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Mark Calcavecchia joins us to discuss the 2024 golf season and more. Check it out!
this is Ann and it’s a dead shank Wow
way right off
the you got to be kidding
[Music]
me very tough pitch shot right here you
got to hit it into the hill one hop up
and bite and it’s in kind of like
that
well I would like to welcome a 13-time
PGA Tour winner uh Open Championship uh
winner as well at TR 1989 Ridder cups
president’s cups uh this player has seen
it all Mr Mark Kel again on the sub7
podcast thanks Kel for uh coming on and
doing our annual uh start of the golf
season
conversation absolutely Jason uh anytime
I always enjoy talking to you well
health updates uh
unfortunately um you know both knees are
done uh how how are you feeling like
that you had a hell of a run there for a
while between some injuries and I mean
some stuff that really take some time to
recover from at the level you’re playing
at or want to play at I should say yeah
the last uh last few years been pretty
tough with the uh the spinal fusion in
uh 2021 and then last year had both
knees replaced but uh they’re both
feeling pretty good uh
little you know nagging things that us
old guys have you know I’ll be 64 in a
few months and uh you know I think I got
gout in my big toe that kind of hurts on
occasion every now and then my thumb
hurts like hell you know who knows but
all in all though pretty good I’ve been
playing pretty decent at home and
uh uh only played one tournament so far
this year Naples and that was a two
rounder we got rained out and I I hit it
fine but uh but made no putts I just
couldn’t read the green so it was
encouraging and uh looking forward to
getting out the Tucson next week can you
still put with the injuries and stuff
and like I I’m I’m guessing if you take
any guy who played the tour as long as
you did who’s 60 plus it just adds up
right I mean it’s the body is not meant
to swing a golf club that hard for that
long right uh can you still get enough
work in practice-wise where you’re now
that you’re healthier like does it feel
like that part of your game is coming
around cuz when you’re injured you can’t
do it you can’t prep the way you need to
prep is that does it feel like it’s
getting there a little bit for you being
a to put that time in you know as far as
actually practice practice not really um
I can uh you know I can spend 45 minutes
to an hour at the chipping green or you
know practice bunker after about 20
minutes of putting uh my back hurts uh
but I can play you know I I I’ve been
playing a decent amount in the last uh
well the last few months really at home
uh in in Florida and uh you know and
playing it’s fine you know hopping in a
cart and Flight playing and my whole
career I’ve kind of always liked to play
practice anyway so uh that works out
good for me but uh as far as spending
time on the Range I I I honestly can’t
probably hit more than about 50 balls at
a time uh anymore before I’m just wiped
out but but you didn’t like you said in
your Prime you didn’t do that much
anyway if your game was on you didn’t
mess with it too much right like if it
was working you wouldn’t s there for 3
hours pounding seven irons for no reason
well right uh I mean I did when I was
younger when I first started working
with with cus in the 80s and and Butch
Armon in the
90s uh you know you you you’d hit so
many balls where your your hands you
know were just blistered up you know
terribly uh but uh you know not anymore
and you’re right though I I kind of
always did like to play practice like
even when I went out by myself back in
the early days at bare Lake or when I
went down to Eagle Trace in the middle
80s uh you know i’ I’d rather play 18
holes two balls a hole you know which is
like playing 36 holes which is a lot of
golf uh take a break and then uh you
know maybe hit 30 or 40 balls in the
range some bunker shots and chips and
call it a day and I’d be done by noon so
that was that was kind of the way I I
always like to do it my whole
career so with the limited time what are
you sort of focusing on you know you
can’t like I said you can’t beat a th000
balls a anymore like what’s sort of is
it short game is it you know with that
limited practice what’s the what are you
really trying to focus in on yeah short
game more than anything else uh you know
because I can only fly at about 245
yards maybe 250 if I’ve got a
slight help of win so you know my
distance isn’t great uh but if I can get
some roll these new uh Callaway Drivers
uh they don’t have a whole lot of spent
on them so if I can get dry conditions
I’ll be okay and get it out there but
yeah the main thing is short game uh and
it’s you know in Naples it was streaky I
hit some amazing chips and and and a
couple of really good bunker shots and
then the next bunker shot I just dead
chunk so it was a kind of a mixture or
like a chip uh the second round on
Saturday I was right in front of the
17th green with the easiest tap ever
seen and I chipped it about 4 feet uh
granted that was in the green a little
bit but still uh stuff like that I’ve
got to uh uh you know I’ve got to get
better at uh and just make some putts um
I I really didn’t uh really didn’t make
much putt wise in the two rounds we
played in April so but like I said it’s
only been two rounds for the year so far
lot long way to go yeah is there
something to be said about let me
interrupt you there but like getting in
a tournament flow where if you do play
three weeks in a row or three out of
four does that then kind of come back to
you a little bit of that okay this isn’t
golf at the club with the guys on
Saturday this is real golf it’s
professional golf but then that
everything starts to tighten up Focus
short game once you get a little bit of
that rhythm of professional golf backs
it’s been a while for you to really kind
of get in that Groove at you know
imagine from the like I said from the
injuries and the time off yeah you’re
right 100% uh I’m I’m I’m kind of
actually looking forward to that too um
because that’s what I haven’t done in
the last two years I’ve only played uh
eight tournaments I think in two years
so um it’ll be nice to play three out of
four weeks and then or three weeks in a
row in uh in May or whatever four weeks
in a row and you know get something
going get a little bit of uh uh you know
confidence rolling and just you know it
just kind of runs into each other you
know when you hit chips every day and
and bucker shots and and shots and and
whatnot you can kind of get a little uh
confidence and a little bit of an idea
of what of what you’re doing out there
for sure
any changes to the Champions store with
everything going on in golf and you know
trying to make it a little bit more
interactive if you take what Liv’s doing
and the tour is making some change and
stuff is there anything on the champions
tour that you guys are seeing or talking
about or hearing as everything is kind
of moving fast forward you know it’s
kind of who knows which direction it’s
all going but are you guys working on
anything that you think is kind of
interesting or cool for the fans that
you know follow you guys on the
champions tour of the Season or other
changes you’d maybe like to see well
I’ve kind of been trying to find out you
know this this new uh Equity program
thing uh you know I mean I think there’s
quite a few of us trying to figure out
if we’re going to find a check in the
mailbox one day you
know but we’ll we’ll see you know other
than that uh our our tour is pretty uh
pretty secure you know we it’s not a
whole lot changes in terms of uh what’s
going on out there uh you know most of
our tournaments are in the same places
the same time of year and and which is
fine you know it’s sometimes the rules
change uh unbeknownst to me you know
they like to do that to you oh here’s a
new rule uh with eligibility or this or
that uh but other than that it’s h it’s
pretty much the same uh the same deal
which for people who you know I love
going out to Champions Tour events and
in the sense that you can’t get closer
to the players you can watch how you
guys play right it is a little I’d say
it’s more intimate setting it’s fun like
you can see you John Daly um you know
David Deval pick whoever it is like how
do you guys go about picking apart the
golf course and take you course
management all of it you can really see
it up close I think that’s a part A lot
of people can learn from you know go
follow you for nine holes and see how
you go about your business that’s the
cool part about the champions tour I
think that you can see some great
players and some great golf but you can
see it up close absolutely 100% correct
uh and it’s been like that since since
day one since I got out there 13 years
ago um you know obviously our crowds
aren’t as big uh you know some places we
get we get really big crowds but you can
get closer you can you can ask us
questions you know I I think sometimes
you get out there in the PG tour and and
and you know some of the fans are afraid
to get anywhere near anybody uh and and
and you know for the fear of getting
yelled at that that won’t to her you
know I mean I’ve answered hundreds and
hundreds of questions just right on the
te you know like before I teed off or
right I like hey Mark can I ask you a
question I said sure what’s up you know
it’s uh that’s kind of the way it is out
there with us and and again it it’s it’s
not the craziness of the PJ tour and
we’re glad it’s not you know we don’t
want it that way but but yet yet you
know when the fans come out to watch us
they uh they recognize almost all of our
names and even though we’re getting up
there in age uh you know there’s still a
lot of lot of great golf being played in
the champions tour and you can uh you
can learn a lot and find out a lot by
going out to watch H watch our
tournaments totally agree yeah it’s um
and I think you can take a little bit
away from it too of you know not all the
golf balls are carrying 305 yards and
it’s a little bit more realistic for
somebody like me if I watch you play how
you do it be right because you know the
guys neur on the regular tour it’s I
would call it it’s the that game is
farther away from a good amateur low
handicap golfer as it’s ever been let
alone the 15 handicap right it’s uh it’s
it’s a different it’s a different Beast
so go watch an lpj a Tour event or you
know anything like that where it’s more
like you know distance I hit a golf ball
it’s like oh okay I see how they’re
doing this yeah and you can gain a lot
from from watching the best in the world
do it I think it’s a cool idea of of
watching a pro and see what you can gain
out of it exactly uh and yeah when you
do go out the tour events and uh I I
play a decent amount of home with Eric
Cole and Nick Hardy and Brandon Matthews
and some of these other guys that just
uh you know I mean Eric’s average
distance-wise but he only weighs about
130 pounds but you know those other guys
just absolutely blister it and I never
get tired of watching it I’m like you
know holy moly you know how far did you
just hit that one but when you go out to
watch us play or even the ladies you
know people I’m sure they say well I I
think I could probably hit it that far
or that’s kind of that looks like my
drive just kind of a low Ganky fade out
there you know so uh yeah I think it’s
much more relatable to the uh average
person for sure uh what the tour guys do
is it is incredible but uh it’s not uh
it’s not not the way most of us play
golf that’s for sure well you guys still
hit way farther than the average guy
playing golf out there don’t don’t call
a 288 yard rolled out fade you know it’s
not dog you’re still moving it
pretty good Kell but the the way you
guys don’t play bomb and gouge and try
to hit as far as you can to the that’s
the part where I think it differs right
think if you get some guys watching TV
and going well you know I have a they
have 183 M hour ball speed they’re that
strong so I’m just going to hit as far
as I can and gouge like that won’t work
for a good amateur player you have to
play like you guys do well we don’t have
an extra we don’t have that extra gear
um you know I mean we pretty much swing
at you way we swing at it you know you
can’t just all of a sudden walk up there
and say okay I’m gonna throw an extra
five M hour Club head speed into this
drive you know I don’t have that uh and
and the tour guys do uh they do have
that extra gear uh I mean their normal
gear is is massively long but they they
do have an extra gear but we’re just
you know we we hit it the way we hit it
and uh that’s about it uh there’s really
I mean I
think you mentioned Duval earlier I
played with him last year in a
tournament and all of a sudden when he
decided he wanted to hit one there there
was a difference there uh but now I
think he’s more worried about trying to
keep it on the course uh because he hit
far enough the way it is uh but yeah
most of us uh there’s no extra gear at
our age and Fairways and green still
give you plenty of chances that’s just
kind of what I always watch you know
from from playing quite a bit with ta3
he still hits it pretty good but he
gives himself a lot of chances right
smart solid Golf and and that’s what you
guys do well I think that’s what we can
take away from it so no it’s it’s fun to
watch people should go out and watch
Champions Tour golf because the level of
play how good it is I think it it it I
always say this like it will you go
shoot go play the te’s you guys play
from 6800 yards and go shoot 1,500 power
in three rounds and come back to me and
let me know how that goes for you how
good the play is yeah it’s exactly it’s
it’s still great golf um speaking of
great golfers I this story I love your
feedback on this one Anthony Kim coming
back from I mean not even the Oblivion
like from the poker room I guess right
uh T take on that and then from being
away a little bit like how H how do you
then go from nowhere for 12 years to
like you know trying to beat DJ like how
how
my God like how do you transition back
into Pro level golf let’s just assume he
still got talent but how’s how do you
see that playing
out oh it’s G to be uh gonna be
interesting I’ve only seen Anthony one
time since he left uh which was about
the same time I I started playing the
champions tour anyway and uh it was at
the Madison Club in pal Springs and he
was having breakfast and he had his
hoodie on and he never took it off he
had it like cinched up like it it was
20° in the dining room I just thought it
was the weirdest thing ever uh but
anyway what’s what’s weird about the
last 12 years with him being gone is you
haven’t even really heard of him playing
any just just like at home or
recreational or stories like oh yeah I
played with Anthony kin today and he
shot
62 you haven’t heard anything I I don’t
know what he’s been doing uh yeah
whether he’s been playing poker at the
bagio or or what he’s been doing
so uh you know it’ll be interesting uh
it’s a good story he was obviously a
great player and uh you know just kind
of a different character that’s for sure
but you know we’ll see uh I think he’ll
play okay probably not great most of the
year uh I don’t think he’s anywhere good
enough to deal with Rah and DJ and
Bryson and and those guys so uh but
we’ll see be fun to watch well haven’t
said that I don’t I don’t watch live I
didn’t mean it that way but uh I will
pay attention to what he shoots that’s
about it it’s a yeah it’s an interesting
human story right because very few guys
like like we talking about Deval again
like you know when he stepped away and
went in the broadcast booth and then he
turns 50 and goes back in it it’s not
like all of a sudden he just turned it
back on and won three times and I think
like DeMarco’s done the same thing right
like really good players on the PJ tour
you take that five six seven years off
and it why do you think that is so hard
to because they have talent and they
have experience and they’ve proven
themselves why is it so hard to then
become elite elite again yeah isn’t that
amazing uh the way that with with you
know DeMarco had you know probably six
or seven years from when he last played
good on tour until he turned 50 and i’
heard he was in great shape and he’s
working out and then he just didn’t play
well at all for you know he’s had some
good good tournaments and and a few
chances to win for sure but uh you know
he hasn’t won yet um Justin Leonard’s
played well but he hasn’t won yet you
know he’s spent quite a bit of time in
the booth Nota beay is playing now but
uh you know when he started playing last
year you know it was terrible uh Deval
same thing uh it’s just it’s just uh I
don’t know I think you just get out of
the uh competitive playing mode it takes
a little bit to figure it back out it’s
almost like
relearning you know how to play uh and I
get it because I’m kind of the same way
right now even though I’ve only been out
because of injuries but I still have
to I told Brenda this I still have to
figure out how to bring my to Quest the
country club game you know in Jupiter
Florida back out to the tour because I I
play well at home uh and I didn’t play
great in Naples so uh that’s kind of the
whole the whole mystery and the same
goes with those guys
because it’s not nerves or I mean right
I mean you’ve with the yeah it’s like
why does it not you know just like you
you guys been out there for so long can
just flip the switch and I don’t think
Anthony Kim’s going to be able to do it
either like I don’t it’s it’s it’s such
an interesting thing to look at of like
why does the golf with the boys at home
at Desta you’re shooting 66 not just go
to Naples and shoot the same thing like
like what what is that little tiny
nuance and it’s I’ve talked to a bunch
of players about they call you know it’s
like you have to work yourself into I
know it sounds kind of crazy because you
can still play competitive golf at home
but like tournament professional golf
like I mentioned earlier it’s like I
always find it fascinating why why is
that a
thing right it’s a mystery uh and the
three rounds that I shot before I left
for Naples I shot 66 68 68 on some
pretty good golf courses and then I open
up with the 76 and I looked at Brandon
and I
said how how can I lose eight to 10
shots around uh driving over to Naples
uh you know it’s same guy playing golf
uh it’s it’s uh you know it’s it’s in
the it’s in the brain for sure but it’s
also just one of those things you gotta
just get over the hump again you know
I’ve always said Pro Golf is is such a
fine line uh there’s so many great
players that can’t quite get over the
hump and it’s almost like the guys that
I mentioned before you know that that
took time off or been on the boo you
know they got to figure out how to get
over the hump again and I’ll be 64 in a
few months and uh you know will I get
over the hump again uh who knows uh you
know I’ll shoot some good rounds but you
know can I win again uh I’m not burnhard
Langer I know that so we’ll see uh but
I’m gonna keep
trying going to ask you too on like the
what what’s going on with golf and
everything from like a thousand feet in
the year because this idea of like a
world tour you know was around the 90s
when when when you were on the PGA tour
and just from the outside looking in
like assum do you think there’s going to
be a merger I know it’s just a guess I
know you don’t have any inside
information but how let me ask if in a
perfect world how do you see this
potentially coming together and you
think it’d be an interesting product if
everyone can come to an agreement
because it sounds like between what
Rory’s saying and some of the other
players there’s a little bit more of a
pathway to potentially and I I mean tell
me if I’m wrong but some version of a
world tour right where everything feeds
up to these 12 events or whatever events
the are and it travels the world and
those top 80 players or whatever it is
that’s the elite of the elite and
everyone’s going to want to get there
from the money standpoint Prestige do
you do you see it can you see a little
bit more of a pathway of this working
out and how would you potentially see it
uh perspective I do a lot more now than
I did last year the year before when all
this kind of came about uh you know kind
of seemed like a few years ago when guys
left you know like that was it they were
never going to play the PJ tour again
boom goodbye you’re gone uh but now as
time’s gone on and and ROM’s gone and
who knows what Rory’s going to do and uh
it just seems to me that these guys must
have some sort of inside info that that
uh we’re all going to be back together
playing uh uh together at some point
anyway so why not take you know all this
money and forget about the PJ tour for
whatever it is two years three years
however long it takes you know they’re
all still young enough uh and I hope so
for this for the sake of golf uh you
know I’ve said it many times I’m not a
Liv golf fan but uh I don’t blame any of
these guys one bit for for taking all
that money and the way it looks
hopefully uh they can fill their pockets
up uh very nicely and then in a few
years it’ll all kind of come together
and merch together and be one uh one big
happy tour again uh would would
would make the most sense to me uh but
yeah it’s it’s been a it’s been a
strange uh couple years with with that
tour for sure I I think it could be
interesting like you know to bring a big
event to Australia I mean and and and go
to Hong Kong and I think the relegation
of like guys on that borderline of going
up or down could be really you know
there’s a story to tell in that I think
that’d be very the end of the year of
like oh man is he is he going to get up
to that next level is this guy going
down with you know nine holes to go like
that could be exciting almost like a you
know an informal tour School pressure on
that final
round uh for the elite players a lot of
travel would have to happen but the
payday would be I’m guessing Kel it
would be unbelievable what the purse
prizes would be if that all came
together of what that world tour let’s
call Flack of betterwood would look like
yeah it would be cool if they’re all
down there playing Royal Melbourne or
Kingston Heath or something in Australia
you know
and or go to Hong Kong or or go to
wherever uh you know you can get
anywhere in 24 hours nowadays pretty
much so it’s it’s it’s a lot of travel
but uh yeah for for what for what
they’re going to be playing for uh it
it’s well worth the trip so uh yeah I
that would be that would be cool to see
for
sure and I think you’d have to bring it
around the world I I you’re right it’s
going to have to be in South America
China I mean for that to work and for
the the the money behind it it’s going
to literally have to be a World Tour of
course you’d have some events in the
States but that’s the only way I see
almost like Formula 1 where it’s it’s on
that world circuit and and then but like
I said what would first prize be7 8
million for a win I mean probably yeah
right you’re talk yeah it it would be
insane which would be you know would be
fun to watch guys coming down playing
for 8 million bucks for a 4-day
tournament I hope they get it worked out
I really do I think it would be cuz the
majors are going to get all messed you
know I mean Taylor G should probably be
at the Masters realistically from the I
mean they’re going to have to figure
this out because otherwise you’re going
to have sure he should and I know he’s
better he’s not the Masters but uh you
know he won three times in the live to
or who cares you know world rankings and
the or who cares he’s Taylor G uh
so I don’t know I’m using that as an
example of if it kept spreading off
right if let’s are you going to lose
some players that realistically from a
if there was world rankings counting and
if it’s Liv golf or whatever it is but
it’s live golf right now are the
majors potentially not
getting the best possible field and do
they feel pressure to fix that somehow
on their own I’d rather see this whole
thing come together before that happened
yeah that’s true uh and I said the same
thing about the Ryder Cup last year uh
you know
you want the best players on both teams
whether they’re on live or not and you
know DJ should have been there Bryson
should have been there I don’t know
about Patrick Reed but you know there
was you know they picked Brooks because
he won the PGA and you know they said
you gotta pick Brooks so you why Z
picked him but um yeah I think you got
to have the best players for that event
from both sides no matter where they’re
playing golf and same with the majors uh
you know Taylor’s not in the in the
Masters and there’s I know there’s four
or five or six other guys that are uh
you know great players that probably
should be in the Masters as well but uh
you know that tournament’s always the
had historically the weakest field of of
all the
majors uh you know because it’s normally
around 80 or 90 players and eight of
arameters and you know eight of them
were past champions I mean there’s
there’s literally and and there’s going
to be another 20 guys are just going to
play bad that week you got like 40 guys
to beat uh is I think what the really
what the great players Think You Know
Jack always thought or or tiger always
thought or Phil whoever guys have won a
lot of lot of Masters uh and you know
they say it’s the easiest major to win
because of that well I don’t know about
that but uh it it it it’s it’s
definitely uh a good point where you
know you want the best players and and
the majors for sure
but I’m going to reverse my own argument
it wasn’t an argument but I mean like
Taylor G knew what he signed up for and
he made $33 million or whatever it is
last year so part part of that is like
dude you might not get in the majors but
you made 30 million you you you signed
that deal knowing there was not going to
be world ranking points like you can’t
come and complain now and right
so yeah sort of like you took that deal
so I don’t know what to tell you yeah I
I agree yeah exactly he’s he’s got more
money than you ever dreamed to have and
you know so he’s not in the Masters sit
at home and watch on TV uh right golf
tournament it’s a great golf tournament
but it’s not the end of the world and
and when he signed that deal he knew he
knew what he was doing and they all did
they all knew what they were they all
did they all
got you can’t go back now and say oh wo
to me right I mean why can’t I play in
the Masters you’re screwing me no you
you know that that’s that you know and
the official uh World Golf Ranking I
mean should the live guys be getting
points I I don’t know uh that that’s a
whole another argument I don’t
understand but uh
obviously you know DJ’s is is top
probably five player in the world right
and what’s his world ranking slip down
to now I don’t even know 100 or
something like that so you know that’s
that’s dumb but you know but he he’s as
a you know Past Masters champion he’ll
always be the Masters and but there will
be a time when these guys exemptions
will run out so you know in three or
four years what happens when uh you know
Patrick Reid or whatever is his
five-year Masters win runs out and he’s
not in any Majors or uh or Bryson or
even Dustin or whoever so uh unless it
all comes together it could be uh could
be you know really uh really weird but
but not good like I said you want the
best players and all the you want the
best yeah they gota they got to figure
something out well you brought the riter
cup this was going to bring something I
was I was going to you know bring up to
you in that situation of uh you know was
was Zack Johnson essentially in a no-win
situation in the sense of if the
politics of taking live guys he’s going
to have his Brethren on the PGA tour
pissed if that fails he’s he’s like I
don’t know how he was going to get out
of that situation right because if it
didn’t work no matter which way he went
he’s going to be
vilified yeah
yeah you’re doomed from the start yeah
he you know I’ve known Zach forever I
mean he’s he’s one of the nicest guys on
the planet but no matter what happened
uh and the way the course was set up uh
you know Luke Donald did a great job
with all that you know you got do is
grow foot deep rough and we’re in
trouble uh but I think our next Rider
cup or down the road we should play
8,500 yard course with no rough and 80
yard wide Fairways and and see what
happens well and that was my other thing
I was going to bring up right like does
do we eventually just not let the team
set this thing up because I to your
point it’s exactly what I would do if I
was Luke Donald it worked
at two parts of this it worked uh at
France too right where you know
same thing uh so then the here’s a weird
one for you do you start picking your
American team literally different
knowing this if they’re not going to
switch the course setup and just let
somebody neutral do it you know whoever
the R&A and the US I I would be the PGA
and the European tour right they they
come to an agreement where it’s more
neutral but if that doesn’t happen do
you have to start making picks based on
not gut or team or I want my boy there
but I don’t know uh take a modern day
Brian Gay and are you are you better off
to have a bunch of Brian Harmon going
into Europe who hit it long enough and
really accurate they’re not going to
overpower anything but the golf course
you know what you’re going to get ahead
of time do these captains have to the
Committees have to start thinking
although you know DJ is a better player
for example let’s say he was on the PJ
tour still this doesn’t set up great for
him and I have the the mathematics and
The Stance backing this up so I don’t
give a about the chemistry because
they play together it’s just going to be
like a computer saying these two guys
play together if the course looks like
this go play yeah it it it might uh
might kind of lean that direction like
you know I don’t know how long they’re
going to have the six qualifiers and
then six captains picks type thing I I
think six is too many uh because it’s
not really fair to the guy who finishes
seventh if he doesn’t get picked but any
R uh yeah yeah next time we go over to
Europe uh I’m not sure where the writer
oh uh a place in Ireland I think I
forget the name but you know what’s
coming it’s going to be a bowling alley
yeah it’s going to be it’s going to be
tight with deep RS so what do we do we
have our six qualifiers and then what
you do go down the stats and find the
next six straightest drivers no matter
who they are what not a bad idea right
that’s what I’m literally starting to
think Keel because I don’t think like
when you were playing the course setups
no one one talked about how much
different it it it is or was and now the
every Captain uses it to an advantage
and you know same with us at Hazel te
when they just you know you get all
bombers and you have no rough and you
put the pins in the middle of the green
and our guys go lower I I I don’t like
it because it’s like you can almost just
predict the outcome beforehand and then
but I’ll tell you what if somebody which
you know anointed me Captain and I got
to go pick a team I I I would really
it’s going to be outside the box of a
thought and thank God I’ll never be in
this position to have to do it but I
would literally have a computer
genius pick me out if I get five or six
picks to to your point who a modern-day
Brian Gay putts it great hits it
straight always in play give me five
who’s the best five and and then you may
have to tell the guys like you’re just
playing with this player today I don’t
know what to tell you I I don’t want the
input the the algorithm says X right and
I mean it would kind of take the wind
out of the Ridder cup a little bit but
I’m telling you what if my job was to
win I sure as would think about
doing it that way yeah yeah I agree
right yeah I hope they I hope they stop
this it I think it’d be better for the
event if they just make the make it like
a normal event whatever that is right of
and everyone I’m sure the guys setting
the golf courses up know what I’m
talking about where it’s not so extreme
on our side and so extreme on their side
yeah I think it’d be a better for the
match so I it was interesting and the
other thing I was going to ask you too
like how much does the does the captain
really make that much of a difference or
like I can’t imagine I would need to
motivate you to play like you’re a
professional golfer it’s what you do for
a living you don’t like losing at
anything like or does it could a captain
literally just say you an next player go
out and play I don’t you don’t need me
to coach you up you guys know what
you’re doing it’s why you’re on this
team go play yeah uh I i’ I’ve said that
for a long long time uh you know Luke
Donald’s about the quietest calmest guy
you could ever meet I mean you see him
getting fired up in the locker room you
know like a like a football coach
screaming his guys you know let’s go at
top of his lungs no um you know these
guys are all professional golfers they
know how to play golf it’s the rder cup
trust me they’re fired up uh and you
know Jack wasn’t raah raah raah in ‘
87 Raymond in ‘ 89 you Raymond was a
little bit more fiery but he says Okay C
you’re going to go play with Ken green
an alternate shot go go get a point
whatever and then yeah we’re fired up
we’re GNA go do it so yeah these guys
know what they’re doing out there it’s
just it’s not you can’t blame a captain
for you know Zach was in a tough spot
but you know he’s going to get
criticized with his pairings or he’s
going to get criticized for this or that
you know if they don’t win it’s his
fault you know he was a he was a bad
leader he you know he didn’t the the
team wasn’t together they didn’t hang
out in the team room that’s all bunch of
crap it has to be right like because
like it said I think the captains in the
Ryder Cup at least of of recent times
this is just as a golf fan looking at it
they’re uh over criticized and blamed
when they lose like they’re the worst
leader like exactly decision ever and if
you win Thomas beorn should be going up
for a Nobel laurate Prize right I I I
don’t think it’s qu it’s quite the
players still have to play like I I
truly think you could give me a stat guy
I watch enough golf where I would be
like you guys are going to go play and I
would hope they would play because
they’re pros and it’s the rder cup right
like I it’s it’s strange to me how much
the captaincy has turned in I think when
you probably first started the captain
SE wasn’t as big of a thing as it is now
right or that pressure on the captains
no I mean you know Dave Stockton was a
great Captain they were all great
captains Jack obviously was great
Raymond was amazing but you know just
because they’re great guys uh you know
we’ve known them forever and Curtis was
was fantastic at the doer and 02 so my
four captains were were awesome but it
wasn’t wasn’t their fault we we won lost
tied or whatever uh it was our fault you
know at at the at the belfre in ‘ 89 of
us hit in the water in 18 including me
uh you know and we end up tying it it
was one of the most it was as bad as
Medina uh when we somehow didn’t win
that one uh a few well probably 10 years
ago already uh yeah we were all crying
we were stunned you know it looked like
we couldn’t possibly lose and we end up
tying which they kept the cup so uh
that’s got nothing to do with Raymond
Floyd Tru trust me so uh yeah yeah it’s
like I said I think uh I think it’s
going to be very interesting going
forward and uh like I said boy the
captain C is a high it’s there’s a it’s
a high highrisk situation where I don’t
remember it being like that where you’re
just going to get killed if you lose and
if you win like I said you’re anointed
it’s uh oh it’s still just golf it’s
Luke Donald’s a European hero now he’s
like yeah he’s probably gonna be sir
Luke Donald at no time yeah and and and
Zach you know people are giving him
at you know still in in in yeah like
it’s dude the guy’s not hitting golf
shots like I don’t know what to tell you
yeah the fans were roughing him up in
Phoenix you know I mean
Jesus right he didn’t hit a shot but
yeah he didn’t hit a shot you know he
tried his
best you know it’s interesting yeah well
that’s was interesting for your take on
it cuz you’ve been inside of that and
like I said it sounds like you’re saying
kind of like like like the player have
to hit the golf shots and to the point
you don’t need to be motivated you’re on
the you’re playing in the goddamn Rider
cup like you should be at your best
ready to go it’s not on the captain so
yeah you know next one’s going to be
interesting but I agree with you it’s
going to be 8,500 yards no rough and get
get our bombers out there and we’ll
probably win by five or six points and
here we go again yeah Beth Page is going
to be uh it’s going to be that could be
a little
crazy 100% yeah it’s coming the other
direction uh going to ask you on the
Florida swing like and let me know your
thoughts on this but as a Midwest guy I
always thought all right PJ tour fan now
the season started we got the Florida
swing did you as a player and I know you
like playing Florida growing up and
stuff did you kind of feel that did you
really put an emphasis on this start to
Augusta of getting ready for the Honda
and getting ready for these tournaments
and starting to Prime up for the
season no that that that wasn’t a thing
back in my era uh you know like the
season start at Dural back when we used
to played Dural or or once the Florida
swing starts it’s the buildup to the
Masters uh I I never thought that way I
I enjoyed playing the West Coast
tournaments uh especially Phoenix uh the
Hope wasn’t a huge fan well totally not
a fan of Tory Pines but you know I had
some good tournaments there I played
there anyway and I always enjoyed going
up the pebble blah blah blah so you know
I I I always played a lot of golf uh in
in November and December and I was I was
kind of anxious to go play so uh and
then once we got to Florida yeah I was I
was super excited because I love Jal uh
back in the early days before it got all
messed up and of course the Honda uh in
my neck of the woods here so uh yeah
those those were great tournaments and
the players I nearly won that one um
Jody mud edged me out in 91 I think uh
so love love playing in Florida but yeah
the Masters uh and I didn’t think about
wanting to play the week before or not
you know that wasn’t a deal then either
you know now it’s like oh yeah guys want
to play the week before the Masters so
they’re tournament ready I mean that’s a
bunch of crap Phil always said that uh
that’s the dumbest thing I’ve ever heard
uh you know you your tournament ready
trust me when you get to Augusta uh it’s
like the writer cup if you’re not fired
up to playing the Masters or’s something
wrong with you uh so you know I I I
never thought that way about the Florida
swing is the build up to the Masters you
you got out of the gate played West
Coast and just kept it rolling if it was
rolling it was rolling there was no
right yeah like like how it is now where
it’s segmented off and they got the
regimen if you felt that you were on a
heater and you’re playing good you’re
going to keep playing uh there was no
yeah real full game plan this is exactly
how you do it each year and I never went
to Augusta you know on my private plane
that I never had you know a month early
to play two days you know like tiger and
Phil and all these guys do now they
played there a 100 times they know the
course uh I I rolled in there Monday I I
played 18 Tuesday uh and usually nine on
Wednesday played the far three and and
and T up and and did my best prep work
uh for the players like I said I know
you’ve came you came close to winning it
um a lot of guys I talked to love that
Golf Course what’s what’s the key for
these guys to play well there because
it’s a it’s you get interesting
Champions you get guys who bomit and
then you get the Fred funks of the world
who are precise and kind of everywhere
in between so it’s from his fan
standpoint it’s a very interesting
tournament that it’s not really you know
one player it seems to have a huge
Advantage there I had a little bit of a
LoveHate relationship with the players
uh championship and and the TPC there
you know I had really good tournaments
and I had some really bad tournaments uh
My Success at 17 was pretty good I think
I only hit it in the water twice there
my entire career so that was good but as
you just
said that’s one of the greatest things
about that tournament in that Golf
Course is anybody can win
it anybody literally anybody in the
entire field if they play well you know
keep it out out of the water keep it in
play make enough putts hit enough good
iron shots and take their way around
that course anybody can win it and
that’s that’s probably the greatest
thing about that that golf course and
that tournament
it favors no one as you just said is it
is it one and it’s Pete Dy so I’m
guessing like that’s one where you were
on your toes for 18 holes like right
there’s no there’s no sort of slap it
out their hole it’s fine I’m going to
have a breather here right at least when
I play Pete di he gets in my head of
angle seems strange and I’m never
totally comfortable off the tea uh I
think of any other designer he has you
know Pete
di I got to play that Golf Course a few
times to see the line of of of what he’s
designing I I I struggle on those golf
courses a little bit but might just be
me but I always was I’m always a little
uncomfortable on a Pete die golf course
yeah you’re not the only one that was
his whole whole thing is he wanted to
make you feel uncomfortable on the te
box even though even though you knew
there was plenty of Fairway out there it
was still kind of either a strange look
or didn’t suit your eye you know there’s
like some there’s like there’s several
t-shirts shots at the
TPC uh in
Jacksonville where like two two was just
the worst driving hole in the world for
me if you hit a fade uh you know I tried
to hook drivers I tried to hook
freewoods I tried to hit a a fade over
the trees I tried everything and then
for the hookers number five is a
terrible look because you don’t want to
start a out over the water right and try
to hook it back to the Fairway uh and
then you know back and in my day the the
left rough was always about a foot deep
so there’s and they’re 14s and other hle
uh you don’t know how to hit a fade or a
hook off that te or just try to hit it
straight or steer it out there or
whatever so there’s there’s there’s a
bunch of holes like that where it’s it’s
uncomfortable for nearly everybody in
the field and again that’s what that’s
kind of what makes it uh makes it such a
good course I think it’s interesting for
the fans to watch right cuz you’re like
how how is this this player’s playing
this bad this week but if you know Pete
D golf courses right it just doesn’t
take much if you’re just off a tad you
can shoot a 75 out there probably for
for your guys your level you’re at in a
millisecond right you also can shoot a
65 yeah but if you the wind kicks up and
it’s swirling through those trees it’s
going all over the place and then the
entire round no matter whether you start
on 10 or or one you know you still know
you got to play 17 and 18 so that’s also
always in the back of your mind is you
know you could be rolling into 17
four or five under for the day and and
and shoot even par uh you know the play
the last two holes about five over so
and that’s happened uh numerous times as
we all we’ve all seen so uh it it’s uh
it it’s my second favorite tournament to
watch other than the masters of course
uh I love watching the Masters and uh
but I I also love watching The Players
because of a a 17 well the other big one
this year uh Royal trune You’ you’ve had
a little success there um the open out
there this year uh if you were given
advice to a young terrain Pro he said
Kell I want to hold the claric jug what
do I need to do on this golf course you
know what what advice would you have and
you know uh what makes I mean it’s one
of the best golf course in the world but
from your eyes what makes it just you
know truly one of the best lyx
experiences a golfer can have it really
is there’s there’s just there’s just no
bad holes there uh I I Honestly Love
every hole in that course and there’s
very few courses that uh I’ve ever
played that I can say that uh and again
my buddy Eric Cole somebody has
convinced him that it’s a fader course
and I said that’s not true uh there’s no
trees out there you can hit it any
direction you want uh in fact there’s a
couple holes where it helps the hit a
draw off the te which air kits so uh I
said it’s not a faders course it’s it’s
it’s just a it’s just a great course you
got to keep it out of the bunkers like
open courses and uh you know and see see
what the weather gives you uh you know
if you if you get on the good side of it
or the bad side of it or you know most
of the time the front n’s downwind there
and the back n’s a beast back into the
wind you’ll see guys shooting you know
32 42 all the time there uh but uh I I I
when I Monday when I first saw the
course in 1989 I knew I loved it I was
playing well and uh yeah it was it was a
great week
oh yeah you know and you got the goods
to prove it right every now and then you
got to look over and look at that thing
and go yeah that one’s mine I look at it
every day it’s sitting it’s sitting
right next to my TV so in other words
yeah I I see it every day it needs a it
needs a little polish work right now but
uh I I’ll get it shined up and uh yeah I
look I look at it every day even after
all these years it’s still it’s still
got to be special right every now and
then when you give it a glance and
you’re like yeah that that’s yeah that’s
good as it gets right like that’s as
good every day I think about it because
of that reminder uh because I look at it
all the time so I’m like blame you you
know and a lot of times I’m like wow I
can’t believe I I won that thing you
know and it’s just like the most
sought-after
uh uh you know trophy I think in pro
golf uh honestly I think if you pulled
every single player in professional golf
which tournament they’d like most like
to win and I’m almost certain even
Americans before the US Open would would
say the Open Championship
oh I agree with you I if you could give
me one I would take the over I’d take a
open over a master’s yeah you get
players from all over the world you get
uh you know the conditions the the
atmosphere the the golf courses uh the
fans the knowledge uh just the whole
thing uh is just uh you know really
really unique and I knew it was my
favorite tourn the first year I played
in 1987 at mirfield I think I finished
12 and I thought man this is this was
the coolest tournament i’ ever played in
and even if I hadn’t won it two years
later uh I I I would still told you that
after playing in uh 32 of them I think
or 31 I’m not sure but yeah I played a
lot of them so it was fun well I got the
experience as close as iiv get last year
Zack fiser was won the Argentine open
who plays sub 70 clubs got into the Open
Championship from that win so I went
over there and got to walk inside the
ropes with them on you know like a
Wednesday practice round and walking up
18th and I’m thinking you know and it’s
packed on a on a practice round right
I’m walking with the guys I’m like
thinking to myself I I can’t imagine
what this feeling must be like you know
with a three- shot lead like Brian had
someone’s going to walk up that Fairway
and that crowd and that backdrop and
that scoreboard like it got it was like
magical for me just to be inside the
ropes let alone playing in the
tournament let alone like you’ve won it
and like what you know what that feeling
must be like obviously years in a
playoff and it wasn’t just an easy walk
and you had to go you know you had to
play some golf still but man Kell what a
backdrop right like it’s just I can’t
put my there’s something so special
about it and it’s the fans and you can
get close to the players and then the
course and then just just the backdrop
of the thing it kind of hits you like
this is the world’s Championship right
here right like it’s it’s it’s got a
Vibe like anything else I’ve I’ve never
seen anything like a being around golf
tournaments it was truly that special
just for me being a
fan yeah I I think and and to sum that
up uh a friend of mine from Arizona CAD
for me at uh uh Royal liin the St ANS uh
I think it was the year Layman won uh
not entirely sure was that 91 or uh yeah
91 I think 95 I don’t know whatever year
it was uh I just kind of I think I
bogied 15 and 17 but I was still like in
the top 15 so you know still having a
good tournament and my buddy we tee off
an 18 and we get out there I hit my
second shot and my buddy says look I
know you’re pissed off right now but
this is without a doubt the coolest
moment of my life he said that to me he
said I’ll never forget this as long as I
live uh this is the the greatest
experience i’ I’ve ever seen just
walking up uh you know the last four or
five groups at the open uh with the with
the stance packed uh so yeah I remember
that and I’m like yeah you’re right it
is pretty cool isn’t it well and also
for you being an ex Champion right is
you know there is something special
those fans have I noticed that when I
was there if you are an open Champion oh
yeah the reception you got in a practice
round was crazy yeah like those fans
know it right there is a certain amount
of admiration and respect when an open
Champion is at a te boox right it was
crazy like how you know daily I followed
daily for a little bit and like the
respect I mean Standing Ovation as he
gets to the te it’s a practice round but
he’s he’s a former open Champion right
like there is that level of respect I
think when you when you when you rais
that cleric jug I mean like I said I’m
I’m sure for your buddy cadan too
there’s something a little extra special
of you walking up that Fairway as a
former Champion too of what you feel
from The Crowd Oh every year uh no doubt
uh it’s it’s been cool I’ve gotten just
amazing treatment over there from the
fans and uh uh you know autographs and
you know and so many people say oh I was
there at trun in ’89 and you know I’m
like really you’re not that old he goes
I was like six but I remember
it yeah yeah all kind still to this day
in uh Champions Tour prams I I’ll I’ll
play with a guy or or somebody to come
up to me and says you know I was there
in 89 on Sunday when you want it TR I’m
like wow that’s cool so yeah I at it all
the time so it’s a great
reminder well deserved sir well I
appreciate it as always I always love
the insights kind of the start of the
year we’ve we’ve definitely had a lot of
talk about the last couple years of uh
you know where this great game is going
with all the craziness but uh I
certainly appreciate the conversation so
thank you so much Kel um you know look
forward to watching on the champions
tour being healthy this year too we’ll
keep our eye out on it and play well all
right Jason thanks about any time
