Will the White Sox move to a new stadium in the South Loop?!

Chuck Garfien speaks with Chicago Sun-Times reporter Tim Novak one of the writers who broke the story that the White Sox are in “serious” discussions about potentially building a new stadium on a parcel of land called “The 78” in the South Loop. How realistic is this idea? What would a park in this location with possible views of the skyline mean for the White Sox? And who’s going to pay for it?

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Will the White Sox move to a new stadium in the South Loop?!
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Okay Tim Novak is with me he wrote the proposed ballpark story in the Chicago Sun Times with his colleagues France fielman and David roer uh so many questions I want to ask you Tim let’s just begin with something simple how did this story come together um well I can’t specifically

Answer that question but it um a source that I was talking to about another matter um mention this and this is a very intriguing piece of information I would have gone down that road as well if I were you okay how long have you guys been working

On it couple days couple of days this is a newer Story how serious in your mind are these talks for a new ballpark in the South Loop uh you know that’s really hard hard to say you know it’s uh you’ve been around um you know if you remember

What 30 years ago we were going to Sarasota or Tampa or wherever we were going until we weren’t going right um so you know what two weeks ago we were going to Nashville or whenever that was but um you know as somebody explained to me

It it is still about a mile south of Madison so it puts them still on the right side of the line um I don’t know um there’s not a lot of places available I guess for that kind of thing um I don’t think they want to stay where they’re at

Anymore um you know I was just talking to somebody who’s intimately familiar with this site and you know this is this site’s been really a problem for years to try to do anything with it so can they make this magic happen I don’t know so I’ve been by this site before

Couple years ago I looked at it just happened to be near it and then I started doing research on it and I’m thinking this is Prime real estate for something special like a ballpark but why has it been such a problem to get anything developed on it um well you

Know at one point it was going to be an Ikea um so um it’s a problem because there’s no infrastructure on it there’s no sewers there’s no streets there’s there’s nothing on it and there’s railroad tracks that cross it so you got to deal with that um and I

Think I think this might have been landfill at one point so you had problems with with just the the the natural site itself and it’s kind of like what Roosevelt Road runs above it and to the north and like if you’re on Roosevelt Road you’re looking down on it

And then on Clark Street it’s it’s kind of like you can see it but you can’t touch it right and so you know at one point um Tony Resco owned the site and Tony was Rod bic’s uh sengali and they both ended up going to prison and so Tony Resco made this

Site radioactive nobody wanted to touch this site because you they didn’t want to uh benefit Tony Resco well Resco had a partner um named n aoui who was um an Iranian arms dealer who’s uh convicted in France of some crime and he’s not allowed to come in the country and to

The best of my knowledge I think ouchi still owns this property and he’s working with related Midwest to try to find a development so um does ouchi still does that matter anymore that that the site is owned by a guy who can’t come to the United States because he was

Convicted of selling arms I don’t know um this sounds like a TV show well everything here is a TV show right so um I I don’t know I you know they tell us the be this too small for the Bears I don’t know 62 acres seems like a lot of space um

Um so um well I’ll say this that you know you have to figure out okay is it environmentally friendly is the foundation strong enough to hold a ballpark there’s water there there’s no sewage as you said uh no roads you can always build roads but how big of a

Project would this be I know you’re not in construction but it sounds like at the very least the white socks are going down the road of what would it take for us to move here and just taking that step seems like a big one I think so you

Know I mean at least they’re uh I do think they’re seriously looking at the site whether they determin it’s viable or not I don’t know um it does have environmental problems with it um you know I think at one point there were a lot of homeless people would just kind

Of hang out on it it’s you know it’s it’s a big Park um and you know I don’t know I don’t know who would pay for it I you know would the state be willing to uh come up with money for roads and sewers and that kind of thing uh maybe

Um but there’s a lot of other things that are nearby you know there’s the trains are there and um you could walk there from the loop um it’s not really that far um this just seems so much more desirable from a Fan Experience from getting there to being

There to leaving there and that’s why so many White Sox fans I think are so excited about it nothing against guaranteed raid field that stadium has had its problems I think the White Sox have done an amazing job improving it over the years but this is like

Something out of the heavens if this was able to be pulled off yeah it would be pretty remarkable um you know I’m I’m our understanding is they want to go smaller now you I don’t know what us uh cellular Guaranteed Rate or what socks Park holds these days but they’re talking like 30

35,000 um so uh so that was from your sourcing from your information that the socks W have a smaller ballpark yes that that that’s kind of the the that’s kind of uh the the trend in ballparks these days is to have it a little bit smaller intimate maybe it’s less obvious if the

Seats aren’t all full um I don’t really know but um I know they’ve looked around at other sites in the city and I just don’t think they you know there’s been talk that they wanted to try to put something over by the United Center but there’s just

Not enough land um that is has one owner you know you’d have to Cobble a bunch of things together and I I just don’t know if they would do that or not so whether you are from Chicago or not I think there’s a lot of people from Chicago who

Have never even heard of the 78 it’s new because there are 77 neighborhoods in Chicago this would be the 78th neighborhood they even have a website it sounds like the city wants to make this a very Innovative District something new something technology driven the University of Illinois with JB pritsker

Want to have they already have a deal in place right to build some kind of tech center can you explain what that is well that came out a few years ago I think that was before covid and so I don’t even you know there’s there’s there’s

Talk that they still want to do it and then other people are saying they’ve heard they don’t want to do it anymore um all these things are fluid nothing has been built there so over the years over the decades and this goes back to daily there have been lots of plans

Floated for this site but nothing has ever been built you know at one point this just going to be housing um that didn’t happen and I was talking to somebody today who has been involved in this and they’re like the people who live around there basically the people

Who are what east of Clark there at Dearborn Park between Clark and State and they don’t want anything there but of course they don’t but they should their property values will go up well they might think they’ll go down right they don’t want all the traffic

You know it’s it’s kind of like the Northwestern people worried about all the traffic that it’s going to create I don’t know um I know they just want to go I I don’t think they want to stay at the at at um guar field anymore um and I’ve been told

That rinor wants to to do this deal before he’s gone um and that he wants to stay in the city I mean I I don’t know if that’s reality or if that’s spin but um that if he if he dies that his Partners would sell to the highest

Bidder and take on whatever plan they have in place for the stadium or move wherever that bidder is at um so I don’t I don’t know if all spin like you know you you know you better do this now or they’re going to move um we’ve heard that before um you

Know now they’re coming you know the idea though that they were already trying to figure out what they would do with with the cell and somehow retrofited for the fire um at least they’re thinking that far ahead or somebody’s thinking that far ahead of what do we do with this um that

Was someone in the city thinking that because the White Sox would have moved out in that scenario right right but I think um I think the White Soxs might be thinking of that too so they don’t uh I think the bonds would still not be paid

Off if they’ left when the lease runs out I think there’d be a lot of uh State financing that needs to be repaid and if there’s no tenant there’s no income so so in response to your story in the Sun Times mayor Brandon Johnson and the White Soxs uh chairman Jerry reinsdorf

Issued a joint statement it said this quote we met to discuss the historic partnership between the team and Chicago and the team’s ideas for remaining competitive in Chicago in perpetuity so what is your reaction to the response that you got from the mayor and Jerry rinor doesn’t really say

Anything I mean there’s there’s a lot of uh there’s a lot of space between those sentences that you can read into you know in perpet it what doesn’t in perpetuity for a ballpark mean basically 30 years isn’t that kind of like the going right you know 30 years and we’re

Done with this one um I you know I don’t know um you know the question is does is is this the mayor who can pull a deal like that together um I I don’t know because he’s got two people wanting stadiums now um and um you know they

They both want their stadiums in the city uh you know my sources were telling me that the Bears have no desire to move to Arlington Heights they just that’s just that that was that was the Ted Phillips era those are gone so um so they want to stay in the

City well you know what people don’t seem to understand about you know if all the stadiums now well not Wrigley but well socks Park and Soldier Field are government owned facilities so you don’t have to pay any taxes on that and and and uh the Cook County Assessor has

Already put a high price tag on the vacant Arlington Heights property and the Bears don’t like that you know the Bears are cheap right isn’t that they they they’re gonna want somebody to pay for whatever they can get paid for and I don’t think that they’re going to want to pay taxes and

Uh they got three different school districts that are they got to haggle with and it it gets more complicated out there and and the taxes are much higher out there it always seemed like uh or the perception was it’s complicated in the city go to the suburbs there’s no

Problems out there or less problems but maybe uh the opposite is true what’s interesting for this idea for this ballpark is what it could look like and the views you know there’s the skyline that you could have in View and where the White Soxs if you want to say messed

Up I just think it was bad luck they were one year too early no one had even thought of or certainly had not designed or made a ballpark at that point they hadn’t made a ballpark at that point in 1991 where you saw oh there’s the skyline that started with the Baltimore

Orial in 1992 the white socks were 1991 they went backwards as opposed to going forward in terms of their plans so this would be like well we we messed up that 30 years later let’s do it right and that’s what is exciting at least potentially well

I’m I’m GNA rely on you here isn’t there some sort of rule that home plate has to face is it is it North right because of the Winds because of the Sun as your phone is ringing um but you want to answer that are you okay no I

Don’t want to answer that you might want me to but I don’t oh oh oh was that Jerry rorf but um so so uh this one faces Southeast right guaranteed rafield faces Southeast right yes where whereas kisy used to face uh North Northeast so it faced Northeast you’d

Get the Skyline View a Skyline View when you’re on the ramp walking out right right the Cubs face Northeast as well yes our producer Claire has told me just now yes they face Northeast so you could do that the other thing to do is if you

Can and again I’m just a sports caster I am not a in in construction I’m not privy to the inside rules here but the dreamer in me is thinking okay is there a way to show Willis Tower which would be you could make it directly north

That’s in center field and in left field you have the Chicago River and you could do like a movy Cove where balls go in the river yeah if you can allow people to be in the river to fetch them but um oh yeah why not aren’t you gonna use the

Water taxi for fans to get to the park well that’s what they say but you know you all these things are you know um there’s a lot of um flowers here right you know who knows who knows if this is uh uh if this is

Reality if this is I don’t I don’t think that they’re trying to get a better deal out of the Illinois sports facilities Authority I just don’t think they want to be there anymore and if that’s the case they’re looking for places they looking at Soldier Field I’m assuming

Right there was thought thought of or talk of them going to Arlington Heights which doesn’t make sense to me this seems like the spot from in terms of traffic and getting there it’s tough Soldier Fields a pain in the you know what uh worst part about Soldier Field

Is trying to leave there yes this has what the Roosevelt train station you got the red line Green Line Orange are there and it’s it just seems like it’s easier to get to and maybe they can turn something into like the water taxi right now there’s like i’ I’ve seen there’s a

Water taxi here I’m I’m amazed and more people don’t use it but there’s not really much of a reason to use it you build a ballpark down there I I I I want to I’m going to invest in a water taxi well PE people do take the water taxi

From Downtown right Chinatown sometimes for lunch or what have you um it’s not big business it’s just a handful of people do it exactly um and and I think that it will take you to the train stations but you know you would be north of Chinatown so you would have um you’d

Have a lot more amenities putting putting the socks anywhere besides where they’re at you’re gonna have more amenities right yeah there’s just nothing there you’re near Little Italy you’re near pilson Chinatown like you mentioned the South Loop right so the times your paper did a Twitter poll that I just

Noticed here which best captures your initial reaction to talks of a new white sock stadium in the South Loop there were four choices okay number one was I love it and as I’m taping this with you that has 36.7% nope G rate is fine uh 9.1% re build at 35th and shields that’s

At 3.9% and then at a whopping 50.3% and this is going to enter into our next discussion this leads not on the taxpayers dime so how would this get funded that’s going to be if it is able to even go to the next step who’s paying for it that’s

What certainly Chicagoans want to know and and I can’t begin to answer answer that question because I don’t know um but I do know and I think you would agree that these kinds of deals involve multiple sources of funding it’s not just there’s there’s a lot of people got

To get their checkbooks out um and you know I think related Midwest uh which has some deal with ouchi to develop this property and obviously that hasn’t happened this was going to be a casino site this was there was going to be the casino here and instead that’s going over by the

Tribune which doesn’t really make a whole lot of sense but that’s what happened but you know the people in Chinatown didn’t want a casino that close to Chinatown um and so now we read that b is running buses between Chinatown and uh Madina Temple so you

Know I I don’t know I there’s no way you could do a project like this anywhere um whether it’s it’s there or Arlington Heights or Nashville or wherever you want that’s not going to involve some kind of government money because the government has to step up and and do

Whatever they do and justify it however they do you know um the Bears say they don’t want any well Ted Phillips Bears said they didn’t want any public financing for Arlington Heights but they would like help with expanding the roads and everything else well that’s public financing right right you can you can

Say you know um I I don’t need your help to buy this house I just want you to furnish it for me you know so but they’re they’re gonna there’s really no way that this could be done without any kind of government funding and it just

Wouldn’t be no no one would someone will Pony up the money that always happens that and that’s that’s the that’s where the Suburban problem becomes into because they’re not used to ponying up money for very large projects and they’re very small so it’s like like here you deal with one school district

Out there you got to deal with three and then you got this suburb complaining against that one I don’t want the traffic you’re G to get all the benefit I’m gonna get the cars and it’s just like the city doesn’t do that just kind they just do it right and so um wherever

This goes that’s going to be you know um I I don’t think there’s any way this could be done without Government funding we already have two government funded stadiums um that are uh in danger of being stuck with uh unpaid bills for a stadium that is no longer being

Used and somehow I think that’s got to enter into it too which I think is where the manso taking over putting the fire in there they they still give him some kind of tenant where they can get a little bit of rent I I I don’t know

That’s interesting and then I just look at this bearss games are there’s how many games are there a year eight nine you know 10 you know with preseason you have a baseball team that’s 81 games that’s 81 times where the doors are open and everything around the neighborhood is

Going to get some kind of revenue from all the fans if I’m the city I’m I don’t say I’m Bing over backwards but I’m trying to make this work with the white socks if that’s what want to do and I think there’s more benefits to not only

The White Sox but the city on paper to be in this spot if they can do it what do you think well I think that’s that gets back to your point about you know does the government pay but this is economic development you know you you

Have to you have to spend money to make money right so if if you want to to create a a new area with things coming into it restaurant whatever bars hotels you’re gonna have to you’re GNA have to Pony up I mean they do now um you know

The Ricketts didn’t get any money not that they didn’t want any money but um and then they’ve been able to turn that whole thing into like I live like right there but it’s just like there’s just too much stuff there right now it’s just like it’s it’s almost like an amusement

Park um on days when there’s no game there um so U I think they would try to replicate something like that I don’t know why they never tried to do that at socks Park uh because they certainly have plenty of space to do it yeah and I think there’s still people probably

Pining for mccu to come back um and you know it’s just not gonna happen that’s an old school bar is that we were referring to mccu oh am I dating myself well uh I I never frequented mccu but it certainly sounds like a White Sox bar if

I’ve ever heard of one it was a bar that was actually would have been like right on on the south side of 35th Street like um and they tore that down to put the and they Pro Thompson promised to put it back and that never happened never did

Well so the legend was that Babe Ruth would go in there and drink between Innings oh oh that’s that’s legendary that’s amazing what’s interesting is that so in my shot here for everyone who’s can watch this on YouTube I have a photograph of the 1906 World Series

Between the White Soxs and the Cubs this was during I think maybe game three but this was at Westside grounds so the Cubs used to play on the West Side before they played at what is now Wrigley Field to see what that Park looked like over 100 years ago and what this new

Proposed ballpark could look like by you know I guess it’ be 2030 that is uh quite an achievement in a little over 100 years what’s your take what’s your prediction what do you think happens going forward you know I I I really have no

Clue I I mean I do think that um if you look at the aial photographs of this site something needs to be built here something this like site should not be vacant at for whatever is there whether it’s a stadium um some kind of housing whatever um I think it would

Be uh as a white socks fan I think it would be a very interesting place to go see a ball game um it would be a lot more convenient to get there and there would be things to do uh when the game is over as opposed to trying to make a

Bel line to the L um so on the other hand you know do do you have a city Administration that uh has the ability and the aptitude to make this happen I don’t know you know I this is a mayor who you know I mean look at the problems

We’ve had with migrants now we’re going to on the other hand they wouldn’t actually be involved in this you would just have to give Rin dwarf the okay um I don’t know what the site would cost in terms of um you know what uh we would have to pay Mr

Ouchi who was apparently living in London for his site um I don’t know what related Midwest uh it’s interesting that related Midwest uh is is uh taking an active role in this because they have been trying to develop this site I mean they they put forth a casino proposal they had the

U ofi coming in there now that’s kind of like questionable if that’s going to happen so it’s just a question of who’s going to put up the money I’m not sure reinsdorf wants to put up all that much money you know now are there other are

There other leaders in town I don’t know I mean we used to have a a an owner uh Jim Tyree who was passed away and Jim was uh uh from Green Park and a very huge white socks fan working at mesro and um I happen to know that his goal in

Life was to buy the white socks well I he had the money uh but he’s not here anymore so are there other people out there like that that would that would step up and be willing to uh pay for this site I I I don’t know I

Mean when you if you want to keep the so the socks on the South Side I’m not really sure there’s many other places keep them unless you put it unless you build on old kamsky and what’s the point of that yeah this seems to be the spot

If you’re going to stay in the city and be on the south side you’re right there this on paper seems to be the spot at least on paper but you know it’d be interesting I don’t know if Brandon Johnson is a white socks fan but we knew fan okay so there we go

So he’s a Cubs fan uh it would have been interesting if mayor Lightfoot was still the mayor because we know she’s a DieHard white socks fan so I think she would seem to have been a little more I’m not saying Brandon Johnson mayor Johnson’s not on board with this but we

Know for sure 100% Larry lightford would try to make this happen right but but the question would be could she have yeah there’s a big there’s a lot of could and would the imanuel and Dy could make this happen yes yeah yeah do we have that do

We have that kind of a leader here right now I don’t know is that is that really what we need personally I do think that the city you can’t these are assets I I think you would agree with me on that you know sports teams are assets for the

City as a whole you know you see the you see the shots uh on TV you know there’s a civic pride there’s there’s all that that goes into it um you know if you lose your sports teams to um you know the Hinterlands whether that’s you know DuPage County or you know Nashville

You’re losing your civic pride a lot you’re losing you’re losing a lot of um uh of of your essence right of who you are you know you’re the city that nobody wants to be in anymore and I don’t think you want to be that it’s interesting you ended the

Article with a quote from Jerry rinor from August when he spoke to a handful of us in the media and I’m going to quote it here and it’ll lead to kind of how we’re going to wrap it up here quote this is Jerry R of talking here friends

Of mine have said why don’t you sell why don’t you get out and my answer has always been I like what I’m doing as bad as it is which is kind of funny he was referring to how bad last season was as bad as it is and what else would I do he

Continued I’m a boring guy I don’t play golf I don’t play bridge what else would I do and I want to make it better I want to make it better before I go now what do you read into that and why did you guys decide to end your

Article with that well I didn’t decide that so that was Fran um well he’s 87 years old you know I mean that’s a you know many of us won’t even make it that far and you know he knows himself as opposed to you know maybe there’s maybe he knows something we don’t know

Um I don’t think he wants to drag this out for three four five years um I think he’s trying to move expeditiously uh you know I I think that you know he does own another team in town and and even though they’re separate organizations there’s a lot of

Overlap on the employees and there’s uh there would be residual overlap if the Bull’s owner was let the baseball team leave town I I don’t know what that would do I he’s kind of in a different situation than anybody else I mean and frankly of all the teams they’re the only ones who

Could possibly leave I mean none of the other teams are ever consider leaving town it’s just not gonna happen but um if if he can’t do this or somebody offers them a lot of money um you know what I’m told is his Partners might be

Willing to take it uh you know I don’t know we don’t I don’t think anybody really knows all of the people who own the white socks um you know we know a few but I think there’s a larger number of people that are have some sort minority investors from the past yeah

And and maybe they want to cash out um at ways that you know uh that’s not a viable option right now um I mean he does have a pretty sweet deal right now at at um uh socks Park where the rent is is basically negligible because their

Attendance is so poor because the team is so you know I mean there’s a you you know this I’m G watch you all the time you know you you you’ve got you know when you’re when you’re talking about the largest contract in history it goes to Anthony Ben and tendi that doesn’t

Really that’s not something to be proud of you know it’s just sort of like that’s the best we could do for this kind of money you know they’re never in the game for those bigname players until they’re like you know like got a year or two left that they’re just dragging

Around like a Ken griffy or something you know so you never really get that excitement you know and it’s like you know are they gonna keep a Lewis Roberts or are they gonna like blow that too you know at some point you gotta you gotta generate excitement well Wrigley field

Has always been a tourist destination I felt like when kamsky Park was here old kamsky park that was a tourist destination maybe not as much as Wrigley but pretty much right up there because of the history I I would say from my seat the white socks need to have a park that is

A tourist destination you put a ballpark in that spot fans are going to come see that there will be Buzz there will be excitement and that could open a a brand new and exciting era era for the white socks and we’ll see what happens your story Tim is uh has got everybody

Talking and and dreaming and dreaming on a on a very nice warm day here right yes we need all the warmth we can get uh Hey Tim thank you so much for your time your knowledge your information and the story and uh we shall see I would love in the year 2030

To be able to look back at this convers ation and say this is where it all began and look where we are now it would be fun to sit there you know um I don’t know it’s uh as long as there’s a product worth watching well that’s number one because

It’s hard some it’s hard to go to socks Park these days it’s hard that’s a whole other conversation which we have a lot on this podcast so uh let’s let’s shove that for another one uh but clearly you’re a White Sox fan and a frustrated one and this is an

Interesting story for sure Tim thanks again for you and your colleagues for the story in the Chicago Sun Times and for appearing on the podcast I appreciate it thank you okay thanks our Chuck and this edition of the white socks Talk podcast is over