this stuff just kind of falls out your mouth uh after a while but I will say that I think forbes’s uh average price is somewhere around 5.1 billion do that’s their valuation or their estimation for an average NFL team so okay $5.1 billion bills are obviously at the bottom end of the team so maybe let’s say they’re at four or four and a half this is a team that Terry Pula couldn’t have en well maybe could have envisioned it but it’s a lot different to transfer a one a $1.4 billion asset to your children than it is A5 billion doll asset to your children and that’s just where the number was when Forbes did its valuations back in December who knows what they’re going to that’s obviously going to go up as the broadcast deals go up as Revenue new revenue streams are found and tapped into like gambling like you know who knows what’s coming next um so anyway it’s uh it’s so what’s going to happen next we don’t know but there is more uncertainty than ever as to what will happen and who will be the one deciding what happens you know a lot of this would be rather normal and less newsworthy if if Laura pugula was the only child of Terry Pula or had been the oldest child that had always been around and always assumed to be the one to take this role especially with her business Acumen and experience in the oil business but the mystery seems to come from her coming out of the Shadows a bit and not being uh a public facing person involved with these sports franchises for many many years but becoming more and more part of the ownership group or the leadership on the Mast head if you will um not on the mast well but that’s the thing that makes it even more intriguing she’s doing all these things and she’s not named anywhere she’s not on the she’s not in the directory she’s not on the team website and yet she is she owns Equity or she has some equity in the bills and is an alternate governor of the Sabres and yet she’s nowhere listed right so maybe that’s the wrong analogy but I mean what would you say she’s showing her face a lot more often it owners she’s around and and and people have been noticing obviously she was at Lindy she was the only pugula child at Lindy Ruffs introductory news conference she was standing on stage for the photo op helping hold up the the number 24 jersey in front of Lindy Ruff and her father and and Kevin Adams yeah and sitting front row next to Pete gelly and seemingly being a decision maker and a power broker uh just from the appearances of of where she was standing and and who she was walking with and things like that so I think that’s that’s the interesting part of it is what’s changing now if she has more control and more power to assert over her father and the business in general and I think back to a conversation we had an episode or two on this ago on this podcast and just the way I thought about things you know I think it’s widely assumed and probably true in some ways that um ownership and Terry Pula had some say and some role in in the Savers coaching change uh the decision to move on from D Granado and hire Lindy Ruff absolutely um for many of us that covered the Sabers dayto day and and the people who travel with the team were there even more than I was um there was some surprise we shouldn’t have been that surprised but there was maybe some surprise because it didn’t seem like it was going that way it wasn’t you weren’t hearing a lot of Whispers and rumors about Don Granado in fact many of the reporters Matthew Farber being one of them that had asked real directly of Kevin Adams were told that Don Granado was coming back and it did seem like um that he wasn’t really on the hot seat until the very end of the season when it seemed like the temperature changed a little bit and then as soon as the season was over changed a lot and I suspected when we talked before that that seemed to coincide with Pete gelly coming in and starting his job and that maybe there were marketing and business reasons why it was decided the Sabers needed a new coach and a a more marketable name and a more marketable face as you can see Lindy Ruff is on billboards all over town now and it’s it’s a story that’s a lot easier for the Sabres to sell with Lindy Ruff as the new coach than bringing back the Old Coach but this timing also seems to coincide with you know the bombshell that you uh mentioned earlier about Laura poua being the um co-governance governor of the squ of the team you wonder if she has some role in that uh decision to make a change and and do something different and and go back to the old coach that it’s largely believ that Terry Pula maybe regretted firing Lindy Ruff in the first place but maybe this wasn’t all Terry pula’s wishes and decision to to make that move let me I don’t know where the is going to go uh but but sometimes that makes for good uh good radio right um I have a way and I have a thought in my head I’m not 100% sure how to how to articulate it so I’m going to just describe uh when people ask me and have asked me over the years uh regarding the Pula family or the intentions or the future I spoke with a degree of certainty based on what I was being told you know there is a power in the messaging that comes from an organization and if I believe what I’m being told I have a tendency to then you know if I believe in it if I believe in the person telling me this and I believe in what they’re saying and it makes sense to me and I’m obviously able to check it out with some other people too I don’t just take it at total face value but then I can go ahead and say or write in a satchel when somebody asks me a question or we’re sitting at Elmos and somebody leans over and says hey what’s going on with this or you know are the Bills ever going to move especially during all the stadium stuff you know is there are the bills are they is there really a chance they could move if they don’t get the stadium deal they want and I was able to express with a degree of certainty um what I thought was going to happen and I think and it always was you don’t have anything to worry about and I still think in general not much to worry about but I don’t believe in the messaging that much anymore and the re well I as much yeah I don’t believe as much I’m going to say I don’t believe it I don’t believe I’m not as Resolute as I used to because and this happens there’s been an erosion like there’s been such a cycle of Executives um with uh with the Pula uh sports teams there’s been you know down to you know with the exception of Brandon bean and and Shawn McDermot even with the coaches there’s been really no stability um so the voices are constantly changing I’m constantly having to learn how you know about this next person who’s telling me uh is he telling me what I want to hear am I getting fluffed am I you know what what’s happening you know you have to have to read this I will say that when I was doing this story on Laura pagul and I worked on it for months literally for months uh and I hang on let me stop not the Laura Pula part uh of Kim Pula being incapacitated Terry Pula being her guardian what the Ram ifications are for that and then you know the next step being Laura’s Ascension you know so that’s all in there the secession planning there’s it’s not I don’t want to just say this is a you know this wasn’t just a story about Laura pugula it’s bigger than that and in fact I think the most significant part for me is uh finally some sort of definitive legal in a court document by the way designation that Kim pugula has been legally incapacitated you know she’s still listed as the owner uh her picture is still on the websites you know she but she’s not coming back and I know from talking to rank and file employees they were still wondering I think they were still holding out hope there was a myy so that to me was the most newsworthy part was for the first time yes Jessica pugula wrote the column in the uh for the uh the players Tribune in which she said what happened to her mom but for the first time in a document or some sort you know there was an official word as to to Kim pula’s condition um so that to me is the most significant part of all this and then maybe Laura to a certain degree it was the way it was at first explained to me when I started asking questions about her role with the team was this isn’t a story why are you writing this story this is not you know she has no I mean I I don’t even see her around here when we’re in meetings I never have a sense that Laura pagul was making a decision you know okay well that was a bit of information early in the process and then as time goes on I keep learning that she’s involved in this meeting and she’s involved in that meeting and she’s representing the she’s at the owner meetings at Roger G Roger Goodell’s state of the League address on the first night of the owners meetings in March Laura pugula was the only pugula in there or well I don’t know if she she was rep she was representing ownership Terry Pula was sitting with Scot ratc of populace the the company that’s building that the architects of the new stadium Scott ratc former Buffalo Bills linebacker by the way Penn State guy Terry’s a big Penn State guy architect you know BSD at um uh at populace and so Terry pagul and Scott risc sat at a table just off the uh Ritz Carlton bar uh while Roger Goodell was giving his state of the league speech and Laura pugula was in there not Terry um how do I know because I was sitting 10 feet from Terry while while the state of the League meeting was going on I was not at a table near the bar I was in I was at the bar but hey you learn things at the bar sometimes and but I kept being told Laura’s Laura’s got no influence no involvement and then we come to find you know she’s at Lindy ruff’s news conference she’s involved in this meeting she’s involved in that meeting she’s a alternate Governor which I just found out today because the NHL website you know doesn’t update this stuff I finally reach out to the NHL and they confirmed it she’s an alternate Governor so I’m starting to wonder if you’re going to tell me that she has no involvement and this is all trivial and this is not a story which is something that you want to do when you don’t want the a story to be told you know Jonah we’ve both gone through that process right when you go with something that maybe is inconvenient and somebody tries to convince you that it’s not worth your time to even bother with it well now I’m starting to wonder well what else what else can I believe um you know so I don’t want to get too far into my other thoughts you know the I’ll keep them to myself and act accordingly as I move forward but if anybody asks me about the future of these teams anymore the only thing I can point to is the 30-year lease which is like what people used to do with Ralph Wilson as far as we this is as far as I can go with telling you about the Assurance of the future of your Buffalo bills or your Buffalo Sabers is to look at the lease because all the other things where I would be told and assured and people who I was like all right well now I I don’t know I don’t have that foundation in my conviction of people I’m talking to anymore it’s changed over so much it’s secretive it’s fuzzy there are no announcements as to who’s really in charge or who’s doing this role and when you start seeing these things and things being hidden or kept secret done quietly then look I’m not so the the team didn’t want me reporting these things and if I didn’t we still wouldn’t anyways I get that was just my little Soliloquy I guess of six months ago I would be I felt like I could probably answer any question with a a strong degree of confidence regarding business type stuff and the future of this or the future of that and I I can’t I’m I’m going to admit I don’t think I can anymore that everything it’s back to like the basic journalism tenant of when your mother tells you she loves you you go at go get a sec a Second Source you know it’s a joke a little cliche or a little you know a a chestnut of of learning how to do journalism 101 um it’s it’s just it’s it’s it’s a new world now and and um I think I don’t think we’re totally hitting the reset button in terms of uh expectations in the future but I think now we’re getting to the point where I can only point at a document and say this is what this document says so that’s all I can go on right now one big difference between you know the current state and by the way by the way and probably I should have slotted this in very early in my Soliloquy six months ago or whatever it was Terry Pula was not selling any of the bills I mean that would have been a ridiculous thing we’re not it’s not just what I’m being told it’s the actions that are taking place you know people used to I I used to say with a degree of certainty the Sabers are not for sale you know all that rumor that was going along the Sabers are not for sale the Sabers are not for sale look I don’t know what to tell you my sources tell me Terry pagul is not selling the Sabers well and then I could have said the same well he’s absolutely not selling any of the or selling the bills and I would also say or a piece of because I didn’t want to quibble I didn’t want to get into semantics part or partial nothing and so now here we he now the poulas have hired a firm to shop a chunk of the team everything’s changing everything’s changing so that is so it’s not just what I’m being told and maybe I don’t believe it or maybe I’m I’m suspicious more so than I’ve ever been since the since the the Ralph Wilson era since the end of the Ralph Wilson era um it’s the it’s the actions also it’s the fact that we never would have imagined Terry Pula selling a chunk of the bills not that long ago and now here they’ve admitted that they’re looking to sell a chunk of the bills well the big difference Ralph Wilson for the most part always told us what he was thinking and what he wanted and what was going on and especially with the succession plan he made it clear it’s I don’t know how many years it was but it at some point before his death several years before his death that his his wife and his children would not inherit the team that the trust would sell and that created I think more anxiety than there is now in the situation the belief that the bills would be sold and moved to another city I think was a bigger threat than it seems to be now you know Terry pagul is also younger than R fosen was at that point in time so even though there is uncertainty I don’t think there’s as much to fear about the Bills or the Sabers leaving Buffalo or or that kind of future of the franchise the stadium and the stadium lease plays into that bit but what we lost with Ralph Wilson and and also a little bit with Kim Pula was ownership that spoke to the public was a little bit more media accessible Kim Pula had a podcast um and didn’t do a lot of media but did seem to do interviews and express her beliefs and the team and the organization and the franchises hopes and goals and what they wanted to do somewhat frequently and Terry Pula does not do that and at this point we’re not hearing anything like that from Laura pugula uh we don’t know you might know but you know the public doesn’t know how any of the other children how Jesse or um Kelly and Matt and pula’s other children how their reaction is to this and we we don’t know what the ownership is thinking on things that range from you know trading Stefan Diggs to you know the hiring and firing of coaches and bigger things about the future of the franchise and the businesses and all the investments in Buffalo we used to know a lot more about what these business people were doing and thinking and feeling and now we’re left to speculate or just read your stories is really kind of the only way we learn some of these things and I think where it becomes also more dangerous to navigate for for me as somebody who’s trying to get out the clearest bit of information as he can is the amount of noise around the team that that tends to fill the vacuum in the absence of uh stronger messaging there is a long list for whatever reasons they are there is a long long list of former bills and Sabers Executives knocking around Western New York and not just Western New York they found some other jobs and they all have thoughts and they all have theories and I think sometimes a few of them get together and they don’t concoct a story but but they they sit around and try to speculate what’s going on educated speculation and then they come to kind of an agreement of yeah you know what that’s probably it that’s probably it and then they all start kind of saying it and so I might be in this segment of Western New York uh um a circle you know a circle of people and I hear from a certain former executive this and I go talk to a totally different circuit C uh um circle of people and hear the same thing coming from another form it’s probably because they’ve talked together maybe they golf together maybe they get to the 19th to together but there are so many people that get together and talk about this and these theories and speculation bubbles to the surface from people who might know and they are credible to a lot to a segment of well to a lot of people if you if if one of these people I’m thinking know name I don’t want to name anybody because I don’t want to make it seem like I’m you know former Larry Quinn not Larry Quinn I’m just gonna invent far as we can go okay Joe Joe Johnson you know former bills former psse executive Joe Johnson comes walking into the bar and uh you know you’re having your wings and he sits down he’s like hey man good to see you I haven’t seen you in months yeah it’s true we haven’t seen each other in months I haven’t sent you hey well this is you know what I’m hearing I’m hearing this well Joe Johnson has sources and Joe you know there’s all so these thing or it’s not to Tim Graham it’s to somebody else it’s to a lawyer in town or a prominent accountant in town or a certain politician in town and it starts circulating almost you that’s what fills the vacuum and so yeah a lot of these things come across my transom and I filter them out and US probably 1% I’ll take it forward and say hey I’m hearing this is there any confirmation to this or I’ll check into it most of it I just absorb as yeah interesting you know that’s interesting because I know that there are so many agendas there’s so many different people out there you’re talking about a lot of people who’ve been fired you know so there’s a lot that I need to filter and process most of it will never see the light of day even in terms of me asking somebody of consequence to confirm or deny it um but it’s out there in this market a lot and you also have two other companies that add to this because they are people who might know former New Era people former Delaware North people everybody or current for that matter everybody’s got enough juice to possibly be true and so you H that’s the thing that you know again I’m not boning this as a journalist I’m saying that there are a lot of people in town and this is why how strong rumors get started and are tough to deal with and the bills and Sab neigh know that these rumors are tough to deal with and Terry Pula absolutely knows these rumors are difficult to deal with and yet they still are they still decline to be more transparent uh about these types of things and so it’s I just think it’s I I guess if I were on their staff I would say we we need to we need to combat this more than just sit back and let it happen we can’t just be pass in terms of the way we run these teams this is a small town everybody’s talking there’s a lot of prominent people here who have axes to grind or whatever um we need to be out there in more forward facing and without Kim in that role um and she could have she should have been doing it more than even she was based in my opinion but you remove that is as her being the only one to do it and it creates a mess it creates a lot of bad info and again that’s why I rely on things like court documents and dealing with you know high high-placed sources who aren’t of the Bills or the Sabers perhaps at the league office whether it be the NFL the uh Major League Baseball Major National Hockey League um whether it be uh anything and you’re you’re constantly you know trying to get the best information you can and again like I said I’ve been working on the story for five months the bills had more than ample opportunity to comment for the story if they wanted to we bent over backwards we thought our editors I had four different editors on this part on this most recent story um the National Football League wanted nothing to do with it um it’s just it’s interesting to me uh I mean it’s it’s it’s fascinating to me probably to me more than the average fan obviously uh because I deal with this information but also as a fan you wonder what’s going to happen with your team and you’re going to invest this money there’s the taxpayer money that you really have no say over your elected officials have decided to give this money uh from the state and the county to build a new stadium but then the individual fan if you’re a season ticket holder you have to pay for this PSL and you should have I think on my primary level is this is a business and they could do with it whatever they want any any business any private business you can do with it whatever you want but this is a Civic this is a Community Asset and the teams never hesitate to lean on that leverage to get their money to extract money out of the public and their fans pockets and I think that in exchange for that you need to give up some transparency you need to give up or I said you should give up some of your privacy you should be forced to be more transparent about who you are who’s making the decisions and where your money is going as a taxpayer SL season ticket holder well said that comes from somebody who was saying I wish he’d wrap this up so we could change this I I wanted to react to something that you said you know several paragraphs ago um so it’s not really a response to where you finished to the but back to the first verse um well you know I mentioned Larry Quinn because that’s a name that it hars back to a Time mostly under previous ownerships but not not always when the team Executives you know if there was a bad rumor out there a rumor that they wanted to squash they’d give a pound the table press conference and and put that put out that fire or or you had their cell number and you call them and they’d give you a quote on the record not well you need to say this is from a team Source you didn’t get this from me but no we’re not trading Dominic ashik yeah they could speak for the team and the organization and ownership in some ways and there was some of that when Terry Pula first bought the Sabres with Ted black and there were with the bills with Russ Brandon but over time you know those president roles they either don’t exist anymore or Terry Pula and Kim Pula before him held those roles but did not speak in that you know didn’t communicate with the fan base in the same way the previous team Presidents had and now you know there are Executives um but it doesn’t seem like they have the same voice and the same and some of this is just even from the entertainment and storytelling there are less characters in the bills and the Sabers sagas uh to the fans and to the media than Larry Quinn and Russ Brandon and people like that were and I think there’s something lost in that especially with ownership that doesn’t do it itself and talk Tom Dono had a radio show didn’t he if I remember correctly yeah yeah well I was I was going but he was team president so he’s a good example but not the general yeah Bill Bill say they’re load loaded with these people but yeah they you’re right they’ve evaporated Pat La Fontaine you could imagine him having I mean whatever happened with that but yeah you could imagine these types of people being the the face of the franchise yeah and then questions and responsibilities for things go to the general managers Brandon bean and Kevin Adams and either sometimes they really can’t Broach subjects or they have to do it in delicate ways um there’s just there’s a of communication that’s needed whether it’s from Team presidents team Executives or ownership itself that’s been missing from both of these franchises for a good while now and even more so in the past year and a half two years yeah I think paranoia has has grown in sports in general I don’t know that that’s just a Pula sports team aspect but it certainly is emphasized here there are other teams that aren’t paranoid uh you know uh Jordan rodrig who covers the Rams for the athletic just put out a year-long piece that she did on scouting in which she was allowed to Shadow The Scouting department on College visits and working out players I mean this is something that is just not done uh Bill bich let Michael Holly sit in uh I think it’s Patriot Reign there’s a handful of Patriots books out there but I think it was Patriot rain was the one in which he let a Boston Globe columnist sit in with the team on meetings for a full year to write about what it’s like behind the scenes at the New England Patriots this was Bill bich this is when they were winning Super Bowls I mean so you know that it does happen out there and look and let’s also not go too much farther without mentioning Brandon Bean being about as CL the class of transparency among probably any general manager maybe not with you know what the Rams were doing with uh letting everybody you know letting somebody tag along on your your scouting trips but Brandon bean and uh and Joe Shane when he was the assistant general manager once let Matthew Fairburn go on the team plane to go on a scouting trip and go watch game or college football games and look at players and stuff he they’ve been open um but that’s Brandon bean and uh there are when it comes to other things I mean that’s football operations Brandon Bean should not be talking uh about for instance Teo spikes being pissed off at the way the bills are treating the alumni you know Brandon Bean was the only person who could talk about that last year if you recall that was a story that went viral a photo of Teo spikes that I thought was irresponsible on Teo spikes’ part it was misleading um and so but the follow-up story it was Brandon Bean who had to handle it this guy’s trying to win a Super Bowl he shouldn’t have to worry about this [ __ ] but there’s nobody else to do it there is there’s Terry’s not going to talk about it who would have talked about it they didn’t have a COO at the time because John Roth had been fired so who’s going to do it well it’s got to be got to be Terry or it’s got to be Brandon bean and so yeah five stars five stars Brandon Bean best best executive I’ve ever worked with uh in terms of accessibility transparency he deserves High Praise he’s W NFL awards for it uh the good guy award at the at the league level all that type of stuff bends over backwards for you well never turns down an interview um but that’s football operation stuff and we’re talking about you know the the business side of it and that’s been and the S on the Sabers you don’t really have that either but um yeah badly missing um your thoughts on Lindy Ruff as the next head coach of the Buffalo Sabres I mean I I might be more interested in your thoughts haven’t covered them and know him a lot better than I do and what you think the changes that he’ll make with the way he coaches the team and and also maybe this is a better discussion off the podcast but this is the kind of thing we talk about on this podcast what it’s going to be like covering them and the differences between Lindy Ruff and and coaches that have succeeded him and that I’ve covered because I didn’t cover the Savers back before Lindy Ruff was fired 11 years ago but initially my reaction was somewhat surprised and the same with Don Granado being fired shouldn’t have been surprised I didn’t get the read from Kevin Adams from the Press conf that this was already the move he wanted to make and it was decided it seemed like he was Resolute in looking around and finding his guy and the best coach and maybe that is what he did and maybe he did talk to double digit candidates in five nights and find that uh you like as soon as those words came out of his mouth he was automatically like oh [ __ ] because the next words out of his mouth were I was taking calls as soon as that press conference was over and I was taking them late into the night and early in the morning man I was because you’re doing the math you’re like m you interviewed two two people a day at least I thought that was funny yeah it really and this is this is my analysis not reporting anything concrete that I’ve heard but it really does seem at this point like this was decided maybe even before the season ended but before or right around the time that Don Granado was fired that Lindy Ruff would be hired as the next coach and that maybe a coaching search wasn’t necessary um Kevin Adams at his initial press conference made it sound like he was going to go on a coaching search although he did drop some hints that maybe it wouldn’t be a wide net that he kind of knew a few names and you know maybe maybe he did want Rob bremore and found out that that wouldn’t be possible and then he circled his way back you know there’s also been somebody tweeted that uh you know they talked to Craig baru and he didn’t want to uh you know discuss the job with the Sabers so maybe they got some rejections and went to Lindy Ruff because they knew they weren’t going to get rejected by him all that said um I think I think it’s going to have a positive effect on the team and the development and where this roster is and the youth and what it needs and there were so many times I think in previous Seasons where you you’d almost say it kind of in justess you’d be like oh what would this be like if Lindy Ru was coaching this team how would this player be used or how would that game How would how would they have reacted to that player how would things go with Lindy Ruff as the coach and it was thought of like well that can’t happen because he’s the coach of the New Jersey Devils and that last year they’re having a good year and it actually although you did report that he interviewed in 2019 when they hired Ralph Krueger this reunion could have happened sooner other than that point in time my source on that by the way was uh I can re I think I said it that was not like a league source told me that Lindy Ruff interviewed for that job that Ralph Krueger got Lindy Ruff told me and I think I was interviewing him for another story and at the end of the call I’m like did you interview for that job and there was no like hey this is off the Record in fact Lindy Ruff doesn’t do off the Record which is pretty cool I think he’s one of the only people I’ve ever dealt with he’s like I I asked him one time I’m like you know if this you want to say that I just want to ask you a quick question if you want to keep it off the Record and he’s like there is no off the record I was like all right and so yeah Lindy Ruff himself is the one who told me he wanted that job didn’t get it he was uh not he was he was a little upset about it so it’s a good buffalo story I think more fans than not like having Lindy Ruff back in the sabers fold and like the reunion aspect of it and you know the Nostalgia even though Kevin Adams has been very adamant and trying to say that that didn’t play much of a role in bringing back Lindy Ruff but from the marketing and storytelling and ultimately ticket selling and getting the fan base excited that Nostalgia is very important you can see it in the videos at the saber social media team is promoting and they put him in the black and red jacket you know he played and Coach teams that wore blue and gold but he’s very strongly identified with those really successful teams 99 that went to The Cup Final and he’s with all the Wardrobe changes right yeah the slug even the slug teams you know he coached those too um so there’s you know this is like a movie and you’re casting characters Lindy Ruff is the best coach to bring back you know as a recurring character and a former star and he played here was a team captain still lives here you know there’s a lot of reasons why Lindy Ruff was the best choice to be the new face of the Sabres which this franchise really needs even with excellent players none of those players I think have really emerged from a personality standpoint as the face of the franchise they didn’t have that since they traded Jack eel Don Granado was kind of that face of the franchise because he spoke so often and was very accessible but they didn’t win and he wasn’t a big star of a coach to to Really succeed in doing that and maybe that’s part of the reason why you know they haven’t been filling the building there’s a lot of reasons why they haven’t been filling the building but I think Lindy Ruff being the coach helps in that regard and I do think he’s going to have a positive effect on the team on the ice especially where they are at um where a lot of players are at in their development Curves in their age I think it’s a good situation for Lindy Ruff because this team I think is set up to succeed next year regardless of the coaching but his coaching style is what a lot of these players in this group needs right now maybe with a few W roster tweaks but all the things that we’ve wanteded you know a more aggressive forwards and and better structure on defense Lindy Ruff is gonna bring um but and not to knock Lindy Ruff because like I’m saying I do think he’s going to lead them to the playoffs and take this team to that next step and succeed here in that regard but Lindy Ruff got fired by the Sabres 11 years ago for reasons and Lindy Ruff was fired by the Dallas Stars four or five years ago whenever that was and most recently fired in season with five years left on his contract by the New Jersey Devils for reasons and and you have to look back and talk to a lot of people to figure out if that’s a pattern if it’s the same reason why after a certain number of years it stopped working and that’s the NHL they make coaching changes quickly very often but it you know you wonder if is Don Granado was probably the right coach for that past moment in time with the Sabers to get them from the bottom where they were with the losing streaks and Jack eel wanting to be traded and holding out basically to where they were almost being a competitive team and being almost in the playoffs and now Lindy Ruff seems like the right man for the job of getting him to that next level of in the playoffs and you know somewhat return to Glory but I wonder if he’s really the right coach to try to win a Stanley Cup and with all the young players and the assets the Savers have you know there is an opportunity to be a championship team if the Right Moves are made you know a lot of that falls on the general manager Kevin Adams but if if they make the Right Moves and they develop the right players in the right way and have the right coaching they can compete for Stanley Cups and win multiple Stanley Cups and maybe maybe not maybe this is where I’ll ask you to anal analyze this because you covered Lindy Ruff coaching the Sabers to the Eastern Conference Finals I don’t think you were here when they went to The Cup finals in 99 but no I started right after that yeah do you think Lindy Ruff can take this team all the way to the top of the Mountaintop and how much time does he have left to do that and be that coach I think he can um I think his floor is getting in the playoffs he’s not going to mess it up and this is a team that desperately needs to get into the playoffs I think as you mentioned there’s the push aspect of it he is a motivator um a manipulator in a good way like he’s able to get the most out of guys uh maybe his message wears out after a while but he signed only a twoyear contract I think that’s healthy um I wonder if uh if he’ll be the next general manager quite frankly but uh that’s a discussion for another podcast uh but actually well go on I do actually want to dive in on that a little bit Yeah but he has gone deep into the playoffs a bunch of times and and getting into the playoffs and going long has a lot to do with managing your roster it is getting you ready for the stress and the pressure and the CLE lights every other night for a month and a half or however long it’s going to take for you to make your run and he’s gone long a lot he’s the type of guy that it seemed like he enjoyed being the lower seed because he liked breaking serve within those first two games you know he his his record as the lower seed is is fascinatingly good uh and then his teams obviously they feed off energy there’s he’s he he just see he’s done it now no he’s not won the Stanley Cup but he’s also taken some teams of overachievers pretty deep so I think he can do it I think he’s he’s has the experience that’s the one thing that always marveled me about Don Granado and his staff other than the gending coach they had no NHL postseason experience zero they had some East Coast Hockey League playoff experience I always wondered what was going to happen with if Don Granado did get to the playoffs I wanted just to see how he reacted in the moment you know when when it’s you know the intens that’s the thing that’s so beautiful about the National Hockey League is that the game changes from the regular season to the postseason just it’s it’s wild and that’s what makes it so fun um I would like to have seen if they if Don Granado was what he was gonna do um but anyway so that’s that’s my take on on Lindy Ruff I think he’s is he the per he might be actually the perfect choice in terms of the most boxes being checked is he the choice that if we were to look back on it 10 years from now uh and you know maybe somebody could have done a little different or a little better based on their age or where they are in their careers or you know whatever but I think for right now I think Lindy Ruff is a great choice I think the Nostalgia part of it is an added bonus I actually agree with what Kevin Adams said I just found it odd that he came out and said it it was almost like he was defending the hire before Lindy Ruff even had his introductory news conference um and because you I don’t think you need to defend this hire uh because of all the things I just said I think he’s I I like it I think the players are going to respond to him yeah the right now is the important thing I think fans and even us as media cover in this team should live in the present and pay most attention to the uniqueness of this story a coach coming back who played for the franchise and you know how interesting that is and turning this team that’s missed the playoffs in NHL record 13 Seasons into a playoff team and how that happens what changes are made or what um differences we see from players who have played here for a while but maybe have different elements of their game that they’ll showcase under different coaching and just what what that’s like over the next year or two um but you know succession plans is kind of the theme of this podcast and where we started and I think it’s very natural to kind of think what comes next you mentioned Lindy Ruff possibly being the next general manager of the team it seems like he’s like an assistant manager perhaps getting Seth Apert ready to replace him right well so there’s that idea that maybe Seth Apert who’s doing a good job in Rochester and you know the AMS are in the playoffs right now so there’s Intrigue in watching them if you think Seth aert could potentially be a future Savers coach or you know when the job was vacant a lot of people thought maybe he would be a candidate to be the next Sabers coach but is is he going to join Lindy Ruffin assistant and maybe be the coach in waiting for sometime down the line uh when Lindy Ruff is not coaching the team anymore or is it going to be somebody who has more of a background with Lindy Ruff Michael Pekka or another former player who’s in the league that maybe from the Lindy Ruff standpoint makes more sense than Seth aert is that um understudy coaching waiting and and figuring out who that is and then seeing that play out and how that happens to three four years down the line you know is something it probably is a discussion for another podcast but it’s an interesting thing to start thinking about right now yeah we’re getting a little long here and I still want to at least touch on the Bill’s draft um and the uh and and the bandits because you’ve been covering them they’re in the uh they’re in the nlll semi-finals at the moment about to start a series against Toronto um so let’s just shift over to the Bills draft um I’ll give my quick thought do I know these players no uh I’m not a huge college football guy I’m not a film guy I’m not going to pretend to know that this guy is the right fit or the worst fit any of that [ __ ] I will say though I like the Bill’s approach to this draft I even said it on the Buffalo kickoff live show my prediction as to what the bills were going to do in the first round was trade out of it and the reason being is that Brandon Bean a week before the draft at a news conference said that he did not have 28 first round grades on players and that was where the bills were picking 28th overall therefore if a first round pick doesn’t have the value of a first round pick trade it so that way you can get the value and other things a little further back so Brandon Bean ends up trading with Carolina to move back to 32 and then trades with uh who had the first pick was it uh was it Chicago again or who who pick they get whatever 33 sorry Carolina oh yeah second trade Kansas City was the first TR right right right right of course of course of course because of the Xavier worthy we got you know that so that that drama I’m sorry it’s let me rephrase just so I can I’m going to speak it again so that way hopefully I remember and say it properly so the Bills trade from 28 to 32 with the Kansas City Chiefs and then trade with Carolina to go from 32 to 33 to have the first pick of the second day of the uh of the draft um and gathered more assets and uh I heard uh someone say I was listening to wgr one day and I can’t remember who said it and I thought it was spoken very well my I I don’t want to say the wrong analyst but anyway they had somebody on the air who mentioned um don’t look at it as maybe losing out on Xavier worthy and necessarily comparing um Keon Coleman to Xavier worthy you got Keon Coleman and Dwayne Carter the defensive tackle from Duke you didn’t just move back and maybe Lose a Guy and whatever he’s going to look like having Patrick Mahomes throwing him the ball he’s probably going to look decent uh but you got additional assets that’s the whole point of trading back so I think that the bills got a receiver that they were happy with plus other things Dwayne Carter being the headliner and everybody seems to love Dwayne Carter the defensive tackle from duke won the news conference you know man’s man grown up sounded like he was 30 years old he’s been around the world a few times you don’t get into Duke easily uh to begin with uh because of the grades that are required and then you usually aren’t a three-time captain of your football team so it sounds like this guy is classic sha mcdermit culture dude and by the way he’s pretty good yeah I mean that’s always the exercise and the justification you can do when trading back you always get more assets so there’s always extra players and it’s this player plus that player it’s the same logic that you I know there were multiple moves involved in this but in a sense this the bills got Josh alen and travius white for trading away the pick that went to Patrick Mahomes and for many years it seemed like you know that was a good trade for the bills now with travius white no longer on the team and Patrick Mahomes has three Super Bowls and beaten the bills in the playoffs as many times as he has you wonder if you know that makes the same sense as it did two three four five years ago if he made that argument but I think the risk is look I I do think the bills played this right if ke Coleman was the guy they wanted they actually played it perfectly being able to trade down twice and still get the receiver that we assume if they couldn’t made a trade that’s who they would have taken at 28 but you know it wasn’t just Xavier worthy and if Xavier worthy burns the bills in a playoff game I think it’s going to sting a lot for the fans and the team itself that you know they had that opportunity Patrick Mahomes is a quarterback who could have drafted Xavier Worthy is a wide receiver that they could have drafted and the these are the guys that are beating the bills in the playoffs maybe that won’t happen maybe Xavier worthy will be a bust and the bills will look brilliant for the moves that they made but there were three receivers taken before the bills picked again and Keon Coleman was I think the eighth receiver drafted there’s seven in the first round eighth receiver drafted that was the Bill’s biggest need and it was a wide receiver deep draft a lot of people a lot of people thought they were going to trade up for a receiver and get one of the top three or four receivers in the draft they end getting the eighth receiver they better be right he better be as good or better than many of the receivers they were taken in the first round because there were an opportunity to get a very good receiver and they let the entire league the entire round of the draft every team in the league decide that seven other receivers should have been drafted first and then they picked the eighth guy at the top of the second round and you look brilliant if he turns into a first round Calibur receiver and you also get Dwayne Carter out of that deal and everything works out but I think you look stupid if he’s not as good as really not any of the receivers in the draft but any of the receivers that they could have had in the 20s they passed on that I mean unless Dwayne Carter is an all pro and then you say hey it worked out in the long run and I like Keon Coleman he doesn’t have to be an all pro well no but I mean if is the Superstar and Keon Coleman’s the bus maybe that makes the trade work out yes um maybe I I just to put a point you know to I think to emphasize what you’re saying I don’t and I don’t even know well all right so I I’ll I’ll lay it out and you can decide um as I was talking I was giving my effusive praise to Brandon Bean earlier I was asked this uh by someone um uh I was I did a speaking engagement with Josh Reid uh Channel 4 Sports director Josh Reid at uh St Andrews Church and uh Kenmore uh earlier this week and was asked never been there no you should go you should go before they close it because it’s it’s on the verge it’s it’s on the list um but I was asked about uh something about Brandon be and they were asking they were like what’s it really like you know with the media and dealing with these guys and stuff like that and it came out as part of the discussion that Brandon Bean does not lie I’ve never caught Brandon Bean telling a lie even a fib you know like guys do in sport reports to smokees screen deflect all these other types of things and when you ask especially like when he’s talking about what they made do in the draft he speaks in hypotheticals and things like that but when you ask him a question I’ve never gone away or two weeks later found out hey that man jerk he jerked me around you know like I asked him a question about that he he told me no and now that it came to be you know like all that stuff which happens so often as you know we were discussing earlier and I asked him uh when he came down to talk to us after they drafted Keon Coleman he came out to speak for a few minutes before then returning to the draft room so we could get started on Keon Coleman coverage him being the first pick um and I asked him because he said we were he had said the day before we were ready to pick at 32 and Carolina offered us uh a deal to move up we took it but we were ready to pick a 32 so he sits down for this new conference after they picked Keon Coleman and I said was Keon Coleman who you were going to pick at 32 and he said we had a group of players there that we were looking at if Keon Coleman was who they were going to take at 32 Brandon Bean would have said yes so that to me was him saying they would have taken Legette you know or whatever but again they had a group of guys maybe Coleman would have been the pick if they start if they got no offers at all maybe it was Coleman maybe it would have been Legette I don’t know what but I just think uh I I thought that was interesting and that kind of plays into they had a group of dudes that they were happy with but if somebody’s going to come by and give us some extra draft picks we’re going to take it and that’s what they did and that’s smart that’s smart football smart roster management I should say um just last point on the draft again I don’t know these guys but you take away from people you trust you know people who you talk to or they have a strong opinion on somebody people who’s who’s cred who’s has high credibility I was really um I was really drawn to the Bill’s draft room reaction to getting Cole Bishop they were they seemed a borderline ecstatic with this second round pick the safety from Utah and then Brandon Bean said later that they were looking to actually move up to make sure that they got him but they couldn’t find any takers to move up they ended up still getting uh Cole Bishop with the uh 30 or with the 60th pick overall Keon Coleman was 33 Cole Bishop was 60 Dwayne Carter was 95 those were your day two picks um so that to me I that just leads me to believe that they they feel Cole Bishop is going to be a very important player in sha mcdermit defense I’m not going to say he’s going to be because I don’t know but I think that what part of my job as being being a Storyteller or being somebody who’s been around the block once or twice is to tell you what you should pay attention to as a fan or what I should pay attention to and I was paying attention to the reaction in the draft room to Cole them getting Cole bishop and what’s nice about Cole Bishop is they probably don’t need him to play a lot right away it isn’t a situation where he’s being drafted specifically to start in Micah Hy’s position or Jordan pu’s position they might have two starting safeties they almost definitely have one in Taylor WP to take over that spot and he can be you he can be brought along a little bit slowly and not counted on to do too much especially from the mental aspect of what the bills ask of their safeties Cole Bishop is probably I I shouldn’t say probably but Cole Bishop has an excellent chance of being that player eventually but asking a rookie to do that on day one um seems like a lot and could put your defense could compromise your defense expecting too much out of that from a rookie right away but because he doesn’t have to do that right away he can be used as a versatile piece learning both safety spots nickel cornerback you know different robber type that third safety position that Jordan puyer and Taylor rap played a bit last year almost like a linebacker and they can play him to his strength and use him in all different places to be a bit of a weapon as a rookie but not be asked to do too much and then when he does develop into an every down player he can also still be used in different ways he’s learned the whole defense from different different positions it just really is a great fit the way Shawn McDermot develops defensive backs um not having to trade up but still feeling one of the biggest needs on the team with the second pick in the second round yeah there’s a lot to like about the player and the pick and everything that went into getting that guy your Bandit’s thoughts Jonah before we wrap this up well I’ve been covering I covered about half of the home games I believe this year in the first playoff game and they’re going into the league semifinals which in previous years would have been the Conference Finals at this point but that’s not how the nlll does the standings of the playoffs any longer but they’re still playing their rival to Toronto Rock the team that they played in the Eastern Conference Finals the past two years and swept them both times and have actually beat him in five straight playoff matchups going back in the past three postseasons so this is like a you know a storied rivalry in the NL and especially in this stage of the playoffs it’s the fourth year in a row they’ve met and the bandits have had their number in all five matchups and swept Toronto in the regular season series winning both games by two goals but Toronto the Toronto Rock are the number one seed they had the best record in the league they only lost three games all year two of those were to the Bandit so they lost one other game and it’s going to be probably a hardfought series it opens up on the road in Hamilton which is where the Toronto Rock now play the bandits draw a lot of fans from Southern Ontario there too it it might not be a totally split crowd but it’s going to be somewhat of a split crowd and then game two back in Buffalo on Sunday night I think they got about 18,000 fans for the playoff game last week that was the announced number it was a pretty full building and that was with the third day of the draft and maybe some other things going on that weekend I think there’s a good chance it could be closer to a sellout this time and you know the bandits it’s the more I cover it the more you might get interested in the lacrosse story lines and the back and forth but the bandits really are an event Bandit land and the energy in the building a little bit cheaper to get in playoff atmosphere which we haven’t had in that building in 13 years and you know the Bills play playoff games but it’s only one or two a year so having this kind of playoff run and being able to go to multiple playoff games they won the championship on their home turf last year so these are you know from an entertainment standpoint these are things that don’t happen with other sports here in Buffalo very often so it’s a fun thing to be a part of and to follow whether the bandits ultimately win the game or the championship or not but happened to be you know one of the best teams in the league the two leaders in the danne Smith and Josh burn were one actually it was the other way around Josh burn and Dan Smith were onew in the league and scoring this year and I’m writing a story for wb.com tonight about the midseason moves and tweaks they made to get a little bit better on defense and a little bit better on faceoffs they didn’t even have a Faceoff guy for half the year they were pretty much conceding faceoffs and then they made a move and got a guy that has helped them out Conor frell is his name so there you know you get into the Inside Lacrosse if you will aspects of why the bandits win or lose because all the games most of the games are close but from if you’re not already into it in that level just watch this team you know the games on local television the road games are on local television cw23 here in games one and three the home game will be on ESPNU Sunday’s game uh game two but you could just watch just to see uh you know the two leading scorers in the league and the bandits are the highest scoring team in the league and maybe the biggest rival I think these are the two longest standing franchises in the league in their same City Buffalo I believe is the oldest franchise that stayed in its own City since the start of the league and Toronto number two they’ve played in the playoffs many times over the years and especially the past four postseasons so there’s a lot of story lines and entertainment value and just watching that for that sake can you give the TV again because I think I have I maybe wrote it down wrong I had something else written down so Friday night’s game television Friday night’s game’s on cw23 local it’s channel 23 I think on most Cable Systems but it’s the CW network if you happen to get that on streaming or something else like that that’s only in Western New York probably some of Southern Ontario might pick up that channel too right and then game two is ESPN ESPNU ESPNU and then game three is back on cw23 yep okay which is necessary it’s a three- game series there might not be a game three and then for people outside of Buffalo that can’t get cw23 all the games are on ESPN plus and if you’re a Canadian listener TSN plus and I think TSN Television I don’t know that detail also has a game wgr radio they do the game as well do you go up to Hamilton tomorrow for game one I’m not going up for game one but I think that if it goes to game three deciding game uh that has not been decided yet but you know that might be something that we travel to cover um because it could be the last game of the season for the bandits or it could be the the game that they win and then move on to the championship finals and it’s on your air or next star air I should say yep where the rights holders do get at least in the home games I I haven’t covered any of the road games but in the home games you know wbb news4 gets a little bit of not extra access but closer access we get inside the ropes a little bit um win these Gam GES are being broadcast on our air which is you know it’s good for me Jonah thanks for this it’s this is a long podcast if you hung on this long thank you please remember dble it’s a double issue it’s like the Sports Illustrated swimsuit issue we didn’t have one lastek and we got to throw some sport stories in there too uh yeah please subscribe like comment do all the things rate US whatever whatever you’re allowed to do on your platform of choice click those buttons it helps us get out there to a wider audience and do our thing and we’re grateful as always to everybody for listening uh to Tim Graham and friends brought to you by ctbk and uh we’ll be back uh sooner for the next episode than we were from the last episode ctbk gives Executives and owners of mid-market businesses unparalleled confidence and Clarity so you can focus on strategic objectives and organization success their multidisciplinary advisers accountants and team members have a wealth of experience and are all available and responsive to each client to ensure the most effective advice actions and outcomes no matter the 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