Star Tribune’s Ben Goessling takes us inside the Vikings quarterback situation

Matthew Coller and the Star Tribune’s Ben Goessling discuss the Vikings QB situation and what the plan is leading up to the draft.

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Hey everybody welcome to another episode of purple Insider Matthew CER here and joining me on the show Ben guestling Vikings beat reporter for the Star Tribune what an off season it’s been Ben have you been busy you have a good time this is this is we’re not used to this

Signing players on day one of free agency talking about quarterbacks legitimately in the draft this is different man yeah it’s uh it’s moving at a speed that we are not terribly accustomed to around here at least in terms of uh the changes at the most important position in the game and that

Is going to dve I mean we’re not even close to done I mean this is going to go for the things to talk about the things to chew on are going to go for a long time so uh yeah lots to lots to discuss today and I’m sure we’ll have plenty to

Uh chew on for weeks months at a time here maybe even years depending on how we evaluate the quarterback thing that may be coming well it usually doesn’t uh happen as quickly as it did for someone like CJ strad where they know right away which gives us lots of content to cover

A quarterback but let’s not jump the line here because I want to go back before we get to the spot where we are right now and of course it can always uh change very quickly on us when I record a podcast but I want to go back to the

Decision because the way I feel about this offseason Ben is that it’s gone perfectly to plan how we would have drawn it up from the day quacy adafa and Kevin oconnell got here to compete to slowly tear down last year move on from some of the older parts and then now to

Draft a quarterback uh but the decision was muddied up by Kirk Cousins love and appreciation for the way that he played in 2022 and then the way he was playing right before he got hurt and I think the biggest question that a lot of people had going into the decision 2024 the

Biggest in the country in my opinion uh for decisions uh but uh like going into it there was a question if they would bring back Kirk if they would pay his dollar figure so take me back first through that decision to where we got now and and what went into that process

From your understanding yeah it’s interesting because they wanted him back I mean they talked about that fairly publicly but in negotiations my understanding is there was a pretty firm line just as there was last year and a lot of that was the guarantee structure when he talked to us

In January he said the structure is the most important thing and that’s everything that’s not the dollars that was not an accident I don’t think because a lot of that was informed by what happened last year they were willing to guarantee the 2024 season for him or through 2024 last year it would

Have been guaranteeing 23 guaranteeing 24 not guaranteeing 25 my understanding this year is that they were willing to guarantee 24 again and probably offer some guaranteed money into 25 but I don’t think that would have been a full guarantee and they have had had a lot of

These you know where it’s guaranteed at one point and then it becomes fully guaranteed later kind of these rolling guarantees they like to use I don’t think it was the no question about it you were getting two full guaranteed years thing that he got from the Falcons

At any point from the Vikings so when you go there he is going to say okay well I’m gonna go look at my options and I think they knew that once he got a chance to do that it was going to go how it did because if they were going to get

Something done with him it probably would have happened before he got to the open market sounded like the offer he signed from Atlanta which would have been a very hard offer I think for anybody to turn down came in late sound like that came in uh just a few hours

Before he signed it or at least the discussions uh kind of got to that point uh Monday morning and obviously the Falcons make him an offer that he can’t refuse and and he’s gone but I my sense is that the Vikings were fairly clear and fairly firm in where they wanted to

Be because a lot of this was going to be affected by what they do next I don’t think they were going to ever give Kirk Cousins the type of contract that he got from Atlanta that effectively takes the Falcons out of the quarterback Market in

A lot of ways I mean Kirt cousins it in more ways than one got them to sign away their ability to get the next guy at least in this draft I don’t think there’s any viable sensible way for the Falcons to do that the Vikings were not

Willing to go that far and they said we want to give ourselves the option to get your successor in here and if you want to come back we want to have you back we want to have you kind of be the the the solution for now as we work on the

Solution for later but that is a weird spot to put the quarterback as well and I think they knew that and and ultimately he found the offer he found but they for all of their interest in having him back had parameters that were going to be tied to that and didn’t

Really move off of those parameters very much from my understanding of it so it it always struck me that if Kevin oconnell had it exactly his way he would have Kirk Cousins as his quarterback for 2024 well Drake May or JJ McCarthy or whoever sat on the bench and watched

Kirk operate and then they would be ready to turn it over but the thing is in football Ben you don’t always get what you want and you can’t always draw it up perfectly and I know that everybody loves the quarterback who sits for a while because we’ve looked to our

East and watch it work for Aaron roders and Jordan love and of course Patrick Mahomes as well um so I can understand the fear from Kevin oconnell and I think this is one of the biggest discussion points is how oconnell feels right now about this situation because if you’re

Oconnell you would have looked at 2024 like all right let’s get some defensive players let’s push some money down the road let’s have a competitive season so I don’t have two losing seasons in a row a seven- win season does something to coach brain because the way the NFL

Works is if you have one or two down Seasons then they just fire you but I think that if the wils are in you know smart about this and that they if they have some patience in watching the plan come to fruition that oconnell shouldn’t feel that Terror and I also think with

The situation the Vikings can put a quarterback in right now with Sam darnold you could still win games with Sam darnold not 13 games but games and uh if the quarterback that they draft is ready to go then everybody could be talking about you the same way they’re

Talking about the Texans because of the situation that you could put the quarterback in but I understand from Kevin OK connell’s perspective that there is so much more work to do now I mean he could have had a couple of cabbo trips if Kirk is there right like I

Don’t need to change the offense a whole lot but now like whoever you draft you better really design that and tailor that to a Young quarterback yeah especially if it’s Jaden Daniels or somebody that plays completely differently than what you have wanted your quarterbacks to do and what you

Have constructed your offense to be it is going to be a busier offseason for him in that sense of it I agree with you though about the darnold side of this because darnold does not come in here with any Equity he does not come in here with any sort of tie Goodwill Financial

Or otherwise that makes you have to start him if you draft Drake May and Drake May looks terrific in training camp and you’re like this guy’s ready to go now let’s put him on the field week one there’s nobody that’s going to be sitting there pushing for no we have to

Stick with Sam darnold we love Sam he’s got all this history in the fan base all this you know tradition of success all of these things there’s none of that so if you get somebody in here that you feel like you hit a home run on and this

Guy is ready to go there’s nothing keeping you from putting that guy on the field that would have been a different story with Kirk and I think if they had done it if they had signed Kirk you you obviously know he’s your starter and you’re moving forward with him for this

Year and I certainly it makes it easier for Kevin oconnell the guy that has to call the plays design the offense make it all work in the locker room all of those things but I did always kind of Wonder and I heard a little bit of this even last week

That this scenario they were trying to pull off this this two-step that they were trying to where you sign Kirk and then you draft his replacement in the same year the trick to that was always going to be how is Kirk going to feel about the idea that the highest drafted

Quarterback in Vikings History probably is sitting behind him in the in the quarterback meeting room and sitting over his shoulder if they move up one spot in the draft and take a quarterback that quarterback is the highest drafted quarterback in Vikings History never drafted anybody higher than Dante Co

Pepper in 1999 at number 11 so if they stay where they are they match it if they move up it’s the highest quarterback in Vikings History so Kirk Cousins say he starts the way he did last year or the team starts the way it did last year where he’s thrown for a

Lot of yards but they’re losing games and they have some of the turnovers that they had how quickly is the fan base going to be calling for the replacement to come in and I I did always wonder how is Kirk going to feel about that and how

Is that going to inform the negotiations I think I asked him at the end of the season you know what do you think of this idea that they’re going to draft somebody and he said something kind of well I understand that they would do it they’d

Be silly not to look at it he never really said oh I’m I’m great with this this is going to be you know we’ll make it work I’m totally fine with this kind of an arrangement he basically said I understand where they’re coming from but then when you get to the negotiating

Table I do wonder how much that changed how willing he was going to be to come back and and what kind of terms he was going to be willing to accept so all of that I think colored the negotiations I think it colored how they would have

Tried to put this thing together and in some ways having a Sam darnold that you can kind of just push aside whenever you’re ready to do it uh it maybe makes it harder in the short term for Kevin ok conell but I think there is a little bit

Of a silver lining there in the sense that that player is kind of easy to lift out of the situation when you’re ready to go there so I was thinking as you’re talking about that of a time early in my H broadcast career where I had two jobs

That I I thought I was GNA have as offers and one of them dropped out and I was kind of mad about it I was like oh man I I wanted that one more than the other one so I ended up taking the other one and it worked out way better I think

The guy who took the other job got fired after like a year it was a total disaster whatever and uh I was like oh man well thank goodness that I ended up with this it’s sort of the same way where like in you could see in a coach’s

Mind where it’s like okay I’ve got Kirk and I’m good and then come back and we’ll draft the quarterback I’ll develop him on the side with a square jawed Josh Macau will set him over there and uh that’ll be all great but as you mentioned in practice it’s different

Than in your imagination where if you start two and four and he comes into US Bank Stadium and they’re chanting Drake May Drake May and not only that but you also wouldn’t have had the player that you were going to draft at 11 who you needed to help you right away so you

Probably weren’t going to be that competitive anyway also I mean let’s talk about the future cap situation they can put any amount of dollars into 2025 for any of these contracts which we’ll talk about a minute with the players that they’ve signed but now they could

Say all right we don’t have the cap space right now but let’s structure it for the future they could get whoever they want they could make a trade for somebody if they wanted to their flexibility is so much more open for the future because of this and then they

Don’t have to be turning it over to JJ McCarthy in 2026 and be going oh yeah but we do have that dead cap hit that’s like $28 million right so after this after this year they’re rid of it and now they can bring somebody else in and

Get them going right away plus whoever they draft gets to feel like the guy right off the bat you are the guy but but we got to talk about the draft part of it so they make this trade with the Texans and then I assumed Ben that I

Shouldn’t even do a reaction podcast because there was another trade coming what is what is your I uh um what is your sense for what is going on with the trade for Houston and what that means for next and maybe at a timeline for this yeah yeah I mean it’s interesting

To me because I I don’t for a second think they made that trade with the idea of well let’s just give ourselves two swings at it in the first round I I think that trade was 100% made with the idea that you’re taking those two picks and probably another first rounder and

Trying to move up to get your quarterback I think that has been their approach the whole time they’re not going to take a half measure and saywell this is the guy that’s here we don’t love him but he’s he’s available to us let’s just take him and and try to make

The best of it I think the plan here is let’s swing for the fences let’s get the guy that we’re in love with and do what we have to do to get him so I think this trade was 100% about moving up to get who you want to get there’s been a lot

Of discussion over the weekend about did quacy have kind of a a handshake agreement with one of those teams in the top five you know maybe the the Cardinals at four maybe the Chargers at five about moving up to go get your guy uh my question with that I guess would

Be if that’s the case can you bank on that I mean they have more first round picks to play with than any of the other teams that would try to move up but if that’s going to be the the way it goes why wouldn’t you just go get that done

And kind of like you’re saying Turn Around make sure you have it make sure you lock it in maybe they are still trying to see what they can do trying to to play a few different teams against each other to see what kind of offer

They can get but it is a I think there’s a little bit of risk in it I there’s probably pieces of this that we don’t know there’s probably things discussions that are happening that make them think we’re going to be fine with getting to where we need to get to to get the

Quarterback we want I am if you move up to four with the Cardinals who don’t need a quarterback that feels a little risky to me in the sense of if it goes Williams Daniels May then you’re JJ McCarthy you don’t really get a shot at

Any of the other guys I would think the hope would be to try to get to three with the Patriots but you know maybe there’s still a little bit of negotiation that has to go on there I I would think you’d want to be no lower than three so you sort of assure

Yourself you’re getting one of those three whether it’s well will it won’t be Williams it’s at that point it’s either Daniels or May and then if you like McCarthy better you can play with that too but I I would think you’d want to give yourself at least the option to get

One of those guys my impression would be that Drake May if you can get him would be the guy that they would kind of say let let’s go I me I think they like him a lot and I think he fits really well so that’s the name that I kind of keep an

Eye on is how what would it take for them to get Drake May and when I’m putting together the puzzle pieces uh as you know we got like the yarn and the clipping and everything we’re just putting it together but the always It’s Always Sunny Guy where doing all the the

The scenarios and this fits with this and it all fits together this kind of thing Cliff kingsberry worked with Kyler Murray running quarterback Marcus Mariota was signed by Washington to be their backup they got rid of Sam Howell more of a pocket quarterback all of this is sort of looking like Jaden Daniels

Right for them that that they’re bringing in somebody who’s worked with a running quarterback before how well he worked with that running quarterback may be up for a debate but uh now number three though is so interesting because if I’m the New England Patriots I want

Also to be able to pick my guy if they want a quarterback so part of this discussion has to either be talking them out of a quarterback or talking about some other maneuvering where they move back to 11 and then back up to four because I don’t know there’s something

About the Patriots that screams JJ McCarthy to me it could be that their legendary quarterback back was for Michigan the whole idea in the world yeah like yeah right he’s he’s a winner that kind of thing you know like that that would you could see Robert Craft

Being like Oh yeah it looks like a shorter Tom Brady um whereas I think and you and you mentioned Drake may I think that your instincts are similar to mine on this with uh Kevin oconnell that he would want to go up to three to try to guarantee himself Drake May and worst

Case scenario Washington surprises us and you still get Daniels but I think there are tear to this I think Caleb Williams is in his own tier and he’s number one with a bullet but then the the next tier is clearly Daniels and May and after that there’s a drop off to JJ

McCarthy I think the Vikings should be fine if it’s JJ McCarthy but I just look at Drake May and I go Kevin oconnell I mean the way that he throws the football and and that was look we we heard this from oconnell when we sat down with him

At the combine I mean he said number one is how you throw the football that and which of course sense but sometimes gets lost in the wash of draft analysis but uh G give me your your take on that because I feel like this whole thing has

To be to try to get Drake May yeah I think it is and I I think they have watched him I think they have liked him for a while I think even last year when they talked about moving up they were always going to be a little bit reserved

In how aggressive they got because they knew that this was a really good quarterback class I mean even last year I had conversations with people thinking yeah this is this is already in their mind that they have this kind of Ace in the Hole with Williams and May at

The top of that 2024 draft class so when you’re looking at it that way when you’re looking at you know even this far back of how are we going to play all of this how are we going to negotiate with Kirk Cousins in 2023 and

2024 there is a plan that I think has certain people involved and it’s not just like I say it’s not just this well you know whoever’s there we be happy to have them and and we’ll move on and make the best of it I think this is going to

Be whatever we have to do let’s get the guy we want and I think Drake May is that guy I think Drake May fits very very well with what Kevin okon wants in a quarterback certainly has the arm strength and I think probably a little

Bit of the panach to make some of the throws that he always wanted Kirk Cousins to make I mean he would kind of allude to this every once in a while and Kirk would talk about it a little bit too this kind of friendly uh needling of

Hey you can you can trust yourself a little bit more here you can be a little more aggressive you can put the ball up to Justin Jefferson when we need you to do it um you heard a little bit of that dance happen with those two over the

Last couple of years and I think with Wes Phillips kind of involved in that conversation as well I don’t think you would have to uh urge Drake May into that as much you may have to pull him back but I think the the guy that thinks

I can throw it over the middle 18 yards down the field and put it on a spot is the kind of guy they want and working with a quarterback that already has a lot of that thought process involved is is probably a good place to start from I

Think that’s a lot of what makes May a good fit for what they want to do and I don’t think that you need uh drunken draft goggles to put him on and see Matthew Stafford and Drake may I mean his he is such a big guy that was

Another thing I was looking at like his size is actually similar to Eli Manning so he is a big dude and then the way that he throws the football the risks that he takes the gutsiness but another part of it Ben too is that I I don’t think that Kevin o oconnell wants

Anything more than a quarterback he can develop and could be his guy and you know he did that to some extent with Kirt cousin not exactly in a development but make his guy and kind of be on that same page uh but the fact that Drake May

Is young as well and I mean he’s coming from a program that was not that great didn’t have great teammates like he’s going to have a a pretty big learning curve and I think that’s what we’re talking about with Sam darnold but to take a young player with these raw tools

That are Stafford or Eli Manning esque along with that mentality that you could take risks and put it down the field with these receivers it all just ties in now it’s just making it happen and I because I if they did that the offseason

Gets an A+ for me I I don’t even know what flaw we could even find in it if they were able to trade up land Drake May rebuild parts of the defense and have their cap set up for next year to look as good as they did and they even

Added a good running back I mean so they got you every box checked if they can get to the Finish Line with this trade up and get their guy um where do you think or let me let me phrase it this way how bad did quy adaao menen need

This to happen because I I think that from his perspective we he seemed nervous that Kirk was GNA say yes that’s how he’s always seemed he and I think that this was his plan from the very beginning and it is being executed the way that he wanted to do it and this is

Why I always tried to say let’s be patient okay the 2022 draft total Calamity but let let’s let’s see it all come to fruition before we judge this but I also think that like from his perspective we know what happens to GMS who try to work around a kurk Cousins

Contract it’s not easy and you end up looking dumb sometimes because you have to sign Marcus Davenport rather than Jonathan grenard which is a much safer and a much better pickup so I think from his perspective he needed this to happen in order for him to execute his vision

For this franchise yeah I mean they came in in this weird spot where this competitive rild this the the phrase that you will hear us use more than you’ll hear quacy use because I think he vowed last week he said that phrase which I’m never going to use again I I

Assume that’s the phrase he was referring to was competitive rebuild that was always a tricky spot to be in because they didn’t have the cap space they had all of this dead money from years of Rick Spielman and Mike Zimmer trying to kind of save their jobs and

And have a competitive team on the field knowing that they were not built for a full tear down and nobody would have the patience for one with that group if they had brought everybody back it would have kind of continued this weird thing of of

You have to hit on every draft pick you have to hit on free agent signings you have to be able to massage contracts every year it is not a big margin for error to do that and we’ve heard quacy kind of allude to that at times of you know this is this

Is the way we’ve chosen to do it but this is a really tough way to do it and I think the fact that they I mean you you go back to last year with Eric Kendricks Adam thielen they did not push any of that money into

The future it was not let’s make these guys post June first Cuts so that we can save some of the money and kick it down the road it was no we will take the hits now we will get this thing reset I think there has very much been a

Mandate if not from ownership I I think quacy has interpreted part of his job as I need to get the cap reset I need to let some of this stale air out of the building so that we actually have some maneuverability to do what we want and

Build a team that is is Young and affordable and all of these things I I do think he has looked at it that way and I think the wils to a degree have been intrigued by this thing of well if we get a Young quarterback you get four

Or five years of financial cheat code if the guy is good so yes there was interest in cousins but I I think all of these things that we’re talking about did create a little bit of a buffer in how far they were going to go and we

Have seen GMS we’ve seen coaches in the past we’ve seen the previous regime say well you know I know we weren’t probably supposed to do this but man Anthony Bar really fits well in our defense and he’s having second thoughts with the Jets so oh what the heck let’s just go do it

This was not going to happen the same way with this group I don’t think I I think there was certainly a firmer boundary to this whole thing and some of that was having a Young quarterback some of that was the cap ramifications of Kirk Cousins versus a Young quarterback

So all of that led to this kind of I mean we heard him talk about it this like yeah we want him back but it’s a negotiation and we have our interests and he has his and it kind of has to be on our terms or at least compatible with

What we want to do if he is going to come back and and I think that this is something that you know we just sort of cruise by you bring up the wils here and they’ve taken a lot of arrows from the fans for not ever being willing to tear

It all down but I I do think in this case we have to go back to even last offseason to give them credit because what we know is if they want something then that’s gonna happen which is how it works in the NFL don’t you know don’t

Make that about a Minnesota thing uh that’s absolutely everywhere that the Johnny Manzel ended up in Cleveland is Haslam wanted him right and well okay that’s what we have to do right so like this is uh this is how life Works in uh in the big city of the NFL but uh last

Year they allowed quis adaao Mena to move on from those older players and how many times would you say a team wins 13 games and then says sayanora to multiple pro bowlers I mean what that was like five pro bowlers they let walk out the

Door that is a very rare thing and I think that the reason that they’re most set up to succeed is because of that because once again with the like God closes a door and opens up a window Josh Matt Tellis emerges all of the sudden Ivan Pace Jr gets his opportunity we saw

Some young players start to emerge here and how about Jordan Addison as well being their first round draft pick I don’t know if that’s the case if they’re not losing Adam thielen they probably would have just run that back and drafted somebody else so I think that

Like sometimes you’re afraid of what is behind door number two when in the NFL it tends to reward you for saying you know what a you know 32y old wide receiver or a running back who’s kind of washed like it’s time to move on from those guys and you can ultimately set

Yourself up for a better position and I think that’s why when I look at this whole thing the 2025 cap situation is kind of like the Ace in the Hole I think for this team where it’s like right now you’re seeing a little bit of it Jonathan grard is day on signing anderan

Gingle these are good free agents but sometimes khil Mack becomes available via trade or Tyreek Hill or Devonte Adams or whatever and suddenly you can be the player in that situation I think we could look at what Miami did with those things they trade for Bradley chub

Like that’s sort of now a model for the Vikings it’s not just who you could sign but it’s also who’s miserable player or player they don’t want to pay or can’t afford to pay that you can acquire so to me that is the biggest element of this

That we have to give credit to the ownership for is allowing it to get there like seeing the part one part two part three of letting those players go yeah I agree and because this has not been the way the wils have wanted to do

It and maybe they are not and I’m sure when we hear from Mark wil in a week at the owners meetings he won’t be conceding that this is going to be a rebuilding year even if you look at the state of the division you look at the

State of the roster and you you have to probably say it’s more likely than not that it will be a rebuilding year but they have not ordinarily been the team that signs off on that idea and maybe some of it is if there’s a quarterback behind door number two which I I suppose

The times that we’ve seen them at least flirt with this would have been 2011 when they had to draft a quarterback they missed on that pick obviously with Christian Ponder 2014 first year with a new coach they take Teddy Bridgewater that was not so much of a hard rebuild

Because they still did some things at free agency that year but there was more of this vision for the whole thing around Teddy Bridgewater and Mike Zimmer kind of building that partnership together obviously that didn’t happen because of Bridgewater’s knee and then you pivot to cousins but I wonder how

Much of it was being able to show them hey this is not just a tear down for the sake of let’s hope we hit on some picks there is a plan to this of let’s get our quarterback let’s reset everything around that player and then let’s go

From there it it has been a while since they’ve been willing to do this so I think some of it is credit to them and I have to think some of it is credit to quacy for being able to explain it and say this is where I want to go this is

What I think we can do with this and kind of being able to sell the plan because I I do get the sense with the wils that if the people they’ve put in place say this is why I think this needs to happen and why I think it’s the best

Course of action for our franchise they’re not so stubborn that they’re going to say no I don’t care I want to do this because this is what I watched Parcels do in the 80s with a Giants I I think they tend to be well if you think

This is the best thing for us and you think it’s going to work and you’ve explained it to us then we’re going to support it and we’re going to be behind you and if it doesn’t then we’ll deal with that later but I I do think they

Are the types of owners that let their football people kind of advocate for what they want and when it makes like I think it did here um there is I think there’s there’s enough Runway to get that plan in the air so to speak so the way that quacy described it was

Essentially presenting options to them and of course they’re going to pick the overall direction but that makes sense to me and uh maybe you push one option a little bit harder than the others if you’re qu Doo but he understands it he understands this advantage that we’ve

Seen teams getting and I think it Robert Mays of the athletic who tweeted out something like 11 of the last 12 teams that went to the Super Bowl or 11 of the last 12 Super Bowls have featured a team with a quarterback on a rookie contract

We all know that by now at this point I think it’s one of the major reasons why Vikings fans are so up on this idea rather than saying whoa whoa you got rid of our quarterback but they’ve seen it work for so many other teams hey those San Francisco 49ers are pretty stacked

Oh is that because their quarterback makes $800,000 like you think that Javon hardgrave was going to be there if he was making $40 million uh probably not now here’s one thing I I’ve had a weird feeling over the last uh week I would say Ben which is I’m having trouble finding the the

Holes or the flaws and so many times when you and I have done podcasts over the years we’ve been tearing it down we’ve been saying oh well they’re missing on this they’re making this mistake what are Rick and Mike doing and you know Mike’s losing the locker room

And Rick trading for Chris hearnen and our you know pets heads are falling off we just got like all these things over the years and I’m like now thinking wait do I do I sound like too much on board with this uh maybe because we had talked

About this exact plan for a long time but but before we get to Justin Jefferson I I want to talk about an update there but what am I missing am I missing something here am I missing something is it if they don’t get up to number three or number four is that the

Sort of thing that could go wrong here like what what am I not seeing that I should be criticizing but I’m not yeah I mean I I think at this point it’s hard to criticize it the the criticism could come if they miss on the pick if they

Either don’t get up to get who they want or the guy they take turns out to be a bust because there is certainly that possibility and history would suggest to us that one or more of these quarterbacks at the top is going to bust you’re probably not looking at the class

Of 1983 where it’s like Hall of Famer Hall of Famer 10year starter 12 year solid play I mean you know that that was kind of the actually three Hall of Famers in that class and then another solid starter with with Ken o Brian you’re probably not going to get

That you might but history suggests that that’s pretty unlikely so if you end up with the quarterback that busts in this then you have a problem because we’ve seen this cycle we saw with Christian Ponder where it’s well we have to at least play the Optics game long enough

That people think we were right about him and maybe quy wouldn’t do that to the to the degree that Rick did but they spent I mean Rick spent so much time talking about that 2012 season finale where Ponder had a number of big throws Aaron Rogers threw for like 370 and was

Throwing darts all day but Ponder hit I think a deep Crosser to jerius Wright and hey this is the sign that he can be the next guy and his numbers compare favorably to Drew Brees and Eli Manning through year one and two I mean you heard a lot of those things and then

Ultimately they realize Ponder is not the guy so we lose a coach and then you have to start this whole thing over that would be the banana and the tailpipe is if the quarterback busts and then you’re either playing this game of trying to convince everybody that he’s not a bust

That you just need to give it more time or it’s how do we reboot this thing if we have given up our 2025 first rounder you’re you’re not giv giving up on the new guy that quickly but say you are investing assets into this guy and investing reputation certainly into this

Guy and then you have to go back and do it again that’s where the questions become okay uh you missed the last time are we going to allow you to do it again I mean with Rick Spielman the answer was yes and then yes again and probably yes

One more time but are the wils going to do that with this group and what types of decisions get made by people who are motivated to sa their skin I think that’s always the question we saw that at the end with with simmer and Spielman was when your motivation becomes I’m

Trying to say my job because if I get this right for the long term and it becomes somebody else that gets the benefit of it what good does that do anybody that does start to change things and we’ve seen all of that life cycle of

Miss a quarterback try to hang on try to put it back together and then it’s just try to save a job we we saw that cycle so that’s the one thing I would say but sitting here now it’s a good plan it’s just you know everybody has good plans

On paper you got to make them work yeah and I’ll Barry this uh take 35 minutes into the show that I think that bill bich and Mike Zimmer are basically the same guy but one had Tom Brady and we all know this that you are a genius or a

Fool based on whether that quarterback is great or not and that’s what that’s why Kurt Cousins was always so difficult because he made Geniuses out of offensive coordinators where people would say wow Kevin stansky got this much out of Kirk hire him but he made fools out of head coaches because at the

End of the day they didn’t win enough games and if they draft a guy who doesn’t work out everyone is fired I think we all know that but the thing is what’s the other option I mean the other option was doing the same thing over and

Over again and ending up with the same results and the same results are probably fired anyway and uh other than that I mean what Russell Wilson you want to be Pittsburgh yeah no and when people were bringing up Justin Fields I like what like Justin Fields do you want

Again do you want to get fired like the only way to do this is to try to draft that guy and put him in the best possible position and this is what I’m leaning on here Ben is that the Vikings are not going to trade Justin Jefferson to

Cincinnati uh I don’t know where that comes from but that was a thing for a minute because it is so absolutely vital to the success of the player of what they have around him and if you just went back and and like totally changed things around think about it this way

What if Christian Ponder had Justin Jefferson Jordan Addison Kevin oconnell from the start now is he ever a great quarterback and Michael Jenkins and Jerome Simpson and then he doesn’t lose his confidence and he game manages his way to a bunch of wins because he’s got great receivers What If Teddy

Bridgewater who by the way was throwing to Charles Johnson and Mike Wallace What If Teddy Bridgewater came along at a different time where they had digs and Thelen and of course his knee didn’t explode but he did have digs and thel just on the bench which is the funny

Thing right it took them like half of a month to see hey Diggs is pretty good we should play him not only Charles joh hurt cordal Patterson as well sitting on the bench and watching Bad wide receivers although shout out Jerry’s Wright who’s a good player but uh sat on

The bench for two weeks not as good as Diggs and Thelen but the point just being that when you look around the league there’s a couple guys who are Transcendent I really think that you could take the roster from the keano Reeves movie The Replacements and put

Josh Allen on there and he would win a lot of football games I do not think that that is uh the case with most quarterbacks this scenario allows the highest percentage chance for your guy to succeed and that’s all they can really do so I know that it always ends

Up in being fired if it doesn’t work out but as far as process goes having the whole thing set up for the guy kind of actually reminds me of Carson wenton Philadelphia he wasn’t even that good but they gave him like Alshon Jeffrey Tory Smith the best offensive line in

The league a running game Zack SS like you’re doing everything you can to make this guy succeed yeah I agree with that and I think it’s easier to get there when Kirk Cousins was not their pick or their free agent signing they did not have reputation staked in Kirk Cousins

They inherited Kirk Cousins so it becomes a little easier to say we’re moving on because there’s not the admission that we were wrong or it didn’t work out quite how we wanted that is attached to it when you weren’t the one that signed him so I I do think that

Changes when it’s the guy that you draft but it also is not plausible to expect somebody that inherits a team a new coach new GM to go much longer without making a stamp on the quarterback position they were going to do this at some point of we

Want to get our guy and we want to develop this thing in the way that we want to and the way that it works out too is if you sign Justin Jefferson this off season most of the years of Justin Jefferson’s Prime are going to come with

A cheap quarterback I mean you are going to have Drake May or whoever it is that you take in the first round under a cheap deal through 2028 and that’s going to bleed a lot of the cash of the Jefferson deal out and then you’re going to have to make a

Decision on Jefferson probably again but that’s fine you you’ll deal with that in four or five years but most of his prime most of his his big 25 26 27 years you are going to pair him with a quarterback that’s on a cheap deal and in the case

Of Drake may you would be P pairing him with a quarterback that does not turn 22 until the end of August so there is a lot of financial alignment in doing it that way way as well and you know we have seen a lot of teams get to

This point with do we have the expensive quarterback or do we have the expensive receiver that the Packers got here with Adams the Chiefs got here with Tyreek Hill they obviously picked the quarterback both of those quarterbacks are going to be gold jacket guys that have Super Bowl MVP Trophies so that’s a

Little different conversation than it is with Kirt cousins but you may have that discussion they hope to have that discussion in five years if it’s Drake May versus another deal with Justin Jefferson but you can deal with that the Chiefs show us this year you can deal

With that if you have the quarterback locked down so I think even those conversations get a little bit easier to do it that way and uh ultimately even if it’s a little bit of a bumpy road in the first year of it I think financially it

Makes a lot of sense and puts them in in a much different probably much better spot financially than they were uh for most of the time that either of us have covered this team oh oh by far it’s always been a discussion of uh like waiting for you to tweet out how much

Cap space they have every structure of every contract looking are their void years they’re better not be ah there’s void years for Dean Lowry dang like you know that’s uh that doesn’t have to be a thing now into the future or those void years don’t have to kill you now in The

Following season if you do have to put those into a contract so uh on the Justin Jefferson front H here’s what I’ve been saying on the show Ben everybody just take take a deep breath just sit on the bench for a little bit just chill just relax that

Justin Jefferson will not sign until he knows what they’re doing well that’s great because he was never gonna sign today anyway he was going to sign in August or early September uh the way that these have played out historically is they always get a little ugly and

They always get resolved at the end and everybody goes away a little happy and a little unhappy and I think that that’s what’s going to happen with Justin Jefferson the same way it went with Nick Bosa that it so benefits him to just sign a contract that we’ll get there but

Along the way you have to really ignore the noise because every Insider wants to be like could something happen here uh most of NFL content is built and I’m guilty of this very much uh could this happen and you’re like well in this case I don’t think anything other than him

Signing could happen but uh am I wrong in the way that I have been talking about no you’re not and I I think on the NFL content front it’s the nature of the Beast when we cover a league that plays 17 games and not 162 we we just you

Spend more time in the NFL than in than in any other sport talking about what could happen or what might happen or I guess digesting at a deeper level what did just happen because there are just fewer things that actually happen than other sports in the in the pure sense of

This game was played here’s how it went here was the score that we we don’t have as much of that to go with so there’s a little more of that that built into the nature of this particular beast but no I I don’t think that you’re wrong by

Telling people to take a breath because number one these things don’t get done in March they get done when it’s about time to go to training camp or it’s about time to get ready for the season I don’t think after last year when Justin Jefferson turned down a deal that would

Have made him the highest paid receiver in the league to hold out for a little bit more money which is his right to do it it was two years out it’s fine but then you get hurt and then you see the risk you are taking by not signing that

Deal I think the fact that he missed as much time as he did if that happens to you in your free agency year that’s a different story I don’t think he will turn down the money at this point because ultimately all of this stuff we can talk about positioning as much as we

Want but in the end it comes down to a 24y old staring at a check staring at a contract that has we will give you this much with this many zeros in it in a signing bonus right now to say nothing of the base salaries you will get a

Check next week for this much and you can either choose to walk away from that or you can say I’m taking that and I won’t have to think about money for the rest of my life no matter what happens if I manage it the right way so I think

It gets done I think there’s every incentive for it to happen both on his side and theirs and I I get it that you’d want to understand what’s going to happen with the quarterback I I just don’t see it as an issue because the timing allows that to happen anyway

They’re going to do what they’re going to do at quarterback I think they will keep him a breast of what they’re going to do I think that’s fine but I don’t think ultimately him making the quarterback pick is going to happen nor is it going

To need to happen to get him to sign a contract I I just don’t think it’s that big of an issue it is one of those things where everybody has a vested interest in either you know carrying a certain side of it or just digging it up

Again for something to talk about you know whatever that happens to be the motivations for that don’t have a whole lot to do with how this actually goes and I think in the end whether it’s July or whether it’s August he will have a deal done and they’ll be doing the press

Conference with the broh hugs and everybody will uh live happily ever after they hope beyond that so I I don’t see it as an issue whatsoever well and uh yeah that’s how I’ve been looking at it and it’s just that we’ve gone through this many times we we’ve just seen it

Play out and it always has drama and then at the end of the day everybody says all right it’s kind of like the uh the office scene where they’re all pointing finger guns at each other it’s just like we I’ll I’ll leave like and then they’re like no you won’t because

You can’t because they’re franchise tags and it’s like what are you doing to quarterback it’s like it’s not your business you have nothing to do with that I’m the GM you know it’s kind of funny but we’ll get there I think and if we don’t then I’ll be quite shocked uh I

Do have a present for you Ben um uh to finish the show the Minnesota Vikings hired Josh Macau what a dream come true boy what a dream come true I mean all the years we’ve talked about Josh P in different ways now he’s here I can’t

Wait to meet him we haven’t met him yet uh just I’m excited this guy has been everywhere and what I want you to tell me is all the places he’s been so I have his Wikipedia page up here on my phone and it’s got listed all of the teams

That Josh played for and I feel like it should be even more here but uh how many of the teams can you name that Josh maau played for so we are looking for a total of 12 is that right three four five six seven8 nine 10 11 12 technically 13

Because one was in another League oh yes yes there was like a UFL thing or something there was but uh that counts if you don’t get it I’m GNA pass on that one for now that one he play in 2010 he played for the Hartford Colonials of the UFL shout out

To the UFL great League Denny green Dante c pepper in that League yeah who was a we can we can do a deep dive on the heartful Colonials another time but I’m I’m sure it was an epic run with that franchise uh we have the Cardinals yeah

As any Vikings beat Rider would know he play the Cardinal threw a notable touchdown pass to naol um the Browns which is where he would have met Kevin oconnell correct 2015 2016 yep yep the Jets where he met Sam darnold on the other half of that Meme with them fixing

Their hair um yeah it’s a great meme I mean it is it is it was a great moment that they caught that um are the are the Bucks in there the Tampa Bay Bucks are remember that uh he had an epic run with another team that

You haven’t named yet and got a pretty big contract to be the quarterback of the Bucks and um it didn’t work out to good yeah but who did he have the epic run with now you should remember this epic run um it’s like a it was like a

Seven game absolute heater for Josh Macau yeah yeah gosh who the heck was that with um it’s not far from home oh the Bears that’s right yes the Bears yep yes that’s right yes he did have a a crazy run with them they’ve had a few guys that that they’ve made

Momentarily famous with some those types of runs like Jim Miller in the uh I think that was the guy in 2001 that they just they won 13 and three and caught every possible break and I think that was the guy but well they had a Kyle Orton where he threw like nine

Touchdowns and they won 13 games yeah yeah yeah yeah they’ve had a couple of those kind of seas and so forth uh all right so yeah you got some work to do still here Titans I think right did you say Titans yeah uh he was not with the Titans no

Okay so let’s see here Texans Texans is correct yes 2020 yep uh okay so that’s six uh was he in Buffalo at one point he was not he’s he played in a playoff game with another team though yeah let’s see here um quarterback got hurt he came into the

Playoff game it was his one and only playoff game played pretty well wow all those years he only had one playoff game uh gosh why am I getting stumped on these um quarterback got hurt that would be the Philadelphia Eagles where he came in oh yeah I knew

There an eagles thing in there but um was there a Seahawks in there there was not a Seahawks he played receiver briefly for a team though that you haven’t mentioned gosh uh you’re GNA have to sharpen up your M we This Guy’s in the building kind of hard um

There’s some I didn’t remember but this one I did Colts the Colts were in there right uh the Colts are not he played receiver briefly for the Lions oh yes yes and then there are some other ones uh do you want you want another guess or two or should I reveal

Some of the other ones we should I will take like one more guess but I am doing poorly enough at this that we should cut it because it’s not that interesting for people to listen to um yeah it feels like there has to be like a

Is there a Bengals in there there’s not a Bengals but you’re you’re sort of like barking up the right tree so I’ll just take you through Josh M’s career here started off with Arizona then to Detroit Oakland which I kind of forgot ah yes Miami Carolina hardford Colonials 49ers

Bears bucks Browns Jets Eagles Texans and then uh was the quarterback coach last year for the Panthers and now he has arrived with us at TCO performance it’s a story run he he’s sort of the quarterbacking equivalent of Levon Hernandez where it’s like he’s pitched

For everybody and uh he’s just got a lot of a lot of stories a lot of information a lot of knowledge to car on from all those years cannot cannot wait to uh run through some of that with him uh Ben great stuff um except for I’m disappointed in the Macau guessing but

Disappointed myself too I gotta be honest well you know you’ve been focused on some other things over the last week or so busy week so but I got half but then kind of fell aart yeah y yep well you would think also that random guessing would

Actually do well for you with uh this but you just you know seriously like there’s enough teams that you think you just got to bark up the right tree with some coach that’s been around a long time that brings him in uh just throwing darts like the NFL draft uh anyway uh

Great stuff though Ben and Vikings AIS podcast the must listen to with you and Kramer and of course the Star Tribune um really don’t have to tell people where to get that so uh great stuff is always and we’ll see each other down at the owner meetings and uh we’ll go from

There in a very interesting offseason thanks man yeah sounds good man thanks for having me always fun