This week on the Caddie Tales Podcast, Mark, and our special guest, looper extraordinaire, Nick, delve into the dynamic world of caddying with a discussion that’s all about pace: the timely, the tardy, and the timeless strategies for keeping the game moving. This episode tackles every aspect of golf’s tempo.
The pair share stories from the links, including a comical clash involving a group of New Yorkers, a golf marshal, and the trials of maintaining pace. We’ll explore the influence of personality types on the course—from the Type A golfer to the laid-back enthusiast—and the hidden art of caddies managing them all.
Brush up on your knowledge of pre-shot routines and the effect of younger versus older golfers’ approach to the game. Mark’s funny take on early whining in golf is bound to evoke a chuckle, just before we swing into an insightful conversation about the cultural impact of playing speed on the sport.
So, mark your scorecard, ready your earbuds, and join us on the virtual fairway for a riveting episode of the Caddie Tales Podcast – because in golf, as in life, timing is everything.
Remember to keep your feet firmly planted and follow through for an episode that promises to enhance your love of the game and maybe even shave a few minutes off your round. Tune in to the Caddie Tales Podcast and become part of the movement for a smoother, swifter, and more respectful golf experience.
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Today’s podcast is sponsored by atomic golf if you need custom ball markers divot repair tools and more that are made from highquality materials like solid copper and brass and look really good then you should check out our friends at Atomic golf if courses like old Barnwell landman sweeten scove and
More are already working with them then you should too visit Atomic golf. club and follow them on Instagram at Atomic golf this is something you get better at as you become a more veteran caddy I certainly have gotten better at it so much so that I was with a caddy this
Year a young guy who uh much thinner much younger much quicker and he kept marveling at my speed there the first time in my life somebody just kept talking about how fast I was wow yeah yeah I know you’re right hello and welcome once again to the caddy Tales podcast I’m Mark the
Caddy I’m here once again with my sidekick and fellow caddy Nick and we are excited to talk about how golf mirrors life life mirrors Golf and there’s so many lessons that transcend uh both the course and our everyday comings and going so really fun and
Excited to be with you again how are you doing today Nick doing well Mark uh I I think Spring’s coming I can I can feel it you know we got uh M Masters right around the corner uh golf on TV love it yeah speaking of that did you I was
Traveling uh this weekend I went to visit my daughter and um I didn’t get to watch any golf on television but I did you know follow occasionally Along on X but um what’ you think of the tournament this weekend was good uh matama was hot
At the end there uh playing out of his mind so that was good to see um he’s kind of the hot golfer right now I think he played pretty well last so we kep the waste management too um good to see will zator hopefully starting to figure out
His putter uh that was kind of a Hot Topic what his putter looked like I’ve I’ve seen those before I’ve seen players use those Putters before they’re kind of weird looking but whatever gets the ball in the hole right yeah I had to laugh at
A couple of things I saw with uh hii one I there was a must have been like a I don’t know what shot it was but he kind of acted all upset after uh he hit it kind of shoulders and stuff and it ends up like
A foot from the hole and I thought about how many times um you know the players do that and I saw something on X that somebody said that a caddy over in Ireland or Scotland would uh tell a player they had Bal when uh they acted
Like that and it was that’s the word that they use for early wine and I’m like oh that’s just awesome because there’s so many times guys act all upset and then the ball’s like right next to the Hole uh yeah we we I would say like one one penalty stroke for early whining
You know yeah yeah and then uh his caddy was right on brand I saw the picture of him hitting his dab pen while he was waiting for other groups to finish and like wow he’s a caddy I guess but but not this caddy but uh certainly I I’ve
Seen and heard of that kind of antic going on but you know just like last week excuse me with the um Waste Management this week’s topic kind of gets teed up for us by the tournament that happened over this weekend last week you remember we talked about uh how
Important is golf edicate to us and we talked in light of the waste management with all the chaos this week we are going to talk about pace of play and I had to laugh at just all the tweet I mean this is a passionate topic for some
People Patrick Klay in the lead in the final group and man the Venom towards him from some people on X is amazing and uh really really critical of his pace of play and uh I got to thinking you know is it important to me I’m just going to
Say right off the bat it’s one of the most important things to me as far as my quality of life as a caddy if you asked me you know on a on on a certain day of course you want to maximize your earnings over the course of a season but
If you said to me Mark uh today you’re going to make 15% less with this group but you’re going to finish 40 minutes quicker mhm I’m a lot of days taking that group that’s going to play 40 minutes faster I don’t know what you think about that Nick yeah I agree uh
Sometimes like it gets a little monotonous out there uh with all the waiting and everything and trying to make small talk all the the time it’s uh it can be a little painful sometimes me more than you I think but yeah I was going to say I I’m a little more
Comfortable with that than you are but but there’s plenty of days that I’m out there with players who aren’t comfortable with it so I’m just kind of standing there and Ed up yeah yeah uh so you know let’s set the scene for our listeners here we work at a you know a
Major Resort and the golf course that we are on predominantly is very very very difficult but it’s it’s just big it’s a big Endeavor and so when we go to the starters table set the scene for our listeners the assistant there will tell our players always that the pace of play is five
Hours and I see two general reactions to that what what do you think is one of them right off the bat Nick especially from people who belong to a private club uh they’ll gasp and say you know oh my gosh how’s this round going to take five hours that’s incredibly long you know
It’s it’s not even like a thought like it’s not even possible to them but yeah yeah yeah and they’ll say something like oh we always play in three at home and uh so you know right off the bat you’re like ah this might be a challenge because it’s just a different thing
You’re you’re walking with four people instead of in a cart people don’t know the course so there’s got to be more thinking and explanation lot lot of picture taken pictures you know yeah yeah uh so there’s that and then the other reaction that I see and this is one that actually
Like has become a warning sign for me rather than a sign of Hope is players will say oh you’re not going to have to worry about us and I actually uh write about that in my book Caddy Tales well you’re not going to have to worry about us we play fat
What that tells me is that they’re not that self-aware because every group says they play Fast there I have never met a player yet who has come up to me and said hey Mark good to meet you I’m glad you’re going to be my caddy I just want
To let you know I’m really deliberate and slow yeah never yeah never everybody thinks they play fast but there are some who come to the course and are extremely humble in their approach toward it and then there are some who think it’s just be like a normal day and so they you’re
Not going to have a problem with us and I found quite often you do have a problem uh with them so uh you know pace of play is something that because we work at a busy course is stressed and we’re going to talk a little bit later
On about how you can go too far with it you know for those of you listening we don’t want you to think we’re just going to trash players here for the next 30 minutes about being slow and how it’s aggravating and all that kind of stuff but
Um we do think that it kind of matters for how the day goes for everybody it just makes for a more pleasant experience even if the time difference isn’t all that different just the uh consistent pace is even helpful for people and uh emotionally psychologically all that so
You know what are some things Nick let’s maybe help people understand from our perspective what are some of the time drains that exist out there that they make for a slower Round And if people kind of were more thoughtful about it or if these habits didn’t exist everybody would move quicker can
You think of one uh yeah I mean usually it’s like someone’s pre-shot routine so usually figure that out right away like on the first T box you see somebody waggling like 10 15 20 times and you’re like oh boy we’re in for it today yeah I have a strong opinion about or an
Observation about the pre-shot routine that might surprise some people but I’ll ask if you agree or if you’ve seen the same thing what who do you think is more uh who who do you think takes longer for instance the younger player or the older player probably the younger player I
Think the older guys usually you know kind of have it figured out by that that stage in life hopefully yeah no I I think it’s not even probably I think by a long shot like younger guys maybe have seen have watched golf on TV more with some of the current players and mimic
Some of that stuff um and and older guys tend to be you know all of them that are out there tend to be pretty typ a guys who have been used to being in control and in charge their whole life and and they play Golf the same way but some of the
Pre-shot routines are crazy do have you ever seen one that just kind of blows your mind yeah I mean I’ve seen guys that like adjust their gloves like way too much and um yeah like I said like the Waggles can get out of hand sometimes yeah um what else like alignment like a
Lot of guys will I’ve seen players which is illegal but they’ll like lay a club down before they even line up um which is kind of weird but I don’t know it’s all trying to you know be better at the game but some of these things are a
Little taking a little too far yeah yeah you know it’s like you don’t want to rush people but you also are like oh boy and so like I always when I have a guy who I actually had one guy a couple years ago that I remember though like he
Was the exact opposite like he just got up and it wasn’t even a pause like not only did he not take practice swings he didn’t even pause for a second and so there was numerous times during the round I didn’t even see him swing because
Down for a happens a lot yeah yeah so there are certainly those people but um yeah so pre-shot routine is a huge one and I just feel like they’re getting longer that would be my nonscientific observation is that even in the five years that I’ve done this job they feel like they’re getting
Longer and certainly amongst the younger players yeah I mean I think like you just go up and hit the ball like more you you can take your mind out of the game I think you’re going to be better off so that’s that’s how I feel about it
Yeah I mean think about how many times have you seen a player uh either do a putt or uh hit a shot you know shank it whatever after a very long deliberate pre-shot routine and it’s terrible and then in Anger they get up and hit it a second time and it
Either goes in or straight down it’s the talent is there it’s their mind that’s screwed up the the first shot so you want to just say hit the ball um it will help you we promise so there’s one another one and this is especially true I think uh Ridder cup year um when
People are playing matches and they’re close the time spent on the greens uh I mean you have some Loops where it just feels like people are looking at those putts way too long yeah I mean I if someone asked me for a read like in you’re like a foot or two away
And just like straight just you know just hit it and you know I don’t even really look at it um yeah yeah I don’t know I I get it I get it those Ridder Cup matches and stuff are fun but uh when you’re putting everything out
Um it’s kind of it’s annoying um well or even even you know like when people want a precise read from like 100 feet you know it’s like yeah just lag it up there you know yeah try to get it close yeah yeah somewhere if it goes in it’s not
Because we gave you the right read it’s uh pretty just luing you know it’s a miracle yeah and you know I know I always I always think when I say stuff like that there’s some listener who’s like blocking us and will you know never ever listen to us again because they
Think we’re being flippant or negative I mean it’s just it’s just statistics and uh the same thing is true on the PGA tour so if they don’t make them we’re not going to have a high make rate either and so it’s like yeah it lag
It up there from right to left you know and uh we don’t need to hit an exact blade of grass but you know I I think that the time on the greens is really really long I I would say of all the things that people when they have a
Caddy or when they come to a place like ours of all the things that maybe um they think is that they’re going to benefit from or that they’re going to do better it’s putty yeah yeah and and and sometimes that’s true I mean I’d like to think we’re saving people’s strokes and
Really helping them there’s no doubt that happens but there’s also I think just that uh it can it can kind of be excessive or we can we can over deliberate you know and yeah um and I’ve even seen young caddies who are like when they’re afraid of their players
Like let’s say you have a younger caddy or a less self-confident caddy and he’s with this CEO of a company who’s got just just got that kind of personality mhm um all of a sudden he’s just he’s first of all he’s afraid to tell him a
Spot because he doesn’t want to be wrong and be yelled at or glared at so then he’s like kneeling behind them then he’s running around the back of the hole and kneeling there and then he’s acting like he’s solving some complex mathematical equation and uh yeah yeah and so um it
It it it’s it’s there’s so much that goes into it along with the speed of the putt I could hit a pebble whatever that I have become more laid-back about it but it yeah a lot of time is spent on that one that I know you mentioned to me
When we were talking at the coffee shop the other day is people looking for golf balls oh think we look too long yeah for sure um I I mean give it like a minute or two and if if we still can’t find it then you know call it uh drop one down
And you know play on from there um but yeah it’s like the the Ridder cup thing like you said I mean if you got matches um you know guys guys will look for like five minutes and it’s like I don’t know that’s just doesn’t seem like
It’s in the spirit of the game like are we having a good time like not really so yeah let’s let’s move on the one that I always the the the thing I always have to laugh at is um when there’s like say a creek or whatever and it’s clear the ball went in
It you know and from a t-shot for instance and how players still a number of them still just go up and walk along the edge and just St or just look at it and I’m like looking at it being sad about it isn’t going to make it there you know
It’s uh and and you know there’s again there’s the flip side where I have players who won’t look for two seconds for a ball um you know there’s that too uh and I want to say dude we got we we do have some time here we can look we
Give we’ll we’ll find it yeah yeah but then there’s other times where it’s like you know this is who you this is so far offline and into jum I mean we we’ll give it a few minutes but um you know it’s kind it’s kind of off topic but
I’ve seen so many people like go go in for a ball too and like I’m like what are you doing you’re going to fall in the water and like completely ruin your day for for a $3 golf ball like just let it go just drop another one we got more
In the bag I’m guarantee it I have been in there I I’ve been there I was on uh not on a course and um player hits It On a par five into a into a creek MH and it’s it’s clearly in there we see the ball you know finally but he’s it takes
Forever and I’m like okay we need to drop another one and because you know there’s four players I start walking to the other guy okay had given the guy information you know we’re 150 yards out whatever so he hits the ball but then all of a sudden I hear a
Splash and the guy had he just couldn’t give up on the golf ball oh and and much like a lot of players I mean he’s a high net worth guy but you know there he just had it fixated in his brain I don’t want to lose this golf ball so he falls in
And it was like early in the round not even halfway through and um it was chilly it wasn’t like a warm day and so he has to call the pro shop and have them deliver pants out and I saw the pants were $265 and I’m like I don’t know I I
Wasn’t happy I wasn’t like uh laughing at the guy but in my mind I’m like was oh was it worth it you know just3 golf ball yeah kid and um so uh you know I’m I’m pretty flipping about golf balls I find so many of them I mean if I if I
Don’t see it I’m like that’s gone you know and I can see how maybe others aren’t as flipping but um and they want to save The Strokes and they want their score and they’re playing a match maybe and all that but there does come a point where it’s like there’s some guys who
It’s like they’ll they’ll look forever and you got and you got to be kind of like gently persistent like hey I think we got to go you know because you also feel like a failure because you didn’t find it you know and so it’s kind of it can be an awkward
Situation um I threw out on my Twitter yesterday if anybody had any questions yeah and one came up that uh relates to the next time drain that I want to talk about uh a guy John and he had some weird Twitter handle so I’m not even
Gonna try to say it like x2d gf3 whatever um he asked you know how can convince players that it’s not rude to like go and tap in their two foot putt or continually Putt and what he was really asking is how can you convince people that it’s not rude to play Ready
Golf and um I think one of the time drains that you’ll have is when people don’t play Ready Golf and that’s something that’s like you know I get it on the PGA tour there’s you know the person who’s furthest away hits the ball but it’s really that can’t translate to
Recreational golf with mid to high handicappers and all that kind of stuff there’s it’s got to be ready Golf and especially and I think we might have even mentioned this last week especially when you have two sets of people who don’t know each other they want to be
Very polite it’s not that they don’t it’s not like they’re jerks it’s it’s exactly the opposite it’s not that they um want to play slow or whatever they just haven’t set that social standard that not being impolite if they hit the ball what do you think yeah no doubt
Yeah I completely agree um and yeah I guess it’s just like you just talk to them before the round and tell them you know guys we’re going to play Ready golf today so uh just be prepared for that and uh yeah sometimes you have to tell them every
Hole yeah yeah true yeah um that’s one that like especially on the greens I’m like okay you’re two feet tap it in tap it in don’t mark it let’s go you know tap it in and uh is you know or the gimmies or whatever just tap it in and
Let’s keep going um yeah I was like on whole one I was say like you know we got to establish that that gimme Circle early and you know if somebody’s got like a four-footer or something I’ll kind of give them like a oh that’s good right you know yeah yeah yeah and some
People you know say right off the bat there’s no gimmies and then you know it’s like hey how about we do some continuous putting or uh whatever and um you know so that is a Time drain that exists is not playing ready gol uh if if everybody stayed back for the
Person who was furthest away I can’t even begin to imagine how long those rounds would be and I know there’s some purists out there who are like you’re going to get hit by no we have some ways that we can do get ahead without being
In the line of the ball and um without obstructing the person who’s hitting and all that but um like I said the challenge that I find in this the the underlying challenge to all of these things that we’re bringing up is what happens on tele vision and what is in
The official rules of golf that you want to respect especially because golf is that kind of ah gentleman’s game or gentle person’s game they they don’t translate very efficiently all the time to what we’re doing yeah agre and so you got to have some flexibility there’s got
To be a spirit of the rule last one that I wanted to touch on and this is one where people will even tell you before the round that they’re going to do this and then they hardly ever do it okay and that is uh they say we pick up at triple
Bogey or oh yeah or we’re playing a match best ball and so if somebody’s out of the hole they’ll pick up yeah yeah and you know how many times they don’t pick up all the time yeah everybody wants to play every hole Yeah Yeah and again I
Get it but you know if somebody’s uh languishing for a 12 on a par five when their Partners in in five it just you know it’s unnecessary time as it relates to Pace of play as far as it relates to the experience and their happiness and all that stuff that’s a different uh
Discussion or argument but it certainly doesn’t help pace of play and so I have found guys who play together at the same country club um to be kind of the exception to the rule there like they have very established social standards so if they’re a pick up on triple bogey kind
Of group you’re picking up on triple bogey you know like these guys play together all the time they yeah they know the expectation uh have you ever seen someone just get super upset though because of pace of Play Issues out there yeah uh I mean I’ve been a part of a few
Groups where we’ve been the group and and that can be kind of awkward and uh actually I can think of a time where I had a group from from New York and uh for our viewers if you’re unfamiliar with playing New Yorkers um playing with New Yorkers they’re a little different
Than than you and I Mark and I are you know nice calm midwesterners we’ve got a a way of saying things to people and um New Yorkers can be a little different and so one time I was catting for this group of New Yorkers and they were the
Slow group all day um so we get to like whole four and the Marshall is on us all day um and my guy standing over his ball and the Marshall’s like creeping up on us in the cart and uh he can hear this so he he steps away from the ball once
Marshall creeps up again stands over the ball Marshall creeps up again and I think on like the third time he’s like you know I can eing hear you and uh and he’s just going off on the Marshall and I’m like oh boy this is gonna be
Terrible so then like we get the whole nine and we see the the the pros out at the turn and that’s never a good thing um because he’s going to yell at he’s gonna be like dude what what is going on with your group why are you so slow
You’re holding up the entire course like everyone behind you is complaining um so yeah they just didn’t get the memo all day and it was just just misery um but you know what are you going to do yeah and you know what I fight about groups like that too is
They’re probably one of the groups at the starters table who said oh you’re not going to have to worry about us we play Fast yeah but then when confront and we tell people like if you’re slow there’s going to be somebody there to speed you along you know they’re told
And then inevitably they’ll use this phrase I paid a lot of money to be here I’m going to enjoy my round and it’s like so so did everyone else you know everyone else has paid a lot of money to play here too and they want to have a
Good experience so yeah and I I mean I totally get it but yeah that’s something that you’ll have now speaking of New Yorkers this will kind of Veer our conversation to the flip side of we can get a little carried away with pace of play occasionally there’s that Marshall who’s maybe just a
Little too zealous oh yeah and um there was a hole we got to and we’re within half a hole of the people in front of us you know yeah and he says you know he says something like close the gap or whatever stay on them yeah and I you
Know I didn’t think of anything moment but we’re walking up the Fairway after the t- shots and I’m pretty sure my guy must have shanked his shot I’m not sure I can’t remember that part but the Litany of f Bombs Up The Fairway and the slamming of club and absolute
Tyd was uh you know I’m and I’m like man I am just I I totally am not getting tipped well today because this guy is angry and it’s going to spill over into everything else and I was right absolutely true and uh you know he was
Just he was he was all New Yorker and uh by the way people we generally love New Yorkers for many other reasons they’re just there’s no doubt that you can spot one uh they’re different and uh but usually different good um so anyway just absolutely going nuts the whole way up
And so actually whenever I had seen that Marshall the rest of the year uh I would warn players like hey he might say something to you but we’re fine okay you know like I would try to a preemptive strike or whatever because the challenge for us is and I this has probably come
Up on all these topics we’ve been doing is that we don’t want to have an adversarial relationship with players and yet we have this job to do and we have to be responsible to all the people behind us to and so how do you how do you guide people without getting
Contention and having them mad at you and um you know and and I would say sometimes uh some guys are too rough uh and then sometimes some caddies are like ah don’t worry about it because they don’t want their tip to be affected or whatever you know and uh there’s there’s
Probably somewhere uh in the middle you know um another example of where I think like people we have those players who like are so concerned about Pace a play it’s like we mentioned they won’t hit a um or won’t look for a lost ball or sometimes
This happens this has happened a lot for me when I have a wife with her with her husband you know an older retired couple that demographic tends to be very I don’t know if they like joined a club later in life and had pace of play beating into them or something because
They are skittish it’s like you know apologizing after a bad shot right away or oh we got to go we got to hurry um and uh and so you know you’ll see that um quite a bit and so we want to we want to just kind of walk that line between
Of course like let’s have a great day let’s make this pleasurable let’s not rush and at the same time let’s be deliberate and uh keep things going so and like everything you know there’s some days it’s easier than others uh you know before we uh conclude here today
Nick Ty tying into this topic we want to do our good CAD bad caddy segment okay so let’s use an example that uh We’ve thrown out there you’re out there it’s uh four guys playing their match and you know there’s a group in front of them a
Group behind them that is also part of the same group and this match has got big stakes and it’s the last day and there’s a lot riding on it as far as that group is concerned and so you’ve got uh one um you’ve got guys who are standing over
Putts like for minutes on end and you know all just talking to each other about each one or whatever or you’ve got that guy in the group who’s not doing well and he’s not picking up his ball though okay so you’ve fallen behind you’re now two holes behind the group in
Front of you but you’re with some guys playing for big money you’re with some guys who think their match is the most important thing happening at the course that day two holes behind how does Nick handle it uh yeah just I I think I would just like like you’ve said before there’s
Usually like a a leader in the group you know the guy that’s kind of set everything up and you know he’s he’s got the scorecard usually um talk to that guy and be like hey we’ve got to talk to the other guys and be like we gotta we
Got to pick up the pace a little bit if we could like establish like you know three-foot gimmies or something like that um that would be great that’s that’s how I would handle it yeah I think that’s one of the ways and then I think this is something you get better
At as you become a more veteran caddy I certainly have gotten better at it so much so that I was with a caddy this year a young guy who uh much thinner much younger much quicker and he kept marveling at my speed there the first time in my life somebody just kept
Talking about how fast I was wow yeah yeah I know you’re right right and uh it was because I knew how to you know like as soon as that player swung his Club I had the bags on the shoulders and I’m going to the you know like no
Watching it no having the clubs you know you’re you’re deliberately and so you’re trying to stay out in front of them and set the tone yeah yeah you know leading by example yeah yeah and and you know some days you’re tired and it’s hard but uh especially with the slower groups you
Really need to stay out in front of them establish the pace uh like like like you said there’s usually a leader that you can go to and and then you know if need be on a t box you’re going to say hey guys this is where we’re at and I want
To let you know that if we don’t speed up they’re going to come out and move us ahead of hole okay and sometimes you got to give them the tough love and uh and and I’m one who believes strongly in it and so I’ll do that but you know there’s
Others who that would make them other caddies I know who that would make them entirely uncomfortable but uh so I mean I you you been like in the group behind a super slow group before and you know how that feels and you know how that that’s sucks and so you kind of always
Have that in the back of your mind you’re like all right we got we can’t be the slow group because we’re going to have we’re going to make everybody behind us miserable and then yeah it’s terrible so yeah we’ve got an interesting perspective being caddies you know we’ve we’ve seen and you know
This gets back to something that I think is is just part of all these discussions we’ve been having is it if golf is set apart and if and if it’s a gentleman’s game and if it’s one where there’s honor and respect and all of that that has to
Include how we respect the people around us and if I added criticism of golfers after doing this for five years if there’s something that I would say it’s not my favorite thing about them is that the type a nature of many the the boss-like nature means that very often and they’re
Not as open to direction as maybe you would want them to be they’re used to being in charge and in control and they’re also used to being the powerful person in the room they’re used to being the person that people are accommodating you know that’s not always true but it’s often true of
People that we meet and so a lot of times I think that um the world is revolving a little bit too much around them and so that would that would probably be the the and and that can kind of lead into other topics and stuff that a little more humility and a little
Bit more uh respect and gracefulness regarding the people that are around you would be something that I would love to see a little bit more of and um and so you know we will we will continue to do our part as uh caddies to help you know
Make it an enjoyable experience for all and uh to just do the best we can to say uh we are going to have a great day out here and part of that includes how we just approach uh the day as well so all right Nick thank you as always this was
Fun to talk about look forward to shifting gears here in the next week or two to some other uh series of topics that we have planned hope you listeners out there are enjoying our first uh few episodes of caddy Tales we look forward to Growing with you and this is Mark the
Caddy reminding you that just like on the golf course on this side of the ground in life there is always a next shot so go ahead and take it
