Could the Packers Hire Mike Caldwell as Defensive Coordinator?!

On today’s show, Andy is joined by Carmen Vitali to discuss Mike Caldwell as a potential defensive coordinator option, Packers/49ers, the Lions run to the NFC Championship game, and the Bears decision to hire Shane Waldron. Don’t miss it!

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What is up everybody welcome into an all new episode of the pack aay podcast I’m your host Andy Herman you can follow me on Twitter at Andy Herman NFL you know my guest she’s the one and only Carmen Vitali you can find her on X or Twitter

At carv of course you can find her on Fox Sports covering the NFC North Carmen before we jump in today just really wanted to say thank you for all the time that you’ve taken out of your time to spend uh some time with us Packer fans

And in through the Packers in the NFC North all season long um I’m sure we’ll be in touch during the offseason but this has been amazing and we really appreciate all the time that you put into this well I appreciate you having me it’s been a lot of fun uh this season

And especially given the way that the season went so I appreciate being welcomed into the Packers Fan uh Community it’s been great of course of course you’re always welcome anytime it is of course another nons slow news week in the NFC North uh specifically from a Packers side of things although the

Lions kind of have some things going on as well this week uh let’s start obviously with the Packers and let’s start with the decisions that Matt laflor has already made and made them rather quickly of course they lose the game on Saturday to the 49ers which

We’ll discuss in just a little bit on Monday he has his press conference and talks about taking some time to go through everything and everything is still pretty you know raw and needing some some time to review everything well Wednesday morning apparently he had enough time to review everything

He lets Joe Barry go from his defensive coordinator position Chris gizy strength and conditioning coach has been let go so clearly the message on Monday from Matt was that this team needs to be you know continue to get better things are going to get harder he asked everyone to

Come back in the building better uh when they get back in April uh clearly he is taking this to heart as well because he is looking for ways to improve this team and has wasted no time doing so yeah I don’t think it was necessarily a

Surprise but I think I brought this up to you about like the strength and conditioning coach is because we had seen so many injuries that cropped up later there were complications there were setbacks we saw that with the whole Jer Alexander uh Fiasco I guess with him

Missing so many different games but not really knowing if you he was going to be available week in week out um I think that that was probably an under the radar need for the Packers was to evaluate that staff and clearly they felt like it wasn’t meeting their

Standards and Joe Barry I mean I the defense got better as as the year went on but it was I think a little bit too little too late from that standpoint I’m looking forward to seeing who they can bring in here I think there’s quite a few candidates out there that could

Bring something different and really make something of all of the talent that’s on that side of the ball in Green Bay I’m excited to pick your brain on that in you know a second to what type of scheme or what type of defensive coordinator Green Bay could go after but

You mentioned Green Bay’s defense there’s no question about it they definitely played better in those last four games of the season to the point where people were questioning well maybe he will be back I went back and I watched those games you know kind of with a fine tooth comb I do think

There’s a lot of fools gold there still specifically um obviously Minnesota you’ve got a quarterback situation in that game jiren Hull Nick Mullins it was not an ideal Minnesota offense they never looked to be in any rhythm maybe give some credit to Joe and the defense

There too of course but that was not your usual high-powered Minnesota offense with Kirk Cousins at quarterback and Jefferson and Addison and hackinson wasn’t in that game um felt a little bit Fool’s Goldy uh the the Bears it’s their final game of the season there’s all the questions surrounding Justin Fields

Darnell Mooney’s out of that game and that one too um I I do think they’ve done a good job against that bears offense and I’m sure Chicago would have liked to spoil Green Bay season it just didn’t feel like the Bears ever got anything on it’s again it’s not like

This is a juggernaut Bears offense at any point during the season you go to Dallas Dallas felt so tight to start that game and there was like some weird CD lamb drama and then all of a sudden you do get a couple breaks and give I I

Do give Joe Barry and the defense a lot of credit for the jaw pick the pick six by Darnell Savage but all of a sudden that game’s 27 nothing and then again Dallas does everything they want the rest of the game but they just had too

Big of a lead at that point and then San Francisco some good stuff but obviously some huge missed opportunities with the missed interceptions and then when the season mattered most the the offense uh the defense excuse me has the ability to get San Francisco’s offense down the

Field even this game no Debo Sam from basically the first quarter on and it just all of it combined still didn’t feel good enough and I think Matt laflor made the right decision here yeah I think so too and that’s kind of the tough part of this business is good

Isn’t good enough I think also what you this last these last few games of the season the regular season into the postseason you also saw an offense that was clicking so that the defense really didn’t need to especially in that Dallas game the defense had no pressure on it

Whatsoever they the offense jumped off jumped out to such a huge Le lead um and there was you know the the pick six that was involved there but at the same time the offense is capable of scoring now and the defense can trust that so there

Was no there was no point in the season where I felt like the defense is putting this on their back and they’re going to help out this team no matter what they’re going to go out and win a game for the Packers and that’s what you’re going to need in this division going

Forward given the fact that the lions are looking like a juggernaut as much as they can offensively and then defensively we’ve seen some really creative stuff from Aaron Glenn who’s garnering head coaching opportunities or interviews um and now you’ve got the Minnesota Vikings who have figured out

Their defense they just need to figure out their offense and the same with the Bears the Bears are a sneaky good team that defense did figure a lot of things out I expect them to go into next season with some momentum so to keep Pace with just your division teams you’re gonna

Need good isn’t good enough and that was I think what Matt laflor recognized and it’s it’s a hats off to him for doing that because I know something like that’s not easy a guy that you brought in a guy that you had have had a long-standing relationship with Matt

Laflor is a loyal guy to sometimes to a fault um which we saw kind of this season but I I really commend him for making the hard decision because it’s not easy no and and to your point not only in the NFC North but if this is a

Team that has legitimate Super Bowl aspirations especially the way their offense played at the second half of this year and they want to continue to Trend in that direction you need a top 10 defense I mean maybe top 12 at worst but like you need a top 10 defense to be

Able to compete at level Green Bay doesn’t have that they’ve never had it under Joe Barry I think the three big things is never like you mentioned you never could really lean on them you never felt comfortable in doing so number two you never saw any real true legitimate improvements from year one

Under Joe Barry to year three under Joe Barry some of the same mistakes you know really you know kind of continue to happen and then number three there’s not any one thing that they could hang their hat on that you’re like you know what there’s some struggles but they do this

Really great they’re a ball Hawking team or they’re a run stopping team or they like there’s not one thing that they did great and you had all of that up together and while it’s a a difficult personal decision from like a wide view it it just felt like it had to be

Done let’s talk let’s talk about some potential Replacements or and whether it’s a specific name of a coordinator or a scheme or uh anything that you’re looking to maybe copy from another team that’s doing it well through uh through the course of the League what would you

Like to see or what do you think Green Bay should do as they sort of look for a replacement for Joe Barry I know there’s been like the big names like Brandon Staley that people want to kind of stay away from or I mean Vic fangio but that

Looks kind of predestined to the Philadelphia Eagles at this point there’s another guy out there though that I haven’t heard any Buzz about and he was a guy that was letg go in Jacksonville and his name is Mike Caldwell and I worked with Mike Caldwell at the Buccaneers in Tampa and I don’t

Think that his scheme is very aggressive he comes from he came up under Todd bus he does so so many interesting things with the front and with Green Bay’s defensive line I just feel like he could do so many fun things with all of the pieces that are there and The Versatile

Pieces that are there I mean you look at a guy like Lucas vaness who they Brian G talked about earlier when they drafted him like well we envisioned a scenario where he can go inside or outside because he’s that versatile and that kind of build of a player and you hadn’t

Really seen a ton like that a ton of creativity out of a guy like that so I think a guy like Mike Caldwell could take it anage of that and I just haven’t heard his name floated anywhere I realized he was let go in Jacksonville

But I think that that was more of a scapegoat situation where Doug Peterson had to make changes I mean he fired both of his coordinators if I’m not mistaken and so there’s there was a lot of changes that needed to happen in order for Doug Peterson to keep his job I

Don’t think that speaks to who Mike Caldwell is a as a defensive coordinator um and the system that he runs and the staff that he has so I would be very interested to go and and take a look at him I don’t know it’s a really interesting name I think I’ve looked at

Every different uh article and potential defens defensive like name that’s out there I’ve probably got like 30 35 names tabulated this is the first time anyone’s brought up Mike cwell and it’s a really interesting name to keep an eye on obviously Jaguars defensive coordinator the past couple years but as

You mentioned worked in Tampa Bay really great job as an inside linebackers coach there Devon white played his best football uh during that time when calwell was there um the other interesting thing would not be the first time that uh Matt laflor hired a uh fired Jacksonville coordinator who got

Scapegoated out of Jacksonville with Nathaniel Hackett of course being his off his first offensive coordinator when he took over in Green Bay so there’s been a little bit of history there guess there’s a precedent for it yeah there’s some precedent there for it that’s a really interesting name that I had not

Thought of and would be one to keep an eye on ien heard anybody talk about him no not at all um I do like your mindset though of like what type of defense and like how they could be aggressive with their defensive line and you you know

Utilize that front to the best their ability maybe leave jaw a little bit more on an island on the the backside because he’s capable of doing those sort of things I think you know some people might say well Mike cwell of all the names out there maybe you know maybe

Because it hasn’t been mentioned or because he was fired whatever it might be that it might not move the needle for some people but he runs a very similar type of scheme as to what a lot of Packer fans are saying that they want in this sort of Defense moving forward it’s

A really interesting name I’m glad you brought that one up yeah and I think when you have a guy like Alexander who can handle that island or should be able to handle that Island I mean this is the top paid corner in the league that you’re talking

About probably not for much longer but he is a very he’s very well compensated for what he does and obviously J takes a lot of pride in what he’s able to do and who he’s able to shut down so I think that leaving kind of those guys on an

Island and not to say that my Caldwell’s scheme doesn’t incorporate a lot of mixed coverages and stuff like that it does do that and you do need some pieces in the back field but again I just feel like this Green Bay the talent on the

Green Bay Side of the ball we talk about so much about how it’s you there’s so many first round picks on that side of the ball but there’s also so many versatile guys that I feel like are under have been underutilized the last few years because the scheme just hasn’t

Been creative enough to use them in different ways that I feel like they’re fully capable of being used it’s I don’t disagree at all it’s going to be so interesting to see what type of coordinator they go with is it a experienced veteran coach is it somebody

Like a Mike cwell who’s maybe had a cup of coffee a defensive coordinator didn’t work out but they think it can work out better in Green Bay with a different level of talent or is it somebody completely fresh somebody um like a Christian Parker in Denver or somebody

Like that they bring in from the college ranks like a Jim Leonard there’s so many different ways they can do this I’m so interested to see just even the interviews that they set up is it like all like you know on the defensive backfield side is it like all veteran

Defensive coordinators is I’m so intrigued and I do think the really fun thing for Green Bay is they have a lot of really great options that are out there and it’s sort of hard to imagine that almost whichever direction they go in that it’s not going to feel like it’s

Going to be an improvement in some capacity obviously time will tell a lot of people felt that way when they moved on from Bob Sanders and then from Don Capers and then from Mike petton and now from Joe Barry doesn’t always go that way but I think there is a lot of

Excitement in Green Bay about moving on let’s talk a little bit about Packers 49ers it’s an interesting game in a variety of different ways a game that Green Bay had every opportunity to win I think every ‘s uh you know obviously talked about a lot of the missed

Opportunities for the Packers in this game Miss field goal dropped interceptions we can go on and on what did you take away from this game either as to what is a building block moving forward or what is something that Packer fans are going to Ru for the history of

Time because they couldn’t get this job done yeah I I I really hope that this isn’t something that P Packers fans are gonna like it’s gonna sting you going forward because I know it stings at the time and I think I even tweeted something like listen I’m going to let

You feel your feelings because you were so close close and there was the opportunity there there for all intents and purposes I think the Packers should have won that game but at the same time you have to feel good about the future going forward this was I I know the term

House money has been thrown around a ton when it comes to this but it’s true I mean nobody this was not necessarily a priority this year was making a Super Bowl run it was making sure that you have your quarterback under Center and that you understand this team going

Forward and you have a foundation to build upon and that you have that and then some so I hope it doesn’t sting too much because I think that the future is so bright for this team although I do think there are some more maybe concerns going forward than people are talking

About just given the fact that Jordan love you know you had three years of a team controlled contract that’s the drawback of this team building strategy where you did not take advantage of that in building the team around him but the rest of the team is Young too so I this

This strategy has paid off time and time and again and I don’t think that there’s any reason reason to suspect it won’t going forward in this latest chapter of the Green Bay Packers yeah I think that the love thing is interesting with the contract because it’s obviously going to

Get a lot bigger when he does sign it this offseason which I do think is a foregone conclusion my guess is they’re going to backload the crap out of that thing and probably give them two to three years of pretty good Financial flexibility the other benefit is the

Fact that they were able to get this far this year and probably should be in the NFC championship game while having a massive Aaron Rogers cap hit on their contract and that obviously will be coming off so even if that portion goes to Jordan um you still able were able to

Put this team together and have so much young talent and if you get to a point where well eventually you’re gonna have to pay those guys those are usually good problems to have is to like figuring out how to keep really good players so hopefully that is the case but the point

Stands they they are like this the Superhero cheat code is that you have a really talented team with a quarterback that’s on a rookie contract not making any money and that was one of well I I liked like I understood the pick I like Jordan as a quarterback coming out of

College the one line that was really tough to threat is like like what’s the as long as Jordan’s on the contract and you’re using resources to draft other quarterbacks while Aaron’s on the team it’s not helping Aaron and while Aaron is gonna have these huge cap hits while

Jordan takes over it’s not helping Jordan it’s like there’s this really tough Dynamic of threading the line between the two but they’ve done a pretty good job of it and hopefully they continue to do that moving forward yeah I think the way that you th you kind of

Thread that needle or you tow that line is the fact that you have other young players on the team this doesn’t just concern the quarterback as far as you know drafting them letting them sit and and having them be on a cheap contract you clearly can save money elsewhere

When all of your offensive weapons the and a lot of times the second most you know uh expensive guys on the field are first and second year players that you don’t have to pay till 2025 or 2026 so that I think is going and and just what

You said about being able to offload the dead cap hit from Aaron Rogers and be able to kind of shift that money over to Jordan you need to figure out some stuff with David bakari if he’s gonna come back and if he’s like that’s that’s his that’s the biggest cap hit on this

Roster as of right now so it’s going to be very interesting how they kind of move all that money around but they’re set up for the fact that they have receivers really really good receivers and a lot of them for basically next to nothing yeah they really do and and you

Wrote a great article this week about the Packers team building strategy and how it served them well and how they should be able to continue to do it moving forward I want to combine that and kind of go over that article while also asking you what were kind of your

Key takeaways from this season and what you’ll be watching for from the Packers this offseason yeah I mean this is it was I think when it happens twice between like Brett Favre and Aaron Rogers you think okay there’s something to this but maybe they just kind of got lucky again yep

Now it’s like no this isn’t entirely on purpose this is something that and I think it’s something that only works in Green Bay and that was a big part of my article was just talking about how and I think we we’ve SP spoken about this before there are so many outside

Pressures in politics that come with having an ownership group or an ownership family and that’s this situation that most teams are in in the NFL save for the Green Bay Packers who are owned by the Packers Community by the Green Bay Community and that’s not to say that there’s not politics and

Pressures and stuff because you still have Mark Murphy as the president you still have a GM but you don’t have that immediate okay I’m I’m fighting I’m coaching I’m picking for my job I’m evaluating for my job if you’re goody there’s a lot more patience that’s

Involved when you are allowed it and now that you have a track record to back it up and say hey this has worked for us before this will work again we just need some patience that is afforded to you in Green Bay in a smaller Market again

Without an ownership group and I think it’s really unique I don’t think any team can replicate it and that’s why Green Bay is like is so sustainably successful uh because there’s no like this league is a copycat league but this is not something that you can copy and

That’s you have to be you have to feel good if you’re a Packer fan uh when it comes to stuff like that so that was the main kind of purpose of my article and how much I learned that this is very much a intentional strategy that they have employed for multiple decades now

Since like the 60s and 70s basically since the years and it’s no coincidence or it’s not a fluke and it’s not luck that it’s worked out um and I it’s it’s it’s mading I think for other teams to have to see obviously the ownership part

Is a huge piece of it I also think there’s a part of like what Ron wolf did to tear down everything that was terrible about this team in the 70s and 80s and early like very early 90s to get it to where it’s been like he he did so

Much of the heavy lifting during those early 90 years to get this team Back In Contention and to set a foundation that is literally still paying off up until this day where you’ve basically had this lineage and I know there was a quick Mike Sherman blip in the radar in there

But like basically going from Ron wolf to Ted Thompson to Brian gakin and where basically you know you’re you’re um Ron wolf and you immediately go out and get your quarterback in Brett Favre you’re Ted Thompson you find your guy in Aaron Rogers you’re Brian gakin and you find

Your guy in uh Jordan love and just it’s hard to imagine I know it happened again in the 70s and the 80s but it’s hard to imagine with the foundation that they have set and with the structuring culture that they have in place in Green Bay it’s there’s always can be down

Years there’s no question about it those things can happen whether it’s via injuries or you just hire the wrong coach whatever it might be that can happen but it’s so hard to imagine a situation the way that they’re set up where you’re going to go another like

Eight to 10 years or like a decade long of just consistent no playoff teams you know whatever and of course now that you have Jordan it doesn’t even seem like remotely feasible in the foreseeable future but the the setup that they have in place has worked magically and again

I think Ron wolf deserves a ton of credit for kicking that off in the right direction yeah that’s a great point that I mean there was a reset that happened um during that time period and yeah and now and because of it Packers fans haven’t had to go more than a couple of

Months with a question mark of if their team is going to be okay going forward that was kind of my uh little jab in there was just like hey you guys suffered two whole months this season two whole months where you had some question marks and it was so long I

Know I know we we were drowning like we we were in the desert without water we didn’t know what to do um it was hearkening back of like the handful of weeks where senica Wallace was at quarterback like we it was these were tough times these were very tough times

But is why I had to talk y’all off a ledge in week six it’ll be fine just chill going all right uh what are what are some changes that you do think outside of defensive coordinator obviously what are some changes that you do think Green Bay

Might need to make as they try to keep this thing moving forward uh as they try to be competitive and um going towards a Super Bowl yeah I think when you’re looking at needs as far as Personnel goes now you’re you’re having to look at that offensive line and figure out okay

What are we going to do with David bakari but also I mean there are other members on that line there are some that are young but there are some that are kind of getting older uh by offensive line standards and by Packers standards I mean this they single I think the

Offensive line single-handedly up the age the average age on the offense and it’s not because they are that old and it’s insane to say because they’re quite a bit younger than me than me or than us and I I but I do think that there are

Some things where you need to go into this next year knowing exactly who your starting five are where they’re starting and you need these guys to hold up and that’s been the issue here is the injuries and the kind of shuffling around that it took a while for Jordan

Love to really get used to things because of the fact that he didn’t know who was in front of him protecting him or at least what combination was in front of him protecting him for the first part of the season and after David bakari went out so early so that is my

Number one thing where I’m going to look at all right who are you g to try and get in the draft just because offensive lineman tackles especially are expensive are you going to are you going to go after a guy like that in the first round

Um are you going to you know fortify that line with some depth and because I don’t think you I mean you don’t need skill players I know they have question marks with a couple of the depth tight ends but at this point you have your top two and they’re young they’re rookies so

Depth piece is there you can get those in free agency you can resign joara you can do any of that that you need to but uh that doesn’t move the needle at all and then defensively I mean you’re G like I you need to see who you bring in

And how much they that varies for their their preferred Personnel varies from what you already have I think you try as much as possible in these defensive coordinator interviews to bring in a guy that could work with the Personnel that’s already there because you do I feel like at least from an Outsiders

Perspective you have all of this untapped potential that we were just talking about and you really want to see what you have in these guys and and the way that they can be used and you feel like you haven’t gotten everything you can out of a lot of them so it’s going

To be interesting to see which defensive coordinator they bring in and then how they need to adjust the Personnel to fit either his scheme or if how he adjusts his scheme to fit who is already in Green Bay but I think oline has to be the priority going into this offseason

Those are all perfect answers I love the fact that you brought up o line because on the one hand I do think they can at least sleep semi easy at night knowing that even if they lose Bak tiari to whatever happens with Bak tiari even if

They lose John runan Jr in free agency Yash and nman in free agency that they can go left to right starting next year rashed Walker Elton Jenkins joshh Meers Shawn Ryan and Zack Tom which is basically outside of like half of the game at Right Guard of of John runan Jr

What you’ve been playing during this entire run where they’ve been putting up you know 30 points a game and you can sleep easy at night that you have that however after if those guys do leave or can’t play whatever it might be your next group up at this point is Luke Tuda

Royce Newman and Caleb Jones and maybe a Caleb Jones or Luke Tuda can step up and play that but that is not a lot of depth and certain not depth that you feel comfortable in and we now know that if you protect Jordan with these weapons

That he has he’s going to be really freaking good the only thing that breaks your offense is if all of a sudden you can’t protect him you can’t open up running lanes and Jordan’s eyes have to start dropping taking his eyes off of down the field and he’s got to do a

Bunch of dancing or you end up with an injured Jordan love so priority onea should still be protecting that guy moving forward making sure when you give him this huge contract that you’re also giving him the protection that he needs so you’re protecting this extremely valuable asset and if you do he’s just

Going to cook so yeah like you want competition you want depth you want to get better players in there and even though you might have five guys that you feel comfortable with starting right now we know that that lasts like a week in the NFL and then all of a sudden it’s a

Royce Newman or a Luke Tuda or someone in there that you’re like oh this is a lot different now and things change entirely so we are in lock step a million percent on that yeah let’s talk let’s take our usual spinner on the NFC North before we get you out of here

There’s not really anything to talk about Vikings so we’re not going to talk about the Vikings but I feel so bad I’ve been I’ve been so busy with like all of the other things that I’ve completely ignored them I promise if there’s any Vikings fans that’s that’s seeing this I

Am going to get to your team as soon as the rest of these guys are out and I am a little bit more able to been Flex I don’t know they want to talk about their team right now you’re fine I know that’s true I don’t know that they’re yeah

Let’s talk about Li feel bad yeah you’re good let’s talk about the Lions because uh they are still playing and they are right now Kings of the NFC North they have the opportunity to go to a Super Bowl the Detroit freaking Lions uh they play the 49ers obviously this week what

Are you going to be watching for in this game and any other takeaways uh from Lions Buccaneers obviously beating them last week I’ll just say really quick I know there was an NFC Center that was in the spotlight a lot this week at a different playoff game uh with which was

Awesome by the way Jason Kelce was amazing but but uh what Frank regn now did in that Buccaneers game was INF freaking credible that dude is a stud of all studs He is unbelievable and deserves so much credit for what he’s able to do against Tampa but the yeah

Somebody said it on Twitter there’s there’s Warriors and then there’s whatever Frank rag now is and it’s true I mean we talked to Taylor Decker the left tackle in the locker room after the game and he literally teered up this is a six seven left tackle that is crying

In front of us talking about how much Frank rag now means to him and how much it meant that Frank rag now fought through everything that he fought through in that game this season in general I mean this is a guy that two years ago literally fractured his throat

And missed I don’t I think maybe one game two games something like that like that’s it and then he earlier in the season he has a miniscus procedure misses one game comes right back in and you just he’s just an Iron Man and it it comes though from a motivation to be out

There with his brothers and to not let these guys down and it means so incredibly much to the offensive line to have a guy like that from a glue perspective from a culture perspective but also this team is a drastically different team when Frank ragn was not

Out there for the offense Jared gof is a drastically different quarterback than he is when Frank ragn now is out there I mean they are second I think there was a stat uh Nate Ty brought up earlier in the season that was they’re second in EPA per play with Frank ragna on the

Field they Dro to 27th when he’s not that is an ex like you can argue that Frank ragnow is the most important Lions player on the field even outside of Jared gof and all of the everybody else on that team he could be the single most important factor in whe whether or not

They win or lose a game and I can’t tell you enough about how you could not even tell that ragnow was hurting after that because it happened in the first half and he comes back out I don’t even think he missed a series and then in the

Second half you would have have never known and especially the fact that what’s really going Overlook is that Jonah Jackson was out at that point left guard and so much so that Frank ragna is now having to help out his backup and take on more double teams take on and

Make sure that he’s looking for work and making sure that his left guard is comfortable it’s wild I mean Taylor Decker helped with that too they kind of you know that those those duties kind of get absorbed between those two but cannot say enough about them cannot say

Enough about the Lions and how much fun that they’ve been to cover and just the culture in that locker room that I’ve talked about all season that stems from Dan Campbell being he’s an emotional Guy this is an emotional team but I it’s it’s so funny to me that people think

That that means that it they could be distracted I’m like if anything that focuses them more that gives them more motivation because they are so in tune with each other and they want to go out there and play for each other and more than that they want to go out there and

Play for the city of Detroit they take on the Persona of that City more than I’ve seen any team do ever and it’s incredible the way that they take pride in nothing coming easy and putting their heads down and working and bringing joy to a just joyless City H football City

For the last serious few decades um it’s an incredible story and I don’t expect anything to really change even with them not being at home in San Francisco this weekend I’m going to be there and I expect to see a lot of Honolulu blue in those stands because Lions fans have

Traveled so well all season I’ve been on been to a multiple Lions Road games this year and I mean every time the stands are just decked out and they have their Jared golf chance ready and all of that kind of stuff so I’m really excited about this game I think that the Lions

Match up weirdly well with the Niners they have I think the best offensive backfield in the NFL between David Montgomery and jir Gibbs and that’s a weakness for the San Francisco defense if you can call it that I guess I mean they’re they’re fantastic def one of the

Best defenses in the league but they have a blind spot when it comes to the Run game and Detroit has so many different ways to beat you on the ground and they have a line that is able to block for those guys no matter what they

Do if they’re going up if it’s a power run they’re going up the Middle with Dave Montgomery sure jir Gibbs bouncing to the outside great they can do it all and there’s going to be probably a little bit of San Francisco going after that left guard spot or the the left

Side of that uh o line but I don’t I don’t see them really backing down I think they’ll have a plan for that especially given how creative Ben Johnson is cannot wait for this game I think it’s going to be so fun obviously Chiefs and Ravens should be a ton of fun

As well should be a great weekend of football Before I Let You Go one last question I have to ask you about the Bears decision to hire Shane Waldren as offensive coordinator your quick thoughts on that and uh how you think that might affect their decision with

Justin fields and the number one overall pick in the draft yeah I don’t think the hiring of Shane Waldren really tips the Neel or tips the one way or the other whether they’re keeping Justin Fields or they’re going to draft a quarterback in the first round but you see what Shane walren was

Able to do with multiple different quarterbacks in Seattle and then dating back to even a guy we were just talking about Jared gof Jared G has had two of his best seasons statistically under Shane Waldren he got two different Pro Bowl nods under Shane Waldren and Shane

Comes from that McBay Shan hry that’s very creative but he has the play calling experience which is something that Luke gy was lacking when the Bears took a shot with him and I think that when you have a defensive head coach you need a guy that has experience on the

Other side of the ball that can almost act autonomously as another head coach for that side of the ball I think Shane Waldren has proved time and again he’s gotten the best out of his quarterbacks no matter what kind of quarterbacks they’ve been I mean Gino Smith is different from Russell Wilson who’s

Different from Jared gof and yet Shane Waldren was able to tailor his system to get the best out of them at each time while keeping a lot of the same kind of core principles play action he loves using his tight ends to kind of marry these concept these play action Concepts

That are just there’s such a variety in what he’s able to do but he marries that with this power Run game and it makes these offenses very complete and very hard to defend so much so too that it’s hard to get a beat on them you can’t

Really pick up Tendencies from a Shane Waldren offense at least not as easily as it is with some other coordinators I think this was a home run higher for the Chicago Bears I went on Chicago television this week and I talked about how proud I was of them uh for investing

In a guy like this that has the experience and you’re not just taking a shot at a young and up young up andc Comer like you have a guy that’s proven and he’s been able to do this no matter who’s under Center for him so good job

Bears proud of you well thanks no I hate it appreciate that I do think it’s a very good hire for them it would have been interesting if they would have went with Cliff kingsberry I feel like that would have been a little bit more of a tell of what direction they were going

In but right you know Caleb yeah I’m with you I don’t think that this necessarily um dict one way or the other with if they go with a rookie or if they go with Justin but that is obviously one of the biggest discussion pieces of this entire offense or offseason moving

Forward excuse me Carmen again thank you so incredibly much for all of your time this entire year I’m sure we will catch up in the offseason at some point but of course tell everyone where they can follow you and again just really appreciate all the time you put into

This well like I said I really appreciate being here and you guys having me and feeling so welcome amongst uh Packer fans but anything uh I’m doing as on Fox sports.com written wise and then any of my appearances or shows or anything like that are on my Twitter at

Carv or Instagram as well uh I will be in San Francisco this weekend or in Santa Clara I should say uh seeing the lions in the conference Championship and we’re GNA see how that goes and then after that we’ll see uh we’ll see about Vegas we’ll roll the dice but who knows

Um it would be a good story if it happens and I’ll be there to to document it which would be great it would be a great story if the Detroit Lions were able to make it to the Super Bowl maybe not so much from a packer standpoint but

If you did have to tell us which NFC North team not named the Packers we would want to be in the Super Bowl it would a million times away be the Lions so at least it’s not the Vikings or bears I think we can say that much at

Least but K again thank you again follow her at Cari VC M IE V you can find me at Andy Herman NFL you can follow the podcast at paday podcast that’s going to do it for us today but until next time and as always go pack go