Would Matt Chapman and Cody Bellinger block Chicago Cubs prospects? | CHGO Cubs Podcast

On this edition of the CHGO Cubs Podcast, Corey and Brendan discuss the hot new pitch: a splitter. Which Cubs pitchers and free agents have splitters and why is it a new trend? They also discuss whether Matt Chapman would block prospects such as Matt Shaw, and whether a Cody Bellinger long-term deal would turn Jed away because of Michael Busch and potential prospects looming.

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This is is the chgo Cubs podcast my name is Corey I am joined as always by Brendan we are coming to you on Friday January 26th Brendan welcome to the Friday edition of The Cho Cubs podcast we are not live sorry to our good friend Barb in the live YouTube chat if you’re

Joining us live on YouTube as always we’re reading the comments and questions if you’re joining us on your podcast feeds later hello welcome January 26 Brendan we are uh just a few days from the calendar flipping to February which means pitchers and catchers reporting is getting to be around the

Corner Cody Bellinger not a cub Matt Chapman not a cub more relief help currently not Cubs maybe I know maybe so we’ll see uh but the off seon running out of time and we’re still getting those reports Brendan that might be a minute for the Boris uh I think big four of clients

That Scott Boris is dragging along in this process but we do have some stuff to talk about regardless uh as it relates to the Chicago Cubs want to talk about uh the one newish rumor uh in the relief Market also a former Cub coming off the market David Robertson going to

The World Series champion Texas Rangers late on Thursday evening uh so we’ll talk a little bit about the relief Market as we expect the Cubs to still make some moves there we will talk about some of the other rumors the signing decisions the big decisions and I think

Touching a little bit on a a popular kind of call it concern or or you know talking point as it relates to some of these guys in terms of blocking prospects just the idea of that like what do Brendan and I think about that are would certain Cubs prospects

Actually be blocked in the way that people mean it we’ll we’ll we’ll talk about that because it is something I I I see get thrown around a lot and then uh a little bit of pitch doctor for you uh there was some discussion on social media and you know in the baseball

Community of is the splitter going to be kind of the big pitch in 2024 we’ve seen the pitching paradigms change of course throughout the years uh pitching up into the Zone low in the zone High Velocity what’s the new kind of like envogue pitch and uh I think it was Mike

Petrello from statcast who or mlb.com who was talking about perhaps the splitter being the 2024 version of hey let’s everybody try this this is where the game is going so uh first though Brendan I I do want to welcome you into the show here uh by complimenting you on

Your your your new or your I don’t know if it’s a new hoodie but I don’t recall seeing it on the air before well I’m hurt because I wore this hoodie you ready for this this is why this is what I mean when I say that you’re sometimes

Mean or hurtful I wore this hoodie the very first baseball game you and I went to and you have no recollection of that whatsoever okay now now hold on come on before I true am slandered here now that’s I’m not saying that’s not true what I’m saying and to add some color to

Our wonderful audience here the reason I don’t remember what you were wearing Brendan is the Cubs got shut out in an NLCS Game by Clayton Kershaw in the Dodgers on the evening that you’re referring to so I do apologize for not focusing on your for the evening but what

Happened two weeks later do you remember you know the Cubs winning the World Series World Series correct yes you know people do forget that they do forget that still a glorious time but yeah look at this thing man this is a nice hoodie because it has like some quilty texture

To it so it’s my winter jacket it’s freezing outside I need to put on a jacket and stay warm very rude coming from Streets of San Diego while the rest of us are freezing it was a BAL me like 40 in Chicago uh that’s not bad at all

Good for you good for you it’s 65 here great rezon go do a Padre’s podcast then you know like leave me alone uh but yes I I do apologize that I I don’t vividly remember your outfit the night the Cubs lost I’ll get over it so eventually that

Is the First Time Brendan and I met in person we had done a podcast uh for like a year a year at the time and had never met and uh met for the first time at a playoff game and because losing I think we said two words to each other so

That’s right and that’s the should that is key though especially for play uh you know we’re starting the show the Cubs aren’t doing anything so we’re you know messing around a little bit but I do think that’s crucial when you’re deciding who you go to playoff games

With uh for me in particular like for for my season tickets I have two tickets so it’s really you’re you’re going with one person it’s not a group it’s not a group thing it’s got to be someone who can read the vibe the the Cubs are

Getting shut out in an NL LCS game what I don’t want to do is like chitter chatter you understood appropriately and I understood for you just shut up we’re both miserable both nervous as all can be let’s just sit here it’s not even Mutual understanding I didn’t care if

You understood or didn’t I’m not talking to you I’m not talking to you yeah I’m sitting there doing my thing I don’t care yeah I I can see that so yeah when the Cubs do get back in the playoffs if you’re going to go or even if you’re

Watching it home I’m I’m I’m always interested that you know some folks can go to a bar or no have people over at their house like whatever whatever floats your boat but for me personally like I’d rather be locked in a room like experienc basically alone going to

Wrigley of course is unmatched and being around uh you know the fellow Wrigley faithful but truthfully I think I’d rather be like alone in a room where I can like shut everything else out I watched game six of the World Series series on mute I did not want to hear

Joe Buck I did not want to hear John uh schmuck scholz I didn’t want to hear those guys at all you know I know you know I he’s just you know yeah didn’t like that that commentary by him in the World Series but yeah that’s that’s how

I am yeah so we got issues there you go Brennan and I very good podcast Partners very good nerve-wracking playoff game Partners as well yes so yeah I hope you you all of you out there when the Cubs are back in the playoffs I I hope you

Have that person or people or if you like being amongst everybody let’s live it up uh one day the Cubs will get back in the playoffs Brendan but they may have to make actual Major League transactions to do so uh so we can transition back to the major league ball

Club for a minute uh and the so I think when we got on last week obviously Josh haer off the market didn’t really expect the Cubs to be in that market but the the connection was out there in some of the rumor Mills and things like that uh

David Robertson obviously a former cub and uh former cub and All-Star like Ron cumer there you go he’s off the market another guy who you know wasn’t like strongly necessarily attached to the Cubs but they were they were thrown in the blurbs of teams that were looking or

Checking in and stuff like that and then on Thursday uh I believe this came from Bruce Levine first and then Bob Nightingale reported it um the Cubs potentially looking at reliever Ryan stanik who has been with the Astros Cody Luke and uh excuse me Cody Ryan and I uh

Spoke on Thursday a little bit about this uh as they were playing their interview from Cubs con with Julian Merryweather so it sort of paired well talking about the bullpen again I encourage you to go to the Cho Sports YouTube page check out all the interviews that the Cho Cubs team did at

Cubs con with very good actual Chicago Cubs uh but I I was curious if you had any thoughts as as the the pitching guy on stanic uh in particular I know we’ve looked at a lot of the different relief candidates uh but one of the things we were talking

About on Thursday was just how that sounds much more like the path the Cubs may go than when they were uh you know in the rumors for Josh hater I even saw people talking about Chapman who ended up going to the Pittsburgh Pirates this type of thing seems more like something

The Cubs are going to dude to try to fill out this bull b yeah he’s 32 years old so he’s one guy because of the recent success in the age he is going to demand less money less resources if you will and he comes with a degree of

Uncertainty still last year 4.1 ER the year before with Houston he was lights out he had a 1.15 ER in 55 innings in 2022 what does he do well he throws very fast averages 98 miles hour upwards to 100 101 he’s unique in that he throws a

Slider kind of like a cutter but he also has a split finger pitch as well so he uses a splitter and a slider about 20% of the time each and then he finishes off batters up in his own with four seam fast balls so the slider that he throws

Is unique because you might be able to think about his his form of attack similar to how lighter was used last year and how lighter was used was using Splitters against left-handed batters as almost a reverse split guide almost as like a righty version of a lugie now you

Look at stanic I think counil can use him in a same way maybe stanic has issues against right-handed batters and the reason is because his slider only has about two inches of horizontal break it’s a little bit more of a tighter pitch and he lacks that ability to get

Wipe out swing and misses that maybe wineski can Showcase with that sweeping curve to right-handed batters and as a result maybe St it can be used against lefties there’s concerned about lighter living up to his 2023 year you look at stanic similar pitch repertoire in fact

He throws much harder but he still has that that split finger pitch that in theory should do well against opposite handedness and it gives correig Council an opportunity to maybe Bridge the middle of the game to the back end of the game if there’s a heavy Lefty

Portion of the lineup even mixed in with a few righties that otherwise a lefty would have problems getting out I like it he’s not going to be your closer per se the numbers in 2022 with that one era I’m sure is going to Peak everyone’s interest in a closer High leverage role

I wouldn’t count on that unless there’s significant changes and maybe ultimately the Cubs do see something that can get him back to that point but stanic does appear to be one of those pitchers that meets the Cubs checkboxes presumably inexpensive high ceiling with some recent success but the ability to mold

Into something even more than what you see yeah it’s it’s just I think the path you expect them to go um I’m fine with that yeah and and and like I said last week like I was never really interested in them I think making a move for

Someone like hater is is much more the type of thing you do when you are like the Astros you know really trying to preserve a a title group and make sure you have what you need to win the division again obviously they’re in the very tough division with the Rangers and

Get through the playoffs and and sort of sustain that like top level success Cubs aren’t there yet and I think that would have been kind of overcorrecting for what your problem was last year now at the same time I’m sure folks will say h you know it seems like another cheap

Like let’s just find like the cheapest way to go about this no it it’s not though because again if you look at his splits he had a 270 WBA against left-handed batters right we’re talking about a right-handed pitcher so just that split alone suggests that the Lefty

Value should sustain itself now what can you do to get more righties out can you maybe add in more break to that slider if you do then that type of potential it goes up at another octave because now maybe he can be in seventh eighth ninth

Guy it’s not a it’s not that much of a risk per se as it might appear on the surface of some fans you’re gonna get value out of them unless he’s injured if he’s signed by the Cubs yeah so I you know look this is just one name that’s

That’s newer to the mix I think there are I’m sure plenty of relievers the Cubs are looking at but it is an area I think the the more the more quality options and of course the degree of quality is going to vary the more quality options you can assemble for

Council and Tommy Hovey to put together I I think they’re ultimately going to come out with a bullpen that they can work with yeah uh especially especially if you can just get to the deadline uh then i’ obviously if you need reinforcements or you do find yourself

In a position where there there’s a specific need you need another Lefty you need another righty you need a flamethrower you need a Bonafide closer because that role is is undefined by that time then you can address that but I think the the first step is okay what

Did we learn from last year about everybody and the roles that they can occupy and how do we sort of reinforce that a little bit at least for the first portion of the Season yeah I it’s similar to the concept of the Michael former signing last season you knew at

Least you’re going to get some type of value out of Fulmer whether it be just eating Innings and outside of an injury Fulmer was a valuable part of this Bullpen towards back end of August prior to that injury when he went down all of us were very concerned given the bullpen

Stability at the time so I look at it similar to this and what I hope the Cubs do this go around sorry to cut you off there but what I hope the Cubs do this go around is that they leave enough of a pillow financially where unlike in 2023

You can go out in the 2024 trade day line and actually get one of those better projectable relievers and not this is not to say oh he’s a bad reliever but they’re there there is a limited ceiling and not get someone like a Jose quas alone but you get someone

Like quas and then some that way to forecast what you may need and have the resources available to actually use it yeah I mean I think Fulmer’s a a good kind of example of you can’t I like I’m not going to look at everything and the bullpen and just just go well it’s

Going to be better because it’s Craig counil but I I do trust him much more with that and I think that’s a good example like Fulmer ended up being a very valuable piece for the Cubs outside of the injuries and outside of the fact that they kind of tried to shoehorn him

In as the closer early on in the season and while he was struggling or not getting results they waited a bit too long to go away from that but once he was moved to lower leverage and had time to kind of find himself he was he was very effective for quite sometime for

The Cubs so again it’s not an area where you just assume oh well Council will make will just do it better but I I think either he might not have had him immediately as the closer or he would have put him in better matchups or pulled that is interest hold that plug a

Little quicker that’s how I feel if I’m wrong feel that way but I I do I just sort of have an implicit trust with Council in that regard you know when we when we look back at what Ross did one of the areas is I actually liked from

Ross was his aggression using certain relievers at times for example with Fulmer he had just developed that sweeping slider and he was getting results pretty fast and he tested Fulmer in high leverage eighth and Ninth in roles almost from the get-go a side of me liked that because I thought that was your

Peak value guy in the in the pen at the current time and so I was fine with that now if we compare Ross to council Maybe Council doesn’t put a Fulmer type player someone who’s developing a new pitch type with high potential in that position right from the GetGo because

You can make the argument easily as we’re doing right now that giving former the higher leverage opportunities in the midst of adapting to a new pitch type may not have been good for the short term for that Bullpen and they had Bullpen issues that was the one thing

That haunted them in what May or June of last year they had Bullpen problems and former was part of that mix part of those problem like on that trip to La yeah so I and he just want to gave up those some of those walk-off in game wi

Hits so that’s where I think the difference in Council and Ross will be I still think Council will be aggressive but I think he may not be as super aggressive as Ross was with some of these experiments on some of these pitchers and we’ll see what happens but that’s where I think their

Front office hired counsil because he has better chance of figuring that out sooner rather than Ross did yeah and so you know again we’ll see what happens on the relief Market I think stanic is is an interesting option um you know again I I don’t I don’t need them to commit

Too much money to the bullpen or uh you know bring in guys with Hall of Fame pedigrees I mean look all of these things would be nice but we are operating under the clear assumption that the Cubs have some level of a budget and that’s just not where I think

Those assets are best allocated right now and again that’s not to say they shouldn’t allocate some but I think these types getting more veterans getting guys that Tommy hotovy can play around with to add stability around the guys that were successful for you last year like alai Merryweather lighter and

Giving Council the ability to not use those guys every day because you have other trustworthy options you have other guys that can come in and pitch in a one-run game in the seventh inning stuff like that that’s I think the real key for this team not necessarily building

The best Bullpen of all time so uh want to take our first ad break here and then when we come back uh we’re we’re talking pitching we might as well keep it rolling with some of that splitter discussion uh but we’ll we’ll take our first ad break here and we’ll be back in

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Number a schedule a free inhome estimate today all listeners can get $350 off when they use the promo code chgo restrictions do apply see empiretoday.com chgo for details all right Brendan so want to talk about some of this this split discussion uh again I think it’s a good

Discussion for a day where you know we don’t really have new players to dig into or really substantial rumors at least as of the moment usual caveat in the offseason podcast things change quick so if this podcast is outdated at anytime okay yeah it is what it is sorry

But I saw this discussion uh again about the splitter kind of becoming perhaps the next pitch that every body kind of adop adopts we heard a lot about the sweeper last year you’ve talked a lot over the years about how the Cubs in particular are one of the teams that

Likes to throw sinkers up in the zone which was not always something that people were super interested in doing even thinking of other paradigms we’ve seen in the league within the last several years like you think about the launch angle stuff and you know how guys were changing their swings to get under

The ball hit more fly balls and focus on their launch angle because it was leading to more home runs guys like Justin Turner kind of completely overhauling how they hit and turning into completely different players so these types of things some I think are probably more call it transformational

To the game than others some really like the launch angle thing felt like it really took over like it really changed the game of baseball when teams started to do that and hitters started to do that sometimes it’s maybe not as significant or maybe a casual viewer wouldn’t notice the Imp

Like I I’m not so sure uh that you know more maybe like my mom and dad like they probably heard you talking about uh sweepers a lot but like I don’t recall my mom you know being like Oh I’m you know like just talking about sweeping

Curveballs all the time like I don’t I don’t think that was a thing sliders actually but yeah yeah right sorry uh I don’t listen to you when you do those breakdown I can tell I can tell um but I saw the discussion of the splitter so I

Want to sort of frame the conversation of why this particular pitch uh might be something we see more of in 2024 and then having you kind of look at are there examples on the Cubs that are already doing this or that people can kind of think of when we’re thinking of

This and are there candidates on this team who possibly could adopt one and maybe uh turn this into a thing so like I said the discussion kind of coming from Mike petrello uh who’s over at mlb.com believe he was with uh statcast or baseball Savant I apologize to Mike

If he listens to the show but he’s ml.com now Advanced stats guy a great follow on Twitter so I’ll I’ll seed the floor to you to talk a little bit about uh the splitter potentially becoming the big next big thing in 2024 well there’s still a lot of unknowns with it there

Was discussions about the splitter over the past year and a half Japanese pitchers typically use Splitters more often than American players I think kodai senga opened up the eyes to many different players like wow that pitch is getting so much uh uh whiffs is very effective I want to use that for myself

For for me it wasn’t the first person that I ever saw throw it but for you oh Tanaka Tanaka when he was coming over that was when I was working for the Yankees and so obviously i’ seen a lot of Splitters so the the first when I

Think of Splitters two guys come to mind the first guy is Jeff Samara uh Jeff Samara when he was right now s a m a r d z i g j a not g i get the g j in my mind mixed up no we’re gonna give that to you

Thank you I appreciate that when he was at his best he was using Splitters like crazy I forget which year it was but he started using Cutters more and I’m like what are you doing this is before the whole pitch lab all this stuff and as a

Result his whiff rate went down the value went down but his splitter was so good and he was getting so many whiffs before that’s the first guy I think of the second guy with the splitter I think of is Kevin Gosman Corey Kevin Gosman it’s a good it’s a good reason to

Bring him up in this that’s why you wanted to talk about this I knew is a hidden agenda folks of course so I I believe one reason why Gosman wasn’t uh sought after even more than he was is because teams are trying to project starting pitchers in the future and for

An ace like Gosman who uses Splitters as his dominant secondary pitch there isn’t much of a precedence so if you’re trying to project a pitcher three four five years in advance who do you compare him to and the list is very small that’s where I think there’s a lot of hesitancy

Because in Major League Baseball the list of of pitch having success with Splitters is very small but it does not mean the pitch is ineffective there’s been a history maybe a a stereotype if you want to call it this but Splitters mean maybe uh uh injury prone given the

Pressure you put on your on your arm by splitting your fingers quite literally you know I’m sure Physicians will have more to say about that than than any of us but the reason Splitters are going going to gain more popularity is because of their recent success by Gosman by S and the greater

Understanding that hitters are going to adjust to the current way of pitching they’re already doing that the sweeping slider did get hit a little bit more in 2023 and the ability for starting pitchers to go deep into games I think is going to start to rebound at least

The way I think about that and maybe the four or five in first we’ve seen maybe we want those guys to go six Innings and the way to do that is you have a pitch type that can offset platoon splits as well so with a splitter you can offset

Platoon splits if you’re a right-handed guy going against lefties lighter was one guy who did that last year and stanic who we were just talking about currently does that that’s where I think there’s value to this particular pitch in contrasting a splitter versus a sweeper let’s say you have the best

Sweeper versus the best splitter that best splitter is likely going to be more valuable against both right-handed batters and left-handed batters as a bulk the best sweeper one of the best sweepers in the league is Hayden wisneski he may not be able to start right now because he doesn’t have a pigo

Against left-handed batters he can’t throw that sweeper against left-handed batters that’s the value of that pitch who won the Cubs could develop that it it’s such an unknown that’s the thing I think certain guys will be very hesitant to TR it and if I were a pitcher 28 29

30y old pitcher there’s no way hell I’m trying that I’m not going to risk that unknown in my stage of the career where I think the splitter maybe tested a little bit more is just earlier on in development in double a single a perhaps but giving guys who have had a degree of

Success a new pitch type in the form of a splitter I think it would be difficult to allow the pitcher to trust that pitch then again if there’s pitchers who are on the uh Fringe of their careers they may be willing to try it out but I don’t

Think it’s going to be like a a snap of your fingers how it was for sweepers because you had to literally just change the way the teams were oriented or Chang your grip and that was it Splitters is a whole new ball game so I think it will

Take some some time and it’s to be determined how how implementable it is for a lot of these uh picturers can you for I mean and really for the the YouTube audience as well but I think it’s especially for the podcast listeners uh and I don’t mean to imply

That they don’t know this if you do please ignore but you know sometimes just trying to explain stuff could you just describe describe a splitter to me as we’re talking about this how does it move how does it compare to other pitches paint paint a little bit of a

Visual to folks who maybe aren’t completely able to visualize what what is a splitter what does it do uh imagine a pitch is coming out of a pitcher’s hand okay it looks like it’s coming at you and then it disappears and it goes straight down that’s what it’s

Like a it’s a ghost looking type pitch and so for Splitters and it’s usually thrown with the speed closer to a fast ball yeah so it it’s it’s a deceptive pitch against a four seam fastball even maybe sinkers as well given certain deceptiveness the the way you can think

About this is let’s look at let’s look at Hendrick’s change up he has two change UPS he has a change up that tails with like 15 in of of um armide run then he has a change up that almost looks like it’s a relative cutter that just

Drops the question is why does Hendrix use a cutting change up in a in a tailing change up it’s because the offset handedness and that cutting change up will actually not Tail as much those split depending on how you actually throw it might be able to then

Offset some of the the the opposite handedness that you see and to your point yeah it going to look like a fast ball uh in the case of lighter he only had about six inches of horizontal break so it wasn’t it wouldn’t generate as much run as you might think and then you

Look at um kod ienas his his splitter just go straight down man his thing his splitter doesn’t have any any armide any armide break and it allows you to then maybe not sacrifice as much like V off off of it if if if you want to think

About it like that but it’s more of a just a deceptive pitch uh it’s harder to read given the the way it spins out of a hand versus a change up and it mirrors a fast ball in theory more than a change up would okay and so you know you were

Talking about how you know it it may be a difficult pitch to implement I do remember seeing you tweet something about Drew Smiley who was at drive line is that what he’s working on or something else yeah he’s working on this uh uh split looking cutter thing and

That’s really what it is the the movement profile on that that is crazy so Smiley has Smiley’s an outlier in every sense of the way a picture is described uh he throws a a curveball that is basically his dominant fast ball you want to think about it like that but

He lacks a pitch to get more whiffs and they’re trying to throw this new pitch to increase the probability of getting whiffs and you can think about this maybe being effective against right-handed batters in the same way a splitter has been effective for lighter against left-handed batters so if he has

You know if he’s leading with a sinker or a knuckle curveball to right-handed batters he doesn’t really have anything that goes the opposite direction relatively speaking that go that will go down and for a smiley maybe he’s uh going to develop that pitch and he would

Be the one to develop that crazy looking pitch and that’s interesting because you know something we were talking about the bullpen too like and I’m not sure what I necessarily expect like obviously going into this season uh you know Drew is going to be 35 in a in a few months but

He was good for the Cubs as a reliever like he’s someone who like until I just mentioned this did not really remember that he was on the team uh no offense to Drew Smiley uh but 2.51 ER once he switched to being a relever 28 Innings like you know 216 batting average

Against as a relever like he was pretty useful if he can develop another pitch that sort of allows him to find more success in that like okay I I mean I’m intrigued at the very least yeah I mean you’re going to have more depth on the splitter that’s what you’re trying to

Create you can think of a change up is having you know good separation from foram that splitter is going imagine you put steroids in a baseball for a change up that’s what a splitter is you’re G to have more depth to that pitch that’s best way I can describe it so it’s just

A very difficult pitch to throw I mean you’re throw in ler a baseball by releasing within the two inside part of your fingers versus a change up for some guys it’s more like this where just letting to go off different pressure points on these particular fingers so

It’s it’s I love when you do the pitch grips yeah well I’m I a pitch grip guy to be I’m a visual learner so I can tell yeah yeah yeah you never listen to anything I say but if I put up a if I put up a graphic you’ll pay attention

That’s the reason why I make graphs absolutely just to keep just to keep I just want to look at pictures and videos I can tell I can tell no one ever used to read sports illustr they used to look at the pictures and that was it yeah and that’s why they had

To fire everybody that works there yeah sad um all right well that’s yeah I mean it’s interesting I mean we’ll see exactly how that happens and of course you know as you’re saying it’s not the most easy thing to implement for a lot of pitches but I do think it’s

Interesting like I said especially on an offseason episode where there’s not too much going on I I could read from you John Heyman just uh you know shared another post over at the New York Post where it’s the same blurb about the Cubs that we’ve been reading

For every single day for the last four months you guys ready for this they were interested in reys Hoskins who’s the Milwaukee Brewer they’re still interested in Cody Bellinger who’s the most logical fit maybe they would be interested in Matt Chapman too isn’t that exciting I I do Wonder are these writers

Doing this he he would have had to have added the reys Hoskins note but like I wonder if they’re just like copying and pasting the stuff about the Cubs from the beginning of the offseason it’s the same thing I mean there’s I’m numb at this point I’m numb

To all the reports so what I was saying though is I feel like that’s a good opportunity to you know just take some time to look at something like that and if it does come to pass that it is more common as as time goes on or you see

Pitchers starting to talk about it or develop it well then perhaps you’ll remember that on the on the chgo Cubs podcast you had a little primer for it well in advance I I will I will say like I know a few pitching coaches so I was

Talking to him about the today and I texted one of my friends I’m like hey you remember when I was talking to you about how the Cubs are throwing sinkers up in his Zone like four or five years ago and how you like kind of talk down

That idea I’m like look look at this now and he’s like yeah I’ve been actually working through my own pictures to do that now I’m like okay so four or five years ago you’re talking down on this gossip now you’re doing it too and across the week There’s been an

Increased trend of sinkers from right-handed batters up and in to or from right-handed pitchers up and in rightand of batters and they they’ve been doing this for five years Tommy hoty were a loyal listener of this podcast D they could have been ahead of the game years ago listen I my very

First article that I wrote for chgo was titled are the Cubs at the Forefront of a sinker Revolution this is two years ago and now we’re just hearing about this today we’ve been on this for two years the Cubs have been doing this since 2019 even before the pandemic the

Moment Tommy HBY got higher they start they started to do this Kyle Hendricks basketball up in his own they had success even with Alec Mills aleli was doing this prior to developing the cutter uh they even unfortunately didn’t work but they tried it with Zack Davies

Did not work there but this is what they do they had success with Marcus strowman having sinkers like that and Javier’s now the new poster child of this so they have had success immense success for years doing this yeah all right so we shall see uh when we come back we’ll hit

Our second ad break here and then want to come back for our last segment and un yeah talk about some of those same rumors but kind of with the bigger picture of the idea of blocking prospects just a loose conversation on thoughts on that and we’ll we’ll go from there but we’re

Going to hit our second ad break here we’ll be back in a couple minutes okay so I was watching the chgo Bears today Corey they were at Mid to Athletic Club in banck Bur I saw those videos I I hope everyone got a chance to see those

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That’s all those like football field looking things they got out there for cross training they have group exercise courses they also have the best tennis courts and programming in the sport they have indoor outdoor tennis pickle ball and paddle tennis that is USA professional quality all the way

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More information visit Ray cdjr in Foxlake or Ray cjr.b all right Brendan uh uh let’s let’s finish up here uh and I say finish up like you know sometimes I say that we end up talking for another 4 hours later yeah we’ll see um I I I am

Curious just to get your general thoughts so even going off of that latest hmon blurb like it’s the same players we’ve heard but you do still hear the connection to Matt Chapman you did still hear the connection to reys Hoskins though that did obviously die down after

The Michael Bush trade of course the connection to Cody Bellinger and one of the conversations that I think we’ve seen a lot in our YouTube comments or on social media there there’s kind of I think maybe not exactly two spheres that Cubs fans exist in there’s probably more

Than that but if you were boiling it down to two there’s I think a side that is basically sign great players I don’t really think much beyond that and wait a minute don’t block this position because we have XYZ person coming up in the system and you don’t want to make a

Long-term deal at those positions so I I guess just like generally how do you feel about that notion because I guess putting it to you clearer my my instinct when I hear that and of course every Prospect isn’t the same every free agent isn’t the same every contract isn’t the

Same there’s a lot of nuance here but my initial reaction to that is the Cubs having too many good players that either people have to play out of position as we’ve seen them do a thousand times or you have to trade people or things like that that I that sounds like a wonderful

Problem to have and in the short term not getting good players because someone might need to play Third Base in a year or uh something like that not really how I would operate so I’m curious when when that part of the discussion comes up how do you generally feel about it I

Understand fans perspectives who are concerned about blocking prospects I do the way I would phrase their concern is that they would think that for example by by signing Matt Chapman then you decrease the likelihood of getting value from let’s say Shaw and as a result Shaw

Would not be able to go through the necessary adjustments because he’s being blocked by Chapman now the counter to that point would be well you can trade Shaw if that’s the case the counter to that counter would be well you’re not going to get Peak value from Shaw

Because teams will not trade much for that’s not really what my immediate counter would be my immediate counter on if we’re going to get into the specifics we might as well talk about the Cubs in the specifics right we don’t have to be General about it but if we’re talking

About Shaw in particular one there’s legitimate question as to whether he stays at third base I’ve read that since they drafted him every Prospect person I’ve looked at asks that question if he has the the staying power at third base specifically yes that that’s true yeah not that’s not my Scouting Report that’s

What I read from people who have watched him or are watching him in the in the miners of the complex or whatever the other thing I would say is you’ve got the DH you have first base you can put guys at different positions and the likelihood that that specific scenario

Comes up where it’s like well Matt Chapman has to play Third Base so sorry this great prospect that we drafted and are excited about you have to sit on the bench or we have to trade you I just feel like that is not likely to happen

It always reminds me and again it’s it’s they’re not all the same but it always reminds me of the too many shortstops discussions that everyone had in 2014 2015 like that area with Torres Russell bz and like that didn’t it didn’t really happen that way like of course they

Traded glaber because they had the Surplus there and Castro too to make the move right but even Castro that I forgot cash he was in the he was one of the Short Stops right he was the short stop when the conversation started about having too many Short Stops and then

Before that I was Tero but in but in even I’m ignoring that even like in that scenario were they all all stars from that point on no a few of them became unplayable even in the league so like when they needed to move when Javi be became the better player and deserved to

Be the shortstop they switched him they switched him and Russell when Castro was inconsistent and they needed to make decisions they traded him like I I just don’t think that specific concern to me in general is a reason not to make the 2024 team better at the current moment

Their third based situation as you and I talked about last week to me is a mess it’s a mess for a team trying to seriously you don’t trust Nick magal no compete for a playoff spot but like does that that like that means you can’t address that now because

Matt Shaw might need that position in six months a year two years like I I don’t think that makes any sense now granted I I I do think it is it a wise decision to sign Matt Chapman or someone like that to an eight-year contract of course not that’s but the contract

They’re if they were going to bring him in the contract they’re comfortable with is going to be a few years probably you can move him to a different position you can do all sorts of things I don’t always like to relate things to the 2016 Cubs but I do like talking about them

Because they won the World Series I think I have a hat behind me in front of my guys these are my guys by the way if anybody’s watching on YouTube these two gentlemen back um they they have seen a lot of Cubs baseball they were around in

Like 2004 and they they still have a smile on their face good for them it’s great uh but I do I do have the Hat here oh okay what do that say World Series champ got it yeah but like you look at that team Ben ois played 50 positions

Wilson conteras was in the Outfield like Chris Bryant was playing The Outfield at points in his career started right field in the 2015 wealth sometimes you just need to make things work I I of course you don’t want to lock up every position with a five to 10e deal of yeah there’s

Obviously scenarios where you can literally block players by the way you’ve spent money but that is not the position that the Cubs are in and even some of the guys they have under contract like every to me when when that’s the concern you don’t have to love Matt chamman this doesn’t have to

Be about Matt Chapman like specifically necessarily but you see it even with Bellinger where people are like well they if they’re committed to Bush at first base and PCA needs to play like where’s everybody playing like this and this you have to try to win now you

Can’t m not make moves to me under the assumption that all these prospects are going to work and they all need a place to play but more over than that when you look at this Cubs roster you can’t find anybody on this roster that doesn’t necessarily need to play 162 games and

Play those 162 games at the exact same position every day come on Ian half can take a rest if you need to put somebody in the Outfield or somebody needs to DH Bush at first base is completely unproven he he has to play every single day there’s no possible way to make a

Rotation of Cody Bellinger PCA and Bush between first DH and Centerfield work I don’t believe you I just I think it’s it’s it’s become too much of a concern for why the Cubs in particular should not make the current team better because we have to keep this space completely

Clear for other guys I I it’s just not the way I see it make the team better now deal with the uh the crowded room later that that that’s the better problem to have Brendan isn’t it yes I think if you reduce it down that’s the

Way to do it it’s not a bad thing in our example of signing Matt Chapman for a threeyear deal if Matt Chapman’s a four- win player and you’re concerned about Shaw because Shaw and his limited playing time is doing so well Hallelujah right that’s what I’m saying God and

Then you can figure it out so lucky yeah and the the way just to add to your point and by the way I was Playing devil’s advocate here I would sign Matt Chapman today I have my Cub checkbook right here I sign i’ pay for I mean even

Even like from my perspective I’m I’m speaking generally like in a vacuum just kind of as a like of course there specific situations where this is true now you know when we were in the studio today I talked to Brian and Cody or excuse me in the studio on Thursday I

Talked with Brian Cody about like Bush getting traded from LA because he was blocked and I talked to you about that and I was like listen when the Cubs have Mooky bets and Freddy Freeman and even Max Muny who was playing a lot of third

Base for them you let me know okay when they have Freddy Freeman and Mooky bets and those are the people blocking the positions you guys give me a call okay because the Cubs do not have those players right now the irony in that is the Cubs acquired a prospect who was

Blocked by giving up their best left-handed pitching Prospect and their Dodgers were able to get maybe two immediate high value low prospects and that’s valuable so if that’s the case for the CBS if they can land we should start blocking more people is that what you’re saying ex blocking more people

But it also requires a front office that is capable of making those moves right so this all comes back down to even the front office executing their plan and making the trades that allow the prospect pipeline to continue to progress while also sustaining Major League value for years to come I also I

Also sort of you know I think back to the difficult situation that PCA was put in last year when he was called up obviously being so young and having to make those adjustments in the middle of a playoff race and not just a playoff race a playoff race where every single

Game was life or death for the Cubs at that time you know you talk about wanting a soft Landing for these guys and the ability to integrate them into your lineup or into the daily routine of things as you see best fit some guys it’s going to be playing every day some

Guys it’s going to be playing specific handedness matchups whatever it may be to best acclimate them to the major leagues to me having solid options around these guys at similar positions allows you to do that because then you don’t H it it is not sink or swim for

All of these guys like I if they were to give the job to Matt Shaw out of spring training that is a lot of pressure and I’m not saying that’s going to happen it’s just an example like that is a lot of pressure because we at least you and

I feel and some others feel the options at third base beyond that are not enough for a playoff team so if he doesn’t come out the gate and just kill it uh oh everybody and and honestly like at the moment it’s it’s a similar situation for Bush who’s playing first base if he

Doesn’t work out mvis you just did the same thing with him you you provided him with garbage backup so when he failed it was a big problem for the team so like I I don’t know man I think having good players who can take some of that time

And be sort of a an insur insurance policy or just kind of leading the way at those positions I I think it’s a good thing but I don’t know the cobs have had success with this exact scenario they acquired Miguel Montero and in doing so had a three-year $40 million contract

Commitment to M Montero 2017 mcky complains about J ketta being slotto home plates Theo uh and and Jed decided to cut migy and pay the rest of his 13 million AV that Year and have Wilson contras take the Reigns who was at the time locked in 2016 by David Ross and

Miguel Montero and they still to your point they made it work right like kind of like yeah he was blocked in a sense but he caught he hit like that time we I think here’s the thing I think sometimes we zoom in on trying to maximize player value and I

Understand that but I want to maximize team value and the way to maximize team value is to offset risk while also still having the ability to reach a high threshold of value the way I think about Matt Chapman is the defense this this needs to be emphasized here he is a

Generational defensive third baseman Cory I’m talking one of the best talented third baseman I’ve ever seen you bought into this I really have I’m emotional over this I like I like going through the progression of our conversations and kind of being able to pinpoint those moments I’m like oh

Brennan’s convinced himself of this like I did I convinced myself like five days ago yeah and but back to the Chapman point the you just just watch the video and I put out the side by side of Nick magal and Matt chadman not to diminish magal who was valuable but Chapman is

Truly a third baseman he plays 15t further back than magal does and as a result he can go all across the Zone the reason that some of the Zone metrics were magical were higher than Matt Chapman is because they were tracking based metrics where they just take a

Target and they see how magical moves the reason that in some cases Chapman let’s say was less valuable is because Chapman is playing in a position at third base that no one plays so your ability to track probability is skewed because no one plays there if you look

At DRS and uzr he’s among the best and has been among the best for Seven Seasons so that right there already gives you a high floor value like we talk about Dans B Swanson and the hitting value the potential value even if Chapman’s a 325 waiting on base

Average guy if you want to just project that sure kind of like Dansby it’s a three four win player right there and he has some of the best hitting metrics from a Chase rate from a batted ball quality perspective as well as contact rate hits the ball hard hits it frequent

Doesn’t Chase so formula for Success now the reason why I bought into this so much is because as the offseason is going along the dollar signs in my mind keep dropping and I think there’s a scenario given the widespread projections going into the year for Chapman’s contract

That the Cubs might be able to get him at a three-year deal for like 22 25 million per year and given where we are in the off season if it comes to a fourth year I may be willing to do that because the options are off the table

Reys Hoskins has gone bush is all over the place in projections despite confidence going into the year with him he is the shest bat arguably the shest contract Cory even above Bellinger on the market right now sure yes I want that contract I want that player on the

Cubs given where we are right now yeah I look again it’s it’s not all Apples to Apples and I didn’t necessarily mean to present it that way I hope I didn’t but I think just as a general philosophy I think the amount of times that not making certain moves

Because a an unproven player in some cases who has never even played at a the major league level needs to occupy that same position when do you think sha would good I don’t think it’s a good way of operating right in your mind when would you consider Shaw projectable that

Can give you value consistently seriously what year I I I feel like you know best case scenario maybe comes up to hit toward the end of this year but that’s crazy slot him in to be a consistent hitter 2025 Maybe yeah at minimum okay you you you can’t you you

You you have to give him time to see how it goes minimum and even 2025 you’re is probably not realistic right so 2026 but hold on stay with me here before I back so 2026 then you are on SE Suzuki last year you’re on Ian haps last year you’re on

Niik horer last year and now you just wasted that window yes you just wasted that window that’s and I do want to be clear I did say this but like part of really why I feel that way is you have to 2024 is an opportunity to win yeah

Man and saying well we can’t make the team better in the immediate because of XYZ okay but like I I but this is a each opportunity to win is precious and I think thinking always not never you know but always in this like future oriented mindset like

It’s just so risky I just don’t think it’s necessary I think again the amount of times that a a prospect is truly been blocked like where they’re like we literally don’t have anywhere to put him we have Allstars at every position or he’s a great defender but we don’t have

Someone to how often is that really happening I I just I don’t buy it and of course things happen but like it’s even a recent example like if the Cubs had decided and to be fair they have not had good center fielders until they sign Cody Bellinger and put him there but had

They been not doing anything in the Outfield or center field because they were saving it for Brennan Davis like Brennan Davis got hurt it’s very unfortunate and unfair to him as a person but that’s life that’s baseball and that’s not even someone who came up and didn’t produce he he hasn’t even had

That opportunity yet because of these injuries and how far they’ve set him back so it’s just it’s just to say like if you’re sitting there forecasting like no no no we can’t sign an outfielder we can’t sign a center fielder because that’s Brenan Davis territory you can’t operate that way man

Like let’s stay on let’s stay on this thought process in in 2015 would have been a bad idea for the Cubs to sign a a 30-year-old third baseman to a 10-year deal of course they had the top prospect in baseball playing third base is that what we’re talking about with any of

These other guys of course not you know was already debuting in 2015 too so it’s like it’s it’s like I’m saying going into it so I’m saying like yeah of course when you have the top prospect baseball and he needs to play Third Base should you lock up that position for a

Decade of course not like yes that would be an instance of blocking a prospect and not really having good logic to do so but that is that’s not what we’re talking about they wouldn’t sign Matt Chapman to that long of a deal they’re not going to block the entire team

Yes I digress I feel like I’m repeating myself but I but I I that’s that’s just how I feel to me it’s just like I I don’t care about blocking prospects basically I don’t think it’s actually happening I like where you are in your thought process right now because this

Is this is what I’ve been trying to say for like a year now so let’s go back you said it’s risky to assume that Shaw is going to be valuable given some of the timing on these other contracts then you went to 2015 saying well Chris Bryant

Who was not the third baseman 2015 but he was right there so it was a bad idea to give a 10 need to work on his defense yeah of course you [Laughter] did and then you mentioned Mt murva situation those are three good examples those are front office executive

Decisions that had extreme consequences in both good and bad the Cubs in the front office in 2015 they hit they made the right decisions by allowing Chris Bryan tring to come up relatively fast with Russell and to get the highest win percentile from their projection in 2015

That was the right move now let’s fast forward to the Matt mvis situation they missed on mvis by in their minds going into 2023 leaving the opportunity open for him to be valuable because there wasn’t a confident projection for him but there is still a possibility he

Could be valuable so what they did was let’s offset that risk by getting a free Eric cosmer and stting try manini to a 7 million annual average value and spread it across two years that proved to be an an incredibly horrible decision that has long lasting decisions even to this day

That has led to now trading for Michael Bush and leading leaving the Cody belinger situation a little bit more money mddy but ultimately in 2023 if you want to reduce it down and it’s not to say this is the exact reason among multitude of reasons but they missed the

Playoffs by one game they missed it by one game and I don’t think we really talk about this enough because we said so many times if they miss to play us by one game I’m never going to forgive this and ultimately what happened was they

Missed a playoff by one game to the NL pennant winners and in the process accumulated negative4 War across several of their bench players and now Matt mvis is not even in the picture for 20 24 they really missed on that and where I’ve been really concerned over the

Course of this offseason is a front office ability to truly truly capture the risk for the next two three years in a way that that affects their current operation and where I’m concerned for the front office is what we’re seeing right now where they’re making moves having a better in

Their process and their projections a better confidence than what’s actually based in reality and I feel as if sometimes some of these moves I’ve seen in the past two years decrease my confidence in that process because they’ve missed a lot right and I’m worried that if they do this again where

They’re weighing the future and miscalculating the potential value that we will look back in 23 in these windows but damn you know they didn’t they really missed on that again that’s why I am inclined to sign Matt Chapman and maybe risk some development for Matt Shaw sure but I am

More inclined to at least lockin value for 24 and 25 and that is what I’m willing to risk and I think that’s where the front office will have to Define themselves for the next few years in decisions like those yeah it’s it’s an interesting discussion and and

Like I said there’s Nuance to it each Prospect isn’t the same each free re agent option isn’t the same and of course as a front office you have to have conviction in certain things if you believe a prospect is going to be that person and things like that you have to

Act that way like there’s certain directions that you know there’s a fork in the road you you have to pick one you have to be convicted about a lot of these things and sometimes they’ll get that right and they’ll you know clear the way like you know we said like of it

Was an easy one but like you cleared the way for Chris Bryant it worked out really well for you there’s other times where that’s not going to work you clear the way for a prospect and you wish maybe you had not done that or you had supplemented that position uh throughout those years

Because that Prospect didn’t pan out or whatever the reason may be so but to me get as many good players as you can possibly have and deal with that problem when you have that problem for most teams especially because of injuries uh the you know guys needing rest the DH

Position being at it it I I really don’t see it being as big I just don’t think it’s as big of a concern as it seems to get mentioned I mean I think I think it is the amount that that idea gets talked about and I think worried about far

Outweighs its actual significance in real life yeah I agree I agree I don’t think it’s like a non nonf factor I think you I think you can make the argument by getting Chapman you will reduce the Reps for certain prospects that is that is a potential possibility

But I don’t but I’m in my mind that’s that’s that’s such a a low probability risk so I don’t I don’t care about that if that happens sure that’s what I’m willing to accept by signing Matt Chapman I mean I mean like man you know like where where are our expectations

Here are we see that’s what that’s exactly what I sort of about to say are we are we in the bit are we trying to win championships or are we trying to make sure we have the the the exact perfect spot for someone who’s 19 years

Old I’m like I’m like losing my I feel like make the team better deal with it later I feel like I lose my mind sometimes like some like sometimes do we see what’s in front of us and do we get lost in numbers I’m I’m seeing this as like a

Numbers guy but the the comparison of value that magic brings versus Chapman is UN laughable the St I want to say this very clearly right now we did a whole thing on it last week I didn’t I want to do it again okay because stuff has come up and

Again good for Magical super nice guy great interview and everything right but it’s it’s to put him in a conversation with Matt Chapman is unbelievably flaw it’s really like we need to have a third basem with project cable value magical as a Defender alone because we’re very interesting outs above average is

Ridiculous you put Matt Shaman and Nick mreal at the corner with equal setup positions and I hit a 100 Balls to them who’s making the more plays you think Nick magical is gonna out defend Matt Chapman like really and on top of that you think that Nick magal is going to outslug Matt

Chapman who in the world is is thinking that these are um some people really think that that Nick magical should be the third base I don’t think he could outslug you but uh thank you I appreciate that um no I put it that’s where our expectations need to be raised

A little bit I I I hear you yeah I hear you he can be a fine bench piece I don’t want to hate on the guy but like we’re comparing him to Matt Chapman that’s how we Fallen as a society when I was looking at that in particular I’m like

Listen it picture it it’s game seven in the NLCS there’s two outs Muki bets hits a ground ball to Third Base you tell me which one you feel more confident Fielding the ball if if you if you take madal by all means live your life that’s

Fine in no way shape or form is that how I would you know when there’s a ground ball hit to Danby everyone says oh I can relax you know it’s going to be to be fair like this is this is also true of everybody else they have at third

Base Mor put anybody there none of them can adequately play position in my mind again that’s clearly it’s not dissing the work magical did I’ve eaten Crow I said he couldn’t do it I I I said on these Airwaves he could not play adequate average Major League third base

And he went out and proved me wrong I’m not taking anything away from him but it’s to it’s to your point we have to be raising the standard here are we trying to win a a championship or are we trying to shine up every little thing that the

Cubs currently have to justify it being part of the MLB roster or like needing Le let’s let’s not get lost in the defensive numbers too let’s consider what outs above average captures let’s consider what DRS captures UCR captures and let’s use our eyes okay you’re going

To end up you’re going to end up writing like the definitive dissertation that takes down some of these defensive metrics simply to prove this one point I got worked up I was texting Cody I was brilliant where did you come up with it I just couldn’t believe it’s I got like literally like

Aund tweet responses about out above average last week and again we just have to consider what the information is providing us and for for magical it’s a marker it’s a proxy for Quality CBS coaching positioning magical where he was closer to the infield grass that’s what it was and he performed

Exceptionally on those hard hit balls to him closer to the grass look man and uh ultimately and I’ve said this before and we can start to wrap up here cuz you and I are getting uh delirious I think you can sense it but I’m just getting pissed off

Man this pisses me off all of this goes back to the same thing I think everybody who’s likely listening to this especially if you’ve made it this far in this episode we all want the same thing we want the Cubs to win championships we

Want them to be one of the best teams in the league now everybody certainly is not going to agree on how to get there and how to sustain that success etc etc but I think where Brendan and I are and we’ve gotten there over the last few years and how

Things have operated and turned out of course in terms of the outcomes I I I need a more serious effort at this exact moment I cannot I can’t take not making this roster better doesn’t matter who the player is I can’t take not making this roster better because we’re we need to

Save the space for a prospect that is a year or two or sometimes even more away from setting foot in the major leagues let alone showing you that they belong there and kind of proving the whole thing I I can’t get on board with it they have to act more serious than that

And and I’d also caution for those of you even in certain situations where you want them to not sign people you want the young guys to come up and start a new window etc etc you want to know how we end up back where we’ve been the last few years you

Put all your eggs into the basket of 19 and 20 year olds and if a couple of them don’t work out good luck to everybody because you’ve sunk the whole thing into it you have to as you just you pointed out a few minutes ago Brendon like you

Don’t have everybody on this team signed for eight years you have a couple of them for two or three or four more years like treat this window seriously and I promise I’m sure of it you can come back to this video if I’m wrong I’m I promise

If they have so many good players they will find a way to make it work and that would be a wonderful world for all of us to live in that they have Bellinger under contract maybe Matt Chapman under contract they extend say a Suzuki Owen Casey is the Rookie of the

Year Matt Shaw is right behind him where is everybody gonna play I can’t wait that sounds wonderful it sounds wonderful sign me up for that one question I have for you before we sign off here and this is probably a bad time to ask this question I’m gonna do it

Anyway great uh Chapman and Bellinger the first question is do you think it’s a possibility they sign both and two if it’s not realistic in your eyes who personally would you rather have well I know like when you look at some of the projections I know that they tend to be

Kind of close or closer than I think people might expect so they lay it out Bellinger for 2024 his War projection is about 2.5 for Chapman it’s 2.7 I’m taking Belling um I want the left-handed power I believe in the changes that he made I

Like the athlete that he is uh you know obviously they’re both good Defenders but I’m taking Bellinger so you’re taking Bellinger seven years 180 yeah I’m taking Belling in three four years for 20 million per year yeah okay yeah that’s what I’m gonna do uh possibility

They sign both only if it falls into Jed’s lab yeah I think you know again like to me if if and I think the order matters like if Bellinger were to go elsewhere of course that increases the odds of Chapman if Bellinger comes to Chicago

First and they get that done you know of course the order of things matters in in these decisions uh but I think you know look if you end up in a situation where Chapman is perhaps considering a market like strowman was a few years ago and they’re open to certain deals with

Options and things like that yeah I I think Jed is interested uh unfortunately as we’ve discussed the the front office being interested at a lot of guys if they can get a Bargain Bin deal on them it’s a risky strategy and often you might find someone who is willing to

Shop outside of the Bargain Bin for those guys so you don’t get that that doesn’t ever happen it’s a nice thought I’m sure Jed would love to sign everybody on a one-year deal for whatever annual value or and things like that with an option or but you can’t do

That so I I think the the the odds that they sign both probably increase as the offseason goes on but one of them and likely it would be Chapman would have to be sorely mistaken on what they were hoping to initially get in this market

For that to happen I thinka I think it’s the other way around I think I think that Chapman’s contract of three to four years between between 20 to 25 million is going to happen versus Bellinger I think the range is wider I think it could be a three-year deal

Heaven he heavily weighed with incentives and and opt outs or it could be a seven-year deal between 25 to 30 plus million I think it’s possible the market shapes out in a way that Boris and and in Bellinger may take a three-year deal 30 35 million opt out after three that’s

How I think he falls into the cups and I have a hard time this is a whole new tangent but you know whatever it is what it is I have a hard time in my mind thinking like Jed that he would give 170 to 200 million let’s call 170 over seven

Years to Cody Bellinger despite the great year he had in 2023 because Jed has shown a risk aversion and the reality is that Bellinger in 2022 had a WBA of 280 the previous year was 235 the worst in baseball the reality is those are two seasons that are part of the process and

I know that Jed values Bellinger he likely thinks 2023 is more the realistic version of him but projecting a Bellinger version of himself five six years from now 30 million per year it almost appears that that is the least type of of player at jedwood approach

For that type of contract so I would imagine that the likely outcome is given the the risk aversion uncertainty the likely outcome is a high defensive based short-term contract with offensive potential in to for Matt Chapman I think Chapman is way more probable if you get your mind in the head of Jed

Hoyer perhaps yeah I mean we’ll see um I don’t know I would like to sign both we’ll see I would like to sign both if that happens I change my mind about a lot of things yeah can you imagine can you imagine Chapman Dansby Nico Bellinger PCA comes previous

Discussion I’m really sure there’s plenty of room for everybody I can play center field sometimes while PCA is getting his legs under him dude if that’s the can DH Bellinger can DH off at first if that’s thei I’m getting emotional thinking about this if that’s the infield Chap and Baler on the corners

With you get that infield you put PCA man in Center so I guess well you know maybe Bellinger’s dhing in this situation Bellinger is a great defender so I’m not you know I guess if we’re just going for defense what do you put seya at DH sure that’s fine Bellinger

PCA in right field PCA in Center Bellinger and right field whatever yeah then you teach the entire pitching staff to throw these Splitters and you just see if you can win a championship by never allowing any runs I think it’s a great idea you know that’s you that’s

Your uh bench coach experience that you had in the Dominican Republic showing itself right there that’s your experience but man that would be that would be unbelievable that infield I I I need that in my life I need I need that at Saturday at 1:20 pm Fridays at 1:20

Pm turn on the Cubs game those are your Defenders I can’t I cannot imagine anything more beautiful than washing that defense honestly I need it hey I’m here for it uh we will see what happens as always if news breaks the chgo Cubs team in some form or fashion will assemble

Live on the chgo sports YouTube page as quickly as possible I’ve I’ve pointed out before I think the Dansby deal the Craig Council Deal the Sha imanaga deal I believe we were live within 10 minutes of all of those to break it down and and have a discussion and get the live chat

Going so if something does happen we certainly hope that we would be your first choice for an emergency podcast a live reaction uh and of course you can find that at the Cho Sports YouTube page team will be back uh next week so don’t forget to turn tune in next week uh Luke

Cody Ryan back with you on Monday we appreciate your support of CHD and all things going on we appreciate your support of the chgo Cubs podcast Brendan and I will’ll talk to you next week which by my math Brendan unless I am incorrect it’s going to be February

When you and I next speak to our wonderful listeners you count on your fingers to do that I well I had to pull up a calendar because I don’t know what I’m making sure I I I legitimately don’t know what day it is so I I thought it

Was you know you got issues how have you survived this long I really don’t know counting on your fingers don’t know what day it is you’re all over the place I don’t really need to know what day it is half the time I think I’m talking to like a

Squirrel your eyes are all over the place in uh well I mean that do you want to like diagnose me with like add on the air or maybe I don’t know I don’t want to judge but just saying yeah so Brendan and I we be back with you in February uh

Next Friday we appreciate your support as always if you don’t mind if you’re watching on YouTube hit that thumbs up the like button on your way out if you’re listening on your podcast feed we appreciate those five stars and reviews wherever you get your podcasts we will

Talk to you next week and as always go Cubs