Swimmer Lucas Henveaux sat down for an insightful interview to discuss his preparations for the upcoming World Championships in Doha and his journey from golfing to swimming.
Henveaux, who swims for Belgium, opened up about his goals for the 400m freestyle and how he is working to improve both physically and mentally.
Physically, Henveaux has been putting in the yardage to condition his body to handle the demands of the 400m and had an engaging discussion about developing confidence and a winning mindset.
This interview provides valuable mental preparation as Henveaux aims to make finals and compete for a medal in Doha. Fans will be watching to see if these mindset adjustments help unlock Henveaux’s potential on the international stage.
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Lucas Hena how you doing man uh doing good how about you I’m good man where where you at uh I’m in Andor right now so that’s uh right between Spain and France up in the mountains uh doing doing some more altitude uh before before we get going to Doha in about three
Weeks okay now you you’re you’re swimming at Cal are you what’s the story with the situation with Cal yeah so I swam at Cal last year um did the whole NCA season and then I wanted to continue studying um for this season and um and what happened is I
Mean the they’re really expensive in the US if I wanted to do a master’s program um so I got off of that and and uh and went to the UK actually trained in L bro for the fall uh lb University so I was training with uh Dan wiin uh Felix
Alok those distance guys uh back there and then I joined I joined Cal for another another great camp in um in in OTC uh that was that was awesome over Christmas and and New Year’s raced in Knoxville for them and then uh and then now I’m just uh prepping whs on the
Pre-amp with uh with the Belgian Federation okay right okay that that makes sense it’s kind of sums up your your career a little bit you’re all over the place I’m trying to I’m trying to piece all the details together man because we were together up in the OTC
Just a couple of weeks ago yeah yeah we were together for for a week uh you were there uh with Marsh and dur uh yeah giving giving some of the the spring guys uh some some good pointers uh how they like it man did they did they enjoy
Me working with them yeah yeah they did um they really like that one set that you did uh this one time with the backend speed efforts and and um yeah I I think they really enjoy enjoyed it because you’re very technical also and you know your stuff and I think they
Enjoy that um uh did cool OB bber I didn’t get to work with you now in terms of eligibility for Cal are you are you done um I have technically I could get a covid waiver um and we we’ve discussed this uh before but uh with the Olympics uh we’re
We’re still trying to see where we are um on that uh because I I actually only did one season of of NCA right but uh the the thing is back when I was playing golf like a long time ago I’m sure we’ll get into that maybe a
Little bit um I I I played college golf back in 20 2018 2019 so my my my clock started back then you know okay yeah it was interesting because um you know I went to dinner with coach deran and and Coach Marsh while I was up at the OTC
And they were you know I was just talking to them I said how’s the team I said who who’s the guy on the team that kind of everybody um you know respects the most or who who’s the person that and they just kept coming back to you
They’re like Lucas Lucas is the guy Lucas is the man and they’re like you know Dave Duran was telling me he’s like you’ve gotta you got to talk to this guy you got to get him on the podcast he’s got an incredible story he he was
Playing golf in college I was like hang on wait up what he playing golf in college and now he’s he’s swimming at Cal and he’s uh he’s training for the Olympics it was like it was it was mind-blowing so I guess we’ll get into it man like uh tell us a little bit
About your background like where where did this all begin for you yeah yeah so I mean it it began I I started swimming and playing golf when I was just a kid you know my my dad was a national team coach went to seven or eight Olympic games for for Belgium uh
In swimming so so I I was you know back back since all the way since La 84 you know and um so I was I was uh I was swimming playing golf you know just going through age group ranks and I was uh I was okay when I was like 11 12
Whatever but then I was just like super short I was the shortest guy ever I have a photo here I I I thought I would show it to you so I I I clipped it I’m this little guy right here years old yeah tiny guy 15 years old this is me so I
Was playing golf at that time and about 15 16 I was like well I’m done with the swimming thing the only thing I can race is the 1500 because I’m like too weak and too short for anything else so I I the last two years of High School uh
Just like didn’t swim really uh was playing golf went to a Golf Academy in Spain for a year and then there I got I mean recruited I guess to go play uh NAIA golf um and so I had um I had a dream to play on the PJ tour you know
That was that was my my whole life that was what what I was working for um and yeah I went to the US in 2018 so at 18 years old um to play college golf and um after one year um I think I got I had a
Little bit of a realization that it might be harder than than I thought um uh to to to pursue this really and and I really didn’t like the the school um I was at uh so so I decided to come back in 2019 and just uh study do my my
Undergrad um in Belgium and I just lived you know student life for about one year um and then Co and then Co hit I guess in 2020 um and then and then when when that happened um I actually started getting back into it as as my club team
Which my dad was coaching was getting back in after Co um and yeah so I’ve been I’ve been training pretty pretty much since January 2021 uh yeah that’s about it wow wow tell tell me about golf in terms of um the the world perspective right like you you think to yourself
When you when you look at the professionals player you think to yourself well it’s it can’t be that difficult right but like there are there are thousands and thousands of kids that are playing and and all the way up through the professional ranks there’s different different levels of it but uh
The amount of money they make but you think to yourself it couldn’t be that difficult to get there but I guess it’s extremely difficult right yeah I I think there’s like a large talent to it you know you got to be you got to be born with with you know good hand eye
Coordination you know be be you know have really good feel for the club for the ball you know um but then you you have to have something here that that very few people have you you have to be able to remain extremely calm under very high pressure situations you know when
When you’re on the 18 hole trying to win a tournament you got water you know water next to the green you’ve got 18 180 yards the wind is pushing towards the water and you’ve got the flag is like tucked you know like five yards away from from a bunker and five yards
Away from the water and you got to make birdie to win the tournament um some people just you know can keep their cool extreme extremely well and you know just hit the shot when they need to hit the shot you know and um and that’s something that you know there’s not a
Lot of other sports where you have that level of pressure and you need that level of concentration um and and yeah it’s uh it’s very mental um you know I had good physical attributes I hit the ball very far um you know I have decent hand eye
Coordination but I I feel like I always struggled mentally a bit uh I would get riled up quite a bit and um and yeah but but when you when you see those guys at the top you know they they can just keep their cool better than than anyone else
Really and what about that mentality now how does it how does it serve you or how have you um learned to adapt that mentality into the water now yeah I I feel like I’m just a lot more a lot more confident now because you know you know if if you play golf
And you practice and you play nine holes and you know you shoot like you shoot two under par on nine holes like you think you can reproduce it but realistically like the next time you might go play you might shoot three over par or whatever you know but in swimming
When you have all those repetitions dayto day in training where you know you’re hit 400 pays for you know uh 3100s or whatever it may be you know like you you’re just like repeating and repeating and repeating and just improving your Technique improving your physiology you know get getting good at
Doing efforts in in practice I feel like the the confidence to be able to reproduce it in the meat is a lot higher than in golf yeah um I mean you know like some some guys on the PJ on the PJ tour might shoot you know 61 so 11 under
Par one round and shoot like 74 the next round it’s like it’s like you swimming 100 free in 47 seconds one day and going like 59 the next day you know it’s like uh it’d be it’d be very tough to build uh the same level of
Confidence um you know in golf than in swimming I feel like yeah now Dave Duran also mentioned that you’re very much a student of the sport you’re somebody that studies the sport as well so I guess you took that from the element of what you were doing with golf and having
To learn and study to to the to the pool so what what are the things you do in the pool to help you be be better at what you do yeah I mean I think that comes from from my dad you know so he he’s been coaching forever you know I
Mean swimming is part of part of our family uh my sister swims she’s going to come uh come to World Championships with me uh to swim the 4X two and and he was he was actually a commentator the last three Olympic games for for the Belgian television so you
Know uh I mean you had AO on the podcast I’m I’m pretty similar to him in the way where I just study study the greats you know uh uh all all the way back to you know your your beyond your going going into Australian freestyle swimming you know your Perkins your Duncan Armstrongs
Or yeah and and I you know I I study what they do and and I try to I’m I’m very very particular on technique also um I have hours of footage on my laptop just trying to you know um see what other people’s are doing you yeah other
People are doing and just see how I can apply it to my stroke um and and yeah I’m I’m very very thoughtful when I swim um and and I I have I feel like I have pretty good feel for for what I’m doing and if I’m applying the technical cues
That I’m I’m I’m trying to improve you know right right yeah I actually did um I asked I asked Dave Duran this question and I’ll ask you why don’t distance swimmers hold a steady six beat throughout the entire practice Yeah I um we talked about you
Asking this to to Noah and and Dave actually um oh good I I I personally kick pretty hard the whole way um I can’t race without a six beat kick even in an 800 um I feel like the reason why is that I mean I think it’s twofold when it
Gets your heart rate up a lot higher um for for the same speed you know if you can just pop the hips up and really not kick much just get into good good pulling um you can keep the heart rate down and you can keep the lactate
Down um a lot I mean obviously you’re going slower because you don’t have that propulsion behind you but like I I trained I trained for four months with uh with Dan wiffin you know and he he doesn’t kick until the last 25 of his race he’s always joking that he doesn’t
Need to to train kick only only needs to train 25 Max Speed kick because that’s all he uses it for but uh but um uh you know and and also like when you when you have the propulsion from the legs behind you well you’re G to pull Tech
Technically you’re going to pull you’re going to have less resistance on on the on the C so you’re going to pull less water than you would if you were just pulling so so they can actually get to like someone like Dan someone like Felix also can actually like pull like more
Water uh when they don’t kick than if they would kick you know um obviously the rate is a little a little higher for you know then and they get into really good rhythm of just like pulling and keeping the hips High and um but I feel like in training especially for Middle
Distance guys I would think like 200 400 guys I think it it’d be pretty crucial to six be kick the whole way because I mean you see the guys now like if you don’t if you don’t come back like 26 High even in an 800 really like you got
To be able to kick you know yeah oh yeah I mean you kicking is obviously fastest which is why Dan brings it in the last 25 because he’s going to accelerate so my my my kind of thinking is like why don’t we train it more and you said well
It Jacks your heart rate up well that’s because we don’t train it enough and don’t you think we could condition ourselves and we could control our heart rate even more if we were to incorporate it more into practice right and then then maybe cut the yardage down a little
Bit right so like instead of swimming as the the bulk of the yardage maybe you bring it down a little bit you include the kick you practice training faster because I remember I was watching a swim you I think you were doing some some backend 50s and you brought the legs in
I was like what why doesn’t he train like that I pointed I was telling Josh I was like Josh why doesn’t he train like that because he looks amazing he’s like cu because you can’t hold it that long you know I was like well TR it you know
Yeah but yeah yeah I I I agree with that to to a certain extent uh but at some point like the energy expenditure is just I mean when you’re kicking like six B you know you’re if I’m pushing a 24 at the end of practice or whatever um well
The the the amount I need to kick for that is just so high that the total energy expenditure for the body is just too high to be able to really hold it like a significant amount even if you trained it like and and I mean when
Someone like you know like you see Dan Sam short half now like these guys like pull so well and can keep their body line so well when they just you know don’t kick like keep keeping the the heart rate down for so for so long is
Probably good to be able to bring it back 53 in the last 100 of of an 800 you know because it’s like they still keep the body line very very you know straight and very very high on the water even though they don’t kick you know I
Agree I agree but the problem the look I I keep I’m going to keep throwing counter arguments at you because I like this right so my counter argument to this again would be I saw Ian Thorp swim multiple 340s long course right I saw him swim multiple 340s long
Course and and I’m talking 20 years ago so in order to progress the sport in order to move forward in order to go forward if we just tra if we just keep training the system the same way right if we just keep saying well it costs too much leg expenditure or energy
Expenditure to run the legs so we’re just going to we’re going to train the length and the system well then all of all of a sudden it’s just a bunch of guys training the same system and who can hold it who can be the longest who
Can be the strongest on the pull but no one’s really focused on the legs now if we focus on the legs more in the 400 don’t you think at some point we’re going to start to see guys swim under 340 yeah I think so and I I think I
Think what’s really crucial is actually being able to swim with different leg like kick rates and and that’s what when you saw like um when when uh Thorp broke the world record next to hacket I think it was 2000 it wasn’t in fukoka it was before
That he went 739 I think when he broke Kieran perkins’s world record um he’s actually not kicking I mean he’s like steady kicking and then he brings it in at the end but then in the 400 he kicks a lot harder and then the two in the 200
He has the best kick out of everyone and I think being able to kick at different rates actually allows you to have such a larger range of events you know like I’ve heard I’ve heard stuff on your I think where he could go like a 3K for
Time in like 30 30 like 30 minutes basically you know but he could also swim 48 484 back in those days with no wedge and you know and medal at the Olympics into 100 and I think that comes from the legs just being able to be incredibly fast probably being able to
Kick like around a minute I guess long course and and and then and then actually being able to like you like keep the body line nice and use them a little softer in like a 1500 or like an 800 and and that I think brings like a
Lot more range to the to what you’re able to do yeah yeah not agree with you on that one completely and this is where I think you know we’re seeing we’re seeing this kind of um kind of bottleneck of these distance swimmers you know coming in now like you
You mentioned a bunch of guys already you know and and I think the the at the Olympics this year I mean we’re going to see some incredible races in the in the four you know the the do they even have an 800 at the Olympics no
Yeah yeah yeah eight yeah they do now eight and 15 yeah 815 yeah yeah they do okay there we go so like I think we’re going to see some incredible races in those but just because the the amount of guys but again like how are we going to
Create separation is it just going to be who trains the system the best or is it going to be like you said somebody who can figure out okay the legs are important here why don’t I why don’t I in you know and and half now he maybe
Maybe the guy because when he kicks he’s got some he’s got some dirty kick you know so yeah he does I don’t know what he’s up to where he’s training these days but um yeah maybe it’s you man maybe maybe we see you or what about you
You’ve got the legs you got them in you yeah yeah I mean that’s what I’m trying to do I feel like you know if I can take it out with I mean the I feel like I’m in a weird spot because all the 400 guys are the same guys that’s from the 1500
Now and all the 200 guys are the same guys who can go 47 low in the 100 but so if if I’m where I want to be I’d have the most speed out of the 400 guys and if I’m where I want to be I’d have the
Most endurance out of the 200 guys but obviously I’d be lacking the endurance in the four and I’d be lacking the speed in the two I feel like if I can you know take it out with a lot of easy speed in that first 100 kind of like thorpy did
You know that one time where you went out 52 he went 340 going at 52 to first 100 right and then and then he C kind of steadies it out you know for the next 200 and then just rips it back home right um I think I think that’d be a
Good a good strategy you know and and and that’d be a different way to swim it because right now the way to swim it is just these guys are just repping 28 zeros in the middle you know and and that’s very very impressive and but I
Don’t think for me that’d be the way to swim it um because I think I can take advantage of my cake a little more and maybe take it out be out there you know you use use my efficiency and my long stroke in that middle 200 and then
Really bring the last 100 um yeah that’s what I’m trying to do how do you know when you’re in when you’re in a a race like that how how do you know the the pace is it just from the training itself and knowing the feel of the pace or
Knowing the impact that it’s having on your body like if you were to if you would to push a little harder and and and you know turn in a 275 l so you you could feel that then right yeah yeah you could you could probably feel it like
When when you take the turn after 275 and you get off the wall you can probably start feeling it pretty quickly feeling the legs right yeah yeah you’re feeling the legs butat a lot and then I feel like for me what happens is because I’m I’m 6B kicking the whole way in a
400 and but my legs can hold pretty well but I guess like there’s too much blood coming to my legs and then it’s actually my arms were really dying by by the last 100 um and and that’s where I started losing a lot of the length you know
Because I can I can go like 28 lows 28 FS no problem with like 28 29 strokes but as soon as we go to that I start going to 32 33 Strokes you know because I’m losing quite I’m losing stroke length um because my arms just get really
Tired yeah yeah how do you guys look at the the field now like the field is deep in terms of the assessment of of each one of the contenders like everybody’s got their own strengths and weaknesses I guess is that how you kind of evaluate the
Field yeah yeah I mean and you I mean you look at everyone you look at you know Sam shorton half now you’ve been 340 you look at Elijah who’s been 341 uh Lucas m has been 341 and then there’s kind of a gap you know it’s like
Those four guys have been 341 and faster and then you have all the guys who’ve been 343 mid and and you know 343 mid to 344 and in that group you’ve got like Gil M Costa you’ve got Felix albach you’ve got uh you know you’ve got Dan wiffin you’ve
Got Kieran Smith who’s been that you know and I think there’s a little bit of a separation uh right now that those four guys have have made at the front and I mean I guess those guys are there to stay you know and and and and the
Race is going to be it’s GNA be great and and you know but I’m my goal is not to try to be in that race with the 343 guys and I know those guys also are trying to catch up to those four guys who’ve been 341 and faster you know yeah
Interesting you know so I was going to say that so you’re you’re kind of seeing yourself in that mix with those guys so th those guys are all trying to answer the same question how do I get from here and go to there so like what what what
Has been the separation for these few guys up here like what have they done that the rest haven’t been able to figure out yet yeah I mean I think when I see it hawi and short like I see that they can hold like such a higher rate than
Everyone else you know they’re hold a 44 rate for the whole 400 um I look at someone like Lucas Martins well he’s 1448 in the two3 which is faster than you know anyone anyone’s been anyone that swims the you know the the the 400 has been so he’s the fastest
Guy out of out of everyone in that in that for free and then Elijah just you know had had this crazy swim in Budapest where he went 341 and and you know he can you know he he kind of does the strategy we talked about earlier where
He really like goes out the first 100 kind of settles back and then could bring it back home in a 26 low on the last 50 and um yeah I I think the way I’m looking at it I need to hold a higher rate to be able to you know
Kind of hang with those guys because I’m I’m rating like 34 35 in my 400 which is very very low um and and then and then I got to improve my my top end speed as well to be able to to go out and you know because Sam even Sam’s going out
149 now you know so yeah it’s it’s very interesting because there’s a lot of different strategies and if you actually look at the race like like you can see like you have short and and hawii are there then you have Felix is a little behind at the
Start but then he brings it back and then you have Lucas Martins on the side and like it’s it’s very um you know there’s a lot of different strategies going on and and it’s very interesting yeah how does it feel to go to kind of like a World
Championships Olympic games um and and still be doing the type of yardage that you’re doing and looking over and seeing guys like me in the shower just taking hot showers relaxing you know getting ready for the Sprints and then you’re over there pumping out the yardage
Still I mean I’m not GNA lie to you I um I saw this thing one time I think when Ben tiley was like uh he said uh people train for uh no people go up in distance until their slowness is fast enough for that distance you know and I’m I’m not going
To lie to you if I if I if I could go 215 and 53 I’d probably just swim the 503 you know if I could go 40 you know 46 469 or 468 in the 100 I’d probably do that also um you know I’m good friends
With with Jack and and you you’ve seen him train and I I respect I respect him tremendously and and like doing what he does is like I feel like I mean the 100 free is like the the blue ribbon event at the Olympics you know that’s what
That’s the event everyone wants to swim everyone wants to win you know the World Turns on for that event um so yeah if if I could go 47 low 46 I’d love to do that now you just had some success in Knoxville did you just break the Belgium record in the
800 yeah yeah so I went 755 which is pretty good in season but like when you see those guys going seven like low 740s you know at uh even high at World Championships like I I I’m debating whether I should add the event to my lineup um
I’m I’m entering it in um in Doha but I’m not sure that I’ll swim it um yeah uh so yeah that was belgi record in the in the eight yeah congrats man that’s awesome but so what’s the target then what’s the lineup so ultimately the target is the
Four yeah 400 and 200 I mean I I was I was 146 uh 146 uh two last year trying to bring that down you know to to the high 145s which would final um I think it was 145 97 to to get in the final so
Not that far off and and then the four um at 346 low I’m trying to I’m trying to bring that down to like 344 and trying to be in that final and and hopefully even lower than that to to compete for you know for for the the
Spots on the on the box you know yeah how do you feel about Doha man uh you I was talking to Matt Richards the other day and he was he was telling me that he’s probably going to be sitting in the stands for the the final of the the 2003
You know so like you got the you got the defending World Champ I guess um sitting in the stands watching how would you feel about that I mean obviously you you want the best you want to race against the best competition um I think he’s go from what
I I saw I think he’s going but maybe swimming the 50 and the 100 um but yeah I mean you know you I I feel like a lot of people will say like oh if if you know people who medal in like slower times than in fukoka they’ll be
Like oh yeah it’s it’s not real it doesn’t count I still feel like you gota you got to show up you gotta like be really good you got to be top three in top three in the world out of the people who are doing it but obviously it
Doesn’t uh I don’t think it carries the same if you know you have papovich who went 142 not even two years ago it’s not going to do it if you have Matt Richard that’s in the stands watching um um I think it’s a little different because you you you want to if
You want to be the best you you know you have to you have to beat the best and and you have to race against those guys and and the experience of racing against those guys is invaluable you know um yeah and and and yeah if if yeah if
They’re not swimming it um because they’re focused on their Olympic preparation like that’s totally understandable and and I respect that um but obviously it’ll be a little different to to not get to raise these guys yeah when was the last time uh a Belgium swimmer made the final in the T
Three um never um I think so I broke the Belgian record last year so I think the Belgian record before that was 146 95 so I think that may maybe maybe semi-final at the Olympics um but I mean we had Peter timers who got silver in in the 100
Three in in Rio uh 4780 uh that’s that was that was obviously one of the highlights of of Belgian swimming and and and then we have two other medals at the games 96 Fred de B graa won the 100 breast and then I think it’s 0 1984 we had a girl
Medal in the in the two breast um yeah um fining in the two and the four is now that’s obviously the goal and um yeah that that’d be the Bel first Belgian guy to do that yeah I um it’s interesting you know like where you talk about fining right like
CU I I remember myself having that mentality uh as an Australian swimmer you know no Australian swimmer had ever ever made the final of the 50 freestyle in the Olympics so my goal was to be that guy I I had a very similar mindset
To you like I want to make the final and and ultimately I went on to do that and and one of my I don’t know if it’s a life regret but one of my my thoughts that I had to myself is like well if I gave myself
That standard and I did it and yet I still fell short by a few 100s of winning a medal why didn’t I just think about getting on the podium you know what I mean like that that’s kind of one of my regrets in life of like like I did
That and it was it was great but why didn’t I just put myself on the podium before I did that you know and maybe I had a chance then and I never gave myself that mental opportunity do you do you feel that way a little bit um
I mean honestly like I’m I’m saying now that my my goal is to final Etc but like realistically I’m not really thinking about what I what I would place or like what my position would be against other guys I’m just like trying to find a I
Mean trying to find a way to swim 340 you know like sub 340 and and whether that’s this year whether that’s next year whether that never happens like that’s kind of what one of my life goals you know is you know thinking about breaking 340 and I mean it’s it’s a big
Claim to come and say that when you know you’ve been 3 46 but like um that’s just what I what I aim for and puts me first fourth or I’m you know or I break the world record like that’s that’s great but like I I really think that that
Would be pushing the human limit and and that’s what I I want to be doing I don’t because because I can’t control what you know Sam schw hawi all the all the other guys are going to go and and if they go 337 and and I’m I’m fifth with a 339 I
Still think I’d be I’d be extremely happy you know yeah I think you would be as well I mean but uh yeah I mean I but I I did read a quote where I think at the was it the last World Championships where you you didn’t qualify for the
Final you were sitting there in the stands and you were kind of pissed off because you thought I could be there I could beat those guys I can compete with those guys didn’t you think that yeah yeah yeah I I did um uh I did
And I was I was really pissed because I I think I I I should have been a lot better uh in those prelims and and that’s also I mean like I’ve done two International championships in my life you know like I went to Europeans in
2022 and worlds in 2023 and that’s and I I guess European short course this year but like I I need to learn how to swim in the morning I need to learn how to like from fast in the morning I need to learn how to get into a call room with
All these guys and feel zero intimidation um I I need to be able to walk out and see the crowd and and not feel intimidated and then I need to be able to execute the race plan you know once I dive in no matter what happens in
The race you know like like uh my my heat this year at Worlds like went out incredibly fast um like 149 to to the 200 and I was 151 low to the 200 which is faster than I’ve ever been and that wasn’t my race strategy you know the the
Way for me to swim it is probably be you know 152 152 high and just even split it you know that that’s the way I like to swim it and and I just like got caught up and you know I get I get sometimes I
Get in in the call room and I’m like oh damn like that’s Tom Dean you know he’s wow like you know that’s that’s who he is whatever you know and I see myself looking around a little bit because I don’t have the the experience yet and I
Haven’t had that many reps at that level you know it’s interesting that you’re talking about this because and I appreciate your your honesty and your openness because um you know I have very similar experiences in my life like you and and um and I look back on it and and I I
Remember thinking the same way as you and and uh you know I see you and and I watch you and I listen to you talking about all this time and energy you’re putting into preparing your system phys physiologically right like you’re you’re preparing this system and the only
Things you mentioned in terms of performance were mental things right like you you didn’t talk about and th those were the things that affected your performance the most so like you’re spending all this time physically preparing the body but the things that affect you the most once you get to the
Meat are mental things aren’t they yeah yeah yeah 100% so how do you prepare then how do you how do you train for that mentally then like if you’re if you’re getting yourself physically you’re spending hours and hours and hours physically what are you doing mentally to prepare yourself for those
Situations yeah so i’ I’ve been starting to work with a with a sport psychologist which has been ve very helpful um but I think ultimately it’s just getting a lot of reps against these guys and racing these guys a lot so even though this is Olympic here like I want to compete as
Much as I can against the top guys so that’s why I chose to go to Doha that’s why I went to European Shore course that’s why I’ll probably go to European you know in June to go and and to try to race those top guys because I I don’t
Want to I don’t want that to happen again where I walk in the call room and I’m looking around you know just like look like seeing all these guys and being like ah maybe I mean I don’t have that pedigree like they have you know and and yeah I think working with a
Sports psychologist and and and putting stuff into place every time I race to be able to you know go into a race against the best in the world and and feel comfortable um is great you know and and that’s why Knoxville like obviously it’s January it’s in season but like being
Able to to swim next to Bobby next to next to Felix next to a lot a lot of the a lot of those guys and actually being able to like hold off Bobby at the end maybe we’re not in the same place training wise maybe maybe he just didn’t
Have his best race but like it still adds to my confidence to be able to to beat some of those guys you know yeah yeah yeah I can I can identify with you a lot and um and even even the language that you’re using right now I would I
Would disagree with I would tell you to change the way that you speak to yourself you know you you give these guys too much credit and look I’m not taking away from the fact that they’re phenomenal athletes but what what you’re not doing is you’re not giving yourself
Enough credit of where you are and who you are you you keep referring to these guys as the top guys the top guys the top guys and so it’s almost like when you see that person you’re automatically giving that person you’re elevating that person above you that person’s better
Than me they’re a top guy when you’re you’re kind of like not looking at yourself that way like you’re a top guy and maybe they’re thinking that about you maybe they see you walk into the room and they say oh [ __ ] there’s Lucas he’s a top guy right and so here’s you
Saying that about them and maybe they’re saying the same thing about you and you’re not even giving yourself credit for that you know yeah yeah that’s true and and that’s actually something Marsh has talked to me uh Dave Marsh has talked to me a lot and he you know he he
Kept on on um being like you need to establish yourself and feel about yourself like you’re one of the best in the world and and that’s the that’s the only way for you to actually be comfortable in those situations um is is to go out there and feel like you belong
There like you are one of the best guys in the world and feel like and yeah I guess you’re right in saying that I I need to change the way I’m talking to myself because all all the talk and like whether it’s talking to someone or
Talking to myself if I continue then I I I’ll continually get to you know the Olympics or or worlds and and still continue thinking in oh these guys are the tough guys I want to ask you when you would when you were swimming like you know 53 final you in Athens you walk
Into the call room do do you look at these Gary Hall do you look at pop off do you these guys as the top guys or or did you feel like you were part of them no 100% you’re right you know um I looked at them and I and I thought of
Them as the top guys right like when I when I finally made the final of the Olympics I was 29 years old you know and and I had spent a lifetime trying to get to that point and you’re in that moment for 10 minutes you know like it’s 10
Minutes of your life and so when you’re in that moment you you realize this is this is it like I I have trained and I have lived years and years and years and I’ve trained so hard to get to this point and it’s a it’s a 10-minute event
And now I’m in it and I’m like wow I made it there’s that guy there’s that guy there’s that guy right now I’m in the Olympic final I look outside there’s thousands of people in the stands there’s millions of people watching on TV I have like gone over this event over
And over in my head a million times wanting just to be in that moment and here I am in this moment now right it’s it’s it’s here so you spend that amount of time thinking about all the time you you took to get to that moment right
Instead of just saying this is my moment I’m here now I am exactly where I need to be and and I own this moment and and I spent the whole time thinking about how how you know how how much I had to put in to get to that thing you know
It’s like so I spent all this time wasting about like all this other [ __ ] that didn’t matter you know instead of just saying I’m here this is my moment you know and so because because it kind of hits you you’re it surprises you like oh wow I’m actually here now you know so
Yeah yeah um yeah I think you got to spend more time preparing for that moment to say when I’m in it I’m going to I’m going to embrace it I’m going to enjoy it I’m G to own it right I’m G to own that moment even though I know it’s
Only 10 minutes that’s the 10 minutes I’m going to own instead of spending all this time thinking about oh wow I finally made it to here you know what I mean yeah yeah yeah so yeah I think I think there’s a lot to learn from that and uh so I would
Recommend to you if I was going to recommend anything to you I would recommend expecting yourself to be in the fnal in Doha expecting certain people to be in that room with you expecting to feel a certain way about the the expectation of being in that
Room right like I expected to be here this is exactly what I plan to to to be here for and this and I’m going to do exactly what I plan to do so if you if you already have this plan in place and not be surprised by like oh wow I can’t
Believe I made it look at look at me look where I am then it’s like now you’re confident and comfortable in that moment now you can own that moment more so than being surprised that you’re actually there you know yeah yeah and yeah that’s a good point and I I noticed
This with uh Jack Alexi at at Worlds so in fuk you know like I trained with him the whole the whole semester and you know like I I I get to the pool and I’m in like every day and I’m incredibly confident in myself and what I what I’ll
Be able to do in practice and you know I’m just like they’re ready to go and just like I I know what I’m working towards and I’m super confident in that moment and then I see and you know Jack is just like he he’s I mean you know how
Locked in he is and and that kind of stuff but then I see him walk at World Championships and he’s walking around like he owns the place you know he has that confidence he has that mentality where he knows he I mean he he he knows
He’s capable of it he knows he can beat all the guys next to him and I mean he he walks in that ready room he just does his thing and then he goes and you know drops so much time gets two silver medals you know and and I was really
Impressed when when I would see him walk around you know walk around pool deck walk around the warm-up pool and team area he was just like standing incredibly tall you know and you could tell he had like a confidence to him you know and and that’s something that
I’m I feel like I was missing last year and I’m I’m really working towards I I talked I talked with Jack a lot about it and he gave me some good pointers yeah about that as well and yeah I think some people have it naturally and then some
Of us like people like you and I have to have to fake it right in a way in and and I’m not saying that in a in a bad way right like if we don’t if we miss the boat on this and we don’t have that confidence then we don’t perform at our
Best so our only hope is to figure out a way to put ourselves in a position where we can believe that right so what I would do and this is maybe a recommendation I would give to you again is it’s almost like a um like a superhero you know that the superhero
Has somebody they are and then then somebody they become right almost like a Incredible Hulk or or a Superman right Superman is very uncon you know he’s very unsure of himself as Clark Ken and then he goes into that phone booth and he takes the clothes off and so maybe
Even create um some type of event like that where when you put your suit on when you what is that thing you’re wearing right now is that a Belgium uh the yeah Olympic Committee yeah yeah exactly so that’s a special thing so when put this tracksuit on you become something different and it’s
Almost like you you have this different Persona where you become this ultra um confident Beast you know but it’s only when you put that tracksuit on and then you take it off and you and you unsure of yourself you have fears you have doubts and then you put that on and
Everything goes away right so like you’ve got to create some sort of event in the leadup to this and it may only be just a short amount of time where you where you’ve got a window you might say okay I’ve got this window window of two
Hours when I put this thing on for two hours then I’m I’m completely different human and then I take it off and I’m back to being humble and shy and unsure of myself whatever you can be whatever you want to be but but when you put that uniform on you become something
Completely different you know what I mean yeah yeah I get that that yeah that’d be good thank you for that yeah yeah yeah look it’s just um it’s worth trying uh and like you you have a situation now where you got the World Championships coming up so it’s
Definitely look I would do a lot of mental preparation to put yourself in that room I would prepare yourself to feel a certain way when you want to and and then just go out and test it and then it’s a matter of just uh repeating that because ultimately what you’re
Trying to do is prepare yourself for Paris you know you want to you want to be at your best in Paris so this is a a dress rehearsal this is a trial run for you to say yeah look at the end of the day the guys you’re competing against
They don’t have an extra arm than you they don’t have an extra they don’t have two hearts right they they’re built exactly the same as you right and often what we do is we we give them we we we we say they’re more than us you know and
They’re not more than us they’ve got two hands two arms two legs two feet you know a heart they’re exactly the same they’re built the same way the only thing they do is like Jack Alexi they see themselves as Superior at that point in time and it’s it’s a short period of
Time Jack Alexi doesn’t walk around like he’s Superior all the time no no no but when he’s at the World Champ ship and he’s trying to win the 100 freestyle for that two hours he’s Superior right and so he allows himself that time to say
This is my time to feel Invincible to to feel like a superhero so yeah just um take on a different Persona at that point in time you know okay yeah yeah thank you yeah yeah you’re right there man you you’ve come a long way you know
And uh and I imagine it’s the same thing on the golf course you know you at some point yeah at some point you just have to turn turn your brain off and say hey the the tournament depends on this shot I got I got to I got to take this shot
I’m I’m going to hit this shot like you know and it’s the same thing if you have all these doubts and fears and insecurities then you know you’re not going to make the shot you know it’s it’s it’s inevitable you’re not going to make the shot if you if you don’t
Believe it so yeah you got to do the same thing in the pool yeah yeah yeah yeah so uh that was interesting I enjoyed that man thanks yeah thank you thank you yeah took me back to some racing there I like that yeah yeah I mean I I I I think
I needed some of that to hear it from maybe someone outside of you know my my circle of of people and and you you went pretty deep in that and and I think that that helped me and I like the idea where you’re saying like put your tracksuit on
And just you know for those two hours you’re just you’re just something different I learned this from somebody you know some somebody uh some somebody once told me that that surgeons you know the yeah in the hospital can be yeah yeah can be arrogant and cocky you know
But um but outside of surgery they’re not like that you know and and one of the things that somebody told me is like the surgeons have a uniform you know and it hangs in their locker and when they come in that day to do surgery they take
Off their work clothes they take off their regular human clothes and they put on this surgery uniform and they become something completely different right yeah you know in order to you know surgically work on a human and save that person’s life and and intricately work on a heart you you better be confident
You know you better be confident you better have you better have an arrogance and a confidence to say I’m gonna I’m gonna get this like this yeah nobody else can do this nobody else can save this person’s life I’m going to go in and and do surgery on this heart so what
I heard these surgeons when they put their uniform on and walk into surgery they’re they’re completely different people you know and I’m like oh that makes sense you know it’s like it’s the same thing it’s like you know you put a uniform on a policeman a policeman has
To have a certain Persona you know when they walk into uh a situation you know they’ve got this police uniform on they’re not they’re not human at that point they’re police right so it’s like every every type of profession has something like that a fireman you know
You you you go into a you send me into a fire I’m going to freak out but you you put a uniform on me and a fire hat and a badge and give me this hose like I’m I’m taking that fire down you know what I mean so it’s like it’s the same
Mentality that we have to have as athletes it’s like we put on our athletic uniform where we’re something completely different now you know yeah yeah yeah and what what what’s interesting with me is I’m I’m able to get in a similar state in training I put
My suit on I I look at the board and I’m like all right I’m taking this on like this is going to be I I’m never like scared or whatever of something that’s going to happen in practice but once once you get to the to compete and and
Go against these other people that’s that’s when it kind of changes for me and and yeah I I gotta really work on that um between now and Paris yeah exactly stop giving these guys credit you know uh I I tell this story occasionally on on my podcast and and I
And I’ll tell it again because I think it’s very very important um you know the the time the most nervous I’ve ever been in my life is is trying to make the Olympic team in 2000 right like it was it was my home Olympics you know imagine this you know
You have the home Olympics you’re uh you’re competing with guys like Ian Thorp who who had held up on this pedestal like the greatest athletes of all time so like to to make the Australian Olympic team in Sydney this is the biggest deal you can you can
You can have as an athlete and a swimmer like a swi swimmer in Sydney in Australia like that’s the ultimate right it’s the Pinnacle so yeah I remember sitting in my hotel room there was a bed like this I was sitting in my hotel room and I was tossing and turning all day
You know because the finals are at night you know so you saw the semi-final the night before then you have 24 hours off and so I go back to my hotel room and rest I tell you what I was tossing and turning in this bed the whole day
Tossing and turning toss I couldn’t I couldn’t get comfortable I couldn’t relax I couldn’t relax and I uh remember getting in a rush like okay it’s time it’s time it’s I’m ready to go I’m ready to go like here we go here we go it’s
Time it’s time it’s time and and I’m I’m I’m I’m in a rush you know I’m like let’s go let’s go so I put my stuff on I grab everything I grab everything I can feel my heartbeat like and and I’m like okay come on here we go it’s time time
To make the Olympic team you know like I’m putting all this pressure on myself I’m freaking out I’m like I’m amped up I’m I got the adrenaline pumping and and and I’m and I’m hoping like I can feel the hope you know Lucas I’m like I I
Hope hope I hope I get this I hope this works out and I remember like walking out the door and just as the door was about to close behind me I stopped the door and I’m like I can’t I can’t leave like this like I’m I’m too I’m too
Anxious I’m like I’m like this I’m like I’m not gonna I’m not going to make the team like this so I remember walking back in I remember looking in the mirror in my in my bedroom you know yeah I just like looked at myself I’m like stop like
Stop like you you got this you’re good enough yeah you’ve trained for this this is just a swim from here to there like every other day you do this in practice every day you you are going to dominate this race and nobody is going to come close to you stop doubting yourself when
You walk out this room you’re a completely different person again again I had these thoughts of myself like you’re you’re going to be a different person and I remember walking out the second time walking towards the the the pool and I was calm I was relaxed reled
I was in control I had confidence you know and I and I everything slowed down for me five minutes before this everything was speeding up everything was in a rush and I remember slowing things down pulling back time as if time was standing still and I was like it was
Like I had control of time you know like you I have control of this this is my time everything’s going to happen when I want it to happen you know and then I went out there and I and I broke the Australian record like I SW faster than
I’ve ever swam I dominated the race I made the Olympic team and then again as soon as I touched the wall I was like I had all these I had all these insecurities like how did I do that you know like so I I have had experience
With this I I didn’t always put it into practice you know I think it’s harder when you have guys like uh that you rever that you that you admire around you yeah you know you you do put them up on a pedestal sometimes you just have to
Put the blinkers on on and say this this one’s mine This Is My Race you know so I’d like to see you do that in Doha I’m going to be in Doha with you I’m going to be there um I’m gonna be watching you I’m gonna be supporting and cheering you
And um I want to see you walk out and I I want to I want to point and be like yeah yeah he’s ready he’s ready you know yeah okay yeah I like that all right cool man sorry for the lecture I didn’t mean to lecture you I just wanted to
Have a chat you know no no I I love this this is awesome um and and and it’s actually you know I’ve talked to a lot of coaches about training physiology and all that stuff and I don’t spend enough like you said earlier I don’t I don’t
Spend enough time focusing on the on the psychological aspect of it and and having conversations like these um I’m sure I’m gonna are sure are gonna help me in in those moments you know because the the the moments in training they’re every day they’re they’re easy to go by
But you only have one or two or three moments where you you walk in into an Olympic final or something and and it’s conversations like these that that are going to help me you know in those moments so thank you for that yeah well I appreciate it um you know all I would
Say is if you if you train if you train your hot if you train your system then you can train your mind as well so put yourself in scenarios that that feel like the scenario that You’ be in in doar or Paris you know maybe maybe have
A a ready room set up and you walk in and you just start to visualize and you start to feel and you start to imagine that moment and and when it happens you know even imagine yourself being comfortable in that moment because once you’re there once you do get into that
Moment even all the imagining that you’ve done is only relative if you allow yourself to still be comfortable in that moment you know so it’s like that that’s the training that you need to put in it’s just that comfort of I belong here this is the time where I’m
Going to go out and and and perform and and allow my training just to take over like you said you know like if I’ve trained to swim at a level of 340 or better then I’m going to allow my body to do that you know it’s like you give
Yourself permission to say go and do what your training you know allows you to do so yeah you just give yourself a mission on that you know so yeah yeah all right okay awesome all right this has been cool man you got a you got a
Look good good career ahead of you and I’m I’m excited for what’s ahead this year it’s going to be a good year man and um anytime you refer to anything being big refer to yourself okay thank you thank you br all right all right my friend take care Lucas well thanks for
Having me on this this was awesome and uh yeah well hope to see you in Doha yeah and listen if if things if uh if things work out this year and and we have a great year like we expect to have then we’re going to do this again and
We’re going to talk about the things that you put into place okay awesome great love it thanks Lucas take care man thank you byebye thank you
1 Comment
I could feel my Heart Rate going up when Brett discussing his Pre Trials anxieties!!
That’s the way as a listener we connect with him!!
Great Podcast Brett like every time!!
Now more eyes on 400 free at Worlds 😂😂