Rugby’s Greatest Party – Hong Kong SVNS with Special Guests!

The Good, The Bad & The Rugby record a special podcast from the greatest party in rugby – the Hong Kong Sevens. Alex, Hask and Tins are joined by special guests: Rob Vickerman, DJ Forbes, David Campese, and former England Footballer David James.

0.01 – Show Intro
1:11 – Show Starts
2:18 – Rob Vickerman joins us
5:10 – The SVNS vision
8:48 – 3 Ingredients for Success
12:37 – Strong UK presence
14:45 – SVNS in 12 months
16:00 – DJ Forbes
19:23 – Dupont – The Challenge
22:53 – Gordon Tietjens
24:50 – Biggest Star in SVNS
28:01 – Defining moments
29:30 – David Campese joins us
30:40 – Sevens History
32:16 – The Lions
37:10 – Building Superstars
40:45 – A Special Guest
46:24 – A night out in Exeter

Season 4 is sponsored by Continental Tyres.

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@hongkong @hongkongsevens

#hongkongsevens #rugbyunion #podcast

ladies and gentlemen if I said to you
what is the biggest party in rugby if
you could show me anything other than
the Hong Kong sevs I think the three of
us would buy a ticket welcome to this
week’s Good The Bad and The rugby in
partnership with our very good friends
the con tires from Hong Kong where this
place is going off Hask and tins are
alongside and on this week’s show we’re
getting into the state of the game of
sevens there’s a lot of fun to be had
but there’s improvement too Hask has
been here for three or four days how
good has this been what an unbelievable
place what a Vibe every Stadium needs a
South stand if you haven’t got a South
stand what are you even doing playing
sport in front of one what have we
learned in the 12 hours that we’ve been
here um pace yourself uh because it
could go anywhere and you always got to
be prepared like the Boy Scouts say
always be prepared always be prepared
the aim of this show is to get seven
guests talking about the state of sevens
but it’s the Hong Kong sevens anything
goes hold on tight and enjoy the
show 1
well it’s the morning after the night
before and I think it’s fair to say what
a night it was one or two of us have
been well and truly Hong Kong HK KO for
one in particular hko exactly um and I
think probably from one of the worst
ever Viking claps and one of the best
ever 12-hour sessions any of us have
ever had in the stadium I don’t quite
understand how someone can be a DJ and
be so uncoordinated Mal coordinated
understand he just claps like he’s a
three-year-old I didn’t know we were
clapping no one Fu no no one told me I
didn’t know what it was and then I
thought you put your hands up clapping
you no I like what are you doing and
then I looked at the video and I am
behind are you talking cuz there is of a
voice left we’ll just subtitle some
intelligence onto the bottom of the
screen um we are going to take about an
hour just to have a little look at the
state of play in sevens where is it now
where is it going how good was it its
absolute Pomp and how good could it
potentially be as well and we’ve got an
array of guests who are going to join us
uh to come and give their view all
wrapped around the greatest party the
greatest sevens event that there is
which is obviously here in Hong Kong and
it’s a very warm welcome firstly to the
shirt and secondly to the man inside it
the great Rob Vickman who is not only
one of the greats of English sevens
rugby but also now part of world rug are
you allowed to wear that as as a world
rugby so here’s one for you employ first
and foremost this is Seven’s merch is it
really is available to buy or good
Outlets good and is a representation of
how 10 commercial interest is it sadly
not actually but the B will be they got
double XL triple XL no I just stick to
small tends to be a bit
TI as small as possible is generally
wrong it’s not tight it’s not right
that’s the way it goes but no wonderful
to be here isn’t it I’ve never felt so
underdressed in a Hawaiian shirt before
it’s extraordinary isn’t it but also
that tends to sum up just how much fun
how much sort of how how seven
approaches the game and I think all of
us would agree that that we need to see
more of that can we just start what is
your official job title at World rug my
official job title Alex is teams
marketing and Commercial operations
which is essentially a way of trying to
get opportunities for players unions and
teams in a way that perhaps worldby
haven’t done before so how can we use
the back room World Ruby to support the
teams and unions to grow to be more
commercial and more sustainable that’s
the pitch that’s the message in because
as you can see this is an absolutely
wonderful product when it’s done right
and what people will see as the show
develops is the sou stand in particular
behind us begin to F and there’ll be a
lot of noise from there later on today
lots of corporate activity as well it’s
a very very good day out but what I want
to start with with you is as someone who
had 10 years on the circuit if not
longer yeah where is sevens right now
and where is it going relative to what
you knew as a player yeah it’s a great
question and actually I wind it back a
little bit because in 2009 it was
officially introduced as an Olympic
sport I was still playing for England
then and that changed the conversation
for what sevens could be the caveat for
them was as it progressed it hit a 2016
in Rio where the world saw sevens they
saw the Fiji story ad led by Ben Ryan
which was amazing but it was a hit out
we didn’t know what it was going to be
like four years further on from that it
was then the pandemic in Tokyo was
looking enough to be there commentating
in an empty Stadium the seven still
stacked up but the experienc the event
it wasn’t there however now where we’re
going with a bit of a change up at World
Ruby now taking in ownership of events
apart from three they incumbents that
are still being run as with this one
we’re going to a market that gets rugby
that loves rugby the French are going to
adopt it it’s going to be the an anwand
dupon show preceding it rightly so
because it’s the poster boy of the game
and it’s going to be super sonic that’s
going to be the true realization for
where sevens can go and a wonderful
occasion in Paris the end of July six
days or seven days because they’re
breaking it up for the opening CM the
first medal that will be produced the
Olympic Games will be a rugby sevs medal
it’s going to be sold out the St of
France that is pretty exciting
unbelievable and I wonder if Antoine
will get the medal this time that
obviously he didn’t get at the Rugby
World Cup at the tail end of last year
the vision for sevens then are you
seeing it as a sport in which players
can go between the two like a dupon and
a Michael Hooper or are you seeing a
separate entity which grows its own
Stars it’s a slightly different sort of
tournament calendar formula Etc what
what is what is going to be the
relationship between 15s and sevens I’m
glad he’s asking the questions not used
to as that was a fantastic wonderfully
wellp put question thank and it’s a
really relevant one because again back
in 2009 when Olympics was announced
Union were like okay what do we do we we
need to create programs and Pathways to
to ring fence our talent alone to we can
grow that Olympic pathway so it became
full-time many teams you’re now seeing
here are full-time sevens players that
was a dial change but it also meant that
the players who were flip-flopping
between 15s and sevens had a bit of a
decision to make and at the time if
you’re 18 1920 you had the ability to
travel the world to hit then 10 iconic
cities now eight with Commonwealth Games
Olympic Pathways and a wonderful
experience in life do you want to do
that or do you want to go down a 15’s
route which you we’ll all contest is
quite more attritional it’s pretty
full-on and it’s different it’s a
different option and pathway so that’s
why it changed a little bit in terms of
the grand plan for where it could go
it’s balancing the both because as you
can see when you get an event right when
you Market it properly there is nothing
like this in R it’s remarkable my worry
about it though is you need that
crossover the biggest thing that’s
happened to sevens is Anton Theon going
and playing sevens because he’s he’s
huge in in the 15 so you need to have
that crossover even going back to when
Ole you played olle Phillips played Dan
Norton played you know is GB is GB the
right thing to have or should we have an
England Wales Scotland should we have
that I sort of Miss I used to love
watching those guys play as England yeah
obviously vest that we both were good
mates with L Phillips and everything
else but
it’s having that balance why why was it
so good back in the pop when Cullen
played when lomu played you know you
need the crossover of players My worry
is is if it suddenly turns into
completely solely sevens has it going to
hasn’t got the market but obviously the
the day out is fantastic everyone knows
it yeah and why it’s Unique is problem
is with rugby if you come into an
international work in the corporate
space that I work people come in in 3
hours they just go absolutely absolutely
nuts and Elite whereas here there’s a
nice flow about it you obviously we
spent all day yesterday walking around
seeing the sponsors moving around and
there’s a whole day where you can
actually get work if you want to do it
as a corporate gig you can get work done
here because you’ve got the whole day
here you don’t have to go mental whereas
at twiking them now I reckon 50% of the
people who go won’t remember them won
remember the game you know what I mean
whereas here a bit differently obviously
South maybe unique in its own right but
um That’s My worry is I think you need
that crossover to not just have Sev fan
you need to bring the whole rugby
Fraternity in they all know what you’ll
get as a day out but the product always
can I just come on that because that’s a
really relevant point we obviously want
Dupont to be playing because he’s the
he’s the Marquee name and he’s wonderful
at sevens Sunny Bill Williams Rio did
the same Brian Aban had a crack couldn’t
make it these are freakish athletes so
we’re not just going to cherry pick the
best Ruby players but what I’ll do is
flip it and say how do we get to the
point where they want to compete in
Olympic Games and that’s probably a
little bit of a financial thing as well
that the IPL works because they’re the
best cricket players on the planet yes
as a whole that go and entertain they’re
also paid astonishingly well live
similar concept you’re getting these
conversations because it’s a financial
transaction so we need to grow that
which is why it needs to be a commercial
product and grown as a commercial
product which is exactly the question I
was going to ask is that if you were
trying to find three ingredients to get
sevens to explode money has to be in
there what what what other two would you
put the three we try and use sevens to
talk about is is about forming the
Casual viewer how do you get them to
think oh actually Rugby’s a pretty cool
sport it’s simplistic in the fact that
it’s seven rather than 15 the laws are
slightly easier to understand I won’t
say they’re easy to understand but
easier there’s the engagement which you
see here don’t just make it rugby you go
to attend the sevens you don’t go to
sevens rugby to watch just the teams
play so it’s immersive it’s it’s food
beverage it’s music it’s getting really
good DJs to play and and has we found
any of those yeah and he can help you
know but that’s it you need to make the
whole thing sing so it’s immersive it’s
got to be informative it’s got to be
engaging but ultimately it needs to be
financial and that’s why the change has
happened can I ask you a question about
being here it’s absolutely Sensational
but as a viewer on television it’s a big
ask it’s two if not three days the Peaks
and troughs are very very different to
80 minutes of Six Nations rugby where
you’re in you get right into the center
of it and then you’re out of the back of
it how how big a challenge is it to make
the product box office for television
yeah it’s a very good point I think I
don’t know what the the easy answer is
to that because you know when you’re
having a prolonged um amount of play
which is very different as you said I
think obviously the fact that the game
is as limited players in the field there
is a lot of entertainment around that
you the footwork the carries the big
moments it can turn you know we were
watching Spain versus um South Africa
and then was you know the the Spanish
ladies were up 19 points almost threw it
away and you don’t really get that in
like being happening I think sevens has
always gone on a little bit of a roller
coasters there’s a part where you’ll
always remember the way you used to love
watching it the skill sets the I feel
generally in rugby the players don’t
ever let the side down like whether it
be International Rugby in 15s or whether
it’s sevens the skill sets and
everything else are there it’s the
commercialization of how we actually
maximize what we what we do and how the
players uh benefit off the back of that
and that’s that’s the the biggest
question for someone like Rob how do you
do how do you do that consistently that
you you then benefit the game I quite I
quite like the idea that 15 15s guys
should switch to seven Sev should Swip
to 15 and you know we so many other
sports do it where you know the All
Blacks for so long would have a
sabatical they go away and do something
else Sunny bill has done more Sports
than anyone else and we’ve got to
encourage that cuz that actually brings
more fans to the table I was going to
just say I think one of the things that
I think was holding sevens back a little
bit was was obviously back in the day we
talked about it I think coaches saw a
lot of value in it yes I think they saw
real real value in going away uh adap to
your core skills because your core
skills are exposed in rugby like no
other in sevens and I think a lot of
players can hide in 15 so if you can’t
pass on both hands in 15s you can hide
you know if if you’re one-on-one tackl
isn’t great you can hide in 15s you can
get away with it in sevens you can’t and
it used to be a perfect way to go and
develop and I thought coaches used to
see it as a serious way of developing
players then obviously when the Olympic
stuff came in they did became two SE
Sports and suddenly you had these kind
of real athlete players which weren’t
you know which were a sport in itself I
think we need to go back a bit more to
it where coaches see the real value in
it we do get the players coming
backwards and forwards we get a bit more
exposure obviously this is a much harder
game to play now because the sport
science behind it I mean I remember the
fitness levels and requirements are
totally different than when I when when
I did it and I just think if coaches saw
it more seriously we should see young
players instead of going young players
you know sitting inms all day long I’d
put them into sevens I’d see England
coach which you should look at um this
is an opportunity to test people out can
I ask you three sort of Punchy bullet
point on to finish with Team GB or
England Scotland Wales how important is
it to have a strong presence in the UK
and Ireland for the success of a a
sevens entity given the commercial pull
the numbers the eyeballs Etc liking it
to a bit of hockey team GB has a real
value both commercially and what you’re
witnessing here this is GB playing by
the way you can hear the noise in the
backgr been Canada I have this a got
minutes ago we’re in a place where you
know the English representation used to
be strong GB equally is accepted here
it’s also format that went from 16 to 12
teams the GB model fitted with that as
well um there’s a lot of opinion on it
rightly so you’re taking three very
patriotic Nations that emerge in it but
fundamentally it can work and will work
we just all need to understand how this
commercial backing can fly through
second question is and you made a very
good point which is and I love it which
is sevens actually is a product that is
focusing on on the infan experience
first of all which is what makes this
place so extraordinary rather than the
eyeballs on television and and that is
probably one of his big challenges what
is the best potential television sevens
product CU I was thinking of the Prem
sevens as was which was four teams every
Friday night the winner went through to
a final and it was three hours it was a
great Friday night
out that seems to be a more sort of
digestible entity to get into as a
viewer on television than the three days
that you and I used to do in a sky
Studio he eating sandwiches until we
popped yeah is that just cuz your liver
couldn’t take it yeah I mean they were
brutal brutal grueling it was brutal
speaking about brutal the Prem sevens it
was a great format it was back-to-back
games we had a three minute break right
in between games here you would not be
able to do that so from a player welfare
point of view that has to be taken into
account as well but I understand the
question and I think that’s still a
pertinent question at the moment the
biggest broadcasting draw is to have the
the golden hour the show the big event
slightly stive because it can still be
immersive experience but then you hit
the big games the quarterfinals
semi-finals and finals here are electric
it’s amazing that’s probably the best
broadcasted bit but it’s still to be to
be solved I’d say last question and the
show sort of sorry the shirt answers it
almost in itself how excited are you
about where sevens will be and you put
the time frame on it 12 months 24 months
36 months where is this sport going to
get back to if what you’re talking about
comes through so I’m looking enough to
be to work on the Olympics in Paris
first seven days of the tournament
before the opening ceremony for me that
will be the most seismic moment for
seven sport because it’s going to show
this concept this product to The Wider
World 2.3 billion people watch the
Olympics this is great but it’s not the
same level it’s not the same stage three
weeks four weeks after that when my my
comedowns finally leveling off that’s
where I think I I’ll be really
reflective on what’s just happened
that’s probably going to be 12 months
maybe even two years in the building
process we’re saying three years as a
sevens entity to really grow this
product and concept we’re at end of year
one coming up to it with some massive
moments so for me it’s not a short-term
win it’s a longer term Focus but as you
can see there’s so much about this
wonderful sport that gets me excited so
much good man including the Shir keep
fighting the good fight it’s really good
to hear of some positivity we love
positivity on this show releas back
positivity it’s a rare thing y to be
positive is we really must all be
drinking from the right well done we
will do thank you very much Rob we’re
going to pop you out and as you we say
goodbye to the great Rob VI we’re going
to bring in I hope you won’t mind the
even greater DJ Forbes who is one of the
alltime greats of this Sport and is also
I mean we’ve gone from the incredible
shirt to the incredible sunglasses I
mean it is all absolute show here in
Hong Kong he’s still on the front still
on the front cover still one of the
biggest names that this sport has ever
had first things first how are you after
three four days in Hong Kong we’ve got
what’s left of James Haskell tin has
only had 12 hours to fill himself you
look well you look healthy and you’re
wearing a big old smile how you found it
not my first uh radio so I’ve been
walking in the shadow of of James lately
so um I think he’s doing it for all of
us so uh I can’t complain I mean I’m
always grateful to be brought back um I
think I’m around about maybe 15 or 16
years in in Hong Kong 11 as a player and
then the last sort of four or five years
as a Ambassador so yeah great
opportunity so I’m pretty sick to be
here for potentially the the last one
good you did almost 90 tournaments which
is a lot of work to get through
Commonwealth gold medalist obviously
captain of the all black sevens as well
and and we talk about one of the biggest
names in this sport but when you I mean
you touched on it already but what is it
about Hong Kong that when it goes into
the calendar you ring it in red and you
say it’s going to be a good week yeah
what I think for a lot of us when we
were playing I mean Hong Kong was like
the World Cup of the circuit um the aura
that the stadium creates I mean running
out of that tunnel you know it’s you
know second to none so um definitely was
one of those spots obviously I’m a
little bit bias I’m going to say
Wellington was you know next in line um
but to make a Hong Kong tournament um
and to even potentially win one um
definitely goes in the you know in the
memories quite high up the the picking
order what do you make of we’ve been
talking with Rob about the sort of
trajectory of the overall game what do
you make of the journey that sevens has
been on over the last let’s call it five
years oh I think it’s move Leaps and
Bounds not just in the men’s game um you
know across the board both men’s and
women’s um some of the skill and Talent
on show from the women’s games is sort
of you know trailblaze for a lot of
young you know boys and girls you know
wanted to play sevens but I think for
the men’s I mean these guys are units
now like you know 6 foot plus 100ks and
they can move um but then you see you
know 15 Superstars like Hoopa coming
back into the fold and um there’s still
an element of uh the contact and the
defense that you know us genuine
forwards still need you know our little
place here on this sevens field so you
know it’s a good mix now and it’s a
Olympic sport so definitely you know a
spectacle for everyone to watch we were
just saying beforehand do you do you
feel
that they still need to be connected
sevs and 15s you know you talk about
Hooper talk about dupon you talk about
you know the good we were just talking
about the good old days of cullin lomu
you know do you feel it has to have the
connection between both sports or could
it roll in itself as just a SE Elite
sevens and the elite 15s and they don’t
touch each other or yeah I think there
is a little bit of both I mean in some
countries you’ll be able to get away
with that and in other countries they’re
going to put all the eggs in one basket
and invest totally in an Olympic sport
um I think there’s still opportunity for
it as a pathway um some of the skills
you learn on a seven field you know if
you’re a forward or a 15 player in
general it’s going to set you up for you
know a pretty good place when you go
back to your 15 campaign um ultimately
you know the the fitness space you need
to run around on a seven field is you
know uh another level um but like I say
you know um I did I think maybe six
years of both Seven’s campaigns straight
into 15’s campaigns and besides I guess
the size difference and a little bit of
weight you sort of need to put on and
cut off um you know definitely a lot of
value playing both which is a really
interesting I want to get into that a
little bit more the physical demands of
flicking between the two for someone
like jupon what will he have had to have
physically done going from too and
France into the French sevens is it is
it just endless cardio is it have you
got to lose weight what what have you
got to do physically to be able to
compete in this probably not so much
losing weight and whatnot as long as you
can you know do what’s required in ter
of the cas yeah and so I know uh
depending on the type of program that
they run um it’ll be more just trying to
get used to the amount of Cs you do in a
working week um in 15’s a lot different
you sort of building and then tapering
for a Saturday whereas here um obviously
they’ll want to see that you know he get
Bank the Cs and ensure that he can go
the distance and then obviously you know
trying to make sure that come tournament
time especially like somebody like H
obviously is not here but a three-day
tournament um you can’t do 80 minutes
and turn off you got to get up and down
up and down so there’s a mental aspect
too and everything like
that okay I was going to say I always
remember we used to do this this England
fitness test this down and up test and
it was brutal as it was but if you want
to be a svage you had to do it twice you
have to do it back to back and it’s just
Carnage I mean the level like Dan Norton
we spoke to Dan Norton last night his
repeatability the ability to be able to
just Sprint like for him Sprint 100 and
go again and that was all he used to do
he was like repeat hundreds 15 20 which
is horrendous I’m tious thinking about
trying it you obviously came out of the
uh the Gordon titch in school of of kind
of s coaching
which which was at the time probably the
hardest program was it I mean you guys
used to win everything because what I
believed the Fitness and the demands on
you were like no other was was that
right I me was it as crazy as people say
it was yeah I’m probably paying the
price you know now with my knees and
everything
else it’s been tough paper around yeah
so um and I mean yeah there’s definitely
attributes that I have now because of
what he sort of put us through um in
terms of yeah Baseline Fitness and
things like that um the expectation was
another level and yeah we did we we beat
teams and we we hung in games because we
were simply fitted in a lot of teams and
I guess that was you know we’re touching
on that sort of transition as the game
morphed into a lot more skill and
strategy and everything else um there
was still an element of yet trying to be
the fittest team but also needing all
the skill sets to I guess just navigate
and you know evolve with what’s sort of
being played out there now that we see
is there anything that sticks in your
mind um in terms of session that you
remember being the worst out of all of
them cuz I I I don’t think people at
home necessary we need to be talk about
the fitness test all this kind of stuff
the level of running and the stuff you
have to do uh is mindblowing is there
anything that really sticks to your mind
about what you did oh I mean I stock in
the session back when he was running I
was we weren’t centralized so we’ll
drive in from our wherever so I the
Oakland boys will sit 3 hours in a van
cooped up in a van we’ll get out we’ll
sort of do the highs and welcomes and
you know get allocated your hotel room
and within about an hour and a half
we’ll go straight to the hall to do the
beep test and then T’s eyes sort of like
anything 14 plus was expected in a beep
test you do the beep test and you think
oh yes good you know I’ve done my bit
and you would have a recovery which was
lunch and then we’ll be back into a
phosphate test which is about the
repeated speed so that’s the 10 40 m
Sprints and I guess there those old days
when uh I guess some of us island boys
would think we’ll try and cheat the
system and and do one or two really fast
ones they didn’t Cruise they didn’t do a
couple at the end but you know tit
obviously uh came to us pretty quickly
around the stats saying I want to see
you guys as fast as you can from the
start and trying to
minime I always love I always used to
love that about fitness test the guy who
could would always be best at the last
one soly comes from nowhere back all the
way there silly oh are you fine now go
hard you should always be dropping off
can I I mean Gordon tit’s reputation
is extraordinary for those of us who
have followed the sport but but only
know him as as the legend as someone
who’s worked under him what are your
levels of respect affection sort of
gratitude for what he put in place in
your I I still sort of you know run
around in a in a different sense now and
and people sort of see me as you know so
very fit and and that’s purely because
of what I did you boxing now you still
doing the boxing oh that was a one off I
don’t want to cross now but I mean yeah
I guess people see me running around and
the only reason I’m still running around
is basically I’ve got this thing and
grain to me now that you know when
you’re sort of pushing yourself you’re
not really half assing or anything like
that you really want to go to the to the
red and stay in the red as long as you
can and then I only kind of get my
fulfillment when I’ve sort of gone to
that sort of barrier uh which is
probably detrimental cuz I’m you know
I’m 42 now and sort of feeling all the
effects but you know I can’t just go out
for a nice leisurely bike ride or a walk
around the mountain and stuff I I need
to be operating in the rear to get that
sort of satisfaction that i’ I’ve been
so used to and you thank him for that oh
yeah I know can I thank him yeah I’m
grateful you want you’re obviously
getting into coaching yourself as well
is he some when you coach yourself is he
someone that you would follow or you
know is anyone else really particularly
helps you shape the way you’re going to
coach sevens I think there’ll be certain
elements if I’m you know going to be
sort of coaching sevens um you know
definitely you know some of the meth
methods there’s still a place for just
old school Fitness you know and I think
there is that sort of a lot of the
generation has sort of gone to the other
side of the line and I think for me
personally I would still be expecting a
certain standard um but then there’s
obviously I was under tan um at one
stage Eric rush you know when I was
playing sevens even Joe Smith when I was
playing in development so I’ve had some
great coaches that I’ll hopefully used
to apply my own philosophies amazing can
I ask you a question around superstars
in the game and in some way I mean it’s
lovely to have you on the show in some
ways having you on the match program is
Testament to all that you’ve achieved
but as the sport looks to break into new
audiences Etc who is the biggest star in
sevens right
now and in some ways the pause might
answer the question yeah yeah I mean
it’s it’s it’s it’s crazy that amount of
talent you know hand on heart it’s
unbelievable you know and yeah I guess
if you sort of look back to when we were
running around there were a couple rock
stars that were you know immediately
identified and people sort of knew yeah
Mr sevens Mr sevens or and all those
kind of jazz is right now I think and
it’s not you know taking anything away
from what you see out there but just the
amount of athletes you know unbelievable
Talent running across do you think the
sport needs its rush and its cevi and
and its DJ forms does it need stars who
are totally identified viable within
sevens relative to an Anan dupon coming
over and making noise as the biggest
star in 15 moving across yeah I think
naturally there’s you know a lot of
seven stars that you know kids will look
up to and I think that does help grow
the game and it does give all these sort
of young boys and girls something to
sort of aspire to so that plays a
massive part but I think the game in the
south is probably you know what everyone
loves to see and they want to you know
get get amongst the action and and give
it a go just thinking back to Sev you
remember William Ryder for for PG like
take for for the England guys I still I
still whatever sport you need instantly
recognizable names and that comes down
the marketing of it or what is the
answer to how you build them but like I
would I obviously never I didn’t really
ever play sens I sort of missed that
boat H in you get hooked into those
players you know there was always the
stories around Carin ale how fast was he
then you go back to when I grew up you
know watching Lomo watching Colin you
need need those instantly recogniz
because they they like we always talk
about in 15s you need people who carry
the sport and at the moment we have the
same problems in 15s we’ve got
jupon well you’ve got quite a lot of
French guys but you don’t have any more
you don’t have Richie mcco you don’t
have D Dan Carter you
don’t but you need those names now how
do we do a better job of elevating those
because people pick up on that kids pick
up on that and that’s what we have to
sell can I ask you about the Olympics um
expectations for Paris who are the
favorites what are you most excited I
mean will sevens reach a new
level I think it’ll definitely reach a
new level um there may be some surprises
you know I guess when you look at the
series leading into a you know in
Olympics um the teams that are
consistently good are the ones that you
going to have a lot of expectation on
their shoulders so even a team like like
Ireland for example you know
consistently been good this whole season
um there’ll be a lot of expectation on
them uh France at home obviously the
kiwis haven’t done too well but in terms
of I guess you know where you want to be
you want to peek at the right time so
there’s teams that have done extremely
well this series so far um we haven’t
but you know today the last couple days
the team’s sort of looking on the up
again Australia um so yeah I think you
know it’s there will be some surprises
but it’s going to be an awesome
spectacle and you know hopefully I’m I’m
again I’m biased I’m hoping that the
boys peek at the right time yeah I think
everybody who is watching this and
perhaps doesn’t watch a lot of sevens
will find themselves watching the
Olympics and that is what sevens can do
and the way that it can hook you in the
last question I wanted to ask you about
we talk about defining images here and
England fans will remember winning I
think 2004 they won it here but a lot of
people remember your hacker in the rain
in 2011 is that blown up in a sort of 20
foot poster at home above the bed is
that one of the sort of great your great
photo no Photoshop required but is that
I mean was that victory for you I mean
you won it three times here but are
those the the days that you remember now
from a glorious career yeah I mean yeah
they that they went viral you know so
there was probably not so much you know
was us sort of doing our job and it was
always awesome to Huer you know that you
you know you’ve succeeded and youve you
know got the job done um but I guess
yeah for that kind of iconic moment
definitely holds a you know special
place of my heart I know there is some
rooms in some corporate areas that I’ve
gone into and there have there has been
murals on the wall and whatnot um but I
guess you single if you were single it’
definitely be a Tinder profile would it
last dance floor move yeah amazing but
definitely grateful for those memories
and I mean you know and those are just
one of of of many but um and I always
say that the whole story you know there
was a lot more that went into that and
there was a I guess a little bit of a
downer where I was stuck in a cubicle
and you know trying to do a drug test
that same evening when the team was back
celebrating you know there was gridlock
here because of black rain in Hong Kong
so I couldn’t get out of the stadium so
it took me a little while to celebrate
that Victory but got there in the end
good on you been really nice to have you
in thank you so much for coming CH enjoy
the rest of the weekend DJ you’re a top
man and we’ll look forward to catching
you up along the way good on you thank
you very much indeed so from DJ Forbes
one of the alltime stars of the sevens
game to David campesi one of
the one of the alltime stars of our game
in general full stop certainly one of
the most recognizable names from I don’t
think you were born when I played you no
I was I mean like I I cried in ‘ 91 I
did laugh in 89 but I did cry in
91 I played well in 91 so is that right
I know I know he’s a legend because it’s
the first thing he tells you when you
me I think we we’ve seen each other
three or four times I think 84 has come
up a couple of times on that as well
actually funny off cuz I was going to
come on to do you remember a video
called Bill’s best bits did you ever get
a copy of that from the great Bill
McLaren you remember bill so you you are
littered across that I think for the
barbar for Australia and I think in the
sevens as well actually um how are you
first of all how has Hong Kong treated
you yeah it’s uh it’s intered being back
because oh no because of Co and all that
so I think I played he 12 times which is
great and that I’ve been back and forth
all the time but uh look it’s just great
because you get to see some of the old
players that’s what sevens is about
though you know get the opportunity to
see people that they’ve known for years
and uh that’s that’s part of what the
sevens is all about one of the reasons
I’m really pleased that we’ve got you on
is we we’ve spent a bit of time talking
Rob Vickman from World rugby and DJ
about where sevens is now but one of the
things I’d love to get into with you is
how good was it when you played here and
it was obviously an amateur sport Etc
you did 12 tournaments but we’re talking
about llu and Cullen and serevi and some
of the absolute alltime greats of sevens
that you’d have gone up against tell us
a little about your experiences here as
a play well this I I presented the
jerseys to this rain team on uh
Wednesday night and I got up and I said
guys my first tour was 83 we arrived on
a Wednesday night the guys went out for
a few beers right Thursday morning we
trained for an hour had lunch went
shopping Friday train for an hour go
shop in everyone come and got the suits
and all that made here played Saturday
Sunday win Monday shopping go home that
was it it was the only tournament we
ever played was Sev here and the the
reason it was so good because they’re
all test players yeah you had Blanco
Jean Baptist lefon you had Jay Jeff
who’s going to be the president of world
rugby Jonathan Davies and everyone here
knew who they were but when we started
we used to sit with the supporters in
the grand standand after the game with
mud and everything we sat down and the
supporters are with us you know now it’s
more if you watch it’s more about
defense instead of flare attack guys
trying different things like cevi I mean
not playing cevi like you had no idea
what he was going to do he had no idea
either but that’s what the people wanted
we are we obious have the Lions playing
here on their way to Australia in 2013
the barbar which was I mean you play I
unfortunately remember that yeah how was
that 76 nil or whatever we got beat yeah
yeah that was a tough afternoon at the
office this pit g a tough week I’ll be
honest with you what are your
expectations for next year and the Lions
given where Australia are right now uh
look I think we’ll do pretty well
because we’ve got the same players who
have been there for a couple of years
now so we’ve we don’t have to go and
look for players
but we just got to give the players the
skills to play we’ve got really good
individual skills but sometimes I forget
you don’t beat the whole team you beat
one player that’s your job pass the ball
and off you go in a I’ve been canceled
in Australia have you I can’t coach I
don’t theuk
do all during the World Cup last year I
did all my Planet rugby podcast all in
Europe in South Africa and New Zealand
nothing in Australia the only time they
ring me when Australia loses really cuz
I know I’m going to give them a headline
yeah but I can’t do I can’t coach can’t
do anything why because I tell them what
the truth is right and the problem in
Australia now rugby supporters we’ve got
no say this year’s 40 Years of the rugby
Grand Slam yeah it’s the last time we
won
1984 no one knows no one knows what’s
happening yeah which is really sad so
we’ve lost our culture and our history
right we’ve gone through coaches we’ve
had Eddie now we’ve got another New
Zealander
and I said what about having Australian
coaches understand strali St so who
would you have g i me Joe Smith’s a hell
of a coach I mean there’s obviously but
there’s another New Zealand we’re not
new zealands no sure we’re Australians
New Zealand will never get a Australian
coach no no so who would you have picked
well I actually believe it or not I said
to Phil war I said mate give me the
backline for 12 months right bring in
lorri Fisher bring in a couple of other
and let’s play a state switches in good
steps over
theer I tell you at least we’ be able to
counter attack and attack the game is
about defense they spent all their time
on defense and if you watched last
year’s World Cup our fullback kway is a
good play we got really good individuals
very good but the problem is we haven’t
got centers to give the ball to the
Wingers yeah and when they get it they
want to be 10 six
Winger so it’s about trying to sens was
like the hardest place on the planet
some people could do it some people
could but the problem is in Australia we
got four football coaches yeah rugby
league’s dominated [ __ ] R’s got all the
money and when when not winning if you
don’t win in Australia you’re in big
trouble and we won when we played we
entertained yep and that’s why every
that’s why rugby became so so passionate
because we will win in we style now it’s
we’ve lost it’s about defense we don’t
want defense you need the flare you need
the guy to say mate go out there and
have a go yeah it’s not there anymore
right I feel that like Australia now
have lost their Identity or what what
they are they’re trying to find remember
they’ve always been if I go through the
history of me watching Australia playing
against Australia they were always so
studious and you for so long the
Institute of sport was the the golden
Beacon and now it’s like you expect them
to be able to put a plan together and
execute even like 2015 Vernon Foley you
know how they scored those tries where
they just have Runners inside outside
him and he just played where at the
moment you go go into the World Cup in
France last year they just didn’t have
that they were trying to be something
else whether Eddie was trying to make
them again know that they’re in a
difficult situation but instead of going
embracing the young players that you had
and go play the way that suits them
things that we’ve talked about both of
us for the last sort of couple years
we’ve had all these great youngsters and
until the last three games of Six
Nations we’re going we’re not even
playing any rugby yeah and then but then
actually if you give them a bit of
freedom and the respon responsibility to
go and hold themselves accountable you
get better results out the back of it
it’s interesting and I’d love to ask you
this so we put out onto our social media
any of our fans can send in a question
unsurprisingly the one came to you but
it is related to Hong Kong so this came
in from Sammy boy and is our Continental
Tires question of the week uh and it was
for Campo the best player that you
played against in sevens and why uh well
let me see well I we had Jean Baptist
Leon play who was one of my favorite
boners really crazy
guy I love the French Blanco um Jonathan
Davis played all those grades you know
because we played against Tesla against
them all the time yeah but I must say um
serevi would be very
close because just watching play he’ll
stand there with the
ball and you’ll score the other end
that’s what made people come to watch
yeah you know even the Commonwealth
Games obviously Christian J started here
in 94 you know Christian gets a ball
under the post scores the other
end that’s that’s what you want you know
we asked the question um to DJ about how
you build Global Superstars what is your
answer to that in a professional context
just be different what just be different
be different try different things if it
works it works if it doesn’t it doesn’t
yeah you know you talk would you have
relished playing in the professional era
now I mean 98 right you know and we were
we were you4 though at that time8 yeah
was a very old so so the so the social
media era you’d have had a hell of a
show real on Tik Tok I mean you would
have been right up yeah Tik Tok I’m not
interested because for sure but but my
my my point is 89 if a player was to do
that now it would be very I mean that
would be an uncomfortable 6 12 months
with the social media judgment and so
what is your what is your
advice Kan in the World Cup final yeah
but if you look at 89 for example okay
three test matches I touch the ball
three times right if I get the ball 20
times and but take make two mistakes no
one cares yeah I get the ball three
times and take more mistakes the world
knows yeah so context can can you just
explain what happened for those who
might so what happened 89 we we the
first test we won the second test all in
Brawl the Lions realize you have to
start punching and be us third test Rob
Andrew gets the ball has a drop goal he
misses I’m under the I get the ball
behind my tri line because I wasn’t
confident there was only yay Evans there
was nobody
so I started to run stopped Greg Martin
called I passed and yane Dives on the
ball scores a try anyway so there was
other incidents still a long way to
go the British lines won so I was
walking off and some in the crowds are
he lost another game for Australia so I
walked in the dressing room sit down no
one not one player came near me for 10
minutes anyway so Nick far Jones and
then Bob DWI came over and so I said you
know don’t worry about it walked off to
the reception with Y I said I’m going
home so I was sponsored by BMW back then
my number plate was n11 drove home
pulled over by the police for
speeding go home all of a sudden the
phone rings St Helen rugby league
offered me more money to play league and
I said didn’t you guys watch the game
tonight anyway so that was the night the
next day we still had a game to go which
is the British Lions and the Anzac yeah
so the next day I ringed Bob DWI the
coach I said Bo Bob andain I’m not in a
good mood don’t pick me next week okay
pick you I put the phone down then I
realized I’ve just told the national
coach what to do so I I said mate if you
want me pick me I did exactly the same
pass the week after and it worked but if
it wasn’t for that mistake I wouldn’t
have played World in 91 yeah because
can’t go through like everything good
you got to go ups and downs then you
learn and that’s learning that’s that’s
part of life life lessons from David
camp and I’m in brilliant absolutely
you’re you’re not wrong do you know the
other thing I’ve completely forgotten to
ask you about was I’m going to call it
English sevens rugby greatest moment
which was winning at marfield in3 World
Cup yeah 93 you were a part that was
Andy harman’s greatman who just left me
in the dust name wow it was
quick he he I got it 22 he is 22 and
made he just gone he watched me thank
you so much nobody to see you camp glad
good on you thanks thanks mate thanks
and I’m sure we’ll catch up further down
the track as well just next year mate
give me a call when you get to the go
Coast we’ll have a coffee yeah yeah next
year on
The that we’ll see you for a coffee
thanks apprciate it Camp thank you very
much we will let you swap out and we
will bring in a very special guest our
final guest of our podcast here in Hong
Kong he’s going to surprise one or two I
think we going CH brother how are you
good how’s maau David James how are you
maau was very brief was it yeah in an
hour when we I look like I didn’t have
much sleep yes you look right you look
right 9:00 fair is really good did you
go to Macau last night yeah yeah wow
yeah because mcal mcal because we saw
you yesterday was my father was DJing
last night in proper DJ yeah he DJs as
well actually do you yeah and he’s an
amazing painter are you yeah very good
painter very good painter man of many
many times he’s going to paint me like
one of his French
ladies and I and I gave up the cello to
play
rugby I say that again did you really
yeah
wow did you play rugby at
school right what position my dad used
to play for wasps my granddad used to
play for wasps how amazing I did not
know that so you’re obviously you’re
wearing the resplendant red you are over
here in what capacity so carlsburg
sponsor they’re the bear sponsor for the
rugby sevens got um and they’ve been a
sponsor of liol for 32 years now since
the beginning of the Premier League
right um this is the first time I’ve
come to the sevens yeah didn’t realize
what Carnage it can be yeah so give us a
description of of what you have made of
the last two three days interestingly
and just looking back now that it’s
quite empty isn’t it the South stand um
the first day was a little bit Fuller
and got Fuller throughout the day but
yesterday was ridiculous yeah did you
end up going in there I think you no I’m
going in today really good luck I’m not
I’m not allowed to say this on the
podcast but Max the uh the Hong Kong
Captain apparently the players aren’t
allowed in the southand but he’s going
in there after the game and I’m going
with him we went in yesterday it was
they’re going to pull
you
yeah concerned don’t worry about the
smell you’re going to get torn Lim Li in
there sleep nothing left you I just go
sit next to someone who’s asleep what do
you make of this I mean you’ve played in
some cauldrons I mean anfield is one of
the greatest stadiums in the on the
planet I played here before so um 17 17
years ago Portsmouth played in the Asia
trophy which was against Fulham and
Liverpool was that me har was that on
Harry who was that we won you won it the
the place was packed with Liverpool fans
and I think there’s about 300 portsman
fans who probably
uh no no well we won so we like we were
happy so but the the sevens event as I
say yesterday was it’s just mental and
there there’s a bit where us being like
athletes or former athletes you’re on
the on the pitch now running and it’s
hard graph down there as well and you’re
trying trying your best to win knowing
that the people are watching you
probably don’t even know you’ve just
done what you did yeah yeah and we
forgotten about what they saw today
because they’ll be hung over tomorrow
yeah so it’s that like um I don’t know
that weird the weird mixture I I mean I
was interesting with you because
obviously one of the things we talk
about as rugby players is the um the
kind of experience you have a football
match is the intensity the the
atmosphere the tribalism is mad we don’t
really have that in rugby but this that
sort of South stand is the closest uh we
to get to did you feel that kind of vibe
or or you know cuz what here yeah you
yeah yeah yeah yeah I mean the
interesting one I mean I mentioned Max
from Hong Kong uh the first day Hong
Kong played
China Hong Kong Hong Kong beat China
twice and you know there was there’s a
lot of cheering and I know without going
too deep into the politics about what’s
going to happen next time and where the
Hong Kong are involved and all that
stuff but when your home home team are
getting supported by your home support
it makes the whole atmosphere um and it
it was superb yesterday as to say
and yeah southst B get busy imagine B
playing a go being a goalie in front of
South stand you be a goalie anyway you
must get better you must hear everything
yeah you must yeah it must been how did
you deal with that I’ve always want to
know that as a player going to a rival
thing just hearing them shout because in
rugby someone might go sit down or
you’re an idiot so my my last rugby
experience um was Saron versus Leicester
tigers at Wembley
where they clapped each other’s team
scoring you know the Saron fans next to
Lester leester fans drinking beer drunk
enjoying themselves clapping the
opposition I was like what is going on
um my worst experience in football has
to be Crawley town sorry who crawly Town
yeah two 2010 2011 after the World Cup 2
and half th000 fans one Geer for 90
minutes telling me how [ __ ] I was and
how I let my country down was like
really 90 minutes how’ you deal with how
did you deal with that I tried to ignore
him but I’m talking about it now it
really his eyes CU obviously we get you
get that every week on the podcast do
yourself down your parents we hate you
Dad stop doing that when we walk past we
get you know people do shout like get
into you do do you just rug it off do
you just
IGN you know what it’s like and and
weirdly like you’re being a I know 60
70,000 whatever it is the biggest
stadium you don’t even know there’s a
crowd there you just play the game the
final whistle goes it’s like wow I’ve
just played 90 minutes other times I say
2 and a half thousand and you can hear
every voice and it’s just like mate do
me a favor go go to the toilet or do
something yeah do you still follow the
game now I mean do you keep a keen
interest you a casual fan how much rugby
do you want or rugby uh not so much
because I I moved to exitor okay and I
befriended the the exitor Chiefs guys
yeah one of the best nights out ever can
I tell the story yeah yeah so so we used
to go down this Pub and uh we used to
call it Pizza wedge cuz the table’s
always wobbly we always had pizza and
you had to stick a bit of pizza
underneath the table to keep it level
anyway the one night they’ve gone fresh
as night in exit Town Cent I’m thinking
what like big geers fresh as uni night
and I’m thinking this is going to be
Carnage and we went in there we sat we
sat on the table just got absolutely
hammered didn’t even notice anyone else
and I thought I need to go out with
these guys more it was just like a
proper Night Out proper BLS having
proper drink um so I followed the Chiefs
wood chop wood chop whatever it was tomk
chop Tom something like that yeah Tom
chop Tom chop Tom Hulk chop and when you
because you obviously played a little
bit who were the guys that you would
have watched growing up did you watch
any rugby when in rugby yeah um L really
yeah yeah because he was funny of course
great day Johnny Jonathan so Johnny
Wilkinson uh interestingly my goalie
coach you Dave or kick Dave he was he
was a kicking coach for me was he did
you ever compare notes so I mean
obviously beex did that thing with
Johnny I don’t speaking to Johnny you
know Dave came in and it was like I
don’t need a kicking coach and then like
three hours later I was like wow this
guy is just completely
transformed super really yeah um very
methodical though isn’t he it’s all
about yeah and then he went in the golf
yeah I met him in a in a in a gym in
Portsmouth and he went well golf’s like
uh like football opposite upside down
about don’t get C shaped J shaped
never forget never forget the World Cup
Johnny couldn’t hit a bar door with a
bazooka everyone everyone was like
where’s where’s Dave Oren on the golf
course every day he came back an
unbelievable tan Johnny couldn’t kick
anything we got done for ball tamping
every day like where’s everyone lost
that it was just our fa it was best is
Dave um Dave he’s am amazing coach but
he obviously didn’t learn people’s names
because he just couldn’t care so it we
just keep be like call the fitness guy
oh Fitness guy or tackle bag guy or
ballman it’s like Dave for [ __ ] sake
you know exactly who they are so we just
start calling him kicking guy a kicking
guy when he come in please he’s a lum
when I see him I’m going to call him
kicking guy kicking guy um what’s in
store for the rest of the day are you
out and about and shaking hands and
enjoying what the Carnage that continues
given I’ve had two hours sleep um yeah
I’m just waiting for it to warm up a
little bit CU it’s not warm enough at
the moment yeah true uh we have a
kicking challenge at
halim soon right I I will
I will probably win um who are you up
against couple of Hong Kong guys Okay so
we’ve got kicking challenge we’re going
to be here for all the games and at some
point I will probably be drunk have you
tried it off the have you tried to what
kicking ball off the team
before like no no no you you stick your
foot in and make a little Mound old
school old school get the sand out get a
sand cast you seen that bucket guy would
make unbelievable Neil Jenkins for for
Wales unbelievable K lit little sign
Castle manufacturer he’s missed that
whole area he come back to pull
forward big the thing is there’s no mud
in these pitches
anymore that get a of Des whatever is
weave what you get as we wrap up this
show it’s just a sense of what the Hong
Kong sevens is all about it’s a great
time with great people having an
enormous amount of fun thank you so much
for ding I’m so glad you’ve dressed up
for the occasion as well well one of us
has got to make an effort there’s barely
a soul left in this man and we’ve got
AIT we’ve got we’ve got a bit of
repairing to do for your performance
last night I’m surprised one of you two
or both of you aren dressed as Hulk
Hogan rug yesterday was particular was
The Bushwackers yeah I’m on brand so
know because apparently I got to look
like this you mean otherwise I would to
come some sort of R traffic cone or
something like that or comedy donut or
something you’re our fourth guest three
of us we’ve had seven people talking
about the state of sevens there is so
much to look forward to as this form of
the sport moves forwards but I think
from the three of us and for everyone
who’s been here in Hong Kong it is one
of the greatest weekends in the sporting
Canada if you haven’t been make sure you
do thank you to everyone for looking
after us over a remarkable 4 days stop
it and behave we are the good the bad in
the rugby with Continental Tires what is
left of us is going onto Australia we’ll
see you very soon thanks so much for
tuning in enjoy your week bye for now