Dr. David Spiegel is Willson Professor and Associate Chair of Psychiatry & Behavioral Sciences, Director of the Center on Stress and Health, and Medical Director of the Center for Integrative Medicine at Stanford University School of Medicine. He has more than 40 years of clinical and research experience studying psycho-oncology, stress and health, pain control, psychoneuroendocrinology, sleep and hypnosis. He has published 13 books, 404 scientific journal articles, and 170 book chapters on hypnosis, psychosocial oncology, stress physiology, trauma, and psychotherapy.
Dr. David Spiegel is an Psychiatrist and the Wilson Professor and Associate Chair of Psychiatry at Stanford University School of Medicine, where he is known for his research into psycho-oncology; the neurobiology of therapeutic hypnosis and the role of the mind-brain-body connection in cancer outcomes and management among other topics. He directs the Stanford Center on Stress and Health and is a recognized authority on hypnosis’s clinical utility and neuroscience.
A true expert and trendsetter in the field of hypnosis Dr. Spiegel has appeared on the Andrew Huberman podcast, and he joins #OntheMark to dive into the topic of hypnotherapy and hypnosis for health, well-being, and for increased and improved focus and performance on the golf course.
Dr. Spiegel answers the following questions:
What is Hypnosis and how does it work? What does Hypnosis do the the Brain? What is is like to be hypnotized? He explains the different parts of the human brain and how they work, and perhaps don’t work, together, and he elaborates on the three things that happen to the brain while in a state of hypnosis. By way of explanation he also talks about brain activity in stages of stress and relaxation, in panic and in calm.
Dr. Spiegel then talks about his work with competitive athletes and illustrates how hypnosis has allowed them to perform at the best in high pressure situations. He and Mark Immelman also discuss the mental state Tiger Woods gets into during competition. To that Dr. Spiegel illustrates how athletes and people can perform self-hypnosis, through the Reveri App for peak mental and physical performance.
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ABOUT ON THE MARK: Mark’s knowledge, insight and experience have made him a sought-after mind on the PGA and European tours. Through his career, he has taught and/or consulted to various Major Champions, PGA Tour winners and global Tour professionals such as: Larry Mize, Loren Roberts, Louis Oosthuizen, Patton Kizzire, Trevor Immelman, Charl Schwartzel, Scott Brown, Andrew Georgiou and Rourke can der Spuy. His golf teaching experience and anecdotal storytelling broadcasting style makes him a popular host for golf outings.
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You know fans of the on theark podcast I adopt a very holistic approach to the Improvement of golf and when Dr Spiegel and his crew reached out to me I was like we have never done this before so with that being said Dr Spiegel Dr David
Spiegel if I may um welcome to the on the mark podcast how are you doing thank you very much Mark I’m I’m doing fine okay thanks for having me my pleasure truly my pleasure okay your list of achievements and accolades and stuff are lengthy and if I had to read
All of them out um we’d take up about 20 minutes so I’m just going to tee you off with folks to say that you’re a professor and the chair of Psychiatry and Behavioral Science the Wilson associate chair at B yes um you’re at Stanford University you’ve written count books uh Journal entries everything
About you know well-being and obviously hypnosis so with that little introduction would you please tell the people about yourself sure um well I’m very glad to be here with you uh I have been for the last half a century doing research and clinical work on the phenomenon of hypnosis and related
Mindbody issues stress and health I run a center on stress and health at Stanford I’m a practicing psychiatrist um and uh as well as a researcher and have used hypnosis with uh about 7,000 uh patients and clinical research subjects in my career so I know a fair
Amount about hypnosis what it does we’ve studied it in the brain what it does in the brain when you go into a hypnotic State and so we understand a lot more about how it works and we know a lot more that it works and so what I am
Trying to do in in building this uh revery app which is a digital interactive self hypnosis app is make that available to everyone because Mark I I have been deeply more and more frustrated in the course of my career at how such a useful natural phenomenon is underutilized and disrespected and I
Want to change that I want people to use it to to play better to live better to sleep better to work better um and it is a valuable tool and if you consider the fact you know athlet golf is not an injury-prone sport but um athletes um
Get injured all the time and we have lost in the United States 88,000 people last year to opioid overdoses alone the CDC is expecting 111,000 this year hypnosis is a very effective pain reliever it is very effective for managing stress and we have not succeeded in killing anyone yet using
Hypnosis so um it’s an undervalued commodity that really deserves more attention and that’s why I have built an app with my colleagues at rivy to so that people can have me sitting on their shoulder in their smartphone um helping them better control body in mind well if folks are interested we’ll talk about
The app in just a little while sure I watched a YouTube post of Dr Spiegel um hypnotizing Andrew huberman who a lot of know and and I was fascinated so I guess I’ll kick it off with this um you know I was always when I would see hypnosis on
Television I’d be like oh wow cool and then I’d be like shuck I don’t know if I want to go into this altered state for for for lack of a better descriptor but then I thought about it more and I was like but wait a second you know if I
Have a few glasses of wine or if I take medication or whatever the case might be Altered States are happening inside where so so I want you to describe the mechanics what is hypnosis indeed for folks please sure um and you’re absolutely right we all seek Altered
States and enter them from time to time hypnosis is a state of Highly focused attention it’s like getting so have you ever gotten so caught up in a good movie that you kind of forgot you were watching the movie and entered the imagin world you know later on you may
Think about say well you know this didn’t quite make sense and so but at the time you’re just in it hypnosis has been called believe in imagination and people who get you ever get lost in a sunset you know just get surrounded by the beauty of it and and lose awareness
Of everything else that’s a hypnotic State and people um who are more highly hypnotizable have more experiences like that so it’s highly focused attention it’s like looking through the telephoto lens of a camera which you see you see with great detail but you’re less aware of the surroundings now in order to do
That to focus that intently which good golfers have to do um you need to be able to put aside things that normally might distract you and as a simple example Mark right now you’re having Sensations in your body touching the chair you’re sitting in but hopefully
You were not even aware of them until I mentioned it if you were we could stop the interview right now um so our brains are very good is that am I right about that you just yeah absolutely the sensations there but you weren’t feeling it it’s it’s it’s automatic you know and
And it’s funny you talk about this because my goal for this year was to be more present you know because there’s always something to achieve and something to get to in a list and all of a sudden I find myself at Day end having blown through everything and not
Everything got my my myopic view of the of the circumstance and honestly got the attention it deserved that’s that’s exactly right and so we can be jumping from thing to thing and never fully present in any one of them and hypnosis it’s a little bit like flow states where
You’re just in it you know you’re just totally engaged and absorbed in it it tends to be very pleasurable it’s it’s self-reinforcing because you feel better when you’re fully connected with your body and fully focused on doing one thing that has meaning for you so we’ve got absorption and hypnosis we’ve got
Dissociation putting outside of conscious awareness things that would ordinarily be in Consciousness in order to be so absorbed the third part is the thing that scares people the most and the thing that needs to be debunked the you know the suggestibility thing you know that dangle to watch and you’ll do
Anything I want or in that terrible movie get out you know she clinks on the teacup and the guy’s head Falls and all that all hypnosis is really self- hypnosis and what suggest ability is is really cognitive flexibility so when if you’ve been to you know one of these awful hypnosis
Stage shows and you’ve seen the football coach dancing like a ballerina making a fool of himself there is an embedded message there and the message is not that this guy on the stage can make anybody do anything they want because they can’t but it is that you can try
Out being different so pair that image of the the football coach dancing like a ballerina with the idea that in hypnosis you can try out being a different person and see what it feels like so rather than having to talk yourself into it or understand why you got there just try it
Out see what it feels like and and that can be true for your concentration in golf too that you can you know you’re sort of anxious and you’re always worried about the guy behind you and what your score is going to be that’s a good way to sabotage
Yourself but if you can say I’m going to try being like tiger you know who in the the most ungodly pressure can just walk onto the stage with onto the the green with this half smile on his face and calmly walk up and make this amazing
Shot and so his capacity to be in for what he wants to be in for and out for everything else is part of his training and self- hypnosis it’s it’s your way of making a choice about what you want to focus on and becoming the kind of person
Who can do that it’s you know you stimulate so many things in my mind when you share that anecdote and I want to talk about tiger because I’ve had the luxury of announcing him calling him watching him from the front row seat in the midst of his um golf tournaments um but first
Off as you share all that I think of the word control you know because a lot of us maybe it’s ego driven whatever the case might be but we get the sense that hold on I’ve got to give up control but everybody watching this or listening to
This wants to be a better golfer by definition a different golfer and what you say there is so appropriate because to take that next step you got to leave the other behind it’s it’s like leaving first base to steal second and this is true true I mean my my L an my Layman’s
That’s good that’s a good one yeah and what you say is right because people want to get better that means you’re going to do something and everyone’s making it physical and I’m in control where yet it’s just going to the the supercomputer the the the control center of it
All absolutely right control begins at home it begins inside you and this little three-b organ we have sitting on our shoulders is our major evolutionary Advantage you know other than the opposing thumb it’s what allowed us to survive take over and desecrate the planet and it’s um to the extent that
You can focus on what your goal really is put out put aside distractions and try out what it would be like to be the kind of person who can do that and you look at Tiger he’s not he’s not losing control he’s in control and it’s a
Matter of deciding on focusing on and allowing yourself to give yourself to the tasks that you want to accomplish and to relate to your body in such a way that it can do it that is what hypnosis helps you to do so you’re not losing control you’re making control you’re
Enhancing it you’re telling your brain and your body this is what I want to focus on this is how I want to relate to my body uh I I will not let myself get distracted by anything else and I will just um uh be the kind of person who can do that
I I was asked by the coach of the Stanford Stanford has a wonderful women swimming team they’re really good populate the Olympics a lot um and the coach noticed that his his strongest swimmers were doing better in practice than they were in Meats now normally you
Think you know really is that right that yes that they and and that’s a matter of focusing on the wrong thing and the and the message there is basically focus on the process not the goal not the outcome because what you do when you’re focused on the outcome is you’re disconnecting
From your body and your control of your body so what I had the women swimmers do we did a group hypnosis session was picture themselves just swimming their best race but not not in a meat just you’re in the lane do and you know swimming is not a contact sport you know
It really doesn’t matter what the woman in the next Lane is doing what matters is what you’re doing so focus on what matters and I had them focus on their relationship with their body how they interact with their body in such a way that it feels good to be swimming as
Well as they can the Rhythm Of The Strokes where you pull where you kick how much how you how you plan for the turn how you do it so that they’re enjoying the experience of making the most of their body and using it well and not worrying about what the time is and
You know what their times got better because they did not allow themselves to be distracted by what was going on in the lanes next to them and that’s the kind of thing that I am sure I I have no personal experience of it but I am sure
That that’s what tiger does I understand that he does a kind of self- hypnosis and plans every every swing and does it before and then um he’s done fairly well doing it I would say so I you know I get the image of just throwing off everything that hinders us when you
Share the the anecdote of the the lady swimmers um with regard to Tiger you know when I’ve been out there inside the ropes with them at the very highest of levels it almost seems like you can look at him at times and he appears like he’s
In the xenac state like he’ll look at me but almost look through me and I was on a show here recently and they asked it was like a celebration of tiger and they asked you know a bunch of us just talk they they would give a record of is and
Then asked us ask us to a pine and I was like the thing about tiger is that he appears like when the moment happens The Man shows up you know when every shots worth one but tiger would sense that there were shots that just meant something more and he would be there and
He would deliver it was an uncanny ability so I guess my story ends with a question is this self hypnosis can you switch it on and switch it off and switch it on and switch it off or is he in this sort of State throughout the
Round yeah no you can switch it on and switch it off and I think what you’re pointing out Mark is he was not you know focusing on the long game picture of what will it mean if I win this tournament or not he’s focused on that
Moment on how I have to be with my body so that we connect and do what we need to do right here right now it’s and and when he’s looking through you he’s said you’re a nice guy Mark but you know I I I’m I’m not here to build a relationship
With you I’m here to make this play work and so it’s it’s a matter of as you narrow the focus of attention you put outside of it things that you may have to do something about but that are not crucial to the way because what matters
Is how he relates to his body and how his Body Works um when he takes that next shot and so the capacity to filter out everything else and and and just be present for what you need to do is I think his way of maximizing and
Optimizing what he does and it’s why he can look so glacially calm and seem uh you know Focus but not necessarily focusing on you focusing on what he needs to pay attention to and that’s a tremendous talent that he’s making very good use of I would argue and I’m sure
You would agree that every great achiever gets to this place um I want to talk to you about the health benefits of hypnosis too but I’ll never forget it’s almost burned into my memory my career in broadcast began with radio and I was up in the PGA to a radio Studios at
SiriusXM in Washington DC and along the walls they had these big black and white pictures of Janice Joplin and Bruce Springstein and there was a picture of um Jimmy Henrick the photographer had caught this image and I get goosebumps describing it where he’s obviously the auditorium is
Packed to the rafters you cannot see that but this picture is on him and you can see the guitar and you can see him with a microphone in front just looking into the distance and I was I was drawn in by this because you could just see he
Was like 100% there he was in his moment doing his thing and not worried about what was going on around him that’s very yeah he was in his Purple Haze that’s you go absolutely that’s what it is in fact the old color hypnotist used to wear was purple it’s kind of interesting actually
Um but but yes and and but there it’s interesting there’s something sort of magnetic about it isn’t it you you see somebody like that and they the the crowd could sense that I’m sure that he was engaged in the experience of making the music and the sound and not oh this
Is good we got a good turnout here you know more than 10,000 people and you know none of that it’s like and and there is something very attractive about that good actors do that too they just you know they’re they’re you tell them you you that was terrific they sort of
Don’t know what you’re talking about because they were that person yeah they become the person they’re playing and and it’s that capacity to give yourself and to be different and and maybe I can explain a little uh Mark about what goes on in the brain when people are
Hypnotized that might help for the flesh out what Jimmy Hendricks was undoubtedly going through in that photo um there are three things that happen and we’ve taken high and low hypnotizable people given them hypnotic and non hypnotic instructions put them in the fmri the the magnetic resonance imaging
Scanner and we can determine where activity is happening in their brains and three things happen one you turn down activity in the anterior singulate cortex the dorsal part of the anterior singulate now the the singulate cortex is like a c on its ends right in the
Middle of your brain and the front part is what we call the salience network it’s kind of the alarm system of the brain it does pattern matching and if something happens if you hear a loud noise and it pulls your attention away that’s that part of your brain saying
You better look out there might be something bad going on out there um and if you turn down activity in that part of the brain it frees you to focus more intently so just like you’re saying you know tiger could see you and say hello but he wasn’t really focusing on you he
Wasn’t letting you distract him from what he needed to be doing which was connecting with his body and planning his next shot um and so that’s a crucial part and one thing you should know about this part of the brain is that it it it is rich in what inhibitory
Neurotransmitter called Gaba gamma aminic acid it’s a transmitter that um is affected by most anti-anxiety drugs like how praisal I am um and clopin and others it it so it’s it inhibits this kind of arousal you’ve got your own little hypn Pharmacy in your brain there
So if you need more of it it will secrete it and bind to receptors they calm you down you can do it internally and and so highly hypnotizable people have more of those receptors that can bind to um to Gaba so you soothe yourself and don’t worry so much so part
Of Tiger’s glacial calm is this capacity to just turn down that part of his brain and not like let him get distracted the second is hyper connectivity High functional connectivity between the executive control Network in the front of the brain um the dorsal lateral prefrontal cortex and a part of the
Brain called the insula insula is Latin for Island it’s a little island of neural tissue in the middle of the front of your brain and it’s the Mind Body conduit so it’s a part where the brain controls the body and the brain gets what’s called interoception it gets
Signals from the body how it’s doing do you feel good or not your GI system comfortable or uncomfortable um we’ve been able to show that in hypnosis people can control in two directions the secretion of gastric acid which you have to do if you’re going to if you eat a
Meal only we had people hypnotized eating imaginary meals and they got an 89% increase in their gastric acid secretion we’d spend an hour doing a gastronomic tour of the Bay Area and I swear one woman halfway through said let’s stop I’m full just eating imaginary food and and then we had them
Do the opposite picture anything relaxing being on a beach in the tropics somewhere anything except food or drink and they had a 39% decrease in their gastric acid secretion so then my colleague the gastroenterologist who was had an NG tube down and was recording the gastric acid said let’s try this we
Injected them with pentagon gin which is a natural hormone that causes the stomach to secrete more yric acid and even when we did that we in the hypnosis condition we had a 19% decrease in gastric acid now you wouldn’t think you could do this so this is a level of
Control and sensation in your body that we don’t even think we have and that is enhanced in hypnosis you can enhance your brain’s ability to connect with your body to read what’s going on in your body and to control it the third thing um and it’s some ways the most
Interesting is inverse functional connectivity between the the prefrontal cortex and the back of the singulate cortex the default mode Network it’s the posterior singulate the default mode is the part of your brain that sort of identifies who you are and what you are and what people think of you it’s um
When you’re not doing anything and you start reflecting who am I have I achieved what I want to achieve do people respect me do they like me do they not like me that’s the default mode and you just shut that down that’s where the cognitive flexibility comes and
That’s where tiger can just say you know I don’t care what you think of me I don’t care what the sports writers are going to write about me tomorrow I’m in myself I’m the kind of person who gives primary focus right now to how I am
Relating to my body and what that next shot needs to be and how I’m going to do it and and connecting with your body there’s a there’s a book called Zen In The Art of archery in which a uh a man who is observing how how people practice
Zen wrote that the mistake people make in in archery is they focus too much on the Target now you think well what the hell else are you going to focus on he says here’s what you’re going to focus on your relationship with the bow and arrow that’s what really matters and if
Your relationship with the bow and arrow is right you will hit the target um but if you’re focusing just on the target you’re not paying attention to what actually matters which is how your body interacts with the bow and arrow and the same is true with golf and with other
Sports that you want to be in the right relationship with the club um with the tennis racket whatever it is and then you will you will succeed um but it’s not by focusing on the goal or what it’ll mean if you win this thing that’s distracting yourself so those are the
Three things that happen in the brain with hypnosis fascinating um you mentioned the relationship with a golf club or the tennis racket or you know the bow and arrow and I’ve been as an instructor and a coach you can accuse me of saying to folks you need to focus more you need to
Be more purpose– driven you know because engulf we we there’s this funny thing where our value is defined by how well we get the ball to the Target and how few Strokes we take so that occupies all of the attention but then you’ve got this Implement in your hand this design
To propel the golf ball to the Target and we completely lose um any sort of awareness of it and then you make the swing you thinking positive all these Grand intentions but the ball flies off into Kingdom Come so so what you say that to me I’m like yes
And I can see now why a Tiger Woods when that moment was at its greatest you can see him just lock in and it’s like the club becomes an extension of him it’s like just tossing a ball you know something very normal he’s he’s relating
To his body and his body to the club and nothing else matters and that’s exactly right if you start thinking about what it’ll mean if you miss it you’re going to miss it um or even if you’re focusing on what it’ll mean if you get it you’re still disconnecting your brain from its
Control of your body that’s what matters that’s what you’re doing and so I understand he mentally rehearses each swing before he takes it um there the uh there’s a story about the Olympic ski team at the Sochi Olympics which that bastard Putin decided had to be in Sochi
Even though they had virtually no snow um it was terrible experience for the skiers because they could only do one practice run there was so little snow that they didn’t want to degrade the slope so bod Miller and the other members of the Olympic team would get up
To the top of the of the Run stand there look at it and mentally make every turn every move they had to make all the way down down and the US team did extremely well in that under terrible adverse circumstances and and there are I know
Stories of uh uh you know people who do uh you know parallel bars and and uh and those kinds of events in the Olympics who if they get an injury which they often do will still go to the gym every day and just sit there and mentally
Rehearse what they will do when they heal when their bodies get better and they do better they do better because they’re doing the mental programming even if they can’t do the physical programming and We Know by the way that neurons that fire together wire together so you’re building Pathways in your
Brain uh to to do what you need to do it’s not simply a mental exercise it’s a mental neurological exercise where you’re also preparing your brain to to follow those paths and be in better control of your physical activity yeah you know what I love that I’m writing it
Down neurons that fire together wire together um because we can get so physically aware like when I’ve gone to my golf teacher for a lesson and he or she has told me to do this and that and it becomes very mechanical uh instead of look thinking upon this where it’s
Basically signals from the mind to the neur that the neurons travel into the muscles and you are rewiring Pathways to make this habitual change because if you’re not completely engaged and I’m now making a statement to get your take RAR it’s like you know kind of spitting
Into the wind because you’re not you you you might be in it but you’re not in it if you know what I’m saying mentally well you know you’re you’re sending your body mixed messages when you do that and it’s a little bit you know one way I ask
People to help their bodies in lots of ways is to think of their body as if it were their child okay uh because your body is as dependent on you as as your child is or was and you know children know very quickly when you’re distracted when you’re really paying attention to
Something else and they need your connection to be happy doing whatever it is they’re doing and your body is like that that that if you’re paying attent yeah yeah I got to get through this next shot but I but you know then there are two more that are more difficult and and
Then there’s this guy giving me dirty looks and you know you’re distracting and your body will react the same way your kid does when you’re not giving them your full attention so it’s a it’s a think of caring for your body uh as you practice getting your body to do
What you want it to do I want to ask about the health aspect of it too because you said a lot of Club golfers even professional golfers the game’s changing it’s more athletic and so there’s more stress put on the body and folks are suffering with health issues
And and hips and backs and stuff like that in the game so I want to talk about the healing of it because I believe in that but you made a statement earlier that caught my attention um you mentioned if someone was highly hypnotizable right so it begs the
Question are there folks that are averse to being hypnotized is there such a thing well it’s not so much averse it’s not an attitude you know they we’re not blaming the subject if if some people are just not hypnotizable and I the first thing I do with every patient I
See is measure their hypnotize ability it takes about five minutes and it’s that that that YouTube with Andrew huberman I was testing his hypnotizer and I just love that and if you want to get a kick watch this because here you see This brilliant bearded tough guy uh
Who is sympathetic to hypnosis we’ve done collaborative research together he’s a terrific guy but I’m testing his hypnotizability and the instruction and part of it is your hand will feel light and buoyant float up in the air if I pull it down it’ll float right back up
To the upright position and you see him looking at his hand like what the hell is going on here because he said he said it was like it wasn’t a part of his body it was crazy yeah exactly it feels it feels dissociated that’s exactly right
And it’s got like a mind of its own you know it’s doing what it wants to do and I just love that look of aaz on his face when he’s doing that um and that’s what some people can do more easily than others and it’s not a matter of
Resistance or a bad attitude about 20% of adult adults are just not very hypnotizable 20% are extraordinarily hypnotizable they’re just in it most of the time their problem is you not getting into hypnotic States but staying out of them and the majority about 60% uh are moderately hypnotizable so
They’ll have the experience but then they’ll reflect and wonder what is this like am I really doing it right and then they’ll get back into it hypnotizability in adult life is as stable a trait as IQ it just doesn’t change very much and there are bi ological reasons for that
And there are developmental reasons for it so biologically we found a genetic variation that is associated with higher hypnotized ability it has to do with a a gene catacol Oyl transfer it’s a gene um that is involved in dopamine metabolism and if you have the right amount of
Dopamine in your brain at all times uh dopamine populates a lot of the frontal part of the brain you can access hypnotic responsiveness more easily and we actually have developed a point of care test for that variant the veine methionine variant of the CT Gene that
We could measure I mean I can do it behaviorally but we can actually measure biologically whether you’re genetically more likely to be hypnotizable um and there are also developmental reasons um people who uh whose parents engaged in imaginative involvements told kidss a lot of stories read them stories when
They went to sleep enjoy going to that place of intense focus and using their imaginations and by the way all eight-year-olds are in transes all the time you know as you know if you call your 8-year-old in for dinner they don’t hear you they’re out playing and it’s
Why childhood is so is like that hanging on to his hypnotizability um it it it’s uh you know work and play are all the same for kids it’s a shame we try to make them into little adults because they their imagination gets all in co-mingled with what it is they’re learning it’s a
Wonderful time of life and most children in that age period are very hypnotizable but as we develop adult cognition where we value reason more and and emotion less um some of us lose some of that hypnotic ability the other path is is a Less Pleasant one and that is that children
Who have been mistreated in one way or another often use it as an escape from an Pleasant reality and they can’t let go of it so it’s it’s got positive and negative sources in the background but um people’s hypnotized ability it’s not a matter of resisting or not trying it’s
Some people have more ability than others and it’s a matter we have a test on Ry where in five minutes you can find out whether you’re a high a poet mid-range a diplomat or low uh researcher um and that just guides you in how you will use it it doesn’t mean
You can’t get benefit but you do it in different ways I feel like look I have not been hypnotized maybe I I’m I’m sure I’ve had moments because I can stare at a Sunset and and have tears in my eyes and and so I I mean I can get so through
This thing because it elicits all these emotions within so I I want to say and maybe I’m just being a salesperson here given that we are beings with purpose and everyone’s wondering what their purpose is being in the state where we’re just basically free to be whoever I’m sure that it’s it’s
Exhilarating to to be there and and to and then the after experience so that’s my question so whilst you’re being hypnotized and afterwards what what is the feeling I’m fascinated well it it’s one of those things it’s you know I it’s similar to what’s been described as a
Flow state where just being there is its own reward you know you’re not being there to do something else you’re being there just cuz it’s fun to be there or when you know if you’ve had a moment of excitement in some work you’re doing and you realize you’ve been doing it for two
Hours and you missed an appointment and you just were so into it that it it is it is self-reinforcing it’s just uh it’s just fun to be there and by the way you’re usually very productive and doing interesting things so I see you waving your hand and you you’ve been there
You’ve done that and and and it’s great it’s it’s a moment of kind of internal Harmony where your brain and your body are together and you’re just focusing on on being somewhere you like to be on doing something you like to do and doing it well and it’s its own reward and by
The way if you win a tournament great but you you would do it just to be in that state and enjoy the sense of Harmony between your your brain and your body yeah I I can certainly concur there because as an instructor when I watch people let’s just talk very here and
Say there’s a pre-shot routine where you put things in place to give the upcoming shot the best chance of success and I’ve seen people autopilot their way through there where they’re kind of Switched Off and they’re just doing what they’ve been taught to and then I can watch folks who
In their routine where it’s like you can see that they completely given up to this process of you know breathing appropriately and making your rehearsal swing and then almost becoming what’s about to happen yes because I because I see so many golfers where I’ve done this with a client and
It’s now improving I’m guessing it’s you would agree where every day instead of hitting balls I want them just to make 100 swings just free flowing because there was a certain hit impulse where you know when I’m going to hit something they react it’s like the the the sniper
I’m sure and it’s amazing how just these swings and not being concerned about the contact and what might happen now all of a sudden it’s been liberating and it’s opening up this Avenue of developments does that make sense absolutely what you’re teaching them is to be in sync
With the process and not worry about the outcome when you’re having them swing you’re disconnecting it from the outcome it’s not it’s not where the ball goes it’s your relationship with the club and how you swing and how your body connects with it so you’re teaching them to focus
On the the process rather than the outcome incredible um what would you say to the folks I think I know the answer but I just must ask this because I’m listening to you like a fan I’m listening to you like I’m sitting in one of your your classrooms right now I just
Get to ask all the questions um great the I’m certain folks are listening to this going wow that’s cool I got to get the rerey app but oh my goodness I’m kind of nervous of this and I’m apprehensive and I’m just not sure because again we we’re relinquishing a certain amount of control
What’s your message yeah I’d say try it you’ll like it and if you don’t like it you can stop I mean that’s a real advantage of hypnosis over any drug and I prescribe meds I’m a doctor but um you can turn it on you can turn it off all
Hypnosis uh mark is really self hypnosis um and so all I’m doing is showing you how to identify mobilize and utilize an ability that you have to the extent that you have it and I I will say that most people are surprise themselves at at
What they can do and how they feel I had a I saw for the first time a lovely young woman yesterday 24 years old uh who has a genetic disease that uh limits the the amount of cartilage she has in her joints especially her knees and so
Now she’s about out of cartet she’s going to have to have major surgery to try and repair it she’s in pain all the time because it’s bone on bone in her knees and um she uh had never tried hypnosis before and I said well I want you to imagine in hypnosis being where
You get some physical relief so she said yeah a warm bath usually helps and so I had her hand up in the air tingling and UMB and imagining being in the bath feeling the warmth penetrating and her pain at the beginning was two to three out of 10 it wasn’t terrible but she
Wasn’t walking around at the time and um she said I’m feeling the warmth and you know my left knee is feeling better now and I said now let your hand spread some of that tingling numbness to your knees and she rubbed them by the end she said
The pain is gone I can’t believe it I don’t have pain now and you know she’s still going to get the knee surgery but just the feeling that she is not sort of sentenced to being in pain all the time uh because part of it part of pain is
Your brain’s expectation of what’s going to happen when you do something that you know usually hurts that’s what the brain is supposed to do but it once you know what it is you know you haven’t just broken your ankle you know that there’s something going on and you can handle it
And you’re not making it worse by using the limb um you don’t need to have an accurate recall of what usually happens when you walk and so she’s now walking around feeling better people can do that without drugs so it’s it’s a something you can try and see if it helps if it
Does we’re finding with Ry that you know four out of five people the first time they use it feel a reduction in pain uh they feel a reduction in stress they they get to sleep and you’ll know right away you know try it you’ll like it if
You don’t uh you can stop um so it’s it’s one of those things where it’s a way of trying on a new skill and seeing what it would be like if you were the kind of person who could actually regulate uh how much discomfort you feel you know I’m a Believer well I’m
Becoming more of because you know way back when you hear the things well like we only use a portion of our brain right which is incorrect but but we’re not really using our brain like you’re teaching us right now and then and then I also believe that the body will heal
Itself or the mind you know that’s the power of the mind um because I sit here I’ve a f youngish 53 man battling High Bess blood pressure for the longest time and you come at me with blood pressure cuff and I can feel my system ramping up
And the doctor’s like well that’s white coat syndrome and I’m like all very well how do I get rid of that and and I’m listening to you now I’m like I think I have my answer so this is very serendipitous that’s that’s exactly right well tell him to take off his coat but
Know no but that’s exactly right it is in in essence the white coat is a signal to you that you’re about to be examined in a way that will make you feel even more anxious because your blood pressure will go up and guess what it does so expectation will have that effect and
What we do in hand teaching people how to handle stress is not from the top down but from the body up so you know if you’re facing a stressor how do you know you’re being stressed well your brain says oh this could be trouble but then immediately your body reacts to that the
White Coat Syndrome here’s this guy with a blood pressure cuff I’m going to find out that my heart’s in worse shape than I thought so your blood pressure goes up your muscles tense you start to sweat and then what happens what happens next mark my mind goes yeah right because you
Notice it you say oh my God this must be really bad because my body feels terrible and then your body says uhoh he’s getting anxious now and it’s like a snowball I call a snowball effect so what we do is interrupt that from the body up see the first thing you’re going
To do is learn how to make your body more comfortable it’s like that idea of treating your body like a child so you soothe it you know if your body if you’re upset your kids upset what you do you sooe them you don’t get angry or frustrated with them you soothe him
Soothe your body imagine in hypnosis you’re floating in a bath a lake a hot tub or floating in space take in a a breath and then slowly exhale several slow exhales what we call it a cyclic sigh which helps you trigger parasympathetic activity get your body floating and then
Only then with your body safe and comfortable picture what it is that’s worrying you and you picture it on an imaginary screen but out there not inside your body and then you think well what can I do about this you know it doesn’t have to be the right answer but
Let me just think of a solution so you’ve already calmed your body you’ve enabled your your body to stay calm while you’re picturing something that makes you anxious and you’re able to think more freely about what you might do about it and you know that you know
If you have a big project you have to do the minute you actually figure out a way to do it you start to feel better you start to feel less anxious because you see the path you know you see what you can do so you can use self- hypnosis to do it
From the body up calm your body and then deal with the problem you have just showed a very good golf lesson for everyone listening too because we all get you know prior to that first t-shot and or the big round of golf or the final whatever we we had it’s all this
Forward thoughts what might happen and stuff but just to bring your be present and be present with your body and do what you do for your own little child if you were teaching your child to ride a bicycle or something fantastic you know don’t worry about falling because then
You’ll fall think about how you need to connect with that bicycle and be in control of it and get up enough speed to keep your balance up and that kind of thing focus in the present yeah Dr David sorry to cut over you I was just no
Problem just I know I’ve kept you for a long time um this has been tremendous I mean honestly me and I’m sure all of the thousands of listeners um feel like they’ve been under your Council for about about 45 minutes so thank you well it it begs the question you’ve written
Like 13 books amongst other things yeah where can folks find those where where do where do they go well the best thing is to go to www. ry.com that’s the Ry website we have uh reprints of my papers summary of the research instructions about how to use
Ry to get help with pain stress insomnia Focus stopping smoking uh controlling drinking eating more sensibly um we have a whole bunch of different programs that you can try out um the first week is free um you if you don’t like it you know that’s fine it won’t cost you
Anything um and you can download the Revy app from if you have an iOS phone from the app store if you have an Android from Google Play and um I welcome you there you go to Try It Out Try It Out uh and and see if it helps
You see if it makes you feel better but we’ve had you know half a million downloads lots of people are interested in it and using it and uh I hope I hope your listeners will give it a try and I’ll tell you one example I Athletics is
Not my big thing I I enjoy skiing and doing lots of things I was trying to water ski and I just couldn’t you know you you get tense you kind of hold on too tight to the cord and I kept face planting in the water and I said come on
Spiegel you teach people this for a living and I hypnotized myself and all I said to myself was arms straight knees bent I was doing the opposite I was keeping my knees straight so I couldn’t you know absorb the the the bouncing and trying to control it with my arms which
Was making it less steady a pull yeah and so I arm straight knees bent arm straight knees bent and you know what I was up in skiing so uh you know I I have I’m I’m usually the last one to remember that I do this for a living but it works
It’s like it’s like me when I give golf lessons I mean goodness gracious I don’t get to play very much and I am I’ve got thousands of Swing thoughts going on in my head prior to the time but your point is so well founded all the best
Information in the world amounts to a hill of be beans if you can’t direct yourself to the job at hand that that and just think of your relationship with your body and how you’re helping it and it’s helping you and that’s what matters the most and you’ve and you’ve honestly
Helped all of us so I’m so thankful to you for joining us this has been fascinating and enlightening and so thank you my pleasure mark thank you for having me how’s
