Herb Howard from Its The Bigs joined the show and battled it out with Adam Hoge on the debate of Justin Fields vs the comparison to Lamar Jackson. Is it a fair comp? Tune in and hear the fiery debate on the CHGO Bears Podcast!
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Where are you at if I can ask both of you as Demarcus Walker’s tweeting out see look yeah at that guy in Baltimore who won an MVP and is about to win another one in Lamar Jackson who’s our DraftKings player of the week Justin could do exactly that I did you have
That thought at all I mean Bears players are tweeting it I completely aligned I I tweeted a very similar tweet I get it but like the dude’s GNA be a two-time MVP yeah yes he is do you know how many people got in trouble thinking that their quarterback could be
Tom Brady during the Tom Brady why can’t my quarterback be Tom Brady this Tom Brady six round pick that’s foolishness but at some point it’s also foolishness to think Justin Fields no it’s not can be Lamar Jackson stylistically yes he absolutely can there are no throws on the field biolistically I’m talking about
Realistically I’m talking about realistically there are no throws that Lamar Jackson can make that Justin can’t they can both make outstanding amazing jaw-dropping runs and make athletic plays but he doesn’t what do you mean he doesn’t he doesn’t do what he doesn’t do what Lamar Jackson does he doesn’t throw
He doesn’t play for the Ravens is what he doesn’t do he doesn’t have that type of infrastructure that type of play calling that type of talent around him not an OC that leans into what he does like Justin Fields has made plays that only he and Lamar Jackson maybe Josh
Allen maybe jayen Herz Maybe Patrick Mahomes can make like that it’s that kind of rare skill set and people refuse to understand that there’s more than one way to win a football game everybody’s like it’s got to be 350 yards passing and four touchdowns no it doesn’t it
Doesn’t have to be that way you just have to win the game there’s lots of ways to do it Justin skill set certainly allows you to win football games talking about all the guys that are that are so much better like Justin Herbert everybody’s like he’s he’s certainly
Better than Justin Fields okay and what he’s B Justin Fields he’s got a hall of fame wide receiver he’s got a Swiss army knife and a running back he’s got two potential Hall of Fame pass rush on the other side of the ball and they suck
Like like win the damn game that’s all I’m saying I I I’m really happy that I asked this question it just sparked a good little cross listen I’ve been waiting to have this conversation I well good especially with hog because hog is one of the very few people whose
Football opinions and Minds I respect at such a high level and I’ve told him that plenty of times but as we’ve gotten further and or closer to this decision that needs to be made I’m like I can’t stand hog like but the because it’s it’s a it’s a result of watching his tape
Which I’m I’m literally a half a way of getting through the second Vikings game for being done with my entire rewatch okay it’s he regrets this year man he did and and I don’t I don’t disagree with what you’re saying sty istically potential potential gets people fired
Sure and they fired Luke gety because he didn’t unlike that potential it’s just insane to just assume because of the tools Justin Fields has that he can be a guy who’s already won two MVPs and it’s not insane to assume that Caleb Williams is going to Hall of Fame well I’m not
Assuming he is yes you are no I’m not I’ve never said that once I’ve said that I think his floor is is extremely high and when you factor in the fact that you reset the rookie clock the the downside it it’s his floor that Brad was just talking about too it’s the
Floor that makes me feel safe that at worst two or three years down the road you’re going to be where you are with Justin fields and that’s what I’m saying I’m I’m safe with Justin floor you already have that guy there are other problems on this team quarterback isn’t
Your problem Caleb Williams might be better than Justin Fields this is what I’m saying Caleb Williams might be better than Justin fields and for the sake of argument I’ll even give you that he’s better than Justin Fields I don’t agree but I’ll give it to you okay it doesn’t change my point that
You already have a quarterback that you can win the Super bowl with you have other problems you have other needs go address them I do not walk away from bears losses and say oh if we had a better quarterback they would have won that game in three years in watching the
Bears lose I haven’t W left those games like if we had a better quarterback we’d have won I’ve said a lot of different things about reasons that they lost but not that reason you look at stat she like oh he only threw for 175 yard so
What you can win with that if you choose to win with that you you do get though I I assume that when you say that you can win a Super Bowl field I mean that is a big leap you’re make you’re making a big ass freaking leap for anybody sure Lamar
Jackson ain’t won one yet for anybody it’s a big leap say he can go win a Super Bowl okay I mean but Lamar in his second season yes 36 touchdown passes wonderful 3,000 Plus yards unanimous MVP and he deserved it and he deserved it yeah and he’s going
To be the MVP again and he deserves it right yeah I mean and he just took his team to the AFC Championship game with 150 passing yards when everybody says you can’t have a quarterback that throws for a buck 50 yes you can right but play
The game that way I I hear you but I mean I just think it’s almost like ju Justin is is is is going to be 25 years old this year Lamar is 27 I mean he this is this is a this is a guy who’s had an unbelievable start to his career that
That Justin just hasn’t had I think he plays for a much better football organization the Bears are trying to turn into that okay they’re trying to get that way I just don’t I don’t think that that kid is the problem I think you’re forgetting that Lamar Jackson’s
Wide receivers for most of the time he’s been there been been pretty bad yeah they’ve been very bad I’m not I’m I agree with you it’s been mostly about the tight end as his number one target for sure so I I just but again and they
Fired their OC last year like I there’s much more evidence that the success that they’ve had there is because of their quarterback just being good for having the MVP yeah I think the Bears quarterback is good I don’t think they’ve utilized him I don’t think they’ve put him in advantageous there’s
No question that’s true there’s no question that’s true right so just do that and he’ll be fine and and I think you’re right literally in any other situation except we have one pick yes and Caleb Williams is the Hall of Famer no I’m joking with you come on but
Supremely talented right that’s right but but that’s every time someone says that like I like yes 99 out of 100 situations I would roll with Justin I think he has done enough but this is the one this is the one exception it’s not just that you have the number one pick
But it’s the number you it’s who the kid his well let me ask you this question would you do you agree that it’s a bigger Gamble bigger gamble for the Bears and Ryan PES who would who’s going to get more time bringing in a rookie quarterback talented dude at the top of
The dra would you say it’s a bigger gamble for the Bears to stick with Justin I wouldn’t give him more time if Justin goes to said other team and explodes like I I’d be pissed especially if Caleb comes in he struggles like and I think that the Bears have positioned themselves with
The Mont sweat contract with Cole KT’s contract with with DJ Moore’s contract you’re trying to win this thing in the next two or years so maybe the kids ready to do it four or five years from now you you painted a scenario where yes you look that okay Caleb comes in
Struggles Justin goes off and takes off elsewhere okay yeah sure but but but think that’s a biger as bigger gamble that’s all I’m saying but wouldn’t you agree that the odds are much greater that Caleb comes in here plays at least somewhat well and Justin goes somewhere
Else it’s going to have to he’s there’s no guarantees even get get to be a starter like I don’t now now there are 32 quarterbacks better than him but it’s a great it depends on the situation he goes to I’m just saying it’s a greater risk all I’m saying is it’s a greater
Risk for the Bears to pass on a guy who could be a supreme Talent the thing that sucks about this whole thing is that herb I agree with everything you’re saying with the one thing I don’t agree with is that maybe his ceiling is Lamar Jackson but I think assuming that he
Would just be Lamar Jackson even if he was in Baltimore is not giving Lamar Jackson enough I’m not assuming that and I’m not trying to disrespect Lamar Jackson he’s phenomenal he’s like top tier like generationally speaking I get that I’m saying that style of football which is clearly a skill set that Justin
Also has you can win football games with and the narrative that you can’t in this this day and age you can’t play football that way the hell you can’t yes you can well and that’s not what I’m arguing I I agree with you on that I think that the
Bears should have and can and and honestly will can if they keep Jus they will win more games that that’s not the that’s not the debate here to me it’s just it’s a it’s about looking at any position that you’re trying to upgrade on your roster sure and looking
At what your best options are with with cap space with money with all the factors included and I I honestly think if this was any other position that we were talking about it would be an absolute no-brainer um to like like let’s say braxon Jones is not in a situation
Where you have to pay him like a huge a good let’s say if he was like you were like we got to make this decision on braxon Jones but generational offensive tackle who’s definitely going to be the number one pick is right there for you and you
Could just draft him right now and he’s you know there’s a de he he might need a year to acclimate to the NFL or it might be Joe Thomas Joe Thomas is there yeah or he might just literally start every game for the next 10 years right like
Like that’s a no-brainer decision you you you drafted number one guy so and that’s kind of why I hate having this discussion so much like it really comes off like anybody who’s all of a sudden becoming a Caleb Williams supporter is instantly being labeled as a Justin
Field that part sucks I love Justin I’ve Loved Justin since the moment they drafted him I’ve said that I love the fact that he’s on we say on Twitter yesterday he’s in the facility working jquan brisker is retweeting saying that’s my I think it’s a Nuance conversation that allow people don’t
Want to have don’t want to have Nuance conversations on Twitter that’s not what Twitter is for don’t bring your Nuance over here like save it for the show yeah so cuz like I I want nothing but the best for Caleb Williams wherever that kid goes I hope he reaches his full
Potential and he becomes a Hall of Famer like no I’m not even playing like I really hope the kid reaches his full full potential I’m just saying that come September I think the Bears will be in a better position if they’ve got Justin Fields Marvin Harrison Jr DJ Moore Co
Kat than they would if they had Caleb DJ and and hopefully you got Rome sitting there for him at nine or whoever else that like I just think collectively the picks everything else I don’t think the quarterback is such a big problem for you I don’t think you have a quarterback
That you cannot win with so you have to go somewhere else we went to the Super Bowl with Rex Gman right we thought we can go to Super Bowl with Miss trabis but you’re telling me we can’t do that with Justin fields and we have to
Replace him and that’s the only way we can get there I don’t believe that right but they didn’t win the Super Bowl you you’re talking about I mean look at what’s going on right now the Kansas City Chiefs have won it twice yeah all right well because it’s freaking hard to
Win it they’ve had because they got Mount Rushmore they that’s right but they’ve been they’re but they’re in the conversation every single year because of that so the Bears would be drafting Caleb because they think they’re drafting someone of that ilk that’s why that’s that’s what I’m saying like fact
The fact that y don’t think it’s crazier to think this kid is going to be on Mount Rushmore than it is to say you can win with just that’s but could be great I’m talking about and Rogers and Manning or whoever like like it’s not but they’re taking a
Big swing they’re going for it I mean don’t you don’t you applaud that sure swing for it PA I mean you better be right but yeah you better be right because the the moment somebody utilizes Justin properly he’s going to be phenomenal yeah the problem is on the
Other side of that if if I I I don’t disagree with you but on the other side of that if keep Justin and he’s the same guy this time next year and and Caleb Williams just won NFL Rookie of the Year and you passed on the last two rookie of
The years that’s probably worse that is worse okay I’m just saying that’s realistic I don’t I don’t I don’t disagree with that you know what I’m saying I look at CJ stra like that dude is balling you know what I mean like but I think he gets a pass for CJ stra
Because this this situation it seems like it’s the same situation yeah it’s not the same situation cuz you didn’t have 13 more games of tape to evaluate on Justin no and at minimum he he improved in a couple areas which was he took care of the ball better most mostly the
Second half of the Season sure overall though he really didn’t take a step forward otherwise we’re not having this conversation I’m not disagreeing with that either right I’m not I’m not I’m not going to sit here and argue with like facts and you all the statistics and the fourth quarter numbers and the
Turn I all I don’t deny that all you say is true on those things I’m simply saying there is a way to win football games other than this traditional way that we seem to be set on like we can’t play any other way it’s not true all you
Have to do is win this week’s game whatever that requires is what it requires if we run it 40 times we run it 40 times if we throw it 40 times we throw it 40 times don’t tell me about your system tell me about your roster
And then tailor game plan to make them most successful agree which brings us back to Shane Walder exactly that’s why that’s why it’s here which while I’m I’ve said it on this show I’ve been saying it all along I do think that he can work with both of
These quarterbacks I also look at the West Coast style offense and I find it hard to believe get he gets it out maybe I’m wrong and I’m sure he’ll payt a different picture whenever he talks to the media because he’s going to say he can work with Justin they’re they’re
Going to take that thing up until the trade or whatever if I could have been you know a fly on the wall that interview I have a feeling that when asked the question which of these two quarterbacks fits your scheme better he’s going to say the quarterback that
Gets the ball out faster and has much more evidence of of timing routes and things like that you see that’s that’s like the interesting part of it to me right now because I feel like I’m a step slow on strategy and these things and how to play how these things get played
Out so but just talking it through on the show today it just seems to it and maybe I’m wrong too but if it feels a whole lot like Caleb just that that that’s his strategy but I would have said that about any West Coast system I
Got it like like like and that’s the problem with Justin is that honestly L cuz I agree with what you’re saying her I do think if you bring it like and Greg Roman probably would have done that sure and by the way he’s just never going to be the quick ontime quarterback I’m
Saying he doesn’t have to be right but he might in this system is the problem and for the record I probably not probably not but I just think like you just like so I I’m with you I think it’s definitely like every time somebody asks me what I would do I’m on record
With that when they ask me what I think it’s a about to happen I think they’re about to draft Caleb Williams right right and fine I’ll root for the kid and hope he brings the Super Bowl here right I just don’t think that your quarterback
Is such a big problem that you have to go that way when you have another path I think that you look at like the Brock perties and know Brock P’s better than Justin what the he’s not like put put Brock py and soier field with that Bears team in that off offensive
Coordinator he’s not going crazy or you put Justin out there with Debo and George KD and iuk and and mcaffrey like just I’ll tell you one Aon Justin’s definitely better when he is a wet football to handle oh Rock P didn’t seem to know what to do with that he admitted
It too Brock’s taking a big left turn here at the end of the season and into the playoffs for just as we wrap this up for the today’s conversation it I’ll say it again in my ideal utopian World they do it with Justin I think it’d be I think it’d be a
Much more fun wholesome cool story if that happened I just don’t think that’s going to happen yeah but I’m not like get that out of here you know like like that’s not that’s not how be either or and I don’t I don’t like how Twitter
Turns it into that like either I if I BRS yeah if I love Justin and I hate Caleb and if I love Caleb I hate Justin now it’s not true like I I love Justin and I want the absolute best for Caleb and I think people can feel the same way in Reverse like the May
27 Comments
This actually has to be a hard choice. There's something to be said for personality and likability. And loyalty which the business side of the NFL knows nothing about.
You have a NEW OC, JF plays the same as this year, gets 8 wins, no playoffs, JF gets run out of town, no high draft compensation for him & lose out on CW. JF will be on a 1 year prove it & see. Would HATE to pass up on another CJ Stroud. Hope Bears know how to evaluate QBs 🥴
Herb is so correct here.
I hate when these non athletes that never played NFL football talk stupidly
Of course Hoge is the negative one. He always has to be on the bad side. Even when Hoge says something positive you can see he catches himself and immediately says something negative.
Herb has a point. You can’t win with just a great QB. Why get a QB when we have a good maybe great QB? Get better pieces offensively and defensively. Make the whole team great. Not just one position.
😂😂😂😂 hodge hates jf1 herb is my guy
Hodge I love jf1 but get rid off him 😂
So nobody gonna bring up that the bears were actively tanking in JF second year. Can’t compare his second year to Lamar
Call we please get Bears podcasters that know football? I’m tired of golfers thinking they know what the heck they’re talking about!
I hope the Ravens win this week, for Herb’s sake. Because that point that there’s so many ways to win a football game is true, but the most successful way historically has been proven to have a QB that can efficiently distribute the ball into the hands of as many of his receiving options as possible.
get em Herb
JF came into the league on one of the worst teams in the league with the worst offense, no offensive line, no appreciable weapons. Year two, new head coach, new system, no weapons, no offensive line, and a OC/HC that did not know how to use him, did not trust or believe him, and did not know how to do in-game adjustments. If Patrick Mahomes had been on the same team that JF was on, he would not have made the team any better. Once Flus started calling defensive plays, new weapons were brought in, the defense improved but OC still did not trust JF and then he got injured. JF has established himself as a generational quarterback in the running aspects and has improved as a quarterback overall. You cannot trust JF's numbers because he was always under duress with a terrible 0-line and a OC that did not know how to use him.
I'd rather trust the opinions of ex-players who are now analysts over talking-heads that has never played in the NFL.
I’m with Hoge. Fields regressed this season. He’s always been graded on a curve because he plays hard. Draft Williams and move off jf1
Herb has literally no clue what he’s talking about. Hoge watched the tape. Herb watched YouTube highlights.
it’s crazy to say the “traditional way” of winning with a quarterback isn’t the best way when the Bears have been doing the opposite of that since forever and only has 1 superbowl to show for it lol saying Fields can be Lamar is just wishful thinking at this point. they play way more different than the hot take people are making it it seem
This is inane
I like J Fields, but 3 years in I think it’s safe to say that if we still can’t trust his throwing ability at this point, it’s worth trying out someone else. I agree with Hoge. Any other year when we don’t have the #1 and a historically good prospect, Justin is a no brainer, but passing on this opportunity to run it back with a guy we don’t even know can process an NFL field at an average pace let alone get the ball out on time seems like too big a risk. It’ll be worse if we pass on Caleb and he does well while Justin fails or stays the same than it would be if Caleb struggles a bit his first year and Justin improves somewhere else, imo.
PREACH HERB!! Offensive line (specifically middle of line) is our biggest need. NO qb will excel with pressure up middle every snap
Herb #1 JF stan. Stop disrespecting Lamar.
Herb says football opinions from Hoge he respects then BUT. Which means he doesnt respect his opinion. He cannot provide real reasons for this magical Lamar comp.
Hoge is arguing logic, Herb is arguing emotions
Why are people not talking about Justin's slow footwork and elongated mechanics that are still throwing off his timing going into his fourth year? Getsy knew this and did not call quick passes because of it. Is this something in your fourth year that can be corrected? Waldron will be running a timing-based offense.
Team Herb represent
JF1 is H1M. They need to build around him. There are so many needs that still need to be addressed. C/WR2/WR3/DE/3 tech and maybe S – BoJack replacement
The Blazers drafted Sam Bowie because they already had Clyde Drexler. If Poles believes Caleb Williams is better than Justin Fields, you have to draft the kid.
1:11 Lamar doesn't throw for 4000 yards either…matter of fact their stats look pretty similar except for 2019…and we can conclusively say that Greg Roman is a better OC than anything Justin has had