#45 – Roundtable Stories with Alex Partridge, Al Heathcote & Ben Lewis

In this episode of Last Stroke Counts, we bring you a delightful roundtable panel of Brookes rowing legends Alex Partridge, Al Heathcote & Ben Lewis.

Alex and Al, who clinched silver together at the Beijing Olympics in the men’s eight, reunite with Ben to share a treasure trove of hilarious stories from their illustrious rowing careers. Al Heathcote, currently the General Manager of Leander Club and a former member of the British Armed Forces, brings a unique perspective, comparing the disciplines of army training and competitive rowing.

The conversation shares many light-hearted insights, filled with hilarious anecdotes, reflections on the sport’s evolution over two decades, and the essence of what makes rowing such a compelling and life-shaping sport. From tales of camaraderie and mental resilience to Al’s humorous recounts of his multiple ‘retirements’ and Alex’s memory of a rare victory over the dominant Deutschland Achter, the stories strike as smoothly as a ’mighty fine oar’.

So, tune in & join us as we delve into the fun side of rowing, where every last stroke truly counts.

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If you don’t know exactly what your plan is going into that race and you’ve done it before then it’s a different ball game and this is what this was what the Olympic final was like in London in 2012 was like you know it’s a big difference sitting there the night before the final

Going we’re going to do something we’ve never done before right we’ve never done this we are going to lead the ger we’re going to go as hard as we can until the lead and we’re going to keep going until that point and that means that we could blow our doors Off hey what is up welcome to lastro counts we’ve got a fantastic episode planned out today we have a panel consisting of Alex partridge Alisa heco and Ben Lewis uh which all of them are Brooks and British roaring Legends so it’s with great pleasure that we can welcome you all to the

Podcast thanks very much thanks for thanks for coming guys obviously big thanks for for Alex for helping us um set this up um uh a whole bunch of things we’ll get into which I think will be really fun but uh just even before we start filming you guys all sort sort of

Arguing about all sorts so I’m sure I’m sure we’ll have fun with all that um obviously we’ve had Alex and Ben on the podcast before I won’t I won’t make you introduce yourself I want to get Alex to introduce Al just for some of your uh um

Highlights me introdu that well so uh yeah I’m well it’s a great privilege to be next to uh Mr alist heit uh I think the last time we did a an interview together was in Beijing where um he was uh preparing to be uh an oil boy an oil boy

You can cut that genious yeah it can still be found by the way yeah applying for positions in the Swedish volleyball team um but um yeah so Al you know Al was one of um one of the guys both Al and Ben were one of the

Guys I looked up to when I was at school uh in rowing um what looked looked at them going past a rapid speed or never saw at all um but yeah Al I was at eaten and and Newcastle and then we had the you know the privilege to had the

Privilege to kind of row with him at Brooks um and then and then many years later um in the British uh in the British team uh and the same eight um in uh in Beijing um we we briefly tried a St pair combination that didn’t work

Very well at all with me behind him um and uh and we were all for yeah it was very bad um and then uh and then we you know went on to uh to get a silver medal um you know what you know what could have

Been in better uh in Beijing uh which was pretty awesome and one of the best you know best best boats and funnest times I ever had in my own career awesome and we again just discussed just before we got on a that um like any good

Rower you managed to retire a few times and then come back to the I’ve retired more times than I mean are you going to try and take I think in my I think in the period when I was trying to get in the British team and this is no joke

This is not exaggeration I I counted once I retired 25 times that’s in under a year it’s like someone trying to quit smoking is I don’t know what it is but let’s just hope I don’t get into anything else because uh that has any addictive kind of function to it

Because it’s never going to stop but I did eventually retire finally because um I think the last time I actually I think I wrote I I put down my a off the Olympic final and in my head that was a going to be it that was like that is it

I’m this is going to be one of those stories I tell like I’m will never pick this I don’t know what ever again and then I think I ra the head the river for Moy or something yes you did I you for like and you were like come on just and

I I I was like there’s not a chance in hell I will ever do this you’re never going to make me do it just come down for one row one pre preh Heather River I said I’ll just be drinking and smoking for the last eight months how could I

Possibly get get through the the riveral game 10 game 10 but but I mean I was good for about that’s good to about the band stand in 10 the band stand I just say there’s nothing and then you could hear the Click Click of the suitcase

Apron I get my deck chair out there’s nothing make you regret your your decision to come back to that the only other time I that’s like um when we when I did a comeback in 2016 um and uh and it was uh me a guy called Dave Gillard and Rick eggington

And you came back and Lucas spck you know he’s like four time maybe five time Olympic medalists and uh we we were preparing for the head of the river and uh we did the reading head and uh and we were in the in that the eight together

Um and and Brooks had all the Telemetry and all the measurement of all the Watts and Richard was like Richard and Henry like took myself and Luca to the side and um and they were like why you guys absolutely bril they were like um you know Alex you know you were like 450

Watts for minutes and they were like LCA you know absolutely phenomenal Peak power you were like 600 watts but for 3 minutes of the 17 minute race they’re like what we want you to do is we want you to spread that out because you were 600 and then you were

150 LCA didn’t take it very well did he I think no no no so he pulled even harder in the second second second race is reading head I mean U but but he was an awesome guy to to row it it was pretty cool yeah cool

Um so then I guess a bit of the the sort of coming in and out of R was also with you being in the Army was that kind ofing and starting it I mean what so Alex was mentioning this before we we started this um I finished Brooks and

Then Sprat said um that they need a spare pair up in uh Setta for the for the for the altit C and um and he said I I I remember this like I wish I you know had recorded it because there was proof there that there

Was something there was a light the end of the tunnel for this cuz he kind of semi- promised that if we did well up there we we’d get potentially to be looked at for the World Championships I mean probably they’re like Cox four or something but whatever and I thought

Okay well I’ll go out for that because that’s you know I might be able to get anyway we went up there and um and it was me and jayon Malon sorry and um and we just got stuck into it and it was I mean it was pretty bad but um Yogen said

We need a ster we need a bider um and ier you both anyway I can’t remember which side I was on anyway I was on one side and I hadn’t rode on the other side I think yeah that’s right I never read on bside and um and I said on b side

Well no no no hold on I was on no no no oh anyway whatever but I hadn’t rode on the side for a long time and then um and I said to spratley look is it okay you know is he does he understand that I’m not actually on that side and he’s like

Yeah yeah whatever he doesn’t matter doesn’t matter so I started around I thought I can’t show anyone my hands cuz they are so [ __ ] so uh you can swear that’s [ __ ] and uh and then one day I was at breakfast and go what chister what’s why

Are you showing your hands on the table turned them over and I turned them over and they there was just no skin on anywh you need to go to the hosital Hospital down the mountain and I said okay fine I’m he’s going to take me no no one

Takes you you go on my bike where’s the where’s the where is the hospital he’s like oh he’s 25 miles down the mountain whatever it was probably five anyway so I had to cycle down at cycle up and then he said and uh when you come up you tell me and my son

You will race my son from the bottom of the mountain to the top of the mountain I’m not to do the accent anyway and um and I said okay uh so he’s your son oh here he is he’s coming up he’s like a 4 fo8 4 fo8 cyclist you his proper cyclist

And he goes you race him and you’ll beat him and I was like oh I don’t really ride bikes and what bike am I going to use oh you use my bike I was like where’s your bike there had a BOS on the front Bell three gears a proper coach I

Mean I I obviously lost to him but not by that much and bloody and that was the most painful thing I ever did up there was that where I was get this I think it was rambling but um no you had that hope yeah yeah and then I got to the end and

I think we got to about three calls the way through and I said you can have a quiet word cuz um said Richard scr said um you know we might get a chance to the world chance and he goes no why would you do why would we do that like me call

Oh that was never the plan and I was like oh right okay and from that moment I just checked out he said oh can you do an oo and I just used to get an the YO in the in the shed whatever and then

Just go up to the bar and have a coffee and watch that r r i did about 400 m of the 16 KGO and by the end of the cam I was so on fed I done anything anyway there you go so what year was that 20014 no no no that was

2001 it was 2001 no it wasn’t no it wasn’t yes it was he was in F in 2004 2001 I I’m joined the army I joined the army in 2001 so it must have been before that it was one it was after hle no um it was yeah cu yeah it was A1

Definitely oh right okay yeah yeah we were yeah yeah so then so that’s when you sort of finished rowing and went into the army uh yeah and then after that I thought you know this is kind of what’s the point you know um and also I wasn’t that into rowing anyway um really

Ever no really even we had stormy ARS in the corner of wi you hate I hate this never an awful sport think time several times in one out it is is is not a fun sport I don’t know why anyone does it I’m I’m glad everyone’s

Into it he’s listening to this but I’m I’m certainly not um you’re pretty consistent over the 20 odd years yeah I’m just very good at complaining about are actually in one of the best but the no yeah so I think I I went that’s right I mean I just thought this

Is great cuz I can go and be something else and then never have to worry about R anymore and then yeah join the Army straight after that really and then the wif for the Army yeah but that cuz someone want to meet again and they retired again retired

Again it was it wasn’t really it wasn’t proper serious rowing that that was just I was like Ro in the four Subs that you beat in the handy final that yeah they’ been Temp and then Al ended up coaching attempt yeah didn’t attempts yeah so how did you end up

Going that much he’s retired three times from when Henley retired retire from well what is the only thing you know it’s the only thing you’re know you’re desperate you just think what else am I going to do with my life what was the draw then was just to just to push

Yourself push your limits sorry like to keep R to go back uh no it was just I I don’t know I don’t know about anyone else but I just I’ll find like I just if there are good friends who are doing it and it’s fun well it’s not fun but the

Friends are fun uh then you end up doing whatever you know that’s probably why I join the Army I mean it’s not like I want to crawl around in the mud and you know get shot but yeah exactly and I think that’s probably why a lot of people do a lot of

These things CU it’s not about necessarily all about doing the thing itself but you know that’s a group people oh you want to do the try and win the wolds and if there’s a chance of winning something at Henley and you know it’s a good chance of doing it and it’s

Not going to be that honorous so like you know spend four years doing the training or something just dip in and out like the Olympics then um then then it might be worth doing so so yeah we just I think that’s com we do you know we are I think

Before the RO Falls we we only did I think we did less than 10 outings because we had to do well cu no one you can train together because everyone’s all over the country or abroad or whatever so um we did our own program um

You know we just had to ERG and I mean it’s not like we didn’t need training we did lot of training but all on your own time um like urg and things and then and then we yeah I think we had like eight outings yeah before the

Rata and then we when we actually got here to and we did more outings on the on the course just before the G than we did the entire year good thing about the club events that 5-day event like you have a chance to come yeah come together cuz then

Finally you’re you know yeah cuz there’s tensity about it I mean that is I mean I did notice that actually I would say not not not not not from you know my personal perspective but having coached the temps but it is for me the more most

Impressive type of of rower is a club rower because of all the other like requirements they have in their life like some are married they got kids they got a job I mean it is the easiest thing the laziest and easiest thing in the

World to row as a student you you are a lazy person the most of them just lazy people who have one thing and that is rowing and they do that and they use all their energy to do rowing but nothing else cuz I I did it myself I just rode

And didn’t do any academic work it’s physically hard Club rows I mean I mean I just it just boggles my mind like it is unbelievable but also but like I found when I was working when I in 2016 you know like when I was working in roow it

Was such a good uh release you know I had kids I was driving all the country I threw the Ergo in the back of the car I was doing Eros on dark Mo and all of that kind of stuff but it’s like it was like the one thing in your day that you

Were looking forward to that could just separate you from the rest of the world you you know it you know I found it the most rewarding I didn’t and it separated you from everyone else you were working with right cuz you everyone else he’s just doing the same mundane thing that

You do day in day out and you were you were actually doing something that had a purpose and had a goal yeah you know I made you feel important kind of thing I was point about clay actually because he obviously did do he did Coach TS um he

Probably isn’t recognized enough he what I put those guys to at 10 years ago to turn them around it was brutal I I won my red box here with a full-time job and it was the most tired I’ve ever been and I’ve got three kids uh it nearly completely broke

Me doing all the training fting hour jot and point those guys in the city James padmore type guys so I mean Al of 2016 it is absolutely brutal yeah I mean I can’t someone else for were talking to the other thing you don’t realize is

That if you row as a club row with a full-time job every single day of your leave will go on your trading camp and your Henley week spare cash there’s no other holiday yeah that’s your holiday is is training camp exactly yeah yeah I mean you can’t do it

For many oh some people excuse me some people did it for many years but I mean how they did that I don’t know leer you yeah but most people like you you know I think there a lot of people who like were good at you know quite good at

School or whatever and then they like never quite won the Medal and they want to do it and they my only chance to do this is to do it whil I work at the same time and I got to join a club and they

Do it for a year maybe two years Max to do it and if it doesn’t fa doesn’t work I mean that is that’s quite a lot of effort to put in to not get you know to not achieve your goal so yeah love St for like James Lindsay fin you know

Making the Olympic team when he’s pretty much yeah very full time sorry work that’s how it all was back in the day you know the the s brothers were training around jobs and how hell they did that interval training in the morning and weights in the evening and

You trying to go to the Olympics was basically was Club rowing just with bigger BLS didn’t Tim Foster say that he was working at a fish Monon and then commuting like from Bedford all the way to London and then back all in the same day like but like I think you know I

Think I well that’s I think the diff you know the difference I think in the international level versus the club level in those days was was not such a big gap um I think I think the club level has definitely moved on but not hugely uh and it’s not distributed

Equally across I think certainly the UK um but the international level is another level again now you know they there’s just not possible well you paid to training W cob they still fing the training’s got smarter the Bas got better but your hasn’t fundamentally changed that much when I was Runing 10

SC when I was 19 yeah but it can’t change much no can’t restra by all the time and well Internationals now you know how much more training can they then you know like people who do Iron Man you know Iron Man’s and try athletes and stuff like that on their spare time

And they work and they pump all their money into like a nice bike and all that sort of stuff they get up at 4:00 a.m. and like their four hour cyc before work I mean it happens did you do that for you on man I didn’t do any of that did man I

Did man but the furthest I’d ever cycled was 60 miles in my entire life and I did that once yeah I I think I think when you when you were training like that when you would be whether it’s an Iron Man or and you’re working like getting up at 4

In the morning there’s a there’s a sort of I mean this is there’s a a purpose in life outside of just life you know there’s a real reason and also you talked about why do you do it you do it because you’re doing it well not Iron Man but

For certainly I was doing it because I did not want to let down my mates do you know what I mean so like I woke up I did the train when you were training for the walls in the Army you were in different places and it’s the same with me when I

Was back at Brookton 2016 I I wanted to do the training because I didn’t want to let my maze down yeah and I wanted to get you know good scores because I wanted to to to to show them and push them on but it gives you a you know much

Bigger purpose than just everyday you know normal grind you know and and you know it’s only finite as well you know it’s going to finish you know first weekend in July and then a up as IM Grant said that I her podcast was brilliant she said if

You want to do it you’ll find a way yeah that is the end of the day is what is your if your burning desire is enough now obviously I would do a year on a year off that’s why you know kept him going he’s obviously talented enough for

It to work but um in’s Point spot on if you want to do it if I get at 5 in the morning you’ll do it yeah and just just to add to that purpose like when you’re an athlete and you’re training especially towards something like the Olympics you carry yourself differently

Every day you wake up okay I’m doing something important and you know you have to like really look after yourself and like that attitude like carries into all the other aspects of your life as well cuz then you you’re not just a regular person you you’re actually you

Know out here Conquering the world almost you get that sense of it you’re probably you’re on the one hand you’re not you’re just kind of RAR backwards and like on some random 2K C like it doesn’t mean backwards down the river yeah but but at the same time it does

Yeah and it makes you feel like you know you’re getting the most out of yourself like actually yeah I I really struggled with that I really struggled with that when I was rowing you know I didn’t understand why it was important and it’s not really important to anybody else in

The world but I I I was like you know I’m getting money to do this fulltime and I was like you know what does this mean for anybody else in the world it doesn’t really mean anything you know me it’s not like I’m saving people’s lives

Or do you know and I used to really really struggle So when you say you know you carry yourself different I actually used to live in this kind of really confused uh place where you know I was doing something I absolutely loved I was living in a sort of state of paranoia

About if I don’t do well today I’m going to lose my place you know and then I was also strugg you know and I really this is something that I’ve aspired to my whole life but why is that important you know um and actually what does it matter

It doesn’t matter and um and and and I think you know I really really struggled with that the whole time so when you say walk around this per per you know this sense of diff difference for me you know I walk around with this kind of sense of

Confusion of like you know really should I be doing this T to do your hobby yeah is is fair on everyone else you know what what benefit does this give society and then I look at but then I finish throwing and I realized actually yeah what benefit

Does a lot of what anybody does benefit society and actually what I was doing is I was doing something really to the best of my ability to the absolute best of my ability um that you get rarely get the chance to do and then that’s showing other people that they can do other

Things to their best of their I mean so for example my son you know now he he loves rugby and he’s like his goal is not you know I want to play well for an Ys he’s like I play for England that’s it yeah yeah I his mind and so suddenly

He’s switched you know he’s 10 years old he’s training three times a week he’s doing all the extra stuff I mean he’s doing bench press in the garage my son my son said the same thing so we’ll see where they are in about 10 years broken

Probably I I asked my daughter be on a rad she’s like that looks like the worst thing in inre world and I was like well you’re definitely my daughter you would have been a worry at one point whether she was but now I’m absolutely convinced

Yeah yeah but my so none of my kids you know have a desire and I don’t want to you the right I think you hit the nail on the head yeah it’s it’s like Pursuit of Excellence like being as good as you can be in whatever you do and like you

Said even though it doesn’t whether someone has an interest in wearing or not and showing people that you can I think with that it comes if you were doing it at that level I mean certainly I found it and no one’s going to disagree with me on this because um it’s

Just a fact but it’s not you lose the you lose the uh when you get into the International System of doing things you give up the enjoyment or or the the benefit of the kind of teen C camaraderie type thing to some extent because of there consistent testing

Consistent like worry that you’re going to you know every single time every single day so you never actually get you never really you never really feel like you’re in a team like you do if you’re I mean I spoke speak to like Oxbridge people and that is like the Pinnacle of

Like teen camarad I’ve ever heard or seen in my entire life like they’re all still M and they’ll they’ll have a reunion every year till the day they die whereas like when have we ever got together yeah we been literally never never we’ve never all got together

Never ever ever and we’ll be coming up to TW nearly 20 years I mean you know it’s it’s weird though because it’s just such a you think I think other 24 years other heads they think oh well you know like an Olympic team they’re you know they’re just they bonded and all this

And you’re like is not the same thing is like a consistent you’re only getting a team and even then you’re thinking am might get you know if I do something wrong I’m going to get dropped even almost up to the last minute you’re like and then finally get on the the the the

Start line of the final of the Olympics you think [ __ ] I’m I’m in the crew now or or like if you in the crew if you do do something it’s like oh maybe so and so is going to tell on me do you know

What I mean like if if I do the wrong thing they’re going to like you know when I you know it’s like I you know I missed a a tour of um tenan Square when we did a a tour in Beijing because a group of us gone out blowing our eard

Drums out at a nightclub that H you didn’t go um it was but no being included no no no Beijing we went out to Beijing in 2007 yeah so he would you you would have been there with me yeah that’s the one thing I would have enjoyed we all go

Out someone someone on bide in the boat that I was in in 2007 goes oh where’s Alex Partridge and it’s like you know whereas a Brooks or you know you would have covered everyone’s backs you Alex he’s here oh he’s the back you know and uh because because it was all

One upmanship and you know but not so I can’t you know like so for example I was in the team with langers and Rick pretty much like all the way through my career you know and I’m really you know I would have consider them like you know

Brothers when I was you know in the team um uh but do we see each other you know very often now like it’s hard well I left I because of my back I left a bit earlier than the guys I went in the team with and then like so if they’re still

In the system you or not it’s impossible cuz they’re still like 100% focused on that and then you got to go and like do a job and make some money and do things like that um but I think that’s a good point like we spoke there’s quite a few people really kind of

Mentioned that um it seemed probably more of an oldfashioned way of doing things but there are a lot of coaches that still like the stick and they’re still trying to pck you against each other every day because they think that will progress they listening to my ales yesterday and then listening to these

Two you think they’re you’re talking two different totally they’re now they’re now is a different regime yeah and he was saying now he’s find it more relaxing the team than he did at Brooks yeah if I remember that correctly from this yesterday because these guys they

Were on edge the whole time I mean both I’m not saying she’s right or wrong but it’s quite interesting listen to the comparison years ago to now it was the hardest I don’t know what you thought but it was the hardest thing so like for example like Tom James DJ you know he

And I were in the team for ages I think he one of you he’s a fantastic roarer we seriously respected each other we really got along but like you know we knew it was me or him the whole time and um you’ve got this you got this crazy

Dichotomy where but I knew if I was in a boat with him I wanted him to be as good as he possibly could right so when he suffering on the year ago on you know the bad days I’m going up to him U and the same vice versa but then you’re

You’re you’re SE racing you know three days later and you’re not talking to each other and you’re basically telling you know I’m telling out right just you pull off for me don’t pull off you know or uh or or whatever and then it’s hard you only

Have one you only have one one run in you anyway like who wants Al the exactly you guys got the KE I definitely there was a par there was a Paris Matrix there was a Paris Matrix in Seville in 200 2004 and uh there were some stroke

Siders like you had Rick D Ken West and a couple others and I got pulled into this and that was how I got my uh pretty much how I got my seat in the four and it was like oh you know who do you want first and I was like I’ll take

Kieran I’ll take Kieran and like he just like blasted down the course and then yeah um so how late did you come into the team then before 8 you just did one season um 2007 uh I think I did 18 months yeah not even that pushing you Robbin off up in

Boston and about to S Tri and when your good littlear you be wearing an army pushing off you take piss out Rob and that would have been December 06 because pansy was I was working here for pansy and I remember saying to Pansy put that

Army pair in the St B right a lot faster then yeah yeah did 18 month the team I think yeah I think um I he Captain salary at the same time I might add as his talking about Alex saying he felt like bit of a fraud walking around doing

His hobby there was Al PA to be a British Army captain and on National Lottery fund no he wasn’t he was funded he wasn’t I wasn’t funded then you’re not no after I was you were not7 not7 after no no no um but after yeah yeah oh

You’re right and then did the did the army use you for uh well I mean they they’re just supported I mean to be honest I I had given them six six and a half years um where i’ done everything I you know I didn’t take any time out and

Actually I had um CU at the time I was working down in um uh in lorth at a at armored armored Gunnery school and I was the 30 mm title for a job 30 mm Gunner instructor course officer or something like that and he wouldn’t mean anything

To anyone and it’s it’s a skill that’s lost now because they don’t even use that weapon anymore um so but anyway I was down there with with Robin and we were training there I mean he said oh you know it’s a very long story this um

He said oh you know I was I knew who he was when he cuz I used to instruct all sorts of people whether it was a soldier to up to like Colonels CU they had something to do with that particular kind of weapon it was on a tank and

Anyway so people come through and one day Robin kield on the young scour and them and he was like oh yeah you know if K Bri team you know I’ll see tren’s a and I’m going to pass pner and I need someone and he’s like what do you want

To an AR I mean I just laughed at him I was like you know this is just never going to happen but okay that was the kind of weird thing in impossible situation I’m in am I going to do it yo and um anyway so we we kind of sort

Of trend together Johnny sing fil was like okay yeah I think just uh you know amazing brilliant I know we’ve laughed a few times before about people sort of saying like you can’t accidentally get to the Olympics this s of sounds like you have like up on something then how

On this start while hating the sport in on the but but but in in you know in in kind of but anyway the point about the like did the army look you know how do they support you um so I so they they basically I mean it’s abely fair they

Were like okay you got to you got to work fulltime for the Army until the point where the Bri teams say to us can you release this person to come TR full time and then I think I can’t remember where we came in the in the in the long

Distance trial but any was within the top seven pairs maybe fifth six um and um they were like and then the was like look can you you know put me in touch with your you know the colonel of the regiment whatever and then then they said yeah okay well you’ve got you’ve

Got you know you’ve got as as long as it takes up to the Olympics and if you get to the Olympics then great but if if you don’t the minute the minute you don’t you know achieve something and they don’t want you there anymore you got to

Come straight back and you go to Afghanistan or Iraq or whatever and so you know there was that double pressure cuz you were like well it’s it going to look embarrassing if I go off telling everyone in the Army yeah we’re going to go the olymics and and then I’m back

Like two months later or something and it would just look yeah it just be embarrassing and then my my I can say this cuz I don’t know where he is or who he is anymore remember his name but um my sergeant who was like my 2ic for my

Course he was this chippy guy and he was like yeah Mr es you’ll never get anywhere and Rowing like you just you can’t I can beat you on that because we a bft it’s called the basic fitness test and he was a runner and he was always

Like I can I I’ll beat you every time it’s really chippy I’ll beat you every time on that test and I was like I don’t really care about this running thing and Rowan you probably know better at that either and now if you if you get in the

Olympics I’ll eat my berry I I’ll sit here in the tank Park and everyone watch me you can watch me eat my Barry I’ll cut it up and eat piece by piece and I remember Crossing that line old the Olympics and thinking when am I going to arrange this

Time back and it was like the thing that was spurring me on I was like can’t wait to get back to England get down to L get all the sergeants around Chop Chop that Barry out make him eat him did he well he wasn’t there while wearing your

Olympic medal but yeah anyway and the yeah the Army were amazing they just were like you know this is beneficial to the Army for recruits and whatever as well as you know and and and they were like when you finish you come back and and Robin went straight to Afghanistan I

Me like three weeks later or something wow and one of Queen Dy cross for bravery out there you bloody amazing no three we but it was like but I mean well I mean did train I mean he wanted to go as quick as he could he almost went

Straight straight there that’s we sort of spoke briefly with Ben saying that um Leander owns yeah Robin B Taylor and Owen Davies bigest garage crosses two of how many that were awarded yeah two out of 40 from this club goo and Davies 40 in the world no there were 40 awarded in

Afghanistan years and two it’s quite it’s one of it’s a very new award um yeah two of them from this club which is pretty good game so at any point after getting an Olympic silver Medal did you think um this rowing is actually quite fun I might be enjoying this a

Little bit oh my God it made me even hate it even more I mean no I mean you know I could feel myself you know I I you mastered around in the Army a lot like there is nothing in the Army physically that is in any way like

Biomechanics looked after or that you’ll just smash to Pieces the whole time there’s no like physio or anything like this so I could really feel I could really feel myself like with the training load like suffering like it’s just you know wear and tear you know

Like my knees and my my ankles are ruined at the moment and like I’ve got a back injury and that was from the Army and then that didn’t get any better and I just thought you know if I I feel like if I did one more season even not even a

Season like I would just break I mean I was at that physical point where you’re like I just the train but also like the training that we did I mean I’m not saying that any of the training that the team does now I think the training that

We did with uran back in ‘ 08 you know it was brutal because like it was just every Ergo was what score are you getting you know every single so there was like no steady you know State and every time you’re on the water I mean Al

Was really good on the water right and great to rep pair but you know you need to get stuff where your nose is in front so you’d be bading steady state be like you know we’ be just absolutely hosing you know uh all the other Pairs and um

See your body was just on that kind of thin thin you know Thin Red Line uh it was brutal back then I remember doing like a 16k young like go downstairs do your 16k steady state Ergo and I would sit next to like Pete Pete Reed and he’d

Be like pulling 146 and I was like well I need to be better than that said I’m going to get 145 point and I was like red lining it for 16k on a Tuesday like before lunch with and there was no one even in the room like I’m like what am I

Doing you know and then I’m absolutely ruined for the rest of the week and it’s just that mentality was like just when the coach is like this is a proper ut2 Ergo everyone just ut2 and oh by the way here’s the sheet and you’re all

Going to put your name and score up and then I’m going to look at it afterwards and I’m probably going to congratulate whoever went the fastest but it’s just you two but I me that’s exactly like you know going back to you talking Matt you had Matt orridge on here on the um

Podcast the other day and he’s a Fant I’m so pleased for them um but he still haven’t gone below 545 yet in the uh on the water so but you know we’ll see see how fast it can get oh yeah um but um you know and the kind of the culture and

Team and stuff like we had such a brutal intensity and from from coming from you know are that’s one of the things I really struggled with cuz I was at Brooks with these guys and when we went rowing it was so much fun I mean the bus

Journey Down was hilarious and the bus Journey back if you got were lies gold uh you know was and our our trips and and we trained hard together but it was such a laugh and we’ve trained hard and we played even harder and Al was

Like one of the best Al and B were one of the you fact share the house didn’t you uh no no no was with Aiden uh no we didn’t I was living with Jo definitely oh right yeah okay um but like uh and it was just brilliant I love running with

These guys at Brooks and but you know up to uh um from from 20 when I got into the team in 2001 um you know I was in there with like Danley and um uh you know Joe mson jonno Andy Hodge she like there was just

No fun yeah it was just not fun at all I I remember we held the Christmas you know the the one party we held of the year was like the Christmas party after everyone had done the 2K at our house and like I was in bed by 8:00 because um

I had tonsilitis you know straight away up a year ago and you know that was my whole Christmas written up and there was just no you know and everyone was left by half nine um uh and and and I remember you know I enjoyed the progress but I just remember like the total

Silence in the crew room in Hammersmith you know there’s the cold dang wet room upstairs in the gym there you know down in Hammersmith by house the AR um and just like the terrible food and no banter like just zero it was basically like the Oxford people slagging off the

Cambridge people it’s like it’s Kieran West Tom stalard Ben bur and uh Rober B Taylor the B you know I just sat there like this is rubbish um and we were going slow we just got went backwards and then and it was a bit better Robin

Was you know quite you know Robin and I had Road together as Juni but it got a bit better when he was there um but like jonno from Brooks from the Brooks days jonno dein you know I’m awesome guy but like super like super quiet guy and so like we gone

From this such hilarious awesome fun atmosphere to rowing down there where it was just like so Bleak and then through 2004 you know uh okay I got better but like I just still wasn’t really enjoying it and then I the whole big thing but so the 2005 you know winning stuff but

Still like just really lacking that fun so when Al got in the team in 2007 I was like it was like either know someone it was fun and funny again and then I remember cuz I’d been rowing in that for with Pete and Andy and Steve Steve

William super serious guy super quiet I heard I think Mo said that if there was like a bad session he wouldn’t sit in the crew and me go and sit in his car yeah yeah or if you lost you know you did hear from him for like three months

I remember like Steve Steve Steve all a n out but you know Steve came up to me and he was like oh you know um when we rote a pair get it for 3 years and he’s like you know you and I never really saw eye to eye and I was

Like what and he goes yeah we never saw eye to eye and I was like I was like well me if you had told me I would have done something about it I thought we were getting on fine but you know that’s probably also my fault but anyway so I

Was in that four super serious Pete was super serious Andy was you know pretty laidback and then I lost my place in the four and I came into the eight and it was just like this massive like relief rest and freshh air R like ow and then

You know Robin was in the eight and Josh West and um you know just all Tom Lucy and and the first thing we did we made first thing we did out brother’s music he went out in London so so remember that I I I thought this is going to be so serious no

No no this is way before that this is like right when we I feel was right when we saw and we went out of London to John West house in oh I didn’t know that was before EP in the8 before that was the year before right anyway I was thinking

And I was like and it was just you know these guys who probably never it it felt like no one had ever been out to a PO before or like to a nightclub or anything and I was just like this I’ve been you know I’ve been drinking with like soldiers

Like Paras in like catrick and you know that what they got this is nothing like that like this is another level and it was just cornage I just couldn’t believe the behavior this going on I was like this is just you know anyway but um and

So I thought you know but I could probably do this there aren’t many opportunities to let the Press from zero to a thousand yeah I I I wouldn’t I wouldn’t have carried on um after 2008 unless I’d got into that eight um and had the it remembered it reminded me why I love

Rowing again and it was fun every hour thing was F I think the point of grow his nights out are insane i al as general manager of this place will know come Saturday very serious very serious yes brother Al saying that Ro is on Night Out is Lev and above par night out

Probably was par a bit more St and slight yes cuz there’s only like three opportunities isn’t it so when you go you go yeah pretty well yeah all all say is the importance of uh just enjoying you know I think you get you are so much better when you’re enjoying what you’re

Do I think the guys now teams now not soly you know the results you car nor was a very interesting guy to talk to he never coached me coach you um but now it seems like they’re trying to get the balance right a little bit more that old

Was talking about I know um uh for you in in 2010 you’re trying to make it a bit more we had fun yeah we trying to use social media and all the rest of say look we are doing what we love so now something the best you keep hearing when

You you’re privileged enough to do something you life you need to enjoy it you into the process and I say one of the things that like I was broken I Shi away from the team a bit I I knew I’d break I wouldn’t blast way big but it’s

Like doesn’t look like an awful off it’s a bit of there’s a sense of like I’m in the national team now I have to take this so like I remember when I first came to Leander thinking like I’m going to have to be like so serious every day

And then I happened to bump into Owen and Welco I think I said this before there was two of them they were I I got introduced to them like literally the first day I came down and they were they were just looking at photos from golf at

The weekend and Owen had been doing some disgusting things so yeah they that was quite nice to sort of feel like oh okay like we’ll take the rowing seriously but we’ll still I think the guys are grow still we went out a lot let’s be on yeah

To of team but I think now they they Still Smoked while we were we did um I do remember Al and I having a lot of beers and then rocking up to trials after about three outings we did quite well if we stopped getting pissed every week we could do really

Quite well but it was never h yeah but way look I think I think painting the wrong picture painting the wrong picture of like it’s not about it’s not about just getting pissed out bu it’s about just having an absolute laugh like doing silly things like you

Know yeah that that that was what I loved them it wasn’t CU like you can barely remember the nights out right but you can remember the you know where you we that water water bottle uh a hot water bottle uh competition to see you

Could blow it up uh the most in the mini bus on the way hand yeah I think you just I think you just I think it’s more about the kind of atmosphere I me I think maybe it’s the coaches or the system or something I don’t know but like unless

You’re given unless you given like they need to create an environment where you feel like you’re not being unduly pressured the whole time by the the whole method of the system and I think it can completely pass you by maybe as a coach I don’t know you don’t realize the

Impact you’re having on everyone if you’re creating this like environment of just pressure so and it’s just not just seeds like just concern and an anxiety and you know 100% so I think yeah I think that also the interesting point then is like to so compare that to the

Army obviously sport really is kind of like a safe War isn’t it in some respect um and you have that camarad in all those things so if you compare that to like obviously the British army like how do they get that thing right especially in an even more higher more intense so

There you go did he did he run it as you would have run a company two yeah 16y old 16y old exactly ring the bell of L if you going to uh yeah but I mean like there’s a fun aspect to that you know if you’re like

Trying to you know when you’re a kid when you’re a kid like as a boy you know what you do you play you know fake War stuff fresh and F and the idea the arm is really f obviously there’s obv it’s not not all

Fun G but um hey but I mean I I think the Army side of things is I mean like a sort of camaraderie like you’ve never seen because that’s what it’s all based on and you know the whole idea that you kind of look after each other and and

That is sewn the seed is SE from day one and and a lot of these things I think just happen because naturally because if you’re in a group of people you spend a lot of time together you do something really horrible together then that creates the

Camaraderie on its own you don’t need to do anything to make that happen because you know if you your mates your University I mean if I compare that to people as University with where there was no none of this but we all went out we had lots of fun together the whole

Time and D talk about NE here but um you know you didn’t actually you know go through this I’m far more kind of um you far more lifelong friends from the Army side of things because we didn’t go out and do all these things I mean we did

Eventually you know when you get off training or whatever but we spent a lot of time doing some horrendous things and being cold wet hungry honey ruined and and that kind of experience doing that together is like get out your bed but that’s that’s what I think you know that

I do think that rowing does create that it’s not anywhere like is you not that is what creates that but like when I suppose what I think coach is getting out of the way yeah what I think yeah what I think is U what I think is

And this is what I think I really believe the best athletes if you when I was listening to Eric Murray’s podcast the other day you know they are in control of the process they are in control of their input you know when I look back at my best times in the team

When I was in the eight with you um I felt we were driving what we were doing we had just as much say as John and Mark uh John West and Mark Banks when I was in the four you know in 2004 when I was

With Matt James and Steve I felt like I had an equal share of the say what in fact they changed loads to to for what I wanted to do and I think Matt when Matt and Steve regra were together they drove it right Jurgen basically provided the

Framework but they drove how they wanted to do it same with Andy and Pete when they were their best in the four you know Alex Gregory you know when Alex Gregory talks about the four in 20 you know the 2016 you know basically zuran

Just SL let them go and they just go out a row wouldn’t say a word they knew exactly what they wanted to do they would drive how they did it come in BOS they they ran they ran the show and that’s what I think in the Army you know

You’re trained how to do it you know we all know the basics right now you’re going to go and execute yourself and you go through those hardships and those are things that create where where where where it where it’s the worst and where the worst environment is where you just

Feel like your autonomy is taken away from you right where you’re just a number and and that’s the situation and that’s the situation I felt in quite a lot in the te because I was always under selection pressure am I going to be in

The four or am I going to be in the eight or D you know and I was just all right where do I fit who who do who does you want to use me for at the moment I’m r with Rick CU you know I need to get

Rick to go faster in the pair or I’m R now okay now I’m r with nauy you know um and you know like who had previously ran with Jesus you know um can we tell that story really quickly yeah we can tell that story so I’m so basically early

Early early I don’t know if you guys know this story so ear early in the winter Jurgen always used to like to make it really difficult for me because I’d normally come back pretty fat and unfit and uh so instead of being able to you never learn you never

Learn the decade you’re in Cross the cross the finish line at 91 kilos come back to straight any 110 kilos you know and uh and and um and so like so you know we were we all put in pairs and stuff and I normally r with

Alex and Andy had had an injury or basically he wanted to r a single because he didn’t want to r with Pete at that time or something like that and um and so I I am you’re okay Matt langage Rick you know Pete uh Alex and then it was like everyone else

And then it was like all the two people left standing on the bank like okay Alex you with not that naughty and I was like what okay anyway so like I was F I made up my mind at that point that I didn’t care who I was going to row with I

Didn’t care what boat I was in I was going to make that boat when whenn the Olympic Games and uh and I went out in the pair and it was you know it started going it was not that great to begin with but then we got better and better

Andy we we get to the finish of the 2K course in C C and’s like this down this is not going this and I just went I was like I just turned around I went aie I don’t know who the [ __ ] you’ve been ring

With but it must be either uh it must be either Jesus or Tomkins because this is goinging pretty bloody well and we’ve won every single piece in the last three weeks so I don’t know how youed who it is but can you just have a check with yourself and

Realize this is going pretty well and he went oh oh okay okay okay and then you know it was you know it was quiet from then cup half sentes in here yeah yeah it’s another story but everyone everyone like apparently cuz everyone was like the thing and I was like I don’t know

But it must be Jesus it’s a story that fed down to like yeah we I wasn’t in the team at that time Leander but like this kind of story like all came through like oh turned around and shouted at n and then uh and then we raced the the winter trials

Which is I think the one they’re going about to do now and uh and it was Pete and Alex and uh you know it was mode and you know all the big and uh and not I just basically ston it out the start we’re we’re leading at at 1500 gone and

I was like oh my God we’re going to win win to tr we win with naughty and then I was like oh my that could be dangerous you know and uh and then and then then I just blew my doors off blew my absolute doors off the most like going across the

Lane and then Andy uh Pete and Pete and Al just go and it goes right through us so luckily we didn’t bit back to your point about having bit of ownership I obviously don’t know what it’s like in the Army but i p l 4 in 2016 I get in training program right

Going get on with it you when you push the crew off he look after themselves because you guys you know no coaching that’s just when you become the most nervous you can’t do anything giving the letting the crew have a lot of ownership I think is absolutely key yeah

Absolutely key and my final year in the team I was really struggling and I went to see the psychologist and kind of listed off how I felt and the things that were happening and he was like yeah you pretty much just ticked every box on what would make someone not feel part of

The team and not feel motivated I was like H like can we do something about no y’s not interested in changing anything so this the thing you don’t need to treat athletes like kids like you’re working with adults they know how to move the boat they know what feels fast

What feels good what feels comfortable they know how to be accountable so I think autonomy is is a big thing and also to add to our point like I don’t think there’s anything that brings two people closer together than suffering together going through something like in

The Army like same thing with rowing you can like not see someone for two three four five years and it’s like yeah you know a minute’s gone I think that I think that points really I think and not that I noticed this well I kind of notice it a bit but

And I don’t want to turn this turn into like old days you know why not but I’m all right fine but I I just feel like a lot of I think this is fed in a lot through like um you hear it in football and and and

Just in a lot of kind of professional sport it there is you know it’s all people talk a lot about like getting that extra like 0.01 second and how you going to do that and you know every single thing you do or you can give that

Athlete is going to add not and yeah you know maybe it does right but I think the priorities are completely skewed because the the kind of the at the mental side of it is driven by going through adversity being tough and being and having the experience of going through

Tough things that will provide you with far more um benefit than oh well you know I want like yeah I want the right kind of you know environment I want the right mood lighting in my gym and and I want you know I want this Heating and I

Want heating I want hot water I me ridiculous uh but I mean just just some of I just think this I think what it is I feel there’s this like attitude where like luxuries or sort of tiny tiny little things are going to benefit but that is skewed the wrong way it’s like

Yes they probably can and there’s no reason you shouldn’t H have that but like on the flip side you should not underestimate the benefit of having to go through some really really tough things that are very very unpleasant and there is that kind of complete dichotomy there because it’s like well you know

We’re not we can’t just go into like some sort of you know futuristic type you know gym scenario where you’re being carried to the physio bench and every single thing is being looked after way because that in itself is like contrary to going through this tough stuff and

Like as an after you’ve got to kind of work out that like you know on one side there’s all these sort of benefits from science that can sort of ADD .1% but then the mental side of it is nothing to do with science you know I

Saw you still have to do the suffering yeah I saw on I think what you’re trying to say yeah on another podcast we talking about if if you were in in charge of creating the the perfect athlete what situations would you put them through in order in order to

Achieve that and it wouldn’t be an easy ride pretty gr and as much as you always like we all do it we all look at someone who’d had an easier ride or you know they had a bit more money or their parents G us more money or they had

Their own single or all those things I wish I had that I wish I had that I wish I had the easier ride but then forgetting at the same time that all the struggles you go through is what’s creating you know the reality is like okay right so you know money without a

Doubt like makes a difference right it provides you the time to train without having to work and the time to recover without so money makes a difference 100% but if you don’t do the miles and you don’t do the suffering and you don’t do the time in the gym doesn’t matter what

Money you have you’re not going anywhere um and I you know I I agree with that like you know I’m you know it’s all it’s all nice to have a nice culture and and I guess you know you you can’t you can win when you’re really unhappy and when it’s

Really rubbish and you can win when you’re really happy right um it’s just you come out of it thinking slightly different things right um and and and maybe maybe being maybe being happy and having a good time May might make you go a little bit faster but maybe hating

Everyone else in the world because how hard it is for you and just like just having the pure like Venom also you know like I often Jurgen would like put me in situations where it you know he knew like it would piss me off and me pissed

Off was an angry me was a driven me and you did not want to get on the wrong side of that like I would I would you know go to the I would go to the start line of the race and I’d be like I’m

Going to I am going to kill my opposite number like I’m going to smoke this fool into the ground and make him never ever want to race me again that’s my that was my attitude um and uh and and so like a piss off me was a fast me and he’s

Worked that out yeah and he worked that out and and so he created the situations and the scenarios cuz he knew like a happy me potentially was a lazy KN that would have pissed you off a lot more yeah I just annoyed you that’s another one life would be interesting

Like again to get from the Army perspective I was sort of pride myself on my ability to suffer yeah I can really like absolutely end myself knowing that there’s a hot shower and cook breakfast in 5 minutes you know and like yeah I can end myself knowing that

I get to go home at 4:00 and have a nap but like you compare that to the Army where you’re working really really hard but then you don’t have that stuff like what’s that difference no I mean it’s it it is is you that is actually a really

Good point I mean it’s so you know the comparison is just so different like the like as you say you know you could spend spend 10 days in like um sunnybridge in Wales in and it’s winter and it’s minus 5 every night and it’s sideways blizzard and I’d have to like

We do I know the whole day doing something really honorous and very very tough and physical and then I know like there isn’t any of that I’m I’m just going to have to get warmed and I’ll have to put another layer on and and H

That the other one gets dry but it won’t because it’s so cold so you end up and then it rains and it and it freezes and you’ve got to dig a shell scrape which is what you sleep in and what fills up with water and I’m sleeping in cold

Water like I’m trying to sleep in cold water I mean that kind of thing you know is a completely different thing you’re right and then you think oh my god I’ve got to this to this you know I’ve got the British team and training and this is seriously unpleasant you’re ABS you

Right you’re like I’m never going to have to sleep in a cold trench ever again I mean I literally can go home to my house and you’re right that kind of feel I think that’s unfortunately it’s like there is hard training and adversity in training which is OB but

That’s very internalized because that is your own personal experience yes you can see other people suffering over there but like it’s never more than whatever I mean the longest thing you do is the only thing you do that’s really painful and horrible is probably 5K right and

Everything else you’re all half up but um but but that’s short period of time but you don’t spend days and days and days like and I can see you know where’re I can if it’s minus 5 I just know everyone’s suffering I don’t know whether he’s pulling us he’s feeling

Like I am on the Urgo I think I’m suffering more than he is cu he’s an extra 30 kilos you know like so you know it’s it’s all that kind of like I know that with the kind of environment and the adversity of the environment then everyone’s having a [ __ ] time but then

That builds like confidence in your ability every time you like get through it place and know you’re not going to die you know I think T Sprat was a he like you’re not going to die and like he going the Army I was like I mean like

I might actually die in the Army you had a good point yeah Sprout was he was really good no one is going to die out there yeah so like that was the my I I I still remember this day that was my biggest breakthrough in rowing as a kid

It’s when I realized that when I was racing no matter how painful it got I wasn’t going to die like so I was like I can go even harder and feel even more pain that’s a bit of a Brooks mentality there to die no that that first time you

Get into that 3 500 and and you kind of scare yourself don’t you I didn’t get thir 500 I was at 750 gone I was checking out guys I I’m I’m going to have to get that’s absolutely fine really appreciate your time it’s been really been really

Interesting to get a little bit of a different aspect on it but we yeah we can just just keep the there was yeah I was going to say Al if there was any like um best bit of advice to someone that you that was going to no no like someone whether whether

They’re in the in the team whether they’re in the team and they you know this is the Olympic year coming up um uh any bit of advice you give that individual about you know maybe that you you wish that that you think could have transferred the silver to gold or you

Know maybe for anyone you know not getting a medal into yeah I think I think I think I mean you probably s of gleaned some of this from I mean this is not to say that I think you know when when I when I was actually on the

Water I you know there’s no there’s not one time that I wouldn’t have tried to be as the best I could possibly be the entire time so despite all this nonsense I’m talking about like actually the sport of rowing you know done for a very very long time and you know PR myself

Wanting to be technically really good and that that was the thing kind of drove me whereas I think on the land training side of things my advice would be like I I definitely kind of I think probably TI half the time but like I know that if I just thought about what

The training session was trying to achieve whether it was weights or whatever else it was and then kind of put that effort in to make the most out of that particular session it would have afforded me a lot more benefit because I always felt the only anything worth

Doing was actually going on the water and Rowing and Rowing hard and whatever and when it came to training session it became like it was like a onerous task for me rather than something that was going to benefit me and I that was my mentality the entire time so whether

It’s an ergo or a was session whatever I would always do it with with a slight like you’re halfhearted no I’ll get through it but then on the water I was like right this is it this is what it’s all about where actually you know I would be like every single thing that

You do has the benefit you need to put you put everything into it but I love how you like you say that looking back with reflection of you know sitting next to you on the Ergo many times that altitude that you’re halfhearted was you being pulled off the Ergo put on an

Oxygen mask I me that’s cuz I that’s cuz I smoked for seven years in the AL I mean I had lungs you were like packing you know that’s why it that’s that Bloody smoking that did it but um but no I mean like that you know as an

Example I’ll give you one example I remember that that you know the the when we had to go to Bish and Abbey and do our weight sessions and there was like some I felt like a stupid warm-up which is basic Circ session I would literally like the minute like the the guy was

Running the sessions back turn I was just doing or I just you know I was just like what are we doing here let’s go rowing you know and it was and that I think that really you know you got to you got to treat everything as in with the same

Importance so I I was the complete opposite I would say I mean like everything did no I love it’s good to know that you like weights yeah everything I did was to the but I would say to the over intensity like you know I remember doing bench

Falls at uh at Brooks next to you B and you know we put it on more weight and I’d be going like and I i’ literally be visualizing I’d be like you know um right what would you know Matthew pinsent do like we’re I’m in the Olympic

Final I I can do one more lift you know I can do this like every single Ergo I did was so focused I mean I was shattered absolutely like mentally broken every day because I was just concentrated so hard and actually sometimes you just needed to let it flow

I think for the genus said r v like coach maybe watching this down the line that’s a very good bit of advice yeah basically there’s no not that much point in trying to follow the science and get a chase the 1,000th of a second of a percent and training always perfect

Conditions perfect heating perfect mood light cuz you’re going to go out there and it’s choppy what are you going to do you’re [ __ ] if you only learn how to run like clean water no waves nothing conditions aren’t always going to be perfect so you need that bit of

Suffering you need that bit of mental resilience that you develop like going through those things cuz then you need to be really versatile when it comes to race day the end of the day that’s comes out the basic it’s under pressure isn’t it I mean once you know it’s you said

Out there well it could be pretty horrendous you turn nice Flat Lake and then you come here Henley IDE did window game stre it’s absolutely me semi it all goes out the window Josh and I had this discussion the other day uh working in front of Josh we discussing carbon Wing

Versus met wi I don’t think much difference at all I’m sure someone’s done Stevie T probably he looks into the stuff cage someone’s probably done it when it boils down to it how much difference does it actually make I don’t I World Championships dead flat maybe but they’ve all got the same equipment

Anyway out here makes any yeah I think I really don’t yeah I mean I think having um you I I I really like the Kiwi program where the q’s train in kapiro and I think having a late and you they have rough conditions and they have

Amazing well more more than that um they have but they can also have incredibly flat you know conditions and I think I think you talk about doing the basics right you got to learn how to do the basics really really well and have those conditions to be able to create that

Pattern to then take into the tough conditions um uh and and then ex just keep executing the same thing over and over and over again you know I remember James Kel was like you know before the 2004 final we were in a dialogue um you know with him

And Athens and me stuck back here cuz my collaps long you know and and and and and he was like you know super nervous before the final and I was like you’re not going to go you’re not you’re only going out there to do exactly the same thing that you’ve done in training

Thousands and thousands of times again um but yeah so like I but I think yeah I think you need to go I think you need to create a program where you create enough Challenge and toughness for mentally tough pressure right like so the selection pressure that is

Created in the British team is is good because it’s it the pressure you feel on the Olympic the startline the Olympic Bal is super intense so you need to be able to have that pressure in training in training situations in testing um uh so that you you have executed those

Basics under that pressure and the pressure that you feel in the Olympics is is even more even more that it’s different um uh and and what I always felt and I think what most the I rode with under uran is we felt like there there there was nothing else we could

Have done in training we we train harder than everybody else and yuran would say to oh yeah you know just remember remember Zetta remember Z you know just remember you know these times um and you would look back like I I remember um I remember you know being uh

On um Eros in Japan uh well for the world world Champs um uh in um kfu yeah K in5 and I remember racing the heat having done these Ergo pieces at rate 26 in a samurai warrior gym you know wooden gym at like 70% humidity you

Know 38 degrees hotter than the Sun and I remember finishing the heat the world Champs um and being like those ergos were harder yeah those ergos were that I did two days before the worlds and I was still tired U and it was easier than

That and I think I think the other the other thing I you know I just wanted to say is that like I was just thinking about it just now you know like um you were talking about autonomy I think that the best athletes that I can

Think of in the world Tim Foster you know so the the most successful athletes Tim Foster Katherine Granger Eric Murray heish Bond um uh Matthew Pinon Andy uh most of the time in a pee most of the time myself at my best times are the ones

That are feel like they’re in control of the process they’re in control of their Destiny it’s when it’s taken out of your hands that you you know you can do it once right you can you follow you just follow like like a sheep the program and

You get to the start line you you know you I don’t know what you’re doing but if you want to keep developing and keep pushing you know you the best right I know me the best um and ultimately that’s why I retired uh or or or stopped was because

I felt I needed something different and something more to to to kind of take myself to another level I peaked at what I could achieve in the British Roar system now I probably could have achieved more and it did change a bit but I wasn’t patient but I wanted to go

And do something different that I was in control of to test myself against other people in the world um to to take myself to the next level so I think the the people that are are going to be the best or or if you want a bit of advice is

It’s don’t just follow like a sheep you know lead like a like like the shepherd you know understand what you’re doing why you’re doing it and control how you’re doing what you’re doing that’s what I I would I my advice would be yeah I like control definitely think Tom

James was the best example right he would cruise through so much training you know Tom uh you know he would he would be like what is he doing you know but he was in charge of himself he knew when he had to back up whereas I was

Trying to prove myself every day yeah I was on the line all all the time was very that knowing when he was about to go go down he’d take a couple of days off just look after himself yeah do thing or do something different I mean well he would do like different

Exercises in the gym because he knew that was what he needed to do um and and I and I had my best times when I was when I was really in control of my own program I when I was either pissed off um you know and angry Alex or or or uh

Or I was um you know I was really I felt like I was the one driving the direction I was going we were just saying when you’re out of the ruin out in 2008 when Tom was in the 10 Cay and I was cing ladies pay say here they were once a

Wild nut jobs so I let them run with it that was it and they really pissed off the Grand and let them do it and that was the way they came to they felt that they had the but stop with me but it was their project and I had to let them get

On with it I that Ang told me off for listening to my creutin I was going to say Ang Danny maritt won seven Penny notes I’m not going to ignore that BL at all and so they they felt like they had ownership of their own own yeah I think

You’ve we spoke about this before so Ben wwin brought it up you can you can have your perfect plan on paper but you actually got to coach what’s in front of you if You’ got a oh take K I always said play what’s been in front you

People are tough per ten years ago and they like oh we doing Squad no turn up every day Sean b and Richard Sprat they don’t should right here’s a sign up sheet he’s going to be here this days because that’s what they had at 10 you

Had a sign up sheet and you say you’re going to be for this session so you spend I never did it I refused to do it okay I’m going to work it all out and then oh there’s a chief strike and three people haven’t turned up the two hours

You put turn up and if you’re not there someone else is going to steal your seat play what is put in front of you every absolutely yeah and that’s another thing so of go into the point of like ownership and stuff I know um I feel

Like a lot of training is like people are like right I’m doing all of this to be able to put down my perfect performance in my final whether that be the Olympics or heny or whatever it is but I think actually but then that sort of leads to a situation respect to Al

Sinclair and I think John Collins as well sort of looking back and being like I you know at the Olympic finals the waterers crack and this is horrible is not perfect yeah and going halfway down he said I saw really pissed off the still sort of you know 500 in God is

This really my Olympic F like yeah it is it’s happening right now so I think you can kind of own it a bit more by yeah understanding that the point is to be able to do your best with what’s in front of you whether you’re the coach or

The athlete you’re not trying to be perfect because you won’t get Perfection you’ve got to you you’ve um I tell here on the start line all the work has been I my 2015 a 10s we asked what was your hardest race and not one of them said

Heny sem final not one of them it was a seat race or it was gent or it’ all been done before by the time we got here that was it they that barge race that Z Connie’s Zulu launch is a very good video of it um that the

Whole the the future atts hung in the balance for about a minute when they were length down after by the qu mile against bar club and Connie FW the race power out the window brought the push SP I bet I blacked out um but that the whole future of 10 basically hung on

That that one minute um but not one of them said that was their hardest rest even though they length down at the barrier and many of been in that position many times um but it was all been done a lot of us do the selection yeah talk about these this talk about

You selection we were brutal in absolutely brutal we didn’t have t Tre like um Brooks this even could just we have to see old fashion seat racing and now now it’s all just as I was just saying yesterday it’s just done and wats and yeah that works brilliantly it’s a lot

Easier we have to we have to do it differently but it meant when the [ __ ] hit the fan they’ve been in that position many times and they they just dealt well that’s the thing you don’t always win by being able to put down the fastest fast split than the other crew

Or than the opposition is you need to adapt to what’s in front of you the circumstances okay cool this is our race plan but they’ve made a push we’re going to be behind we’re going to run out of water we need to do something now you need to be adaptable need to be

Versatile think on your feet and also like have the skill and the confidence that obviously you carry from your training from like the work that you’ve been doing with your coaches in order to be able to successfully execute that and I guess that’s that’s that’s what makes

You win no first contact with the Enemy yeah it that’s it no matter what are goes out the window they’ve always got a plan until they get punched in the face I know Brooks train for every eventuality you know they’re two lengths down you’re a length and half up in your core crowd

And they try going have to Wi they try and practice we do much the same thing at ten um you try and put yourself in every single position I think that’s brilliant I mean we didn’t do we we never did that right and I mean we were

Well that’s I guess that would that’s my biggest frustration you know is that and this is a part enough outside the box thinking was there for national team well no but I think it’s also the challenge of like the crew changing all the time right so you you know we’re

Changing the boat for London Olympics okay and Beijing even you know right right up until like weeks you know a couple weeks before you’re still sorting your star out you know three weeks before the Olympic Games and you’re changing it Midway through the Olympic games um so we never trained for all you

Know eventuality we train we trained for our race plan our race plan which was to you know get out get it in the lead and then you know then dominate the race from there um and and that worked really well for us but you know eventually

People CAU on I mean I’ve I’ve been in some Crews where we had the adaptability to respond but most of the crews I was in I would say did not have the the adaptability certainly that that I’ve seen in those Brooks Crews and and I to

Be honest I haven’t seen uh in the British team at at the moment you know they’ve got one way as like getting the lead um and or or or there thereabouts um and that’s what stuffed the the British pair this you know summer is like they weren’t in the lead and they

Just didn’t know how to respond um the race was you know um or the race was taken on by the by the horns you know within 600 meters and the Irish changed the whole race for everyone no about has is um with the the CTI coming back now

So you there’s more it’s easier for the small nation you know so to get an H it’s just not enough people it’s a shame you know like the Kiwi PA you know they I I this Eric Murray and heish B you know I think they’re just an unbelievable combination and we

Listening to his podcast um the other day about how you know they looked at things you know they uh they could do anything at any time like any anywhere you know they knew they knew how so I think I think what to be the best in in you know in in the

World you you need to be able like Eric muray and a lot of other the Canadian we talk you need your best your worst performance to be this close to your best performance so you win on a bad day um and the other thing is you need to

Know exactly what it is that you it looks like that you’re doing right and there are quite a few Crews like with like the four I was in with Andy and Pete and Steve like we we knew how we were going to nail you know we knew

Exactly how we’re doing we had a solid plan that worked for three years nobody could touch it but then as soon as somebody started adapting to it we just didn’t know how to how to respond from it um uh whereas like before that I was in with um with

Langers and Alex strobbery and Rick you we could we could race lots of different ways just depending on you know what day Rick woke up out in the bed you know but we we you know we wanted to get out fast we could get out fast but sometimes we’d

Be behind and then Rick would switch it on and BOS you know and or langers would start hammering it from you know for the finish line and suddenly know I’m just there sitting in the B seat holding it left level um and just telling everybody else

What to do T so we could tactically respond uh I think that goes back for me again a little bit to like um kind of what you guys were saying about well exactly what Al was saying about work out what the benefit the best benefit for you from this session is like you’re

Not here just to end yourself like what can you actually gain from it and we were talking to sort of Zoe and Morgan about coxing so one of their sort of bug Bears is the [ __ ] at every piece is trying to start in front or trying to be

Out the stream and this and that and they were like how about how about try starting down try starting a length down choose the stream you know like put yourself in all those different places like the aim of today in this random two 2ks against some other random crew is

Not to smash them no one went no one cares like how do you get the most out of this session it’s not about starting half a length up and being oh we beat you today because you’re trying to win in two months three months 6 months time

So actually like putting yourself in all those different you’re training on the river as well it’s never going to be ideal and that River Racing disappears Dead art St it’s all Dawn one two three we all know yeah but that was the beauty of being at 10 as you’re out there with

A couple of a and it’s never going to be dead so you just have to make it up on the hoof that was the best training I ever did oh side by side side by side that’s what everyone you know tucked it like one Bast scw stre and then you you

Know go around the corner like we got to move now because the corner is coming we need to get up and then they come back and then it’s how you hold your nerve and then you get it back did and then they go or you know what you how many we

Do play p and I’d be looking at Ben be like they blow they blow rating Shou each other trying to get in their head kicking the launch yeah I mean that was the best such a was the best training that I I mean like you know in terms of

Like experience in terms of learning about seriously hard yeah how to P hard serious hard how to how to communicate in a boat with the rest of your crew how to uh be tactically aware you know with you know how to be race savy how to be a water how to use the

River um but I I do think that you know you’re talking about you’re talking to the cops of the boat race or you know you’re talking about the Henley hen you side by side like a matched racing like so you know one one versus one is very

Very different to to to to six Lane Olympic you know racing at the Olympics like there is tax ICS right there is you can break a crew you can break a crew whereas when you got six boats you can you can use all the different boats to

Put put push off of the other thing is I I so I think I think that um you know when I when I listen to to when I think about my best RAR at that level in in the six lane racing um uh was um um execution of your

Strategy like you had such a clear clear plan it wasn’t n about reacting I mean yes it is about reacting it’s about understanding what’s happening around you but your plan was so clear and you could execute it at the highest level time and time and time again that’s

About how that’s how you how how you create if you haven’t got a if you don’t know exactly what your plan is going into that race and you’ve done it before then it’s a different ball game and this is what this was what the Olympic final

Was like in London in 2012 was like you know it’s a big difference sitting there the night before the final going we’re going to do something we’ve never done before right we’ve never done this we are going to lead the ger we’re going to

Go as hard as we can until we’re in the lead and we’re going to keep going until that point and that means that we could blow our doors off and we’ve never done that before you know that’s so different right you’re going you suddenly a lot of

The time you be on the on the Seline of the World Champ final you know you can win or you know you know you’re there thereabouts you’re not nervous you start to lose the nerves after a couple years but when you about to go and do something that it’s like being back at

J15 Colts Nat school you have remind yourself I’m still going to die yeah yeah no I’m I’m not kidding I I had to remind myself I’m not going to die and um what’s you know what was bizarre is like you know in in in London you know

We did it we we went as hard as we could but what’s so funny is you didn’t feel the pain you didn’t actually feel and you’re sick of it you don’t do if you’re prop the pain barrier ESP when you’re so B down and what you’re doing you you’re

Not aware yeah it’s like you were elevated from what your body was doing and actually when we blew um I mean I I know yeah like um when we blew up like I didn’t actually feel like my body was blowing up in fact

I Fel you know I felt so I felt felt so strong in that race um but I just felt that something was just disappearing and but when we crossed the Finish Line you know it was like ears ringing no sight you know just total you know and the

Pain was so immense you know langers had to get oxygen couldn’t go on the metal Podium for a period of time you know I couldn’t get out of the boat you everyone was in piece I mean constantly l did himself he went about C to slide wasn’t he yeah like we

Like you know like he he basically cuz he was like you know I I show you guys I can get the B out I can do this and that guy is solid like strong as an ox grows amazing and we’re you know we’re flying but like we when the doors he you know

He ended himself as did many people in our I mean I think we all did um and and but what I was going to say is there’s a big difference about not having ever done that in training not even trying it not even trying it I remember John West when I

Was running an a pair with Alex Gregory John West got me and Alex Gregory to practice um just throwing uh these two we did 250 500 mil pieces and we just we just we did them at like 43 just T like like eight 500s back to back at 43 and

And he was like I want you guys to practice just going as hard as you can for as long as you can because that’s the only way you’re going to be any and Pete um and you know we did amazing in those pieces but you know and in training we

Were great but we never beat Andy and beting when it came to it because they were the ones that could execute really execute what they wanted to on on the day but um yeah you you you got no chance of um all I’m saying is the pressure be before trying to do

Something you’ve never done before um in that in that in that Olympic yeah on that day I tell you what like on my hands were like shaking like this on on the a um but you know like just I was just shake I couldn’t stop like this it

Was like this and I was like I’m trying to look cool you know next to the cruise next me and I I’m like how are we going to do this how we how are we going to survive um if we’re going to do what we’re going to do sometimes that’s what

It takes to win something that you weren’t necessarily meant to win or that people didn’t have you put down to I lost one of my plate finals against cal um was close yeah it was it was caral was 3 feet yeah basically we’d seen all

Their times it was a fast we were a fast year we knew they were good the guy stroking it was a guy Steve tuck who’d been at leando as a junior a couple years before not he wasn’t bad but you know it felt like there were guys in it

That were coming up and basically the whole race plan was like we know we’re fast we know they’ve got a first fast first K we know they’ve never held on to it we just absolutely stick to our plan and change nothing else than just stick

To our plan and they went out hard and then we came to the K and we’re like stick to our plan just stick to our plan and then they they did what you guys did and they were just like [ __ ] it throw throw it all out there we’re going to do

Something we never did and they hung on and we and we lost that race because we were just like racing experience as well that Americans have that we just don’t haven’t we now everyone has started changing what they’re doing so um CU H is such a big thing but that match

Racing thing they have you know six seven match races per spring make does make I also think the younger you are like the easier it is ignorance is Place yeah yeah you like you know I’m I remember run with you you know in at Brooks and like right we’re going to go

Now you know and you’re like you’re like wait how far away are we this so far you know and uh and um and and and you you you make it um but like as you get older you just become more and more especially if you train in the C where

You become more and more and more ingrained in the way that you’ve done things to break out of that is so T so which is why exactly what you’re saying you know uh you need to have that variability in the training you need to be training all those different ways

Those different patterns particularly mentally mentally is the hard I mean because now it’s getting so scientific and know this is how this is what you should be doing polarized training we could looking multi racing flat pce all the way through some degree has sucked a

Bit of the fire out of it some respects there’s still as much of an art as it is science I think um I never really had to and stuff like that so I’ve had to get quite creative and repeative um it’s going down it is going down quite a uh

Polarized route if that makes sense more and more science comes in I’ve remember had this conversation L banks in downstairs years ago when he was coaching in team I said coaching was science said it’s my last podcast oh science definitely right what about managing Josh

Davids you know C can know that is an all and very well you could know all is you can know know about the sport but at the end of the day or me or you or actually the point there is a lot of it rowing is the easy bit it is

Actually one [ __ ] around it has been talked about and is the man manag and yeah think your point about giving ownership Cruise you know my he FL uh one in 16 they that was their project I let them run with it I think in to you

Top Cruise yeah they very much do have a you noices AR going to drive because they what the hell they’re doing but the higher up the scale you go the more economy you need to give to the athletes cuz they’re there cuz they’re bloody good absolutely and that thing that you

Guys are talking about you know like breaking the pattern doing something you’ve never done before even at an Olympic stage absolutely ending yourself to the point where you can’t go on a Podium to collect the medal that you just won isn’t that the essence of what

The Olympics really is about like how to put down the performance you stand up to collect your silver medal you haven’t tried hard enough he’s right somewhere yeah that’s it that is it and you’re not going to die but that’s how he never said that I never that to I mean I’ve

Read I’ve read it his book or R’s book I’ve read it in one of those books and I think well that’s a pretty I mean you know the one thing that I remember you saying distinct before my Beijing final was you know just make sure you don’t

Lose the silver medal you know so like you know you can coaches coaches can say some brilliant things they can also say things that are just yeah that was in I didn’t I all and I you know we were all just like we never thought about winning

The gold I’m not I’m not blame with uran but like that was such an an odd thing to say yeah you know like right before you vote for the Olympic final to saying that sing lose the silver medal I I’ve never raced a race in my life thinking about

Bron Sil gold you know I just thought about getting in front and keeping in front that’s it or winning you know or you know just like that like just winning that’s all I’ve ever thought about in my rowing career I’ve never ever thought about I’m racing for fourth

Or I’m racing for third or whatever and you know a lot of times I was racing like just to get in the you know not be in the bfal um I even when I was in the crew in the 2001 uh in the8 with like Luka guor

Kieran West Steve trap all Olympic old medalist and we’re in the cfal no B final we come 12th to like Egypt and can’t remember the other cre there but like you know just so far off the pace still thinking about winning just not going anywhere

Um but look you’ve had Ben and ey on the podcast uh in in the in in both on individually uh is there anything that anybody wanted to know specifically from either of us that you know our between us we got combined what 40 or maybe more

50 OD years of R we’ve had we’ve had one comment uh after your PO I’m just going to get it up um we’ve had more than one comment but there’s one in particular I wanted to like respond to um it was um remember Cas Christmas show in room by I

Was five golden rings it’s Elena from Sumatra I share your birthday John 25th but I am one year older I remember telling you that but you couldn’t have a birthday party on the 25th remember my dad Dr Steve and my Barbie house with the roaches that’s directed to you Alex

Oh I can it’s crazy I can cut this specific no no no no no it’s true it’s true so her her dad was the math teacher I think at at Caltech American School in Rai Indonesia was where I lived uh from the age of 5 to 11 mowley yeah uh mowley

Well that’s what you said last time yeah I was like mowley I didn’t wear wear wear wear shoes or anything so uh I don’t know what the the username is but uh Elanor Elanor Elanor okay Elanor Brown I can’t well I can’t can remember a few people from back then but um I

Don’t I mean I don’t yes I don’t remember not being able to have a birthday on my birthday but um is that due to training or just being somewhere else uh well no I think she because she had the same birthday so she wouldn’t permit me

To have a birthday on her the same day as hers there’s only like 20 kids in the community or you know 30 kids in the community they’d all have to go to one birthday party and anyway I don’t know a bit bit but with regards to my birthday

My birthday pretty much every year for 16 years was the day that we did the 5K Argo test 25th J so it’s either like the day you know two days before or we were at altitude um I can never remember celebrating my birthday um ever yeah I did I had seven

Of seven on 28th of Jan which was banola winter camp at theander so seven seven of my birthdays on winter but then it was kind of weird cuz then I would you’d be with all your mates yeah i’ would wake up and kind of feel a bit like oh

I’m not seeing my family or anything today but then kind of almost immediately be like but where else do you want to be like you’re like you’re living the dream here there was always 5K Oro test we were back in the country and yeah it was

5K is I fact I think they’re doing them downstairs right now yeah they yeah I remember 20 you remember this 23 2000 um and my birthday 2 no it was actually around I think it was on about Valentine’s Day actually you ruined me

We we went we went for a run and we ran about it was at night it was night it was at night no it was it we ran from North from east oord to we as an extra TR R something like probably 18 miles or something

Ridiculous for fun and I remember at the time we ran all the way Pao we’ve gone quite a long way out we got to and we did it I’ve never been so fited I think I probably watch that year in 2000 oh yeah it was am that was that was s we

Were s in such good shape we did we did we were in the eight together seven six seven I remember I remember so I was in the eight with that was my first year at Brooks and um you know I was like rowing with Ben and you know Ed Russell these amazing Juniors

Then we had a couple of kind of guys who were a bit bit rough around the edges but quite strong and then Desi Ian Desmond he’s 38 he was 38 years old coached Henny Ryan Club 2005 is that is that the cabinet maker so there’s a

Story where he like wanted to win Henley yeah sign on to a woodwork course at Brooks but like and then but didn’t tell his wife didn’t tell his wife and would drive up to the university he actually and he’ park his CU he has in Desmond

Cabinet say he’d park it in sort of the Tradesman area at Brooks even though he was a student he did do something I I was in I was in electure with him and I remember him going the break of the lecture him going out and he was like

Talking to a stop broker to kind of play the market to keep the income coming in he what never knew and we I was 19 19 and he was 38 um then you turned around on day one and you yourself the nion university no it was rers beat it was Ruckers Ruckers

University I remember I listed off all the other 23 kids beat which all in the barber Jans the light International Highway crew then okay and it’s we’re going to win we fine CU you very nervous you oh so nervous cuz I’d never I’d never gone past Wednesday on a in Henley

And then you know we’re ruers i’ never even heard of ruers University and I turn it to bed I was like we going to win this and went yeah we’re gonna we’re going to win this I remember I remember Ed Russell telling me he was like uh I

Think it was before the head of the river and I was like oh you know like you think we’re going to do okay and he goes he goes um okay yeah he he goes Alex most people have never rode the full distance of this race in one

Alti we’re going to 30k yeah yeah we’re going to be okay um but yeah that was that was funny but then we lost so we that was back in that was a fun that was an awesome sorry fun uh you know Ian Desmond will de llo Aiden Riley uh Phil

Wright Ben no I don’t Phil Wright um Ben Lo plus Alex Partridge and Ed Russell and and call it call it yeah and we we had such a laugh that was like the best introduction to R for me um we just called so hard and we rated pretty high

No we couldn’t rate oh we couldn’t rate high we went one street at 35 that was it one street but anyway we we faced in the same final in the morning on the Sunday we faced Brown University who were the um who were the JB champ I yeah junior varsity Champions national

Champions of the US um and and we rode them down heavy stream rode them down on the outside we won by like half length three quarters of length something like and we have to go back to Desi’s house for five hours and then go we go back to

De five hour had the final five hours later five hours later against Yale lightweights who are also the varsity lightweight Champions and um again we’re on the outside they raced exter that morning they won easily 28 and we had this gut Buster of a race with them we

Were down the whole way and then I think we got the lead a little bit never got the Le never um and we lost the final by like basically one foot no no no it was but it was we almost got my level and then they stuck away on the okay it was

A couple about half length it wasn’t much my story is better couple feet photo of crew flat jet photographic I know all of us half of us just absolutely flat we all been shoted yeah so it’s it was devastating um and there loads of things we could have done

Better doing the recovery and all you know we didn’t do anys um but in the following year I was in the visitors for and um with Tom Burton and Gareth Cory and James Brown our first race of the SE of of Henney is against Yale lweight and

There four of the guys from the crew from the year before and I am jacked up to the eyeballs so pumped so nervous I am like just you know super angry Alex and we tear off and we get you know like four lengths clear I think we win

Easily we cross the finish line and I am throwing up I’m vomiting everywhere I am absolutely done and I turn around and the other three I go what the hell’s wrong with you and I was like what you you guys didn’t back off and they were

Like I sto pulling it like the barrier here so I basically just been ranking it all the way toay back yeah but that I remember uh um you talking about you know when you don’t even realize you’re blowing the World of Pain you’re in that race in 2000 oh yeah so Clyde Kennedy

Burn who was hit many years ago said to me we in the driving back from B he said why did he what did you like about R and um I said right I’ll give you a Moment In Time the 2000 final of the uh Temple

Cup and we’re at the bottom of the we’re coming to the pedest closure we’re half a length down we’re coming back on Yale and I remember thinking right last minute and a half this is it end yourself and we’re going to win this bfot I don’t remember anything else

That’s it that’s the last I remember of that entire race turns out we lost but I would I still I remember that point and I was like this is [ __ ] awesome this is exactly what I do and lot of your guest said I want be it’s not about the

Medals at the end of the day it’s actually the memories and the mates you make and still that eight was a great laugh and we had a hell of a season no we didn’t quite win there’s a lot of things we could have changed should have changed in highight but I probably

Wouldn’t change anything and that that I don’t I’m very proud of I don’t remember the last being clach because I got put myself in such a hope I don’t remember it hurts that’s why I thought we were like a foot down you were so absorbed in

What we were doing in trying to win that race but it didn’t hurt and you see the pH across the line and it literally someone was just taking a machine gun down the boat say how hard are you pulling when it’s 90 seconds until your season is basically finished talking to

About Europeans the other day I exact same thing remember my European final in the eight in 2012 sort of like the B Team wer we um yeah that thought of being like I guess like red like red boys okay now and then like red boys that’s that’s like 307 that was the end

So we had 90 seconds is way longer than red boys oh the whole thing was three the three TI last 500 remember that last bit just missing just missing I have many races in your life where you are every stroke that point is as hard as

You can make it and he just you’re looking across show he’s that doesn’t hurt at all CU you are so absorbed I was us as kid hear about enti the pain bar to me that’s what it is I reckon I reckon I was the world’s consistently the world’s fastest best thrower across

All boat classes over 1500 all right you come for the compack then 2000 you’re going for La yeah I was like I never have tet I I was I was checked out pretty much every race with 500 ago only I never had a Sprint I never really

Had the only one I wasn’t the only one I wasn’t was one is was our Henley final with when I had Tommy Burton in the stroke seat and um and he was basically rowing uh on Strokes like but his body is r on bad and and I was and I and I

Could see this starting to happen and I was just going toy and like I know that I wasn’t blowing in that race but I mean pretty much every single one I was done I was being carried and I think Juran knew that as well so I mean like you

Know this panel has been great like right having Ben Ben was like a massive influence in my R career it was great to row with him and Al also was you know and Al was saying like he didn’t like rowing at all like for someone who hates

Something so much he spent his entire life around rowing and you know he he like he was a nightmare to was a nightm matters he got bored he made he got he got bored super easily but like he did row really really well and his his his

His his saying I I don’t mind saying I do strike a mighty final and like he would do it and like he would just every stroke he would like look at his cat and he had he had like this perfect flat shoulders and Al’s portions are funny

That he’s got super long arms super long super long legs and like tin so just like these black arms and there i’ would be like trying to get in the cash like this um but you know he was he was awesome awesome to row it um and uh and

I you know wouldn’t have changed it for the world um but yeah no it was awesome yeah appreciate it thanks for there’s a lot of things we probably could have touched on more is probably a good thing we didn’t there’s always another episode oh yeah we’ll get you definitely get you back on

Train hard andice if you’ve been listening to podcast I bring it up a lot now like turn up train hard have fun and that’s really that’s the simplest way to put it Point both his point about taking ownership of a your project obviously you can’t just tell you yeah that is a

Part and point really good hearing I should have said to actually cuz Club Ro I’ve always been liking to bit to the TA the territorial Army because I’m Montgomery always said I respect our soldiers but I really respect the parttime soldiers cuz they they go to work and then the weekends they’re

Training and Club running is very very much like that and Al he did a very good job at TS um and he you know he won a red box with a full-time job as said I and it’s it’s so hard um so to hear that from Al he does disparage run regularly

And says he hates it he still loves it he actually loves it and he has aot respect for it his general manager we all love hate it it’s I think it’s the same for every toxic relationship I love that I absolutely it I still love it

Cool so now we’re back to uh just just the three of us our usual format uh there was you can make it and singing is there was there was one there was one uh story that we didn’t get out from the last time we spoke to I mean the podcast was

Fantastic we got such brilliant reviews like people still message us saying that they’ve really enjoyed hearing your story the honesty and just authenticity was a really big one and that’s just brilliant but we didn’t ask you about the time that you beat the German 8 in the hanza

Cup oh yeah yeah that was pretty awesome um yeah so I that was well probably remember what year that was that 2010 something like 2010 yeah must have been 2010 um so yeah so I was in the four with um Matt Langridge uh Alex Gregory Rick eggington and

Myself and um it was oh yeah it was no no must have been 2011 mhm must have been 2011 because uh it was a long season and the hanza cup was before the World Championships uh in carera in and the the World Championships like in October uh because you know it’s their their

Summer winter it wasn’t really much of a summer um I think it moves into their males fromom Windstorm on Lake kapura but we’ll leave that for another uh another conversation um and why um the fairness Commission on uh fora should be a hell of a lot better than it is I mean there

This year’s World Championship is a great great result we people falling in and the world championship should never happen no uh and I think that’s embarrassing to the sport um but anyway um I yeah so I was in the four we’ had a we had a unbeaten season in

2011 um what happened we were yeah we w we didn’t I think we didn’t do heavly I can’t remember exactly but we’ won three World Cups uh or maybe I can’t remember two and then uh we we had this long training period and yuran was like looking you basically we done the hands

A cup we never won it uh you know he went with a super eight in the first year that it was done in 2001 MH uh two with Pinson and the cnel and light the four um Rick D Ed cou all those guys Toby garbage C William they didn’t win it um

And uh then i’ done it I’d you know come Pann last or third or something maybe twice before second um once and then anyway so we put this a together and we sent um it was Andy and Pete myself and our forer Rick Matt Alex me and I think we had Tom

Wilkinson uh in yeah Tom Wilkinson and Marcus was it red yeah B big red mark baitman yeah wilker and bitman in the seat and then the British eight which is like Greg surl uh Cameron nickel Tom Broadway uh ransley Dan Richley Dan Richie uh James Clark maybe no maybe he

Wasn’t in it at that stage anymore James F most be yeah all that big boys yeah big eight and they got silver that summer in Kira um H it was it was also just more of a break you know for us in the eight we kind of jumped did a few sessions out

Of K we were kind of there thereabouts with the R8 R8 over a th000 meters in the windiest conditions ever known to man you both steering all over the place and um uh who was coxos was Henry it was Henry Filman henryman was so he just just got jumed

Into the eight with uh and basically was like hji telling him what to say and what to do um and we went out to Germany and the and the Germans were undefeated it was the crew that we ended up racing in in London yeah and they never lost

Race in fact this is this is this is this is the big thing so yeah they actually were not an undefeated eight over the four years because we pumped them you stuck into them in the cup and like we went you know like we were all kind of joking around and being pretty

Pretty pretty relaxed um no I think cam was in cam was in R8 cam nickel possibly I I can’t remember it doesn’t matter yeah maybe cam because cam wasn’t in the British eight at that time okay and then he got into the eight um and um yeah we

Uh basically you go off the start you know it’s a 12.7 kilomet race and you go off the start and it’s 68s or yeah five or 68s lined up I think the Dutch were there uh maybe the Americans were there I’m I can’t remember exactly probably the Polish the Polish were

There and um the Germans very rarely lose it it’s done on it it’s in Germany it’s on a big it’s a big um German national public Bank holay were good they never lost it yeah I don’t they do now um i’ would say they’re not that

Great at the moment but yeah you go off to start and you go off and you do 12K race and you start like you going to do a 2K race you know I remember we’re going through two the 2K Mark and we’re we are sort of there or thereabouts with

The Germans and and our British eight and the the Germans have got the inside lane and then it’s our British eight and then us so we’re the furthest over um wait I said and you do like 4 and a half K and then it’s a sharp right

So you want to be on that inside Bend and um and basically we just went 2K we just went go now go now and we just did like one two minutes two of the hardest minutes we could do so I think we settled down from 30 38 to 36 and we

Went back up to 38 38 and a half and uh and we just pulled out um a l we started to to push them across uh I can’t know exactly how how how it works but basically we got that length and then we just broke past them enough to get creep across yeah

So no yeah so the Brit yeah the British a was on our right hand side and it was yeah to do enough to creep across and then move in front um you know across their bow line you we had to get clear and then wash them down and get that

Corner and then we tucked in the inside and then they had to go around the out outside and then we basically just broke them at like but they stayed like two and a half lengths behind us um for about another 4K mhm uh and then it just started like it’s disappear disappear I

We beat them by like a minute and a half maybe more um over the 12K they couldn’t react they know what was happening they didn’t expect and we were like you know like once you get in the thing we were I think we’re at like rate 32 33 and you

Were literally like you know ut2 pressure maybe a bit more probably more yeah but just like you help the slide quicker than you’re going down it and I remember the whole of my left arm just seized like completely seized up and went numb so like to the point where it was just like

I was just like and I couldn’t move could when we cross the finish line one year absolutely wrecked um but then I I I couldn’t move my arm um for like the next hour and a half wow yeah I couldn’t lift the boat up um and and the only

Thing that kind of relaxed off a little bit little bit of physio was about seven Steins of bitburger whatever we the year we did it um but that is a brutal race it’s a brutal race and you got to have especially if you’ve done it before you got to have like

Massive coonies like hug balls to kind of just just go like at 2K 2 and a2k down I go now and you just put in like minute two minutes of the hardest you can to break them uh and and if if I’m totally fair that’s like where Pete and

Andy were just excellent they were like No And they just boom went and it was like you know the you could just they just had this flick rhythm and um you basically got to accept that you will blow yeah like you can’t no one’s getting to the end of this without

Blowing so you just need to work until you got yourself in front I mean I remember just seeing wil’s head just going like like can’t yeah must have been wilker yes so cam was in the other way um and um and and then you and and

Like to Fair Play I me the ger just didn’t know what happened like they were just like devastated uh didn’t talk to us afterwards I mean look you know they shook our hands and stuff like that but they were like and uh I thought we were Invincible from you know at that point

Cuz I had that before and funny enough do you know what 2007 we doubled up in the uh we did the we did the eight in um in Amsterdam and we uh we w we beat our British a and we beat the geris and we beat the Chinese who’ all been medalists

You know the year before and we won that and that was a super eight and then finally enough that that World Champ in the four week came forth and then in KIRO you jump in the Super Eight uh Smash It and absolutely flying yeah you

Know for the whole of like the rest of the trading camp and all of that kind of stuff and uh and then we go out to carero and the final we have we’re in lane four were the favorites we won everything by Miles um and um and then the uh the wind

Was so strong that it was like medals went they one gold they two silver three bronze they four fourth Lane five fifth Lane six sixth I mean there was like that obvious for like of the six finals that day five of the six with that order and it just totally ruined the World

Champ and then it that ruined us as a four because Jurgen was looking for any excuse to to to not basically for us to not have the four and if fact you know Annie and P didn’t win the pair um so that was it that was that

Four gone no no that was 2010 yeah 201 2010 yeah 2010 was carero because then yeah and and I’m not quite sure I’m not quite sure what happened but why I didn’t didn’t get in four in 2011 um I can’t remember what what went wrong something didn’t go quite right in

2011 and um I basically ended up losing my seat race to to to Tom James um you know that was the one race I lost that year that’s that’s insane yeah absolutely and was I I I beat everyone the following Year in 2012 yeah in all the series well this is the thing

You were top of the pack top of the pack of the most successful British Squad of all home it was really tight between you know Matt langage and and Tom James and myself and Pete Pete was wasn’t really tested you know was especially in 2012

202 but I’m not Pete was phen you know just an absolute phenomenal performer on the big occasions you know he could just and Juran knew that right and I was the same all the way through and you know I could be liability because of injury and

Also because you know the way that I raced it was like get out get out in the Le and that was a bit different to to Tom James and um um but you know um there’s many measures by which you can measure like um but which you can like

Compare two athletes and what they bring to the boat and to the boat speed and how they affect the crew what I’m really astounded by is that like even at Walling qu and met and Marlo they will adjust Lanes if it’s too windy God forbid there’s a little bit of cross let

Alone World Championship I don’t understand it I think they’re under pressure for the media Windows probably there’s a lot of things that are going on that you don’t understand uh I personally was super disappointed with kapiro right I don’t think that was a fair result of all the races that I did

Of all the rest of the time I wouldn’t say that there was ever a situation where that was the case uh may you know London London Olympic Olympics you know it was breasy and you definitely wanted to be on the you know Lane uh on the on

The inside Lane on the fire Bank to the warm up Lake yeah that side um and they then see the lanes you know the following day and the day the days after um so um and and that was always the case but you know you you Al sport you got to

Take it right you got to you got to accept it and I accept all my results you know I think I was lucky to train with some amazing people you know to be able to compete against uh compete against langers as one of my be big guys

I had to compete against be in the four or whatever positions I was in and Tom James and Pete uh and all those other guys um you know over the years um I’m lucky I’m lucky because that made me the athlete that I was and I was lucky to

Rad with the people I W I rode with I was super lucky to be coached by the people I was coached by you know John West War Banks and uran you a huge influence on my life um and I got to be part of some pretty cool experiences right some amazing experiences

I think other people will describe you in a very similar way and say they lucky they got to like row with you m aldrid he named just one of his biggest rowing Heroes he said he said that when he turned up in 2016 and you’ve just shown

The Brooks athletes how to how to train you know he says that was an insane inspiration like he definitely recognizes that he’s made a big step up because of like just having you in the room and around and to push off of it to see how you train the professionalism

That you bring in ETC like that’s you know he talks about it’s like I think these old men are coming here and like getting after it like yeah like this is what we want to do and that was like I mean I remember that yeah that was like

50% of how I trained in the you know when I was in the team still pulling 9ks though yeah 9k got the best I got the best 5K at Brooks that year in 2016 what was it it was like 1601 or something okay yeah but they were like way off

Paas 1605 a yeah did a 16 not not. not once absolutely PR I mean I I did it in my garden in my lunch break um you know on on the grass wow put the on the grass bit flex in there then maybe yeah yeah drag drag maybe

125 but I remember like I just I just didn’t even look at the score for 4K I just looked up at the clouds in the back of the house and then looked down and went all right okay got to go I love um so yeah no no I mean look I’m I’m so

Lucky to erod with the people I rode with coming back in 2016 be able to ro those Brooks guys that are now you know the the kind of pill standards uh of the of the British team that was am was amazing so I know what it’s like to wrot

About orig and Rory gibs and Moran balding and you know like that’s pretty cool right so I’m still I still feel so so uh connected yeah so involved mentally in their results I want them to win so badly like I want it nothing more um for them to win um you I’m just

And I’m I’ll watch every single race they do um and I just I just you know hope and pray for those guys this you know this coming coming year that they just keep that consistency and that you know they they they pull it off when it counts uh because you know that will

Stay with them forever you can win as many world championships as you like you know it’s the but it’s the Olympic Champions that everyone remembers um so yeah good luck to them and I wish them all the best it’d be nice some nice retribution isn’t it from three years

Ago if we could pull off what we’ve done just at Worlds yeah isn’t it a measure of a champion to always look out for others and lift them up to to the standard that they they once held themselves up to I think that’s very beautiful what you said and like I’d

Like to just second that I really wish the British Team all the best the whole British team I wish we’ve got such an amazing chance you know and I don’t and this is the you know potentially the last time that we’ll see rowing over 2,000 meters right so you know I wish

Them the best to be to I wish them to cross the finish line feeling that they reached their absolute potential and there’s nothing else they could do and if they can do that then then then I think they can walk away and all their heads up high I just I hope that that’s

What they achieve and absolutely thank you so much for uh helping us organize this Alex is always fun to chat to you uh it’s fun to chat to Ben fun to chat to Al as well we’ve dropped some absolute nuggets of advice it’s it’s it’s brilliant I think a lot of rowers

And coaches and people just from around the world are going to benefit from this advice so know anytime it’s it’s always fun to have you around no it’s good to be here thanks for keep up the great work keep up the great servicing of the RO machines you guys are doing I see

Been great work all over the country yeah we’re getting around who who knows globally maybe franchise out to the US and uh and also you now got that great uh Rogue year kit with the dry the rata robe yeah rata robe nice fantastic I’ve got one of those for the Christmas

Present list this will be out after Christmas it’s all right no one no one’s going to find out uh yeah no awesome thanks thanks everything and uh yeah I mean let’s do it again sometime we we’ll we’ll get some other people together and just have another laugh I think it’ be awesome and

Remember absolutely or when training gets tough the last stroke counts that’s right that concludes everything for today’s episode so on that note easy there key the Music he