In this edition of STORY MODE, Brian Shaw (3x NBA champion, 14-year NBA vet & Clippers assistant coach) joins to discuss playing with the Young Lakers and Magic. Also, the guys talk about guarding Michael Jordan fresh off his first retirement and what’s it like having Larry Bird as a teammate. Then, find out what really happened behind the scenes of the infamous choking incident between former Warriors player Latrell Sprewell and his head coach P.J. Carlesimo. #paulgeorge #brianshaw #losangelesclippers #losangeleslakers #orlandomagic #shaquilleoneal #kobebryant #michaeljordan
0:00 Intro
3:30 Game 7 of WCF vs The Blazers
7:00 How To Play With Shaq & Kobe
10:00 Surprised Kobe Through Shaq The Lob
11:15 If Lakers Lose To Blazers Do Lakers Break Up
13:30 Preparing To Face Iverson in the NBA Finals
17:58 How Winning Effected Shaq & Kobe’s Relationship
20:10 Guarding Allen Iverson – Hand Check Rule
23:35 Lakers Shaq vs Magic Shaq
24:58 How Good Was Penny Hardaway
28:15 Penny vs Young Kobe Story
31:20 Young Kobe’s Dominance Mindset
32:23 Kobe Played 1 on 1 vs JR Rider
34:00 How Phil Coached Kobe Bryant
38:19 Facing Jordan in the 1995 Playoffs
40:15 Feeling In The League After MJ Retired
42:00 How Good Was The 72 Win Bulls
46:30 Shaq Leaving For LA Reaction
49:40 How The Brian Shaw Court Case vs Boston Celtics Happened
57:02 Being Larry Bird’s Teammate
1:05:35 Lakers Almost Getting Kevin Garnett & Chris Paul
1:09:00 Coaching Pacers Paul George
1:19:00 P.J. Carlesimo and Sprewell Chock Story
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People talk about him shooting the ball not wanting to pass the ball he would pass the ball but then if you missed a couple shots when he kicked it out to you he’ll tell your ass if you don’t hit the next one I ain’t passing that [ __ ]
To you no more Kevin male was locking Carl Malone up on the other end and Larry was talking about yeah we to bad white boys ain’t we Penny was like I can’t wait till we play the Lakers I’mma go with that young boy he tried to embarrass me he changed back to number
23 so we came out it was like oh [ __ ] fre well he was like a crazed animal welcome back to another episode of podcast P presented to you by prize pick a wave sports and entertainment original we have another special guest in the building to present to you guys another
Episode of story mode this guy right here has been a part of my career almost from the very start one thing I love about him he ain’t afraid to tell it how it is introducing my guy [Applause] beaw appreciate you coming on to the show B appreciate you finally having me
I man been on a year year year and a half and but it’s all good we were saving it you know we were saving it for a special time he been waiting too P at your event the golf he got it he got on me for you oh okay cuz he been waiting
On you to tell him when he going to do the podcast I just want to be a part man that’s all I I ain’t lie afraid to tell her how it is give some context cuz you know we said the word afterthought I want you to kind of you know this is
Your opportunity to kind of explain to Paul why why that’s a new nickname well you know I’m sure like when Mr I saw that Mr bomber had been on here so I’m sure when he came he got more than like a day or two notice to to come on the
Show and you know what everything was going to be about so it just led me to believe you know cuz I’m a truth teller that I was probably an afterthought like you know you couldn’t find a guest you needed to fill the slot it’s Allstar
Break is here we leaving on the plane in about an hour from now and so you know who can we get to come at the last minute the afterthought be offw so you afterthought I’m you know Black Thought is is in the roots and I’m after did you
Dirty like that no that a that a’t that ain’t all the way true so we we we’ve always threw it out like he yo let’s get B let’s get B Shaw like you know he got story for days you know he’ll He he’ll be great for this setting cuz you know
He played with all of them he he didn’t been and seen everything five decades five decades that’s the 80s 9s 2000s 2010s and now we in the 2020s you still look young 57 you know ain’t bad it just so happened at the time that we needed
To shoot this it it it couldn’t work out for nobody’s schedule it’s all good so it was a timing a timing thing I got love for you so I’m going be here you call on me I’mma be here for you on we just got a uh just a heads up we’re
Shooting this uh during the allstar break so anything that happens during Allstar Weekend we’ll address that the following Monday so make sure y’all like subscribe and stay tuned to podcast P follow all of our socials all right well this is a special episode of story mode
So we want to get right into the stories right away 2000 this was the height of my basketball uh you know early watching being a kid watching the Lakers we’re going back to game seven Western Conference Finals y’all playing the Portland Trailblazers in a pivotal game seven that probably could have changed
The landscape of that decade um if y’all lost to the Blazers y’all go on and win you hit some clutch threes but during that was there any point where y’all wavered y’all confidence or was y’all like man we we in a hole cuz y’all was down big what was that what was that
Huddle like well it was you know we felt like that Western Conference Finals was going to be that was actually the championship for us um Portland all season long had been the team you know they just gotten pipping uh Steve Smith and sabonis all the guys that they had
That Rashid Wallace that they had on that team and so we knew that it was going to come down to the two of us um and momentum is a funny thing we had it early in the series they caught fire later on and um you know and in that
Game seven they got up huge on us and I just remember beginning of fourth quarter Phil Jackson said we were looking to get the ball in the shack too much and we got to just let it go and so when your coach tells you basically you
Got the green light to let it fly you know I made up my mind as well as you know Rick Fox and Robert Ory and the rest of the guys we throw it in the shack they go double team him he kicks it out now we GNA Let it Fly And So It
Gave us the freedom to you know to do that Portland was up standing up hooting and hollering and talking a lot of [ __ ] that entire time when they got that lead um you know but we felt like okay they Front Runners let’s see you know let’s
We not going out like this yeah and um you know I had played with Shaq in Orlando prior um and we got swept in the finals against elijan in the in the Houston Rockets in 1995 and so I know we looked at each other and was like you know definitely
We not going out like that again and so uh you know hit the first one hit the next one momentum started to change and then you saw them kind of playing more not to lose as opposed to playing to win um and so you know the rest this history
That was a a young code what like what was in that moment did did you see more of the vocal leader in C that that rallied y’all together oh like who was the vocal leader in that moment when y’all was going through that stretch well I mean
It was really it was it was our coach um Kobe and Shaq both led by led by example you know so they just went out there and got it done now what I what I appreciate about Kobe especially ESP is he wasn’t you say that I’m not afraid to tell the
Truth and tell it like it is he was that way on the floor you know people talk about him shooting the ball not wanting to pass the ball he would pass the ball but then if you missed a couple shots when he kicked it out to you he’ll tell
Your ass if you don’t hit the next one I ain’t passing this [ __ ] to you no more and I don’t want to hear your mouth about about me not passing the ball you know so he put that pressure on you and either you you know you could take it
You know or you couldn’t and so um I think it was just more of a feeling and more of a look that once we once we started going you know we knew what we had as a team and once we got it going nobody needed to say say anything and it
Just flowed um and happened the way it happened organically um and in our confidence we never it never wavered um but once the momentum changed back into our favor we just rode it on you know to the end what is that like like playing
With them two like I just saw uh I think it was like Iguodala I think PJ Tucker was even on it but they were talking about how it can be difficult to get going as a player when the ball’s not in your hands and so you have those two
Guys on your team and then you have the added pressure of Kobe telling it like it is and coming up to you and saying hey if you don’t make the next shot I’m not passing it to you how as a player do you kind of work through that well we
Had um you know obviously our coaching staff was very experienced they had won six championships with the bulls um one of our assistant coaches Tex winner always told us that you know if with all things being equal you play 20% of the time with the ball in your hand and the
Other 80% of the time without it in your hand right because only one player can have the ball at a time there’s five players on the court so the other 80% of the things that you’re doing are really more important than the 20% that one one
Player has that ball in his hand so we knew you know the triangle off offense uh basically is you got especially when you have two players like Kobe and Shaq you take them two bad [ __ ] put them over there and put them in a two-man game and what you you gonna
Blitz the pick and roll or you’re gonna or or you gonna you’re not gonna go under Kobe so they got their little thing going if you take away what they’re doing over there you got three dudes on the other side that are capable hitting the ball uh hitting shots when
They’re open that are that have high basketball IQ um and know exactly how to make whatever play needs to be made you know at that particular time so for us it wasn’t a matter of not letting them down it was easier for us because they they get double teamed and triple team
And teams are are game planning them as opposed to us so you know I miss enough like you know we have young players on our team now that that weren’t born when I was playing and they asked me about my game and I said they said you were a
Shooter huh I said no I wasn’t a shooter I just made timely shots and so playing with Kobe and Shaq and them getting the attention it’s like those dunks that you have on your shoe right they on your shoes they might cost $150 for a pair of
Shoes right so you got the soulle you got the the the upper of the shoe and what have you that’s Kobe and Shaq they they take the brunt of everything the rest of us were like the shoelace the shoelace holds that shoe together right so without the shoelace you don’t have
Any support so we were very good and and accepting of We’re the support players y’all score 65 to 75 points the the rest of us will score between the two of them the rest of us will score 30 points combined we’ll score a 100 and we’ll
Hold teams under 100 and that kind of was our recipe for in in the playoffs and so we were good with that and was there any like shock like that lob that he threw the shack was probably one of the most iconic like Kobe sha moments but Kobe you know you’ve probably seen
Kobe force a few gamewinners was there any shock within the the the team or any jokes that were said about like Kobe actually gave the ball up there to shock we joked about it afterwards but it wasn’t really a joke like when when it really came down to it like the media
Made more of the beef between the two of them and one one area that they were really professional about is that when it was time to play and and to to win a game they they gave it everything they had all the other you know beefs and
Grudges or anything else that might have been going on they they they put that to the side and they handled the business when it was time to handle the business now I wish that um it could have you know there was less beefing and stuff away from the court because I think if
That team wouldn’t have been broken up then there could have been more success and more championships behind it but um but I I I still think we maximized what we had and and nobody was really surprised when Kobe threw that pass to Shaq um it was the right play the right
Play to make and you know 10 times out of 10 in those situations they were going to make the right playh speaking of uh breaking up since that was the start of the um Lakers threee do you think if y’all would have lost that series to the Blazers y’all would have
Broke up the team some of us would have been would would have been gone for for sure I mean you know you going to keep Shaq and Kobe um obviously they were the they were the core of the team but then they would have you know immediately
Look to I mean I was at the you know towards the end of my career Ron Harper was toward you know he was older um Robert Ory as well um so you know some of the some of us uh peripheral players would have probably been somewhere else
And they would have tried to upgrade those positions um and even after that like Glenn rice was on that team he wasn’t on the team for the for the second Championship the next year you know so every year and and it’s hard for guys in today’s game to understand that
That team that you come into training camp with and that you go through the season with and if you’re fortunate enough to win a championship when it’s done it’s not going to be the exact same team that you come back with next year regardless because you’re going to have
Draft picks that are going to be on the team you gonna have other guys that sign free agency and go somewhere else so um and that was Phil Jackson’s first year um so you know like I said some of us would have been gone but the core group
Would have would have remained the same we wanted to take a brief break from the episode to let you know that prize pick has got you guys covered when it comes to helping you make some money during the NBA season that’s right baby prize pick is helping me cash in prize picks
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Use code podcast P for first deposit match up to $100 and you already know what time it is CH now back to the show continue on through the stories The Following Season y’all sweep basically the first three teams right y’all run through the Blazers y’all run through
The Kings y’all run through the Spurs 11 and0 now y’all facing a redot AI in the championship that Following Season what was that like going into that cuz y’all at a high y’all feeling good and then now y’all coming across AI what was that locker room like because I know Kobe
Wanted this matchup for sure and it was in his playing against a team you know where he grew up but we weren’t worried about Philly uh at all because we had gotten in such a Groove That season and in the playoffs when we went through those first three rounds we didn’t have
To call any plays or anything um the triangle is basically if the team it’s taking what the defense gives you when they took away certain things we just we just did our our our autos and and counters to what they took away um and
So we were we were in such a Groove I don’t know if any team would have you know we dropped that first game we I think we had 11 days off because we swept everybody the Eastern Conference was still playing so our biggest thing was how do we stay sharp during this
11-day layoff you know which is unheard of especially 11 days 11 days going into the finals going into the finals because we had to wait for the Eastern Conference I think Philly and uh Toronto I think it was that uh that went seven games or whatever um but even in in in
That situation um you know know they they had Iverson I think who was the MVP of the league that Year Aaron mcke was Sixth Man of the Year Matumbo was Defensive Player of the Year Larry Brown was coach of the year so that was Phil Jackson used that to kind of keep us
Grounded like you know this is gonna be tough because they got all the guys that won all the awards and this that and the other even though we knew that nobody couldn’t really [ __ ] with us and so Iverson came out hot in that first game I think he scored 48 that’s the game
That he stepped over tou tou hadn’t been in the rotation hadn’t been playing at all and I remember we were all dejected after the game because we wanted to go no team had gone through at that time you only had to win 15 games to to win
The championship in the playoffs no team had gone 15 and0 and so that was our motivation our goal we when we lost that first game I remember being in the shower after the game and tyo who had come in but for the first time and he
Really did a good job on Iverson during the time that he was in the game and he had his head down and I said man don’t have your head down I said do you realize how much money you just made for yourself and he said what you mean and I
Said you keep on making it hard for Iverson when you go out there and every team in on the Eastern Conference in the Eastern Conference is gonna want you right just to try to combat Iverson because his contract was up at at the end of that season and so um you know we
Lost that game and then uh you know it was it just broke the momentum of us you know sweeping that series as well like we did the other ones but you know we just said now we just got to end it in uh in Philly which we did and uh we did
I guess what you would call a reverse sweep rever after we lost that game right did it did something just feel different about that season like cuz I know y’all had just won the championship the previous year like and then y’all go on that stretch of 11-0 in the
Postseason at what point like during that season did y’all feel like oh okay we got another one in US I mean we we felt it we felt it after we won the first one um because the majority of that team was coming back I think we added uh for that second Championship we
Added Jr Ryder who wasn’t active during the during the playoffs we added um Horus Grant who had Championship experience with the bulls who was on our team in Orlando with Shaq and I when we got swept in the finals um so we added some some guys that that we felt you
Know even strengthened us even more and um so you know we like I said I I felt that if you know if it wasn’t for that the the fourth season after we you know we won three we could have won four in a row Shaq had to get toe surgery a lot of
Things happened you know that kind of that kind of broke everything up but um we were confident that we were the best team and we showed that throughout the season in each one of those Seasons yeah I got to ask one more follow up on that
I mean cuz we talked about Kobe and and Shaq and their relationship but as y’all winning did you feel that like that pulled them further or was winning the Championships was bringing them somewhat a little closer well you know like I said before there was a closeness
Between them when it got between the lines right but there was a competitiveness between them about who’s number one and yeah because because as as Petty as it sounds if the game GES were on NBC or ABC whatever whoever had the contract at that time if they said
Shaq and the Lakers vers Allen Iverson and the Philadelphia 76ers Kobe would get mad and if they said Kobe and the and the Lakers and it didn’t say Shaq then he would get mad but that was that was their competitiveness now I had been through that before in Orlando with
Penny and Shaq you know the same thing and Shaq is a big dude Shaq you know as a point guard um and everybody I would say with the exception of Kobe that played with Shaq deferred to Shaq it’s your team you the big fella he was going to have the
Biggest house he was going to have the most cars you know you wasn’t going to outdo him in in every area so most of us 99.9% of us were like all right big fella it’s yours you know and and and we fed into that Kobe wasn’t having that
Yeah you know so when he would come back uh after the season over and working hard all all off season to get in shape and Phil with tail Shack take this you you’ve been beat up the whole season long take this use next season to get yourself in shape for the when the
Playoffs come around and then Shaq would come in in training camp out of shape and Kobe would be like I work my ass off and your fat ass gonna come in training camp out of shape and overweight you know what have you and then that’s where that’s where it kind of start that’s
Where it would kind of start but they would say that and it would get out there but once the once the game started and we got between the lines they just handled their business hilarious um bringing up alen Iverson that year when he won the MVP can you describe to me
How was it having to guard Alan Iverson at his Peak yeah I can tell you it was damn near impossible and I say that because when I first came in the league and I think all the way up until 93 you you could hand check and then after that you couldn’t
Hand check anymore so I was 180 PBS when I first came in the league and there were strong ass guards like Alvin Robertson and Joe Dumars and Derek uh Harper that could put their hand around my waist and move me around right because they were that strong I was that
Skinny and you could hand check it was legal when Iverson came in the league the hand checking there was no hand checking anymore so if a guy caught the ball and he turned and he faced you couldn’t have your hands on him at all and with his quickness and his ball
Handling ability ability and be and the fact that he was always in attack mode like I said it was virtually impossible to he’s getting 30 shots yeah so it’s you know a lot of people don’t know I played half a season for the for the Sixers in 97 the year that Larry Brown
Moved Iverson from the one to the two and the reason why he did that Eric snow and I were the point guards on that team and the reason why he did that because he would dribble around for 20 seconds trying to get his shot off and then
Throw you a grenade the last two to 4 seconds because he couldn’t get his shot off so then you know Larry Brown was like you know what we going to take him off the ball and at least initiate the offense and start it over here and then
Bring it back to him you know and let him do his thing but yeah he was hard to guard did you ever get a piece of that crossover oh yeah you got that yeah okay I just want to know you got that no shame you
Know which means that I was out there on the court yeah yeah right right like where did the rule the hand check rule like who who in the league cuz I know like it’s got to be somebody in particular that they had to implement this rule I think it was more so that
The the game started slowing down it was more so probably when Pat Riley was coaching the Knicks and the style of play that they started to play I mean you know you had the bad boy Pistons in in the late 80s and the early 90s that
And big men that if you came down the lane they was going to put you on your back you know and you’ve seen some of the some of the fou and some of the uh uh physicality that went on and it was nothing like you could fight right and
Throw punches and not get thrown out of the game you know maybe just get a technical foul and so I think the league was just trying to get away from that level of physicality and they wanted the scores to start elevating you know Rising more than what they were because
You know at that time the games were you know you might win a game 9589 and people want action and they want to get up and down the three-point shot wasn’t as relevant then as it is now um so what that did is it allowed for players like him that were very
Skilled offensively and fast to be able to to it increased uh possessions in the game and uh and it increased scoring and that’s what the fans want to see you know and so it kind of opened it up for that to happen got it you played with Shaq twice throughout your career once
In Orlando as you mentioned uh and then when you came to LA with the Lakers from that 94 sha up until when you joined the Lakers uh what was the biggest difference you noticed in in Shaq’s Game and his Improvement he was more M more mature you know when uh he was always
Like a big kid but he was more mature by the time I got with him with the Lakers he started to feel more like you know people were going to look at him like he wasn’t living up to his billing because he hadn’t won anything yet and so he
Filled out he just had more experience under his belt by the time he got to the Lakers and imagine the Shaq that that you know from the Lakers who was probably that whole time when he was on the Lakers probably around the 300 lb Mark and bigger yeah
When he was in Orlando with us he was probably 275 280 flying and he was flying up and down the court and he was agile and he was active and he had as much Mobility as anybody and and and like you saw him acting you saw him rapping everything
But any if if you took a dude 510 and you put him on this table right here and you said and you called out some dances for him to do Shaq can do every dance as well or not better than somebody you know somebody a lot smaller and so he
Had he had that and just that type of energy um you know and what have you and so um definitely two different players but both of them were dominant M I want to talk about one of PG’s favorite players Mr Penny Hardway if Penny Hardway was injury free you know what
I’m saying didn’t get injured so much how you how legendary do you think his career would have been because of course you was there you know he was a special guy you got to see him up close he tell me a little bit about that yeah I I
Think Penny Hardaway would have been in the discussion especially if he would have had a long career let’s say somewhere that Spann around the time that Kobe’s did and how LeBron’s you know played 20 years now um if he could have played you know 15 to 18 years in
The NBA I think he’d be in the discussion about being the goat yeah he was that talented he was 68 he could post up he had he could shoot threes he could handle the ball he was one of the best passers that the league has ever
Seen um he had a super high basketball IQ and he had that same competitiveness and drive that you see that you’ve seen in Kobe that you see that you saw in in Shaq um you know and those guys he was just more quiet with it but definitely
Um I mean and anybody who played against him from Jordan to Kobe and any anybody else would tell you the same thing like he was coming and it was no accident that in his second year and Shaq’s third year we went to the finals um you know
Had the best record in the East and and got to the finals we were the last team to knock off Jordan you know one of his play teams you know and so that was a a super young team and it’s just unfortunate that that he had the injury
And it and and I think it never got it never got well enough because he came back he wanted to play so bad came back way too early and it never it never got right it’s also unfortunate that that the players of today like didn’t really
Get a chance to to really really see him because he was like I said he would be in the discussion as one of the best to ever do it in that Penny Hardway commercials with him no you know you know Lil Penny and they and they created
Lil Penny because he was so quiet you know that they they wanted something to kind of bring out his his personality and when I said that I saw Shaq and Kobe before Shaq and Kobe it was Shaq and Penny and I still remember Shaq’s Shaq
Was with Reebok and he was his it was like I think Reebok’s thing was it’s your world or whatever and Shaq was doing a commercial and he was sitting on the couch like that re commercial they had L Penny jump up on the couch and say
Hey Shaq can I be in your world and Shaq turned around and elbowed L Penny off the couch you remember that commercial remember that c and I remember when I saw that and I was like oh that ain’t cool you know like like did the commercial and it was funny you know
Whatever but but the two of them you know being teammates and that was Penny’s Penny’s thing you know that was like like I said what I saw with them later on down the line with with him and Kobe it was just that competitiveness Reebok Nike um you know is it penny in
The Orlando Magic playing whoever or playing Jordan and the Bulls or is it Shaq in the Orlando Magic CL you know so um it was just the whole thing reincarnated again when Kobe came through got it I can share one story about um Penny and and uh Kobe so I
Played against Kobe’s father in Italy okay and that’s when I first met him he was about 10 years old and I didn’t see him from that year that I played in Italy I didn’t see him again until he was a junior in high school wow his
Father brought him to the we were that’s the year we were in the finals against Houston and um his father brought Kobe Jelly Bean brought Kobe to the game and now I’m looking at him he’s 66 same height as me and he’s telling me man you
Know I’m thinking about coming out of uh coming straight into the NBA out of the 11th grade wow and so I hadn’t seen him you know followed him or whatever but I’m like man this dude crazy talking about he going to jump from the to the
NBA in 11th grade I remember now now he and he looked up to Penny yeah so the next year I see his press conference that he’s for going going to college and going to enter the draft at that time Magic Johnson used to have his Magic’s Midsummer Nights that
Little event out here in that L right right charity game and all of that right all the right Baron and took that over so all the guys you know and all the big stars would come out and play in that So Co Penny was playing in it and Magic
Put Kobe Kobe was just getting ready to come into the league put him on the other team so you know in the All-Star Game and you know in a charity game like that everybody just having a good time putting on the show for the fans Kobe
Was going at Penny’s rack yeah he took it serious yeah he took it serious and he was talking crazy and and so Penny was like you know kind of like damn okay so I remember he circled the uh he circled the uh calendar The Following season when he came back to training
Camp he was like I can’t wait till we play the till we play the Lakers I’mma go with that young boy yeah he tried to you know he tried to embarrass me at at Magic’s thing when we was all trying to take it easy cuz how how many years is
Penny was Penny older than coob at that time I think maybe three years three or years okay and so this had to be 90 I think Kobe was drafted in 96 so this was going into the 96 97 season it was that summer going into that okay and Penny I
Think Penny came in the league in 90 94 okay maybe yeah two or three years ahead this is prime Penny Prime Penny yeah and when we played him uh you know Kobe wasn’t playing so he didn’t get a chance to really to really go at him but it
Just it just was that was Kobe’s mentality whether we we were playing Jordan uh you know anybody else who who was supposed to be that guy he was going he was going to test you and try to get a piece of you yeah what was the conversations after that like pickup
Game when y’all see young Co like oh younger yeah oh [ __ ] yeah this young boy he coming like was that the conversation everybody knew he was coming out oh yeah because he he was imagine um imagine his confidence level the Lakers just traded they starting center to Charlotte CU
That you know that’s where he got drafted to Charlotte yep um traded vlot to get Kobe they had Eddie Jones who was really really good he was an Allstar you know and all of that and and then he wasn’t playing and so he was hungry he wanted to play anybody who would play
Him and even when when I got on the team with Kobe every year like I told you we added J.R Ryder and then the next year we we added Lindsey Hunter and and Mitch Richmond to that Laker team even later on when I started coaching and Ry our
Test came to the to the Lakers the first thing that Kobe would tell Phil is when we start scrimmaging put me on the other team because he he needed to establish the pecking order this is my [ __ ] and I’m G let you know that this is my [ __ ] so I remember Jr Ryder
Uh uh scored on Kobe and was talking [ __ ] one day in practice early in that season wrong thing so so Co said me and you after practice one-on-one and so Phil stopped practice and then we all just went and sat on the side and watched them and watched them two play
Play oneon-one and Kobe ab and Jr Ryder could hoop his ass up and kobe ate his ass up he chewed him up and so we was we was sitting on the sideline and uh Horus Grant I remember going be careful what you asked for and
He got so mad that he came over the sideline fist bald up all swo up he was like I’ll beat all y’all ass cuz he was so embarrassed you know but but that’s what Kobe did that with artz he did that with Mitch Richmond he did that with
Lindsy Hunter when he came um later Jim Jackson and Aaron mcke got uh they signed with the Lakers later on in their career um same thing he he was going to establish the pecking order this is my [ __ ] I’m the guy and you got to come through me hilarious I love that do
That’s what [ __ ] you would do p you so competitive I I yeah that’s different though that’s different I like in that story that the coach allowed that that’s kind of a a testament to what he was actually doing like you don’t hear many coaches like let that happen but you got
To think he was cut out for that having Jordan so he knew like that what that meant we Bill never like to have Team meetings and so we insisted one day we like you know what [ __ ] what you talking about cuz everybody was mad cuz early on
Co wouldn’t pass the ball so um Phil had no problem cussing Shaq out getting on Shaq’s ass but he would never say anything to Kobe early on so I remember so I have German Shepherds and um and they they they are protection trained and what have you and
My my dog trainer always said to me the first six to eight months that you had as puppy don’t ever tell it no because what we want to do is we want this dog to be so confident that he feels like he could do everything the discipline part can
Come later on you know once his confidence is at a certain point right so even he gonna chew up [ __ ] in your house in your yard or whatever you just got to you just got you just got to deal with it let your dog do what it so he
Feels like he’s the dude he’s the man so when I went when we had the team meeting and I remember asking Phil how come you don’t never say nothing to Shaq I mean you always say everything to Shaq you don’t say nothing to Kobe and he said because for this team we always
Need Kobe to be in attack mode and then that immediately made me think about what my dog trainer said about my German Shepherd need be in attack mode and so it was exactly what our team needed right Shaq came from a disciplinary his father was his stepfather was military right yes sir no
Sir and whatever you asked him to do and told him to do he was obedient Kobe was that German Shepherd puppy that nobody ever said no to right he had sisters he was the only boy yeah father played in the NBA um and and and he was the The
Golden Child right so and then Phil nurtured that confidence in him at the detriment now I wouldn’t say detriment but at the expense of us on the the rest of us on the team getting the brunt of him yelling and screaming and what have you but not
Saying a whole lot to Cobe and then but you see you see how yeah and we and we needed that and he was always in attack mode yeah that you just talk about Phil just knowing personalities and how to kind of Coach everybody differently like
Do you feel co uh Phil Jackson was the only man for that job between those two yeah yeah I mean I haven’t played I mean I play for you know different coaches I think uh one of the things I respect about papovich is it didn’t matter if
You like I saw him getting Tim Duncan’s ass uh uh uh Tony Parker job David Robinson like it was no hierarchy in terms of when it was time to coach you you gonna be coached and coaching is so much different now than it was then right because because players don’t want
To feel like they’re being shown up now but coaches didn’t you know it was times when players and coaches fought it was times when agents and GMS fought when they negotiating contracts you know and and so and and you got cussed out all the time and you know it was nothing
That was the way it was done we live in a different time now so so that don’t that doesn’t fly like it like it used to did did Phil ever hold any like you know I don’t know how it was cuz Kobe is pretty self motivated but did he ever
Like well Michael would do this like did he ever hold that over cold he never he never did that and he never answered the question who he thought was better yeah publicly yeah he he did say later on that he gave Michael the The Edge over Kobe only because Michael had bigger
Hands and he could Palm the ball off the dribble and and do stuff that Kobe couldn’t do but even when he said that then after that came came out Kobe you saw every time in the in the locker room Kobe had vice grips and he was strengthening his hands so that he could
Try to get to Point yeah like yeah I’m going strengthen my hands and then you all you saw him after after Phil said that was trying to get to the point where he could P the ball all right speaking of MJ you talked about y’all being one of
The the last teams to beat a Michael Jordan team in that 95 year yall went to the finals uh he came out of retirement That season um so what was that like the conversations knowing y’all playing against the Bulls MJ coming out of retirement y’all got Penny Shaq um and
This is the goat uh in MJ what was that conversation like when y’all was playing against so that year I mean we had we were uh the number one seed in the East so and he had missed most of that year you know he was still playing baseball
Hadn’t come back from from playing baseball or whatever yet and so um we felt with him or without him you know our record indicated we were exactly where we needed to be number one seed in the East going into the playoffs and um and so once we got to him you know
Obviously he came back and he started playing he was wearing number 45 so it kind of it wasn’t the same it wasn’t the samej and his timing was a little off he was a little more Rusty and I remember and a lot of people may not know this
But within that series I think after game two when we went to Chicago was maybe game two or game three we played the first two at home um Jordan changed his jersey back to number 23 because Nick Anderson after we had won uh game three or game four whichever game it was he
Said number 45 ain’t what number 23 used to be wow and then everybody was like wow you need to shut your ass up cuz you know cuz he he can I mean he he wasn’t far off you know and and so then when we got back to Chicago he came
Out in number 23 and I don’t even know if if you could really do that yeah change numbers you know uh you know cuz I know when you apply for a different number you got to do it like year before you know to be able to do that but he
Changed back to number 23 so we came out it was at first it was like oh [ __ ] that 23 just looked different like oh he Jordan again yeah that’s Jordan again what was the league like like when you like it it had to be a sigh of relief
When when I knew MJ was going to play baseball it had to been like all right this [ __ ] is wide open now yeah I mean I mean to the to to a degree I mean they were good teams the Knicks were you know the Knicks were still good um the
Pistons had uh Grant Hill you know at that time um the Pacers were uh going to the Eastern Conference Finals um we had just be we had just uh beaten them uh I think it was the year before to to go to the finals you know they had
Reggie Miller and uh Rick smithz and you know Mark Jackson all the guys that they had um so you know it was still competitive but yeah there was definitely a feeling that you know it’s anybody’s title to be you know to be taken now on the other side the team to
Deal with was the Rockets with Elijah Juan um which we had beat them twice during that year soundly handily and uh but midseason they made a trade and they ois Thorp and somebody for Clyde Drexler um so we went into that finals very very confident that we were going
To beat the beat the rockets and um and win that championship and uh you know it didn’t it didn’t end up happening that way um you know once we got there but but it definitely felt like uh I because the Rockets won back toback 94 95 yeah you
Know but on the Eastern Conference side with with Jordan out it definitely felt like you know it it was up for grabs yeah and then the following season they win 72 games as a team did you guys know you were facing kind of a a different
Animal and then looking at that 72 uh win bull season if you were going to stack that team up against those three Pete Lakers and let’s say the the warriors with KD where would you rank that Bulls team um across those three so the worst thing that we did after
Winning that series against them and that knocked them out was Horus Grant had a real good s real good series against them and we won that last game in Chicago and we hoisted hores gr up on on our shoulders and carried him off the court and Jordan saw that so that that
Was his motivation all through the out through the off season to get back to that point again I think they felt like they knew they were going to see us again cuz we were young MH and um so when it got to that next year the Eastern Conference Finals once again um
And it’s us us and the Bulls and I think this time they had home court they had Rodman uh you know they had added Rodman to their team um that year then uh we knew that it was going to be you know it we were facing a different Jordan he
Wasn’t Rusty um and and they end up sweeping us you know in in that Series so um yeah we definitely knew that we were gon to have our hands full and you know obviously they went on to win another three repeat um if I was to try to judge who I
Mean I I’ll tell you this the Warriors in that 73 win team that they had would be third out of those three uh because they didn’t they didn’t ended up winning right so yeah they had a great regular season but at the end of it if you don’t
Culminate that with a championship then and the other two teams that you’re mentioning in that same breath did then and then both of those other teams have uh three repated mhm um so the the Warriors would definitely be third and then you know it’s it’s hard to say
Because I feel like Jordan and Jordan and Kobe cancel each other out and they they still wouldn’t had anybody to deal with Shaq and then you know the role players for both teams were good you know so um that’s that’s one that we have to W wonder about but it’s it’s
Definitely the the the Lakers and the Bulls teams one one onea or however you want to look at it and then the the Warriors after that cuz the Warriors had nobody that could deal with Jordan and they had nobody that could deal with Shaq yeah you know but the game is
Obviously play differently they I think that teams now get away with shooting as many threes and stuff as they have now because there’s nobody in the league like Shaq probably Joel embiid is probably the closest closest to them um but they would have to as as much as
Many threes as they would be shooting we would just be throwing the ball inside the shack he would file everybody out you know and and there’s there’s no answer to that yeah this episode is brought to you by better help one relationship misconception is that it
Must be easy to be successful but the truth is successful relationship require effort from both parties it takes time patience and understanding to build a strong Foundation how did therapy contribute to the development of your current great relationship I think it’s pinpointing the good and the bad
Obviously working on the bad mhm and being mindful of the good um I think just getting that out talking through it um you know can help alleviate a lot of you know stress and pressure what about you D yeah I’d say just with therapy it helps you talk and and really it’s just
Learning how to communicate kind of you know hearing both sides and and being able to fight fair and just have a conversation and I I think that helps everything therapy is a safe space where individuals can address and overcome the challenges they face in their relationships with others it provides an
Opportunity to explore and work through issues in various relationships such as with friends colleagues at work romantic Partners or anyone else therapy helps learn coping skills set boundaries and become your best self it’s not just for those who have experience major trauma if you’re considering starting therapy try better help it’s entirely online
Designed to be convenient flexible and suited to your schedule become your own soulmate whether you’re looking for one or not visit better .cp podcast P today to get 10% off your first month that’s betterhelp hp.com podcast P well us being from La I know at the time this probably was
Amazing news for us but how devastating was it when Shaq decided to leave Orlando and come to the lake show baby huh so I was actually out fishing P Dallas y’all know I love to fish yeah so I was actually out fishing in Orlando with this this old man that I
Used to go fishing with and I hadn’t heard the news and um and so while we were out there fishing he said to me I think somebody called him or something and he said you’re about to find out how hot it really is cuz you lost your shade tree
And I you know yeah I know it’s crazy right old old country ass right shade yeah he said he said he said he said y’all just lost your shade tree so now you going to see how hot it is like okay what and and so he’s said yes
Uh they just said Shaq just signed with the Lakers so I’m like for real so I I I pull out my I think you know back then we had the motor roller flip phone or whatever calling around and lo and behold um Shaq was had signed with the Lakers so everybody was
Disappointed everybody was uh you know the the the magic to let somebody like Shaq get away at such a young age for nothing M got nothing in return for it I didn’t understand what that old man saying until the following season because our team was built around Shaq
Being double team right we had Nick Anderson we had uh uh Dennis Scott um Penny myself and then other three-point shooters that were um basically just played off them double teaming them we us swinging it around in a rotation and whoever was open knocking down threes
Now all of a sudden you you don’t have anybody in that low post getting double team the only one that could go get their own shot was Penny and then the rest of us were role player support players right that the the shoelaces the shoelaces and so so now Sho now you got
Shoelace and no shoe you know other other than penny so all those open shots that me and 3D and Nick Anders and those guys were used to getting disappeared they dried up so so now you know they pressing up on us and like I say penny
Was the only one that could really you know really go get his yeah so then I remember thinking back I was like okay now I understand what that old man was saying shade tree is [ __ ] right no sh now hilarious everybody got a tan That season locker room was quiet it was
Different and people was coming for us you know cuz y’all ain’t got the the advantage now they got that big [ __ ] out out here yeah loving the stories we want to move it along to back when you first got drafted in 88 to the Boston Celtics you played one season
Then went overseas and played in Italy to then come back to play two more seasons with the Celtics was that regular like to go overseas and play overseas was that that that was out of the norm back then yeah everybody said I was crazy uh for doing what I did but
What happened was the salary cap situations were a little bit different and the Boston Celtics even though I was a first round pick at that time it was only 25 teams in the league I was they were the 24th pick only 25 was it an odd
Number 25 teams in the league at that time so um they were the the most that I could make as a f or the the minimum that I can make as a first round pick was $150,000 in 1988 everybody else that was in my draft class went from the first picks uh Danny
Manning was a first pick who was making like a million something to everybody to to probably down to about 400,000 a year um I only can make 150,000 because the the Celtics were you know they were paying Larry Bird and Kevin mccale and Robert Parish and DJ
Danny a and so that’s all the money that was left so was no rookie scaling back there right so so so what I was uh well there it was it was still scaled but the cap was a little bit more firm in terms of what you could go over so that was
All that was left for me okay so instead of signing and getting locked into a four or five year deal at 150,000 a year I said I’m going to sign for one year and bet on myself and then I become a restricted free agent at the end of the
At the end of my first year now if I don’t end up playing and with you know what have you then I don’t have any leverage you know what happened now now I knew that Dennis Johnson was getting old and so I ended up starting I think
62 games my rookie year they didn’t draft uh another point guard going into that following year DJ got hurt uh I think ruptured is Achilles so I had all the leverage in the world well Boston came back and offered me a qualifying offer at 225,000 for the following
Seasons I think a four foure deal for for 225,000 a year which I was like I’m still going to be under everybody that was in my draft class even David Rivers who was drafted after me by the Lakers with the 25th pick so Danny Ferry had just gotten drafted by the Clippers
Didn’t want to come play for the Clippers so David faul who was his agent signed him to go play with his team in Italy ill mro MH at that time only the players who had ended their NBA careers at towards the end that wanted to make a little bit more money would be
Would go over to Europe and play or guys that just weren’t good enough for the NBA so at the time Bob McAdoo was the highest paid player over there making about 400,000 a year they gave Danny Ferry $2 million to play over there and they called and they offered me a million
Dollar to come play for one season and um so it ain’t hard to do the math [ __ ] I could pay four years 25,000 a year to make a million or you know close to it or whatever and then or play one year and make a million and look I wasn’t I
Grew up in Oakland on the west coast I wasn’t no Celtic fan so I was like [ __ ] the Celtics I’m gon get this million I’mma play 30 35 games maybe in in the year so sweer deal I gave them 48 hours to give me a better offer it was I’m
Dealing with red arback and Jan bulk um Jan vul was the general manager red arback was the president of Celtics they thought I was bullshitting 48 Hours came they didn’t make me a better offer the team from Italy faxed me a contract I signed the contract faxed it back the
News came out and then red arback called me and said what are you doing we’ll give you we’ll give you what you want uh tear up the contract I said it’s too late now I signed my contract I got to go yeah so that’s how I ended up over there there
Had a great year over there playing um and by the end of the season the team had told me that they were going to tear up my contract and pay me $3 million a year which nobody in the NBA at that time was even making two million a year
So I said [ __ ] okay I’mma stay over here and play some more who well the problem was halfway through the season Jan B flew from Boston to to Italy to Rome and we met in a limo and I signed the contract to go back to Boston it’s starting out at a million
One a year going forward and uh I I didn’t I had fired my agent so I’m I’m thinking I’m smart I can you know it looks like a standard contract and everything well it had one little clause in it that said that between the month of June 20th to July
20th I had to resend my contract with the Italian team and and honor the contract that I just signed signed in this limo with the with the Celtics so I didn’t see that Clause yeah so when the season ended and the Italian team offered me three times more money I
Wrote a letter to the Celtics and said uh when I signed this contract I didn’t have uh I wasn’t under the advisement advisement of a of a lawyer an agent and um I’m deciding to honor my second year to come back to Italy and play and then
They were like no you sign we got a contract with you they took me to court so it was the Boston Celtics the NBA the Commonwealth of Massachusetts vers Brian Shaw yeah which was a a big court case at the time and that’s ultimately what landed me back with the c with the
Celtics you had to been hot that’s crazy I was I was and I wasn’t I mean you know I because I ended up getting the money that I wanted yeah um which I should I felt like I should have been getting you know the whole time anyway um and I had
To take a lot of heat you know when I got back to Boston you know everybody was like you know calling me Benedict Arnold how the [ __ ] could you leave the the Celtics you know because of their story history and this that and the other but I learned real fast it’s a
Business right and I had to look out for my they would they didn’t give a [ __ ] about me when they paid me 150 which was underpaid and they only offered me a qualifying offer at 225 after that so this little this little [ __ ] from Oakland was like nah we ain’t the math
Ain’t math in so we going to do it this way and then uh and and so when I got back the whole first month and and statistically for me that was my best year in the NBA the year I came back from Italy and played with played for
Boston but the first month of the Season every every time I touched the ball at home in the Boston Garden I the fans booed me so you know I had to go through a whole lot of [ __ ] and then you know what kind of City Boston right is was
And so um yeah so I had to endure a lot but I wouldn’t take anything back you know I would do it all over again MH while you’re there in Boston you play alongside the bird uh Larry uh what was most memorable stories with Larry that
You can tell us about because we all know how notorious of a [ __ ] talker he was yeah that was that was it I mean how much shitty talked right because I thought when I first got there and having grown up on the West Coast and always pulled against the lake the
Celtics when they were playing against the Lakers you know during the showtime days um I was like man they letting this white boy who who can’t jump who’s not athletic killed him like that he ain’t that damn good until I got there yeah and I remember one of the first
Practices um he told me and Reggie Lewis he said I want to play you guys one on two up to up to seven right so like come on man he’s like the only catch is I get the ball first so me and Reggie look at each other we
Like yeah all right man whatever so the next thing you know it’s six nothing yeah right we ain’t even touched the ball yet he hits his first six shots yeah so when it got to be six nothing and we go to seven we like cuz it would
Be like one of us would guard him and the another one be be ready to try to get the rebound so we was like [ __ ] that we double teamed him he finally missed we got the ball and then we just kind of played keep away from him we end up
Coming back and winning seven to six so then I was like and that was of my early experiences with him I was like okay all right he he got a little bit more than what I what I thought he had then when we started playing he was cooking
Everybody but talking [ __ ] and telling them about it and Kevin mcel was a bad [ __ ] too and he used to talk a lot of [ __ ] so they would and and and I’ll share this quick story we were playing Utah and back then you score on a play you just keep running it again
Again until until they stop it so I would I would have to hit Reggie go through set a cross screen for Larry and Carl Malone was guarding Larry Larry was killing him Kevin mcale was locking Carl Malone up on the other end and Larry was talking about yeah we
Two bad white boys ain’t we so I remember going across setting the screen on Carl the first time Larry came off caught it scored as we were running back down the court Carl Malone said Young fella you set a screen on me again like that I’mma knock your head off your
Shoulders the whole time I’m running down Court I’m like damn is he really gonna do this [ __ ] and I know we about to run the play again right cuz we just scored on it so I hit Reggie again I go across to set the pick I’m standing in
The middle of the lane Larry cuts off and I see Carl RAR his forearm back like this and and I so I’m standing in standing in I’m like is this motherucker really going to try to do it and he came through and at the last second I jumped
Jumed out the way and I was like damn he really and he was going take it out on me cuz Larry was busting his ass you know busting his ass and talking [ __ ] but uh you know that that story and and and the last one that stuck out with me
As a rookie we were staying at the Howard Johnson’s motel by finway Park and Larry came and brought got all the rookies that were trying out for the team and took us to dinner and so we’re sitting at dinner we can’t Adit we can’t believe Like Larry Bird is actually
Taking us out and and we said hey you know where where is it that we can go out down here in Boston tonight he said go to the ram rod it’s a club right across the street from the um from the motel yeah so the name right there right
The ram rod I’m like that don’t sound right right little fishy so we get back you know we wait until it gets a little bit later and [ __ ] come out the motel and across the street is the club the ram rod so we come come out and look and
It’s a long ass line waiting to get in get get in so we walk across the street it’s dark out it’s all dudes in black leather and motorcycles and [ __ ] but all all not one single woman yeah so we like and the club is called the ram
Rodar so we was like oh okay he was trying to do us dirty so we got when we got to practice the next day to in training camp he just he was cracking up you know about that’s but that’s where he sent it so he had he had a great
Sense of humor he talked a lot of [ __ ] um but a great teammate to as a young player to come up and you know learn under and teach you the right way to do things and you know cuz you you played you you played in Indiana when he was a
President there you know what kind of dude he was yeah yeah no he was definitely a prankster he was uh you know I had stories with him where you know I had some some stuff that went on in in in my early career with you know I
Had this catfish situation and uh he text me the picture that got leaked uh and it it was just funny him being you know the president and the relationship that we had uh but that was him man he was just a prankster and and you know he
Would have his days I will say that some days you know not to [ __ ] with Larry uh but then you know for the most part he was you know he he was pretty cool and chill we’ve heard the rumors that Larry would actually be offended if another
White guy would would be guarding him was that true and do you have any stories of of him kind of complaining about that yeah that’s definitely true um he definitely took it as an insult if you put a white dude on him and one example that I can remember we were
Playing Phoenix Suns I think cotton Fitz Simmons was their head coach and they had a pretty good player white dude named Tom Chambers that could I don’t know if you guys remember him jumping over Mark Jackson when he when he dunked the ball and Tom Chambers was gardening
And Larry caught the ball in front of they in front of their bench and like just turned around and just had a full-on conversation with cotton Fitz Simmons and the and their coaching staff y’all really going to try to disrespect me like this y’all goingon to put this
White dude on me think that he could guard me and then just turned around and just shot a jumper her in his face and just went down Court you know shaking his head but like stuff like that was just it was just common place you know but he definitely definitely felt
Insulted um if you tried to put a white dude on that’s funny I want to uh take you to your coaching years back in 2007 where your boy Kobe Bryan publicly went on and said he wanted to get traded from the Lakers and considering at this time
You’ve been knowing this man for many years I want to know did you ever have a conversation with him about his future because we had our boy Jerry Weston right there he said Kobe called him on his phone and was like Hey I want to be
Traded to the Grizzlies man give me a little little insight on that yeah I mean I you know in terms of the business side of it and all of that I don’t know all of that but um he was serious and his his I mean it was all part of his
Tactics in terms of you know the team wasn’t very good at that time right we had um smush Parker was I think our starting point guard and kwami brown I think was our starting center um they had traded Shaq so you know we had you
Know the team was I don’t even think the team was a player off team that year so Kobe was trying to put pressure on the Lakers to fortify the r the roster or he was going to uh invoke his free agency and test the market and probably also
Reminded them that when Shaq was a young player how Orlando let him get away for nothing and he had the ability to walk without the Lakers getting any kind of conversation or anything with him so uh Lo and be hold by the end of that season um or before the trade dead line
Deadline That season I think we traded javar kitton kwami Brown and we had the rights to Mark Gasol who was still playing uh over in Spain we had drafted him with the second round in the second round that year we traded those three to to uh to the
Grizzlies Memphis for p gas saw you know went from the terrible team in 2007 to 2008 going to the finals and and losing to the we lost to the Celtics in the in the finals that year you brought up the trade bringing pal in was there any
Other superstars that was on the table that y’all was looking at besides pal or was pal the initial Target that Kobe wanted yeah I think that I think that Kevin Garnett was free and um or you know wanted to get out of Minnesota that time and so
Everybody was hoping cuz at that time uh I think Kobe no Kobe had already switched over to Nike but Kevin Garnett was an Adidas guy Kobe had started out being Adidas so we thought that there was gonna be a chance that kg would want to come and uh and play with Kobe which
You know that if that would have happened and then we already had gone through some stuff with uh I don’t know if that was before or after you know we we had traded for Chris Paul and then David Stern stepped in and said said no that ain’t happening yeah but uh we
Thought for sure we were going to have a chance I think that’s out of off top of my head that’s the only one that I could really remember that we thought we might have a chance to get that didn’t happen I think kg end up going to he end up
Going to Boston and so um we ended up with pow which worked out great they beat us in ‘ 08 we won the championship in 2009 and 2010 and 2010 we were able to get revenge against the loss Avenge the loss of uh you know from 2008 yeah
What how did Stern veto that trade what what part of that trade stern was a gangster yeah no I know that but cuz the trade where we all thought even as a kid like me knowing like okay Chris Paul about to go to the Lakers right and
Then I find out later like no yeah because it happened and then it didn’t so what like Stern just was like n this ain’t so what helped him make that not happen was at the time New Orleans owners they were selling the team or whatever so the team was actually being
Controlled by the NBA got it um because the sale hadn’t the sale hadn’t gone through or whatever and so you know they were there all the other teams were complaining about how the small Market teams never have a chance because these larger markets always can can afford to
Pay the stars and they can and so they always end up losing the uh the players so when that trade happened because I remember somehow Lamar was going to end up in Dallas and and uh he was going to be part of the trade and then he he was
Like I’m not going to Dallas you know and what have you but then Stern came in and said he vetoed the trade so it’s a three- team trade yeah it was a three- team trade and I don’t even remember who we were going to get uh I think we were gonna get David
West and because at the time he was playing in New Orleans uh and I can’t remember who else but um but yeah the trade trade never happened um like I said he he it happened but then he vetoed it he veto it um and I think he
Was able to do it because during that time he was the the league was controlling the New Orleans uh franchise until they made the trade I mean until they made the sale yeah damn that that yeah Kobe possibly could have been with kg could have been with CP that
Would have been scary he still he still ends up with five championships that’s crazy how much he would have here boy the 10 11 [ __ ] I want to talk about when you uh left the Lakers and you became the assistant coach with young big nose PG over there when he was
Young with the little hairline I want to know what moment out of them two seasons with him stick with you about coaching PG I knew one thing I knew he had grew up in the LA area um and um that he was very talented um I didn’t know you know I
Didn’t know much much else about him I knew he had gone to where did you where did you commit to First Pepperdine pepperine and then Santa CL first then pepperine and and then end up at Fresno so I knew a little bit about him not a
Whole lot um and then when I got to Indiana and I actually you know started working with him um I was like damn this dude is damn near 669 6869 and I’m not just saying that because we hear but I think that what separates MJ and what separates Kobe from all the other
Their their contemporaries and counterparts is that obviously the god-given talent their work ethic and drive and all of that but they were fundamentally sound also right so you had guys like Vince Carter Tracy McGrady and what have you other guys that were really really good but they weren’t as
Fundamentally sound in terms of the footwork stuff that they had that that Kobe and Michael had right right so when I got to Indiana um PG asked me a lot of questions about Kobe um what was his work ethic like you know what did he do you know this that
And the other and we talked about the area on the floor of the pinch post and like this is the kill spot because it’s hard for people to come double team you from this spot and so and you can also you’re you’re within passing distance of
Your other four teammates you can get to the basket in one dribble it’s within your shooting range um you know so all these things that that you know and I shared stories with him about how Kobe used to practice his moves five or 10 minutes without a ball just visualizing
What the defense was going to do then with the ball um just just doing the different pivots and then start shooting he would do that you know pretty much every day before practice and so when when I first got there with P some mornings we would come in and we
Would do stuff and then some mornings you know he was hanging hanging out or whatever and wouldn’t come or would be late or whatever and then I’d be like well I’m going to tell you one thing about Kobe he didn’t never shortcut anything right so when it was time to
Work like he he had this mentality this is his job and so he’s gon to put his time in at his job that has to be first priority above everything else um he he then he took to that cuz he obviously he really looked up to Kobe started to do
It started to put in the work quickly elevated his level of play um and as I got closer with him and started finding out what some of his interests were fishing was one of them so really Bundy right and I lived on the lake right they all lived downtown at that
Time I believe and so so one time his father was out visiting he came they came over um I had a little Pontoon boat we went went out on the boat we fished and so I was like okay I know two things that I can get his attention about
Fishing and anything Kobe related and so as that season went on I noticed that he he got a lot of shots blocked when he would go to the basket right like he he he didn’t have a mentality at that time of of finishing throwing a ball down he
Was going to the basket thinking about laying it up and then I remember pulling him aside one day and I said I said hey man you damn near 68 you you’re athletic um you know long you got to your mentality got to change when you get in the lane stop ducking and avoiding
Contact and start going up and dunking on them right this picture right here and I said it before you got here when I looked up that was his coming of age as a man in the NBA his we playing we playing we playing the Heat
LeBron and he went down the lane and he went up and that was the first time that I seen him that I saw him like you know Reckless abandoned I’m dunking on whoever whoever is coming you see Birdman tried to come over and and got out of the way and when that happened
That’s to me that’s when he became a man in the NBA on that play that’s in that picture come on and and I and I talked about it before as well they called a timeout right after that and so he was walking to the bench and LeBron was walking to their bench and
LeBron said something to him P walked over and then LeBron dapped him and then that was to me like his like okay now you’re in this Echelon of of of being an NBA an NBA like picture more now cuz it got more meaning for that’s that’s what
It was I said I said that before you sat yeah he literally he he literally kept telling me cuz I was getting it blocked by dwade Bri was blocking my [ __ ] like so he like you damn near 69ine like stop being small so the next opportunity I
Had I’m I’m I got to go finish this [ __ ] and then really that whole series everything I tried to dunk everything that I could awesome too and uh yeah from that point on it kind of changed how I attacked the room what did you get you got most improved player was it that
Year or the next year that that was that was our first Miami yeah was that year that was my third year yeah so he got most improved player in the NBA that year and um just if y’all could if y’all could pull up some footage of when he
Was up on stage getting his uh trophy for most improved player pull it up pull it up tell us toar one no no it was red was all black me you Jackie we could all fit in that suit and it was about it was about this much too long
Please got to find it oh God y’all got to find it who was your tayor I have one I was in Indie sh nothing like yeah this look right it’s bigger it’s bigger than Steve Harvey yeah yeah you got to see how long the pants were and everything that’s
Funny trying to be professional came out there looking goofy that’s hilarious was nasty I am not going to lie the bottom of my uh the bottom of the pants was ripping cuz the pants was was dragging on the ground they probably was getting caught around his shoe and
Everything uh I will say though that like I think having you there at that point in my career really changed cuz you know that Kobe was my guy so to have someone that you know have seen that side of coob and could Shar you know what he went through how he prepared
Like that went a long ways for me um because at that point in time like Danny was my my vet and Danny did things a little different you know Danny was you know a great mentor for me but I think where I was trying to get to um was a
Little bit different of how Danny approached it so for and I remember I shared this story you remember we played Golden State and I went scoreless and we had that plane ride back and you would I had a conversation with you on that flight I don’t know if you
Remember that’s where it kind of started where you told me I need to have a routine oh yeah uh and Kobe would do this and Kobe would do that and we played them that night in Golden State and flew back to Indie and I remember we
Got in maybe I don’t know 5 4 5 6 in the morning something like that I went straight to the gym and just put up hella shots and that kind of changed how I prepared uh going into games and in that season and that’s what and that’s
What a coach is supposed to do right like you everybody has different ways of retaining information different ways of learning and I think a coach being a coach being a parent being a teacher kind of all goes together all your kids are going to be different you know and
What have you and so you got to tap into okay he might be a visual learner he might be a auditory learner you got to hear it or he gota he’s a kinesthetic learner he got to put his body through it in order to uh in order to be able to
Get it right Tex winner used to always say seven repetition it takes seven seven repetitions of anything for your muscle memory to kick in right and so just in knowing that like I said fishing uh how he he admired Kobe I knew I could grab his attention during that but he he
Put in the work you know once once uh you know he established that this is my priority this is how I can make a living and provide for my family and do you know do all the things that all of us wanted to do he tapped in he did the
Work you know and so that’s the satisfaction that I get out of being a coach [ __ ] I love playing a lot better because when you played you could you could actually do something about it right you can make a basket or you could shut somebody down you know whatever you
Just try to prepare your team as a coach and hope that they can go out and and execute um and not to not to mention you put in a lot more work as a coach and get a lot less money exactly that is true before we wrap on
Story mode we got to ask about the latr spr well PJ Caris s altercation I had no idea that you was on that team you was back playing home your hometown y um on the Warriors at the time what led to the the the the choke code free well put on
Caris and was there a buildup that y’all saw like it’s it’s bubbling over it’s bound to happen yeah so nobody really uh talked about it because because they actually the law enforcement put a gag order on us the the judge put a gag order on the whole team to not talk
About about the incident but yeah there was a buildup basically spr I mean uh PJ who’s a great guy you know off the court and what have you do any for you to give you the shirt off his back um was a different animal when it when it when he
Was coaching right so he referred to everybody as [ __ ] this [ __ ] that and I had just got traded to the Warriors from Orlando so when I first got there and he was addressing everybody and talking to everybody like that I was like damn you know is dude always like this so spree
Was an Allstar you know had represented the Warriors PJ had just come over from coaching Portland and prior to that he was the head coach at seat and hall right so college coaches completely different animal than NBA right and so he brought some of that college [ __ ] to
The NBA which don’t fly so he had he had some I think personal issues with spr well because spr well wore the the cornwells French braids spre well didn’t adhere to the dress code um and he and and now he worked and he was good and so
There nothing that you could say about you know his work ethic and everything else but when we got on the plane or on the bus to go wherever he wore what he wanted to wore usually sweats and some slides and he would have his headphones on listening to his music and that
Bugged PJ so he’d be you know back then we had a dress code so spree well smart he said look PJ would always say something to him about what he had on about his way his hair was uh braided so spr well one time took off
His uh headphones and he said we were on the plane and he said listen man I talk to my agent um y’all can find me $500 if I don’t adhere to the dress code we got 41 uh away games so take 500times 41 that’s 20,000 whatever you know
$100 and 20,000 and take that [ __ ] out my check and leave me the [ __ ] alone I’mma dress how I want to dress put his headphones back on and then start listening to yeah he used to listen to wuang all the time right and he always say don’t [ __ ] you don’t want to [ __ ]
With a soldier and and so so we’re in practice one day me bimbo Co and I mean me Mugsy boges and and uh and spre are shooting at a basket PJ comes in uh we’re just doing three-man shooting and he’s and he just comes down
He was like you got to give me more than that to spree and spree was a worker so he didn’t say nothing he kept shooting PJ went away he came back a couple minutes later he’s like if that’s all you going to give me get the [ __ ] out of
My gym so spree said he said look man you say one more thing to me I’mma [ __ ] you up so everybody kind of was like you know everybody was at different different baskets so he came back and said something again and that time when he came back spree just took the ball he
Just dropped it he just walked over to to PJ grabbed him around the neck so to be honest the other players because of how PJ used to talk to him was like you [ __ ] it go ahead the [ __ ] out his ass right and the assistant coaches and
Everybody they all ran over trying to get spree off of him and he was like a crazed animal at that time so he never let go of PJ’s neck he was kicking the assistants that was trying to get him loose they finally PRI him loose and uh
And so the security came in and they they kicked him out so we met as a team now this is in 90 97 and I’m one of the older guys on the team even at that time me uh Mugsy boges and so the PJ Gary St Jane who St jeene
Who was R GM they meet they say listen this happened in house we gonna keep it in house don’t nobody say anything to anybody what do you guys think is an appropriate uh punishment for him right so we we met we said 10 game suspension um and he got to
Go to some anger management classes so everybody agreed okay cool that’s what that’s what it’ll be that was gonna cost him a million dollars so I live in Oakland so practice ended we not supposed to say nothing to anybody by the time I get home 10 minutes from the from uh practice
Facility I turn on the TV all they got pictures of PJ’s neck with the fingerprint the uh fingernail marks in his neck and everything and they the Warriors got to put their spin on what happened but then we got a gag order that we couldn’t talk about so what
Happened was they ended up suspending spree for the rest of the season he had the uh the shoe contract with Converse at the time uh so all the endorsements he had they dropped him they kind of painted him as the villain and like we don’t we didn’t condone what he did but
It’s two sides to every story so we DEC decided as a team we going to go when he he had a press conference we going to stand up behind the stage and and and and support of our teammate well we also told all the guys the young guys look
For y’all that don’t have a lot of skin in the game you might not want to get up here on the stage because it’s going to be the beginning of the end for us but we just want to make it clear that we are here to support him we don’t condone
What he did and and he’s going to apologize for it and we standing here behind him me B boo Co Joe Smith uh uh Felton Spencer Robert Ory who was playing for Houston we were playing getting ready to play them and him and spree went to Alabama together so he
Even came and still behind there with us um and it was maybe one or two other guys and Dwayne Fel so we stand up behind him spree apologizes and what have you about two weeks later uh I’m in the hotel get a knock on the door is PJ
Carisimo uh we we’re in Portland you and Joe Smith just got traded to to Philadelphia Jim and Clarence weather spoon and then everybody who stood behind all tra traded or Simpkins got cut yeah we I see him I’m flying to Portland I see him at the airport I’m
Like me and Joe Smith at the airport I’m like man what you doing here you got traded too he was like no they cut me but um yeah that’s that’s that’s exactly how it went down and it was a buildup it was frustration because the team was losing PJ was hard on everybody
Like I told you earlier how the coaches used to deal with players and spree wasn’t having it and so y’all had his back though he better get y’all some spre well room for free for real [ __ ] hey B we want to thank you man it’s a wrap for the
Episode we appreciate your time and the story modes that you have for us today it’s a WP podcast congratulate you though P oh what yeah the lead yeah yeah congratulations fashion when when it happened I was over there arguing with the refs so cuz I be on his
Ass about about about uh I’m like look man I ain’t never in my in the 36 years I’ve been involved in the NBA seeing a referee say you know what rewind the clock three minutes and uh let’s take that foul let’s call that foul that we
Missed on him or whatever and so he he end up losing three or four possession cuz he he’s so mad at the referees and like he said he as they congratulate me I’m here he still ain’t done he still ain’t done something that I did what who
The first dude in the NBA to ever hit 10 three-pointers in the NBA game 10 three-pointers Stephen Curry almost did it the other day sh had he hit 11 the other day but who the first one to hit 10 yeah you said that you was the first to do it come on put
Something he was the first he did say that that’s a WAP you guys tune in we’ll be back next Monday on podcast P
38 Comments
fire episode as always P. love the insight with young players currently in the league but also the perspective from older players too. that's why this podcast is the best basketball podcast
Listening to the Kobe stories and all the talk from all the youngsters about Mamba mentality, don't you think he would have been ashamed of the All-Star game this year?
39:54 every body remember dat big Oakland cuzzo
Nowadays Ramrod nias a jus stay
Oaktown Spree aint no joke
Speedwell outta b n da HOF
P.J. switched on Spree cuz Greg Papa asked him did he cut himself shaving
1:26:15 dats real brotherhood!! Not fighting over no freaks or nothing like dat. Now dats Real Town Bizz n B Shaw reppin it ta da fullest!❤
I think Jeanie Buss told the story regarding the CP3 trade. To think it happened the way it happened was shocking..
Dis my 1st time watching P show but it's kool especially having Oaktown Bizz on da show North East West Oakland
B Shaw is 57! Geez time is flying
You guys should bring out Sam Cassell..love these player coaches stories
Much respect to B Shaw. I remember going to his camp back in 2000 at Merrit College in the Town and GP was there
Playing with Larry Bird… beating MJ in the playoffs with Shaq and Penny… the Sprewell choke… 3-peating with Shaq and Kobe… coaching against the Heatles – Brian Shaw is like the Forrest Gump of the NBA – present for all these iconic moments.
Shaq to this day said he was so young and immature. Looking back, he said he should've stayed in Orlando.
This is an amazing episode – I knew B. Shaw as a fantastic role player. His experience playing with Bird, Kobe, Shaq, and Penny and competing against the legends of the 90’s-00’s should land him a 2nd chance as a head coach in the NBA.
Nice thorough interview Mr. Shaw called it down the line 🫡.
“Thats some shit you would do P” no its not the meat riding the 2 host be doing on this show is crazy lmao
Y’all gotta bring B.Shaw back on
When he coached the nuggets it wasn’t the most fun time as a fan but it was still an enjoyable journey
Dallas got that fit on 👀👀👀
The phil jackson coaching kobe story is interesting…i think Phil already saw aspects of jordan in kobe…you don't have to fuss at a player like jordan or kobe because they are their biggest critics…if they fxck up, no one is going to hold them more accountable than themselves…
Half way through and I wish I could like this interview 1000 times. Great questions, great answers and great stories. Shout out to BShaw and shout out to the whole crew to me yall been getting better and better every episode .
Brian Shaw had an incredible career. Larry Legend, getting to play overseas, shaq and penny, shaq and Kobe, spree. What a fun ride
Fire episode crazy how the lakers trade Marc gasol for his brother and he went on to Memphis and became a dog they should have started him the whole time but Kobe went on to back to back
1:13:00 . PG needs to get that mentality back, because he hasn't been playing like he's 6'9. Way too much shot chucking.
I like that story about him putting business over basketball and knowing his value that early. They should have dug into that a little more. Who does that and also fires their agent in that time between to represent themselves
Clippers really don’t know how good they have with t lu and b Shaw
I am so sick of this hand check nonsense. How the f did a question about guarding AI turn into just another Old Head blathering on about how all of basketball was decided by the ability to touch a guy with one hand. Why is this suddenly the most important rule in the history of professional sports?
ENOUGH ALREADY.
Interview Danny Granger!
I wish they talked more about the pick up game between kobe and penny, who ended up winning? was kobe dominating penny?
I know for damn sure hand checking was legal in the 90’s trynna dumb down how Chuck was killing yall from 96 until lol
🔥 🔥
So the guy doing the channel is an illiterate😂😂
Sooo Shaq been a hater😮
Rodman would've figured out how to deal with Shaq
such a great episode. love how none of hosts are talking over each other or the guest. excellent!
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