Daniel Berger stops by to talk with Soly about his back injury and the road back to reclaiming his physical health and his place in the competitive golf landscape. We also cover his experiences in team competitions, playing money games with tour pros as a high school-aged kid, his mental approach to golf and his injury rehab, the changes on tour while he was away and a ton more.
Ladies and gentlemen welcome back to the no Lup podcast Sol here got an interview coming shortly with our guy Daniel berer maybe the Forgotten man in men’s professional golf uh DB straight viin is back playing competitively he’s been away for a long time in case you don’t
Know about his injury history what he’s been up to we talk about all of that uh and it’s it’s been kind of fun to just reflect on on what he was doing but prior to being injured I don’t know if I could have named off the top of my head
That Daniel Burger was the top 20 player in the world before he got hurt and uh I do feel like people have forgotten about him and I think he’s uh he’s ready to come back and play a little bit of golf this episode is brought to you by our
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Nlu get ready for the golf season with roback without any further delay here is Daniel Burger all right you’ve had a lot of time off but from what I’m hearing I’m afraid to ask this next question because I don’t think it’s the answer I’m going to be looking for but how much
Time has have you spent on the boat in the last year and a half yeah it’s a funny uh I felt like a lot of people asked me that question I have not done any boating for a while cuz it wasn’t uh it just wasn’t that comfortable to go on
The boat for for the body you know bouncing up and down so was one of the few things that really gave me joy in life that was taken away from me but now I’m good so now I’m now I’m able to do what I love to do I’m glad I didn’t know
This the whole time you were hurt cuz I I just kept picturing I’m like dude he’s probably doing fine he’s probably out on the boat like every day he’s probably not hating this at all but man take Golf and boating away from you what were you
Doing with all your time off h a lot of rehab a lot of sitting around I thought to myself like what am I going to do I can’t play golf what am I going to do I was like maybe I’ll like learn a second language so I like downloaded the babble
App and like spent like five minutes on it I was like this is not for me either so like I did not do a lot I’m not gonna lie well so what did you do though I mean you play video games I mean I I because I listened to an a podcast you
Did where you had you were coming off a recent injury but this was several years ago and you were talking about how like you thought you didn’t love golf that much and then that that time off really showed you that you do love it this was
A much more extended time off from from any other previous injury you’ve had yeah what I did was I had this like anti-gravity chair that I put in front of my TV and I just watched Cooking Channel shows and literally I mean it was like it was brutal like you know how
It’s hard to pass like 15 hours a day doing nothing so um I wouldn’t wouldn’t wish it upon anybody so what for the the the boring part getting this out of the way for those that aren’t familiar you uh you know you recently returned to the
Pg tour you your last start prior to that was the US Open in 2022 you took a lot of time off with a back injury can you kind of detail you know kind of what happened with your back and uh what what you’ve been kind of going through over
The last year and a half to get ready to get back out on the golf course yeah basically what happened is I played the Ryder Cup and uh I took three months off after the Ryder Cup because I was just kind of tired of golf I was like
Exhausted from the grind and I had a long year and a half before that and basically probably did the least amount in the gym the least amount of golf the least amount of walking kind of just like totally stopped golfing for like three months and then I came back I
Think it was uh Hawaii just my body felt weird it didn’t feel like normal like I had some tightness in my back but I was fine like it didn’t hurt me or anything and then I got to San Diego a couple weeks later and I remember like hitting
Balls on the Range and I was like oh my God like I can’t even like swing the club just kind of the athlete in me was like you know we’re just going to keep playing we’re not going to stop I finished that tournament and like I couldn’t bend over I couldn’t sit down
And I was never had any back pain ever in my life that was the point where I was like oh [ __ ] this is a problem you know like this is not normal this is not your everyday tightness this is like something more serious than that and I
Took a couple weeks off it got a little bit better but it wasn’t really making that full recovery that I was hoping for and I was going to tournaments doing like a quarter of the practice and a quarter of the preparation that I was used to doing and I was still competing
Like I you know I almost won the Honda and you know I had some good finishes here and there but I was like this is just not this is not healthy from like an everyday lifestyle like I can’t do the things that I want to do and I and I
Don’t feel good when I get up in the morning so that was kind of the point around that US Open time where I was just like this is this is not going to work for me so took some time away way kind of struggled to get a diagnosis at
First I think uh now that I’ve gone through it you know the back is a complicated thing it’s not sometimes it can be cut and dry but sometimes it’s not necessarily and so kind of bounced around some different opinions early on and then finally went to see this guy uh
Dr McGill in Canada um and he really gave me a solid diagnosis really gave me a plan kind of uh changed the team that I had around me got a new um strength and condition coach that uh really put me on a specific program to really get
Back to golf and we kind of just micro progressed out of it and it started with just like three basic exercises every single day and from there we built on it and eventually got back to you know fully lifting again and doing you know the stuff that I used to do beforehand
And you know there’s just some stuff I stay away from there’s some things I don’t do but overall I’m you know 100% now I feel perfect that’s good what uh because in reading about it doesn’t seem like you know somebody’s out for a while they go get a procedure and it’s like
Hey I’m going to be out 6 to8 months I’m going to be out this period I’m going to be out this where it seemed like there was a ton of trial and error in there right you’re summarizing that kind of briefly as to what what that’s been like
But you didn’t know that when you were going to be coming back or because you opted not for any surgery uh surgery routes like how did you what was that whole process like of this is what it’s I mean this is what I appreciate about what you guys do is baseball teams like
They have trainers that you know are looking out for uh for you but like as a as a golfer you’re in charge of your own decisions on this front so I found that kind of decision you had to make pretty fascinating yeah I think I mean you hear
A lot of the stories of guys coming back too early and uh and getting hurt again or or not feeling like they were able to do what they want to do to prepare and that was kind of my goal I was like listen I’m not going to come back and
Play golf till I can go out there and prepare to 100% and do everything that I need to do and if I need to hit 300 balls I can hit 300 balls and if I I need to walk 36 holes in a day I can
Walk 36 holes in a day and that just was a peri of time that it took to get to that stage where I felt like I was good to go and yeah I mean like you look at some of these other guys you know I don’t know exactly what they’ve gone
Through but they have surgery or multiple surgeries and then like four months later they’re playing golf and I’m just like wow that’s that’s impressive because I didn’t I didn’t even have surgery and it took me you know 15 months to get back to where I
Felt you know good enough to play but I guess everything is kind of uh case to Case and yeah it’s just uh you have have to listen to your body and you have to you know trust it I think pain is there for a reason it’s telling you something
And I think the uh the athlete in me just says power through go ahead don’t you know you know it’s gonna be okay but then you get to a point where you kind of cross a threshold of okay and you’re like oh [ __ ] something’s wrong and so
That was that was tough for me because uh like I said unless I’m unless I’m to the point where like I physically cannot move I just find a way to compensate and just get the ball in the hole and that’s what I did for a little while and so got
To the point where I was just like this is not doable anymore and that’s where I decided to really step away and get back to feeling 100 per. everyone I mean it feels like everyone at some point deals with back issues right especially golfers but I mean it just affects your
Everyday life that’s the part that you know is is just puts I got back stuff going on and I’ve had it for several months now and it just puts me in a bad mood like you can’t move around the same and it just like it’s just debilitating
Man and it just it’s it’s like seems like the hardest thing to cure and uh I I’m not comparing what I’m what I’m going through with what you’ve gone through but man it just just kind of deflates you yeah I no 100% I think back pain like after going through this I’ve
Got a lot of perspective on it I think like everyone has some point in their life where their back bothers them and uh it’s like it’s more common than the than the flu you know like everyone has some period where they’re dealing with something but uh yeah it’s really just
About like managing it right and like doing the things uh that you need to do in order to be able to play and like the level of professionalism I would say that I bring to my game now is is pfold to what it was before because you know
You don’t want to go down that route that you experienced before and so you have to really stay on top of things but I’m not a guy that’s uh that’s ever going to complain about having to do more you know like I’m so lucky to be
Able to play this game for a living and if you told me I had to do 10 times what I’m doing right now I would still do it so it’s it’s honestly easy to to just go ahead and and you know be the best version of yourself as cliche as that
Sounds what’s a what’s a morning tea time look like for you now compared to uh compared to to pre-b back injury well when I was like 22 years old I could get up an hour before my tea time and swing at 120 miles an hour and go right to the
Tea but now it’s it’s a little more like a three-hour wakeup call before before tea time so I’m if I’m off at 8 I’m I’m at five to warm up but I used to joke about it because you know like I play a lot of golf with Patrick kentley around
You know around town and you know he had some back stuff early on in his career and I’d ask him I say what time you want to play you want to play at 8 8:30 and he would always like shake his head like absolutely not I never really understood
Why but now I get it it’s because he’s doing the same stuff that I’m doing now so you just learn what you need to do and and you just do it it’s kind of like you know you brush your teeth you eat breakfast you do your exercises you know
It’s kind of just the programming within you it just changes to where it’s just a part of your routine well back to the important stuff now on the Boating front because I don’t think we’ve covered all that right you again old interviews I listen to you like that’s a passion of
Yours was being out on the water like that’s your thing so you weren’t able to do a lot of that it wasn’t uncomfortable are you now able to do that and is that still something that uh you enjoy passing your time with and we we need an
Update on the on the whole straight vibe in Fleet I I got to know what you’ve got over there and uh I’ve heard rumors but I I I need I need the full story yeah listen boating is definitely like the number one hobby outside of golf
It’s pretty much like the if I had to to choose one thing to do if I wasn’t playing golf it’d be on the boat whether it’s going to the Bahamas or even just going for a cruise you know on the inter Coastal but um it didn’t feel right to
Do it and uh it was bothering me but now I feel 100% like I have no problem I could go run 200 miles across the Atlantic Ocean and feel completely fine and go fish for 12 hours and have no issues but I just think think that like
Where I’m at after taking a year and a half off it’s probably not responsible to take two weeks off to go fishing like I need to need to buckle down and uh and start uh racking up some FedEx Cup points and you know get that world ranking from whatever the heck it is
Right now to pre pre all of this [ __ ] well you there’s the golf world went through some pretty drastic changes uh dur during your time off and and you know you were you were having so much success as you as you said kind of before all this happened likees is there
Any feeling of like getting bypassed while you’re sitting out right I mean there’s new names that are popping up now on leaderboards there’s uh you know uh the events have all changed now on the PGA tour what’s kind of what’s like getting what’s it like getting back into
The competitive flow uh with that much time off I think the the most interesting thing is like showing up to the to the tournament and not knowing like 75% of the people that are out there just because I’m not a guy that like casually watches golf so I haven’t
Really paid attention to like who come up from the corn fery and who’s you know recently won and um yeah I just like I look down the range and I’m like man like where did all the guys that I played with go but I’m sure that’s kind
Of how you know some of the older guys not that I’m old but some of the guys that when I first came out on tour felt you know when I was coming out there but uh yeah I mean I don’t think uh it’s a bad thing I think it’s always nice to
Have a little bit of a change over and uh but the whole you know Saga of the live you know BS and not BS but the whole golf world right now I’m kind of glad that I didn’t have to uh experience all of that stuff and and deal with it
Because it’s just like it’s like a drain on yourself if you really like think about all the stuff that’s going on and it’s just I try to focus on what I can control and like none of that stuff is in my control which kind of sucks but
Yeah it’s been it’s been a crazy like two years with all that going on well it’s you know it can be a helpful thing too and and you know you’ve got enough on your plate as it is have you are have you ventured into like all the stuff
That’s going on with SSG and equity and all this stuff and Signature Events and all the changes that have happened are you are you just like do just tell me when and where my tea time is and I’m gon to go play how involved how involved
Are you and how involved do you want to be in all that well I’d like to be more involved but uh you know before this all happened you know I was the top 20 player in the world and I was in every major championship and all the I would
Be in all the elevated events and you know obviously that’s all changed you know nothing was protected so know when I came back I basically came back with full PJ tour status but not qualified for any of those events and so you know like the last time I played Pebble Beach
I won the golf tournament and I never got a chance to defend it because you know I got hurt the next year and then it became an elevated event and and you needed to I wasn’t into it so um and I didn’t get a sponsor’s invite which it’s
Not the end of the world but it would have been nice to you know be able to uh to defend the tournament that I won the last time I played it but yeah the whole thing is it’s like exhausting to think about like I it’s I don’t even know what
To say like I sat there and I listened to uh you know like in one of those player meetings most recently at at the TPC Scottdale event and I was like this is just like so much going on in the golf worldle I was like I don’t even
It’s like mentally exhausting to think about I don’t really know how else to put it but I feel bad for whoever has to like deal with that on the dayto day I’m really respect the guys that are on the player board because they’re trying to balance you know our best interest while
Playing you know golf for themselves and their family so it’s a it’s a big undertaking that’s for sure what is what was it like being back in competition what you know did the the fs were they familiar did it feel totally different when we can talk a little bit about kind
Of some of the changes you made to your to your golf swing and to your kind of team as well uh you know you mentioned that earlier but getting back into the swing of things you I believe you’ve only played about 10 rounds in the previous six months before you teed it
Up at the AMX but you You’ you’ve had some success when you do Tee It Up what’s it what’s it like getting back into competition yeah it was kind of just like it didn’t feel that crazy or that different you know it was more excitement like you know I remember the
First day that the first round of the AMX I woke up at like 4:30 in the morning and I was just like ready to run through a brick wall I was so pumped but uh yeah I mean like I love those those kind of like uh I wouldn’t call them
Nervous Jitters but like excitement ready to go feeling like excited about what you’re have in store for you um it was nice to get off to what I would call a decent start after 18 months off and make the cut and play four rounds and then two weeks after that and uh at
Waste Management which is obviously you know a big event I haven’t played in front of a ton of people in a while and there was a couple hundred thousand people there so it’s just I feel like getting my feet under me and and getting in that atmosphere and you know making
Some birdies and feeling the crowd that was kind of a nice thing and now I feel already like I’m back into you know like I’ve played golf for the last year so it really only felt like it only took me a couple events to really get back under
My feet and feel like I was ready to go if I have it right you’re working with Mark Blackburn now and and you’ve made some changes to your golf swing I guess tell me is it to to help suit your back and kind of the changes you know or the
The injury that you’ve gone through is this a more sustainable swing I guess for your back and kind of take us through that process yeah you know I think I looked at every as I mean I had a lot of time off that was the one thing
I did as I kind of looked at every aspect of my game and and what I could improve on and areas that I thought I needed to uh get better at and you know the golf swing was definitely a factor in what was going on with my back with
My back I think I have a little bit of a unique move but um we looked at some of the 3D data um sent it out to a couple different people and uh we found some pretty simple things in my swing that were you know a contributing factor to
What I was dealing with and so um kind of went down the list of a couple people that I thought you know could be helpful and and landed on uh landed on Blackburn um and went to go see him in Birmingham and really the first thing that we kind
Of dove into is how to how to swing the club and be painf free you know because that’s that’s the goal right you can’t play golf if you’re hurting and so um we uh we found a little thing to work on and that’s kind of been what I’ve been
Uh dealing with in the last couple months and you know I never really have made a swing change in like 15 years of playing golf it’s your your swing is always evolving but this was like a really targeted change so it was unique to go through that experience but it
Really doesn’t feel you know different in a sense of where like I get over a shot and I’m like whoa what is this feeling or where’s the ball going to go it’s I feel like I’m athletic and I can just make make it happen with a simple
Thought and that’s that’s what I did this is a good time to update you on the no layup email newsletter if you aren’t a subscriber you should be you can sign up at newsletter. nolayingup .c we send out the email newsletter twice a month uh this Friday’s Edition you’ll find an
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Again you can subscribe for free newsletter. laying up.com get involved that’s from the merch are back to Daniel Burger this is probably a dumb question but do you ever I don’t know how el else to ask this but do you ever like sit and think about how many people play golf
Like around the world and do you ever like you mentioned this ear you were a top 20 player in the world do you ever think about like man there aren’t 20 guys in the world better than me at this sport like do you ever sit and think
About that in terms of what you’ve accomplished in golf yeah I think I always thought I was a little bit of an underachiever or excuse me I always thought that like when I looked at like my career as a whole because I had like
I said I had a lot of time to sit around and you know you you think about a lot of things in your time off but I would never give myself that much credit like you know I’ve won you know some I’ve won some golf tournaments and
I’ve played in the ryer cup and I played in a President’s Cup and I’ve you know contended in major championships and it never really like felt successful in a way and uh and I think when I had the time off I kind of sat around and I was
Like you know what I’m pretty pretty [ __ ] good at the game of golf and uh it gave me some some good confidence that like you know accomplished a lot and that you know like if golf were to end today I would still be thankful for
The time that I had but um you know I don’t have a lot of quit in me so even if this thing if this process took three years to get back you know I still I’d be going through the only thought in my mind every single day that I woke up is
How do I get one step closer to being back at a golf tournament and I think with that mindset it’s you’re not going to fail because there is no there’s no room for failure you just put one foot in front of the other until eventually
You get there but um I hope at one time in my career that there’s only one guy ahead of me and or zero guys ahead of me and I’m the guy so and I truly believe that you know I don’t know if that’ll ever happen but I I believe I can get
There so that’s you know people will probably laugh at that whatever I don’t really care it’s the way I feel about my game no I mean you’ve gotten like crazy close to that that’s the thing that I’m kind of getting at is the longer I this
The more I realize how many pro golfers there are I mean the volume is insane and to you know this is this is funny you know what I always think about I always think about how many bad golfers there are like terrible terrible golfers like I watch people and I’m like if I
Played golf like that I would quit I would never hit a golf ball if that’s the way I play golf this would just not be enjoyable well it’s it’s fun I’m wondering if you if you felt this at all either because nothing to me looks harder like when I’m going through back
Stuff and I’m out for a while than golf like I if I drive by a Golf Hall I’m like I can’t even like picture hitting a golf shot on this I’m wondering if like did it ever feel insurmountable in terms of like not only do I have to get all
The way back to health but I have also got to like now go out and beat all these dudes who are you have a year of practice on me now that I’ve uh that I’ve had to put the clubs away for a while I think the hardest part is
Looking at the amount of time it’s going to take to get to where you know you want to be right so like I could sit there and plan out six months in advance what I was going to need to do and when you look at something six months out in
Advance you’re like wow that is so much work and that is going to take so long and there’s going to be so many long days but then when you kind of just break it down into like a one day out of a Time mentality it becomes more
Feasible and it becomes doable and then next thing you know you know six months has gone by and you’re where you want to be and so that was kind of the biggest process for me is not looking at you know the long-term and really focusing on the short term and eventually you
Just start stacking these good days upon each other and you just start getting better and better and better and you’re like wow I’m where I wanted to be but you know I planned it six months ago I heard you say in an interview before too that you’ve uh you you’ve always written
Stuff down whether that be you know kind of take us there is that lessons you’ve learned from other people is that stuff you’ve kind of taught yourself or things you just want to remember do you still write a lot down do you look back on notes and stuff I’m wondering what that
Uh what that looks like yeah I mean I’ve I think I’ve always written stuff down since I was young I mean I’ve a journal from like 2007 or 2008 from like some of my first golf lessons you know and it’s just funny to like read the stuff that I
Was writing and like I’m like wow that’s that’s what I was working on back then but no I think it’s a good way to uh to give yourself perspective and to again really stack good days upon each other because when you don’t write it down you almost can get caught in this like
Negative outlook of where you don’t realize all the good stuff that have happened in a day all the things that you can be grateful for and and when you write them down I feel like it really sticks with you and you can go back and look at it and um
That was something that was really important to me and I would keep a journal of like how many golf balls I hit and how many chips I hit you know more recently in the last like year and a half because I was kind of tracking
You know my not my performance but I was tracking kind of on a ball count and so like I look back at and I’d be like a year and a half ago i’ hit 20 20 chip shots in 10 putts and now I’m up to
Hitting you know as many golf balls as I want but that wasn’t that long ago that I could only hit 20 chip shots and and feel like okay so I’ve come a long way since since that short time ago a little better than what I do I I uh if I find a
Swing field I’ll take out my notes app and just write the swing field down and and think that that’ll address my all of my golf problems forever I like your process it’ll it’ll probably help though that’s it’ll help like three days and then I forget about it and then try a
Whole new feel it’s uh it’s what the US Mortals have to have to go through but do you so you mentioned you don’t watch a lot of golf like do you do you watch any golf like do you still not have the PGA Tour app on your phone I believe
I’ve heard that from you in the past I just downloaded the PJ toour out because uh because I need to see sometimes like where I’m at or like you know I want to see what the cut is or whatever but no honestly I I I actually think golf is is
Entertaining to watch but I uh I don’t know it’s like when you’re not playing the game and and you feel like you can’t play to then like watch guys do what what you want to do is like so painful that it’s like not even worth watching
So I really stayed away from it I watched a lot of tennis I like watching tennis um but other than that it’s just been you know any other sport other than golf is the rider cupy different did you watch any of that I mean having been on
The 2021 I did watch the R I did watch the Ryder Cup that was the one thing I watched I actually thought it was it was really fun to watch you know more fun to be there in person but you know exciting to to see the guys competing out there
And representing their country it was it was cool I wish they you know would have uh got a few more victories there on some of those matches but you know it’s just it’s a good it’s a great tournament to watch what happened you know if
You’re if you’re a fan like me I was expecting the us to win you win in record fashion when you play at Whistling Straits and you go over and throw up a 40er stinker in the opening session I know you haven’t played on one
Of these away yet but as a as a golfer how does that happen how how how does uh you know can a HomeField Advantage really play that much of an effect because that it’s what it felt like from watching it the home field advantage is definitely a factor you know I don’t
Know if you know the the fan at home knows but the the home team controls the golf course right so they control the speed of the greens the length of the rough all of those you know small little factors but you know they’re looking at all the stats and they’re going all
Right well allar hit it 325 off the te we’re going to set the course up really long our guys putt better on really fast greens we’re going to make the greens really fast so you know it’s always to their advantage to set it up the way
That their players are going to play the best but you know obviously it just comes down to who plays better Golf and I think they played better Golf and they had the home crowd advantage and you know they made more putts and when you make more putts in a rider cup you’re
Gonna you’re going to play better that’s that’s the one piece of information I feel like over the last two team events that I’ve played and that’s what it that’s what it looks like the team that putts better plays better and they seem to make more putts what’s your your
Lasting memory from uh from whing Straits I’m I’m guessing for a lot of people the first thing that comes to mind is the uh the beer chug on the first tea but I wonder I’m wondering if that’s your your last e m the beard chug
On the first de for sure because I had told you know after after my opening round with Brooks we won the first uh the first match uh I was told by Captain Stricker I wasn’t going out in the afternoon I said well can I go to the
First tea and throw beers to the crowd um like they’re they’re going crazy like this would be a cool way to get him fired up and he was like he’s like listen if you do it I’m not saying yes you know so it’s not it’s not going to
Be me saying you could do it and I was like all right that was kind of a yes that was kind of a no I don’t really know and then finally I was just like JT was sitting there in the locker room and I was like Yo dude like let’s fill up
This bag with beers and let’s go check them at the crowd and we went out there and obviously you know things got a little out of hand and you know a beer landed on the floor and JT was like looking at me and I was looking at him
And I was like yeah let’s do it you know and um you know it looked like he probably hadn’t shotgun a beer in 10 years but I don’t think he shotgunned it I think he just tried to straight chug it I don’t think that yeah I don’t know
What he did my beer my beer was gone but you know I went to Florida State and you know we shotgun a few beers in college so I’m not saying that I’m good at shotgunning beers but I’m better than than him at it yeah you could have Club
You could have club twirled that one you had that one uh you had that one down and you were strutting off the other memory I have from that uh especially is when you and Brooks see almost got in a fight with a rules official uh on the
15th hole in your guys match uh take us to that spot cuz I remember you guys uh getting getting into with a rules official over some relief that wasn’t given well I sliced one about 50 yards right of the Fairway into like a hole I
Never seen a hole like this in my life and I would say like if I had to put the odds at it I would say nine out of tenen times in a PGA Tour event you would get a free job like just being honest I really believe that nine out of 10 times
A rules official would have given you a drop for like so you know they give you like you get these animal holes or whatever and like they just give you a drop and uh I mean obviously he wasn’t getting a drop and he was you know
Adamantly wanting one and I mean I was wanting one too but you know things get a little chippy in Ryder cups but in the end you just you just accept whatever the ruling is and you just play on and um you know we I think in that match we
Had a big early lead and we kind of faltered in the middle of round and we went from like a couple up early to a couple down and so it was a big momentum change uh with a couple holes to go and you know we didn’t play our best but you
Know we we have the the trophy at the end of the at the end of the week so it didn’t really matter you seem like a hyper competitive dude I can’t imagine just how much you you got to play a 2017 president cup 2021 Ryder Cup both on
Home soil like that that has to just be your type of environment that has to just be like what gets your juices flowing yeah and I think I just think the guys that I played on both of those teams with were like you know my kind of
People and um I think that’s what really you know creates a great environment for success is when you have you know 10 or 11 12 guys on a team that really like are competitive well everyone’s competitive but really like get along together and have that same kind of you
Know feed off that kind of energy and um I think a lot of those guys were around the same age as me for the most part JT Jordan uh Max all those guys were right around you know my age so you know we grew up playing together we’re feisty
And I think when you get those kind of guys together you know usually it’s a good recipe for Success uh remembering back to 2017 Saturday night you guys are up by a gajillion points uh over the international team you get interviewed going into into the final round do you
Remember what exactly what your quote was and did you get any uh any bash uh backlash from that after that happened yeah I think I think I said something along the lines of uh he asked me like you know what do you like how’s it going
To go tomorrow and I said well I you know I hope we beat them worse tomorrow then we beat them today or something and like Twitter I think at the time went crazy like oh my God you’re so you know disrespectful like this is a team competition and I was like dude if
You’re not thinking that then you should go get another job because every single guy on this team is thinking the exact same thing and uh you know I get it like people are kind of soft these days I feel like they’re just hyper sensitive and like I don’t know but why why what
Team environment would you not want to get up there and just crush crush them every single time and like try to set a record and beat them by more points than anyone’s ever beaten them and I feel lucky because the two team events I’ve ever played in like we I think we set
Records in both of them exact quote I mean our goal from them uh minute we got here was to crush them as bad as we can I hope that we close them out today and we go out there and beat them even go out there tomorrow beat them even worse
That’s great you’re exactly right like it’s come on it’s if if we can’t say something like that then what’s the point of having these competitions like 100% uh but no that was did you guys go a little too hard if I remember right on Saturday night uh little celebration
Before uh Sunday singles at the 2017 president’s come well no our our goal was to close them out on Saturday and I remember Charlie Hoffman haved or lost his match on Saturday to keep it going into Sunday and every time I see Charlie hoften I remind him about that match
That he didn’t win and uh and every time he sees me he just laughs about it but you know I don’t I mean I just think those team matches are about you know the camaraderie of the of of the group of people you’re with and you know every
Single guy on that team is just as competitive as I am so it’s a great it’s a great thing to be a part of it’s funny to look back at that I was watching a couple Highlights today and just the the T like tiger and Phil in the in the team
Room of that right as tiger how much has changed since then but God what was that so I feel so lucky that I was able to be like a part of a team environment with like two of like arguably the greatest golfers of of all
Time and like tiger was a was a Vice Captain and like he was in his prime like not prime but he was like healthy and he was like super involved and like Phil was playing it was just so cool to be around those guys and and to just
Hear them talk and to share stories and to just just be around that kind of greatness because was it like a little bit of eggshells in terms of because if I remember right I remember uh Phil made a putt or something on one of the holes
And tiger like did a big gesture and I remember us in the media were kind of like whoa like tiger like tiger rooting on Phil that that’s not how their careers have gone was it kind of like in that team room were you guys kind of feeling out what their relationship was
Like at that point you know they’re actually like they’re totally fine together I I don’t know if like the media makes it out to be something other than it is but you know like they are they’re totally fine and like we played pingpong one day and uh it was just so
Funny because you know Phil I feel like he thinks he’s the best at everything he does and like he we played ping pong and he was talking about how he’s like taken like hours and hours of lessons and like you know he’s this like world class pingpong player and he’s you know he’s
The best one there and like Tiger’s never played really I mean he’s played but he’s not really played and they were going at it oneon-one and it it was just funny to watch these guys like they’re both terrible at ping pong but they’re ultra competitive and just to watch them
Be bad at something and still want to win so badly I just was laughing the whole time do you have I hate when I ever ask this question but do you have like a go-to Phil Mickelson story I feel like everyone’s got one and I I could I
Could I could listen to all of them I have I have a lot of film melson stories I actually was I wouldn’t say I was close with him but you know I enjoyed you know hanging out with him and playing a couple practice rounds with him but the first year or maybe my
Second year on tour I had a three- shot lead at uh Memphis which was the first golf tournament I ever won I think he was like in second place trying to win the golf tournament and uh we there was like a two-hour rain delay in the final
Round and I used to I used to mess with him and I used to call him Phillip all the time and uh he came at me and he was like well you can’t call me Philip anymore until you win he’s like I’m Phil until you win and then I won that golf
Tournament for the rest of the year I just kept calling him Philip everywhere so I don’t know he’s a good dude I I think you know there’s a lot that’s gone on in the golf world but you know I respect everything he’s done for the game of golf and he’s been a great
Ambassador and those guys are gonna I mean they’re just the reason why people love watching the game you know like you regardless of how you feel about him you would turn on the TV to watch Phil Mickelson compete and like I was it last year he finished second in the Masters
And he’s he’s what is he 50 years old 51 years old he won a major he won a major at what 50 years old 51 when he won Aila and he’s 54 now or 53 now it’s insane I mean to win the PJ championship at 51
Years old is just it’s insane and it’s it was so good for the game of golf and like I remember watching the 18th hole the crowds coming down the Fairway I was like this is what we need in this game right now and it sucks to see like how
Far we’ve come from that moment to where we are now you know that’s exactly right I mean he’s just been an incredible Entertainer for all of us for so long and uh and yeah man it’s just crazy to look back at all the footage from all
That stuff and just just think about how much all has changed since then but growing up you you so if for people that aren’t familiar uh you know we don’t have to do your whole background story but you grew up in South Florida um say
Jupiter area I mean the the the names of the clubs and and and whatnot from the stories of your of your childhood sound quite familiar to to where you currently live but uh die preserve tell us about there working there and kind of how you found yourself in some in some money
Games there yeah I I grew up in Miami and uh my dad worked for the USA and uh their offices moved from Miami to boka so we moved from Miami to Jupiter so it was a little bit of an easier drive and uh my dad reached out toh one of his old
Uh tennis guys Ivon lendel and lendel set me up with one of his buddies Matt Doyle who was the uh who was one of the teaching pros at the diap reserve and took a lesson from Matt and he said hey if you ever want to come out here and
Play like we’ll set you up we’ll we’ll set up with a job you can caddy you can work the range and I was like my eyes lit up 15 years 14 15 years old I was like this is incredible and I spent every single day there from like 2000 I
Mean I don’t know how old I was 14 or 15 from sun up to sun down picking the range playing golf hanging out with the guys um it was it was an amazing time and and there was a bunch of Pros that were playing out there Steve Marino Jer
Parnov you know a ton of tour guys and I think they uh they had a little liking for me you know they saw that I was kind of a competitive guy I didn’t really take a lot of [ __ ] for a 14-year-old and you know Steve really brought me in
Which is so incredible of him you know he was a top 30 player in the world at the time and you know he would come out there and play golf with me and so I really from an early age I got to see some of the best players in the world
And got to play against them and I remember when I went to college you know my first college golf tournament I was like man these guys are not that good you know they’re good but they’re not that good when you’re used to playing with these you know PJ tour players and
So it kind of just gave me a different outlook on like what it takes to get good and and and what to expect and and from there I just I think I I owe a lot to Steve because he’s really he’s been there for me for a long time and he’s uh
He’s just a great dude and not a lot of guys I feel like would take a 14-year-old under their wing and spend time with them and play golf with them so I’m thankful for that for sure what is it about play like at that age playing with good players what what do
You take away do you remember specifically what you remember walking away uh thinking about and and how did that help you improve well first off I just remember watching him practice I remember seeing the stuff that he did just watching someone of that level and and being able to pick their brains on
Like what they’re doing and what they’re thinking about that just gets you such a step ahead when you’re not able to do that at you know even a later stage in your career like some of these guys that are coming out in college like they’ve never played against a PJ Tour player I
Mean these guys are better now coming out of college than than we were when I came out but you just have a an earlier sight at what your competition’s going to look like and and what to expect and you’re not as phased when you see what you’re playing up against tell tell me
About playing uh playing money games with with Steve Marino when you’re 14 15 years old or whatever it was well he uh he tells a lot of stories that are different from my recollection you know I think he was on coln podcast telling a story about you know taking my iPad
Which or iPod which was true was just my recollection of it was different than his recollection of it but you know I used to do like nine whole putting contests with him on the putting green for like 500 bucks and I had like $12 in my pocket in my recollection is that I
Beat him in a putting contest for $500 and he would not pay me and he made me go out and play holes with him and and like by the seventh hole he was up like $500 and uh but he’s he’s been there he’s been there for me for so long and
Again he was that first guy that really took me under his wing and um but yeah lesson to learn even it’s worth the price of an iPod or whatever did he hold on to it for a couple years the crazy the crazy thing was that he actually
Held on to the to the iPod for like two and a half years like maybe longer like three and a half years he had the iPod sitting on his dresser in his nightstand in his house and finally I think I made it to the corn Fury tour and made my
First check and I like gave him gave him like a thousand bucks and I was like dude stop telling that story to people because he was going around telling it to everybody he could tell it to so he’s a funny dude though that’s great that’s great there’s something there is
Something about uh just for me like moving to Florida and just getting to teed up with many toy guys every now and then is just a total total Game Changer like you just like your mindset totally changes and just watching good shots on repeat becomes that’s why I don’t I
Couldn’t tell if you know if your experience was you know stuff that you specific stuff you took away or just like hey when there’s a standard of golf right next to you happen happening you just naturally raise like your your your body wants to raise to that whatever
That level is like that’s the importance of competition no I think that’s that’s the best way to put it is just when you’re around it and you see it then you just raise your level to it so what how do explain to us kind of how the uh the
Clubs of of jup Life work right there’s Bears Club there’s medalists you hear about all these clubs like who how do you know do clubs like recruit Pros to come play it how do guys end up being members at one or two or three courses
What what’s the kind of the how the is it political situation explain to us how the how all that situation works down there well I was lucky because you know I’ve been here for a long time I’ve lived here since you know forever and um I think it was less challenging to get
Into some of these upper on clubs at the time because you know maybe Bears Club would have had you know 15 Pros playing there at the time and now they have 30 right and like you can’t have there’s only a limited number of spots to get
Into the Club you can’t have you know 60 Pros playing in there so it’s it’s it’s much more difficult now to get in but you know I had a great relationship with uh with Mr Nicholas and called him up on the phone and kind of explained my
Situation to him and he let me in and you know so I had the die preserve and I had the Bears Club and I feel like I had the best of both worlds I had you know two kind of completely separate golf courses and um you know one was a one
Was really challenging around the greens the Bears Club and and the die was always really tough off the tea so I could really practice two sides of my games getting ready for golf tournaments but yeah I mean there’s the amount of golf courses and the amount of good golf
Courses in uh in in this kind of like 60 mile radius of like you know bokeh to you know Hope Sound is just astounding and like I think you know there’s four or five new golf courses the apogee um and Hope Sound and you’ve got you know
Grove uh you got Michael Jordan’s golf course and you got the new discovery golf course and it’s just you got Panther National it’s like I don’t know where these golf courses are popping up and how they’re popping up so quickly but it’s really kind of becoming like
The mecca of golf this kind of South Florida region but yeah it’s competitive now to get into these courses as a pro because there’s just so many guys down here and there’s so limited amount of spots to get in that you really have to you know build a relationship with you
Know the people that make the decisions and and hopefully get lucky enough to join them how how do how do the games get arranged like is there one massive text chain for like all the Bears Club tour Pros do you have like little clicks that they go off in certain how do you
Get how do you find a forem and how competitive are the games I think at this point like I’ve been down here for so long and I’ve been at be I’ve been at the Bears Club in the die preserve for so long you you literally show up to the
Bears Club range and there’s you know 12 touring Pros practicing at a time 15 guys practicing and you know the guys that are more into the practice and you know the guys that are more into the playing and so I I tend to gravitate to
The guys that like to play more like you know Alex noren he’s practicer and uh you know Luke Donald is a player or Camilo is a player Keegan’s a player so you kind of find the guys that like to to play more and you find the guys that
Like to practice more and you just figure out which which guys are ready to go and I mean any at any given day like I said you could you could see 15 guys on the Range getting ready to you know to go to a tournament and it’s everyone
Wants to stay competitive so everyone wants to play golf and it’s it’s really actually super easy well the last topic I wanted to talk to you about was uh was confidence I might be asking this selfishly as someone who just royally shat the bed in a tournament recently but mental mental
Preparation is is valuable and I I want to know kind of what your journey has been like on that right I mean everybody goes through ups and downs when it comes to confidence but kind of what you fall back on uh from a mental standpoint it’s
Not as simple as hey just go have a good attitude out there and you’re going to play great I’m sure there’s a ton you’ve learned and how to channel confidence into success on the golf course I’m wondering uh what kind of lessons you could teach on that front well I think
That the most important thing with confidence comes down to to practice right like the more you practice the better you feel about your game the better um understanding you have of what shots going to come out so for me that’s what practice all is all about it’s about building confidence and what
You’re going to go do out on the course but I think the realization that everyone’s going to hit bad shots you know it’s just a part of the game is really kind of something that like relaxes me because you’re not going to go out and and play 18 holes and hit you
Know 18 perfect shots off the te and 18 perfect putts and 18 perfect chips or whatever so it’s really just about getting over the ball and just doing the best that you can do at that time and accepting the result and I feel like the confidence comes from being okay with
Hitting you know shots that aren’t perfect andly enough for me I’ve played 25 years years of golf and I’ve seen everything can see on a golf really shocks me yeah it just makes it much easier I’ve heard you also talk about breathing like the importance of breathing whenever I’ve
Tried this I just I find myself getting more nervous like the more deep breaths I try to take but is there a science to kind of breathing and managing nerves and and how how that affects your golf game yeah number one thing that I always
Do on the golf course is breathe um I always try to make a big exhale right before I take the club away or you know right before I take the putter back and um it’s something that I’ve that I’ve worked on since I was like 14 or 15
Years old and I find in the biggest moments in the most important the most pressure-filled moments the only thing I’m ever thinking about is my breathing it never is about am I gonna make this putt am I GNA hit the green am I gonna hit it in the Fairway it’s always
Focused on the breath and it’s always focused on you know the exhale right before I take the club away and and then it kind of frees you up it kind of takes away any thought of anything else going in your mind it’s it’s like a little mini version of meditation but I’m sure
You know my method may be simple compared to you know what some of these other guys do but I think if you looked at the top 20 players in the world they would all have some sort of breathing technique that they’re using before they’re hitting a golf shot gosh i’t I
Haven’t thought of it that way in long long time I’m gonna take that take that with me what’s uh for for the listeners what’s what’s your plan kind of for the rest of the year are you playing everything that you’re in what can people expect to see you in and and kind
Of what’s the rest of your year look like yeah I think it’s going to be kind of an evolving schedule as the year goes on um just based on how I play um you know I know I’m going to play this week at the cognizant which is you know my
Home event and um I think I’ll add events here and there but just not knowing exactly what tournaments I’ll be in in terms of the elevated events you know based on my Play It’s kind of just gonna have to evolve as as the year goes on but just lucky and and and grateful
That I’m healthy and and and can play in as many golf T tournaments as I want to play in well we look forward to watching it man we appreciate your time uh today we’re glad to have you back and healthy and playing some golf and uh we look
Forward to seeing you down the road appreciate your time thanks Chris appreciate it cheers
