NLU Podcast, Episode 808: Ken Green

Soly catches up with former PGA Tour pro Ken Green who has some amazing and hilarious stories about his career on tour, his numerous fines, sneaking his family into Augusta for the Masters and getting to play with the biggest superstars of his era.

We also hear about the traumatic events over the course of his life which he has detailed in his book Hunter of Hope: A Life Lived Inside, Outside, and On The Ropes. Soly has an editorial note at the 55:20 mark that introduces this portion of the podcast.

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Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the no Lup podcast Su here got an interview coming shortly with Ken green someone that we had mentioned in a recent Master’s or major recap as someone that we should track down and interview um we did track him down and interview him he

Was known as a bad boy on the tour and we detailed a lot of the the finds that he encountered he he Revels in telling so many stories uh I got to say when I set out to uh you know research Mr Green I was very unaware of some some heavy

Details about his past uh this podcast episode is going to start with a lot more of the funloving stuff uh and I’m going to cut in later in the episode to add a bit of context around uh a story about his childhood that’s quite difficult for him to tell and uh he

It’ll make sense when you get to it uh again when you hear a c in and it’s not an ad break it is an editorial note that I’m going to make later on kind of introducing some of the subject which was extremely difficult for him to

Discuss but it is a topic that he has written about in his book and has written about engulf digest uh it was just hard to understandably hard to get all the details from him when we do discuss it later on uh this episode is brought to you by our friends at roback

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That’s r h o bac.com That’s 20% off bottoms qips hoodies and more with code nlu get ready for the golf season with roback so I’m 37 I started covering golf in 2014 uh I’d like to think I know a fair amount about it but some you know

Some historical deep Dives have led us into hearing just a bit of your story and preparing for this I got to say I was not fully prepared of what I would go on to learn about your life and we’re going to cover a lot today but I want to

Start with where does where does your golf Story begin well I guess you know in a uh Strange World my mom decided to move us to Honduras uh which you know when you’re 11 years old you just assume Honduras is a city just down the road but basically

She did that hoping that my father would get his stuff together he was a really bad Drinker hoping that less people he knew maybe he could he could he could beat the drinking but uh he couldn’t but you know I I it woke me up to a lot of

Things you know some bad and some good but it’s a strange place to go when you’re when you’re 11 years old why Honduras and how when does golf enter the picture there did you did you learn golf in Honduras I think Honduras is that’s where the job was he’s a

Principal of an American school and really the the main reason I got into golf is because they wouldn’t let me play any other sports because I was I was American so they had joined a little N9 hole well it was the only Golf Course nine Hole Golf Course and and so

I basically spent my days there and then just kind of fell in love with it it’s kind of helped me survive uh the bad things that did happen and and uh it was a win-win you know little that I know was going to save my existence as a you

Know a good person or but I’ve Loved golf ever since so when you you started developing golf skills when you’re in Honduras you mov back to the States um as a teenager and you turn into a professional golfer rather quickly as I understand it can you tell us a little

Bit about that well you know it was I I I knew I was going to be in the business whether it was going to you know when you’re 16 years old or 15 years old you don’t really know if you’re going to make it you know a lot of kids say they

Want to be professional you know football players or basketball baseball you know I was going to be in golf whether I was going to make it on the tour I had no idea but if I didn’t I would have been a club pro of of of something golf was my existence so when

I got I hate to use the word you know done with school so to speak College uh I left after three years I thought it was time to go find out whether I had a chance to you know survive and make it in golf or whether I was going to have

To go into the club world can you give us an idea of what the progolf landscape looked like I mean again we’re in 2024 now it’s there’s money flying everywhere there’s video of all kinds everywhere it’s just every resource possible at our fingertips but I’m guessing your Ed the education

Process on the pro golf world had to be entirely different back then you I mean yeah definitely was a different world it’s uh there really wasn’t a whole lot of places to play you know mini tour wise where now they have them all over you know waiting for that dreaded Q

School which for viewers it’s once a year and you know you got to get yourself ready because most of us are young and you really haven’t developed into the golfer that you will be and it was there is nothing more nerve-wracking than Q school you

Can say you know wi in the open or the up for the US Open or the Masters I there is it is crazy I I’ll give you a quick story we’re in uh it was six rounds back in those days and we’re in Palm Springs playing linta

And I was kind of a stupid aggressive player I would be perfect for today’s world you know back then wasn’t so smart because your misses sent you off the planet the 17th hole there was a really tight hole I mean we’re talking just zoom and most everybody was hitting

Irons and then they would hit you know in shot over water I hit driver and just smoke it right down in the middle and I’m you know just got to finish par par and I’ll get my card I do my yardage and says you know 165 and I’m like man it

Just looks a lot closer I do my yardage again 165 and I’m like it’s just not right something you know you just know something’s not right and I’m like well all right I did it one more time got this 165 again from a different sprinkler all right 165 it is so I

Pulled out uh a 6 iron which is back then that’s what it was you know not a nine iron like today but and I probably hit the worst shot I’ve ever hit in my life just I mean I laid the sod over this puppy and you know I’m disgusted

I’m banging you know this and I look up and and the pin is in the very back and it somehow carries the water which doesn’t make any sense I’m telling you I didn’t hit this more than 130 yards and it literally rolls up to about 15 feet

And as it turns out I end up making the PT and now like I’m like well this can’t be right I know what you know I mean it was a sod Buster and I redid the yardage and I I got 135 this time and it just goes to show you how

The nerves can can really play in your head which means I carried that six iron it was 105 to the to the front so I only hit my six iron 106 yards and it rolled the rest of the way that’s how fat I hit it uh I make it Bob TW finishes double

Bogey triple bogey and missed it by a shot it’s just you can’t explain to viewers uh how crazy the the uh the Q School pressure is so you you go straight to the tour like do you feel are you ready for it at this point do is

Your game ready or do what what what’s the learning process you’re not you’re not ready you know uh very few are again back then because it was a slower progression whereas now because of the equipment guys get better faster so you know they’re they they’re little mini

Studs at 16 17 years old you know when they get to College they’re they’re turning into studs where you know our progression was a much slower process you know I got out on the tour and and you know it was a whoa these guys are

Way out of my leag I mean you know I think I played 14 or 15 events and made Seven Cuts thought I was a just a waste but it you know so I had to go back to Q school and it was at that Q school and

This time it was at TPC sress where they where Scotty just blew everybody’s mind and that’s when I realized how much better I was because Q school was now I don’t want to say easy but how I handled it pressure-wise showed me how much I did

Learn even though it was a bad year I how much I did learn and then you know I’ve been you know played the for the next you know 18 19 years when when you got out there who did you see that that amazed you or what did you see out there

That was like okay this is a totally different ball game yeah well you know it was the first year or two you know I was lucky enough to to get paired with a couple of the players and you know it was like wow they’re just you know lny

Watkins and you know uh got to watch you know Tom Watson and and it was like this this is just out of my league there’s you know there’s no way I’m ever going to reach these kind of this kind of level but you know even the guys that

Were I hate to use the word mediocre but you know mediocre tour players I guess is the the best way to label it were so much better than me and it was like huh but again it’s that you don’t realize how much better you get every year you

Learn you learn and even though sometimes you feel like you’re going backwards you’re actually going forward and you know it took me uh let’s see one two three four years before I won my first event and you know then I was lucky to win some more and all that but

It was crazy because I never realized how mental the game was you know when you’re young you’re you know you’re young you’re dumb you’re just kind of you know my case I was fearless and and just went out there and played and that’s when I realized that well I’m

Watching some guys that are like stud muffins you know hitting the ball so much better than me but couldn’t keep their card and and it it dawned on me so was like well it’s it’s because as bad as I might have been upstairs in the Noggin World they were worse and that’s

That’s the reason you know and and to this day I’m firm believer that at a certain level once we get to that tour level the major difference between each golfers how well they uh their course management and their faith in themselves uh is the difference what would you say is uh what

Was your reputation like out on tour what what what what are you known for as you say with a giggle well you know the strangest thing is is I got this reputation as this like a bad boy and I never really could understand it because I only I answered questions you as you

Know I get asked a question I gave you an answer you know to me it was I wasn’t being controversial I wasn’t trying to be controversial but evidently I was and I I tell my friends and stuff I said like I think I’m holding back I’m only

Really saying 50% of what I want to say and I’m getting crucified for it and you know then once you start winning then then of course you get more notoriety and and uh I I went on to be the tourist bad boy you know all the different finds and and uh that’s just

Who I was I guess did you enjoy that monik or did you play into it at all you say you know my theory was again I I just you know I I just want to answer questions if you want to give me a question I’m going to give you the

Answer and I still believe that’s the way you should do it and you know the tour is is very controlling in the sense that they basically want manyi robots out there you know and and then you mix that with the sports psychologist that are so involved today that

Basically they are Many Robots you know they’re not real big on emotions they’re not real big on answering questions with honesty you know and and it’s uh it’s something I never could quite understand why you know I mean in my opinion golfers especially professional golfers are the most honest people on

The planet Earth you know they’re calling penalties on themselves that you would never see in any other any other sporting event but the tour wants you to act a certain way and like for instance I’m answering this question and I’m going to tell you what I just did and

Then I’m going to tell you that the tour has been run by three of the most dishonest people on planet Earth starting with Dean Bean Tim finchum and now Jay Monahan and it’s the complete opposite of what the who the golfers are and yet the guys on the top are

Questionable I mean they’re they’re just not they’re just not honest people starting with with what uh who was commissioner when you were on tour what in your opinion what makes Dean Dean Beeman dishonest or what examples what leads you to that conclusion you know the reason I became more aware of who

These gentlemen were was I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of the Ping Square Groove lawsuit sure I was obviously a ping player and I was the only name player to sign on with the lawsuit and I felt very strongly about it not not to fight the tour the usgaa but I just

Didn’t think it was right that all of a sudden you know three or four million golfers who play pings have to go out and buy a new set of clubs I mean to me that was inexcusable and what the powers to be didn’t understand was Square

Grooves hurt you as much as they helped you there’s certain shots they might have helped you but then there’s certain shots that the ball might have spun too much and and spun in the air and ends up in the water instead of carrying so you

Know the the good the bad of golf just like every other aspect of golf and and then once the lawsuit happened that’s when you know Beaman and finchum were not being honest to the players you know telling them that you know that Carston is going to take over the tour there’s

Going to be no more PJ tour you’re going to lose your jobs and in that three-year period three and a half I guess it was technically 27 of my 31 fines happened so you know just put put two and two together and you’re going to get screw

Ken green I me that’s just how it works uh I got fined on on Tuesdays I’m I’m playing a practice round it’s me uh Calia Fred Couples and pay Stewart we’re playing at uh 92 B Reeve in St Louis and we’re waiting on the tea box

And you know it’s a par three so it’s a you know they’re waiting and waiting so I go down and start signing autographs and someone says to me hey what do you think of the course so you know I’m signing away and I go are you a

Member and he goes no I said the course sucks you know and everybody laughed and and all that well an official just happened to be walking by and boom fine on a Tuesday I mean you know that’s just that’s just how it worked when it came to me I I I

Got I got I got nailed often well I I’ve also heard a story of uh in this time period as well of an incident that happened at the Tour Championship uh with you during this ping these ping days with a weather uh a weather delay uh Pebble Beach does that sound right

Does that sound familiar yeah I do I do do a little a little preparation for these uh it was the very first Tour Championship the Pebble Beach and a storm comes in out of nowhere I mean just rain is sideways and it’s windy now we all know the Ten tole of pebble great

Golf ball I hit driver driver and I don’t reach the green about 12 13 yard short I pitch it up to literally literally about a maybe 15 in and there’s an official there now it’s just buckets and buckets and buckets and I’m like I go over and said you you’re

Got to call this right I mean this is the same we can’t even you know nope NOP no and I’m like man that makes you know so I get over the pot and I’m getting there and I put and just as I started stroking it a huge gust that comes and

Kind of blows me away and I you know I hit the PT I missed the hole by about seven Ines that’s how much I got blown over and then I ta the next one and the son of a [ __ ] Blows the Whistle and so you know that they knew

They were blowing and he was just being a a pain in the ass and I ended up uh Missing the playoff by one shot oh now at this particular year it was between myself Tom Kite and Curtis strange that who would be the first one to win a

Million dollars for the year you know not not not for a tournament but for the whole year and and I’m not saying I would have won the playoff but I you know I you know it just uh you know people are human emotions getting away but you know again

All because they were not being honest you know and you you fast forward to Monahan and he and and the board was honest with the players you know didn’t didn’t give a heads up on the you know on the live so-called merger and all this I mean just stabbed Rory in the

Back because Rory was basically the tour spokesman and look how he’s done a 180 you know he’s gone from they should not even be allowed on the planet to I think they should be able to come back and you can’t tell me that’s not because he got stabed and I’ll give you another

Example with John ROM uh John Ron was also adamantly not going to do it and who knows what besides the you know not telling the top players what’s going on who knows what they actually told Ron so he didn’t just switch without a reason you know he may too felt he got stabbed

In the back and he said screw you and and you know then Monahan and and comes up with this I have health reasons you know so no one’s going to question you know he should have been fired immediately for that and I you know I I I give them credit you know

They pulled up you know a good scam and he still has the job but it’s just wrong you know you shouldn’t it’s it’s just too good a game to be you know playing all the shenanigans in in the back door well a big part in

Unpacking all this for me is just I keep coming back to the structure of the tour being a huge hindrance and leaving it vulnerable to you know there’s 200 members there’s all these opinions is member own organization it’s not really designed with maximum media value and entertainment value designed it’s not

What the charter is that’s not what the you know the mission statement of of the tour is and it it does seem like uh and I I want to relate this back to you know it seems just like an Antiquated setup that never got fixed corrected

Modernized in some way and it was kind of put into place around the time uh you know a little bit before your time but you were you’re a part of this you were part of a tour that was a little way smaller scale it was an event to event

City to City kind of thing that was kind of strung together in one tour but it wasn’t massively sold as this big media project and it just doesn’t seem to really make sense to keep this kind of same structure to me uh you know and and have these massive television deals and

Try to create this entertainment product when playing opportunities is more important on the under underlying level I wasn’t expecting to talk to you about this today but you brought this up and I I’m curious to get your your input on that well you know it’s it’s for

Instance like you know the tax credit that they get that they’re so-called eligible for you know pretty much every legal mind I’ve ever talked to said you know this is what how things were done back in the day you know they kind of scratched their back and there’s no way

They should have this as the other sports do have it you know they you know they just kind of looked at it and said you know they’re good for the for the game they’re good for the you know the United States you know again whether it’s football or baseball or any of

These you know and since now you fast forward with the live thing hits and now they’re they’re branching out to a for-profit you know it’s it’s a tough and to which I really can’t honestly say I have an answer one way or the other you know I don’t know all everything

There is to in terms of that part of of the tour and the structure but that’s why you get the the brightest brains and you get them together and if we needed to make change it should have been made a long time ago yeah you know and you

Know you have to you have to make change as as as time flies by that’s just how it works in life yeah it’s way way too reactive I mean this this this threat was existing for a long time and and nothing happened on that front but that’s a conversation for another we

Could go down a whole different rabbit hole but I you you mentioned this number 31 fins I think you said can you give us an example of of what are some of the things you get fine for and which ones you agreed with and which ones were P I

Deserve some of them I won’t I I won’t deny that I do deserve I do uh deserve some of them for instance the 92 US Open was at Pebble Beach and the greens had just rattled my brains you know there’s this is the day back in

Spike marks and the greens were you know bumpy and fast and just really hard to putt you know not like is you know they’re much better now but so I was well known for uh depositing Putters throughout the country and and lakes and ponds and oceans so I decided

That I was going to unload this one and so on 18 I become a much more mature person I decided to go around you know the huge scoreboard that’s there the manual one I go around it so nobody will see me and then I just gave that putter the heave

Ho of the century and the only person that saw me was the guy in the back of the scoreboard thing and who was putting up the numbers and wouldn’t you know he writes a letter in and so I got fined now the greatest I believe story or

Although I didn’t get fined for this particular one was also at Pebble Beach I finished on the ninth hole one year this is when we’re playing the at& again the greens had rattled my brain and it was time for this Putter and I to to you know divorce so I go

Over to the edge of there and I just another heave ho now it’s a long way to the ocean you know you got to go over the beach and all that and but but I made it a good 20 yards into the ocean it was an impressive drow so the very

Next year this couple comes up to me and talks to me he says we’d love to have your autograph I said sure So they have this big um roll up poster so and in it there’s this guy who’s in the in the ocean and he’s got his hands up holding

The putter that I had tossed the previous year he he saw me do it he went down to down to the ocean said it took him 45 minutes to find the putter but that so that that’s probably my most memorable quote autograph that that uh that I’ll man I just won’t forget that

Is fantastic and uh uh I don’t know if you heard of the arold Palmer beer and the Floyd story I was just getting ready to say there’s some this was not not just unique to the PGA Tor you did this was at the Masters as well this one’s at the 97

Masters and as it would happen happened I had shot um i’ had accidentally well didn’t actually a friend of mine I was watching him play basketball we had rented a house uh and I I went out to to watch and the ball rolled under the car

So I reached under to get it for him and a friend of mine came out and kind of kidly gave me a little bump and my thumb went right into the ball and broke the thumb um so I shot 87 it was a bad you

Know I mean I could play it wasn’t great but I could play and and and I I was miserable I sh7 so I was going to withdraw thinking this this is crazy you know I can’t play golf like this and then I found out I was paired with Palmer and because of

Our ages we had never played together before and I really hadn’t spent any time with them at all except for hello how are you and so to me this was you know this was a perfect I me this is you know when this was you know my idol

Growing up was was Palmer and uh so we went out and and played and I had a I can’t tell you how good a day I had that day and uh you know he’s he’s telling me all sorts of stories and you know I’m asking him everything in the planet so

Then on the on the 15th ho the rounds coming to an end and and I had a friend go over and get me a beer because I figured this is my only chance that I’m ever going to have to have a a beer with you know the king I mean he’s the king

So I went over and said AR this has been a phenomenal day I thank you and you and I just wanted to have a beer with you cuz I didn’t know if I’d ever have a beer with you and uh he said ah you should have brought me one I so well

Even I’m not that forward but uh so we get through and I start telling that story and you know that I mention weird things have happened every time I play with a superstar you know I said you know I don’t know why it just has whether you know it’s sey you know I

Got the Jack Nichols story was phenomenal and and uh you know I said you know the Floyd’s story was unique he was you know he was a I think my quote was he was a dirt ball to play with until he cheated and then he was great and I said that without even

Thinking you know I because trust me he’s not a cheater but he took it a bad drop because he was pissed one in in Miami he literally didn’t say a word to us for for 10 holes uh and then hit the shot to the par five and pull hooks it and never SS

Carrying the water he ends up dropping up there I’m playing with a great friend of mine Bob Boyd but you know we’re we’re like rookies you know we’re not you know we’re not gonna we’re the very first group off on Sunday Floyd is pissed because that’s his fifth major

Because he was you know that’s where he lived and you know for him to be in the first group on Sunday he’s miserable and uh but you know I don’t I don’t have that in my head back then I’m 23 years old or whatever so you know I

Didn’t put two and two together and he my my friend is just besides himself you know he’s got a southern uh he’s from the Carolinas he’s got this southern accent and he goes rain rain what we going to do the Masters PJ champion chating Green cha it’s like I

Don’t know what the hell we gonna do I mean and as amazing my friend is so rattled he shanked his wed shot no way so he makes the seven Floyd hit it up there about 50 feet and he makes the P so he makes the par so

You know we’re my friend is is about to lose his marbles so on the next hole Floyd hits it in there about six feet and threee jaacks it so so now we’re walking up the little Hill to the next te and it’s Bob Ray and me and without

Looking at me or anything he he just goes goes deserves the blank blank right for cheating and I was like oh boy so now we’re in the middle of the Fairway and I think the light bulb probably went off on Ray and he probably looked back and goes oh you know maybe I

Did maybe I didn’t drop right or something but uh and then he was like nicest guy in the world for seven holes so that’s I that’s what I meant not that I wasn’t calling him out for cheaters he’s not you know he just made a dumb

Mental you know he was pissed eror uh but you know the SE thing happened in the ma in the 89 Masters where he tried to well he literally tried to cheat well take us yeah assume that we don’t know these stories because these are some of

These are new to me as well 89 Masters is uh we’re in the third or fourth to last group we we have a chance but we have to play a great round you know well SE plays flawless I mean just Flawless play shoots 31 on front and now he’s tied for the lead

And he he overcooks it on 10 and over hooks it left and so I was curious as if he had a shot so I walked down that way and I got there and his balls in a little mini rut like this and I’m like well he’s got to pitch out towards me so

I I walk down towards my ball and I’m looking back waiting for him to you know pitch it out all of a sudden I see him dropping I’m like dropping what’s he dropping for so I walk my little butt all the way back up there and I don’t know what

People aware of this but the masteress has the rules official on every every hole so I got there and immediately the official says well you may not know this but here in Augusta we have this uh rule local rule called uh crowd damage if we feel uh your lie has been affected by

Crowd damage we can give somebody a drop and I was like no no no no this isn’t getting the drop and the only reason I knew this is because on the second hole I had gone from the green and pushed it where people were and it was wet it was

A wet Masters so it was all mud and mil you know just crusted little holes my ball went in one of those holes and I tried to get a lie and I wasn’t given one and it was clearly crowd damage but I wasn’t given one because well well

Honestly because I was kind green so I said no I want I want another I want another Ru you know this is so we’re waiting and waiting and then sebie looks at me and goes Ken you can go you know it’s not like I’m going to cheat or

Anything and I just said I’m not so sure about that se you know so now the crowd was like w you know and so we waited and the official uh Michael B bik I think his last name was U president of the RNA and all that he got he got within 10 15

Feet of it he said put it back you know that’s just who sebie was I mean sebie knew it wasn’t Crow damage but he also knew he had a way with people and he he would try to intimidate you and you know so that’s how it was and then so then he

Punched out and he kind of just kind of lost it you know never you know that was pretty much it but uh you know it’s just one of those things that just weird things happen when I played with superstars for the first time and what what was the Jack Nicholas story

Then you referenced oh that was a good one Jack was this was 1982 uh my very first year on tour and I had qualified for my very first US Open and it’s too ironically was at Pebble Beach so I I signed up as a four of us

Were going to go out and play so we put our name down here so we show up and uh somehow there’s five of us I I don’t know who one of us screwed up I don’t know which one so I just said to these guys said listen you guys you guys go

Ahead I’ll well something will happen and the uh the starter there says geez Mr Green you know the Sheet’s full so well we’ll see what happens we’ll you know we’ll go from there so I’m waiting and I’m waiting and then all of a sudden it was like a mob of people just all

Over the place on the first hole and I’m like holy what the hell is this all about well all of a sudden I see this guy kind of pushing people away and this and Tom weisskoff walks out I go oh Tom weisskoff that you know okay my scuff

And then and then all of a sudden I just see people themselves just move out of the way like Moses was coming or something and it was Jack Nicholas I’m like oh Jack Nicholas you know just and so Jack says hello to the starter and starter says hello and he says uh the

Starter says do you have a tea time Mr Nicholas and Jack says no and the starter says well you’re on the tea you know and I’m like okay that that’s Jack Nicholas he deserves that I’m you know that’s good and then all sudden he goes

Uh excuse me Mr Nicholas uh young Mr Ken you know Ken green is looking for a time would you mind it and I’m like no no no no I do not want to play with and you know Jack was said yes absolutely um my knees were literally

Shaking all I could think about on the t-shot was please don’t let Jack see that my knees are shaking cuz they were they were shaking it was I was petrified had an absolute blast with him he was wonderful he couldn’t have been nicer and uh on the 15th hole he disappears we’re playing

16 uh and we go to 16t and I’m like Tom are we supposed to continue where’d he go screw him who knows where he went okay we hit off and then just as we getting off the tea he comes up and he’s got uh four peach ice cream cones in his

Hand which was peach ice cream was his flavorite and he knew that there was an ice stand there that sold the peach ice cream so I thought that was pretty wild that Jack Nichols bought me an ice cream cone so now now we’ve got you know probably 5,000 people watching this we

Get to 18 and Tom hits a bullet Jack Hits another bullet a little left of Tom and they’re out there in the Fairway and uh Tom’s over the ball and he looks at Jack looks at him because I’m standing next Jack and he looks at him says hey Tom Eagles for

Dinner Tom says sure he gets over the ball and then he backs off he goes wait a minute you have your whole you have your whole effing family here and Jack Just Smiles and Tom says fine I’ll do it and Tom hits this great shot he had like

255 to carry which again back in those days was a nightmare sure he he flies it in the bunker just misses Well Jack had 253 and he pulls out one iron I look at my caddy here I am a rookie and I’m and I look at my caddy I

Said what is he thinking about he’s got no chance of getting a one iron that far you know here I am telling my guy that Jack doesn’t know what Ellie’s doing and Jack gets this one iron that I will never forget this is what 40 some odd

Years later and this thing went straight up in the air flew 254 and rolled up a couple and about 30 feet and he makes the pop I it just it was I mean it was just it was a magnificent day uh you know and the great thing about I got to play with

Jack when it wasn’t in a tournament so he you know he could be kind of himself versus that you know laser focus that that that you have sometimes in tournaments so that was wonderful and then Palmer I you know also you know technically it was a tournament but we

Knew you know it’s not like we were going to do anything so it was uh the memories that I have for you know the 20 years that I was out there uh you know whether it’s the wins or the rder cup or or the stories like the ones I just told

You just I mean you couldn’t ask for a better better life I mean I know I’ve had a lot of ugly bad things happen in life but I’ve had a lot of good things and I I can’t complain what happened after the uh the the beer incident at at

At Augusta did you get reprimanded for that and and how did you how’ you weasel out of that one yeah I got pretty hard the Max Fine back then was 3,000 and I and and and I was going to get suspended but I had I had a friend right

In uh saying it was a non-alcoholic beer so he rescinded that partion of the fine but I still got the 3,000 fine because I the tour has this vague rule about conduct un becoming and they felt that I you know I belittled another player and you know but again it

Was it was right during the the peak of the uh of the lawsuit so I I got nailed whenever I wanted I remember I played in Japan and I sat down with Lanny and and Craig Stadler uh now we know Lanny had a pretty good reputation for you know

Slamming the clubs and all that sta would you know he’ bury him in the club in the ground and all that and you know here I’m getting these fines left and right and this was the same year that I got fined for a practice round I wanted

To find out how many fines they had had you know received over all the years I figured they were up there pretty good and uh Lanny looks at me and goes what are you talking about I’ve only been fine once I’m like what do you mean you’ve

Only been fine once he yeah he said about Bud deserved it was my own fault I broke a t- marker I’m like wait a let’s get back to you’ve only been fine once and and I was just stunned so then I look at at stads like figuring all right

You know he’s the one that really buries the clubs in and bangs them and how many times you been fine I’ve never been fine I was like what what do you mean you never been fine what are you talking about you guys are like two of the Hot

Heads out here then you have one fine and at that time I was like a number 28 or whatever it was but it’s uh you know it’s I I again I go back to I can’t complain it’s it’s been a great ride well surely that’s the only stunt you

Ever pulled at Augusta right there’s nothing else you would have ever uh ever I’ve got some good ones at Augusta uh ironically that same year 1989 for those people who don’t know you get um so many family passes which were eight and then you could buy eight so

You’re allowed basically 16 passes and you get eight of them when you get there and the family passes are sent to your home and I had played the week before so my wife was going to meet me at Augusta uh now for the first time she

Had uh a third of them were her family members to come in for the first time well we end up up having some sort of argument which I couldn’t even tell you what it was about and she decided she’s not coming all right fine you don’t want

To come don’t come it’s all right just you know FedEx up the tickets no I’m not I’m not doing it what do you mean you’re not doing it yeah we got to have the no I’m not doing it well every one of her members family members tried to talk her

And she wouldn’t send them wouldn’t send them wouldn’t send them so I finally get to the point where I know she’s not sending them so I decided to go in into the uh office and just tell hord Harden the truth figure you know he’s married we’ve

All you know people have fights so I go in there and just lay it all out telling the truth figing hoping I said you know I’d really appreciate it if you could let me buy eight more and I I’ll never forget and this is a quote no get better control of your

Wife that’s it so now I’m screwed I got we got nothing so the first day I sneak everybody in I we go back and forth in the car and we sneak him in and how do you where where are they riding well this the first first day they rode in the in the

Car in the seat like normal people and I gave the the the eight youngest I didn’t give the tickets figuring they had a better chance of moving around without getting caught well her brother gets caught and he panics and he rats me out saying I’m here with Ken green you know

Instead of just saying yeah I snuck on and got caught send me my way and so now the next day they search they’re checking all the badges when I P pull in so now when I go back to get the other group of guys because I had to make three trips back

And forth we’re hiding them under the seat with blankets we got a couple in the trunk and we we just kind of move her in and we pulled it off and and it uh but it was a great trunk trunk escape and it uh it was a unique story but it’s weird

Because considering that I’ve never won the Masters I’ve got a lot of weird stories and some people may know about you know when they watch the par three tournament on Wednesday uh all the kids have the little bibs and they’re catting for well I was the first one to do that

But I got letters from H Harden and telling me not to do it anymore you know and now they have the kids doing it for everyone the actually the owner of the bib company actually called me about 3 years ago and wanted to thank me because he knew I was the one that

Started this and he’s his company is flourishing because he has the bib and once once you’re have the bib company for Augusta you get you get everybody sure so that was my one claim to fame uh my next was my sister was the first female caddy there and she was the

First female caddy on tour ever uh and then the next is uh you you’ve seen the skip shots they do on 16 you know I think Rah had a hole in one you know a few years back well I was the first one to start that and I got letters telling

Me not to do it anymore so you know I’m I’m kind of disappointed that I don’t have a plaque somewhere you know a little little Ken green Skipper plaque or something but it’s uh it’s there’s a lot of stories out of Augusta yeah geez you got I mean we

Could I don’t think we can cover all your stories uh that we have in in the time we have today but take us back you before I guess I don’t know when exactly this is sometime in the early ‘ 80s I think it is how you uh at some point in

Your career either just to get started but how you uniquely Finance some of your early days on the PGA tour well the first few years I had sponsors from my hometown they were you know nice enough to put up some money and get me out there and but after the

Third year you know I had you know I kept my card but I wasn’t you know really making money cuz you know the travel expenses and back then we played for nothing I mean our purse our whole purse was $300,000 I mean think about that here I

Am in Florida in January trying to figure out where I’m going to get my money to start the tour and I don’t I don’t have I don’t have maybe $2,000 of my name and so I did what anybody would do when they’re on their last row and

Hoping and and I know literally know zero about basketball but I started betting basketball games and I I won 23 out of 24 games I mean think about that that’s just stupid and that’s how I got started you know my tour and ended up winning a tournament that year and every you know

Never had a problem you know since it was just I mean you just can’t think of it 23 out of 24 it insane just for those of those who don’t believe in in the Little Help From Above uh I had to have help help that’s just only way I

Can look at it that’s incredible that really is an incredible story if it just it just was such a different time man I I I can’t get enough of stories of that time of of what the tour was like and uh and and hearing all those but how did uh

I guess just I we can’t cover your whole career here but how did your kind of career evolve where when did when did things like start not going well for you and kind of your transition into into Champions stour golf I’m just kind of curious I’ve heard you refer to Demons a

Lot on the golf course and and in the mental side of golf I’m just curious if you can kind of take me through some of the harder times out playing prog you like I said it it took a few years to finally you know you could say mature

Understand the game get a little better uh you know after my second year I realized I needed some some swing fixes and because I’d never had a lesson in my life and I I tracked down uh Peter casus who I was his first student uh and it

Worked out great and he helped me you know tremendously um you know and then you know one in 85 and one two events in ‘ 85 I won another one in ‘ 86 another one in ‘ 87 a couple in 88 another in ‘ 89 another one in 90 and you know things

Were great and then uh uh went through a really bad divorce uh she she played played with games with the kids unfortunately and uh that’s where the demons came about when you know I I had arrest warrants because you know I couldn’t get enough money there so I couldn’t get back to the

State and you know that’s where all the demons go when you’re you start pressing to make money and you know it became a basket case and you know eventually fell into a massive depression and and everything and and you know even have you heard about suicide one I I don’t

Know if I have yeah um really bad depression and uh so I decided I had enough there was enough this was enough and um I don’t know how this happens I literally took a whole bottle of pain pills and a bunch of other pills and the rest of the story comes from my

Girlfriend and we had a a a lab called Coco and she my girlfriend was sleeping on the couch and she kept trying to wake her up and kept waking her up and she kept pushing her away and pushing her away and pushing her away and she she eventually takes my

Girlfriend’s shoulder and pulls her off the couch now she’s pissed at this point so the dog comes running in jumps on me and when Sue came in that’s when she realized something was wrong so I’m real I’m I’m alive today because of what that dog did but you know that’s where you

Know the demons were there I mean I you know I’m a firm believer that everybody has them but most of the time they don’t come out uh you know unless you’re getting to these depressed States or you know ugly times was a lot of it because of the bad stuff that happened in

Honduras you know I I could talk to a a therapist for for a year and and I don’t know if you get the right answers and you know all the different things that have happened but golf is a brutally hard game and if you have any any little

Many demons in there any thoughts that that get you thinking of everything but the right things you have zero chance in golf and and you know that’s that’s pretty much what happened to me that’s pretty much why I lost my card I don’t think I lost my card I think I was 43

You know I probably if I you know didn’t have those demons and the depression I probably would have you know stayed another four or five years before the champions tour like you know any other of the good players that play the game but it it uh and that goes you know another story

About the gambling and stuff now I’m basically broke again because of everything that’s has transpired with so there’s times when I had arest warrants and I went to Vegas one I was in between tournaments one year um so I was good friends with Steve W and Mike Pascal’s

Brother-in-law more Mike and I’m sure you’ve heard of Shadow Creek well Shadow Creek back then was just stupid nice I mean you know not many players he he only had this high rollers of high rollers that would play so I was out there for a whole week did not Place one

Bet because I didn’t have any money to really bet and you know I’m trying to make some money but I did gamble on the golf course because you know you can control that I felt like I I could win I ended up winning 800 bers for the week

So the night before leave I decide I’m going to take that $800 and give it a whirl you know two or three hours later I’ve got $105,000 whoa and you know everything was just going right you know you’re playing Blackjack and you know did boom boom boom boom and you know besides

Winning the money now I can you know I could pay the money I owed here and get back and see my son and and that happened two other times where once I got I went and gambled and one time was I I owed 27,000 and as soon as

I got the 27,000 I stopped and then there was another time that it was 18,000 and I’ve just I’ve just been lucky and to this day I don’t gamble because I feel like they’ve been so nice to me upstairs that I don’t want to go it’s just part part of that wild ride

That I’ve that I that I’ve been on yeah I mean it is it is a a truly insane ride and if if you could detail or kind of take us to uh in 2009 you you have a you were living in a mobile home I believe at this point you’ve been there living

In that for several years and you have a horrible accident I’m wondering if you could uh tell us about that yeah uh well to you know I just turned 50 so you know I was getting ready to play the senior tour and got off to a decent start you

Know considering I hadn’t really played competitive golf you know I don’t know I made 180 Grand or whatever it was and so you know this was the this was my chance to get healthy again you know where we could have enough money to survive and all that and we’re actually coming back

From a tournament uh my wife was from Greensboro at that time we were going from Austin to Greensboro and we had stopped halfway and then my brother was cading for me and and and Genie and my German Shepherd ni uh which you can kind of see here nip the gator that’s another story

I went into the back to sleep uh and the last thing I remember is hearing this boom and I assume it was the the tire blowing the tire blew and they just just lost total control of an RV and we went flying down this embankment and just crashed into the

Mississippi swamp and they were killed instantly I must have gotten up because I was thrown out of the front window most of my body went out one side of the window and my right leg went out the the other side you know where there’s a a a

Pole in the middle and that’s that’s where I ended up losing my leg because it just pretty much shattered everything there and uh so we end we ended up having to cut the leg off and it uh you know obviously it ends the the uh the

Senior career so to speak but you know it was uh you know it’s a tough blow you know you lose you lose two people you love dearly and uh but you know you I’m a again I don’t know you know some people believe God some don’t I’m not a

Religious man in the sense of you know following certain religions and you know with all that kind of stuff but I firmly believe and you got to you got to decide you know either you live a pity party or you you get back up you shake your head

And and you keep going and you know you do whatever you can and you know that was my my hope uh it was it was a killer you know about six months later I lost my son you know that one was you know you don’t expect to lose someone who is

20 years old and your child and you know college booze and you know mixture of some drugs and uh that one hurt because you know you just you don’t you know you just don’t but you know again you got to tell yourself all right get back up keep going get back up keep

Going uh you know so that’s what I’m that’s what I keep doing and you know I just I just I just I just keep going every day I I try to do do what I can you know and you know if I can be a better person at the end of

This year than I was last year then then I’m doing good things you know you got to always you got to have a reason you got to have a purpose whatever it is and it’s different for everybody but you got to have a you got to have a reason to do

Things in my opinion and you know that’s how I try to live you know and it’s uh It’s Tricky uh I don’t know if you’ve ever heard of a disease called CRPS I know never had either uh and unfortunately I contracted it from the accident uh didn’t get diagnosed until

About 3 years ago properly uh it’s a nerve disorder and it’s nasty anybody’s bored and wants to read something it is nasty and so you know I’m fighting a lot of pain but you just again you just you just get yourself back up and you keep

Going this next part of the podcast is uh about what Ken revealed in his book in 2019 and also uh what is exerted in Golf Digest the book is called Hunter of Hope and uh in the book he details how he was sexually abused as a kid in

Hondurus it’s something that uh he shared in the past and wanted to share to raise awareness which we discuss in this interview but it is obviously an understandably quite difficult for him to talk about he refers to some incidents here without detailing them and I’m not going to lay out all the

Details that he has written about in the past but I do want to add just a bit of context to what he’s referring to before you listen I think it will make more sense uh once you do hear it um summarizing it uh it’s again a very awful topic and

Very difficult uh to even summarize but he was abused by several men beginning when he was 11 years old they demanded that he not share the details of the abuse with his parents they beat him uh he had to lied to his mom about where welts were coming from and uh after two

Years of living in Honduras his mother’s relationship with his father was beyond repair she set out and moved back to Connecticut uh he was threatened by the men that abused him uh and they were he was told he needed to stay there or they would kill his father again he

References this in what we’re about to discuss but the details are are are obviously difficult for him to cover the story goes on and on it’s awful the abuse would take place when his father would be passed out from excessive alcohol use and uh he also refers to how

His days in Honduras ended uh and after a particularly gruesome attack uh he saw his attacker sleeping in his own bed uh and picked up a rock and quote hit him with the rock as hard and for as long as I could muster the strength uh he

Obviously talks about this as well here in the in the coming part um it’s of course very difficult for him so not all the details there are present but I hopefully hopefully this adds just a bit of context uh again incredibly difficult story to tell tough for him to relive

Difficult to hear diffic difficult for me to ask about but here is uh here is him discussing uh his his time in Honduras in 2019 I believe you wrote a book uh about your life and about some of the things that that you’ve gone through um I want to start you know a

Tough part of the ation with just we’ll kind of back into some of the the details that you that you shared in that book but a big part of of this was a secret you kind of held on to for not kind of the secret that you held on to

For many many years first I want to start with what what has it been like since you came out with with what you detailed in that book and we’ll get into the detail but I’m first curious to to kind of hear what what kind of release

You’ve gotten out of this and what what kind of progress has been made uh potentially in your life since coming out and and sharing your your story well you know was you know people have been wanting me to to to write something cuz I’d been such a wild run and of course they

Didn’t know about Honduras I was I was hesitant I mean you just you know I mean it’s I know this part’s going to sound bizarre and I was petrified about the idea that people would know some of the things that I had to do and it wasn’t about the ending when you

Know you know the the you know I whacked them with you know with the rocks and stuff but it was I was more petrified about people knowing what I’ve done you know what I had to do and and you know you’re 12 years old and you know you

Just I I that’s what I was most petrified about it’s just I I I was afraid that I’d be wondering and I’d be having conversations with people and I’m petrified even now are they thinking about what I had to do you know and I know that’s

Warped but that’s I mean that’s just the God’s H his truth and you know I you know you think back and you wonder was I really that naive or that dumb my father had a friend that that lived with us that went down to Honduras with

Us and he’s the one that first started with all the the sexual games and I you know I look back on it and I’m like well again you know like how could you have been so dumb you know but he I trusted him I thought you know he

Basically told me that he was there to teach me and help me and and you know that was his job as as being a close friend and I I believed every I believed it I I didn’t you know it wasn’t it wasn’t until more people got involved and it

Got ugly and physical and that’s when I realized things were wrong and my mom had left after two years and I was told I I couldn’t go home with her I’ll never forget the look on my mom’s face when I told her I wanted to stay with my dad

Uh I mean it’s been in my head for 50 years now and then that year got awful you know and things just finally blew up one night you know it’s not like I planned on anything I you know it just happened what happened and you know then I had to basically wake them

Up I’ll never forget my he put me on a plane very next day uh and you know he used to call me kid and he’s like kid I’m sorry you did nothing wrong and don’t ever tell a living soul and I I’ve kept it shut until I

Opened it up and it uh you know I’m I’m glad I did even though I still struggle a little with it more than I anticipate ated uh but I have helped a lot of people you know they’ve they’ve you know I’ve had conversations with other other you know basically males uh because the

The males just aren’t going to tell anybody I don’t know if it’s just like our DNA we just can’t makes us feel I don’t know but you know so many men don’t tell anybody what’s happened in in their life but you know I I got to

Talk to a lot of them and and you know a lot of them have have opened up since they saw you know my interviews and stuff and since we talked and so that part makes it good that you you know that you were able to do all that you

Know and it uh it just really it’s kind of warped how people are how do you do that to a young kid I mean the the Ken green that I was supposed to be or going to be is never you know he’s gone you know that changes

You forever you know and it’s uh you deal with it it but it’s not it’s just it’s not right can only speak for myself in terms of of my reaction to it and at no point it was it or uh the immediate reaction was just sympathy it was at no point of

Uh was it how could you not know how could you the feelings you’re feeling are not expected for any someone that age you don’t have World experience you don’t know like you just you can’t possibly know it at no point did I you know how could was I thinking how could

You not know it’s just you that that was no everyone tells me that but that’s you know that’s what you know one it’s such a a vile situation when it gets stunned to you know the girls and and the boys that and it’s uh and it’s way it happens way

Too often and because it is such a terrible topic it’s like nobody wants to talk about it or nobody wants to to you know sit down and let’s do something about this you know because it’s it’s just too hard to to think about and and

Not enough is done and you know I I wish I could do more I wish I had more power or you know fame or or or whatever you would need I don’t know but uh it it’s it’s just wrong it just it’s wrong there’s no other way around it it really

Is and the only thing I can speak onto this is you you are doing something about it right your raising awareness to me today reading about it to everybody listening and to you know to to be on the lookout for these things I’m wondering if you have any you know

Organizations that you’ve worked with uh you know since since coming out with this with this story or or any ways people can get involved to help in any way yeah there’s there’s you know it’s weird because I’ve I’ve actually tried to get involved and uh I really thought that there would be an

Organization that would say Hey you know not that I’m famous but I’m I’m more famous than than most that go through this let’s put it that way you know and why not let’s you know but I I haven’t really been able to lock in with anybody

Yet uh I’m still hoping because I you know like I said I would love to try to you know get some new laws passed and you know we’re living in an age now where we’re giving everybody even bigger breaks to do do illegal things so you

Know I don’t even know what they would consider but um you know the punishment should be a lot harder than they are I mean you’ll you’ll never stop it 100% I get all that but if you make some of the punishments hard enough those guys and it’s mostly

Guys that are on the edge of doing that so young boys and girls you can stop a lot of them if the crime is if the punishment’s bad enough and you know I’m not saying it’s akin to murder because you’re still alive but like I said before you’re not the

Person you’re you’re you’re not you whoever you are going to be is gone yep your life is forever changed because of that well I appreciate you uh you sharing your story about that as well and you mentioned a story I wanted to make sure we we got as well the the the

What’s on your shirt about your your dog this is a story that’s been been told over the years but for those that aren’t familiar with your dog can see you know that’s a gator and a dog uh nip the talking about a dog who’s gone through a

Hard time herself the dog I lost in the in the accident we were playing uh ball in the backyard and I I threw a i hummed a a racket ball and she jumped up to get it and it caught her K9 and and literally flew about 30 yards into the middle of the

Canal now I I’ve lived there 18 years and I’ve seen one Gator and it might have been about this bit it was just you know there was never any Gators there and so I’m like uh you know what she’s do for bath cuz the canel water’s dirty so I

You know I snapped my fingers which meant she could go get it so she comes back at me and starts off takes off running you know leaps over the the five- foot fence just flying you know runs a few more yards and just takes this big jump into the canal makes this

Big splash well literally one second later there’s another Splash and I was like oh my God please tell me that’s not what I think it is so now I go running and I’m at the edge of the water now and here’s I’ve got nip swimming with the

Ball in in her mouth and this Gator is coming from the other angle and I’m like oh boy what am I how am I going to do this my my original thought was if I can run and jump maybe I can reach the gator and and you know scare it or whatever

Well I didn’t I don’t know why I didn’t but I didn’t so then I waited and just see if nip could avoid her or something and the gator got her uh and disappeared and I jumped in the water and I’m neck high and I’m waiting maybe it could have been 30 seconds it

Could have been 60 I really don’t know how long it seemed like an eternity and there was no movement you know I’m expecting you know some you know and and then out of nowhere about 20 ft from me uh the gator tail and back pop up and she’s drowning nip with you know

With her with her your draws so I literally walk at a slow pace to get there I didn’t want to startle anything I literally got with an inches of the of of the Gator trying to figure out what to do my first thought was maybe I could

Reach around the stomach and just hold on and hope but the gator was too fat was too big I’ll never forget the size of his of his back right foot because that’s what I was right on top of and so I decided all right I’m going to reach

Around the the tail and I’m G to punch him in the stomach and just hope I I did not have a plan I was just winging it and all I remember was he she lets go of the dog the mouth comes up you know wide open and comes

Flying back at me and obviously couldn’t reach CU doesn’t have that flexibility but as soon as it hits the water we go into this massive roll and I don’t know if I held on for two or 10 based on the all the the cut marks and and the

Bruised ribs I had I I held down a long time I’ll give myself credit and then finally I pop up now I’m swimming at this point and I’m looking all over the place and nip is almost at the water and literally about 15 ft from me the

Gator’s just looking at me and it was like I don’t know why it didn’t come after me because it had me I had no chance and I started swimming towards nip and rush her to the to the emergency clinic and uh 2 days almost died from

All the water when she was you know being drowned ended up with about uh 26 or seven stitches uh but everything went our way I mean if the gator had just slid in the water without making the noise so he’ have been dead if the gator doesn’t get

Her exactly in between her feet and her back feet you know she would have been dead and then if the gator comes back and me I would have been dead and everything went our way because this this was a big boy so it was uh you know

Again whether you believe in upstairs or or potlock it’s up to you to believe but it uh somebody somebody was helping me out wow well I don’t know how to transition out of uh a lot of the the stories that you’ve just told us but uh

You got to play in my favorite golf event which is the Ryder Cup 1989 at the belfrey take us take us back to like that time period take us back to what the Ryder Cup was like then it’s a huge commercial event now and everybody gotten you know a little crazy you know

And against the the love of money you know they have too many people out there uh and it’s too many people to watch just four groups and it’s a corporate show and you know it’s about money you know it wasn’t that way back then I mean

To it little a bit it was but you know what I tell people is players like each other now you know they they know each other you know they’re buddies you know they’re still grinding you know their tails off but when I tell you that there was about

Five of our guys that despised five of their guys and vice versa you know the the the fathers and well no father didn’t play but you know you had Langer and sevy and Sandy ly you know you know those guys and you know we had our Curtis trains and lanes and toms and

Weren’t real thrilled with those guys so it was it was intense it was it was what I try to explain to people is if you can imagine the last nine holes of trying to win a tournament you know where you know that pressure jumps up literally at the rder cup it’s every

Day you know right from the get-go on that on that first te on Friday you get that feeling of whoa this is intense and you know but as golfers that’s what you love I mean uh I you know I had a a blast I I was uh thrilled with the way I played

I played really well in three matches played like a pig in in in the a fourth match and it was tight we ended up tying which I don’t like I don’t know what you think about it but I don’t understand a tie and and the team that

Won it two years ago gets the credit I mean either call it a tie or have a playoff damn it you know stop [ __ ] putting things around it it just makes no sense to me but uh the intensity was something that I’ll never I’ll never

Forget it it’s I’m I’m just I’m lucky to have been a part of it I I really wish I had been a part of more but that’s you know things started falling apart for me from that point but it’s uh it’s a treasure I’ll I’ll never never ever

Forget what do you what do you remember about that that team room or some of those guys you got to play with what you know you obviously get to see a different side your teammates with guys like Paul ainger and and you know Tom Kite Mark covia guys that you’re friend

Funny because some of the Stars didn’t know me and you know again because of my reputation were they they didn’t go out of their way to know me you know like you know like Lanny and Tom and and uh both Toms Watson and kite but I I played golf all

The time with with Cal and Payne Stewart you know and those guys so I mean I knew some of them but I didn’t know others uh we were in the in the uh our little player room kind of introducing ourselves or telling some stories and

And it was like uh you know I remember getting up and you know it’s like well some of you know me some of you don’t and I don’t know what to know and what you’ve heard but it’s uh you know and then three or four I’m so

Well we don’t know about you either and we’re not sure we want to know about you it’s like but it was uh it was fun it was it was because we’re single all the time you know we’re grinding it out ourselves it’s good to have that release where you’re

You’re with you’re with somebody you know you’re fighting for a reason you know in our case it was you know the country and and the Ridder cup but it’s uh it’s just something you’ll never forget you know and you know some of the couple of the guys I ended up you know

Getting closer to and then a couple others are pretty much didn’t know him again it’s just you know just how it works because relations between the two tours they weren’t exactly chummy at that time if I if I understood right no well see people don’t remember is uh one

Of the reasons we didn’t like each other because we didn’t think they were being very uh Cooperative is we felt that they should play a minimum tournaments and they wanted to be able to come over whenever they wanted and so that was the big fight you know should they have to

Play 12 events which you know back then you know the majors counted and there was in the TPC counted so they really only had to play seven events so in our mind we couldn’t understand why you can’t come over here and play seven times you know the week before a major

Two weeks you it’s not like you want to just fly over for the majors uh and then you know OS you know back then it was a clash of you know who was the best player on the planet you know who wasn’t you know was it Curtis

Was it you know was it Sandy L was it sevie you know was it Watson you know that kind of stuff and uh it it was it it was genuine dislike you know it was unfortunate I mean I remember one night Cal and I ended up playing snooker which

I had never even played and we played uh WAM and and Clark oh God our ass is kicked you know calc and I are pretty good pool players but we had never played this snooker before and it was a different world uh you know we had a

Blast I mean but you know the male ego is the male ego and when you get super studs like that it’s it’s hard hm well we we’ll go uh wrap it with this but can you tell us a little bit about your relationship with the game of golf

As an UT and kind of your uh your involvement uh with with adaptive Golf and seeing the US uh you know that’s one thing I’ve been happy with uh you know lately I’ve been trying to get more involved with with the Adaptive Golf and and you know helping and doing whatever

I can because that’s again I’m I’m that perfect figure because of what I used to do um so you know we’re trying to get it out there more and uh you know when the USGA started their first one two years ago it was it was a really big step for

Our country getting getting it together and understanding that you know you can still play golf and there’s you know and this is just an estimate but there’s an estimate of about you know three or four million golfers in the US that are in that adaptive World in one way or the

Other whether it’s a leg or an arm or you know whatever is injury may be that to let them know that they can get out there and still play golf and that uh it’s good to have a reason to go play golf and golf can be it you know it’s

Hard you can do some of the other stuff you know you know look at the par Olympics you know they play basketball and they’re beating on each other pretty hard but you know golf is still golf is there and something you can do you know until you go belly up you

Know you you know even in a wheelchair you can only play basketball so long can only you know golf you can play until years 70 75 80 years old and you know so that’s that’s my hope that you know I keep trying to do whatever I can to you

Know open up the windows for for other you know adaptive people yeah well we have greatly appreciated hearing your stories I I’m going to be placing my order for one of these as soon as we finish here but your book is I’m sure there’s more stories that we didn’t

Cover in your book a hunter hunter of hope there’s plenty he said it’s called Hunter of Hope a life lived inside outside and on the ropes by Ken green you can find that at Ken green golf.com uh we greatly appreciate your time and sharing your story uh and telling some

Stories as well this was a fantastic time and uh we thank you for it thank you it’s been a pleasure buddy