How are the Utah Jazz suddenly so good?! | Thinking Basketball #246

Is Will Hardy making a push for Coach of the Year? How are the Jazz suddenly playing so well? Are they going to make the playoffs and bump Golden State or the Lakers out? We discuss Utah’s white hot month, coaching adjustments, and the all-time legendary team the Jazz remind us of.

#thinkingbasketball

Think you basketball podcast my name is Ben welcome back to the Utah Jazz hour that you knew was coming that’s what everyone at home was thinking all years the Utah Jazz are are going to get an entire podcast episode on the thinking basketball podcast we can sense it we

Knew it when they were like 6 and 20 it was just it was right around the corner um some people might be wondering why we’re talking about the Utah Jazz because if you are a standings Watcher you may have noticed out of the corner of your eye that they have passed the

Golden State Warriors and the Los Angeles Lakers and they’ve moved into the playin position and that may have when I say corner of the eye I mean like it may have caught your attention you may be thinking huh that’s interesting the Jazz there that that that’s a cute team um Cody the Jazz

Have a plus seven net rating in the last month they are stomping people and taking names they are white hot what are they like 15 and four in their last I think we should get I think we should just start the show with this basic piece of information about what is happened in

Utah the Jazz started the season with a record of seven and 16 they are now 21 and 20 they have gone 14 and4 in their last 18 games in the last month we keep track on thinking basketball.net for our Deluxe patreon subscribers we track the trends of the

Last month Utah looks like one of the top six teams in the NBA in the last month so we we got to have an emergency meeting we got to figure out what’s going on they’re blowing out the Denver Nuggets they’re blowing out your Milwaukee Bucks first it was cute they

Were blowing out bad teams and then they just started blowing out good teams and uh we had we’re going to talk about how good they are what’s happening is Will Hardy the greatest coach in NBA history should they just stop the season right now and give will hardy all the awards

And all this for a 20 and 21 and 20 team but how good could they really be can they keep this up can anyone slow them down Cody how you doing there’s there’s so many directions to go in this podcast today because there’s players Ben that

Like in the last cuz I I’ve immersed myself in jazz world right immersed myself in jazz World okay and before you go I just want to remind people who are like we’re talking about the Jazz I’m going to convince you Cody and I are going to convince you at the end of the

Show that the Jazz might be the most fun team like if we had League Pass rankings right now the Jazz are my number one League Pass ranking te they were like 21st before because will hardy is interesting and they do some fun stuff but this team is wild we’re going to

Talk about it Cody I pass it back to you I just needed to get that out there like this team is not just good they are fascinating number one that’s a bold Proclamation like this better like this who’s better to watch you know what I’m

Not going to do this off the top because unlike you right now I’m going to take a measured approach to all this but I will say in the like in the NBA league pass player Power Rankings there’s at least one guy that’s like all catapulted his

Way into the top of like the Cody mustat players we’ll get to him at some point here but a matter of business I’ve called for this from the good members of the state of Utah and no one’s gotten back to me on this how do I refer to

People that live in Utah cuz like Wisconsin you come from Wisconsin you’re wisconsinite okay come from Minnesota you’re Miss motan Utah I’ve been saying uton like you just take the word uton put n at end are you a uton is that right or is there is there something is

There something else that I’m missing and no no one’s told me so from now on this episode you’re a Utah and that’s just what I’m going to go with well according to the there’s a website where you can like look up information it’s called Google and yes and according to Google

It is uh uton that’s what they say yeah oh yeah up as a joke no your instincts were your your your language your linguistic instincts were spot on I guess it could be called utahan as well but this uton is what this says so yes the people of

Uton so yeah the the utans are very lucky because they have a very interesting team that they get to watch right now and and honestly I I don’t know what side of the ball is more fun for me to watch because I think will Hardy’s offensive like the flow the

Brilliance he brings that we’ll get into in a second is just it’s it’s masterful some of the ways that you see players doing reach like wow you guys have covered this quite a bit but defensively like the way that they like know the Personnel of the the opposing players

That they’re coming up against it’s unreal how much preparation that they that they have for like a regular season game and I know some of it seem like it might be like an easy enough adjustment but in like the you know the long regular season to be able to make some

Some of these adjustments before like a single game it it’s nothing less than like spectacular watch like the Jazz just bring something new every night that other teams usually don’t in the context of a regular season slog so we’re going to talk about why uh why this is happening what’s going on with

Them and then in a few minutes we’ll we’ll really nerd out and get in I want to know this player who you can’t stop watching I want to know what country he’s from um but like the the the basics of what Cody just said here Utah looks in the last month really

Good they’re the eighth best offensive team in the NBA and the 11th best defensive team and as we’ve talked about it’s very rare right now to have teams with that balance where they’re really good on offense and they’re really good on defense I think as of uh a week ago

The full season results for that like three teams Oklahoma City Boston and maybe New York whoever we were talking about as the third team uh or both top 10 in offense and defense so Utah part of what’s happening is the offense has been much better and the defense has

Been much better they are really good at home am really interested to see how this trend goes because early in the year they were struggling they just they would fall apart on the road and this run that they’ve had there seems to be like no difference between home and away

Like when they spanked your bucks Cody that game was in Milwaukee they went to Philadelphia Joel and beadless 76ers they blew them out um they’ve had a ton of Road wins as part of this stretch some against some not so good teams so if they can actually get it together on

The road for the entire season they’re already really good at home they’re they already look like a top 10 team for the entire year at home and they just have this massively upward trending Street right now I think the first place to start is with the lineups and tinkering

The lineups Will Hardy has been tinkering the lineups throughout the year and I think he’s found some pairings and combinations that have really changed stuff with the team and and the guy I want to land on right away is uh the Italian Legend Simone fono who

The J Cody the Jazz are eight and one in this lineup they’re running now with Simone fonio in the starting lineup this is a change in the last month um yeah let’s just start there that everything seems dialed in in terms of pairing players together so you get the right

Amount of shooting on the court you get the right amount of playmaking on the court we’ll get into Hardy’s spacing and X’s and O’s and then the right amount of Defense Chris Dunn is also starting the resurrection of old Chris Dunn and he gives them sort of this defensive

Prowess uh in the starting lineup as well so it’s enough positive Defenders enough positive ball handlers and creators enough Shooters and spacing and he almost plays like two units they go 10 Deep they’ve completely removed ton Horton Tucker from the rotation it’s like a hockey team the first unit comes

In the second unit comes in and it’s just destroying people and it’s the lineup construction the the like way that he spreads out minutes per game kind of reminds me of like the 2014 Spurs like off the top of my head I don’t think any player on that team

Averaged over 30 minutes per game and right now I think there might only be two guys on the Jazz that are over 30 minutes per game and if it isn’t two it’s like really close to that and beyond that like the amount of guys averaging over 20 minutes per game over

15 minutes per game like you said it goes 10 11 deep and ton Horton Tucker lands in that Bunch but he’s been really sporadic like you said I think he hasn’t really played the last few games after starting quite a few games before that and being like uh a common guy that’s

Been in a lot of lineups but they’ve had 16 starting lineups in their 41 games last I checked I don’t know if they I don’t think they played last night so 16 different starting line lineups and just like no one’s really consistently starting the only two guys that have

Like super consistently been in the starting lineup when they’re out there are John Collins and L marinan and everyone else is just kind of like let’s see what this guy’s going to be like let’s see how this guy’s going to handle this position and I think that’s part of

The reason they really struggled is they were really finding their identity it’s like all right we don’t necessarily have like a couple singular talents they’re going to just drag us across the regular season we have these 10 guys we have a couple guys that are you know better

Than average but they kind of need like a certain kind of system to really Elevate what they’re doing on the court and so I think there was like you said a lot of tinkering to figure out exactly who’s going to play and fonio finally Landing in like these minutes is

Unbelievable because his ability to just be like he’s huge out there like I think he’s listed at 67 that’s a lie Ben this guy’s clearly 68 69 he’s just huge out there I I think he’s listed it He’s listed at 68 on my oh is he yes on my

Information okay what what information do you have I thought I thought basketball reference was telling me that but I don’t want to slander them I could be wrong but I watch he’s not six okay yeah he’s he’s big he’s a he’s a very big dude and when he has like the

Shooting pry shooting like 43% on wideopen threes and I know he’s only been in the league for a couple Seasons but a 28-year-old second-year player and you can see that he’s been like a professional for a long time cuz he’s not a typical second-year player like he feels really comfortable out there he

Knows what his abilities are he like showcases a little bit of off thee dribble Talent once in a while he can up fake someone take a dribble in kick it out or something like that but he’s a lot more comfortable just like squaring up he’s huge so it’s tough to contest

His catch and shoot threes and then defensively he just knows where to be and he’s big which is always just a really valuable thing especially to have in like this weird rotating defense that they throw out so I think they landed on this like really interesting talent that

Kind of came out of nowhere these last couple of Seasons well we’ve seen teams make a single adjustment and like last year uh the Knicks threw Quenton Grimes in the starting lineup and it changed things we’ve seen the Celtics two years ago change a rotation or a lineup or or

Just a single thing with Utah it’s tinkering all these things and I think fonio is part of it I’m I’m assuming half the people listening haven’t even seen a jazz game this year I think they were on national TV recently against the Nuggets when they curb stomped them I

Mean this is just all they do they just play teams we had a group text the other night where I said I feel bad for the Lakers to have to play the jazz tonight and then Cody was like well LeBron isn’t playing so might be a situation where

You let your guard down and the Lakers have this big game and the Lakers had this big lead in the first quarter and I was like Cody it’s the Jazz the Lakers are not going to win the rest of this game because the Jazz are just too like

It’s legit they’re really good right now we’re going to try to talk through how good they are but fonio is one part of it where he comes in the starting lineup about a month and a half ago and you get a very polished as you said professional

Where he shoots well High release great movement off the ball and then knows when to attack and close out and make the good extra pass that’s all he does he reminds me of one of these players on like the Manu job uh uh Oberto Argentinian national teams that you’re

Just like so he doesn’t have all this ISO ball handle self-generated scoring juice but he plays hard he knows where to be he defends he can shoot and then you put that and I’m so glad you said the 2014 Spurs because I get the Vibes as well where you don’t have a player

Really playing over 30 minutes per game you have so many different contributors in different places like they try to play two playmaking guards so seon will play with Clarkson and then Clarkston will play with George they just try to always have two of those guys out there then they

Want the shooting if they go to a defense lineup like they moving Walker Kessler to the bench was a huge thing and finding okay Walker Kessler on the bench and let me pair him with Kelly o linck who’s a stretch big and he’s a stretch big who can kind of make some

Plays in the middle of the court and supplement the playmaking and so what you end up with is this read and react flow offense that has these hints of a beautiful game element because what coach will hardy wants is he wants the players out there making decisions understanding how to read defenses

Moving and flowing from one set into the next and so if you haven’t seen this team um it’s sort of like not suitable for work basketball level of adult entertainment like they’ll start with like a staggered screen away and then they twirl it what the guy who sets the

Screen turns around and then he comes over and gets a little pitch and then he goes in the corner meanwhile three other guys are screening on the other side of the Court they’re sprinting in different directions oopsy doopsy Lowry Markin and got open you know he’s like one of the

Best Shooters in the league so that’s a three Lowry’s kind of the centerpiece of it all and the star and the big name but he because of the way he plays he’s not on ball a lot stuff isn’t built around him they’re augmenting defensive lineups around him I wouldn’t say he’s a poor

Defender because he’s so big uh he uses his size really well but it’s like why why start fonio why start Chris Dunn those guys are really good defensively even finding um in the in the bench units like minut for for oai uh agbaji right like he’s he’s comes in and he can

Give defensive minutes so it’s like all of a sudden everything is falling into place and you get this team that is way more than the sum of their parts and okay something you said about like they’re blending in with a lot of these actions I think what’s really fun Ben

You you start learning like X’s nose and you just become like Leonardo DiCaprio meme like pointing to the screen like ah I know the name of that play but like what he likes to do is he sets it up like a lot some of these common like NBA

Actions right not getting into the weeds of just like look at me naming all these but some common NBA actions you see and then you’re like are we going to do a little delay action right now yeah a little a little delay actually I don’t think they do a lot of delay action

That’s one they don’t they do not do a lot of delay action because it doesn’t it doesn’t suit their personnel right yeah anyway keep going yeah like you said you have a lot of these guys coming off like double staggers but then like an action will happen and then over here

There’ll be another kind of screen but then two guys over you’re kind of bunched up and you’re like wait a second are one of these guys going to screen for that person and then just like because they seem to be communicating like telepathically like all of a sudden

One of them like Dives to the rim one of them flares out and you’re just like oh my God the defense is completely thrown away uh Kelly oen throws a lob to John Collins or throws a lob to whoever or John Collins throws a lob to Kessler

There’s just lobs all over the place cuz people are freaking out about like the perimeter actions that they’re doing and a lot of it works like you said because lri marinan is kind of used as like a Reggie Miller offensive piece in the sense that like they’re not just giving

Him the ball and they’re like hey go create some stuff for us because he’s not really much of a Creator like the weakness in his offensive game is is the passing chops you know once in a while you can see him making a nice little kick out but like short arms passes

Misses reads uh overthrows players things like that but when you set him up in a position where comes off a pin down he catches and he fires like it’s impossible to contest him cuz he’s a seven-footer with a high release but oh you’re getting up close to him this guy

Just burns by you with his streaking athleticism because he just wants to dunk on everyone like this guy just Dives to the basket with Reckless abandon and that’s a lot to try and stay in front of and then when you have defenses collapsing he’s a good enough

Passer that he can make a simple uh kick out and then everyone else just kind of knows where to be around that so like he’s sort of the juice that makes the offense flow but it’s not in the sense that like they’re giving him the ball

And letting him cook but his ability to just like be decisive in his shots and his drives and things like that is the thing that really makes the offense as potent as it is well they’ve really weaponized him away from the ball to your point and what I love about the

Jazz offense is that the sequences always have options that build on each other so the entire wide pin down where they set a screen in the corner for Lowry and he curls off that creates problems for the defense do you send two players to that if you don’t do do you

Post him up because of the switch like how do you handle that when he comes off that curl or just comes off that screen for a catch and shoot then the next time Utah can just use him as the screener so the two guys are over in the corner he

Turns around and sets the screen and now you have a dynamic one of those Dynamic offensive players that I talked about Jordan Clarkson or someone like that curling and if the defense has to respond to that then marinin just pops out for a little catch and shoot three

So the actions are always building on each other they have another one that I love where they’ll have staggered screens away from the ball and everyone in the NBA runs this and the guy curls off and you can attack from there and get good offense but they’ll do stuff

Like against the Mavs Cody they came down they set up the staggered screen action away from the ball and then it turns out it’s actually not a staggered screen fonio turns and he’s gonna set two screens for the ball handler instead so they’re not looking for the off Ball

Action now they turn it into an on-ball action and then fonio is it is it a Spain pick and roll is it what’s is it a slip and a pop no fonio slides like in between the defender and the other screener flares out to the three-point

Line just catch and shoot drops it on someone’s head because that’s his skill set so all of the X’s and O’s that they have have these series that can develop in in this sort of beautiful way and what they want is continuity so if the first part of the action breaks down

Where are you going where are you flowing to next if I set a screen here the and the action isn’t an easy shot I go somewhere else and I set another screen it’s just not super easy to defend especially relative to what we would think about the offensive Talent

They have is out on the court and what really does help the off-ball stuff happens is the way that they’ve like consolidated a lot of the on ball juice too like you said I think especially Colin ston and it’s Jordan Clarkson who if you look at drives per 36 in the

Thinking basketball.net database both of these guys are near the top of the league like I think I think clarkon Clarkston clarkon yes clarkon uh coj or Clarkson is very yes it’s a very potent point guard so CL Clarkson I think is in the top 10 in drives for 36

And you know Colin ston is right around top 15 so these are two guys that like when all this stuff is happening they can still break down their guy I know that Clarkson’s like relative true shooting percentage is pretty underwater like he’s a woefully inefficient uh type

Of scorer but he kind of brings this like irrational confidence Off the Bench like he might be at the top of the like yes yes no kind of guys in the NBA like I think the clearest like yes yes no play I think he like he like drives in

Uh somebody tries I think it’s ol lenic tries to make a pass to him while he’s cutting he kind of bobbles the ball and he like jumps up he’s like all right I guess I’m just going to shoot and then last m is like oh wait there’s Walker

Keser I’m just going to throw him a lob and just like throws it right over and hits him and so like you kind of have these two guys that are like really Adept at getting by pretty much anyone in the NBA and at least getting paint touches and when you have like singular

Talents that have the ability to do that despite the fact that like Clarkson’s uh efficiency isn’t great um I think that really stir the drink a lot more and opens the door for a lot of this other off ball kind of stuff because you still

Have to be afraid of the guy that has the ball as opposed to like you know like a classic delay action you got a big guy up top that’s passing the ball you’re not always afraid of that guy beating you off the dribble but when you have a little Speedster off the dribble

You really have to be able to watch like backline defense and rotating around to try and stop somebody like that so I like the role that Hardy’s kind of like carved out for both Clarkson and seon yeah I mean offensively I just think their their role is perfect for

This team yeah and they’re both uh they’re not great Shooters but they’re both say average to slightly above average three-point Shooters and when you account for the fact that you know some of the players in the league aren’t even shooting threes in that when we look at like what’s an average

Three-point shot that means you have to worry about their catch and shoot you have to worry about their threat of outside shooting so the spacing is where I’m going here the spacing really opens up and Utah just has great spacing with some of these lineups and that spacing

Can be difficult for defenses to handle right now from on a night toight basis it’s just uh you know when you have a number of Shooters and and then of course Walker Kessler comes in the game Off the Bench he’s playing more with the second unit dunker spot lob threat kind

Of thing and that’s on the defensive side and then the I mean that’s on the offensive side and then on the defensive side Kesler comes in the game he’s Rim protecting um you know Chris Dunn aaji the size of players like fonio even Lowry marinin it’s there’s a lot going

On and it’s really beautiful it’s really beautiful basketball and It’s just tough for people to handle right now I want to throw a little bit more love to Colin seon because I think he gets a little bit of an unfair rap like you you look at some of like the impact numbers and

They’re not great and I think a lot of it when you go into like PBP stats and check it out there’s a lot of defensive woses like he’s his on offs for defensive numbers are pretty Dreadful but you start breaking it down and look at the offensive side of things he’s

Kind of you know he’s showcased himself as a nice little impact offensive player he’s not like at the top of the league but I think he’s probably like in the minds of a lot of people in the league um he’s probably underrated at this point and just how much he is able to

Contribute as a scorer as a playmaker as an offensive player uh his he’s a good shooter like you said he just doesn’t take wide open three-point attempts like he’s like such a low volume of wideopen three-point attempts uh he just takes a lot of tough shots but again he’s

Actually fairly efficient for some of the attempts he makes so I want to give Colin ston a little bit of his flowers on offense here I’m so glad you mention Colin seon we are vibing today we’re mind melding like we play for the Utah Jazz because here’s you said like seon’s

Impact numbers don’t look that good when you look at his profile and for the overall season that’s true and I think in the past especially with some of the roles he’s had to play on different teams when he’s younger he struggled to really be like this this is a great

Young guard uh who’s making great decisions the playmaking is there the shooting is there the turnovers are down that has not been his career so he’s probably uh maybe at this point very underappreciated by people but when you look at this run the Jazz are on and you

Look at what’s happening in the last month I think part of it is creating an environment where more and more players can succeed to their strengths Lowry Mark in everything’s tailored to his strengths and they can build entire offensive sets around his size and his shooting and his movement away from the

Ball but all this stuff like fono everything helps fonio but he’s a role player seon can be more of a primary player he’s one of the key on ball attackers on the team and if you look at his numbers in the last month this is not from some hot shooting streak he’s

Not like a 30% shooter from three who’s shooting 50% from three in the last month that’s not what’s happening at all instead what I see is is uh so on the year seon is like 25 points and 3% better than League average so 61% true shooting it’s basically his numbers on

The year in the last month he’s 28 points per 75 plus 5% true shooting and if you just go down the list of all his indicators in the last month they’re cleaner he’s more efficient the turnovers are better the rimfield goal percentage is better he’s up to

77% at The Rim in the last month he’s taking way more free throws so he actually he actually draws fouls because he’s pretty good at getting to the rim in general you mentioned the drives but all all these numbers are up and I think it’s because when you get an ecosystem

That Hardy and the Jazz have built it helps all these players like this so now if we just zoomed in on his impact numbers for the last month that we have on our thinking basketball.net database uh all of a sudden Cody you jumped to the 94th percentile in offensive bux box

Plus minus in the last month for Colin seon 81st percentile overall still doesn’t have the plus minus indicators that someone like marinan has but I just go down the roster and I just see like okay every time you can make life easier for one of the players out there that’s

What was going on with the 2014 Spurs so in addition to maybe some of the X’s and O’s Concepts and things like that it’s like how do you explain Danny Green how do you explain Gary Neil how do you explain Thiago splitter and and Boris di is really talented player

But you just put him in the right lineups and the right situations where he doesn’t have to be a superstar he can playmake and do all the nice things he does Marco bellelli was a shooting specialist on that team it’s a little of that same thing where you’re just like

You got nine or 10 guys and it’s taken a while but I really feel like he’s found the right formula to unlock that and then we haven’t even talked about the def defense a big part about KH seon very short segment here but it’s the gym

Corner aspect of it like you KH seon has not shied away from the weit room in his life and he he shows he’s kind of like the he’s got the Drew holiday sort of Drive sometimes like he’s very Adept and like he gets into the paint and he’s

Like I’m going to throw my shoulder into you maybe I’ll back down this point guard a little bit and throw in a little hook so he has the speed but also the strength allows him to get closer and absorb some of that contact to draw a

Lot of those FS you were talking about the second favorite player of mine on the team to talk about you mentioned and I think it’s a nice transition Point wait who’s the fa who’s your favorite we haven’t gotten to him yet we’ll talk okay oh you’re counting you’re doing a

Countdown well we’ll talk about him don’t you worry we’ll talk about him I’m excited about this counting down this is fantastic I don’t mean to question like the almighty will hardy uh but can you tell me why Walker Kessler isn’t playing like 33 minutes a game because his sorry

You go you go on you go oh no you there’s more to the question I’m ready but go ahead I I was just going to say I watched this guy go and I’m like if we like remove Rudy goar this season from the picture uh I don’t know how many

Players in the league right now are better paint protectors than Walker Kessler and he’s a fantastic Rim roller obviously passing isn’t there spacing definitely isn’t there but in terms of just like a defense unto himself allows them to do a lot of fun zone type stuff

I I mean you put him up into like 30 minutes a game and we’re talking about a defensive player of the year candidate man I wouldn’t go that far I wouldn’t go that far yeah I don’t know Ben I wouldn’t go that far better than everyone but Rudy uh he’s quite good I

Mean that’s his role you put him in the game I think the Zone helps there’s there’s a lot of situations where they put him in there and they unleash the zone and he’s in the middle of the zone you can funnel stuff toward him do you have your fancy Rim protection numbers

On Walker Kessler this year I just I think he’s very good at that role but I I would not automatically put him in like 34 minutes a game Defensive Player of the Year well while you check that I think the clear answer to what’s going on there a they don’t really play

Anybody more than 30 or 32 minutes a game because of these uh lineups and part of that with the Spurs and I think part of that with the Jazz that maybe we haven’t explicitly said they play so hard they run on both ends of the Court they communicate they Sprint they run

Into their actions they move a lot it feels just like with that Spurs team 10 years ago it feels like the coach has getting an in his pants anytime the anytime they stop like anytime there’s like five out spacing and the guys like dancing with the ball as a as a viewer

You’re like OHA what’s happening someone broke the Jazz the the the aliens from Space Jam came down and they stole their Juju for a second like why isn’t everyone running around the controllers have been unplugged mom came into the room and she turned the game off that’s

Kind kind what it feels like uh but I think spacing is the answer with Walker Kessler on offense just finding the right spacing with the lineups that they have so the spacing changes when he comes in and you try to do stuff like if he screens up higher things like that

You try to do stuff to preserve the spacing but it’s a different thing that that’s than that starting unit where a lesser Defender like John’s John Collins gives you that spacing because he’s at least like a 36 37% open three-point shooter that teams have to respect and

He gives you that uh pop and vertical threat as well that Kessler gives you I I think that’s what’s happened so you know without getting too in the weeds of this like these Rim protection numbers we’re looking out basically it’s like onoff estimate of how many Rim points a

Team scores based on whether or not you’re on the court so basically what what does the team’s paint defense look like when you’re in the game versus out of the game and the summary for uh our friend Walker kler is how good does it look well it’s interesting because it

Looks like you checked this a couple hundred minutes ago and Ben I’m happy to come back and report to you that it has improved that at this at this point in the season uh their defense is six points better per 100 possessions when he’s on the court and the rim numbers I

Mean it Stacks up against you know because I I spent a lot of the offseason checking these numbers out it literally Stacks up with and surpasses most anyone that I would look at in this entire Century right there’s like an 11 points per 100 uh possessions difference in the

Paint when he’s on the court this walk right now this season this is Walker minus 11 at The Rim you’re saying exactly and I would say like you look at pretty much anyone over the course of a couple Seasons like Joel embiid kg Tim Duncan a lot of these guys if you get

Around like -78 ne9 at that point you’re like you’re an elite rim protector but like the absolute best like the Rudy go Bears sha uh Jason Collins all these guys get into double digits and if I’m not mistaken I think this is the second year in a row Walker K would be boasting

A double digit number in here so just by this metric and like you said the Zone part of it I think the Zone helps I think he’s the reason the Zone works so well cuz he’s mobile enough that he can like I’m going to keep an eye on this

Guy in the corner but also if anyone comes near the rim like okay Marshon bocho like you’re going to be cutting to the rim like I’m going to just walk over like volleyball block you and you try and come over here so I I don’t know I

Think he’s the key to their defense being as as fun as it is 12 % of the audience couldn’t pick Walker Kessler out of a lineup uh oh he’s the guy that kind of looks like will hardy he’s a he’s the taller version of Will Hardy

Cody I think you have to take this round I think we have to give this round to Cody uh I think I think you’re making some really strong points if you look at his field goals defended around the basket that they track with the tracking data he’s in the 97th percentile in

Volume meaning he contests a lot of shots around the hoop and he’s in the 97th percenti in efficiency meaning he makes you much less efficient than we would expect that is fantastic that is Elite Upper Crust stuff so I think we have to give this round to Cody on

Walker Kessler Plus in the last month been talking about all these changes and see I think this has to do with playing on the second unit this is one of the reasons why I don’t immediately go to like he’s the second best defensive player in the league uh playing on the

Second unit maximizes all this stuff it helps him play slightly weaker competition slightly different teammates out there and then of course he’s replacing who they don’t really have like a center anymore on the starting unit right he’s replacing John Collins so what we’ve seen in the last month these are some

Stats for you my friend are you sitting down you are I can see you I don’t know why I down more I’ll get lower for this one if you’re driving at home and you you’re prone to listening and driving off the road like I am when you hear

Crazy stats you might want to pull over I don’t want to be responsible for any vehicular incidents uh the Jazz are 18 points better per 100 in the last month with Walker Kessler on the floor and Cody would you like to know Utah’s net rating with Walker Kessler on the floor

In the last month what is it’s it has to be more than plus seven I’m guessing it is a little bit more than plus seven the Jazz are plus 18 per 100 with Walker Kesler on the court in the last month um I told you I told you in this show we’re

Going to convince you that the Utah Jazz are a real thing and we need to kind of reckon with what does that mean like how good are they what does this actually mean that’s a bench player and again assuming you haven’t seen what’s been going on there it’s almost like hockey

Shifts you will usually see four to five starters play together at once and then four sometimes even five bench players sometimes they keep a starter in or something like that but you’ll see an entirely different second unit out there at the end of the first quarter and the

Start of the second quarter so if we go to the starting starting lineups in the last month Lowry Markin always has these beautiful onoff numbers the last two seasons Jazz are plus 11 per 100 with Lowry marinin on the floor in the last month plus 11 that that make that what you will

That’s phenomenal it’s a nice number it’s a goodlooking number yeah something that Lori L so I’m I’m like pronounced his name differently every time Lowry marketing right L I think there are finished sounds that I can’t say that are subtly different but yes we’ll go

With yes we’ll go with that so it’s a little bit of a a nitpicky thing I think with some announcers I think people should try as much as possible to stick with the last name of players because there’s a lot of times where I’ll be watching a jazz game and somebody will

Refer to Lowry and I’m like when did Kyle Lowry get in this game like who what’s going isn’t that the local the local don’t don’t you feel like National guys use the last name more and the local guys just they’re like Steve has the ball passes it over to Pat you’re

Like what who I think it’s necessary for some guys when you have a couple of like repeating last names but like Lowry that’s Kyle Lowry in my book uh something that we didn’t talk about with him actually uh he doesn’t turn the ball

Over Ben and I know this has a lot to do with him just like not being like I’m going to handle and dance with the ball and make these passes but I think that’s an aspect that’s super underrated in terms of how valuable his scoring is is

Just relative to other dudes that have the offensive load that he does and that scores as much as he does he just doesn’t turn it over right and I think like I said you know High release StraightLine Drive the offense is really set up for him to do well but like you

Were talking about with Walker kler coming off the bench I’m not going to dock a guy for being in a great situation for himself right I’m not going to dock Colin ston for finding a system that really works well for him to be able to get to the basket and be

Efficient and things like that so uh marinin again able to elevate their offense by you know just like like guys like Demar de rozan who also don’t turn the ball over it’s an added bonus to your offensive efficiency that isn’t discussed as much Cody what are we doing with Will

Hardy what where is he in the the coach hierarchy can he can he win the coach of the year after starting uh with that record that they had is that seven and 16 can you go seven and 16 and win the coach of the year okay we’re halfway

Through the we have half the season to go B they have another 41 games so either either either people need to figure them out better and have some jazz specific scouting it’s no longer a night off like they’re catching people off guard like either that needs to happen

Or shooting luck and variance aside Utah is just going to continue to rack up wins in the second half of the year they’re already above 500 mhm which is crazy because when we talk about a team starting like seven and 16 you go like

Can they even get to 500 by the end of the year they’re already above 500 even if they slow way down 45 like what’s the number that gets him in the coach of the year inner circle well you and I I think we did a podcast about this last year I

Think right about like the Nar narratives is what drives coach like that’s basically all that matters for Coach of the Year like not necessarily scill it’s the narrative the the expectation in the preseason and things like that like how many wins do we think this team’s going to have and then how

Many wins do they end up having kind of coupled with a narrative like did they did they do this the year before is there a new coach is there a new player that kind of thing according to Vagas insider.com Vagas Vegas what did I say yeah Vegas Vegas Las Vegas Vegas Vegas

Really struggling with the words today Las Vegas that sounds weird Midwestern just coming out here uh according to this was just updated in January 10th um will hardy is 27th in coach of the year like Tony 7th to win the award yeah there’s some lag there’s a little lag

There’s a lag and faggus Insider is that what you’re telling me I’m what I’m telling you is uh uh by the way Cody’s like a tea toal there’s no substances involved in this but you know I sometimes you like you hear words and they don’t sound right

Anyway yes this is yeah Will Hardy 27th yeah I don’t know there’s a lot of season left so anything can happen but I think if we keep up the pace of what’s going on I don’t know if Mark deol’s Case is impeachable at this point like I

Think he’s pretty much already got the award wrapped up in like everyone’s Minds uh and then I think the interesting other guys that he’s probably competing with Chris depending on how the Timberwolves kind of end up um Jamal Mosley’s like third right now on this Vagas Insider but I I think

That’s going to drop off a little bit more so honestly you know also the uh pelicans have had an incredible last month so maybe there’s a interesting like Willie Green Resurgence here but I do think that his best competition and probably the two top Front Runners are

Uh Mark dagnal Chris Finch for coach of the year yeah I think those are did you mention Eric spola did you put him in there oh wow I forgot about Eric I think you know what this is I feel sad I kind of don’t know if Eric sper is ever going to

Win coach of the year he’s too good for coach of the year yeah we just kind of like know it you know it was it was like LeBron at a certain point in the 20110 it’s like all right just go to the finals and we’ll give MVP to somebody else in

2031 uh there’s going to be a trophy they hand out for playoff coach the best playoff coach M it’s kind of like the eastern and western conference MVPs that we’ve been missing our whole lives and then the thinking basketball podcast if it’s still around then I mean probably

Won’t be that’s a long time uh but some podcast is going to go let’s retroactively go back and do all the playoff coaches and who’s going to get this tro and they’ll give spoler like three of those they’ll hang some banners somewhere they’ll be like Eric spola

20203 playoff coach of the year we don’t have that yet but he’ll get it he’ll do it the other one uh Nick nurse Nick nurse has got to be up there he’s got to be way up there yeah yeah I think Philadelphia is going to crush their

Preseason expectations I think a lot of this depends on like how many games does embiid play do they finish second in the standings that kind of thing Missoula with the Celtics being so good will probably be in there somewhere but I don’t see I mean eay ok has done a good

Job Tom Tibido with new yor yeah yeah yeah yeah but these are teams with pretty good like I think udoka if they can get above 500 because the Jazz preseason the Jazz the Rockets preseason expectation was so much lower I think he’ll be there but Utah also did not

Have a high preseason expectation so I I don’t know maybe we should end the show on this like where do you think this team is going besides to our television sets every night in the thinking basketball Universe because they’re the best league pass team um I should

Actually I have you did a soap boox thing earlier about saying first names I want to do a mini soap box thing okay they have the worst uniforms I’ve ever seen maybe in all of professional sports I don’t know what’s going on like they at this point they shouldn’t even have

Colors in the uniform it should just be a black and white uniform with a number it shouldn’t have a name on the let’s go more minimalist I would like no name on the front and a number I could be convinced into no number I could be talked into no number who’s that that’s

Just fono you have to know him that’s Simone you just have to know him um so I think that is part of the league pass experience Zack low and I are very connected on this I think the court matters I think the arena Ambiance matters for me I think that’s part of

The fun of getting into a a team when you watch them a lot that that whole sort of experience of watching it on TV but other than that man I mean who’s more fun than the Jazz this is my blind spot as an analyst like I just have no

Eye for the aesthetic like my wife was trying to have me check out a new comforter she wanted to try out and like she had it set she’s like how does it look I’m like I don’t know so I laid down immediately pulled it up she’s like

What are you doing I’m like I don’t care about what it looks like I just I just care about the feel like that’s how I feel about watching the NBA like I don’t even notice jerseys like they could all just be in plain white te’s and just

Like some shorts and I’d be good with it do you see the NBA in black and white or like a black and green like Neo is it just is that how you see it you don’t you don’t know anyone’s color you don’t know that Luca donic likes to wear pink

Shoes I don’t even see the code anymore Ben I just see LCA donic pink shoes before we get out of here Ben we have to talk about a player is this your favorite jazz player yeah we we need we did not wax poetic enough about this guy can I guess who it is

Yeah cuz you know you have to know who it is at this point I’ve inferred it I’ve inferred it yeah I didn’t know before we recorded but now that we’ve done our Jazz thing and we’ve talked about the Jazz there’s only one left there is only one and that one is done

Oh it’s not one it’s one one and done the one is dun it’s Chris Dunn right have you have you watched Chris Dunn play basketball Chris Dunn when he was with the bulls a couple years ago I was like I think we talked about him in one of the thinky the thinking basketball

Defensive Awards the hands the activity like he he had in the past these moments defensively where I thought he could be a really Elite Defender starting guard kind kind of basically the position he’s in now and then I feel like he he faded into the background for a while only to be

Revitalized there’s something I don’t know what it is he dropped down in minutes per game so he’s kind of like in the Gary pton the second when he’s healthy minutes like he’s playing like 17 minutes per game and I think he was playing 25 minutes per game last time

That he was really a big main stay in the league but if we’re talking about just like the defensive skills that this guy brings um I don’t want to say the best cuz you know I got to hold things for the thinks I got to really map out

Some of my thoughts but I would be really hard pressed to find one or two guys in the league that are better at chasing around screen Chris D you knowbody sets a screen he’s following right behind them he doesn’t necessarily like do a switch right away and something he does that’s just so

Catches so many guys off guard is he’ll Chase somebody around the screen I think he got uh he got Jamaal Murray on something like this before I don’t remember who else he caught on this but like he’ll be following right behind them and the player comes around he’s

Like oh look at this open pocket pass that I have to The Rolling big man and he throws it and Chris Dunn’s already like I knew you were going to pass that and just like teleport over there and steals it or the person has like a step

On him they’re like oh look at this wide open floater that I have Christ’s like nope I’m already beating you to that spot so just like you can’t count him out of a play ever around a screen and beyond that just like the communication I don’t know if there’s a team that like

Points as much as this team does on defense like I think it’s against the the Mavericks there’s a he’s defending Luka donic John Collins comes up uh they set a screen on Dunn and Dunn like drops back and lri Marin’s immediately like go to the corner and they just completely

Stifle the pick and roll I think I think Luca ends up just like lucing it and hits a step back three anyway um but just like how disruptive Chris Dunn is on defense with just like getting blocks down low stripping people um stopping people’s like pocket passes it’s

Unbelievable how he’s just everywhere on defense and I think that combined with like I think the passing chops are interesting with him whereas I don’t count him as a good Creator but I think in space he makes the right read enough that it keeps the offense like flowing

Even though he doesn’t like he’s not much of like an offensive issue for other teams at all but he can move the ball and that combined to make him like a dimes and defense guy in the NBA I I just love Chris Dunn he’s my number one

Jazz man do you know that Chris done once Miss time with dislocated teeth it’s 2018 he you don’t remember this he fell he fell and I’m trying to make sure I got my my facts right on this cuz it was a long long time ago he fell and he chipped and dislocated two

Of his front teeth it was like the end of the it’s like the same time like five six years ago when he was playing with the bulls you don’t remember that what is dislocated teeth I that’s what I just saying like I don’t know uh that’s on

The injury report says sore teeth and then dislocated teeth from a full you know think he was playing the Warriors I’ve dislocated digits you know that’s the whole like pop it right back I don’t know can you do that for teeth like did someone just like grab them just like

You know I don’t know I’ve dislocated limbs I don’t recommend it yeah yeah yeah te sounds terrible um watch the Utah Jazz they’re if you want to support this show go to patreon.com slinking basketball uh that of course is where we have our stats board for teams and players that updates throughout the

Season we’ve got some of those additional stats that we might be trying to add this week we’ll see what happens um in terms of what I was talking about with the Colin seon and Lowry Markin in the last month and those those are always fun things to look at we’re

Trying to keep an eye on who’s hot and who’s not uh in the NBA patreon.com thinking basketball Cody we did it we we talked we did an entire hour on the Utah Jazz I feel like there’s more we could I mean it’s just we’ll see we’ll see how many people

Do you think made it through this show 13 well I I do feel bad for the people that were waiting for the Kelly o linic section cuz I think he’s there’s just there’s too much to talk about and I don’t think I don’t Kelly oin section yeah he’s fantastic headband

Kelly and I don’t think the people wanted an hour of Utah so some things some things just didn’t make the cut Ben that’s true that’s true we can’t believe in editing around here Ben we believe in editing on the thinking basketball the podcast the show editing you mean the

Podcast yeah we haven’t edited the podcast in years editing SE self editing self-editing oh oh yes you mean not just getting up here and just ranting about basketball for an hour and saying like we’re going to have a 10-minute conversation and then it goes like 1 hour and 41 minutes because we have

Every thought Under the Sun including new ones that pop into our head like little AI that don’t work that kind of editing when you put it that way I guess this is like the first time we’ve ever cut out a section so uh I recant I do

Not think we believe in in in what’s it called on the spot editing like I just said I don’t know I want to hear about this Walker Kessler I want to know where people are on Walker Kessler you made some great points about his presence as

A rim protector uh but I also feel like moving him moving him to the bench and getting to pair with Kelly o linck has been one of the wonderful adjustments that will we waited through this whole episode without talking about Utah’s flare screens which are the coolest

Thing in the NBA kid I need to actually um before Milwaukee comes at me right now um we we bought the fact that well they like beat the pants off Milwaukee the Utah Jazz did um I know Damen Lillard wasn’t playing but the first half of that Bucks game was still like

Maybe the first the worst half of Bucks basketball I’ve seen in a really long time and just go and watch watch how Utah builds a wall to defend Giannis they constantly just have like three guys and I know I know it wouldn’t have worked as well if Damen Lillard was out

There but still like this is a team that like we’re kind of trying to pretend like the Championship favorites or Championship contenders but like watch that first half against the ass it’s tough I we really shouldn’t have buried this after the outro after the segment after the outro after the

Bonus segment but we should mention Cody you have you have a you have a little announcement oh my God yes you have a little announcement that You’ you’d like to make that that is related to the programming our programming has been a little off it’s going to be a

Little off for the foreseeable future we’ll play it by ear uh but I forgot to mention it last time Cody you have an announcement yeah I do I completely forgot to mention this um I’m GNA be a dad in like the next few weeks uh so

Yeah my wife is due in the next few weeks going to go Dad mode hopefully I take the Fred Van Vleet route and that just like superpowers me in every other element of life but uh yeah I’ll be gone for a couple weeks from this podcast um

But I will still you know I’m going to keep being a main stay as much as possible here and I think I think we can do it uh once I am imbued with the Fred Van vet power so big congratulations to Cody he’s going to be a father and uh he

Will he will be on a little bit of a paternity leave and then we’ll kind of play it by ear we’ll see what we do after that I might Cody I might have to do a solo podcast I don’t know I’m might to have to get a guest I when was the

Last time we had a guest a guest how does that work well we had Kyle but we did have Kyle if you can count that as a as a guest yeah we did have that yeah I hear I hear people still reach out to you about how great the floater segment

Was um I’m happy to revisit that any you mean you want to do 20 you mean you want to do 24 more minutes on shooting floater 3es in the NBA okay that might be the Apex of this of this show um but beyond that I don’t know who

Is I don’t know who was a guest before that but uh yeah yeah so that’s that’s the programming we’ll we’ll play it by year um I’m not sure what that means for a normal Monday Thursday schedule yet but uh yeah I think more importantly congratulations to Cody and let’s wish

Him luck on fatherhood it’s easy you just don’t don’t just all you have to do is not mess up your child that’s it super thank you that’s that’s I’m hoping I can do that I’m going to go in with the will hardy mentality and just be a

Well-oiled machine at all times I I don’t she’ll be able to do a flare screen by like six months right like that’s uh six months 6 months I mean I think you’re being a little ridiculous 6 months is just no way you’re doing flare screens at 6 months and feeling good

About yourself three months is when you do the flare screen got it okay uh that’s it for this show thanks thanks for listening all the way through and of course we hope you are having a great Day