What “bag” is the right “bag” for Patriots to trade down?

Where do the Patriots stand in their decision on what to do with the No. 3 pick in the NFL draft? Tom Curran and Phil Perry discuss the latest as the top QBs in the draft participate in their pro days.

3:00-How collaborative will the draft decisions be?
10:30-Stop setting up expectations for playoffs. Underestimate and overperform!
16:00-Reaction to pro days
21:30- What “bag” is the right “bag” for Patriots to trade down?
28:00-HEATED DEBATE: Do you need the QB?!

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[Applause] hey what’s up everybody welcome into Tom cen’s Patriots Talk podcast Phil Perry will be along in just a second I just want to set the table a little bit for this critical Patriots off season we’ve seen them in free agency and now we’ve heard from them from them as they lead

Toward the draft and there are Myriad people involved in the decisions to be made as we see with the contingents heading out to see Jaden Daniels and Drake May on consecutive days to scout the quarterbacks for a team with the number three pick who’s got his hands at 10 and two

On this franchise right now seems to be Elliot wolf here’s Robert Craft This Week speaking about wolf and his vision for what his Personnel Department should do I think um Elliot has good training good pedigree um and we actually have a good group of young people I I’ll tell you we’re we’re

Starting new chapters in our development and as we evolve here and I I like the young people we have doing this you know we were in an in an environment previously where everything really funnel to the top and um maybe maybe some of the young people that have

Worked real hard didn’t get a chance to have their positions heard or or or maybe didn’t speak up as much I’ve encouraged them to be collaborative and I think the combination of Gerard and um Matt and together with Elliot are I’m actually excited what I’ve seen and

You know that also sort of ties in with uh how players have changed to really over the last 10 15 years and how systems have changed so I think they’re in tune and I’m excited and um I mean some people call me an eternal optimist so I don’t know how much you

Should take what I say but I I really I’m excited by what’s going on and the process and they’re thorough they’re very thorough so I’m excited about what I’ve seen so far and we’ll evaluate after the draft and see how that’s gone and decide where we go from there so here’s a list

Of the Drake May contingent that on Thursday was in North Carolina yeah had Gerard Mayo Elliot wolf Alex Van Pelt the offensive coordinator quarterbacks coach TC McCartney senior offensive assistant Ben McAdoo director of player Personnel mat grow senior Personnel adviser Patrick Stewart senior Personnel executive Alonzo heith and National

Scout Matt Evans at all according to Albert Breer meanwhile the college scouting director Cameron Williams and Personnel coordinator Brian Smith um were both at Daniels and they are on the road elsewhere um Washington also has a pro day and Michael penx is out there but let’s talk for a second about group

Dynamics certainly through the vision of Robert Craft you have a big group of people here many of whom have not worked together before many of whom are wondering about their jobs and their Futures not just Elliot wolf who understands the Patriots are going to continue to talk to GM candidates after

The season but you know guys like Matt Gro and all these individuals are in charge of picking the players that they will then hand over to a first year head coach Elliot wolf is almost certainly not going anywhere he hired High Smith Van Pelt Etc you’re not going to have

Him around to form the staff just to poop can him later because somebody else looks better in June or July it’s just not going to happen that’s not their intention but everybody from Wolf to Gro to heith to Alex velt is going to look at this is an opportunity to prove their

Worth show what they’ve got at act on their vision for what they think an offense should look like who’s going to make it all coals properly between all these personalities who don’t really know each other perhaps that well you know belich used to say you cannot orchestrate

Chemistry you can bring guys in but you don’t put them next to each other in the locker room and say you like him and you’re gonna like him and you guys are gonna get along great just doesn’t work that way it has to be organic and with so many different Dynamics

Exerting themselves on this Patriots Personnel staff not going to say that there’s competing interests but with so many there could be difficult to have the dovetail it’s going to be hard and this isn’t pining for Bill’s way of doing things the recent big decisions that he

Made at quarterback in 2019 and in 2021 and in 2022 in free agency at wide out left tackle that that’s why the change was made and the Patriots didn’t want him to run this rebuild at all those positions in essence but in lie of him running

It there’s a whole lot of trust in Elliot wolf to get it right and there are so many options trade down take may take McCarthy what do you do about Jaden Daniels if he’s sitting there what constitutes a quote unquote bag what’s the correct bag success has many fathers failure is

An orphan and I’m not saying that this isn’t the way to go about it it’s just that these guys need trust that they are doing things correctly or at least using the right process let’s bring our guy feel in here well there he is Phil Perry fresh off a

Stint on the television radio Phil with all these different competing interests how do the Patriots make sure that there is unanimity and nobody there going this is what I want to do this is the wrong thing to do here’s what I think is is good about the situation that the Patriots have

Right now is that there’s not going to be unanimity I think competing interests are good because I think you’re going to find that that leads to conversations that get to the bottom of who these players really are M having well-reasoned well formulated arguments when there are those kinds of dis

Agreements I think is healthy and I think that’s what they’re actually looking for I think that’s what Robert Craft is trying to Foster with the number of talented people that they have in the front office now I think where you can run into trouble with competing interest

Is if you’re making those arguments in bad faith right and maybe realize you’re doing it in bad faith but if you’re if you have biases that you’re not acknowledging and you’re fighting because you have something else in the back of your mind that you think is

What’s in the best interest of of you and not the team then that’s where you could run into trouble but I think they feel as though they have people that are not going to be doing that bad faith sort of argument argument I mean TJ McCartney and Alex Van Pelt are going to

Want a quarterback gerro just wants somebody good over there I think that gerro if you H him with the truth Ser he’d say they’re going to figure that out that’s why we have Elliot that’s why we have Alex that’s why we have Ben McAdoo that’s why we have TJ McCartney who’s

McCarthy who’s the quarterback’s coach but they all have a vested interest in it being a quarterback then you have Matt Gro for instance H how does he feel about Elliot wolf being the the GM and a lot of these guys as reported I Believe by Albert have expiring contracts still that will

Expire after the draft so in theory collaboration’s awesome but I think you and I can collaborate and disagree in a in a very solid way because we know there’s Mutual trust we’re both working at the same goal but when the goal is more ambiguous as to your personal space then it it’s

Harder yeah it is I think it is harder especially when you’re talking about the big picture decision if you’re just talking about do we take a quarterback at three or not that to me is a little bit tougher where I where I encourage disagreement

Is on the player do we take Drake May or do we take Jaden Daniels or do we take JJ McCarthy so the approach to me does have to be spearheaded by three people and that really is it so Matt Gro you’re not in the room TC McCartney you certainly

Aren’t in the room for this Alex Vel you when we are deciding between quarterbacks then you come on in you have a seat at the table and we want to hear from you otherwise it’s gerod Mayo it’s Elliot wolf and it is Robert Craft

If you want to have a seat in there for Jonathan Craft then you have to have a seat in there for Jonathan Craft but that is a big picture franchise altering decision and I don’t want that many voice I don’t want nine voices when it

Comes to do we trade back or not it’s really interesting because you know that’s that’ll be a fascinating thing to watch on draft night how many people are in the Patriots draft room and how active are they in terms of wandering around and looking over people’s shoulders um this brings us to our

Second topic Robert Craft at the owners meetings um delivering a message about what he hopes to see this year and I wrote about this because this stands apart I think in an offseason of statements as the most rudderless of all statements here’s Robert talking about expectations in the

Playoffs My Hope and expectations is to make the playoffs that’s that’s something um realistically we have a new leadership team we’re going to have a lot of young players we don’t know you know a lot can happen we might struggle more than I want but the good news and when you’re

Running any business is you try to figure out what the key variables are and then you try to put people in place that you think can react and adapt to what has to happen I really feel we have a good young team and um I just hope we don’t struggle under

Promise overd deliver do not mention the postseason except to say it’ll be nice to get back there sooner rather than later don’t talk about this year and then don’t follow it up with I hope we don’t struggle on a couple of different occasions mentioning struggling you’re going to struggle it’s

Going to be a struggle all of it roster’s not good rookie quarterback you name it um I mean they’re staring up at Everest here trying to get back to where they were as I said the other day they need to have a more clear practice in messaging because this

Year’s phrase it’s going to stick around is going to be expect to make the playoffs Andor top rate Young quarterback whoever comes in to play quarterback Phil it’ll be well is that a top rate Young quarterback like Robert asked and what if it isn’t you’re pulling away opportunities from your personnel people

To have the latitude to do whatever they want to do at the top of the draft because most people are going to say Michael penx is not a top rate Young quarterback and B knck barely qualifies if at all so you the messaging we talked

About it a little the other day let’s do it again no I I agree this this in terms of setting the expectations for your fans is an issue if that’s what you care about you have not set yourselves up for success in this regard and I do look to

Ownership here because there is there is not a clear hierarchy Tom think about how the messages have been disseminated this offseason and just in the last week or so you have D Mayo who again he’s he’s at the owners meetings he’s talking to everyone there and he’s deferring to Elliot wolf on Personnel

Decisions Robert Craft is deferring to Elliot wolf in some way in a roundabout way when meeting with people in Orlando by saying well we want to do whatever we think is the right thing to do and he’s talking about potentially trading down and he’s he’s saying that he trusts his

Young team he’s talking about mayo and Elliot essentially and maybe Matt Gro is somewhere in that mix but we know Elliot wolf has final St on personnel and so they’re both sort of deferring to Elliot wolf in the same week where all the most important people in the NFL are meeting

In Orlando and Elliot Wolf’s not there because he doesn’t have the general manager title Tom and he’s not guaranteed his job beyond the draft so you have the coach who’s deferring to ownership and Elliott and you have ownership who’s deferring to the coach and Elliott and you have Elliott who’s

Not even there because he doesn’t have a title yet who is leading the charge here who the the fans don’t know and I think that’s part of the reason why the message has been murky because the hierarchy within the organization right now is murky as well yeah and on

Occasions we’ve had to to speak to the owner you know Robert Craft I I have expressed my mystification at what the plan is you going to just do this so what are you saying you you you have $100 million do of cap space you have the third overall pick and then in May

Or June you might pick a new guy that doesn’t seem to make sense um but that’s why in L of an answer which we really did not get when that was roached it’s tends to feel like this is a bag job that he is the general manager but still still until you’re

Hired you’re not hired so it’s an odd situation and again your Dismount from bellich if you saber rattled as much as Robert Craft did for the last few years and you’ve seen the results in free agency and you’ve seen the results in the draft and you have a 4 and13 team

That’s dysfunctional and bill has made bad decisions yes follow through on your promise that you’re going to move on but when you move on the however cogent your plan is is going to matter and two months I just have a feeling that sometime in 2028 you and me are gonna

Look back and go 2024 was pretty weep that John that was a wild time um might be right so back to top rate Young quarterback Phil that’s going to be the measuring stick hit me with your impressions of Daniels and how much can May improve or demolish his chances being the third overall

Pick I don’t think he can demolish his chances at a pro day Pro dayss are so well choreographed that there’s very little in my opinion to gain from a prod day now you you do have people like Scott zolak who you know by his own as admission he’s not watching every game

Of these guys in real time as they’re happening so he sees somebody like JJ McCarthy work from under Center and he says wow really nice feet he he knows what he’s doing in terms of his footwork getting out from behind Center when most college quarterbacks don’t uh and so

That impresses someone like him does that really make a wave one way or the other for NFL people I kind of doubt it I think they want to see how they interact with their teammates because they’ve already seen it they’ve already seen it yeah they haven’t seen it they

Haven’t seen it for somebody like Daniels or may but again they know that going in so if it’s sloppy from under center with no pads on when you played three four five years and you never took a snap under Center hardle that’s not going to ding you too much in my opinion

What matters is how you interact with your teammates um maybe what staffers are saying about you on a day like that uh you know Patriots had nine people at Jaden Daniels uh Pro they’ll have eight at at Drake may you can do all sorts of crowdsourcing in terms of what these

Guys are like behind the scenes and the interviews I think the interviews really matter they’ll have a chance to meet with these guys and talk with them and and all of those are valuable in my opinion now the interesting things with Daniels to me from his prod

Day number one he weighed in at2 10 pounds which I think is actually a positive for him MH though I would still be concerned if I’m an NFL team because if he has been working furiously to put on weight since the end of his college season which was months ago to now and

He’s still only 210 which is let’s be honest on the Lighter Side especially for a guy who’s 6 fo3 6’4 yeah 64 yep then that’s a bit of a concern because is his stomach just loaded with water or protein shakes or whatever it is to to

Weigh him down on his prod day uh and then he can you know he can pee like Austin Powers before he has to actually go throw out on the practice field and he’s fine and he’s and he’s actually weighing at 202 you know that’s that that’s a concern for me uh and it’s

Especially a concern because of his his play style which is so scramble heavy he’s great from the pocket but there are some numbers that um Nate Ty who does work for the athletic and for Yahoo I does a great job of tracking some of this stuff with some some Advanced

Numbers he found that when pressured Jaden Daniels on 50% of his dropbacks he’s either scrambling or taking a sack MH that’s a really high number you know for only 50% of those dropbacks when pressured to result in throws is a really a low number and so like that me a little concerning if

You’re skinny veering real quick for the hell of it just to JJ McCarthy we had all those numbers that our friend Thor gave us just by way of example a scrambling JJ McCarthy is a better thrower than a scrambling J Daniels statistically at least from last year smaller sample size for McCarthy because

He was on a different style team but he’s As Good As It Gets In terms of footwork and fundamentals probably among the four of them Phil is that conceivable uh he might be but his arm’s not as good and so you know he’s but it’s pretty good

It’s pretty good kind of a B+ arm you know which is which is is it as good as maze because he threw with velocity that was Superior to maze I believe at the combat uh Maiden throw out the combine so okay so no but he did have a good but

He did have a good1 miles hour 61 yeah for whatever that’s worth um no his his arm’s not as strong as May’s is what is what Scouts would tell you and may is is bigger and stronger physically and so he has moments where you he’s got defensive

Tackles on him and he’s still able to throw a 15 yard out and and put it on the money in certain instances so um it’s just it’s that Reliance on the scramble are your eyes every time you’re pressure do your eyes come down and when you do move off your spot like for

Daniels I actually would love to see just the sheer number of throws on the Run Daniels to McCarthy because everyone looks at McCarthy and says well he barely threw he might have almost the same number of on theun types of throws as Jane Daniels because when Daniels

Starts to move he does not throw he moves to run and and it’s it’s like this uh binary proposition for Daniels he’s either throwing from the pocket or he’s scrambling there there’s not a lot of uh creativity in his game which is a little weird to try to Envision because

He is such a great athlete yeah it’s there creativity when he begins to run there creativity in being Elusive and escaping to run um but the same thing really again it and I’m not really pumping JJ McCarthy to an extent even though Thor made me excited about him

But he’s got some innovation in his running and his escapeability and that’s the thing if you guys want to jump online and look at some J.J McCarthy highlights he is constantly two hands on the ball I scanning downfield as he’s running always trying to get the shoulders you

Know squared to where he’s trying to throw he’s not wide open it’s not a mess it’s it’s noticeable um all that said Phil with Daniels with May with McCarthy with these Pro days we’re very quarterback Centric right now but I feel right now maybe it’s just the amount of time we’ve had

To spend on this conversation maybe it’s us just pointing out the real amazing value you can get for that third overall pick for a rebuilding team but we’re hearing much more trade down conversation and when gerro Mayo says that we will consider a bag to me for the Patriots you have to get

Minnesota’s first round pick next year to constitute a bag that almost is predicates the entire move what are you getting in 2024 excuse me 2025 if you get 11 and 23 from Minnesota and next year’s first round pick to couple with your own for next year you

Can do an amazing number of things Phil what constitutes a bag do you think and then we’ll get into some of the deals that we’ve seen made to move up so what constitutes a bag for me 11 and 23 is in a bag my willingness to do

It yeah no no no it starts with 1123 in a future first that’s where I start to consider it okay and I would prefer honestly I’d prefer more because Tom I like these quarterbacks enough to take them at three and to me the odds on you

Hitting on all of those picks and making it all work out and trading up and finding that quarterback that you love I just I don’t know I don’t know what next year looks like I’m not confident in next year’s quarterbacks class and guys do pop up out of nowhere as Daniels did

This year and have success and could end up being great options but that’s still an unknown to me and I’m looking at Drake May and Jaden Daniels now and I’m saying these guys have the potential to be franchise Changers and boy I’m not sure I’d do that in terms of giving that

Up for four first round picks I really don’t because I think that position is that valuable and I and I don’t love I don’t love the The Pie in the Sky idea is that you’re gonna hit on all four of those picks and the reality of is of it

Is you might hit on two here’s what’s Wild when you look at the 2019 draft that the Patriots took um nille Harry that was a deep wide receiver draft the Patriots just took the wrong fraking one which Bill had a tendency to do with that position can you get it right at

Receiver that to me is is what’s so important to look at and actually Phil you know what I’m asleep at the switch here I want to get some let me do these deals first okay um here’s a few recent ones to just mul folks and bear with me

Because I know it gets convoluted last year the Panthers traded with the Bears okay and the Panthers traded their first round pick from last year and second round picks and then their 2024 first round pick which is going to be Caleb Williams and DJ Moore they did all that

So they could get up to number one and take Bryce young okay just ruminate on we don’t have to have opinions but that’s uh a swap of firsts and then this year’s first which turns into Caleb Williams plus DJ Moore in 2021 when the Niners jumped up to go get Trail an at

Number three they sent Miami um first round picks in 21 22 and 23 and the ners sent back um 12 29 and 101 so there was a for round pick Swap and here’s one other last one folks this is really pertinent because I love this move and it’s a double it’s a double

Move Arizona last year they were in three they made a move with Houston allowing Houston to come up to three um the the trade with the Cardinals was like this Arizona got the number 12 and the 33rd overall pick plus Houston’s 2024 first in a 2024 third

Rounder okay then they jumped back up Arizona did sitting there at 12 and said you know what let’s get up there and take our guy Paris Johnson so I’m not going to get into all the details they just set more crap back at the Lions but they were able to jump

Back up Phil what do you like that one I love that the double move is that’s the listen Monty Austin for might be able to do that again he sits at number four which is going to be a coveted spot could he trade down to to 11 with the

Vikings who are very hungry for a quarterback for instance and then be at 11 and say you know what I’d really love to make sure we get one of these top tier receivers so let’s trade back up to eight with Atlanta they’re pretty loaded on offensive talent and we’ll make sure

We get romad dun exactly like that that’s what if he does that again then we start calling that trade back to trade up we start calling that move the the Austin forward I saw somebody else um call it that in in somewhere in the draft media world and I love that if he

Does it again anytime a team does this trade down trade back up in the same round um we’re calling that the Austin for and you’re adding third rounders you’re adding second rounders in the in the tradeoff so that’s why I think the Patriots should be trying to court Minnesota right

Now find out what it’s going to be not saying do the deal find out what you can extract because they’ll just screw it all right we’ll take J.J McCarthy I don’t care go ahead take Drake may go ahead take Jaden Daniels we’re fine with whoever’s left at number four but if the

Patriots say let’s get out of here and then maybe we can come back to number four with Monty because Monte doesn’t need a quarterback you’re gonna add picks I’m just saying play the board play the game play the board Phil if they say let’s get out of here with

Drake May on the board that’s such a bad move in my opin no it isn’t it’s such a bad move he’s he is way too talented he is way too phys physically talented he has done too much in a bad situation where you can actually project

What it might look like in a bad situation here and listen if you don’t want to play him because you think it’s borderline dangerous to have him out there then fine at least he’s in the organization and at least you feel as though you’ve got something to build on

Moving forward as you build your team do you think the wide receiver tree and the left tackle tree are more realistic trees than the quarterback tree that I often reference yes because to me in order to win and win at a high level and especially win

In the AFC where Josh Allen and Patrick Mahomes will be here for the next 10 years and Joe Barrow for that matter you have to have high high highend quarterback play I don’t care what the rest of your roster looks like you know you need that wait a minute so that’s

What I’m that’s what I’m gunning for and to me that’s what Drake May is all those quarterbacks have an elite receiver at the very least and some of them have good offensive L I’m not going to go through the offens but they’re not made they’re not made by those players sure

Stefon Diggs didn’t make Josh Allen that much better Jamar Chase didn’t Joe burrow better Tom those guys Thomas do those guys have physical skills that are unique to them these quarterbacks or are they Brock pie Joe barro is not that unique he is a good athlete with he his

Arm is not amazing it’s not Josh Allen it’s not Patrick Mahomes it’s not who’s a better who’s a better physical Prospect Joe burrow or Drake May Thomas can you get good receivers in the second round are good receivers out there does every team have almost two good receivers and we’re just how about

Because you haven’t seen one in New England in 10 years how about Taw Thorton huh dbo all right AJ BR if you want to win in the AFC if you want to get to a Super Bowl you need a high-end quarterback stop it stop a highend quarterback doesn’t turn into

A don’t do drugs commercial I’m looking into the camera and I’m saying you don’t think you need a high-end quarterback to make a Super Bowl in the AFC for the next 10 years oh in the AFC do you need one in the NFC stop

It stop it do you need one in the NFC just this conference because you don’t need one in the NFC it doesn’t matter the patri are the Patriots changing conferences sometime soon is Pat no but I’m just saying the irrationality of the argument is that it’s specific to this

Conference it is do you not are you not competing with Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen yeah but just because you’re hisory has those guys well okay how come Brock P so fraking good because got Trent he doesn’t have to beat patri Josh Allen to get to the Super Bowl that’s

Why well Josh Allen didn’t beat Patrick Mahomes to get to the Super Bowl and he wouldn’t have been in that game if he didn’t have Stefan Diggs what I’m saying Tomas listen I’m not you’re not gonna get me to say you don’t need good receivers to win in the

NFL I think you been saying that it’s easier to find good receivers it’s easier to find average tackles all you need is to be average along the line that was the original question you all you need to be is average along the line and you do need receiving Talent it is

Much easier and you know this it’s much easier to find highend Talent just because the Patriots haven’t done it doesn’t mean it’s not easy it’s easy to find a good receiver it should be these days digs was brought in after Allen was drafted that makes your point I’ll make

It for you they said hey we got to get a player for this wild stallion they went and they got digs so that’s a good point by you you need to shoot for the moon and quarterback that’s what I’m saying I just I’m trying to win with

Brock P I just don’t think he’s the moon I think he’s a cardboard moon in the back of an elementary school stage that somebody just hung and everybody’s gonna go running into it so absurd I want you to watch the entire watch the sack cut

Up watch the sack cut up I want you to watch the entire UVA game which I just watched last night watch the NC State game and watch your shoes because you’re gonna throw up on them he he listen he’s not perfect he makes bad decisions and he

Misses wildly at timesh looks like also makes some absurd highend throws where his numbers should be way better this year than they were the number of drops is absolutely absurd again I this is fresh in my mind because I just watched the UVA game where he had

About seven drops on explosive plays he had a touchdown called back because a tight end couldn’t block a blitzing corner without tackling the guy that’s a that’s about a 45 yard throw on a dime to the back corner of the end zone he does things with a team that’s stunk in

A in a scheme that the league thinks stunk that you don’t know if Jaden Daniels could do it this is if we’re comparing these two quarterbacks that to me is a feather in May’s cap is that we’ve seen him in a not so great situation produce really high-end

Results even if it’s not super consistent you didn’t see Jaden Daniels be a high-end quarterback until he was in his second year in the same offense which like that’s that’s what you should do for a quarterback to help him out but he’s going to be going to a new offense

As a pro and be surrounded by two first round receivers that’s Jaden Daniels dropped a four that’s a high-end I’m not saying that but I’m just saying highend offensive environment and it’s really hard to project what it’s going to look like if he comes to New England with no

Offensive line and no receivers at 200 pounds and all of a sudden you’re asking him to scramble around 12 times a game because it’s the only thing you could do offensively and he weighs 200 pounds and he doesn’t like to slide like that that would concern me it would concern me and

He might not I don’t have those same concerns with watch the NC State game uh listen talk about your trade down mock which was fun and well done and I don’t understand how the people who you do radio with from 10 to two don’t get the concept of multiple

Mocks as thought provokers what did you call them thought what what did I call it a thought exercise yeah thought exercise yeah thought exercise uh so my mock this is the Tommy cin Memorial mock um trade down 3 to 11 and 23 and get that future first that’s the Vikings trade that we’re

Talking about and at 11 unfortunately for the Patriots the guys that I think are consider the two top left tackle prospects are gone Olu fashanu from Penn State and Joe Alt from Notre Dame now I might actually like the guy I gave the Patriots at 11 better than

Fashanu because I think he’s just a better player right now fashanu has better traits Troy fanu Tom out of Washington is a elite move great athleticism good enough arm length he’s not a real tall fella he is mat light sized he’s about 64 he’s actually hands shade under

64 hands are fine hands are 10 plus inches so you’re good on that front whereas fashanu just as a aside a little bit of a concern for anybody that hopes the Patriots land Olu fashanu eight and a half inch hands those are Isaiah wissiz and they don’t even crack the

First percentile of tackles that have gone to the combine over the course of the last 25 like an in that’s it’s like a second basement’s glove a little baby like I I measured my hand against 11 and a half inch piece of paper today Tom and

I was about an inch maybe a little bit more than an inch short so I think I have about you go from here to here right you go I I have about 10 inch hands I yeah I think I’ve got maybe a shade under 10 inches and

Um eight and a half inches is T those are little baby D mine’s a little bit bigger than eight but mine is definitely not 11 so you might have 8 and a half inch hands which is fine for a sports writer you’re not being asked to oh the

Nine yeah look at you you’re you’re past eight and a half inches there easy yeah so imagine hands like that trying to latch on to a 270 pound defensive end I don’t know I don’t I don’t like it is that Kyle vanoi on the TV behind

You no it’s Ricky Martin same thing wow he looks fantastic vano the great thing about Kyle vanoi is the number of uh without comment video golf video swings he sends me just sends it him off nothing else I love that oh that looks great send back nine comments on what he

Could do better as I wander out and shoot a 97 can I ask you first what what do you think about that you like that a 6f foot4 tackle with long arms and big hands who’s a good athlete you okay with that yes a tackle okay in a in a tackle

Deep class I defer to The Experts and say that’s a good player meanwhile at 23 they they get a receiver this is a specifically an X receiver this is AD Mitchell Aden I Mitchell out of Texas 6 fo2 205 pounds 43440 blazing speed unbelievable explosiveness was 998th percentile in

The broad jump uh the vertical jump was also absurd this guy’s a freaky freaky athlete good body control Tom if you watch him it looks like he has Pretty Natural hands I think if you talk to Scouts they would say not as consistent as they would like the thing I think

That has him at 23 overall in general and why people are assuming he’ll be a back half of the first round pick as opposed to in this same class with adun and neighbors and Harrison because he does have amazing physical skill the reason he’s not with those guys is

Because he’s just not as consistent as those guys and I think the league is a little curious as to whether or not his engine is going to run hot enough on a play to-play basis at the next level but if it does then you get maybe

A superstar at 23 like I I kind of like that idea all right Phil real quick then they still have a second round pick do they go get penck in your draft and satisfy Roberts need a top rate Young quarterback no no I think if this is

What you’re doing if you’re Elliot wolf you’re doing all you can to provide Robert Craft with evidence that’s Spencer Rattler who’s going to be your third round pick is quote unquote top rate and so you’re gonna come up with the most dynamic highlight package the world has ever

Seen of Spencer Rattler and you’re going to send it directly to Robert Craft’s office and say I know we’re taking him in the third round but he is what you’re looking for Robert don’t worry about it we’re g to go ahead at 34 overall we’re gonna take lad makoni because we really

Need to reshape this entire receiver room and now we got ad Mitchell in the first that’s RX lad makoni is our Z you put him in motion you align him inside you align him outside he ran in the four threes in the 42 he’s got speed to threaten safeties runs great routes and

Now we’ve got pop Douglas or KJ Osborne in the slot and that’s a real NFL caliber receiver room I’ll tell you when I watched lad mcon at the combine and the way he ran the gauntlet absolutely did not deviate from the line at all you talk about precision

And body control it was absolutely incredible to watch because you’d see some of the other receivers wavering back and forth between and they just lad mccon was down the frig line hands catching the entire time um but you can also tell Robert too after you take those three and plus Robert and we’re

Taking Spencer Rattler but we have two first round picks next year right because Minnesota gave you two ones because you’re not making the deal otherwise you have uh you have your first and you have Minnesota’s first for next year so you got lapak coni ad Mitchell and Troy fanu right right just

Checking plus two first for next year right which you can use on Quinn ERS to get up to number number five and take him um it’s a win it’s a win you’re a seven- win team at best this year anyway so don’t go sniffing around even though you

Expect and hope to be in the playoffs you’re gonna struggle the athletic and Chad graph and one of his Sidekicks there their uh NFL writer did a similar exercise and they came up with and I don’t think this is very like likely this proposal was the double move Phil the proposed

Deal number one is the Patriots send number three to Minnie for 11 23 and a 25 third round pick which I don’t think is enough anyway but after they get that the Patriots then shoot back up and give Arizona 11 and 68 which the Patriots have um

Which will be a third rounder this year right 32 64 yeah um and a future pick and with these what’s that no go ahead I’m keep and with these picks the Patriots would take JJ McCarthy at four they would take the tackle Mims they would take your guy makoni and they

Would take uh later on in the draft they did a longer draft um Stover the tight end from Ohio State it’s a double move Mo so at four so I’m trying to keep track and I’m going to work my way through this along with the list at they

Take JJ McCarthy and then they had a pick of 23 they still had 23 they take Mims okay Marius Mims is the tackle out of Georgia yep and then they 34 yep 34 they take makoni and then they take the stubby but productive tight end stobber from Ohio

State listen I I don’t hate that I don’t hate that if they can pull that off that’s a pretty complicated thing to trade down from three when you’re on the clock at three to 11 and then you’d have to have this worked out ahead of time

With your guy Monty awen for where hey we’re shooting right back up to four but we’re going to make it worth your while you’re getting 11 you’re getting future picks as well or picks down the line as well and we end up with our quarterback a tackle and a receiver with three picks

In the top 34 I don’t hate it the Patriots would have to give up more than that to get back up from from 11 though they can’t give 1168 in a future pick to Arizona for FL they’d have to give they might have to give the second the

Other first round pick that’s what they would have to do they’d have to give the 2025 first round pick that they would have siphoned off of Minnesota right not in this deal because they don’t have them getting a first round pick but again I base the Patriots trading down

On getting two picks this year a swap of picks at an extra first round pick and next year a number one what if the next year pick is a number two because that’s closer to what the niners gave up to get that Miami Dolphins pick to to draft

Trade Lance in terms of the the trade charts and the points and how they all stack up that’s a closer match I think I would be more inclined 55 45 to stay put and take the quarterback because I think that your Mobility with having two first

Round picks next year is so much more enhanced you’re Minnesota Minnesota can get into the top Patriots are probably going to have you know between five and 15 easily as a their own first round pick and Minnesota probably not going to be that high either so ideally the

Patriots could have two top eight picks you don’t to suck this year but let not be on the realm I think Min I think Minnesota might not be that bad even if it’s Drake May Drake May with Justin Jefferson and Jordan Addison OB baby oh baby that’s all I’ll

Say all right um we’ve gone a half an hour here doing all the things we tend to do babbling on folks we are having a blast with the spitballing and I know that you know there’s probably somebody out there like my god get here we kind of feel the

Same way but we’re trying to find and create new content every single time make sure you listen Phil’s uh next Pats podcast where he is continuing to Plum the conversation about head coach as he did with Sebastian vulmer and the prospects of Gerard Mayo success and Phil is constantly talking to experts

Around the NFL and The Scouting game is trying and get Intel um Phil that’s gonna be a wrap for today’s pod I appreciate you you’re doing a great job by the way on on uh Sports up appreciate you too thank you for saying that um

Yeah it’s fun just to get get to yell at somebody not named Tom Karen it’s unbelievable did you hear me I did yell at you today I got fired up today on the Pod yeah today you don’t remember that I was screaming at you earlier yeah no I

Remember I didn’t think it was that I mean it’s because you were getting frustrated because I was right and you were wrong no you were you were making so let’s bring this whole thing full circle now making arguments in bad faith no I wasn’t I asked you why not get the wide receiver

Offensive tackle first and that you know you basically said Patrick Mahomes and Josh Allen and Joe Barrow are good because they have Elite receivers which I don’t disagree it does it it doesn’t hurt those guys are good players those are good players yeah Jaylen Herz is a

Good player too he’s also a Super Bowl quarterback as was garolo because of the receivers and the guys around him it’s a little easier to get one than the other that’s all I’m saying because of where you are I don’t know if it is all right it’s

Easier to get one than the other there’s like there’s like 45 good receivers in football there’s like 10 good quarterbacks simple math yeah but you didn’t think Brock py was a good quarterback before this year or maybe he’s fine these guys pop up quarterback tree there’s a quarterback

Tree I’m going to sit by the quarterback tree see you Bye