Josh Lucas evaluates QB class in 2024 NFL Draft | Bernstein & Holmes

Former Chicago Bears director of player personnel Josh Lucas shares his deep dive of the quarterback class in the 2024 NFL Draft. Why does Caleb Williams shine above the rest? What negatives does Drake Maye have? Lucas shared great insight as Dan Bernstein, Laurence Holmes and Leila Rahimi reacted.

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There’s a lot that we want to talk about obviously with the number one pick people are are looking around and saying hey Caleb Williams makes a whole lot of sense what do you see when you watch the tape yeah he’s um he’s different than the rest of the

Class uh I think that was noted um pretty early on in the process even going back to to 22 uh as his first year as a full-time start at SC just a different level of A worldclass athlete he’s not a dynamic Lamar Jackson athlete um he’s a really good runner but he’s got excellent feel and instincts as a runner and whenever you watch a Kansas City Chiefs game momes isn’t the best athlete on the field he’s a really good athlete for the

Position he always makes the best decisions on when to run and he’s always picking up first St cuz he just has that innate six sense that just separates him um from other quarterbacks and this guy I think compared to the rest of this class just has a a a different

Instinctive ability to play the game with his arm and with his legs um that uh that that really separates them from from some other really talented quarterbacks we’re going to talk about when you describe that innate sense Josh is there a certain play that you point

To where you can diagram that or maybe use it as an example for people who want to know because we see a lot of Elite Physical athletic ability but we also see you know his last season which uh which I think tried to catch a lot of uh

His game off guard when you look at the opponents and how he played yeah a lot of chaos uh that I think he brought on himself um remember being in halis Hall in 2021 uh I’ve brought this play up on 670 The Score um on a previous appearance um with with

Swel there’s a play they were in it was the fourth quarter they were playing against Kansas and I believe it was fourth and one and it was a designed QB run and he was stopped behind the line of scrimmage but had the presence of mind

You have to see the play and if you Google the play you can find it it was from his when he was at Oklahoma against Kansas he had the presence of mind to find the teammate and hand the ball off to that teammate who was completely

Unaware that he was about to get the ball uh Caleb was about to go down turnover down it was about to be a turnover of downs and um Kansas was about to get the ball back and it was a one- score game and I remember walking

Over to Champ Kelly’s office who who you know obviously is the uh interim GM in Vegas right now saying I just saw something I’ve never seen a quarterback do before especially for a freshman quarterback it’s just that instinctive wherewithal some guys have it some guys

Don’t have it and he has it plus he has outstanding physical qualities that are going to allow him to excel in the league as well we were talking to Adam hog earlier on and it was interesting he looked at it from a a different uh risk management standpoint and just praised

How high Caleb Williams’s floor is do you concur with that that even with even as we get tantalized by all of the special stuff that if you draft him do you know at the very very least you have a good NFL starting quarterback yeah that’s that’s easy for

Me to say even if you um take away some of the special uh as long as you have conviction that he’s coachable I mean that’s the biggest thing we’re sitting here talking about tape and that’s just half of it you know you’re hiring you’re drafting the quarterback for your franchise you’re

Hiring the CEO for your for your team so there’s that whole other aspect of it so from just the tape standpoint from his ability to play Within the pocket all the different throws he can make the ability to extend plays he’s got very good pocket feel and very good

Pocket presence all those at a minimum will allow him to be a successful NFL quarterback Josh when it comes to to look looking at actual like in game and game situations how much weight do you put on that and how much weight do you when you talk to other people in The

Scouting world how much do they put on that here’s the reason I bring it up Drake May looks like what we’ve always thought a quarterback should look like but in some of the biggest games that North Carolina had this year he went away so I’m wondering how do you guys

Value any of that when deciding if a player can make the jump from college to Pro it’s enormous Lawrence I mean to me that’s what scares me about Drake may he looks he’s built out of a of a machine that produces NFL quarterbacks there’s no physical limitations from

Everything I heard he’s a great guy there’s something that just seems to be missing about a guy that can just lift the other 10 guys in big moments there’s two plays that jump like there’s little things with Drake May that you know I’ll reference a play against

Duke he’s in the pocket it’s a second down and 10 play he has a throw he doesn’t make the throw because some pressure gets in his face he does a good job of using his athletic ability to get outside the pocket he’s rolling towards the sideline there’s no where to go with

The ball so instead of just tossing the ball away he just runs out of bounds and takes a three- yard sack that is the opposite of instinctive and aware the very the fourth and 20 play vers Clemson that if we’re all watching the UNC Clemson game they’re down two

Scores very unlikely they convert that fourth and 20 but very rarely do you see the real dudes just heave the ball out of bounds and then just have that look on his face I don’t want to kill him too much because he is extremely talented the more I watch the more I’m

Concerned that he might be missing whatever that is that Joe burrow has Joe burrow is not the strongest armed quarterback in the league he’s not the best athlete there’s something about him there’s something about Patrick Mahomes there’s something about Tom Brady I just feel like it might be missing from Drake

May I could be wrong on that because again I’m studying film from North Brook Illinois I don’t have the luxury of spending time in Chapel Hill talking to coaches coaches may have explanations for these things that I’m talking about it’s just my gut sense the more I talk

To Media people about Drake may I feel like there more excitement the more I talk to people who evaluate tape for a living inside NFL buildings the more reluctance uh and the more hesitation I hear around Drake May’s name um I do think again you’re talking about a guy

That that doesn’t have a real low floor because of his ability to throw the ball vertically downfield he’s a good athlete for his position and he does show that he can play off script and create plays um when things break down so I do I do think

You’re talking about a guy that will be a successful starter in the NFL but are we talking about Jared gof or are we talking about Josh Allen or Justin Herbert huge difference he’s gonna fall somewhere in there I tend to lean towards the lower part of that from just what I’ve seen on

Tape and on TV yeah I think that’s the concern when it comes to Drake May Josh is is you know Ma Brown can sell ice to somebody living in the Northern Territories he’s he’s that kind of uh PR Savvy Coach and he’s always going to promote his players

That doesn’t surprise me that if if people talk to him they’re going to fall more in love with him but it’s funny because in being familiar with Mac Josh I’m also a person who watched Patrick Mahomes play in high school and a lot of that was being chalked up to him fixing

Broken plays and that was something that we had heard said about a lot of players in college too that was Manzel’s bread and butter as you know but then the flip the flip side of that too is the fact that that’s how you get a lot of explosive plays so it’s trying to

Balance all those pieces and figuring out what’s going to be the most likely scenario is that how you try to to make it happen in the NFL like how do you transfer those intangibles that we discussed to the NFL level seeing what you see in colleges yeah they have to be

Able to play on time within the system that is first and foremost and that’s what obviously Caleb’s going to have to prove to people that he is coachable um and for whatever reason he decided to turn it into to to one on1 football this year um all these guys have to be able

To pre-nap understand what they’re seeing host snap be able to functionally decipher the information they’re getting this is where Mitch really struggled and then be able to get the ball to the open receiver at all points of the game all quarters of the game it’s not always the

Defense is gonna win and when the defense wins and the X’s and O’s break down now you need a quarterback who can go above the X know get outside the pocket hang in the pocket and make those special plays so there is that balance and and when we’re talking about the

Best to do it in the league right now in Kansas City that’s why he’s so special because it’s on time it’s on time it’s on time and then when it has to be it’s not there I gotta create it he can go create it a lot of these other quarterbacks in our

League I’ll use Jaylen Herz as an example example who can create on his own and make special plays off Rhythm and and and and Off Script sometimes it’s too much and when it’s too much it leads to a lot of inconsistent football so there’s that balance there to answer your question of

You know they they have to be trained to play on time and within the system or they’re going to drive the coach nuts and it’s going to be too much about them trying to create on their own and that leads to a lot of up and down football

Deshun Watson had a lot of issues with that early on in Houston you would get these crazy 400 yard production games where like oh my God he’s Unstoppable and then and then the very next week it would be 180 yards and and they would struggle to move the ball because he

Wasn’t able to create on his own um consistently throughout the game so it’s that balance there and the special ones they know when they they know when it’s their turn to create the play on their own Josh I talked with a a college guy and a pro Personnel guy and they each

Talk to me about Caleb Williams and they both said not a bad guy but maybe some gray flags on him one have you heard the same thing two what’s relevant to an NFL front office when trying to figure out football character for a player especially for that position leader of

Men this more so than any other position on the field those 10 guys have to respect that hell out of him and he has to be the hardest worker on that side of the ball and if that is not the case those aren’t gray Flags those are red flags

That will bleed down so that is the work that is being done right now by not only the Chicago Bears but the rest of the league that’s looking at possibly you know that that could take this guy this high in the draft he has to have an obsession for

Football and those are the things that you need to find out because if he just likes it if he’s just punching the clock if he’s just a nine-to-five guy that’s going to be a major issue he’s got to be obsessed with it it’s got to be about winning Super Bowls it’s not

About Pro bowls it’s about winning Super Bowls and and the special guys in our league have that special competitiveness about him a a a term that I really like that I heard about Caleb Williams who’s been around him several times at several different USC prac practices is he has a he has athletic

Arrogance and I like that he knows he’s really really good that part of it in between the lines that is a must now it’s got to carry over to inside the building during the week because if the the other 10 players don’t see him working as hard as he

Needs to be working that’ll spill down and that that will prohibit him from reaching not only his ceiling from the team from reaching his ceiling so he’s got to be a he’s got to be a special worker obviously he’s got to be intelligent he’s got to be a great teammate

Selfishness to a degree um and and like I mentioned that athletic arrogance is very important because he knows he’s good he knows he’s great and that is extremely important when you step out on um step out them between the lines nowadays there’s a whole another level of research be going on right now

Because these guys are getting paid money right now so what are these guys doing with this money like some of these quarterbacks are making four five6 million dollar a year there’s forensic accounting research that needs to be done wow what what kind of habits are these guys

Getting into early on that could lead to major pitfalls in cities in in these huge cities they’re about to go to where they’re going to be given cart launch anything they want anywhere they go off the- field discipline all that stuff and so that’s why it’s not just your Chicago

Bears scouting staff that’s looking into Caleb Williams right now I promise you there’s there’s companies outside of the Chicago Bears that they have they have hired to to make sure they know everything about this kid his family who’s around him who’s going to be living with him when he’s in Chicago

Those are major major major issues um not only Kayla but for Drake for JJ McCarthy for Michael penck for Jaden Daniels for all of them um so it’s it’s not like I said you know 10 minutes early in this interview it’s not just the film there’s a lot more to it

Especially when you’re talking about this position because it’s the CEO of your building speaking of penex I had a pretty interesting scouting exercise that was placed in front of me and I’d been debating you know my my son and I had been debating the penic throwing

Motion for a while so he was like do me a favor watch this and he put together a super cut of penx where they fli the negative and it was penx as a right-handed thrower and I actually found it really helpful to adjust for what

My my schema is for for a passer and to say okay this is what it is were he a righty and take away my TBO images that I get sometimes and I and ultimately I said okay sometimes it’s still a little too whippy but it’s better than I

Thought it was like I needed to see that I know that you talk about red flags I know he’s overaged and I know and and very and hurt and two acl’s and shoulder and all that but there’s there’s definitely an NFL pass there no yes yes

Yes he is good um he reminds me of Tua um with that that left-handed not only that left-handed motion but um his game is defined more on timing and Rhythm and accuracy than it is on um athleticism and and creative playmaking uh 2020 I think it was covid

Year best game I ever saw him play sitting in my office how Hall you guys remember Jay Rogers our former defensive line coach Indian former Indiana quarterback he comes rolling into my room and uh in my office are you watching this and we’re watching uh Indiana play Ohio State neck and neck

I believe the game was 42 to 35 he throws close to 500 yards this is the Year this is the year Ohio State went to the national championship and lost to Alabama five TDS interception noisy noisy pockets and he is making throws down the field um and

Then it kind of you know the injuries kind of derailed his career set him back a little bit at Washington watching him play this year very very talented team on the offensive side of the ball they protected well um especially in their Pack 12 games against the level of rushers they were facing

Outstanding complement of receivers that will all be playing on Sunday some high-end receivers so it can look a little seven on seven at times um and and and some explosive games from him that were really impressive I really wanted to see Texas it reminded me of really wanting to see stad play against

Georgia last year and the way he played against Texas you take away the durability in the injury part because that is obviously a concern and now it’s going to be um you know a bigger wart that he’s going to be playing in in more congestion and getting hit more and all

That take that out of consideration he can play NFL football he can see the field he can make very quick decisions when he’s gonna come off his first read he did some really good things under pressure vers Texas where he was able to quickly reset his feet come across the

Other side of the field and fire the ball accurately down the field he can throw on time the one thing that he isn’t compared to the rest of these guys um he’s not now he’s not a stiff he’s not slow you know they even used him in

A handful of those QB um design runs against Texas he’s just not a high-end athlete and he’s got a lot of injury history it’s going to scare a lot of teams but there are quarterbacks um that are not as good as throwers um did not have as productive

As careers that went in the first round uh in the NFL draft I was really impressed by how he played especially in that Texas game um I know the the durability stuff’s going to knock him down a little bit and it should because he’s got kind of a skinny smaller frame

Two major knee surgeries two major shoulder surgeries um but he’s a football player and he can throw the ball Josh the more I watch Jaden Daniels the more impressed I am and I don’t know if it’s a product of him having so many starts but then you look at the way that

He’s built up and you go can he sustain over a 10-year NFL career what does the tape tell you so tape the tape yes you know and I told you this story on uh when we did the show over there at AMC um you know I saw him as a as a

Third-year junior at ASU he’s 185 pounds I said no way no way when I went onto the practice field would he be able to sustain especially knowing the style of football he’s going to have to play because it’s because it’s it’s arm and legs with him um he’s built his body up

To over 200 he’s one of these guys that doesn’t take hits very he doesn’t get hit hard a lot some guys just get hit hard um regardless of how big or small they are um I still have concerns about holding up durability wise um but the

Guy can push the ball down the field he can throw it I don’t think he like high-end instinctive like Lamar Jackson was but that’s the comp you’re going to get because of the electric speed I mean it’s instant speed he sees a little crease he’s full speed in five yards and

He’s he’s ripping off chunk play after chunk play I thought he really improved his play from the pocket probably you would say in as far as like processing decision making probably more on the on the average plane not not a a a red Flag by any means not a a highend strength um

He’s going to get drafted in the first round uh the number of quarterbacks who are excelling in our league with their legs and their arms continues to grow I personally think a lot of that’s the way the game’s being legislated and the way these guys are being protected um and so

I do think you know he’s got the ability um he’s obviously he’s got the time on task he’s another guy Lawrence though you know I remember when they were describing to describing him to me at Arizona State a little bit of Mama’s Boy ma mom’s a helicopter mom you know I

Don’t know that I heard a leader of men I don’t know if I heard he’s gonna grab you by the neck when when when you know when stuff starts going sideways and you need someone to take charge of the Huddle I don’t know if he has that

That’s the question teams are going to have to answer from a physical standpoint the way he throws it and he way he runs it he he’s going to go in the first round and and I think you told me that day you thought he was going to go in the top 10 and

Looking at the teams that need quarterbacks you know I I tend to agree with you the way this uh this this dra the draft slot is uh unveiled itself enough of all this exciting offensive talk the Bears have the ninth pick I think that they take an edge rusher here am I

Crazy look Dan is looking at me like I’m crazy in this draft you know it just I don’t think the receivers are going to be available the good ones I think they will you know they even though I think this roster is much further ahead than a lot of people think

It is um they will absolutely um stay true to taking the best player available you would hope Leela it was an an interior guy I don’t think it’s a real strong year for interior rushers um there’s going to be some good Edge rushers right there that between you

Know 8 and 12 um the the the Alabama kids best football is ahead of him Dallas Turner yeah yeah he’s got some stuff that makes you like whoa you just wish you saw it a little more often UCLA kid’s going to come down to Medical you

Know we had to take two years off because of a medical deal with his neck um but he’s got some special rush to him him and sweat would be too you know they’re they’re probably a little bit more similar in that they’re they’re they have the ability to be complete

Players they’re big strong guys not necessarily you know one super edgy Speedy guy um but they would complement each other pretty nicely obviously they’re going to need a receiver uh if Brock Bowers were to fall down to nine that U tight end position would be a a a

A very nice luxury for them them you can always add an offensive lineman the Bears are going to be in good shape they’ll be they’ll be a good player there at nine who if you had to take one of the two would you take between Bo Nicks and

JJ McCarthy oh JJ McCarthy why that’s JJ McCarthy’s got something special about him I I don’t think from a physical SK skill set there’s anything B Nicks that has over um JJ McCarthy I think a lot of B Knick’s production is a is a is a is a

Result of two things uh a lot of time on task playing in a wide open spread offense um playing in an unconventional offense up in Eugene um that is just going to produce a lot of numbers regardless of who’s playing quarterback JJ McCarthy has some special special stuff between his ears that

Dude when you need need to have it he’s gonna get it to you he has not lost a game as a starter at Michigan anytime they had to have a play he made it there’s some stuff on tape you don’t like he does not have a big

Arm um he’s got just enough size he’s got outstanding Mobility that is a leader of men that is a guy people follow and there is something to be said for that there is something to be said for that I think he has just enough of all the uh throwing

Skill set running skill set um to allow him to be a starting NFL quarterback and those intangibles those things when you’re always like why did that guy fall trust me JJ McCarthy there is something to that dude um that you just can’t teach he’s a very interesting

Person uh what he just did at Michigan’s outstanding the thing that bothers me most about the way he throws the ball it’s all one speed he does not layer balls in everything’s one speed it’s the same velocity he’s going to have to really work on that um as the windows

Get tighter and you got to drop balls into into you know smaller Windows um but if I’m betting on one of those two quarterbacks that’s not even close for me