What if Caleb Williams is a BUST? Should Pats consider picking Marvin Harrison Jr? NFL Draft Mailbag

#PickSixPodcast #WithTheFirstPick #NFLDraft #2024NFLDraft #Draft #2024NFLMockDraft #MockDraft #CalebWilliams

Ryan Wilson and Rick Spielman answer questions from the With the First Pick mailbag. Is Caleb Williams as good as advertised or are we ignoring obvious flaws? Is Rome Odunze being slept on? Should the Patriots select Marvin Harrison Jr. 1st and then a QB like Michael Penix Jr. or Bo Nix in the 2nd round? Can Spencer Rattler turn into a franchise quarterback? All that and more answered on this edition of the WTFP mailbag. Plus, the guys tackle prospect ratings that were requested in 5-star Apple Podcast reviews.

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4:30 Mailbag
43:00 Prospect Reviews

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Today on with the first pick we’re opening up the old mailbag and we’ll also hit some festar reviews as nominated by you guys I’m Ryan Wilson that’s Rick Spielman this is episode 138 and Rick before we get going how many days until the 2024 NFL draft there are

Can you believe it almost less than a month 31 days left until the 2024 NFL draft all right do you want me to ask you or you going to ask me who’s your best most famous number 31 was there a safety from Pittsburgh that war 31 there

You go Mr Donnie shell I didn’t check and I’m bad this is on me where did Donnie sh go to college uh alorn state is that right I don’t know I thought it was a small school he was a small school guy for sure let’s see I think it’s

South Carolina state oh Debo South Carolina state there you go yep orangeberry there we go Teamwork Makes the Dream work yeah I didn’t have to look that one up I South Carolina state I got to confirm because people get angry when you mess those up y all right by the way

Mentioned this last podcast steo is making a push here Rick we’d really appreciate it if you could take a second hit the old like button leave a comment and subscribe to the show shows the bosses that folks like what we do and allows us to do things like hop in the

Old with the first pick RV hit another Pro Day Tour which reminds me Rick after this show you’re packing up the old hitchhiking backpack GNA thumb your way over to uh F FTF WTF headquarters we’re going to get in the RV going to Baton Rouge then we’re going to Chapel Hill

Yeah circling back we’ll be doing podcast from Baton Rouge for sure we’ll see about Chapel Hill but we’ll definitely recap to Drake May um podcast all is uh all this to say please support the channel by hitting the yeah maybe we can upgrade over the pinto we used last

Year yeah the right I don’t even know if people know what Pinos are anymore uh they were a fire hazard that’s all you need to know um but anyway hit the like button subscribe leave a comment do all those things that would be greatly appreciated and uh Rick before we get

Going here the old mailbag and some five star reviews I’ll ask you quickly two most important things you want to see from LSU one for LSU and one for UNCC what do you want to see I want to see them participate oh boy so I hope Jaden

Daniels steps on the scale I’d like to get the verified weight which shouldn’t be an issue uh and I like to I can’t wait to see Neighbors run hopefully he runs because I think if he runs fast that he may be nipping at the heels of Marvin Harrison Jr because Marvin

Harrison Jr elected not to do anything so uh but I’m anxious to see Jaden Daniels throw in person and then we’ll get a chance to compare him to the Drake May throwing in person the very next day so I love going to these Pro days cuz

Does a lot of things that you can’t verify on tape you can definitely verify when you watch them in person and unlike Pete prisco who doesn’t get anything out of prod days that’s why he doesn’t go to him he would understand if he did go to

A prod day I would teach him to learn the game and learn about what you actually watch at prod days yeah last year we saw CJ stoud Bryce young will L us back to back to back so we got a sense we knew who was going to have the biggest

Arm but we got a see them throw um within 48 Hours of one another and that helps that helped tremendously and then we uh went the following week to watch uh our man Anthony Richardson down in Florida if he hadd gone first we probably would have canceled the rest of the prod Day

Tour because he was pretty impressive in person yeah they all were uh and but that’s some of the flaws that we saw in in will Lis we saw show up in some of the games this year that he played yeah and uh none of the flaws that we saw and

Bryce showed up he looked great this pro day yeah so um the other lesson Brian branon running this pro day after running the 458 and maybe that changes things but again we put too much but he looked very smooth in the drills very smooth jir Gibbs looked like he was from

Another planet in his little drills that he did he didn’t do everything but he did enough and verifi what we’ve seen on tape you get a sense Paris Johnson Jr on the plus danan Jones on the minus who didn’t work out yeah so it all matters Rick it all matters

All right let’s get to some of these mailbag questions and we’ll do some five star reviews after that I purposely did not open up deo’s email so I’m anxious to see how hard these questions are uh going to be because I know our listeners out there are very in

Tune to some very difficult questions and actually I would say more difficult than the last time we did the mailbag then when I had to stand in front of the media and take questions from the media look at that Deo he’s buttering up our our viewers and our

Listeners good thinking Rick that media class is paying off all right let’s do it at worb 24 asks a lot of pressure worb 24 Rick has set the stage pretty high here why do evaluators primarily TV personality seem to discount or ignore the obvious and significant flaws in Caleb Williams game fumbles misreads

Inaccuracy in the strike zone and lack of anticipation are all over his tape even in 2022 he do doesn’t have Elite size or athletic ability but people keep acting like he’s Andrew Luck which is laughable giving luck had every trait imaginable I’ll let you go first wow you’re coming out the gate

Strong you’re coming out hot yeah uh I do agree with some of the flaws in Caleb I disagree I think he’s a great athlete I think uh with his ability to move around in the pocket I think the different angles and the way he torqus his body to make some throws like he

Does reminded me some of the way Andrew Luck torqued his body and made some throws Andrew Luck was not a perfect Prospect either when you go back and I bet you look at the reports on him coming out in the draft there were flaws there I agree with Caleb Williams does

Have to have better ball Security in the pocket that was one of the issues that we talked about is the fumbles in the pocket because he doesn’t have two hands on the ball and he’s always looking for the shots down the field because he was in shootouts now I know teams will meet

With him they will talk through a lot of this what was he thinking here why did he go here why did he go there but he had a horrendous defense the offensive line was poorest to say the least so the only way that he probably felt and I’m

Just assuming because we didn’t talk to him about it on stage uh is that he was trying to overcompensate for the flaws with the rest of the team and the only way they had a chance to win a lot of these games was to get the shoot out and

For him to take the big shots down the field hence he holds on to the ball too long in the pocket instead of taking what’s given there that stuff should be correctable with coaching I think it’ll be addressed a lot uh with these teams or couple teams that he’s meeting with

To see where he’s at I know some of the sources in the background do not have an issue with him and him getting through his progressions they think he’s going to be a great Pro uh when he starts running that type of system and like I said I’ve seen some unique Aaron Rogers

Type throws uh with how he can be off balance and still be accurate in the arm Talent is is is undeniable when you watch it on tape and he’s told us that Aaron Rogers was sort of who he pattered his game after not the obvious uh Patrick Mahomes which you always went to

So I’ll go through this quickly worb 24 says um fumbles yeah holding on to the ball long I think trying to make things happen that those things happen Miss reads I will say I did make a note that sometimes he passes up the easy read on

Like a shallow in front of him to try to make a big play down the field I think those things as you knowe you can correct those things it’s probably easier to do that than the opposite right if guy just kepts chck checking the ball down you’d like him to push the

Ball down the field that’s a little tougher to coach him up in in accuracy in the strike zone I don’t know I think he’s pretty accurate all three levels so I’m not sure about that yeah no I I think he’s a very accurate thrower uh whether he sets his feet or not couple

Of times he’ll Force throws which may not look accurate because he’s throwing in the coverage and you know go back to the notor you Dame those are all three inaccurate throws in the first half yeah those were poor throws but if you look at the Grand pitcher overall he is much

More accurate than inac inaccurate as a thrower and lack of anticipation I thought he threw with a good amount of anticipation I didn’t have any issue with the anticipation throws yeah no we’re going to talk about one of the five-star reviews and some of the throws

He made to this young lad at in the slot was very impressive on accuracy and uh you see him get the ball out of his hands on time on occasion and how he throws to the open area so the receiver he’s not thrown to the receiver he’s

Thrown to the area at times which you’re going to have to do in the NFL and you see those receivers giving the receivers a chance to make plays but I think it’s unfair to say that uh he is not an thrower or he’s not a good athlete uh or

The elite size that’s a fair point I get it yeah but how many of these quarterbacks are six4 in Pocket passers anymore there’s not no I get it I get it when you look at guys coming out are are different than they were five or six

Years ago when you look at my favorite website mockdraftable oncom and just Compares measurables Caleb came in at 61 and an eth 214 at the combine and the the closest measurables are Chase Daniel who was undrafted he was 6 feet Tim Beck sha King from back in the day went to

Lane Malik Willis Kade Macau bayy sappy so those are a little different and but those aren’t the same athlete not the same athlete Malik is a probably a better athlete but not the football player uh do you remember Andrew Lux siiz coming out 63 maybe 64 234 yeah he

Was I don’t remember being that big yeah he ran a 467 had a 36 inch vertical yeah he was a freak athlete he was special his comps are Josh Allen physically speaking Josh Allen bla Gabbert Cam Newton Justin Herbert so right the the quarterback’s size and shape has changed

A little bit the last few years um all right at word 24 thank you for the question came out hot on that one yep all right next up at mv1 12267 how far back will Caleb Williams set the Bears back when he becomes a bust I didn’t read the question I read

The question in real time so that’s one of those things where I didn’t see that coming well if he’s a bust it’s going to set the Bears back a long a long way yeah no because if they take him the number one overall pick they trade away Justin

Fields um if they don’t get this right then it’s going to set them back for at least five or six years because all right let me turn the qu let me turn the tables on you then are the Carolina Panthers set back five or six years because they didn’t take CJ stad

No one and like I said we’ve talked about that and I’ve talked to some people about that that uh were in the building and said that he was Dr they gave him too much so it’s how you handle these guys coming out but if Caleb Williams is a bus which

I don’t think he will be then it’ll be probably five or six years before they’ll be able to recover from this type of uh bust especially when you have the number one overall pick I it is curious and I wonder if this is a college thing in terms of college fandom

Or if this is a you’re fan of another team that’s not Chicago and historically Chicago hasn’t been very good but I do wonder why people think Caleb’s going to fail because I don’t know what I get the hype around the player sometimes that’s not the player’s fault but it is sort of

Strange sometimes that people are convinced that a player’s going to fail based on the same things everyone’s watching it looks like he’s probably gonna be successful yeah I mean that’s what you’re and it’s still subjective decision everybody’s subjective so um but the number one overall pick I don’t

Think anyone’s arguing he shouldn’t be the number one overall pick right now now maybe that changes I doubt that after we get through our little tour this week coming up um but if he is a bust which you’re not going to know for three years anyway before you can you

Know say that he is a bust Steelers new in two years with Kenny picket just saying well sorry de yeah but was it him or was it you know that they handle the right way with they so I want to ask about sorry I want to ask about like a couple

Previous number one overall pick quarterbacks you can decide if you want to label them a bust or not but if they set their organizations back Trevor Lawrence Joe burrow no 2019 Kyler Murray no I don’t think so what do you think Rick I I wouldn’t say that yet because they got to the

Playoffs with him they they’re sticking with him now and they’re sticking with him now but when they got to the playoffs his issue was he performed poorly once they got into the playoffs but he got him to the playoffs and again is Baker oh yeah you have to say because

He’s not with Cleveland anymore he is he was a bust in Cleveland I don’t think Cleveland helped him out though but he he was a bust he got into the playoffs once they won a playoff game um but you know what I’m hearing here Debo Rick’s

Tight with Kevin so he doesn’t want to throw Kevin under the bus I thought they were so I I thought it was a marriage that wasn’t going to work out that last year I I said it was a bus because he’s not there anymore and it took five years you know

They made that one playoff appearance then five years with a journeyman quarterback to get back to the playoffs uh 2016 Jared gof didn’t totally work out but they won a Super Bowl within five years yeah they got to the Super Bowl and L and then they won a couple

Years later with Matthew Stafford but you how can you say Jared go is a bust for what he’s doing in Detroit right now because I don’t think Detroit would be where they are at right now without Jared GF I agree with that I don’t think he was a bus in Al L

He he was drafted by Jeff fiser and then Jeff Fischer got fired Sean mcveay came in and I thought he was still grow and that’s the other thing quarterbacks aren’t who they’re supposed to be in day one of their NFL career people get impatient with that now was he the best quarterback for

No Matthew Stafford’s better than Jer go in LA but I think you could argue that the trade has one of the few trades that’s worked out for both sides pretty clearly right these guys as number one picks rank them in terms of just how successful they’ve been as number one

Overall picks gol Baker Kyler gol Kyler Baker yeah with the with the teams they started with I think that’s right I’m not even saying the teams they started with just their their careers to point in time okay so Rick if you’re starting a team tomorrow which guy you rolling with golf Kyler

Baker you’re not taking why are you taking Kyler over Baker uh because Baker was he had a great year last year but let’s see if he can replicate that even Rick is such a one-year Wonder guy yeah all right yeah the last one I’ll throw out is 2015

Jamus you know again a team that won a Super Bowl when they got rid of their number one overall pick but they didn’t make the playoffs during Jame’s tenure yeah I think I think jamus underachieved yeah he was a bus I don’t know if I call him a bus but I was he

Done has he ever has he ever had a winning record I don’t think so he had a good year with Shawn and then he towards ACL the one after he got to New Orleans but that was like for four or five games yeah I mean if he’d been a second

Round pick you’d be like okay this that’s great but if you’re the first overall pick you expect a little more all right fair enough threw for 30 touchdowns and 30 interceptions in one season that’s pretty sick yeah not everyone not everyone can do that Rick all right next up yeah basically a

Lot of pressure to be the number one overall pick I think is the lesson there Cameron Rubio 3959 ask Rick Michael pennix Jr was led by incredible Staffing and an equally impressive collection of offensive weapons without the staff and the team will he be able to compete at

The same level in the NFL uh that’s a fair question because lot of times these players go from good teams to Super terrible teams in the NFL and the results don’t match what they had in college yeah but these Staffing now at the NFL level they have 20 plus coaches

On their coaching staff now with all the quality controls and the assistance to the assistant coaches so I think the staffs have definitely increased uh over the last 10 years I had a uh Pete burich who is the play byplay with Paul Allen the Minnesota Vikings he was down here on spring break

And we went to dinner with him the other night and he said when he was coaching up in Minnesota I think their staff was nine now every coaching staff I would imagine is 20 plus so there’s more than enough there just like the colleges the colleges are different because they have

8,000 analysts also on there and then but their player Personnel departments they all have Tech like de facto GMS now because of the transfer portal and everything that’s going on 24/7 12 months a year in the college uh which is totally Bizarro land and ruining college football in my opinion but that’s a

Whole another discussion you’re burning your bridges for an opportunity to get a GM job in college I quite D you yeah I’m fine I’ll be okay so look I think Cameron’s asking this question Cameron deor uh Kell deor was great at his job uh you have a bunch of first and second

And third round receivers you going have a lot of guys getting drafted on the offensive line had a the Panthers had a staff full of quote unquote great coaches it didn’t work out last year for a number of reasons for Bryce so when you go to a bad football team as a if

He’s a top 15 pick for example how does that transition work for a guy who’s used to accustom having success in college yeah I think that that you know see like if he ended up with the Raiders let’s say for example okay they still have uh Devonte Adams which I think would be

A better player than what was throwing to in college let at least you know you’re project projecting a dun but I don’t know if he’ll be Devonte Adams you know okay for whatever reason you know wi Renfro wasn’t what he was a couple years ago whether how they used them or not um

Then they they signed a receiver from New England Kobe Myers and Trey Tucker who we talked a lot about last year’s a rookie yeah so I think it’s just the parody and I think the biggest adjustment for the quarterbacks is the defense and okay the defenses that

They’re facing and how good is that offensive line so if they’re struggling up front um then what are the coaches doing to try to hide that weakness to give the Young quarterback the best chance to hopefully have success so well I don’t want to scare you Rick but as I’m

Looking at the roster here their current starting Right Guard is DJ Fluker yeah that’s not good they got to so they got to figure some things out yeah but that’s just an example if he ended up there now the yeah yeah no I was just curious as I was looking that up but

Right the transition usually isn’t easy and I think more obviously the the Personnel around you is important but as you note the defense and and getting up to speed with the speed of the defense and the complexity of the defense is what determines how quickly you assimilate it seems like yeah yeah and

That’s the that’s the critical part of this and you’re’ seeing CJ strout get better towards the end of the year and the way he played um we didn’t see that in Bryce um but I think it is like I said the biggest thing to me whether I’m

Right or wrong is that you have to get familiar with the system and the thing Michael penck Jr and we saw it in the national championship game against Michigan when they were coming after him did he have the answers to where to go with the ball when it was hot or a lot

Of times the quarterback if they have a scat protection or some kind of fiveman protection up front if one guy is coming free he has to have the answer to that hot yep and it didn’t look like he did uh in that game so those are things that

You learn but you learn them over time and you learn them when you’re in the same system but when you change systems all the time you don’t know where all the answers to the test are when certain things break down right incidentally the deos Philadelphia Eagles had very little

Answers for for Hots either which was a weird Wild Thing last year that didn’t make any sense um that’ll change with their new offens of coordinator dbo you’ll be fine don’t worry about it all right take a quick break and we come back gonna continue and that will be wi

Mall’s third offensive coordinator in three years yeah Jaylen Herz Shane syken Brian Johnson and uh Kell Moore yep Kell Moore might end up being we’ll see if he’s as good as Shane Sten that’s a home run but I think Debo’s happy that the uh the previous staff has been turned over

All right when we come back we’ll talk more about these mailback questions including a question about New England and wide receivers and Roman dun right after this it’s time for the madness and CVS Sports HQ has your wall to–all NCAA tournament coverage we got your game highlights expert analysis and insights

All the way to the final four start and end your March Madness coverage CBS Sports HQ all right Rick we’re rolling on at gray Den 582 asks what New England Fair better with Marvin Harrison Jr and Michael pennick Jr get the Juniors on the squad together or Drake May or Jane

Daniels and an early second round receiver like a Troy Franklin for example or maybe ad Mitchell if he’s there what makes the most sense in your mind take the quarterback first because I think there’s a drop off between the top three uh and the and and Michael penck

Jr and receivers there’s a pretty good history of receivers having success that aren’t taken that high late in the first round second round third round there’s plenty of talent and this is the one of the most talented receiver classes that I’ve seen in a long time so I would say

Make sure you got the quarterback secured first and then pick up the uh receiver and the weapons behind them and by the way ad Mitchell could be a realistic second round possibility because they picked 34 yep so even if you trade up two or three spots a really good receiver there’s a

Lot more receivers are going to be really good players in this league than there are quarterbacks yeah no I agree with that I think you take the quarterback that you you love and then the receivers the other thing about Michael um Marvin Harrison Jr excuse me whether he’s the

First wide receiver or not and you mentioned this that you read this somewhere that he had spoken to Arizona so he’s going to be the first wide receiver taken of Arizona was fine with him not working out at his pro day unless Arizona trades out unless Arizona

Trades out in which case if you trade up for Malik neighbors godspeed I love Malik neighbors but if you’re trading up for giving up the farm hopefully it’s probably for trading up for a quarterback right that’s my point so Marvin still could go first all right next

Up Sean emans 6436 why is Roman dun not projected to go earlier the man could genuinely be a franchise Cornerstone wide receiver before we know it and you could very much be right J Justin Jefferson went pick 20 when did Justin Jefferson get drafted uh I can’t remember if we were 22 23

Yeah fifth wide receiver off the board after somebody that the Eagles stft that we got to quit bring it up because TBO gets depressed you just don’t know right yeah no I think he’s gonna be a really good Pro and um but Marvin Harrison Jr is unique because of uh everything we’ve

Talked about him and I think Malik neighbor speed and his ability with the ball in his hands after the catch is pretty unique uh and then I think adun is maybe not as explosive of an athlete although he’s going to be a really good uh receiver than neighbors is uh and I

Think Marvin Harrison Jr is smoother than adun is but I think adun is going to be has potential to be a really really good receiver as well who’s more explosive of dun or Marvin Harrison Jr I I think Marvin Harrison Jr okay I think it’s close but again we talk about this

With the offensive tackles with the cornerbacks with the edge rushers the wide receivers they’re all lump together you could put draw a name out of a hat and you’re probably gonna hit a home run well B based on their college production off their college production yeah yeah but I think that as

People and they’re in their draft meetings now and or they’re at the league meetings now but then when they come back for their April draft meetings they’ll finalize that board because you’ll have the rest of the answers that you’re looking looking for by the time these Pro days are done and all the

Other uh inary tests and Medicals that you do to start stacking these guys but if they’re all clean and everybody checks the boxes I think all three of those guys will be home run picks I think they’ll be all be very good Pros I think I asked you this last week but I

Can’t remember the answer so the first wide receiver off the board last year was 20th Jackson Smith and jiga how many of these wide receivers are gone before pick 20 I would say three for sure maybe four four okay because sometimes they get pushed down because they’re quote-unquote wide receivers and the

Class is so deep y y y I think four top three for sure yeah I think the top three are definitely top 15 prospects you don’t know how the whatever’s gonna happen is gonna happen in terms of the trade-ups and the run on certain positions all right you g do a dollar

Bet on that the three go before 20 yeah I get three I say three and you say you’re going to be four I’ll say no I’ll say it’ll be three I say it won’t be three how about that you don’t think three receivers will go in the top 20 I

Don’t I’m just concerned run give me the dollar now okay Debo write that down just it’s is that a Bad Bet Debo yes all right I’m gonna take not three go before that’s your worst one that’s your worst yeah last for Kansas City when people killed you for grah Barton

This is worse than that oh it’s worse than that oh my goodness all right Well w 100 pennies coming your way Rick look man if there’s a run on cornerbacks Edge rushers quarterbacks are you saying that dude is going to fall out of the top 20

Is what you’re saying no he’s gonna get drafted by the Steelers at 20 the top 19 before pick 20 okay I I I’ll double down and say that he’s not there when the Steelers are there at 20 top 19 okay all right well if that means me giving you a

Dollar for me to wish the Steelers in a dunesday a happy marriage and I’m willing to to eat that dollar all right all right the lesson there Shawn Emmons is that Roman D is a really good really really really good player and outside of Jen Daniels I don’t think there’s anyone

Who’s he’s done a lot to help himself I should say I’m sure there’s some other names but in terms of 22 to 23 he was great now we get to the meat of the questions here pmf DD 3325 asks could Spencer Rattler turn into a franchise caliber

Quarterback if he can go to a team that helps him with the late game decisions that make Rick so angry so let’s say he goes to San Francisco and San Francisco moves on from Brock p in two years because they don’t want to pay him is

That a good landing spot for him anyone that’s coming out of that system would be the best whether it’s the Rams whether it’s the 49ers I I would say even Minnesota Minnesota Houston if they want to cut CJ stad and sign Spencer Rattler is an option yeah the

Dollar on that too I mean that may be a better bet than the last one you made all right so here’s the thing if that’s the if the Shawn McVey Cal shanan coaching tree is a big part of the answer why are other teams stubborn to

Go in that direction or is it just more difficult than just saying all right sign someone from difficult than that okay yeah because I don’t know if Brock py would be Brock pie if he wasn’t in San Francisco yeah and that’s no disrespect to Brock py but put him on

The Steelers for example with Matt Canada dialing up plays and he probably wishes he was in Philadelphia as well right yeah no they have to be in the right system and the right fit and the right coaching and if Spencer does get in that right area then I think he has a

Chance it’s just got it because there’s no question about the throwing and everything like that it’s just if he’s not in the right situation he’s going to fail yeah and it sounds obvious but I mean we see it every single year it happens yep uh all right I I think I’ve

Asked this before too but if Matt Jones had gotten drafted third overall instead of Trey Lance he’s probably doing a little better in San Francisco than he would than he did in New England maybe that’s uh Jesus can you imagine if he was just as bad yeah that would be bad

He would have to be better he feels like the not the perfect new school version of what Shane Han looking is looking for but sort of the kurk cousins mold of what Shanahan loved about Kurt Cousins in Atlanta or in Washington excuse me y yeah not Matt Ryan but closer to Kurt

Cousins although as you know Kurt Cousins is a pretty good athlete we don’t give them enough credit all right great news Spencer Rick is on board finally at Ian Newberry ask I have a question about TZ Walker before the Senior Bowl I was seeing him

As a top six to eight wide receiver I know he struggled with the drops of the Senior Bowl but the combine was really good he tested out through the roof of the combine I’m now seeing him in the wide receiver 13 to 18 range have we swung too far with him I’m assuming

Swung too far in the other direction that he may get drafted too low so where the the the Senior Bowl was there were a few tougher senior bowls that seen in in recent years about just in terms of the the mental trying to overcome those mental drops I’m assuming

They’re mental I’m trying to look where I have him what was your take on sort of the fluctuations between January and now about where TZ Walker is I don’t think it’s that deep of a swing I still think he’ll be a Friday guy um I think the biggest thing with him there’s no

Question about the athleticism there’s no question about his ability to take the top off of coverage with his speed I think the route refinement needs a lot of work I think just the nuances of the game and learning the game is going to take time um but the the Senior Bowl was

A bad impression he did catch the ball better I would give him at the combine could he have caught it worse huh could he have caught it worse at the combine no but he he extended he made some nice catches at the combine I think I’m

Anxious to see him catch the ball and I’m see anxious to see him run routes in person on Thursday at North Carolina’s pro day so that I think you’re you’re taking him 13 to8 I still think he may be one of the top 10 receivers off the board 61 and a half

193 436 of the combine and then the 40 and a half inch vertical is all my numbing because that’s that’s some true athleticism I have them I talk to a team that has a Midday Three I have them right now in the fourth round I’m going

To name some T some some players and if you’ve seen them you can tell me whether you would take TZ Walker or this player as a wide receiver um Jermaine Burton you’re taking Jermaine Burton I would imagine yeah Ricky peera yes Roman Wilson yes uh Javon Baker no I’m taking TZ okay jaquin

Jackson the smallest slot guy to two lane I’m taking uh TZ oh okay interesting now I’ve seen this I haven’t confirmed it so take this with a grain of salt Marcus rosemy Jack s who we both like I saw he ran a 486 at his pro day

I’ll double check but if that number holds that’s a problem yeah that’s a huge problem he’s a free agent then okay uh have you seen bub mean yet out of pit we talked about him um no okay Jacob Coen the slot guy to Arizona yeah he’s but those guys are I

Think three third down guys little slots yeah are they in the same bucket when you’re doing your tiers I think TZ is an outside guy okay all right here’s a good one uh Brendan rice USC Brendan rice probably is not as explosive as an athlete or is gifted

With the ball in his hands after the catch so I would go I think TZ has more upside okay and one last name I’ll mention Johnny Walker Johnny Walker you need some Johnny Walker Johnny Wilson you need Johnny Walker when you watch Johnny Wilson I’m taking TZ because he’s

More explosive of an athlete yeah I agree and there’s been some conversation about putting some weight on Johnny Wilson and maybe making him like a Jawan Johnson type we’ll see how that plays out all right and to your point we’ll see TZ in a couple days and I’m sure if

He runs he’s going to run fast and I think we’ll be more interested in watching them run the routes all right at Jeff boroli I think it’s how you pronounce it Jeff if not my apologies who benefits more from a trade with Minnesota Arizona or the Chargers so the Chargers are at five

Arizona is at 4 Minnesota’s at 11 and 23 so so Arizona just uh we did this as our sort of mock draft for CBS Sports Network with the bmac if Arizona trades with Minnesota they’re getting they’re going to have three first round picks and Los Angeles who is now in

Their new offense with Jim Harbaugh and uh who offensive coordinator that used to be with the the Ravens he’s Roman uh yeah Greg Roman Greg Roman’s there now so it’s gonna be a runhe heavy situation and they’ll have pick five pick uh 11 and pick 23 as well so we’ll have three

First round picks as well whoever Trad is going to have three first round picks is my point all right go ahead yeah I would say uh either of them Because Chargers have I can’t even name a receiver besides Quinton Johnson under Ros they have Josh Palmer and Josh Palmer and Darius Davis who’s the slot return guy who’s pretty small more of a gadget guy yeah and that’s it see me a foco foko who used to who was drafted by

The cowboys he’s out of Stamford and that’s it so four receivers the roster yeah and then Arizona can feel a lot of defensive needs uh and get also another receiver they could stretch the field because Hollywood Brown is in Kansas City now uh they traded uh Rondell Moore

Uh well let me ask you this way Hannah which team benefits from this trade the most in terms of being a playoff team next year oh then I would go with the Chargers because of the quarterback that division’s that division may not even be tougher they’re both pretty

Tough divisions yeah okay yeah it’s close I think you’re right I think it is close well these are the questions that you’re having if you’re those teams and if you’re Minnesota trying to figure out how to get up there I think the biggest burden is the Vikings the the risk and

You talk pointed about this whoever you’re taking there you’re giving up probably three first rounders and something for the same quarterback position that the other three teams are just going to trade give up a first- round pick for for Caleb and Jaden and Drake presumably all right all right Nikki

Cc20 fan from Scotland no sticky Wicked Impressions this time please thank you for that Nikki no idea what that is I when I was over there that was a little bit of Sticky Wicket you know I love that uh Nikki from Scotland has no idea what you’re talking about that’s

Hysterical he’s a commanders fan though hoping uh they take Legette rice or or Troy Franklin the wide receivers but expecting an edge early round two just taking a quarterback in round one change how you assess the rest of the draft building around with protection and

Weapons for him or do you focus on the overall team that’s a good question yeah no I think they’ve done a really good job uh signing a lot of guys a lot of guys that the new coaching staff is familiar with you know even Eckler coming in to team up with Robinson in

The back field all the defensive guys that they were able to to sign um I still think they have pretty good receivers so I think that if they get their quarterback in place they will lean you know towards a defense they can still use offensive line help so I don’t

Think they’ll be I think they go what follow the truly follow their draft board on best players and how they’re ranked on their draft board and just continue to build they try to fill a lot of holes in free agency but I think they’re in a position with all the

People people that they signed or all the players that they signed in free agency that they can after they get their quarterback they can just truly follow the board on how they have that board stack they have done a really good job in free agency at least on paper

They bolster the interior offensive line they got Tyler botes and Nick Alig gry Garden Center Zack hers adds some depth there he’s a little older but he still adds depth you miss you mentioned Austin Eckler CLE frell the former first round pick adds depth along the uh at the edge

Rust position position after they trade away their two guys Bobby Wagner Frankie louu might be an underrated signing from Carolina he’s a really good player that was in a program that a lot of people weren’t paying attention to Jeremy chin as well and then Michael Davis adds depth in the secondary he’s currently

Listing thee of Emanuel for don’t forget about that is it atrey that they signed from Dallas the the pass rusher is an underrated pass rusher dorrence Armstrong and Dante Fowler Jr Armstrong okay dorren Armstrong from Dallas that’s right so they filled a lot of holes with veteran players um so that that gives

Them the freedom to follow their their B their draft board just truly on how they have that draft board stacked and those those trades at the trade deadline they sent Montes sweat and Chase young out of town they now have the second pick the 36th pick the

40th pick from Chicago the 67th pick and the 78th pick so they’re they’ll make some hay they’re Prime to turn this thing around you got to get the quarterback right as they always say but um they’re they’re in an enviable spot thank you for that Nikki what do you want me to do

Uh X next Frankenstein that’s German okay well then our our German fans can pipe up and say they don’t know what you’re talking [Laughter] about oh my gosh I wish I could remember that the one of the someone made a joke that you look like some villain from a

Movie I have to remember which one it is you did it like a movie villain all right Sha pack 51 asks can scheme culture ruin a player or they just destined to be a bust well I mean I don’t want to I think Brock P’s an example of right being in the right

Situation I don’t know if he been a he might have been a bust somewhere else but I think that happens all the time right yeah I think scheme and in cultures is definitely have to be a fit for example if there’s let’s say uh travante sweat who’s a big to me two

Down nose tackle that’s going to fit really well in an odd front where he can play Zero nose or over top the center now if you’re put him in a Tampa scheme or a one Gap scheme getting up field then he’s going to fail so to me it’s a

Combination either you misevaluated a player but more than likely if you don’t fit the player with the scheme or the coaches don’t adjust the scheme to what the player does best then that’s where you end up having the bus yeah or like a a Debo samel for example if you just

Make him solely a a deep threat like you’re not getting the most out of his abilities Shan Shanahan’s the easy answer even puka AA put n misuse puka AA and he’s probably not setting all these records and we’re not giving you a hard time about puka you you would have been

Right yeah well I wasn’t he was a fifth round pick I didn’t put him in the first round he should have been in the first round okay who are you angry at who are you more angry at puka AA or Kobe Turner Kobe Turner is they’re both very good football players

Okay Kobe Turner is a very good inline pass rusher he gets mashed at the point versus the run but he fits the scheme and that’s why both of those guys and give credit to the ram staff Sean McVey Raheem Morris for finding out what these guys do best and putting them in the

Right scheme to put a highlight on their strengths not their weaknesses all right in a redraft would you take either of them top 50 be honest no what do what do they have to do I got to see what else was in the top 50 uh great news if you’re a Kobe Turner

Fan uh our buddy li doel who is the biggest Kobe Turner fan will be joining us in a few weeks to talk defensive lineman and we’ll no doubt bring that up so cut that Debo we’ll make a note and Rick hopefully you don’t respond the same way you responded when

Spencer Rattler called you out in person you’ll stand up for yourself this time with myself all right we’ll take a quick break and we’ll hit these five star reviews right after this you came down here to tell us that your date is missing I did not get

Ghosted I think he was taken you were dating as a way to face your divorce was I really the only thing holding you together D damn ready or not I am in search of a man with whom I had a beautiful connection You Can’t Hide if anything feels off we’ll go off off

Murder who are you diara Diara all right Rick let’s hit some of these five star reviews we haven’t talked about uh these players in a while and if you’re new to this just leave a five star review on Apple podcast of an FBS or FCS player who was draft eligible we’re getting down the stretch now we

Might have to start looking into the 2025 draft but leave a a player and we will review that player player on an upcoming episode so we got a couple names here we’re going to get through here start with Jaylen Ford linebacker for the Longhorns 62

240 33 and a half inch vert didn’t run his 40 at the combine I don’t think Texas I haven’t seen the pro day numbers I don’t think he he ran as Pro Day either but I’ll check either way uh he’s he’s sort of an Old School linebacker

And that he’s a little thicker I thought he had good athleticism I thought he’s a good tackler in face thought he worked well to get off blocks um thought he could run with tight ends and running backs out of the back field uh had to closing speed to get home

Quickly I wrote my last line intriguing player good athlete want to see more what do you want to see you’re not going to see anymore I guess I gotta go back and watch some more tape maybe that’s maybe that’s a note to me yeah well if you

Would have did your homework over the weekend like I did you would have what not wanted to see more all right did you see enough I’ve seen enough all right what do you think uh I like his size I think he is nonphysical taking on blockers at the point I don’t think he

Has any thump to him you watch the Alabama game he got trolled a couple times when thrown out of the bar whatever you want to call it uh when those guys got up onto him at the second level I think he is a good enough athlete he had the dropped interception

In the red zone that tipped and got Alabama back in the game uh you know the one thing that for a guy that I don’t think runs extremely well I think he is instinctive in coverage I seen him carry some guys down the seam tight ends down

The seam he had six interceptions for his career which is really good uh but I don’t think he’s very consistent finding the ball in line especially when he’s engaged um I just I I think he needs to be more physical for size that’s why I was maybe more disappointed in him than you

Guy that big I think he needs to get come up and and take on blocks better and I think he needs to find the ball off blocks better I don’t think he’s very instinctive once he gets engaged interesting okay I had him as an early

Day three guy is that too rich for you no I think he’ll be a Saturday guy like middle fourth round does that sound right fourth fifth round okay all right all right we came to the same answer just got there differently no no he doesn’t take on blocks show me plays

Where he does take on blocks and then I’ll Cor myself but I’m not all right I’ll show you that afterwards yeah Houston game in particular I didn’t want to embarrass you like that all right let’s talk about a guy that we were that you alluded to earlier in the show talking about Caleb

Williams Taj Washington um 5’9 almost 510 174 35 inch vert I don’t have a time on him but I thought he showed some short a quickness uh in the quick game he can make a Defender Miss near the line of scrimmage thought he had a he catch the

Ball away from his body doesn’t have a big catch rate just he’s a smaller guy but he can catch the ball away from his body thought he had an extra gear in the open field um makes Defenders Miss in the open field sort of the slot receiver

That you probably visualize the comp for me got your squeeze ball out Jameson Crowder he not as fast as Jameson Crowder I don’t know what this guy’s time is well just watch the tape his game speed is not very fast oh boy he’s he’s thinking about that that whooping

He took in in pickle ball Debo he’s having flashbacks Focus Rick F Focus I am I focused all weekend on he’s a receiver that has return value because of his quickness he’s quicker than fast uh he competes uh I thought he was really tough especially coming inside

He’s a very uh corageous guy that will take some shots and hang on to the ball uh I think he can get separation because of his quickness into and out of his Cuts he’s got a very small catching radius he does catch the ball very well

Uh I do question his speed for a small receiver to take the top off coverage I didn’t see him outrun many people in the open field uh when he had space I thought he got gunned down I think he’s going to struggle versus bigger Corners uh at the next level especially

Downfield if he gets in any contested 5050 uh balls now coming inside side he’ll put his I mean he is tough now and he’ll take a shot and go compete for the ball but I don’t see the speed to take the top off of coverage like a tank Del

And I don’t see him winning a lot of 5050 balls downfield especially versus some of these physical Corners yeah but you’re not drafting him to do those things am I right when you draft a smaller guy on the slot you want him to win short short and intermediate right

Yeah but how high are you taking him oh I have him going like a mid to late fifth yeah yeah he’s a he’s a day three guy yeah but I I still like his tape he’s got some return value and I’m not sure that he’s as slow as you think he is he’s

Slow for a small guy I think I think he runs into four FS I think tank only ran in the four fours we but tank plays much faster than that I think it’s the lesson this guy doesn’t play the tank devil speed okay I’ll give you that all right next up Jen

Jones cornerback Florida State almost f almost 6 feet 190 438 good Lord uh I I didn’t love him as as much as some people did 90% slot I thought he moved well laterally in space need to do better as a wrap-up tackler uh he’ll fight through wide receiver blocks to

Get to the tunnel screens quick game uh question is straight line deep speed is what I wrote down here he ran a 438 uh looks like a liability and deep routes so maybe he doesn’t play as fast as he timed but maybe you feel differently has five career interceptions

Um my conf for him in terms of his physical stature was Ronald Derby he’s not as smooth as Ronald Darby yeah I don’t I clearly I don’t love him despite his no but he’s this guy I like his size I think he’s fast straight line um when he has to change direction or

Flip his hips that’s when he loses his gear uh and speed he’s best when he’s coming forward he is tight in the hips uh struggles to mirror in man coverage really can’t mirror any receiver when are getting out of their brakes because of the tightness through his hips um and he’s just late

To the receivers uh he has wasted steps in his transition that need to get cleaned up when he gets extended ver when and where it looks slow is when he gets extended vertically or across the field because he has to change direction if it was just a foot

Race and then you would see his speed uh I I thought he was pretty aggressive coming in support but he’s just out of control because he can’t break down because of the tightness in his hips okay I thought he had some burst off the edge on the blitz too I thought that’s

Where you see his straight line speed when he comes but any change of direction is when he looks slow where are you taking him I have him day three towards the closer to the end than to the beginning of day three yeah everybody will have him in different

Spots because of the speed he had that pick six when I went back and was watching tape this weekend apparently you didn’t do your homework I did the Debo sent over the weekend so I spent all day yesterday watching all these guys you had a pick six in the Southern

Miss game but other than that didn’t see much ball production uh I watched him on February 18th ahead of the combine I don’t like to wait till the last minute to do my homework okay good job for you give like a star yeah give me a gold

Star not a silver star next up cam Hart you were a big fan of hit you talked about him a lot when we did the Senior Bowl podcast and and the HQ hits I mean this is how you build them in the factory 63 202

Pounds 39 and a half inch vertical ran a 45 which is plenty fast I thought he was a little stiffer than seemingly everyone else and what I have to be careful of is that I didn’t love cam Taylor brick coming out cam Taylor Brit is a really

Good player and I saw some similarities in terms of the stiffness coming out of school for him and maybe that’s I’m overcompensating for cam maybe I’m missing something and maybe he ends up being more like that than more like Alani Johnson for example who was a longer quarterback coming out of

Kentucky who never was able to put it together yeah um I like this guy at the Senior Bowl I thought that he can drop his weight for as tall guy as he is and getting into and out of his transition I thought he had some bursts he make some

Plays on balls in the air I think the one thing that really bothered me was I think he needs to be more physical in the Run especially getting off blocks uh but he’s willing as a tackler I think the durability and the shoulders I think he had shoulder surgery on both

Shoulders through his career uh which may be the lack of physicalness at times uh but I thought this guy is a late Friday early Saturday pick because of the size and because of his ability to drop his weight into transition smoothly uh has has a has a

Chance yeah and I think most teams agree with you late Friday maybe early Saturday I have them a little more in the middle of Saturday but we’ll find out next up this guy I like a lot and um I want to hear your thoughts on Dwight mlo the cornerback out of

Arkansas what are you grunting about 61 and a half 185 447 32inch vertical um LSU transfer looked like he had he he was fluid on tape I thought he played like he he understood like the coverages in front of him the LSU game in particular can sink his hip stay in

Phase uh doesn’t fall for double or stutter moves he’s smooth getting out of breakes uh can tackle at the catch Point plastered Neighbors on an inso fade in the last play of game never looked Panic on the Deep throws what you think about Dwight uh really liked his length I

Thought he had natural hands and I thought he showed good ball production and instincts he had two interceptions in the games I watched jumped option routes versus LSU and versus alurn alurn uh I think he’s better in zone and Man Press where he can play routes in front

Of him because I think he anticipates throws and does a nice job there I do question his speed if he has to get out turn his hips and run I saw him get beat deep in the BYU game I think this guy is willing enough uh in run support like to

See him a little grittier at times I think this guy is like a cover type Corner uh that’s best playing the routes in front of him and I do think he has some Natural Instincts to get jump on throws and anticipate where the quarterback is going with the ball eight

Career picks missed only one tackle all in the 2023 season I have them I like him late day too uh I’m going to bet you a dollar I’m taking cam Hart will go before him yeah that’s going to be a Sentimental bet for me I’ll take that

Bet I think I like him more than I haven’t heard I this I had heard no one talking about him until I watched him before the combine because I saw his name on the list have you heard anyone talking about him before you watched him this weekend I can’t divulge that

Information all right put that down Debo I’ll make the sentimental Dwight MCL bet all right finally sonaki out of Utah linebacker excuse me safety 511 210 uh 462 with a 39 and a half inch vertical um half the snaps he played deep a quarter of the snaps he played uh in the

Box and then he actually played some slot and he also took some um reps at running back I believe at the Senior Bowl so he just he feels like a huanga type player and that you throw him out there and he’s just going to find the ball and Destroy things but the

Athleticism is what’s going to be limiting that said does the huangan in his game get him drafted higher than just seeing the the metales on a sheet of paper I think it does no okay well tell me what you think and I’ll tell you where I’m taking them the uh I think

This guy is a better football player than athlete U best when he’s close to the line of scrimmage this guy is really aggressive and run support love the way he comes homeing off the edge um I think he very instinctive to get off blocks and find the ball better going straight

Forward than he is turning his hips uh he’ll fight his ass through screen blocks out there and uh where he struggles is in coverage space is not his friend especially down the field I think he lacks range uh doesn’t anticipate throws as well as he should the lack of athleticism shows and

Speed shows up when he has to go from Deep half the field to get outside to numbers I think once he’s out of position he’s not athletic enough to get back into position in space um I think this guy’s going to be a demon on special teams I think this guy’s going

To carve out a role and I think people are going to fall in love with the football player uh they can’t forget about the athletic limitations in space but use them as some kind of dime linebacker or somewhere where he has some kind of situational uh reminded me a little bit of joshh

Matelis who we drafted in the seventh round yep of the way Brian Flores uses him now as a dime and a robber and things like that to me this guy is too good a football player to not make a football team I don’t see him Friday but

I think Saturday someone’s going to get a heck of a football player yep I had him as a middle to late fourth rounder yep yeah you okay with that yeah I’m good with that okay and I just looked up uh Talen NOA Fang’s measurable he was 6

Feet 199 so he actually weighs 10 pounds less than sonaki he ran a 464 which is very similar and let’s see what was his vertical 35 and a half versus 39 and a half so those sort of check off and he was a fifth round pick but he is also

Incredibly important to what San Francisco did again fit matters the way you use a player matters but I think um of all these players Rick let’s go through them quickly here again Jaylen Ford the linebacker out of Texas Tosh Washington the wide receiver Jen Jones the corner cornerback sonaki

We just talked about the safety SL doit all player Dwight mcln the cornerback out of Arkansas and cam Hart out of Notre Dame who gets drafted first Kim Hart yeah I knew you were gonna say that I don’t even know ifna I don’t want to make a dollar bet on that

I I just I’ve already lost two two or three dollars today think I’m gonna take my take my ball and go home all right that’s it we are done what up so is this 138 so by the time we’re done with uh PR day week will be up to 140 down the home

Stretch they’ll be fewer than 30 days into the draft crazy all right the next time you see me and Rick we’ll be in h Baton Rouge post Jaden danielm Malik neighbors Brian Thomas jron Smith yeah M my Smith maai be M beckton maai Wingo there’ll be a ton of

Guys we’ll be talking about there so we’ll see you guys Brian yeah tell uh tell people about the mini episodes sitting the feed oh yeah in case you because sometimes people get angry Debo that things show up in their feet they weren’t expecting so we’ve been doing the ultimate mock drafts for each

Individual team we’ll do all 3 all 32 teams we’ve done I think four are live now so you can check those out they’re only 10 minutes so if it’s not your thing just don’t listen to them but don’t get angry we’re just trying to hit all the bases people seem to be

Responding to those well and Rick will be doing some of those with us uh in the near future as well he just have to sort out his contract details because only so many things he’s willing to do for with the first pick but yes so those will be

In your feed if they are not already you can watch them on YouTube as well but for Rick for Depot I’m Ryan Wilson thank you guys who watch who listen who comment and we’ll see you next at LSU