Andy comes by way of Area 3. When Scott Arnburg was removed as Area 3 Director, Andy threw his hat in the ring.We talk about his beginnings in competition shooting and how to correct issues with the USPSA. This 3-hour conversation is broken down into three 1-hour episodes. Enjoy!
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Welcome to this week’s edition of The Casual Shooters podcast your Premier podcast for the Casual shooter this week’s guest comes by way of the Midwest and a an Instagram post that’s how I found out about this gentleman here now we all know that Scott arberg was
Removed as the area 3 director and Luke fa I knew had thrown his hat into the ring what I didn’t know was someone else had thrown their hat into the ring as well that is my guest tonight the gentleman who is more than likely going to be your next Area 3 director unless
Something changes and Scott comes back on the board tonight yes this is being recorded February 28th um because he will be uncontested so if you would join me in welcoming to the show Mr Andy Ericson how you doing Andy Dave it was nice and tight I like it it
Wasn’t then sound effects go like it was right on there well done non-scripted either good that’s good like that’s that’s the thing a lot of people are not good at like I’m I’m still trying to find a murder podcast that doesn’t sound like a girl reading a
Piece of paper and every sentence ends like a question so uh being able to talk of the fly is definitely a a skill to to learn for sure well having been a paramedic for 24 years you’ve got to have I’ve learned a few conversational skills throughout the years okay so Andy
Uh what I like to do is start with some ice breakers right up front they’re going to be the hardest questions of the entire show okay number one favorite movie The shash Shank Redemption it’s not even close the greatest movie ever made um the it’s just not even close it’s it’s a
Movie made from a book that’s really short and it’s almost everything in the book is in the movie there’s some like extra graphic stuff that was removed that did make the movie you know the you know prison rape stuff but uh I mean it was there it just wasn’t graphic it’s
It’s a just a f it’s one of the greatest movies ever made and there’s a reason it’s number one on IMDB’s top 200 but I have like a uh I actually listened to your last episode so I kind of knew this question was coming I have a I have like
A a 1A like the most fun movie anyone can watch is Back to the Future but orinal like the original all three of them are great but the original is just like the most fun movie they’re just they’re great my kids loved them it’s funny because not last night but
The night before on YouTube I watched the whole Johnny Be Good uh Michael J fox um scene no those movies are so they’re so good the the first one is really good but the the third I they’re all good like they’re just fun they’re just great
Movies a good friend of mine he’s not that much younger than me but he’d never seen any of them and I gave him my DVD trilogy that I had and said here go watch this that was like a year ago I still haven’t got it back he still
Hasn’t watched it so so there you go oh that’s not much of a friend no no he’ll learn someday okay so you know question number two then I don’t remember it though the movie one was the only one I remember book I did I did remember this
Okay and I did remember the answer I was going to say and that is with the old Breed by Eugene Sledge oh okay it is I I got it because it was one of the books based on the Pacific miniseries or that the miniseries was based on and I
Read that and just could not stop reading it it was so raw and real and not fluffy like if you’ve ever read read Band of Brothers it by comparison it’s fluffy it’s you know it’s like pop history and with the old breed is just like he it was him in you know talking
About everything that he went through uh I’ve listen since listened to the audio book a bunch of times and uh I think the guy’s name is Joe Mel that played him in the miniseries he does the Audi book reading and it’s in that in that voice
It’s really really good um no Far and Away that’s my my favorite book I have a 1A for that one though too uh the book Mash I don’t a lot of people don’t know it was a book first it was I didn’t know it was a book it was a book written by
Richard hooker and then it was a movie and in 1970 and the movie I I will fight anyone who says the TV show is better than the movie the movie is so much better than the TV show but the book is better than both it’s so good just it’s
Hilarious it’s one of the funniest books ever read but it’s also one no one a lot of people don’t know about so that’s kind of why I wanted to mention that one too so I’m cheating yeah I had two now I really have no idea what the next question is
Though I want to go back for a second because I downloaded that um the book with the old breed and helmet for my pillow I just haven’t gotten around to reading them yet so the helmet for my pillow is also very good but he was a writer
And it’s written like a writer so okay like that’s kind of the difference like the fact that he doesn’t know like he wasn’t an incapable writer you know he was a college professor he’s not uneducated or anything but he didn’t do it like it was Art you know it’s just
It’s just raw and plain and and like some of the criticism of that book is that but to me it’s like it’s strongest thing is the fact that he wasn’t a writer you know the way a lot of I mean he’s just writing from the heart you know he’s just writing what he
Experienced and exactly uh well and Paul Fussell is a guy who was also served in World War II and has written many books he is a writer and he does the forward for that book and he just gives it the most glowing forward you could imagine because it is just
It’s one of those rare books that’s just so like a a a regular writer a professional writer couldn’t do it as well as as he did just because he just had a way of explaining things that was just so perfect and I remember I loaned
That book to my dad and all of a sudden one Sunday afternoon he calls me we’re on our way back from Minnesota visiting my in-laws he’s like yeah that book you read loan me yeah that’s the best soldier Memoir I’ve ever read like yeah it’s pretty good it’s really good but he
Had read a lot of them so then I didn’t even realize how good it was until I heard other people talk about it and there like there’s not really much better than that book so well I’ll be reading it next week I have a total knee replacement so I’ll be
Sitting around I’m working on it I will read it good luck I’m working on a knee replacement I sat in a car for five hours last weekend and wrecked my knee apparently uh I don’t know why that happened but it’s slowly getting better but yeah okay all right so question number
Three was I don’t know if you’re into superheroes or not but if you are who’s your favorite superhero if not favorite historical figure um if I’m going to just pick just to answer the question I’d say Spider-Man um but superhero movies uh I think are dumb I don’t like superhero
Movies okay they’re it’s like the same movie 47 times with uh like I I just don’t I’m just not into them the only ones I ever was into was the Spider-Man ones and I don’t know why I like that’s the one where I’m like yeah those are
Okay I I like those but um but historical figure I was this close to being a high school history teacher until I switched Majors to broadcasting um ah favorite historical figure is uh the it’d be hard to narrow in on it’d be so hard okay cuz like I’m I’m more
Interested in like the every man than like the really famous people you know I think that’s why I like that EB Sledge book so good is or so much is because he was just a guy you know and so some of the I I think one of my one
Of another book that I really really liked was the uh I can’t think of what it’s called I have it here somewhere but the book Don Malarkey wrote um his was like pretty much all of the Band of Brothers guys wrote kind of the same book kind of except it was their
Personal details but his was his was more more raw more more personal more of his he actually talked a lot about his personal pain a lot um that was that was a pretty good one like uh I don’t know but that’s sort of not the question so
Let’s just say Spider-Man yeah we’ll go with that that’s good I I actually watched a lot of s uh Spider-Man cartoons in the 70s and I swear they had the best bad guys I remember those I was born in 77 so I remember when we still
Lived on the farm we moved when I was four and I have vague vague vague memories of oh the Spider-Man cartoons on or show or whatever and I would run under the sink to grab the coloring matte thing that was Spider-Man to like pull it out and do that and I that’s
Probably why I like Spider-Man but I remember I I I have vague memories of what you’re talking about though I I turned 11 in 77 well so I have very good memories of 1977 very Vivid memories okay number four is your favorite gun in caliber of all time and
They don’t have to be married together so it could be a 1911 and a 223 um my favorite gun is is one that is uh much maligned much panned uh uh and and and I completely understand and agree why it is but I still like it and that is the M14
M1A uh I just love the M14 I love that gun I just do um my dad carried one in Vietnam um that’s part of it but I just like it and I get it was dumb for what it was intended for at the time like why it
Happened and how it happened um another really good book American Rifle have you ever read that um I can’t think the same guy the same guy that wrote uh Washington spies wrote that book oh I can’t think of his name um okay that is it’s like the biography of every uh every service
Rifle uh going back to George Washington’s rifle um American Rifle a biography Alexander Rose wrote that and see it now it’s it’s a fantastic book back in about 2007 or 2008 he wrote it um the of course I skipped to the chapter about the M14 right away and the
Politics and the stupidity behind it it it like it shouldn’t have happened it really should not have but um the just the polit I had no idea how much politics would go into the picking of a service rifle you know You’ think You’ just leave that to The Experts
People who know what they’re talking about but that didn’t happen and then and then when they start rolling out the M16 they’re having these like foot wide diameter wounds in VC when they were testing it they’re like this thing’s amazing what they didn’t realize is the
Tooling was wore out and the the uh bullet wasn’t twisting fast enough and so bullets were keyho holding and hitting bad guys sideways but they thought oh my this is the greatest firearm ever invented but no I just I like the M14 a lot it’s and I traded it
Off because I wasn’t shoo shooting it I bought it to shoot service rifle matches but I wasn’t shooting those anymore I was shooting USPSA a lot and I was shooting limited and my buddy got a hold of me and said hey I’ve got a CZ tax sport Orange in 40 just landed today
Like okay I’ll be down and I didn’t have the cash to buy it out right so I traded that M1A and I kicked myself every day for it and cartridge go ahead if if I was gonna say cartridge I I’m less I don’t really have a strong affinity for anyone cartridge
I’m a big fan of 30 calibers I’ve killed a lot of deer with 30 caliber guns like 30 out6 or 308 but lately like my favorite cartridge right now even though I shoot way more pistol than rifle is the 6 mimer creedmore I just think it’s
Cool um it’s a laser beam I was shooting prairie dogs uh out in the middle of the state here last summer with it and it was it was so much fun it was it’s just such an easy caliber to shoe I get why a lot of guys use those six
Millimeter calibers in PRS and uh and and a fair amount use the sixth Creed too but um I I don’t know if it’s a favorite I don’t really have a favorite cartridge I just like I like guns and shooting and I I don’t know it’s easy to load for and
So I guess maybe that’s why I don’t know I should say 9 millimeter because I’ve loaded thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands and thousands of rounds of that but you well you’re your your 30 cal is your 9 millimeter of the rifle yeah pretty much that right there that picture was
Taken when you turned 13 or the year you turned 13 199 yep 1990 Marine Corps Rifle Team with an M14 th000 yard line practice nice yeah we have more in common than you know oh man no I I really the only thing I didn’t like about doing the the
Service rifle matches was that stupid jacket the I I just I wasn’t interested in wearing this straight jacket to make it easier to shoot like I I got into the shooting sport to like get better at shooting not use equipment to make shooting easier and so
I so when I heard a USPSA match going on right behind the the berm I was shooting into for the the service rifle match I’m like what is going on I thought they were doing an MP5 demo back there or something or or you know there’s National Guard out there shooting fast
Or whatever and I get back there and it’s just these guys in shorts and t-shirts running around with you know Han Solo blasters using the force to guide bullets and actually hit almost everything they’re aiming at I was like wow this is awesome uh I want to I want
To do that and yeah I got away from the service rifle pretty fast but I I really did enjoy it though while I was doing it I learned a lot doing it for sure the the other Factor the factor for me the reason I Swit because that’s
Still my first love but it’s so much more expensive than practical shooting oh yeah as a sport the ammo alone the ammo and look if you’re going I can drive most places and shoot a USPSA match and drive back and not be exhausted but a lot of times those
Service rifle matches are two days so you are you’re you’re driving down on a Friday like for me it’s three hours to the closest service map other than the one here at quanico which they don’t have that very often I have to drive down to North Carolina so I’m driving
Down Friday I have a hotel room Friday night Saturday night I shoot Saturday Sunday I’ve got to load my ammo I you know I’ve got spotting scope heavy jacket rifle all the ammo it’s just an expense and it’s an entire weekend for one match for what they would consider a
Local you know yeah what was your what was your load what did you shoot out of your M14 or M1A or what what was the gun was it M1A it was well that was a double lug M14 for the Marine Corp Rifle Team oh sure
Sure sure I had an M1 and then I switched out from that I started doing any rifle any sight and I used the the my Savage right here ba810 and 65 Creed oh okay and I was able to get that load down to a a 321 100s of an MOA at 100
Yards by loading the uh I I just don’t have the I load a lot of my own rifle ammo I just don’t have the patience for it I’m very impatient and but I also figured out after a while because I learned reloading from my dad and he was
Meticulous just trickling in that last little grain by hand he didn’t trust a machine to do that that’s I’m doing that and and meanwhile I’m like yeah I’m just going to use the RCBS dumper and get it in there and and but like I’m we’re shooting at the same thing we’re
Shooting at deer or elk whatever analou and I’m like all I got to do is hit this at 300 yards it doesn’t really matter if they’re you know just that close together or if they’re this close together like I’m still going to kill the animal you know so I I realized all
That extra time wasn’t as worth it now if you’re shooting longer ranges like I not a longrange guy I know nothing about it um other than I’m not good at it or capable but uh but like I get that it matters and you know as a competitor you’re going to remove every single
Thing that could be a problem uh to leave it to be just you are the only thing that keeps you from winning and and and I get that and but at the same time I I will find myself getting mildly really really really compulsive about my my pistol ammo sometimes like this why
Why are my bullets not seated as deeply all of a sudden you know or you know and it’ll just be in my head like I’ll just imagine a problem that isn’t even really there and but I never get that way with rifle ammo it makes no sense
But yeah I was talking to someone recently and you know I was saying it takes about I I would typically load at somewhere between 100 and 100 12 rounds for a match and it would be a minute per round so it would take me at least a 100 minutes
Just to load a 100 rounds and he said it took him two hours to do 100 rounds I’m like yeah it’s pretty close to the same thing it it takes is that with your like all your cases are already resized or is that like start to finish yeah that’s resized that’s
Literally just pouring the powder oh your case prep’s done already yeah all that’s done it’s literally pouring the powder seeding the bullet measuring each one of them yeah yeah that’s going just those steps yeah I would use a tweezer for each kernel if I had to one at a time yeah I
Don’t have the patience for that not even close it’s it’s hard but I I unfortunately I even with USPSA or practical shooting whether it be IDPA USPSA whatever I still have the problem of no I understand this is the aiming area but I still need to hit right here yeah
So I still have that problem yeah I started out that I got over that quickly when I the more I shot it’s like hey it’s just got to be good enough you know and I I got over that relatively quickly after you know and when I when I teach
Classes I people will think they need to shoot this when they’re shooting their pistol you know and it’s like no I mean if you’re hitting that that’s great you know slow fire um Sometimes some guy will you know he’ll think he’s hot stuff and he’ll he’ll be shooting this little
Ragged hole about like this until he gets to about 10 yards and then it starts to it starts to shape like this a little more and then it’s you know then he gets to 15 and it’s like that even sometimes I’ll have guys that’ll be really really tight all the way out and
I’m like cool go faster cuz like that’s that’s cool but you know uh now do it more quickly like this is a concealed carry class you know this is shooting to you know how you’re going to do Under Pressure not when you got all the Time
In the World to like make sure you draw a fine bead on that Target and just you know like you need to press the trigger Now where’s it going to land that’s that’s what I try to get people to understand that you know you’re not going to take all
Day that’s the thing about when people get into USPSA or like I tell people about it I’m like it will ruin going to the range for you it’s going to completely ruin an indoor range because it it takes something that was really fun and makes it kind of boring and I
Still go to indoor ranges from time to time when I need to but it’s usually just because like I’m testing something on a gun or something you know it’s not because I’m you know even in the winter Winters are pretty brutal here but um I don’t usually outside of classes I’m teaching
I don’t really go shoot a whole lot indoors even in the winter I’ll I just dry fire a whole bunch where is here uh sou Fall South Dakota oh yeah I imagine that gets chilly well it was four degrees this morning on Monday it was 72
So uh we’re having a very strange winter out here uh tomorrow is going to be in the 50s and then I’m shooting a rifle match down in Omaha about 3 hours south of here and it’s going to be in the mid-60s so it’s been a been a strange
Winter in this part of the country Norm we had some super cold it was we had a couple days that were 26 below zero uh with the blizzard going on but it uh was just the one time back in I think it was December but been a weird year okay now you
Said uh that you have been in the radio business yeah so question number five I try to personalize I was going to ask you for your favorite shooting memory but now I’m going to ask you what’s your favorite experience or memory in the radio business Oh this is this is such a weird story that will be hard to understand I I I almost hesitate to try and tell this story because it’s it’s one of the I’m afraid it’s gonna be one of those stories when you hear you’re gonna be like I guess you had to
Be there huh and um I no I it’s no I mean I yeah that’s gonna be a dumpster fire of a story definitely um I suppose some of the things that just sort of I mean some things that happened like when I was doing the morning show one of my
Favorite memories though was um people would call in here’s the the wonderful thing about podcasting Dave that you don’t know that you’re missing out on and that is the ability to people listening to you to call you and tell you how much you suck or how wonderful
Something was or to just join in on the conversation you’re having and it’s something you don’t get with podcasting and we that was our bread and butter was like the interaction with the audience you know during morning drive and I was I was bitching about my neighbor in my
Backyard built a fence like a wooden fence like six seven foot fence all the way around cuz he dogs and whatever and he wanted to build a fence and I I was you know exaggerating talking about it you know just doing this like fake complaining storytelling thing on the air just for entertainment
Purposes and I was calling it a wall he’s building a wall around his yard and my co-host was like what what’s your big problem I just don’t like it I like I why don’t be able to see my neighbors you know and and then they build up build a wall and
Now I can’t can’t get to know him or anything and we get off the air phone’s ringing answer we never took the phone calls live because we didn’t have a producer or anything it was just me and my co-host so I was you know the host
And I’m running the board and you know answering the phones and whatnot and anytime you heard a phone call it was recorded and played back we never air Live phone calls but this guy calls up and as soon as I answer the phone he’s like I can’t stand you leftwing media
People talking bad about Trump derer der he heard wall and conflated it with me talking about Donald Trump and Trump was never part of the conversation at all it was literally about my neighbor in the backyard it was just it was crazy but um another very memorable thing uh if PE
Sometimes people don’t believe me when I tell them this I I didn’t seek out the interview it just it landed in my lap I interviewed Hillary Clinton back in 2008 when she was running against Obama and the only reason it happened was because it was the one time South
Dakota’s primary mattered ours our primary is late in the election run it’s in uh I think I want to say it’s like in June or July it’s it’s like things are usually decided you know the candidates are pretty well decided by the time our primary happens well Obama and Clinton
Were really close that year and I was doing afternoons at the time was I was the program director most of the time I work there but um I was doing afternoons at the time and my boss comes down and goes hey I got a weird question for you
I’m like yeah what you want to interview do you want to interview Hillary Clinton uh sure yeah I mean it would be dumb to say no to that I mean all politics aside and at that time of my life I was how old was I 31 I didn’t
Really the politics of it was not big thing and actually I wasn’t even a I mean I was technically a gun owner but I wasn’t really super into it you know it wasn’t a thing I was super into at the time and so yeah I interviewed Hillary
Clinton I don’t really remember any of it I uh I remember making a joke about Wolf Blitzer and I made her laugh um that’s about it but um yeah those are probably two of the most memorable things I guess okay and yeah I mean that’s a unique opportunity yeah I got
To and I mean she was the most famous person I ever interviewed I I got the chance to talk to a lot of famous people um we got to interview and meet Bob Saget a couple years before he died um he was performing in a casino near here
And what a amazing guy to get to meet and hang out like we I mean he literally hung out with us after the show like it wasn’t just meet and greet like hey how we take a picture and bye like he actually stood there and chatted with us
For 10 minutes you know like usually meet and greets are like hey how are you nice to meet you picture gone you know shake your hand take a picture which is fine I mean it’s it’s cool um but he just sat and and chatted us up for 10
Minutes it was it was amazing um I got uh I oh I Kelly Clarkson hugged me that was cool she hugged everybody though um she played here in sou Falls and and we did the meet and greet or whatever and and the the guy running the meet and
Greet goes okay now I’m just warning everybody Kelly’s a hugger she’s going to hug you just deal with it if you don’t like it and I’m like hell yeah I’ll take a hug from Kelly Clarkson hell yeah is she as short as she looks uh yeah but she’s not as she’s not crazy
Short okay um like like yeah she’s short but I mean she wasn’t like 51 you know okay yeah she looks like she’s like 5253 but maybe I’m wrong I I don’t remember her being that short I if I to guess I would say like 54 you know it’s
A good thing I have a Google machine in front pretty close to average height for a woman yeah she wasn’t H she’s 53 I guess okay yeah but not crazy short um trying to think another interview I got to do one of my favorite interviews I did was I got to interview
Him twice was Michael cudlitz um if you don’t know who he is you know him he’s just he’s not like super famous yeah he was bu randman and Band of Brothers and okay he was uh he played Abraham Ford in The Walking Dead and he was also on a show that was
Amazing that got cancelled because of well it got moved to TNT because of Jay Leno was Southland was a cop show that was really really good that was the show I got to interview him about um he was really cool guy to talk to like he had
You know that’s the cool thing about interviews like is you can actually try and find things out about people uh that are unique that are a little more um relatable and and I just remember off the just out of nowhere I just said so if you weren’t acting what
Would you do he’s like oh dude i’ totally be in construction I love building stuff I was a uh before I got a good a bunch of good acting gigs I he was a union carpenter for movie sets and stuff and it was it was just really cool
To hear him talk about like yeah that’s to and he was just like completely proud of it like if the acting thing didn’t work out yeah I’d be building houses or something you know it was pretty cool okay yeah that’s uh yeah that’s pretty cool that’s what I like about doing this
Podcast is actually getting to know people who shoot not just talking about shooting but their individual experiences like this mhm is awesome and like as you as you talk like then you you start peeling back layers of that onion you know like whenever I would do an interview with somebody I always had
Prepped questions and I would try to think of unique things not just Hey when’s the next album coming out you know it would be like something I would try to be unique I would try to be memorable and I remember oh here was an Lou Anderson comedian I
Interviewed him one time and when I was doing morning solo for a while and when we got done he was so nice he is like you know you ask way better questions than most guys in a market the size of sou Falls I’m like thank you that was
That was very nice but yeah no it’s it’s it’s fun to like peel back layers as you talk to people did you ever have any desire to go the route of Howard Stern like try to go into a bigger area maybe even like Sirius or XM something like
That the well Sirius and XM or the devil when you work in local radio because they’re they’re competing media you know yes they are and as soon as I got out of radio I uh well actually it wasn’t got subcription it was about a year later we
Bought a vehicle that had a free year and I’m not gonna lie uh it’s the thing I didn’t know about Sirius and XM is it’s so much better than Spotify or any of the Music Services like that’s an algorithm just like oh he likes Metallica so we’ll we’ll go get
Uh a song that’s sort of kind of like Metallica it’ll be like you know the the baby killers from Hell or you know something I don’t even know and I’m like yeah that’s not no and Sirius and XM are programmed you know I mean it’s with a
Computer but like people are setting up the programming that’s the thing right that that a lot of people [ __ ] about music radio but what they don’t realize is if we didn’t play that song all the time someone else would and you’d be listening to them instead whether you
Know it or not and if it’s an older music format like a classic rock or something yeah you’re not getting that same repetition you know it would get really annoying if you were playing Sweet Emotion 17 times a day like we would I was on a top 40 radio station so
Yeah we were beating the hell out of Taylor Swift or Rihanna or whoever and uh yeah it was about every two hours and 20 minutes we would turn the hottest rotation over and yeah it was repetitive but it was like the top 40 songs of the
Of the day so that’s right that’s how it works and that’s what I really liked about when I started listening to music on serus was oh this is programmed like I’m getting hits I’m not getting random garbage that doesn’t you know it’s not just alternative hits of the 90s on
Spotify like you don’t know what you’re getting and sometimes it’s good and sometimes it’s awful you know the the one thing I like about Spotify is though I’m a huge I’m a hooligan so I’m a huge fan of The Who so I can create my own who playlist like
I have a playlist the who has so many songs I have a who song we’ll say a Van Halen song A who song uh name another rock band you know ACDC a who song then another rock band then another who song and it goes for hours I could drive for probably six
Hours and not hear the same song twice but serious though I can put on the NFL or 80s Channel and yeah like anything you’re you can you listen to a whole bunch of yeah the but like as soon as like I’m of a very very I mean and you
Are too I mean you’re 11 years older than me Dave but you’re not that much older you know you and I are old enough to remember a time where there weren’t cell phones where you didn’t carry all your music around in a little digital
Box uh it was in a big book of CDs or cassettes yep and with you yeah the cassingles they were amazing some of those sides of the cassingles I still have they’re great um the uh but I when things started going to computer and digital I remember being
In college and the guy across the hall had a CD burner and I was like this is amazing you know Napster was was the big thing at the time too it’s like I’m getting all of this for free and I’m burning it onto a CD and then when I’m
Driving C across the state back home I’ve got whatever I want my custom playlist but something I was also doing at the time I didn’t I don’t really have any of the music that I downloaded uh from Napster anymore but I was ripping my CDs you know as like when I got my
First MP3 player that was like the impetus to start ripping my library into digital form so I have I don’t have every CD that I own ripped but I have a lot of of them so I don’t need Spotify uh because I already have it
Like I have my library you know on my phone and listen to it that way and but I was just the Dork who did it I I like I didn’t I was doing it before Spotify or smartphones were a thing you know I was doing it to just
Have it in a portable version not knowing that someday I’d be able to just carry it around here and you know so it worked out you know I didn’t have any foresight I know idea what was going to happen but it was it was sure was
Convenient when it did yeah I mean when I in in the 70s when I was on the swim team or or doing whatever and my mom’s cleaning the house they had the eight track playing music and then we went to cassettes and then we went to CDs and
Now everything’s digital who the hell knows what’s next yeah the well the funny thing is it well it’s not next but it never went away was vinyl my my daughter wanted my daughter wanted a uh she’s 15 she want a couple years ago she wanted a turntable for Christmas she
Just I like liked the idea of it and so uh the only albums she ever had were Taylor Swift but now even she’s getting sick of Taylor Swift so God bless her she uh and she’s turning into a rocker man she discovered Paramore now and now she’s I’m like oh there’s the Gateway
Like Paramore is a good band like now and and it’s the album I can’t think of the name of the album but it’s it’s a good one it’s got some some good rocking tunes on it and uh uh it’s the first vinyl she bought that wasn’t Taylor
Swift I’m was like I’m so proud of you you you’ll have think Floyd Dark Side of the Moon before you know it she’s maturing exactly oh that’s awesome all right so it it you said at 31 when you interviewed Hillary you were a gun owner but you weren’t
Into it as much as you are now so I I was technically a gun owner because I got a 870 shotgun when I was 11 and it was at my parents house that’s about as much of a gun owner as I was when I was
31 so you didn’t grow up around guns oh yeah I did oh yeah no my my dad was a hardcore uh Big Game Hunter South Dakota is the Pheasant Capital pheasant hunting capital of the world um uh like it’s there are what is it four million pheasants are shot in South Dakota every
Year something like that um huge huge part of the tourist industry in South Dakota is is pheasant hunting like the when October rolls around and it’s the opener the airport is full of blaze orange and flannel and shotguns um there’s more guns at the sou Falls airport in October than than pretty much
Any airport anywhere that weekend it’s that’s not the week that’s not the month for Red Dawn to happen is what you’re saying no it could happen here but the uh it it would be a well it’s all birdshot I don’t think it’d be all that effective honestly but um it’s close
Range c yeah but um but no my dad was uh a big time trap shooter was really into trap shooting um I think he ended up is it double A whatever the classes are in ATA I can’t remember what he ended up being but um
He got really into it and uh was and kind of when when I started playing sports then he kind of started falling out of it because then it was like okay am I doing this or we go into his stuff and um you know and those are sacrifices
I haven’t had to make really because they haven’t been they haven’t conflicted with my daughter’s sport of gymnastics it’s in the winter when I’m not shooting so it’s perfect perfect but um but no I grew up uh you know first off shooting squirrels and rabbits and
Then uh with 22s and then bird hunting pheasant hunting like if you don’t grow up pheasant hunting in eastern South Dakota you were just in a family that didn’t have guns or hunt or whatever and and dad was also a big game hunter deer and Elk primarily and um uh so yeah I
Definitely grew up around it um got uh you know shot my first deer at 12 and um yeah certainly not handguns though I I do recall Dad having a Smith and Wesson revolver of some kind and I was 10 years old and I shot it and it
About flew out of my hand and I’m like wow handgun suck I don’t ever want to do that again you know and then and it wasn’t until I was uh it was like 2011 Thanksgiving of 2011 was a really nice day in my hometown went down for Thanksgiving and my dad was
Going to take the grandkids out to go shoot 22s out at the gun club which was you know a FIV minute drive from their house and I went with just was like oh yeah that’ll be fun and went with and he had the 22s but he also had his Glock 17
With and I shot it and I was immediately hooked like this is so fun i’ still been playing I’ve always been competitive I’ve always been involved in a sport my entire life of some kind and the only one I was really involved in anymore was uh softball slow pitch
Softball in the summer and but like I was a nerd you know like I would actually like practice like I’d go to the batting cage and work on that and and get together with a buddy and you know shag flies or ground balls or
Whatever and and so I I was kind it was it was I was kind of over it just because it was hard to deal with other people and and not hard to deal with other people but just I ended up being like the manager and I didn’t want to be
The manager I just wanted to show up and play and I didn’t want to be in charge of it and it just got to be this giant hassle team sports are great when you’re young but when you’re an adult and you expect others to also be adults it’s
Really frustrating and I I was ready for an individual Sport and I I played golf quite a bit too I was never that Nerdy with golf but it was something I kind of did and um but then when I you know shot dad’s pistol I was like oh wow this is
Awesome and I ended up buying that pistol from him for a hundred bucks it was a Gen 4 Glock back in 2011 you know they hadn’t been out very long and uh he allowed me to have it because he knew one my wife wouldn’t let me spend the money you know the 550
Bucks or whatever it was for a Glock at the time and she was scared to death of him she didn’t grow up around him she grew up on a farm but they just had one old rusty shotgun in the closet when a coyote wouldn’t go away and you know it
Was last shot 20 years ago you know so she didn’t grow up around it so it was sort of like a way of getting me eased back in and uh and I was just off and running from there so how old were you when you found practical
Shooting uh I would have been 38 well when I first found it I was probably 3 uh it was 38 when I started participating um three gun nation was on Sportsman Channel back in the day and that I remember first seeing that in 2014 and I was like wow that’s really
Cool I had an AR that I got a couple years before that but I had also that same year had bought that was the year I bought my I still have my first Target for my M1A um I bought in what was it October yeah it was October of 2014
Um and I it was you know was something I was interested in but like I I didn’t know anything I didn’t know anything about shooting I at that point I’d been reloading ammo for a year I I really knew nothing and so I had been watching that and then was Googling around and
Found on YouTube that oh there’s a club near sou Falls that has that does three gun and I I wanna I want to do that and so I got my 870 pump gun and my AR um and I read an article read I think by Jesse Tish Houser on opticsplanet.com
About hey get a just get a one to four variable scope make sure it’s got at least 100 feet of uh field of view at one power and you’re good to go I was like okay so I got a scope that was like that saved up spent the 300 bucks on
That old buris scope and then uh went and shot the match and was terrible it was absolutely awful but I had a lot of fun it was it was great and I was shooting with one of the guys that I was shooting with when I was a total Noob is
Now one of my best friends and he actually ended up on three Gun Nation and I think the last or second to last year they were on TV um he ended up on there but uh it I I was totally hooked and then I shot that first year I only
Shot the three gun matches and I shot the classifier only match for USPSA but I didn’t realize I didn’t realize if you hit the white targets that’s bad so I was just flinging bullets like it was three gun I just thought it was two to neutralize I didn’t know there
Was scoring so I was just like I was just throwing bullets at and it was a pretty tough classifier this one stage and I got a zero on it I’m like zero I got hits yeah but for every one of those five you got minus 10
Here and I was like oh okay that’s different all right well I guess you you live and you learn and so I got I found out real fast that pistol was not something I was good at as most people who start with three gun is their first shooting
Sport uh so I started shooting more USPSA and then that’s when I when it was only one gun and just the the more challenging aspects of shooting a pistol really started to appeal to me even though I still considered myself a rifle shooter for a while after that it
Became like all of a sudden I realized you have way more pistols than you do rifles you know and you’re way better with the pistol now than you really are with the rifle you know to just like pick it up and go I mean it translates
That in that direction but it I I just I was like wow I I guess I’m a pistol guy now I guess so yeah and so that’s when when it got going was 2015 okay and were you using that Glock when you first started yeah uh shooting that Glock 17
Um uh that was the pistol I was using I was shooting limited I the first USPSA match I ever shot though I was in production but no one told me you had to cap the mags at 10 Rounds so I I should have been bu to open because I was
Shooting with full mags in production but I only had three mags it just made well this is a production gun I guess so and then I when I found out that wasn’t the case then I started shooting limited and that was why and that was literally
Why I was a limited shooter was because I started with a 9 millimeter Glock and well I get more points if I shoot 40 and I shoot major so then I got a glock 35 off a gun broker and shot limited for a year with that and then upgraded to the
Tax Sport and then Co hit and I was actually sitting in this chair doing my morning show from here from home and and I kept messing with this Gen 4 MOS Glock that I bought the year before and I just was messing I I ordered a red dot for it
Just messing around and and then it became really obvious that this is this is something I wanted this I’m going this direction now and so I shot carry Optics like the last year before everybody shot it so I got one year where it was still kind of not everybody
In their dog is shooting carry Optics I got to shoot it like that for one year and then by 2021 every body and their dog was all over it and it’s still growing yeah yeah it’s fun hasn’t yeah yeah it is for sure so are you still
Doing radio stuff now no no I got out of radio uh in 2022 um uh it the the I still like radio that’s why I started podcasting was because I I I still liked doing it um I have another podcast besides Not Another Not Another shooting show called Andy’s
Things and stuff and it it’s it was just basically me sitting down and talking with somebody you know but it wasn’t anybody famous or anybody super notable for the most part it was just somebody I knew who I found interesting and then we would just talk and it uh I didn’t even
Really know what my show was about until Robert Wyatt from the parast he listened to it and was like uh you’re you just like get into what people’s passions are and then talk about I’m like oh yeah I guess you’re right I I didn’t even realize that’s what it was
But we would just like over the course of a couple hours like talk about what they were really into and so no I got out of radio in 2022 because the business height of it sucked um corporate radio is awful um there’s a couple of small companies that are good
But most of the big companies are absolutely awful they don’t care about radio they don’t care about the art form itself they’re playing the bottom line it’s it’s just strictly it’s it’s Wall Street they’re playing Wall Street yeah it’s just a business it could be you know
Selling coffee uh but the thing is Radio I think could still be really viable the fact that podcasts are huge are just evidence that radio is still a viable medium but the companies who own the radio stations have no idea what they’re doing with them they just don’t know
What to do with it and there’s there’s a few mom and pop companies out there uh smaller companies that do get it and they’re very far and few between um some of the best radio I’ve listened to is like super Small Town Radio and yeah I mean their jocks aren’t getting rich or
Anything but they’re they’re good you know like it’s good local content that I just enjoy hearing when I’m in another town um but so I I quit doing that uh basically what it came down to was um I was getting I had the number one morning
Show in town and they wanted to move me and my co-host off of mornings to put a syndicated show on wow yeah yeah because the syndicated show is cheap and then they’ve got a live body for the midday in the afternoon and I’m like uh this is a terrible idea and they
Didn’t like you know I after when I when I wasn’t on board with what they wanted to do then all of a sudden after 18 years I was a bad employee and I was like oh okay well uh went home had a talk with my wife and
I’m like I can’t do this I can’t work there anymore I told her what happened and she’s like yeah no you shouldn’t and uh used up the last vacation I had scheduled and then worked that very last Friday made sure I had all the music done for the for the weekend and the
Following Monday and then I went up to my boss’s office and handed him my letter of resignation and and that was my exit from Radio um i’ had been along with that starting in 2016 I started teaching uh the South Dakota permit class um you can like in South
Dakota you can just walk into the Sheriff’s Office and apply for a basic permit and it’s good in most States but we border Minnesota sou Falls I think is 10 miles from the Minnesota border and a lot of people go there and and we don’t have reciprocity in the People’s
Republic of Minnesota with the regular permit the enhanced permit does so that’s why a lot of people get that and uh being somebody who was almost a teacher and worked in broadcasting I took a concealed carry class and it was terrible it was it was not good and I
Was like I can stand up there and do a better job even though I don’t know the material as well I I can learn that right but the other half you ain’t got dude and I started doing math and I’m like wow and this was a cheap one it was
Only like 40 bucks and it was not worth even that but I I did the math and there’s like 30 people on there I’m like well hell that’s a that’s a pretty cool part-time job so that was how I end up getting into teaching was was doing that
So I got my I got my old NRA sht you know because you get that NRA basic instruct pistol instructor you know you you know what you’re doing then no you really um but so I’d been teaching for at that point six years and it was a
You know as far as part-time jobs go it was very lucrative as a part-time job it was paying for all my USPSA stuff all my I went to Nationals in 2021 the year before I quit radio um and it was paying for all my bullets and all my toys and
And it was paying for projects around the house too you know it was uh going well once I and my my the deal I made with my wife was um I’m just going to do this more and uh and then if if if I need to be
Doing something else I’ll do that too but I I just I I mean she had a good job we were okay financially luckily I had this thing to kind of fall back on and and make happen and yeah so it’s I’ve been doing that since
Uh well 2022 was when I got done with radio so I’ve been uh just doing more of the teaching and I’m still learning about trying to make that more of a full-time business you know turns out weekday classes are gold people don’t want to give up their weekends so I’ve
Started doing classes more during the week and nice I I get more people in those classes than the weekend class I mean sometimes a weekend class works out for people and that one will be full but I can count on a weekday class being Fuller than a week weekend class which
Sounds crazy but it does yeah but people don’t want to give up their weekends so that’s awesome though that you can you can do that during the week you know yeah yeah no I mean my summer this year is you know I’m I’m gonna do most of the
The stuff I can do on the regular that makes me more money during the week and then keep my weekends open for you know not matches family stuff um and then more of the you know sort of one-off class is I’m planning on doing like I’m
Going to do a a full one day like eight hour concealed carry class you know just shooting not not the permit not the law not all that stuff just shooting class start doing that the the thing that’s hard with those classes though is you know when because like I don’t teach
Competitive Shooters really like I I’ve helped out guys that are getting into it around here but it’s mostly the regular people the you know your average mostly newbies honestly yeah it’s just average people that have a gun and want to learn how to use it and the thing that’s hard
With a lot of those especially the ones that are men is well I need I know how to make the gun go off what do I need a class for you know like they and to try and get someone to realize that oh wow I
Really could get a lot out of a class you know it’s not until they take a permit class because I’m the gatekeeper between them and their permit that allows them to carry in Minnesota then they take that class and you know we do a little bit of shooting training and
That and then after that then they’re like oh oh okay now I get that there’s some value and there’s some guys that still have ego and they don’t they literally don’t listen to a thing I say it’s kind of funny when that happens I had two guys that were a father and son
God this was just so funny they when they called up to ask about the class they literally told me we don’t really grip pistols the way people do these days we’re we kind of do the Weaver thing like they preemptively told me on the phone I
Don’t have an open mind that which was fine because I just left him alone like you do you buddy like that’s that’s fine it was it was hilarious but yeah so uh no no radio anymore doing teaching I also uh got into some Commercial Driving
I drive a school bus and I love it it’s crazy I never thought I would have but uh that is crazy that’s crazy talk a year ago in the winter though I not a lot going on you know I’m sitting around the house doing nothing my wife’s like you need something to do
Okay well so I I started driving school bus and it pays pretty damn good for the four hours I’m doing it a day and I got paid to get a CDL which now is costing money to get it’s not like you just go take a test go drive and it’s over like
They’re requiring training now and to even get them so I got paid to get trained for that I upgraded that I’m doing a winter seasonal Commercial Driving gig with the state DOT uh snow plowing which has been a kind of disappointing because it’s barely snowed here this year so last
Year it was we had snow on the ground from December till April and this year it’s barely snowed and let me tell you driving a snow plow is really fun it’s a blast it’s so fun driving those giant trucks and throwing salt and Brine and
Whatnot all over the place it’s I I I’m I’m so much happier now than when I was doing radio just because of the the way the business was well that’s awesome now do you so you got in 2015 you get into practical shooting um did do you do any match directing R
Cro anything yeah uh I I usually when I get into something and I really enjoy it I usually go all the way and and uh so I started started off like a lot of I just went and took the RO class went to Omaha they had one in March every year so I
Went and there was a whole bunch of people from sou Falls that went down there for that um got the roer and then started arrowing and did that and and then uh and was content with that I wasn’t really looking to you know I I never saw myself as a match director or
A cro or anything like that it was just like yeah I’ll be an RO and learn the rules and I’ve always been a rules guy like I ref High School football for six years I think it was um you talk about you think us psa’s rule book’s thick
High School football nfhs has three there’s literally three books you have to learn to ref High School football it’s crazy and and they’re so you know all these weird scenarios or can be really wild but um I I en I enjoyed learning the the rules and and that sort
Of stuff and knowing what’s actually going on but then let’s see what year was it 2020 uh the gun club I’m a board member of uh seiver Sportsman’s Club in Canton South Dakota just south of here uh just as a honestly the idea was it was just to
Be a money maker we were going to become a USPSA Affiliated Club the sou Falls practical shooters were at a different Club Northeast of town and we weren’t trying to compete with them I mean they’re our buddies that’s you know that’s who we all got brought up on with
It we just wanted to do it in addition to that we’re planning on just having week night matches throughout the year maybe a a weekend match here and there when they didn’t have because they have quite a bit quite a few matches out there roughly every other weekend so we
Weren’t trying to step on their toes we just also wanted to do it and so I I was the biggest USPSA nerd at our club so I I took it on and was sort of spe heading that project and um was it that year no I think it was the following
Year go I don’t no actually I think it was 2022 I don’t remember what year it was I got my cro I think it was 21 or 22 but so we did one year of USPSA in 2020 and then uh after that year there was some drama at the Omaha club
Uh the section coordinator uh steep down the new section coordinator was actually from up here in sou Falls uh Robert olon and the their club like the the original Club up here was not big enough to handle a section match ours could be because we were expanding
At our club and and he said hey you think you can handle the section and this is like out of nowhere I had no idea this was coming I’m like uh maybe if we get some more BMS built uh we need to have a meeting can you come yeah so
Then that January we had a meeting and like we got to get BMS in these places done we got to get three other Bays built and all of a sudden boom that year we’re I went from being a first year match director of a club to a level two
Section match cord uh match director in the space of a year and it was a uh violent shove into uh good luck um my buddy Jeff who I do not another shooting show with he still says up swears up and down that first one we had up here was
His one of his favorite matches he’s ever shot um I tried really hard and and got lucky like that it went off without a hitch that first year and then years after that then I then I made mistakes like the even the timing of the stages
Like I didn’t even I didn’t really know what I was doing and it turned out perfect you know I just I kind of got lucky the first year and then the next year uh I thought one a stage was going to be fast and it was not fast it was
And we had a giant backup on that stage you know and those things you learn and and then I think it was 20 it was either 20 well then I shot Nationals I shot Nationals in 21 mostly just so I could see a big match you know I’d shot area
Three and I’d shot Great Planes down in Omaha but I I just wanted to see something different that wasn’t because those two matches were pretty much the same flavor it was 32 Round field courses all over the place and uh and some kind of craziness and I just wanted
To see a match in person that was different from that so that’s so I went to low cap Nets down in Alabama and shot that and then I think it was the f I think it was actually in 22 2022 I got my cro sht and I tell you what that
Class is really worth doing um the RO class the way they do it right now is it’s like checking a box like oh yeah you’re certified like you know you don’t really learn anything until you start roing people honestly um I think that class would be better if they did a lot
Of more online learning and then had people work with an RO because you learn it when you’re doing it you don’t really learn anything in the classroom you know you’re either a rules person or you’re not so like most of the ru like I’m still learning rule I learn a new rule
Every year there’s always something I’m like oh I didn’t know that you know um but the cro class just the stuff we did in that uh Ray Hurst did our class and and it gets way deeper into the stage design and uh at least the way he
Teaches it I don’t know how anybody else does it but it was it we got really deep into stage design and then uh and it got into it reminded me of being a football ref he would go deep into like weird scenarios like okay what’s the call for
This here’s this weird thing that happens and then we would kind of sit and discuss or whatever and he would just sort of watch watch us twist in the wind trying to figure it out and maybe we got it right maybe we got it wrong but uh I got a
Hell of a lot out of that class just learning about how to build good stages and how to troubles shoot them and um yeah the C class is I I think you have to be in R for a year before you can take that I think it is something like
That but I got a lot out of the cro class for sure okay now let’s let’s go back for a second you said you are a board member at your local Club yep I’m the treasurer so how long have you been on that board uh I
Was Vol and told to join the board in 2017 or 18 I think it was um oh you’ve been on there a couple of years been been on there a while yeah um okay and it it I probably 2018 I think is when I
I I found out hey uh we nominated you to be on the board oh okay cool um it was a club that was kind of in some flux it was uh like a lot of gun clubs it was run by a bunch of old guys who are really crabby and they don’t
Want things to change and the idea what do we need what do we need all what do we need BMS for we got all those trees there they’re pretty they’re the backdrop for the archery range well we want to plow those trees over and build
Pistol Baye and when we did it they were not happy and a bunch of them quit and uh wow but it I I don’t mean to like I don’t mean to be agist or anything but there is a to to try and deny that there is not a particular type of male
Individual who is a board member at a gun club when they’re over the age of 60 is to say the sky is not blue it’s just a thing that happens and I’m probably going to be one of those crab asses when I’m 65 as well but got I hope not um I I
Pride myself in trying to have an open mind about pretty much anything even though sometimes I’m not but um it was uh most of that drama happened before I was on the board like this all started just before I got on I was one of The Replacements of one of the guys
Who quit so and then when I became the match director for the section and it was at our club it was a really big pain in the butt to not have access to a debit card or a checkbook when you’re having to buy stuff for a match because
If you don’t have that access it just I have to go get it and it was such a pain in the butt and then when the treasurer left I was like hey I’ll be treasure please um then I can be on the bank account and and I’m not the only one on
The bank account like I’ve I’ve always been very forward about like hey anybody wants to look at the look at the check account go right ahead like I’m not I don’t have an only fans accounts or there or anything like everything’s school like don’t worry I’m going to be
Very very transparent with what the what money we’re spending so um and yeah so I’ve been doing that since gosh I don’t know I don’t know how long I’ve been probably since 2021 I’ve been the treasure which for some reason means you’re also in charge of
Memberships and our our club is sort of a dumpster fire when it comes to that because we have it’s just been the like it used to be you would go if you had a membership you would go down to the hardware store and get the key
And then you would go out to the club unlock the padlock and go shoot and then when you were done you had to bring the key back to the hardware store but if someone else was there you had to make sure you gave it to them so
That they could lock up and then get out or whatever and and so this culture of like being able to walk in and buy the membership at the hardware store is just ingrained in this small town well now being just 20 25 minutes from sou Falls we’ve grown so much because we’ve got
Cool stuff out there to do we’ve got a 300 yard rifle range with steel uh covered shelter that we’ve built we’ve got nine pistol Bays uh we’ve got another 100 yard range we’ve got a trap field we’ve got an automatic trap that members can use we’ve got some cool
Stuff to do there so lots of people from sou Falls are coming down and buying a membership so we’ve gone from like 75 members to like almost 500 now we’ve got a lot more money in the bank but now we’ve got new problems like people doing dumb [ __ ] the range
Like shooting the ceiling and shooting Steel in the pistol Bay with their AR you know like the stuff you should not do and a lot of it’s ignorance it just I a lot of people want to call those people stupid but some of them just don’t know you know I didn’t know you
Shouldn’t shoot steel with a 223 at 20 yards before I got into practical shooting I didn’t know that was dangerous and that it destroyed the steel I wouldn’t have known so but it’s yeah it’s it’s an adventure and I end up with a lot of the questions and whatnot
Because I’m in charge of I did the website and the membership system and the POS and it’s don’t volunteer well Andy that’s the perfect segue into the next part of this but I’m going to use the restroom real quick and then we’ll continue good call I’m gonna do the
Same I needed that yeah I I didn’t realize I did until you said that I’m like yeah I could go too for sure apparently the board meeting started as Seven Central eight your time so oh that was why and they’re in executive session right now there’s a surprise yeah
Shocker yeah yeah uh shocker oh can’t talk about financial stuff in front of the little people yeah that’s something I think should change it it should now I understand that there are some topics within that that you know maybe maybe some agreements between ranges that nobody
Wants out okay I get that but the rest of it is there’s no reason to hide it none whatsoever the I mean the bylaws are very broad when it comes to things that will be confidential it’s basically I mean if you just say financial information is confidential that means
They should never talk about anything money related ever publicly and that that is so wrong because all it does is hide everything it hides the good stuff and it hides the bad stuff and right that’s not good uh at least that’s not how I think it should be for a nonprofit shooting sport
If they’re on the up and up it shouldn’t you you shouldn’t be afraid of that agree totally agree so that brings us to where we are now in the show which is back in December Scott arberg removed as Area 3 director um and as I said in the
Introduction I knew Luke I’d heard Luke had thrown his hat in the ring I didn’t know that you had um until Luke posted the letter that he wrote stating he was withdrawing since you and him were the only two candidates he was going to withdraw thereby thereby invoking a certain bylaw which would
Basically elect you as the interim Area 3 director until such time there is an actual election well not interim it would I would be the area 3 finish out his ter it would yeah it wouldn’t just be the interim it would be the specially elected area director gotcha okay my
First question is being in area three what is the pulse of the members in area three we’re pissed like really really really pissed even people who don’t care about the internet drama of USPSA are pissed when I people I would hear talking about it um like we were in the
Offseason so like we don’t shoot you around here you know there’s some winter matches but they’re not even really USPSA um but when some people were aware of it some weren’t and when I would explain it or I heard somebody explain like what was happening to people who
Don’t pay attention to the internet drama they were like what you’re are you Ser they they got rid of Scott over an email I I like how Todd whel said it he he his crime was the equivalent of driving 56 and a 55 is essentially what
His crime was and uh as soon as funny story about that day um I had randomly just emailed Scott and said said it wasn’t random but I wanted to pick his brain about some match planning stuff cuz he’s been running matches at uh the anony Ikes club and outside of De Moine
Forever um he’s really good at it uh knows a lot about it and I just wanted to pick his brain about some stuff so I scheduled a call for him that call happened to be the day after the board meeting when he got the boot so oh wow
So this happens and we had like a 10:30 call scheduled and I called him I’m like hey Scott how’s it going he’s like well uh I’ve had better days I’m like no I know I’m I’m fully aware of what happened because the news kind of broke that morning of what had
Happened and because I literally 10 minutes before the call I saw the Ben stagger video uh and was like oh my God what the hell is going on and um I was immediately Furious I was so angry uh I I just it boggles my mind that the the attempt to hold this
This strangle hold on power was is so important that any disension has to be eliminated and it’s it’s just so stupid and in the process of this I was the first time I said it to anybody I was messaging with Joel Park about some I was trying to organize like a meeting of
Uh match directors and section or match directors in our in our section specifically because I wanted to I wanted everybody’s pulse on how the section match should be I’m not the section coordinator by the way that’s Robert Olen but I am the match director for the section so I wanted to get
Everybody on a zoom call and get a hold of everybody and I knew Joel knew a bunch of the the guys that were match directors further south in Kansas and Missouri I hadn’t shot down there much so I didn’t know any of those people and
I knew he could hook me up with them so I and the and in the process of this I was like eff it I’m I’m running for Area 3 if this doesn’t get fixed I just sort of said it angrily off the cuff in a in
A text message to Joel and then I was like oh wow I really meant that and so it sort of uh I i’ I never ever in a million years imagine myself in a position where I would run for an area director position um I not that I was unwilling to serve I
Just didn’t care to serve at that level you know and uh obviously I I do serve the sport I’ve been a match director now for going into my fifth year doing that a fourth major match that I’ll be the match director of um but I I didn’t I just
Never in envisioned doing that so um and then as that all played out um you know we we had the the meeting of the match directors in our section and we were pretty much all in agreement like we’re going to shoot less USPSA matches this
Year and and cut off money going to the org in protest for this and uh and then when when when Frank got booted for a day or two days then it was then I I I I had to remind myself I was an adult and like okay calm down right
Uh stop think you know let’s do this rationally let’s not jump to con or there wasn’t much to jump to the conclusion had been made but like let’s let’s be smart about this okay let’s not disaffiliate the club let’s not and the one thing I’ve been very very staunch on
With anybody I talk to is do not let your membership lapse you have to be able to vote to fix this and I even a guy one of our local guys here even said well what has that gotten me lately I’m like it gave you the opportunity to cast
A vote for Scott correct you made your voice heard and he was elected okay and I need you to be able to vote when the special election rolls around whether it’s me or somebody else I don’t care but you need to be able to vote to get whoever we send there and so
Yeah so that’s kind of how it all went down the you know people are very very unhappy uh uh Todd whitel he’s the match director for the Corn Husker classic down in Omaha um and he also was very I thought I was pissed he was even more
Mad than me I think maybe um uh so we we’ve we’ve talked on the phone quite a bit you know about the rules he adapted for hit Factor um uh adapting the pcsl rules to basically a a one Gun Sport that’s more like USPSA um there have been a few matches
Under that rule set that have been done and they and like Jeff was saying uh he’s like yeah I shot that match you know what it was pretty much like shooting a USPSA match it wasn’t really different it was just the divisions had different names that was it that was the
Only difference so um yeah so that’s kind of where we’re at right now the board meeting is happening as we speak they’re in an executive session which is a shocker uh right because anything Financial must be an executive session we cannot now it does say in the bylaws like finances
Have to be discussed okay well if you wave 10.2 isn’t doesn’t it wave the whole thing not just the parts you want to wave um that’s a that’s the thing that’s really frustrating like it says all financial information shall be confidential okay so I don’t think all of it needs to be
It needs to be more specific it needs to be stated employee matters and competitive negotiations like to me nothing else should be confidential there’s not a single thing agree and and honestly like when it comes to employee salary amounts I don’t think there’s anything wrong with that being out there either
Like the wage I’m making for state of South Dakota you can go look that up on opsd.org or.gov whatever it is you know I make 2350 an hour driving a snowplow parttime like it shouldn’t be a secret what the employees are making at the nonprofit like if we’re just being open and honest
You know it’s not it’s not that big a deal like if there’s disciplinary issues or other sorts of things like that I understand that that’s different you know but to hide behind all employee matters are confidental no not not all of them have to be I mean every state
Employee in our state their salary is on the is on the internet everybody every highway patrolman every dot worker everybody who works at the driver’s license place all of them are all there to to be found and there’s no reason why the salary shouldn’t be there other than
People don’t want to get crap for how much they’re making for what they’re doing you know yep and um I yeah I a lot needs to change there in my opinion well Andy you you do have you’re very busy um yeah you have you have the two podcasts like you said yeah you’ve
Got kids who are active you’re married you’re doing multiple gigs here um how much time do you have to devote to this um as much as it will take that’s something that’s going to be uh I’m going to be doing less of one of my podcasts for sure um
The uh the do gig is ending soon anyway you know it’s I’m I’m only going in and working like one night a week for four or five hours and then if it snows then I’m working a whole bunch for a day or two but you know um that that’s going
Away here pretty soon um you know I I go in and drive in the morning in the afternoon that’s just a few hours I busy but I’m I’ve gotten very good at scheduling if it’s not in my Google Calendar it doesn’t happen like if I hadn’t put this in my Google Calendar
Dave I would have forgotten to hop on the podcast I’m not gonna lie um if it’s not there I will miss it but I’ve gotten very good and disciplined at planning my days and and doing that so um yeah I’m I’m I’m busy but I there’s there’s room
For it um in my life so and I also don’t at the same time like I also don’t think like these board meetings are ridiculous I don’t understand why they are having seven eight hours of board meetings a month this is not how this should go um there’s so much just random
Jabber uh that we’re now finding out about what it was like before they were on the internet who knows um correct because you know people I’m sure were getting screamed at and yelled at you know for how dare you and this sort of thing um and now that it’s you know
On the internet for everyone to see it’s the tone is much different mostly I’ll say um but well they they made a strategic move on Monday did you which was as soon as I saw what they were doing I knew what they were doing as soon as all you could see was the
Document that y men was typing on and a tiny little image of him they were covering everybody else so that now you can’t see Donna roll her eyes yeah you can’t see the other stuff you know like they were saying Rick steel what is he doing playing video games or something
You know and I’m not trying to disparage Rick I don’t know him but I mean those were the comments that were coming out but I don’t know what Rick was actually doing but with Donna it was clear what she did there was and yeah no it was the I
Sometimes people think things are strategic and sometimes I think it happens out of uh inability to make it work better um I I don’t know if y Min is the host for that and he’s like doing it with a phone and a laptop and doesn’t have like another screen I don’t know
What what Zoom is the origin of it um but yeah leaving the you know where it’s just like the one the one thing up in the corner of the screen there is the only face you see while it’s going on maybe it was strategic maybe it wasn’t I
Don’t know but and I don’t really care if I see who’s on there you know I care way more about what comes out of their mouth anyway agre um you know I mean if Donna is rolling her eyes I I I’m pretty sure if I end up on the board I’ll roll
My eyes a timer too as well um but uh the uh I it it just I don’t think the board members should have to work 20 hours a week to be a board member I really don’t it it shouldn’t be this complicated yes there should be stuff to
Review yes there should be communication with members um if if things are less stupid there will be less communication to have because there won’t be as many people bitching and writing emails you know so you fix some stuff a lot of that goes away now I’m not saying like that I I
Well all I should have to do is show up for the board meetings that’s not what I’m saying what I’m saying is that the board should do what the board should do and that is to guide the direction of things and then let the president and the managing director and the staff do
The work but do the work the board is actually wanting them to do not going off on their own doing whatever somebody else said like this whole re-registering the Corporation in Alabama thing is just like that’s kind of a big deal now there’s some things where okay does it
Have to be a board like not every decision made for USPSA needs to be a board vote I think that that’s something I’ve I’ve seen people talk about where I’m like look who we get for the catering for Nationals does that that doesn’t need to be a board vote you know
There’s a lot of things that can just be a decision made by an employee and and that’s okay as long as it’s in line with the direction of the board you know I don’t think the Board needs to be activists they don’t need to go looking for things that need fixing that’s the
Job of the managing director like working in radio I worked with a lot of Charities we would have them in to do interviews and publicity for things and and some of them we got to know quite well and their board is not involved with all day-to-day nonsense you know
Like the US PSA board seems to be right they just guide the direction of the organization and you get somebody really good in there as that managing director and then they hire other good people under them and then you get a well-oiled machine and then you don’t have
To you know be constantly putting out fires as a board member like it’s should not be the board member’s job to put out fires that’s not what their job is their job is literally just direct the organization in a general heading you know now I get that it’s it’s a smaller
Organization you know in terms of like what what the org itself is actually doing but um it ju but it just feels like they’re always looking for a problem to fix like we’re gonna we’re going to fix this thing over here and we’re going to fix
That thing over there and and like just let the employees bring stuff and then we’re kind of like yes or no or if there is you know a thing that comes up like look we really shouldn’t be scheduling matches in states with mag bands okay um
I get that you guys want to do this but we really shouldn’t be doing that and here’s why there’s a bunch of problems with that like telling members that it’s okay okay to go to a state and break the law whether they’re going to break the
Law or not and you know I I know people who are like that was so stupid I’m like yeah I know but when it comes down to it were they telling people to go break the law yes they were and that’s so don’t schedule matches there you know if Colorado
Changes their laws great go back to Cameo um but I just it it it shouldn’t be a 20 hour a week job to be a board member and if it is I mean and if if you make it that way by just like reading and researching you
Know things that are going on that’s cool you know but you know I I really don’t think it should take more than an hour of my time a day to be a board member now it probably will at first you know but I I don’t think it should be
That way there there should be days where I don’t have to do anything you know as a board member you know it shouldn’t have to be this constant managing of Crisis and it’s kind of what it seems like it is right now yeah I would and I would even take that one
Step further and say if you’re going to spend that much time as a board member it should be just dealing with the clubs and the other Shooters in your area you know what I mean yeah and you know and as I was talking about that I wasn’t
Even thinking about you know visiting in your area yeah I was I’m just thinking about all the nonsense and but that was like when my wife was asking me like so what all are you expected to do and I like are are you expected to like visit
Clubs and like go all over the place I’m like well to a certain extent yeah um there’s a certain amount of money I guess that they set aside to help the area director you know go visit all the clubs in their area or not all the clubs
But you know make the rounds a bit and and and I think that’s a fine thing um I don’t know what the dollar amount is I think right now with the org hemorrhaging money it probably should be lower whatever it is or if we just have
A year where we’re like maybe it just visit the clubs that are close to you or if you happen to be shooting somewhere you know or we just drop that dollar amount way down you know um I’m I’m not a wealthy man but I know how to manage
Finances my wife and I don’t really have debt other than our house and one vehicle you know we don’t have a bunch of credit card debt I don’t buy things I don’t have money for that’s how USPSA should be run if we don’t have the money
For it then we shouldn’t do it you know Nationals needs to be held like that’s the one of the purposes of the organization and it should be but if we’re at a point where we can’t have five Nationals or six Nationals whatever it is then we need to cut it back you know
To two or three or four or two or three like because there’s and I like I’m not even really I’ll I’ll say two or three because multiun Nationals is not put on by the org like Forest Lake Sportsman’s Club is putting that on and they’re just
Paying activity fee so the org is not having to pay for that um so that’s not an issue uh I think didn’t they haven’t they given them money to help put it on though I don’t it was my understanding that they uh I mean they got some
Support I don’t know how much but for the most part it was my understanding was they just paying activity fee like you would holding any level three match you know like area three or area six or whatever you know they pay activity fee on the on
The match so uh you know the like Adam and his team are at Forest Lake or B basically they’re just dealing with it and then Pan the activity fee at least that was my understanding so okay um I’m and there probably was some help I don’t know exactly but I worked that match
Last year so I it was a good match it really was they did a they did a great job up there um but yeah uh I don’t I won’t pretend to have all the answers but I’m sure I’ll have opinions and you know right and I get that and
Nobody has all the answers that’s where you know a couple years ago I started saying you know we should lean on stop being so restrictive as to who can see stuff going on and include more of our experts that are members because we have a lot of people that I mean there have
Been several individuals who are accountants or lawyers or whatever who you know you could reach out to and just get an idea of hey what do I need to be thinking about here you know what I mean yeah something as general as that and they’re they may not want to actually be
In a position as like a board member or something but they’re more than willing to answer questions or help out here or help out there you know and I I don’t feel like we dip into that 20,000 active member pool enough I and like I’ll be the first to
Admit like I’m I’m not some you know genius business person I I I’ve been a manager I’ve had employees I have experience with that um I’ve seen a lot of talk on the internet like everyone who’s on the board needs to be like a super uccessful businessman and and I’m
Like no the most important thing they need to be is somebody who cares about the sport and wants to be a steward of the sport for four years that’s what they need to be first and foremost everybody’s gonna have a different skill set they’ll bring um I come from a
Marketing and media background there’s a lot of things that are I did a pod my other podcast I did last summer I did an episode with Y Min because he was at Area 3 and so I went over to his hotel and recorded an episode with him
And when he was rerunning after getting kicked out for nonsense and I remember asking him or I don’t remember how it came up but I just remember saying why why is the board so toned deaf when it comes to issues the members care about they just they do and say things without
Any any thought to how it will be received and the fact that they never do is just mindboggling I don’t know how you could ever make a decision like uh we’re going to raise memberships uh life memberships going from 500 to a th uh your annual membership will go from 40 to
65 we’re just gon to do that without any sort of plan to soften the blow you’ve already got controversy between the members and the board and then you’re going to do that out of nowhere like because the board the meetings aren’t live streamed at this time and all of a
Sudden we’re just going to tell you you’re G to pay more money and what are you bitching about you said we have financial problems what’s the problem what why are you mad we’re trying to fix that well because overnight with no notice whatsoever you just decided to Jack all the prices with like
That and why are you upset because you just raised the prices for everything out of nowhere and we don’t really agree with the justification you know what are you doing with that money besides setting it on fire and losing it yeah well and look I had a back the
Weekend before Shot Show y men and I had like a three-hour dinner in parump Nevada as I was at Prairie fire doing some stuff and he ended up coming out there and I said that should have been an incremental raise they should have determined they should have looked at
Where they want to be and determine the best route to get there you want to get there in three years you want to get there in five years but it’s an incremental each year I think I heard recently yeah I said that that’s how that should have been handled because I
Agree if the if those costs haven’t or the the membership fees haven’t increased which they haven’t since I’ve been member yeah me either then then maybe it’s time to raise them but again it doesn’t mean you go from 500 to a thousand for a life membership overnight
That’s ridiculous I mean when I talk to people that’s supposed to be I I talked to somebody and and I don’t want to I I can’t go into too much detail because he asked to remain private and we had a lot of private conversations but I found out
Some historical information and and that whole lifetime membership supposed to be roughly a 10year amount of money 10 to 12 years well now even at 65 you’re talking now you bump that to a 15year yeah you know it’s like wait a minute this is crazy
Yeah it was it was a little over what would it have been 12 and a half years previous or no yeah 12 like 12 and a half years 12 and yeah yeah uh would have been the old one but like the the amount of money like all of
A sudden I’m right now I’m a96 689 I’m an annual member I’m gonna have to Shell out a thousand bucks for a life membership here if this happens and right um I don’t know if you got through my whole podcast that came out today but
Um a a very cool thing happened um Kevin Hartman who was the uh section coordinator in Minnesota he stepped down last year they have a new one this year but um he got a hold of me and said hey uh because he was aware of
Luke’s plan that was a it was it was a plan it was not it wasn’t out of nowhere I’m pretty sure nobody thinks it was a a sudden decision Luc had got a hold of me a couple weeks ago and was like uh hey I
Just wanted to talk to you and you know make sure we’re singing off the same sheet of music and and if so then uh I’m just going to withdraw so we can get an area director on the board right away and so we had a nice 45 minute chat and
Um and I’m guessing he communicated that to Kevin at some point and Kevin got a hold of me and said so you set up a GoFundMe yet for your life membership and I was like huh yeah it’s going to be fun telling my wife about that
And uh next day he sends me a message he’s likew as soon as I find out uh that you and Luke are the the two candidates I’m I’ll I’m gonna launch this GoFundMe for your life membership and I was like oh you were serious whoa okay and and
And he did you know on Friday after that email went out he launched it and and and he I mean he he approached me first to make sure I was good with it and being a a you know of Scandinavian Heritage from the Upper Midwest and cold climates like we’re we’re tough prideful
People and like I I don’t need I don’t I don’t need I can hand it’s it’s okay like we I don’t need you to do be doing that is like my instinct and he’s like dude this is a bunch of crap this thousand dollars is just to try to keep
People out you have a family that should be you shouldn’t be taking a thousand dollars from your family you know traveling to your daughter’s gymnastics meets and stuff like that like like I could afford it you know would it set some things back a little bit Yeah it it
It would throw a monkey wrench into our finances temporarily but um or I could throw it on a credit card but like I said we don’t really carry balances on our credit cards um and he’s like look I think we can raise it pretty quick it’s not it’s not a it’s
Not a huge Amy amount of money to crowdfund and and so he and I’m I’m kind of like you know I’m I’m a little embarrassed but I’m like okay like he talked me into it and so then a few hundred dollars get raised the first night I wake up Saturday morning at our
Hotel in Rapid City to a text message from Kevin that said well I uh shut off the uh donations we hit our goal I’m like what what happened wow and I I went and looked at it and uh Ben stagger donated $630 to end it and closed it out
Wow yeah uh and I saw that I just got chills I got I was honestly like a little emotional too like God this is unbelievable the people in the sport are so cool um and of course I sent him a message thanking him I I had no words I
Mean it was two sentences I didn’t know what the hell to say and and his reply was just do your best we got to get this thing fixed and uh and I I sent message to as many of the guys as I could find on the ones that named themselves
Uh like I got a hold of a few of them and sent him a message over Instagram it was just like hey I’m really humbled thank you um which by the way if this doesn’t happen if Scott gets back in which would be my preference let me be
Clear my preference would be Scott arnberg be our area director 100% like I I said at the beginning of the show I never wanted to be the area director I’m happy to serve if I have to and I will do my best but I would prefer
Scott be that because he would be better he is better at it than me so um but at the same time though it was just like I wouldn’t have bought a life membership otherwise you know right and several of the guys that I did get a hold of that donated
Said like it’s complete BS that they’re jacking this rate up it’s just another barrier to entry to try and join the club to try and discourage people from running because they’re gonna have to drop a$ thousand dollar which I mean we we spend a lot of money in the
Sport like this is not a cheap sport to play so like like I said I I I could have done it but the fact that people in the sport were just willing to like hey he’s he’s gonna take one for the team and and go do this job that nobody wants
To do like let’s help him out and the fact that they did that I thought was really really cool so um yeah it’s there’s I I it’s it’s a weird thing too about the people I’ve met in this sport it’s like I have I have more friends as
An adult now than I did prior to practical shooting and almost all of them I met through practical shooting all of the people I communicate with the most uh one of my really good buddies Tyler here in sou Falls I was on the radio and was talking about I sh I did
This really cool thing called a three gun match this weekend let me tell you about this and he’s like oh I’ve I’ve always wanted to do that and so he sends me an email just like as a listener and and I he just asked me a a
Few questions and I ended up writing him this novel of an email with all the stuff that he I you you should do to you know get into it and he he informed me the last thing I said was make sure you help reset and was the last thing I
Ironed in but and now he’s one of my best friends you know we talk all the time and it’s it’s crazy how you know I I still I even said this on our show here a couple of weeks ago when uh Omaha had somebody at their Club pass away
Unexpectedly and and so Jeff and I were kind of talking about that on our show and the people you meet along the way and I it I I and I said it that and I still believe this like I go to matches first and foremost to shoot I go for
Myself you know if it wasn’t for that I I wouldn’t go but the other reason I go now is because of all these people I’ve gotten to know and all these friends I’ve made and and just the amount of fun we have hanging out giving each other a
Hard time it’s it’s awesome yeah it is so I have a couple of questions one of the things that when Scott and I spoke um uh one of the several times we spoke one of the things and this is you know part of the public stuff too is that there’s historical
Whether it be Financial or or whatever data that was difficult to come by for the board members what are your thoughts on any type of information being withheld from current board members uh it’s absolute lunacy why that would not be available I I there is no justification for that not
A logical one anyway or or maybe a legal one I don’t know um the Something eeman Told me uh a while back that I I was flabbergasted when when he said this is that they don’t really have like USPSA has been around a while okay there’s certain things and procedures and stuff
That that happen when I was the program director of a radio station I wrote an operations manual for the studio here’s how to do this and this and this and when there’s severe weather here are the procedures and here here’s the things that we do this doesn’t exist in
USPSA nope there’s no manual there’s no procedures written down for anything there aren’t a list of policies that have been adopted by the board written down anywhere there’s none of this now you don’t have to be an MBA or a former CEO to know like that’s a problem it is
A problem like the the board members particularly I mean it’s not for I I I didn’t I I didn’t throw my hat in the ring to run for the board because I I wanted to become USPSA royalty or anything I really really believe the board members are stewards it’s our responsibility right
Now to take care of the sport for the members now and the members in the future and the way you do that is you have to be able to know what was decided eight years ago because there could be a policy that says we don’t schedule major national matches in
Colorado and here’s why you know like for all I know there was a decision made but no one who’s on the board now was on then and knows that you know and I’m making that up out of thin air you know that’s not I’m not I’m sure that’s not a
Thing but but I’ve I’ve also I’ve also heard though another thing when I was talking to Yan last summer like we recorded a podcast for about an hour in his hotel room and then I sit outside and talk to him for another hour because
Yan if you get on the phone with Yan he will talk your ear off for hours and you pretty much have to say I have to go to bed now Yan something that was I I brought up to him was there are so many votes on issues that should be
Contentious that are 9 to Zer 9 to zero unanimous 9 to Zer no descending votes or you know dissenting vote right y dissenting vote I’m like how is that possible how can you vote on on especially when it comes to like equipment rules how is everybody just in
100 % agreement that yeah this is this is fine we’ll just change the weight limit on all guns to be just 59 ounces you know it it completely in my opinion ruined production and it made carry Optics less interesting even though it’s the most popular it it’s way less
Interesting that it’s not a production gun the way production used to be whatever the mag limit is I don’t care as much about that but the all these unanimous votes it’s just crazy how everything’s unanimous all the time and committee assignments yeah that’s going to be unanimous over and
Over again but other things there should be a lot more no votes on those things and there just never were and back in the day from my understanding in this conversation was uh when when new board members got on they were basically told by the oldtimers Don’t Rock the Boat don’t you
Get on here and think you’re going to do nothing don’t rock the boat and that’s what they’re it’s like okay okay I’m just part of the good old boys club okay I’ll just go along to get along okay and that’s that is not how it should be like
No I don’t have that personality to do that no no and nor do I and I if I think something is a bad idea I’m going to say so you know I I don’t I I don’t understand how things can just happen because because of inertia and you know one
Person says something and like yeah like well let’s let’s do that you know I I don’t know if it was a hive mind that got out of control or what but like when the bylaws got Rewritten a couple years ago like there’s a lot of bylaw
Rewriting that’s needs to be done a lot of undoing yeah um I’m a big Advocate as you might imagine for removing the the requirement to be a life member for a board member because if you already have to be a member for 3 years before that what added extra is there that
There someone’s a life member you know I mean if there’s some stipulation like you have to have a debit card on file so that your membership Auto renews fine whatever you know and as as we found out there’s apparently more than one policy for what a year membership is in USPSA
You know whether it’s what the what the website does or or if it’s just a year you know I I teach a lot of laws like self-defense laws and Firearms laws in South Dakota well before a chapter of the law starts there’s a list of definitions what words actually mean
Well one word that needs to get out of the bylaws is what is a year membership what what exactly entails a year is it 365 days is it the anniversary of the day or is it the anniversary of the last time of the first time you bought it
Three years later so it’s a year and a day later so now it’s two years and two days later but then the grace period still works is it that what is it we don’t we don’t have a firm definition of that there’s multiple versions of what a year is for
Membership that needs to be clarified confidential needs to be clarified further big time like what is confidential needs to be clarified and spelled out not like the confidentiality is like a paragraph it needs to be more detailed than that a lot more detailed people need to know EX exactly what is
Confidential and what isn’t so well it’s just like the rules of a game I need to know what the rules are before I get into this you know yeah it’s not that complicated and when we when a thing has a you know when there are rules we follow them
That’s the other thing we have bylaws okay whether or not I agree with the bylaw is irrelevant if the bylaw is the bylaw then we follow the bylaw so you know we don’t know what’s going on with the board meeting right now it’s happening as we’re speaking so this will
Be could be slightly dated when the once we know what happens once it’s over uh I I got oh apparently the A3 thing is still under review by the law firm no ETA good hell yeah uh I’m sorry I forgot what I was saying CU I I had I had a text
Message I I had a I had a text I saw I had a text message from the guy asked to give me play byplay while we were recording and and I’m like uh oh am I the area 3 director nope I guess not looks like another month with no
Area director yeah I’ve been joking Ben Barry is our surrogate Foster area director um so whenever I’ve had a question about something I’ve just been I’ve been getting a hold of Ben he’s a smart guy he might be the smartest board member we’ve ever had like it’s it’s
Good to have that guy you know definitely the wisest you know well and you know but like why is it something you always you attribute to somebody who’s older I he’s not he’s not that old you know I don’t know how old he is I don’t think he’s no but he’s he’s very
Levelheaded and wise and just like NOP stop here’s where we’re at you know it’s like you go Ben and and like I even like in that first board meeting he was at I like I thought like I didn’t mean I wasn’t throwing any shade or anything I
Just I thought he made a mistake by abstaining from that vote like he was doing it on principle and I I yes you know I understand he was trying to stand on principle it turns out because I I said something on a podcast after that and then it turned
Out like well he kept standing on that principle and turned out right so like I was kind of wrong when I said it but at the same time though like if there was a way to make this go away before it started like I would have I even though
I know it was not against the bylaws clearly the rest of the board doesn’t care about following the bylaws so let’s just go down this rabbit hole with them and see if we can pull off the you know the Heisman on this stupid get rid of Frank thing over nothing right and the
And like when I was watching that as they’re going through like the reason why it was out of order you know in the second meeting I’m looking at the thing on the screen that said the dates and I’m like he like he he missed it that year but that year didn’t
Matter it was he had paid for three years and one of the years was only 11 months you know because of the well we just always go off this certain day plus one day and it was I was like oh this is hilarious you know just so it’s just how
One person does it not necessarily it was just it was just how brel set up the website to do it you know right and when you actually looked at like oh he missed it because it was this but he had actually paid less than a year
Prior so is it the day he pays or is it the day the website says is his start date and then it back dates well if it back dates then it was still continuous you know like wh which is it you know like we need to Define things like words
Mean things what do these words mean we don’t know well I mean you said it earlier it was just a Witch Hunt so yeah and and when I did my editorial that’s what I pointed out was that was great by the way Dave when I saw that
Was like per near an hour I’m like damn go in an hour all by yourself like yeah I’ve never done that that’s a tall order you just you did it well though like you get into a Groove where you’re just like you’re talking to imaginary people and
It it flows good like that’s that’s how you do it literally yeah I I had that one had to be kind of organized sure you gotta PR that 100% but but no it was I was like oh how’s this gonna go went pretty damn well I thought that’s what I was worried
How is this gonna go but great yeah I was like I I I was nervous hitting that upload button you know what I mean yeah I’ve been there like how’s this gonna go and you I mean it’s it’s good to take that risk like sometimes when you think
You’re you know stepping out more than you should like it’s Pro if it makes you a little nervous you’re probably doing it right like that’s that’s when you know you’re onto something yeah I’ve got a lot of good feedback so I was like yeah right it was it was good so
Part of that editorial and and I’ve asked this of someone else I’m going to ask you the same thing what were your thoughts I assume you heard the quote maybe you didn’t of a board member saying I don’t know what the protest St about um when I heard that
I the first thing that popped in my head was gaslighting like I don’t know what this is about like pretending he doesn’t understand why we’re pissed uh well e even if you’re not a complete idiot and you UND can do any amount of deductive reasoning okay we kick out
Scott people get mad on internet we get less money how hard is that to figure out it’s a pretty short math equation uh I I don’t think it was that I think it was uh I I I don’t think it was being obtuse or uninformed I think
It was just an attempt to deflect what’s going on it was a it was a tough question a great interview question honestly as someone who’s interviewed a lot of people like that was that was it was a great question like I don’t remember if his question directly led to
It or if it was just something he said in the midst of answering something else but um I don’t recall exactly but like I don’t know what they’re about it’s about you kicking out or duly elected like we’ve had three four four area director s in the last three years
Four what’s going on you know right because we keep electing people they don’t like that’s what’s going on you know Sherwin became the president without ever having a vote cast for him by the way which is the only thing I don’t like about being unopposed I would prefer to have been voted
For that is the the the one thing I don’t like about this scenario where I may end up being the area director is I don’t like that I’m unopposed like I get what Luke was doing and I can’t help it if nobody else runs but um it was sort
Of a criticism of mine that Sherwin managed to become president of the organization without ever having a vote cast for him and I didn’t know that until I heard him say that on uh Brian’s Hunter HD podcast that he he was nominated to take over when somebody moved moved out of
The area and then he just kept running on opposed and never was never was run against because well I like sure when he shows up to my match why would I run against him he must be doing a good job you know and like a lot of times you
Know you know the refs did a good job at a football game when you don’t talk about the refs afterwards right but sometimes it means they’re not doing their job correct you know and so I I I would prefer to have been voted for but as far as like what is
This about that’s just I it was just a it was just a dumb thing to say like how can you not know what they’re about what it’s about I don’t I don’t understand I I don’t either I mean I have my own personal thoughts but that we can talk about that
Often I don’t and I don’t I don’t know Russell I don’t know anything about him I just know it was if if he truly doesn’t know then he needs to pay more attention I’d say if he truly doesn’t know then there’s there’s a bigger problem yeah you know
100% um so in in your mind what is the number one most pressing topic for the USPSA so let let’s assume that tomorrow morning you find out that magically they got word back from the law firm Scott is not going to be the area 3 director you are what in your
Mind is the number one most important subject that you feel needs to be fixed or whatever word you want to use um it’s hard to say number one but spending needs to get put under control spending is out of control we’re spending more than we’re taking in that’s not how I run my
Household my wife and I I mean it’s it’s not it’s not complicated if you’re making less than you’re spending either income needs to go up or spending needs to come down the easiest thing to do is spending comes down income is down right now because of previous decisions on spending and many
Other things and uh so to me the spending is the number one issue there are other things you know a lot of the the a lot of the protesting in Area 3 myself included was it’s 100% primarily about Scott being removed now if there’s an opinion that is not from attorney Jim
About you know what the law is in Delaware and when when I heard Ben reading the law and read it now it doesn’t and then there was a a like a Delaware Supreme Court decision based around that I don’t remember the particulars but boy it’s sure read
Like this wasn’t legal the way this was handled or that this bylaw is not even legal you know um sometimes there’s other case law you’re not aware of though you know um and what the threshold is for something it’s something my family’s had to deal with here recently finding out that uh
You know the law isn’t exactly what you think it is and because there’s other things that play into it that you’re not aware ofare you know case law primarily and um so you know that’s what it’s about here so like part of the problem with the
Protests is okay if if it comes back that no when it comes to nonprofits this is a thing that doesn’t apply so technically the bylaw is legal all right it sucks but uh when does when does the the protesting end okay to me it was pretty simple the protesting ends when uh
Either Scott is reinstated or there is a clear fixing of what is broken in USPSA when things are actually changing for the better one or the other and the irony of this is I could end up being a board member and a protester at the same time
This is this is a reality that could be coming true here very shortly and wow that’s a stark dichotomy I I I said this to someone earlier today that messaged me um I am uh God how did I say it I’m I’m not a oh I now I remember I’m
Not a politician I realize I’m getting into a political position and I’m not someone who would play well in politic politics you know the art of the deal or what you know trying to come to consensus on things that’s not something I’m I’m equipped to deal with I’m I’m not a
Politician at all I’m 100% a USPSA activist that’s how I’m approaching the board position I’m not uh I mean I’ve been very very publicly critical of the board over the last two plus months uh I’ve I’ve said some kind of crazy things on our podcast
And I don’t regret any of them and I realize I’m gonna end up working with these people or some of them because half of them have quit now but at the same time though I don’t I don’t regret saying any of those things could it lead
To an awkward moment sure okay but like I really care about this Sport and it needs to get fixed and these people I’m talking about on my podcast are the ones who are breaking it and that needs to end and I don’t really care if I’m hurting feelings when it comes to fixing
USPSA I’m not seeking to be mean you know I don’t I don’t wish to hurt feelings intentionally like be rude about anything but I’m I care way more about fixing this I shouldn’t say fixing the sport the sport is fine the org is completely screwed I care about fixing the org so
That the sport can remain great and right now there’s lots of issues and and they need to get resolved so you’re I mean I think you’re like most people the the number one issue is is the finances of the organization that’s gotta yeah got to
Get a handle on that and just what what we’re spending money on you know we have this magazine I’m aware generally of what publishing something like that costs it’s not cheap right is the revenue is the juice worth the squeeze you know um I don’t know I don’t know
What those numbers are so right you know if we’re do you feel that as a as a board member should all the board member members be privy to that information well yeah of course okay you know there’s there’s nothing once you’re a board member like this is not a
Government there’s this isn’t like the CIA has Secrets the president doesn’t have access to because of sources and methods this is this is a game Run by administrators and it’s a pretty cool game and there’s nothing that’s secret there’s nothing that needs to be secret if we’re talking about legal
Conduct there’s nothing that needs to be kept secret there’s no reason for it what would there be that’s the thing that like I I can’t wrap my head around what is the big secret maybe there is a big secret maybe there is not a big secret maybe it’s
Wanting to hide everything because we always hide everything it could be that too but it could be something else I have no idea what that is but uh as my co-host Jeff said he was there when Sheran drove off with that pallet of ammo in his truck after Wisconsin
Section so I don’t know um that’s a lot of ammo yeah I I I I I don’t know what the big secret is that that would be my number one question for anyone on the board what is the big secret why is everything such a secret I don’t understand the the
Finances are are secret because it says in the bylaws they’re secret okay okay well let’s change that let’s make them public and there’s nothing in the bylaws that says an area director can’t have access to financial information you know right do they need to go and dig up a
Bank statement from October of 1997 well I don’t know what they’d be looking for for that you know but I mean if there’s a reason for it there’s no reason they shouldn’t you know if it if it exists I mean it may not that’s really old but
Whatever it is there to me there’s no reason why especially when it comes to finances I don’t know anything about you know like I know how to run my household finances but like my brother-in-law has an MBA in finance and he does things with Excel I don’t understand and he
Actually he he got himself he told his boss to fire him because you don’t need me and he gave him a giant Severance and he went and found a different job so I don’t understand that kind of Finance but I do understand that to understand the trend of where your
Company is financially it requires historical data and to not give the guy who is best equipped to deal with that on the board and not allow him access to that data the only question I can think of is why I I couldn’t think of a logical reason to not give that individual or
Any other individual who’s going to be doing that that access and even if it was even if it was in the bylaws it wouldn’t be logical even if it said only the uh managing director and the president have access to that information well that would not make
Sense that should easily be part of a presentation given like the you know if if there’s an issue in some part of the business that the managing director finds and then they okay here are some options you know or here’s this problem we bring it to the board and then talk
About okay what would be potential options okay uh well is that going to cost us a bunch of money or is this going to be a smart investment or or whatever like that’s like to me that’s where the board comes in you know we should be taking care of the big
Picture stuff the president and the managing director take care of the the smaller day-to-day things and as long as they’re congruent with what the board direction is for those things and yeah I it’s no there’s logic and board meetings are not words that Collide in the same sentence a whole lot unless it’s
Preceded by illogical it’s just I it it honestly I said this to Eman last summer it feels like the the USPSA board is like a small town Gun Club board it really feels that way it it’s just it’s a bunch of guys who are on there and
They’re they’re just like well I like my thing that’s this and that’s that’s how it is and that’s how why do we do that well because we’ve always done it well let’s keep doing it then like that’s how it seems It’s been run for the last I don’t know how long
Yeah and which baffles me because I I look at the organization and I look at um where I live or where I work and you have a board of County Supervisors seven to nine of them and you have a county executive who you’re paying money to to
Run your Oran they’re doing the work they do the daily work they keep everybody on track and that’s what they do and if there’s anything they need to take to oh you know what we want to change our logo they go to the board the county executive goes to the board and
Says look we want to change the county logo and here are some options that we’re looking at here’s the cost this is why blah blah blah and then the board makes that decision but that’s when you go to the board to get their approval for stuff
Everything else is day to day this is where we’re headed here’s your budget you keep trucking and then and it’s just a report back that’s it I and I I mentioned this earlier the how the the it probably should just be defined in the bylaws like what
Literally I don’t know if it needs to be defined in the bylaws but there should at least be a policy of like what is the board going to worry about you know what can be done by the employees and What needs board approval you know something like a logo
Change yeah that should probably be bor you know that’s a big picture thing if it’s a secondary logo like the logo they have on the live for the meeting you know it’s got USPSA and live like if it’s a supplementary logo like we don’t need to approve that like it looks cool
That’s fine you know we don’t need to like not everything has to be a board vote you know and and I should correct myself County seal not County logo County seal County seal that’s what I was thinking I said logo but but no I agree with you any of that other little
Stuff yeah like if like there’s a I’m trying to think of it like if if the United Way is going to change their logo like their board should probably be involved with that you know that’s not something their managing director or CEO is gonna is going to do um and you know the
As far as being like a you know the how the it’s kind of tough to to find you know it’s tough to find employees period right now you know in many many businesses like unemployment in my state is incredibly low you know if you want to work you can there’s
No it it’s not hard to find employment in this state but if you’re if we’re looking for like the absolute you know best and brightest okay they’re they’re probably not gonna go to work for a a small nonprofit sporting organization you know that’s something I I’ve seen a lot
Online is we should be getting the best you know we should get someone who’s been a CEO what CEO wants to be a managing director of USPSA like seems like a giant step down unless they happen to be a USPSA shooter and they’re really passionate about it
You know and even then like you should that guy should probably be a board member or the president you know but um you know there like I there’s a a million issues and you know I it’s one thing like during the campaign I or when I thought there was going to be a
Campaign and you know like I was gonna go on other podcasts and you know have have a debate or whatever like what are we going to debate like uh finances or Fubar you know we got to fix those Luke ruined your fun you sure should but
I mean it would have been a whole bunch of like agreeing with each other it would have been the dumbest debate ever it would have been completely ridiculous like I don’t even know who to vote for they’re the same person like who do we vote for you know but
The but like I don’t I I’m not going to pretend to have all the answers you know that was something I realized I was going to have to come up with was like sort of a a a platform if you will um of like here’s what I’m running on but
Like all of us would be basically running on the same thing like let’s pull the org’s collective head out of its butt is what we want to do like that’s everybody’s pretty much on the same page there and uh how we get that done though would be the debate you know
Yes age the the way of solving the problem may be different and that’s where you know I I I’m I’m not going to budge on the things that need fixing at all how we go about fixing those things I’m very open to how to do that because I don’t
Necessarily the only thing I know we need to do is spend less or make more or both but how we go about doing that like what gets cut I don’t know like there’s there’s a a million different ways that could be done and a lot of them would be
Good some of them might not be but um how that ends up happening I guess we’ll see but all right so a couple a couple more things have come to mind since we’ve been chatting and and then I’ll let you go I’ve kept you for a
While oh I could talk all night Dave it I could too that’s my four hour episodes of my other podcast Jarrett Heinrich and I four hours and we could have kept going but his wife’s like hey are you going to finish or what yeah well mine
Had to stop cuz we were getting too drunk that’s why we had to stop I feel like we probably could have had a potty break and kept going for another four hours yeah um but you with your background um are do you just as a member I’m not saying as a board member
You’re going to go in and say we’re going to do this type of media and that but sitting on the outside um just as a member are there any things that you have noticed you’re like oh the USPSA could do more of this or more
Of that or less of this and more of that from the media or as far as just overall marketing the marketing outside of like the marketing right now is for people who already shoot USPSA correct really it’s not for people who are not part of the sport it’s for
People who I mean it’s sort of work that way but I’ve seen Facebook ad or Instagram ads show up in my feed I’m already a member right like that’s that’s wasted on me you know um finding ways of reaching people I’m not saying that’s not a relevant thing because I’m sure
Like they’re keying in on like people who are shooting or they’re Outdoors or you know which I also probably have those things in you know in my secret file with meta or whatever but the uh but how how to go about reaching people that are not already part of our
Sport like to me shooting USPS or shooting USA I I don’t think spending money with them is is useful um I think getting a younger cheaper content creator to do stuff that is I mean there’s been some stuff done like the stuff Josh freix company’s done
Is really cool like it’s great but it’s just sort of flash correct it’s it’s it’s just it’s like it’s cool it’s a bunch of cool b-roll video and it’s cool and it looks way better than anything else that they’ve done but it doesn’t it’s like it’s like they went
From one end of the spectrum all the way to the other some in the middle I think would be would be better and I’m not saying they shouldn’t be using that I think the old well here we are shooting USA we’re at the low cap Nationals
And and I don’t know how many people are watching that show anymore you know um like people don’t have cable TV like I don’t have cable TV anymore I haven’t seen an episode of shooting USA in years because I don’t have the Outdoor Channel anymore um Lots of people are that way
It’s and and the people I do know who are who have it it’s like my mom my mom still got cable and she’s got Outdoor Channel but she’s not watching it I mean if my dad was still alive he would watch it but like he’s not shooting USPSA you
Know I I just think it could be that money could be spent better elsewhere um I don’t have the Magic Bullet for the marketing I just know it I I it needs to be different it needs to be more current um YouTube Rumble maybe um Twitter maybe
Uh maybe I mean Twitter would be good just because it’s gonna be Freer you know you’re not going to get as restricted but at the same time like Rumble too yeah same with Rumble yeah um But continuing to just have content you know like the I I’ve heard many other people
Say the same thing like why do we need a review of a gun in in the magazine when you could have someone shooting the gun and actually on video talking about it in the context of shooting USPSA you know it would I that those sorts of things would definitely be better
Um getting out of traditional media is like the magazine and and tele Vision I don’t think either one of those two things is is really viable for our sport if we’re going to truly worry about growing but here’s here’s the other thing though too is like a lot of people
Are really wound up about you know we need we need to get SP we need to get Under Armour and Coke and Pepsi and and we’re gonna do all this and it’s like look we’re we’re a drop in the bucket in the Shooting Sports we really
Are um there’s just shy of 40,000 USPSA members and what what was the number you said that are Act like it’s like 20 19 or 20 okay there’s like five million Trap Shooters in the US right you know even if we BEC even if all of a sudden mainstream media didn’t hate
Guns they’re going to trap shooting first it’s a bigger bucket to spend their money on you know right there’s that too I would much I would prefer USPSA spend its money on making our Nationals great let the media kind of take care of itself you know like make it something
Cool that that influencers want to cover you know that um you know and is that possible or not I don’t know but that’s how it works with like actual major sports like it’s it’s pay to playay in a lot of those cases you know like the sport is getting paid to have that
Access I don’t know if that’s viable it’s probably not you know it’s not like USPSA is going to become the NFL or anything like that but um but I just care about the I really care about the sport I don’t care about making it into the Olympics I don’t it it’s not gonna
Make USPSA better um yeah it’d be cool it’d be great I’m not saying it wouldn’t be but I I don’t care about spending time money and energy in that Pursuit uh there are are bigger problems we need to fix and if all those problems are fixed then down
The road like hey let’s try attracting some mainstream sponsors but we have trouble having sponsors that we should have now so let’s let’s fix that before we worry about getting under arour Coke or Pepsi on board now you had mentioned um we had talked briefly about Nationals and that seems to be
Where a lot of the hemorrhaging occurs what are your thoughts on like an end of the year single Nationals where all divisions are up for grabs maybe like a 4day Nationals with a day where you don’t shoot so you’ve get an extra day worth of squads so you get a lot more
People at the match you fill the match one time have a nice uh say like Tuesday to Friday and then Friday you have a ceremony and then everybody can head out um I like it being at the end of the year shooting Nationals in May or June
When you live where it where you’re in the frozen tundra for half the year it’s kind of rude um we don’t get to practice outside and live fire right um you know you could well yeah you could and I can I can get frostbite too Dave you know
You sure can we’re just we’re just making sure someone from California Arizona is winning that Championship that’s what we’re doing um but uh as far as the I I I’ve talked about this before too uh Tyler Turner posted something I completely agreed with uh a few weeks
Ago and it was he he wrote something like hot take Nationals does not have to turn a profit and that is a hot take considering that it’s the biggest loser of money right now once the org is financially stable it doesn’t have to make money as
Long as the org is not losing money correct does that make sense yeah absolutely as long as you’re still in the black overall right you’re fine I agree yep so whatever it costs it costs to put on does that mean we should have F six Nationals that the oreg is paying
For and that’s covering above of what the match fee pays probably not like we’re not there but if if we can then that’s fine as far as right that’s not feasible right now though like that’s that’s not a thing right now so everybody’s pissed about USPSA is losing money losing money
Losing money they raise the match fee everybody’s pissed about raising the match fee so do you want financial responsibility or do you want to keep shooting the at the same cost it has been right like that when people got really mad about that like I get that the Nationals
Aren’t as cool as they used to be um but and I I couldn’t speak to that I don’t know what they were like I when I went to to Alabama in 2021 I was a little underwhelmed you know it wasn’t it wasn’t I kind of expected more
Of a spectacle honestly a little bit but at the same time you know and and mostly within like the the sponsors and you know like the vendor area I thought would would have had more in it you know it was pretty much Beretta GX and one other that I remember uh Andy
I’m going to interrupt you for just a moment have you ever been to Camp Perry for the national matches no that is I I’ve been there a few times a as a kid too um huge huge Gathering of all the rifle shooters from across the country coming
To shoot service rifle you know uh high power matches and you had every vendor you could imagine they had I would as a teenager I would go to some of the vendors and pay a couple bucks to shoot a match grade pellet gun you know in in a little shooting
Booth type of a thing but this is where I’m going with the single Nationals it becomes an event and with a day off yeah maybe you attract the vendors maybe they do come and like oh because now you’re in Talladega you’re there for four days one day you’re not shooting where are
You going on your day off you’re getting actually that’s all there is to do there that’s all you’re doing you’re going if you can find a place that’s open you’re going to that sports bar with the good pizza and you’re getting wasted that’s what’s happening but I’ve been to three Nationals I have
Never walked into a vendor Booth not one single time no I I did walk up to the Beretta Booth uh when I was down there and that was about it Um the the the complication comes from USPSA is a weird sport like I mean I I I’ve only ever shot like small high power matches so how those work I mean they they’ll have like 24 lines right you know positions on the firing line so and it like to actually shoot the course
Of fire does not take long like you’re done in about how long typically 20 minutes or less okay yeah well and you talking about you talking about the whole match or just single string of fire yeah no like you like your your run in the in the four
Things I’m not sure I’m following you I’m sorry well like okay I I the matches I match is all day okay but like you’re not shooting all day like you personally so so here shooting take place I’ve got I’ve got 22 minutes with a three minut
So 25 minutes at the 200 yard line followed by a five minute one so 30 minutes at the 200 yard line and then I’m only at the 300 00 yard line for five minutes as a shooter and then at the 600 now I’m I’m there for 25 minutes so was that 50 60
Minutes of shooting okay does that H happen at the same time or is there a schedule and you’re kind of bouncing around uh it’s a schedule and you move from yard line to yard line and then you switch and go and pull targets and stuff
So that’s why it’s an all day thing okay so does that Sport have the ability to run more people through in a day than say a USPSA match on 20 Bays um well I it depends it’s like any other range it depends on how many Target points they have like if you go
To Perry there’s literally 150 Target points and you could have six people on each one so it’s what 900 people shooting okay so yeah they can handle a lot more right but you get close closer to that number with USPSA if you have a four- day match
And you only shoot three because now you have a whole extra day of people you know quick math yeah let’s like but it’s like 240 people at at a given time can be on the range at like a 20 stage or 20 Bay Nationals if it’s if it’s 12 um you
Right there’s that there’s that limitation and then on top of that it’s for roughly 40 minutes per Bay that you’re there give or take and the like the math of match directing is like it’s it’s always it’s like my number one concern for how the match goes and it’s really complicated when
You have just one match because and this was something Tyler had said uh in my exchange with him is he didn’t want Nationals to lose the Everyman aspect you bring it down to one Nationals now you’ve got so four days were the shooters like how many people would could that handle you know
Are we capping it at 500 can it be uh and like I’m I’m thinking out loud here so I have no idea what any of these numbers would be it would it would be tough to get it to a number and think about the popularity of carry Optics you
Know most people are wanting to go shoot that and if they can’t you know does that mean you limit the number of slots in a division how do you do that does everybody just sign up because then you still got like eight revolver Shooters what’s the point you know um right you
Know or if you get a bunch of revolver shooters that are taking you know they they get in before some of the Heat and carry Optics are open you know like and these are I these are not reasons to not do it I’m just talking about the concerns of the one match you
Know um I’m I’m I’m okay with the concept of one match but how do we go about it you know and still maintain the Everyman aspect of us PSA it’s one of the great things about the sport um there’s a lot of people who think National should only
Be for the elite um you know like you qualify to make it and that would be cool I don’t think that’s a bad thing um but the only way that would work in any reasonable Financial way and I think it would be really cool to do don’t get me
Wrong is to you’d only have like a handful of squads and a handful of squads of Staff you know you wouldn’t have staff for every stage of the match you would have staff for as many squads as you have for that competition and then they manage the
Stages as that as those squads are going through that’s the only way I can think of that would make that work to actually make it exclusive you know whether it’s you know how how many you have for carry Optics how many of the you know if you’re going to qualify for Nationals
How many should that be 30 40 50 you know I think 50 is a really cool number you know the 50 best figure out some way of qualifying those 50 people okay there’s that one we have uh like we’re not going to get enough revolver Shooters to do revolver
This way no not you know but like for the carry Optics limited Optics you know maybe you reduce the number of people in a division given on by participation I don’t know but that top whatever there you have that that’s who gets to be there and and then there’s those you
Know but if there’s 50 people that you’re already looking at like five squads pretty much just shy of six squad or yeah five squads now it’s starting to make less Financial sense because you’re trying to get people to you’re trying to make this work financially they’re paying match fees and trying to limit
The number of staff to run it that’s where it gets tricky and right having staff work the match I had an exchange with a guy online a few weeks ago and he was from uh uh out east somewhere I can’t remember where I think I want to say Upstate New York
And like at he’d worked at area 7even and they didn’t do they didn’t pay money to the staff like they got a dinner they got a shirt they shot the match for free and um that was pretty much it like they didn’t get anything for it I worked area
Three last year and I got I think it was two or 300 bucks for working it um to help offset hotel and and and meals and and gas and whatnot and it’s I had that was the first time I worked Area 3 but that was the first time Scott ran it and
They I know they take care of anybody that needs taken care of in Iowa but like at the Iowa section they have so many locals to help them they don’t have to Shell out a lot and it and it seemed like the guy I was talking to from New
York was sort of in that same situation like they didn’t need to cover travel costs because everybody was from there you know they didn’t have to deal with that um at my match the great plane section we I hand everybody a $100 bill for work on the match day that’s that’s
What we do um and nobody’s really working the match to get paid this is just like the thank you for putting in the time and and coming up and working the match and and whatnot and um to me it’s it like I don’t work matches for the money I work matches
Because it reduces my cost and um I like doing it you know but to do it for Nationals like it’s hard to get a bunch of locals there to cover everything and to make it cheaper you know like I don’t think everybody should get paid the same
For working Nationals but if if you have to travel to get there then you should get reimbursed for that you know and that’s where it gets really expensive it’s it’s it’s not an easy problem to solve right well and I know the Virginia state match because I’ve worked out a
Couple of times as the medic there um but I’m local I’m literally 20 minutes I I don’t have a medic should I should get a medic you apparently yeah I mean there’s a hospital right across the highway from us but I never somebody got to drag him there
Um I didn’t obviously I didn’t get anything for doing that but I mean I know that like what they do is they take their staff and let’s say there’s 30 people coming to work the match that are from out of town then they get 15 rooms
Put two people in each room and and they don’t pay the but they pay they provide the hotel for the staff correct if you want your own room then you pay for half of the room they pay for half now you have quote unquote a private room type
Like are they actually providing it or is it like reimbursement oh no they like um the ones that hotel rooms out correct okay and then they assigned you’re like you’re in room 215 with Joe so yeah okay right so you know they they can re it
Can be but typically they like hey me and me and my buddy are coming to work so we’d like to be in the room together okay cool done deal sure that type of thing and then they don’t they don’t give out prizes to the the shooters
Everything they get for when they do the staff dinner it gets passed out to all the staff so you might win a Mark 7 reloading oh setup or you know uh whatever but that’s how they they give all that stuff to the staff and take care of their rooms and you get Southern
Barbecue food while you’re working the match and honestly like the the thing I like the least about running a major match is the prize table I loath it I don’t I don’t care about prize tables personally I don’t go to matches for them it’s just sort of this part of the sport
That the one thing I do like about it is it gets people to stick around to help tear down you know that’s the thing I like the best about it because the first time I had any prizes we didn’t have a lot we just had
A little bit and and I bought some this is 2022 I think it was primers I mean primers are still expensive but I bought are you asking a question at the end there 2022 I couldn’t I couldn’t remember it was the first or the second year we had it but
We I bought some primers and this is when they were like you were shelling out like a hundred bucks for a brick and okay and those went quickly and people stuck around for those and I think uh we had some hundreds of HD Gold certificates we
Didn’t have a ton but we had some stuff and okay and so it the thing I noticed was well when we had no prize table almost no one stuck around for awards and everybody bailed right away and I ended up mailing out 16 plaques the next
Year I mailed out three and they were all people from Arizona that shot staff day so um it was so nil like like there’s he didn’t shoot he didn’t come up actually a guy went to high school with and then a bunch of his friends one of which was
Actually from this small town of Canton she grew up there and came and shot the match and uh with with that crew from the Phoenix area last year it was pretty cool there was a guy that also graduated high school in that same town and he
Lived in Florida and he was like he’s looking at the the calendar from matches and he’s like Canton South Dakota what like I graduated high school there is this real there’s a level two USPSA match there and so then he came back home his folks still live there and yeah
That was pretty cool too all so I was looking go ahead I’m sorry no I I have this bad habit of filling dead air as a farmer radio jock oh that’s okay I am forwarding something to you oh wait shoot I created a whole spread sheet on a onewe
Nationals like how many shooters you would have what your I just sent it to you you don’t have to look at it now but I actually laid it all out like what the expenses would be how many shooters you would have all of that type of thing and
I I could be way could be way off but it lays it out like how it would work or how it could work it might need to be tweaked I’m sure but because I am not a match director however I was looking for that while you were talking and I kept I
Thought I had it in my Google Docs and I kept scrolling scrolling scrolling made it to the end and I never saw it so it’s something you can look at later um and that’s you know I like I said I’m not I’m I’m not opposed to really any idea it’s just a
Matter of execution and how how about doing it like oh I got it now so like 600 page Shooters 500 bucks a piece right and there yeah but there’s uh what is it like um I also deducted how many unpaid Shooters like um sponsored Shooters stuff I tried to guesstimate
That stuff so you do have a pretty big number of 720 Shooters yeah sure okay but I have I have more I’m also using I’m I’m finding a range that has more Bays I think it might be 24 I don’t remember hey I know of a
Range that’ll be open in a year that’ll have that I think yeah I’ve heard that there’s a nice one going up not far from you right no out in Rapid City I was just there last weekend I drove out uh so we were staying the my daughter’s
Gymnastics meet was at this event center that is attached to a bunch of hotels that are also attached to a big indoor water park and S miles north on the on the street that that is on is where the new uh uh South Dakota Shooting Complex
Is in the process of being built there’s a bunch of Bays already plowed uh they’re doing all kinds of dirt work out there right now like it’s kind of a mess right now like imagine a bunch of machines yeah it’s a bunch of dirt moving machines and but there’s a bunch
Of The Bays that are built and they’re huge like there’s two halves of it like there’s a public side and then there’s like the competition training side and so like the the front side there’s going to be God I can’t remember how many there’s going to be uh like counting all
Of the like every single one of the ranges there will be built like a bay but some of them are like 300 yards long okay and some of them are 2550 yards deep or whatever and pretty much everything in between U most of the like Tactical
Competition bays in the on the back side are going to be on the shorter side and the stuff in the front would be longer but um I’m not directly involved with that project but I have a friend out there who is who’s a match director at his local Club there he’s been heavily
Involved and um it’s like like the thing that’s the coolest about it is from what he’s been told so far and I believe it because it’s pretty much how they run their the state runs their ranges they don’t want money like a big event could happen and they’re not concerned with getting
Paid it’s part of it is like it’s an attraction to the state it’s the okay you know it’s gonna bring a bunch of money into Rapid City if there’s this giant match there and you’re seven miles from a buttload of hotels uh that’s literally 10 minutes
Away it’s yeah it’s it was such a short little drive straight north um it’s close to Deadwood and sturis although you would not want this match going on during Sturgis because every Hotel would be $500 that would be a bad thing but and there’s that drinking thing
Again yeah uh but the uh but it would be in such a cool location now the the big concern though is Staff like the club out there has like 30 people at a match at their monthly matches and like they don’t have the staff to staff a Nationals obviously but most clubs right
Are not local clubs Staffing like Talladega isn’t the local Club Staffing that match either nope everybody’s coming in yeah and I mean Rapid City doesn’t have an international airport but it has a regional airport that flies in and out of Denver flies in and out of Minneapolis I don’t know where all that
You can get direct flights from there too but a number of places I’m guessing similar to sou Falls um we’ve got a number of places like you can get in there by playing and it won’t be stupid expensive yeah itd be more than flying to Atlanta to go to Talladega but then
You’re not getting a rental car to drive two hours or two and a half hours or whatever it is to get there like you’re literally 15 minutes from the range so um fighting a rental car might be tough if there’s that many people coming in
That weekend but um but it’s uh I mean it’s it’s a tourist destination that’s the thing that’s so cool like of all the places where there have been National the only one I’ve ever wanted to go to when there wasn’t a match going on was St George every other place there’s ever
Been a match going on I don’t care to go to I’m not bringing my family there um you can go shoot in the morning at this place and then bring your family and then go to Mount Rushmore that would be in the afternoon it would be 35 minutes away
You know uh Deadwood like the TV show Deadwood it’s you know like that town is out in the Black Hills it’s probably about 45 minutes from there um it’s so there’s actually things to do there’s stuff to do I mean the Black Hills themselves are just really cool to go
Tool around in and uh the uh pahas sappa the Lakota name for the Black Hills uh Crazy Horse you can go visit Crazy Horse the mountain that’s in the process of being carved um there’s caves there’s gambling there’s a butload of cool restaurants like the downtown in Rapid
Has gotten really revamped now it’s not I’m not trying to say Rapid City South Beach I’m not trying to say that but we haven’t been doing matches in Miami either so um at least to my knowledge it it would be really cool and obviously I’m I’m biased because it’s it’s my
State it’s my backyard but it’ still be a five hour drive for me so wow I mean it’s I mean it’s 80 miles an hour all the way across the state but it’s still like got to drive all the way across the state to get there but um but yeah it’s
It’s going to be an amazing facility when they get it done it’s um uh and like they’re in the I think they’re hoping to be open the front end open by like July of this year so it’s in the process but it’s it’s going to be cool they’ve got
Like a 1,200 yard rifle range that’s going to be there uh some Sporting Clay I whole bunch of stuff it’s going to be really cool I just wish it was I wish it was a little closer to me that’s the only thing I’m sad about but
It would be an amazing place to have uh a Nationals at and I keep telling like I’ve been the match director of the great plane section for the last three years now doing the fourth year the guy Bruce the guy who’s the match director
At the club out there I I was like dude you need to come work my match this year because in another year or two you’re going to be hosting a major whether it’s the section like because I’ve always I’ve never w wanted to keep the section at my club forever
And ever like it’s not my match it’s the section’s match it should move around to the clubs that want it and if he’s got a like the place they shoot at now is not capable of having it but this place definitely would be and like it should be out there I would love
To go shoot a match out there and work the match out there you know um it’ll I can’t wait till it’s done it’s G to be amazing sounds pretty wild sounds like the Cameo of South Dakota pretty much yeah um um sounds like Cameo has more a
Few more bells and whistles that this one would not like all the TVs and what not in the Bays like they’re not this is a this is a purely government project with some with some donations they ended up raising a lot of money that’s one thing about the like the game Fish and
Parks department in South Dakota is who’s building this it’s on their it’s and that they own and uh like they’re like and I think this is true of Most states they are 100% self-sustaining like they don’t get any funding from tax dollars like it’s all licenses and park
Fees and camping fees and and whatnot and the four million pheasants being shot every year and four million pheasants yeah there’s a lot of non-resident licenses getting sold during pheasant season and and that’s what they make their money on and which is why it’s kind of wild when they have
And they have a number of public ranges around the state that are similar to this just not as big I mean not even close they’re much smaller like they’ll have a few you know know like a 300 yard rifle range and then 100 and a 50 and couple of pistol ranges you know
Something like that um but they’re they’re open to the public all the time you know it’s there’s no uh there’s no fences up there’s no Gates there’s no nothing and yes stuff does get stuff does get broken and abused from time to time course um because people are stupid at gun ranges
It’s just kind of how it is but um yeah it’s uh I’m I’m very excited about and whether or not it’s going to be totally free like if they’re closing down a a public shooting facility for a whole like week like okay maybe there should be something given back but at the same
Time if the state’s okay with like hey we just want you to bring a bunch of people here and spend a bunch of money in the state because that will come back to us too so right yeah all the all the taxes from all the stuff you spend will
Go right back into the C come back in well you you guys also have a very gun-friendly Governor though too so and just gun-friendly state in general uh it has advanced under christye Nome for sure um she well she’s been very vocal about it like I I live on the east coast
And I know of her and and what she supports well when you’re when you’re trying to get the VP nomination uh that tends to happen helps you know she got she got pretty famous during Co and then she started injecting things in her face and kind of looks a
Little strange now but um but no I she’s she’s very polarizing even here uh anybody who’s even remotely left of center absolutely hates her um which is amusing to me because it’s like she could she could save a baby from a fire and she’s like yeah but she was a [ __ ]
About it like that’s the attitude some people have but at the same time like we didn’t close anything during Co like nothing nothing closed here we didn’t we didn’t deal with any of that um uh and and when she’s out there talking in every other state that she’s
In when she’s not here which is frequently uh she’s kind of touting that and um yeah there’s been a number of gun things though that have been good uh one that I think it was it came from her was getting rid of all the fees for pistol
Permits um we don’t pay for pistol permits or background checks used to be with like the permit class I teach um to get that enhanced permit you would have to take a class which that’s not free because I they didn’t set aside money for me to teach the class but right but
They you don’t pay money at the Sheriff’s Office to apply for your permit and you don’t have to pay for the fingerprint background check anymore that they would send off to the capital to have processed so um like got rid of all that stuff our gun laws are already
Pretty friendly um some of the carry laws I would like mild changes too because there’s uh like we’re like a lot of states where you can’t carry in on school property or in cour houses or bars right but like we can do bars the we can do bars if we open
Carrie oh I can conceal Carrie in a bar I just can’t drink Okay and like you can you can carry in a restaurant and you can even be intoxicated as long as you don’t have a round in the chamber in South [Laughter] Dakota I guess it’s harder to have a
Negligent discharge if there isn’t one in the chamber you know they literally they literally Chang the the definition of a loaded firearm two years ago to uh any round a loaded firearm is defined as any firearm with a a cartridge sheller or projectile in the chamber including
Any chamber in the cinder of a revolver so okay before that if you had a loaded magazine in the gun and the gun then that was considered loaded but I mean if I was carrying and decide to start drinking like all I had to do was
Pop the mag out clear the chamber stick the mag in my pocket unloaded firearm I’m not breaking the law but the uh what was the other thing though I was going to mention the like I went to Kansas and Missouri and was looking up their laws
Like if you get busted in those places though that you’re not supposed to have a gun you’re guilty of trespassing if you don’t leave when you’re told to and in sougia in South Dakota if you’re caught on school property like boom done misdemeanor like you’ve already broken
The law like there’s no chance to leave like you’ve already broken the law that’s the that’s the one thing that’s I would like to see changed where it’s just like okay I go but the thing is that’s stupid is the my pocket KN like the most broken law in the state is
Carrying a pocketknife on school property like everybody in their dog in South Dakota has a pocket knife and it’s the same as a pistol it would be the same as me walking around with a machine gun if I have a pocket knife in my pocket like according to the law so
It doesn’t make a lot of sense but yeah no it’s a very good friendly State I do have to clarify in in Virginia I can I cannot carry a gun into a school period um I can leave it locked up in my vehicle in the parking lot oh yeah you
Couldn’t do that in South Dakota yeah that’s where they draw the line like if I get out of the car vehicle with it and enter Then I I am wrong now the the trespassing thing is with a private establishment if they say you can’t be in here with a gun and
Then they tell you to leave and you don’t then you can be arrested for trespassing y but but we’ve got a bunch of crazy Democrats because of where we are so yeah they’re always you’re in Virginia oh yeah yeah it went a little downhill with that new governor a couple
Years ago right uh what yunan no he’s been good he’s a he’s a red de uh red Governor but in this past election or was it the legislature that went wonky yep oh okay and it just happened so like they’ve been flooding the governor’s office with new gun bills because
They’re so he’s going to either have to veto them or who knows but that’s a whole other podcast episode yeah Sons of Guns well Andy that’s everything that I had I don’t know that there’s anything left uh was there anything that you meant to touch on and didn’t or want To no I I can’t can’t think of anything I’m curious to check my phone though to see if I’m the area director or not check it we’ll find out yeah there’s nothing could be breaking news nothing new nothing new no looks like nothing new so I wonder if they’re still
Going it’s 10:42 p.m. Eastern Standard Time at the moment yeah 9:42 in the central time zone there you go yeah well I appreciate you coming on it’s been a great conversation I I had a good time thanks for having me on Dave until next time don’t be a little bot Yeah
7 Comments
Still own M1A Scout did a few of FHN 3Guns with it Heavy Metal with Red Dot on it.
Started IPSC in 76 USPSA 86 IDPA 2021 All Three Gun Matches over 48 Years all factory ammo never reloaded a round in my life
I have been a annual member since October 86 and have paid more than what a life time membership even before the price increase. I have done either 3 or 5 years.
Ben Berry is our new Area Director and we are loving him.
Worked 2022 and 2023 Carry Optic Nationals and 2022 Multi Gun Nationals best example I can give as to Carry Optics 2023 each staffed position is budgeted at $1,200 per person. 2023 there were 112 inclusive of staff from headquarters personnel 86 of the staff shot the match for free this is not inclusive of the $1,200 per person. 50 Sponsored slots are free to the sponsors representing the stages and the President has discretion to award up to 10 slots at no cost to the shooter. 505 Shooters shot the match but only 369 only paid total entry fee. Staff accounted for $127,500.00 cost just for the Carry Optic Nationals 2023 from what I understand the match lost $130,000.00 and that is one Nationals. Staffing is an issue as it does take folks to run the match don't know how to fix this.
Your 750 Shooters is that inclusive or Staff and Sponsored Shooters? For Staff shooting 24-30 Stages you would need to allow 4-7 Days for set up and then 3 days for staff shoot then 4 days for the competitors to shoot.
Another great interview! Looking forward to the next one. I will say that I can politics on TV isn’t a reflection of reality. I think we only hear from the extremes on both sides and I think most people are actually a lot closer than is shown in the news