Honesty Hour: Kirkland Signature Golf | No Putts Given

An unexpected win at The Sony, what’s really going on at Costco and what have Chris and Tony finally landed on in their bag? All this and more in today’s NoPuttsGiven. Looking for something specific? Go ahead and tap MORE 👉🏽

01:14 – 🏆 Murray WHO?
04:24 – 📍 W.I.T.B. / Tony & Chris
14:58 – 🏌🏻‍♂️Enter, ShotScope
16:52 – 🆕 Embargo SZN
52:25 – 🥃 Aftershow
55:32 – 📊 Market Share Battle

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Yeah kig kig Kirkland Signature Performance Plus V3 I need to know I need to know ball lab coming Friday I think it’s what you should expect for the money what you should expect for the money ladies and gentlemen children of all ages people out there in the

Equipment sphere buckle up put on your seat belts cuz we got a lot of equipment to go through how you living everybody it’s no puts given how about them Cowboys how about them Cowboys America’s team that’s America’s Team America is Uh I said I said they should be should have been called the uh the a Prescott because there was no D in Dallas yesterday that was just a wonderful thing to watch for those of us who don’t like Dallas but that was a good day like I watched Real Madrid absolutely

Throttle Barcelona earlier in the day and then the Cowboys defense I I don’t know where they were that’s they didn’t show up they were not involved they didn’t uh they didn’t get the M the playoffs were starting but Grayson Murray Grayson uh Grayson Murray got the

Memo he won the Sony Open in a three-way playoff drained a bomb 39 feet something like that took a peek in his bag again we don’t get into what’s in the back stuff a ton but this puts mauno on the board for mauno this is a a big deal not

Because he’s playing Mao irons everybody in you know their mom knows it Mao makes makes fantastic irons but it was an STX 230 driver number one Strokes gained off the te by more than a little I Believe by more than a little and mauno t24 four

Wedges I think that’s also kind of a big deal because how many times have we heard like oh yeah if muna’s irons are so great how come the the wedges don’t get necessarily the same love that their irons get well he killed it sand Sage

Was he like 100% on the last day that was pretty cool if you that’s all right Fairway Woods Tony you and GRS have something in common I do see a triple diamond seven wood in there love it and last but not least in what is becoming almost a weekly event it

Feels like on this show let’s hear it for lab Golf Putters look at the like he didn’t have like the best ever week putting but boy when uh he did drain a clutch one there didn’t he hey he did and I’m just saying you know how many putter companies that

Started out once upon a time it was a fantasy land for them to say get in the bag of a PG Tour player let alone win on tour let alone win multiple times on tour it is a train it’s a locomotive and it ain’t slowing down in

2024 I think it just is picking up you know I think I think maybe we notice it more because they’re they are smaller brands that you don’t expect to see like if if somebody wins with an Odyssey Putter unless it’s sort of like what we saw last year with like the jailbird

Sort of Randomness where all of a hey we haven’t seen this particular putter before but like when when Odyssey wins you almost don’t notice because there are just so many of them in Play Scotty wins you you don’t notice necessarily it’s not to take any credit away from

Them but by any means but when when a small company wins whether it’s a lab even roll has some wins over the years right it’s it’s it definitely catches your attention more if only because we know right we’ve heard stories of how difficult it is for a small brand to

Break through because Brands like Odyssey and Brands like uh Scotty Cameron have such a strangle hold on the tour right and the politics that go into to what makes it in a bag right behind the scenes so yeah any anytime was like I said lab even roll anytime you see

Like a small company win with almost anything it catches your attention for sure absolutely does absolutely does so more to come there but I mean just just phenomenal I was looking at a couple questions on the interwebs specifically on the Twitter can be can’t anywhere can’t anywhere be a terrible

Place anyway one person asked a question there’s a post I said hey Tony Chris we need what’s in the bag for you fellas this year so said okay maybe we can do that but very very briefly Tony what is your process going to look like for you

You like maybe just take me through like what are you looking for out of each slot in your bag or maybe four or five different slots how how are you going to go through this evaluation process yeah so I think I think I’m probably gonna stick with T300 in the irons right I’m

Uh 350 yeah those those that ones okay yeah whatever I have it’s not good with the numbers these days um okay yeah like I that’s a spot where you iron iron play has never been the strength of my game and it’s it’s been better than ever with

350 and so there’s there’s not as much Temptation there uh wedges there’s some stuff coming that I want to look at some stuff that’s intriguing but by and large I’ve become a little bit of a creature of habit with Voki uh so we know right we can say sm10

They’re out on tour we’re allowed to can’t give you any details but we can we can say those words we see the they’re out on tour they’re they’re yeah they’ll be tour fair game they’ll be indeed uh so become a little bit of a creature habit with that and and not for

Anything right the fact that we’re able to every two years go out there and get that wedge fitting and understanding how important that is huge that’s that’s tough so where where the where the volatility in my bag is always the driver like never ever a year where I’m

Not looking at drivers and you know I’ve been I I love the TSR stuff could could find it way back in the bag but as you know I’m I’m really excited about Paradigm particularly excuse me Paradigm AI smoke particularly Triple Diamond um dark speed which we can finally talk

About in will in a little bit dark speed is about two and a half minutes here we’re going to talk about dark speed I think there I think there’s something special baked into dark speed so that’s in the running and then if things go south for me as they invariably do like

That’s that’s when maybe like maybe maybe I just need more KS like do I need to get all the way up to 10ks and there you know like it’s I think ping has traditionally been the straightest brand in golf anyway and now you know what we experience with with 10K when we’re out

With ping and and you know the g430 max 10K that’s another one where I’m like like it’s um it’s it can be a lot to look at and I wouldn’t say it’s the best sounding driver in the Ping lineup but it’s not terrible and just like hey if

If if if them white staks been creeping in on you a little bit like let’s let’s grab something if I need to push them out that that’ll be the approach so I think like uh at your home course at McGregor man if you could Step Up on

Number two and not worry about it yeah and be like okay that would that that whole like you you’d worry about that if you hit a nine iron off the te like that’s what I’m saying it feels like you’re you’re kind of trying to thread a

Needle but but you can’t hit iron you need to hit something with some distance to it and I would have told you yeah I mean for sure and three woods and any of the woods right again I love my my TSR 3 my strong three I that’s tough to beat but

I’ I’d be willing to take a look at something and the Seven wood like the seven wood is just a fantastic tool period regardless of what brand but if I could find one that that’s better than what I have um i’ I’d think about that too so what about putter what’s your you

Know cuz you’re you’re you’re a you’re an interesting guy in the sense that throughout your bag you tend to be a better putter than maybe some other place in your bag but you’re not necessarily like a putter guy like that’s not necessarily like yeah here it

Is and I’m I I couldn’t is it I always struggle with the pxg names but is that a blackjack I have I don’t know whatever whatever pxt spider clone that one that one has been in the bag it’s stuck I’m happy with it I putt well with it

Obviously we’ve got the the Callaway AI stuff AI W putt smarter yeah you were at that launch yeah so that may take a look but that’s one where it’s it’s sort of like it’s it’s not broke was dialed in I was fit for the cway too but fit for the

Pxg it’s not broke no need to fix it um so that that’s one I may not even you know like something something really has to blow my mind on on the putting truck yeah yeah I think you know for me it’s a similar little bit of a

Similar process in the in sense that I’ll kind of start in the middle and work work out I love you know again kind of let’s call it the t00 t150 class of irons kind of from like five iron up like from five to wedge is kind of that

That’s also I you know once I get a chance like the Muna like 243s um again kind of your quintessential players cavity back iron in there excited to uh to look that and and wouldn’t hate looking at just testing something else in that space we’re going to talk about Wilson in a

Minute their CBS look if you didn’t have a Wilson logo on it um there’s a couple three four brands people would absolutely guess it is and they’d be wrong and and they might even be disappointed when they go oh God it’s Wilson like yeah yeah you I mean you

Take the logo off and you’re like who made this mhm I want those yeah yeah exactly so you get there you know wedges little bit of a creature habit like you said for me the biggest thing again back to the wedges it’s fitting it’s getting fit for the wedges and knowing what they

Do and why and the level to which you and I have both been fit I I I can’t say I’m better fit for something in my bag than wedges like I I I don’t feel I don’t have more confidence in any part of my bag in terms of what I’m fit for

Than that and going through that process with them so yeah yeah because unless you’re one of the guy like all right it happens right you get chip Yips or a little dicey around the green but I mean it’s it’s not going to blow anybody’s

Mind to hear me say that if if a club is shorter in length it’s easier to be more consistent with so you have you have a club that you can sing can swing consistently as I can with a half wed shot um robotic so and so like when you

When you have something that lends itself to consistency anyway and then you are dialed in at a at a level that probably is is goes above and beyond anything else in your bag you start talking about you know might you don’t have to worry about the grind with a

Driver for example it’s um boy let’s hope not and so yeah when when you can when you can get properly fit by W for a wedge or three wedges four wedges whatever it happens to be yeah that the impact of that is is massive I think so

Yeah and the rest yeah the rest of the bag very quickly my tweener spot is that seven wood four hybrid driving iron place that’s one that I’ll swap out depending on where I’m playing and what’s going on but I want to experim experiment more with the seven wood for

Sure I I want to go the other way like I want to find a driving iron that I can use on we’ll have a discussion about that um and then you know the fairway wood space I’ve gotten best performance thus far in the last couple years Cobra and Taylor

Made In in different uh constellations I love the adjustability of last year’s like stealth uh stealth 2 plus OB obviously with Qi tour right the plus became the tour uh in our in our lexicon and then if you go over to the um to the

Cobra side like I said we’ll get to dark speed I there’s nothing about any of the dark speed Fairy Woods that I look at and go yeah I couldn’t play that if anything again it’s a little bit of the Wilson effect where the way that they look and feel

And perform people go oh my gosh that had a tailor made logo on it that had a Titleist logo on it may you know crazy pay ATT crazy good and then I I really like what we talked about last week in terms of driver analysis is I

Want to take the three or four get it to the ones that I hit say okay we get three or four ball speeds are within one to two miles an hour which one do I hit the straightest got got to narrow it down to that top

Seven or eight and then go from there right we do exactly and for me invariably that’s going to be kind of the the ls or the lower spin model so it’s you know it’s probably going to be like I said Triple Diamond um you know qi1 LS dark speed um you know LS

Obviously you know kind of stick within those I’ve hit you know ping LST so I have that as a as a reference point the highest spinning of the low spinning Lin the highest SP of the low spinning drivers yeah so go from there and then on the putter side very quickly um I

Love link I Love Lamp I love lab uh I want it it yeah I’m I’m really really I’m still like the only guy who hasn’t tried one I I know you are I I and I want to dabble with some of the new models they have coming out and so oo

Teaser I didn’t even but I’m not you said when it comes to Putters I’m the most H whatever yeah yeah which times so supposed to excite me doesn’t but we will do I think we should do an official like starting lineup you know once both of we we kind of start playing around

The same time in terms of Home course depending on temperature and stuff so maybe maybe that early to mid midm March time over under for me is always the Masters like that’s kind of first part of April yeah so but maybe we’ll look at something in there that’ll be fun hey

Quick announcement we have an official on course data partner for 20 24 shot scope and you just said so good why what what gets you excited about that like we are going to be sharing lots of insights collected from real golfers on course so you’ll see feature articles on the

Website inclusions in the newsletter just little little nuggets of wisdom gleaned from shot scope data that that will maybe get you to think differently or or maybe confirm some of the things you’re already doing on the course so yeah a lot of a lot of good things

Coming with that I’m so excited to have them on board yeah I love it and in talking with the team over there and and we see things the same way Scottish so there’s so much fun to talk to number one phenomenal to have phone calls with

Them I just I want to get like books on tape you know by the shot scope team I think that’d be phenomenal but the thing that I really like about what they’re doing too is it’s all about actionable data too like they have a lot of data we

Know all this and that’s awesome but they’re really invested in okay how do we actually take this and give it to consumers in a way that might actually help them or or golf smarter golf smarter and I know there are other companies out there doing that as well

I’m not saying that there aren’t but I feel like shot scope is like hellbent on making data accessible and actionable for like real everyday golfers and I think that really resonates with kind of who we are and what we do to as as well so rock on pay attention people it’s

Coming out there 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 312 releases if I count quickly here Tony between that’s roughly accurate yes between last week and this week programming note people we’re not going to give you every single detail on every single release you’ll have to go to the

Website for that we should should have a special after we get through PGA show have John Barba come in for a special edition where he steps us through what he thinks is really cool in the 700 roughly articles that he contributed I think that’d be great because as you

Guys know or or may not know uh Mr Barba one of our resident experts and passion uh you know he loves the Cleveland Zio Wilson well he’s in the Zio demographic so he in the Zio demog and he knows those and not just recently either like he’s long time Zio demographic

Guy but you know can’t be an expert in everything and he does love him so he’s but he knows that stuff so we may not go as deep into those right now uh today but let’s start at the top Tony as we said we can now finally talk about dark

Speed dark speed dark so let’s talk drivers let’s start where everybody wants us to start which is the driver so start us off what do we got we got three models except except when we’ve got four models oh cuz there’s some weirdness in there but yeah so

We’ve got we’ve got a low spinning dark speed LS we’ve got a low to mid is spinning dark speed X and then we’ve got dark Speed Max your forgiveness and or Draw biased model depending on how you want to configure the weights okay so a little bit of

Everything in the Ripple here and this is this is super weird kind of distinctively Cobra and we’ll we’ll talk about the why behind this in a bit but the8 degree LS has a different shape they’re calling it extreme Arrow shaping so a little bit different shape than than the N9 and 10

And a half degree LS models which also have I guess what what’s just like one notch down from extreme like that’s whatever that whatever that is that’s aerodynamic it is a pronounced aerodynamic package as opposed to an extreme package maybe I don’t know here’s the

Nine so this is the nine degree I may end up in the eight that’s one I really want to compare to the others but it’s uh oh man yeah so compar so what is the eight like if this is the nine what do the eight do so really like what’s

Noticeable the thing you’ll notice is in those heel and toe sections of the face that Crown is going to swoop down even more aggressively so yeah so kind of dropping yeah so that Crown is going to be almost more domed with an aggressive sweep into the heel and toes if you will

And the other thing front to back which is going to be a hard angle for you to get in the crown region there yeah good luck um the you failed um the the the 8 degree is going to be a little bit longer I’d say more of a bullet shape

Some people have said triangle I I like bullet better than triangle for no other reason than triangle like Harkens up images of 917 and things yeah it’s a hard look so yeah really designed to be fast and they’re talking about you know they’re talking about Kyle Burkshire and

The kind of speed he gains um there’s another one who they they affectionately refer to as player B if you can maybe decipher the code and figure out who we’re talking about here but those guys and again you’re talking upwards of 130 M hour swing speed those guys are seeing

Three plus mile hour gains just over the shape of the head which is that is massive I mean those are those are big big gains and so while I wouldn’t expect me or Chris you know guys that that run 105 110 depending on on where where we

Are in the day and the season and things like that you know I I don’t think we’re going to see 4ish miles an hour per se but could see one we we saw I mean we saw speed with aerojet particularly LS last year like I I could not swing any

Other club I tried as fast as I could swing Arrow Jet and so you can talk about USGA limits and CT and all this stuff I don’t care like you give me more speed I’m gonna I’m GNA generate more speed coming off it’s going to go

Farther and so if you were in The Wheelhouse where the a a dnamic shaping of the ls benefits you you’re going to see speed um even the even the x is probably more aerodynamically efficient than than most of what’s out there and that’s yeah well it’s kind of the middle

One for Cobra the x is really kind of a mid mid maybe even low mid it’s it’s definitely not what I would call low spinning at all it’s definitely on the lower end of the mid-range and then obviously the max is is built for forgiveness and so that’s I be correct

In saying that the like you said the the most extreme aerodynamic obviously said is the 8 degree only the 8 degree model there is the nine degree model would I be correct in stating that the nine degree model is more aerodynamically efficient than last year’s LS yes yeah

And I mean these are this is not rehashing right this is pushing aerodynamics and you we don’t we can’t say for sure who has the best aerodynamics in golf and it’s and we talk about this it’s probably in terms of performance stories maybe the least interesting the least sexy if you will

But I mean we talk to other people in the industry and and Cobra comes up as the guys who are maybe just a little bit ahead of the aerodynamic curve and so yeah you know we we talked about Cobra not getting credit for being Innovative pushing limits things like that but I

Think in this discussion they they are at the Forefront and the other thing Worth to mention before we jump into the Fairway Woods with the ls model and I think this is this is really important significant they’ve brought the three-eight system back and so that that allows you to put

A little bit more forgiveness into an LS or if the ls as configured at the factory if you will spins a little too low for you can drop that heavy weight in the back gain a little bit of Loft add a little spin it’s maybe not going to be that as

Piercing but but it it adds some playability to the ls that they they took out of it the last couple revisions so I I mean I’m I’m excited to see that back I’m probably an X guy but that LS in the back option knowing that hey if I

Can get this into playable for me gain a little bit of speed through the aerodynamics that’s a win-win so yeah I’m I’m excited that’s and that’s the one I’m really interested in the dri space for them is it kind of becomes an LS and a half if you put that heavy

Weight in the back we saw this last year or when TSR came out with titles I know we’re talking about Cobra but you know the the tsr4 or the TS can we call it the LSU because that’s kind of halfway between s and X yeah we have to what letter exactly’s

What working too hard on this figure it out but point being the the TSR 4 with the heavy weight in the back was kind of a tour configuration they went with that was kind of a TSR 3 and a half it was enough of bump and forgiveness and right

We’re going to see that on the on the Fairway Woods as well they said the three oh he three configuration so you can kind of see you got two you got heel toe and then rear so same type of of options What You Won’t See with with Cobra though is any

Type of sliding type weights we see that you know really I said more so with with Taylor Made and some of those but between the three different weight ports flip weights three weight ports and you do have the adjustable hosle um and so you can go up and down right with with

Both your Loft and your lie angle and again early leader in the clubhouse were best looking Fairway Wood I know that’s but it’s clean it’s just it’s clean it looks good and they’ve done like they’ve done yeah the shaping of Cobra Fairway Woods has always been really good again

For my eye I understand this is subjective but you get somewhere for example um some of the Nike stuff and you know pxg like Gen 5 stuff where it’s just like really really rounded like it’s almost like a baseball that somebody just kind of shaved a little

Off the front kind of thing and so it doesn’t suit my eye necessarily but yeah this the cobra stuff they shape it well performs well I mentioned this in the article like it kind of sucks for Cobra because we know the average guy is going to try three on average right it’s gonna

Take three drivers into a hitting Bay we know what the market share looks like it’s it’s almost always going to be some combination of tailor made Callaway titlist and P so just get into the discussion for cobra that’s a tricky proposition and I’m like I’m telling

People just just try one more just say hey let’s let’s go try a cobra just because those idiots on no puts given told me to I’m gonna I’m gonna I’m gonna see how wrong they are and you know maybe walk away pleasantly surprised and you know thank me later I did order a

Seven wood Tony so here’s a seven wood in the X so again similar naming conventions again you guys can go to the Articles check them out for all the nitty GR details and stuff but um I went with the X in the seven wood for two

Reasons number one it reminded me of the blue colorway on the bottom which is kind of fun right something that that Cobra did where call it fun it is fun it is fun where it’s informative it’s informative particularly if you whether you or whether you know about it or not

You’ve probably been influenced by it in the shaft space in the industry the low launch low spin version of a shaft is typically black white or like a silver like something like that right if it’s mid- launch mid spin something something in the Oakland or excuse me Las Vegas

Raider family like it’s going to be yes low launch low spin Raiders mid launch mids spin Detroit Lions T not the Cowboys anymore not the Cowboys on America’s team no that one would be a a driver you know club that really really performs when it doesn’t matter and then

It’s as soon as the money shots on the line it vomits all over itself that’s what that shaft would be anyway blue mid launch mids spin that’s the X head and then for them the max is the red you see a little red numbers and stuff higher launch higher spin which right red

Shafts within a given family tend to often be red denoting higher launch higher spin so there you go but yes I think that that’s the challenge I pointed this out in the article too as well it’s like the challenge for Cobra is we’ll talk maybe more a little market

Dynamics in the after show briefly but getting whale sounds coming out of my house here I don’t know what’s going on whale sounds wife and kid belugas like belugas anyway we’ll talk more about that in the after some of the market know what it is I know what it is

Somebody’s using the tonal it’s like the oh anyway good somebody’s somebody’s getting healthy good all right love it love it all right shout out to tonal free plug love the tonal ton on yeah Black Ops p pxg p the pxg black what’s the p stand for anyway I don’t know I

Don’t know sh Black Ops it’s a covert you don’t tell people about Black Operations they’re behind the scenes they’re Undeclared you don’t shout and scream doesn’t make sense anyway about Black Ops but anyway what do we need to know about black opportunities or Black Operations

No irons so far this year so okay no IR this is specific this is all metalwood stuff yeah so we would this would be about the time when we would expect to see plus or minus a month right gen seven but instead we have black Ops changing the naming convention at least

With the metal woods I would assume the irons are will stay on the Gen convention when the time comes we’ll see so interesting stuff two models we have a standard Black Ops and a Black Ops tour we’re not doing 0311 XF or Ps or T’s or any of the other numbers

Or letters we us yep yeah yep so the the talking point of the standard black Ops is 10K driver number three for the year across that 10,000 combined total Moi threshold we know what that means big footprint uh plenty of forgiveness obviously 10K worth but I will say it’s

It’s to me intriguing for pxg because I wouldn’t say all of them but maybe the last iteration or two of the XF they’ve done a reasonably good job of keeping spin down you know not not saying it’s low spin but it wasn’t super high spin either mid spin solidly at worst right

Uh and and doing that in a in a 10,000k package if that holds up is is certainly intriguing and then the tour model you know what you get there right that that kind of that flatter more penetrating trajectory lower Moi and that’s that’s a driver where I thought pxg who I mean we

Remember how spinny kind of the first generation or two was was but started getting into that tour space and they they showed some promise with a couple of prototypes like you know they they might be inching toward something and then just kind of quietly went away and

Started doing like Mass Market X became a mass Market product and then you not even going to call it the X anymore kind of thing and now now we’re back in the tour space and that’s it’s interesting be curious to see what these can do three-eight systems again as as pxg is

Traditionally done so giving you option to to configure any way you need to more forgiveness more speed up front slice bias or anti slice bias if you need it so yeah intriguing we’ll see we’ll see um 599 retail price I’m not sure if if I’m being honest if I would

Buy a new pxg driver right now with the one is it the other one like 50 bucks more 650 yeah so and and again knowing their their kind of history of discounting I mean I just feel like if you wait by by Fourth of July these are probably going to be you’ll probably

Catch a sale so we’ll see we’ll see yeah I yeah we’ll talk more about neither you or know I have been hit or 50 so don’t know nothing nothing to share there but we’ll have you know potentially more more later on Wilson we mentioned I like

I said just take a it’s hard to make a badl looking muscle back I get that it’s clean it’s simple um but I’ll say this for the CB as well um the the cavity of it and you kind of see what they’re doing with the lines um on it it’s very

Japanese dare I say there it’s very reminiscent of some other designs and again every B everybody borrows inspiration from everybody else so I’m not at all saying oh oh my gosh these look like a blank that’s you know no what I’m talking about is paying attention it’s a cavity with an angle in

It you know like that’s not proprietary come on right right right but but it would not take you long to look through a number of I would say pretty pleasing aesthetically at least designs in the in that kind of forg cavity back space from mauno mayura

7 um you know if you look and I catch just a just a hint obviously it’s a little bit of a different category but some of lines right maybe a hint like where the Milling is I guess like just a hint of like even tiess concept but

Again you know none of these things are proprietary like no if you start getting into things like you can’t have angles you can’t Mill you can’t you can’t you can’t like come on guys there’s only there’s only so many ways to do it when

Is the last time that you I even sto to notice a Wilson iron you know and and and they’ve made good and I think my my biggest hope for for this line is that it’s kind of a harbinger of of things to come for Wilson where I think yes there are some

Things that they’ve done incredibly well in the past but that’s exactly where they are do you know they won like a 100 Majors 200 years ago I mean that’s kind of the story G pchas and what yeah yeah so so we’ll see we’ll see kind of but we

Are catching wind like some Vibes of like Hey we’re going to let’s talk about the the present maybe L and how yeah and what can we do and like I said if these this iron design is anything that we should read into of where they may be headed in

This particular space then you know I’m signing up to that email list like I’m subscribing I’m going to watch I want to see where they head to this is intriguing big thumbs up on this one I love this super intriguing uh uh there just dropped even roll neoc classic

Putters Roman Empire kind of stuff that are very own Dave wolf sorry which he he worked in a lot of uh things very entertaining articles you have yeah that that was John Bara School of obscure references well Tik Tock references and things he does he does a great job with

It but he brought it on this one for sure yeah but basically the purpose here right is let’s get a couple models you know historically with even roll it’s the number two and number five that have sold exceptionally well across the board across the world um South Korea I know

For sure love the black the murdered out type of look those sell exceptionally well so they said Hey what if we did this what if we took a couple of the most popular hles we took away some of the modular components to it made them in a couple colors and now that’s going

To be kind of our classic line but we’re not going to compromise on the key technology which is face insert and the grooves now well the grooves now with a face insert I guess is the right way to say that right so even roll grooves have long been the

Story the idea of of correcting being able to make a slight correction for those kind of open face or off the toe hits to kind of just bring your starting line a little closer to where you want it to be more consistent result because of it so they haven’t changed that new

Insert kind of intriguing right I think is this the first time we’ve seen an insert from yeah first time we’ve really seen uh a full-on insert from them and and I was out in California a couple weeks or this was part of our our 18 weeks in a row of

Travel in the in the fall and the winter and you know I was asking Garen uh Garen R owner founder uh lead designer CEO whatever of of even kind of about these a little bit and he said you know that’s something that they’ve worked really hard on is to try and make sure

That it’s getting a similar sound and feel they’ve tried to dial that in over some some generations I’d say two generations ago they were too soft and so people felt at times like they lacked distance control or kind of lacked feedback and so you saw them try to make it a little bit

More of a firmer insert but obviously or sorry firmer sense at at impact but I think that’s always the challenge with any type of an insert is not just the feel but think about different head shapes and Designs like if if you have a 100 you know if it’s a mil Putter and

It’s 350 grams and it’s an answer style putter all of those grams all that weight are within you know a very narrow band right but what what about some of the larger designs like a five and some of these other ones where you really have to think about aluminum and in the

Acoustics and so I don’t know we’ll see I think we’ll ultimately see kind of how they do in putting stuff but I I don’t think it’s the worst if they they don’t feel identical that’s that’s kind of and I mean I guess right if you’re going to

Put it in everything maybe it needs to but if you talk about the Odyssey line for example like one of the I don’t want to say the beauty but one of the cool things about odsy over the years is and you know they haven’t been like every

Release you get everything but they kind of vary up the inserts so like hey if you like the white hot feel we can give you that if you like a different feel if you like the more of a true stainless well hey we’ve got a mil fit you know so

It’s it’s having that little bit of everything so even even if you try it and you go well this doesn’t feel like an even roll or what I’m used to yeah I I don’t think that’s the worst thing I don’t know I haven’t hit these haven’t

Rolled them I don’t know what they feel like but one of these things like Variety in putter feeli Is Not a Bad Thing period not a bad thing no not not at all like I said we’re going to I mean you guys can go to the website and

Check out some of these releases we’re going to talk a couple ball things here specifically but Cleveland Halo XL irons Cleveland zipcore XL irons Cleveland cbx4 ZIP group W it’s weird and not weird to me right so Cleveland has become the game improvement line of the shrix on Cleveland Zio Dunlop Etc

Sumitomo rubber Industries uh golf division um it’s weird right the wedges I guess you’ve got the Cleveland name has some history to it so other than wedges everything in the Cleveland line has has slanted towards game improvement and I I look at these Halo XL and I kind of

Smile a little bit why because if you and I if you and I hit a club like a a Halo XL say like Cobra t- rail another one kind of the big hollow body mini hybrid through a full set design of irons they go straight up in

The air absolute moonshots and you know as a guy who doesn’t need that I still enjoy seeing it it’s fun but I think man if if you’re a guy who doesn’t hit it high if you struggle to hit it high you want to you used to hit it high you lost

Speed you can’t hit it high anymore and you would love to actually hit golf clubs that go in the air instead of these kind of flat things that roll out forever you want to get back to hitting shots that look like how most of us think golf shots are supposed to look

Man these type of designs are so good for that and it’s it’s so much fun and I know like like I said if if I hit Moon shots and you hit Moon Moon shots I know these are going to be really good for a guy who’s who’s struggling who would

Love to hit a moonshot maybe he’s not gonna hit the moon but’s he’s gonna hit it higher than than he has in a long time GNA get out of the atmosphere for sure so again not for me but man I I can appreciate these these type of designs on a really significant level

Also saw stong came out so qar tour and uh divide golf balls qar tour has not tested well historically so I’m not super excited about not my favorite shrick on ball it’s not my favorite shcks on Ball but we’ll see again new year new ball who knows we’ll test it

And find out the Divide concept not Shock people kind of divided on it yeah I’m sure I know people who do but I’m not sure that shon’s intent is for you to actually go out and play 18 holes with the with this ball like it’s

I don’t want to call a training to use well I think you know when you talk about kind of the advantages and where it can help it’s it’s kind of looking at it around the green whether you’re seeing how your putts roll with the with

The color contrast or or how a ball is spinning on a short wed shot that’s the kind of stuff where it’s it’s advantageous um I’m not I’m not sold on on the course and we haven’t talked about this it hasn’t been discussed and we haven’t done any detailed testing on

This to tell you what the real world implications are but if you look at the cover of a Divide Golf Ball versus the standard golf ball whether that’s qar whether that’s Zar whatever it happens to be to put those covers together it’s fundamentally different that’s a different seam pattern and so you know

Shon typically has pretty tight seams generally let that lends itself to more stable or more consistent aerodynamics so I you know again just speculating based on what we know here but it’s the ball is coming together differently with the Divide pattern it’s not you know these are these aren’t sort of painted

After the fact right um if you look it is a it is a different seam pattern so like probably has implications but again like it’s if you think it’s cool play it like I said I think it’s realistically probably more of a a putting around the green type of

Educational practice tool but hey you know if you enjoy it on the course like if you could show me that it performs really well with with the cover implication I would love it like I think it looks cool so I’m a guy that if it wasn’t matte for example if you give me

Like the give me like mix it up give me something fun like a red and yellow right something like that I would play it play it all day orange in the air if it were spinning fast enough I guess right like that’s how did I hit it hard

Enough to turn it orange yeah yeah I it always reminds me every time I see that ball it reminds me being a little kid like you know playing Bas oneall you could go get you know the Chicago Bulls ball and it was you know the panels were

Different it was black and red black and red like you know if you hit a perfect swoosh or whatever like you could see it spin that was kind of cool I the Lakers ball was purple and yellow always thought that was cool so I don’t know anyway moving on AVX oo

Ball lab is that right Tony did you do a ball lab on these do no that’s not going to be ball lab no not yet takes us time we don’t just go out and buy three dozen as soon as they launch you got to give it time there’s a process there’s a

Process got to so what can you tell me about it can you tell me anything about it yeah well we got a new AVX how about that okay so what is the AVX what is this thing GNA do what’s this is uh what are the plans here for Titus cuz it’s

Not a we know it’s not a prov1 prov1 x year but AVX is kind of this you know I don’t want to call it odd because it’s not odd but it’s the only ball that’s kind of in the prov1 family of golf balls or it’s treated as though is part of the family

But it has like a different name so it’s like the the one kid in the family that gets a different name and it and compared to kind of its competitive set which I guess is on paper anyway right lower compression urethane so it’s typically when we talk

About that it’s tour response chrom soft qar tour RX rxs Etc yep it it tends to fly quite a bit lower than those so kind of a yeah and and Titleist isn’t telling you any differently like this is a this is a soft golf ball with a penetrating

Trajectory which you know some some people love anyway and then if you are a higher swing speed guy who would normally kind of overc compress and balloon your typical soft golf ball AVX maybe is a better option in that respect um but you know that’s kind of where it

Fits right lower build as lowlight low spin within that the tidalist urethane offering lineup yep uh but in terms of what’s new right it’s I’ve been saying this a lot right cover to core core to cover whichever way you want to start um so they they’ve made some changes to to

Make it spin even Less in the long game so lower spin off driver off long irons that’s going to get you more distance see to Green right and the other big one here mean I should mention I think I’m I think I’m like bound to mention the high Flex

Casing layer that’s come like we talk about that quite a bit I mean that started with years ago with left Dash and it’s kind of a design that’s that’s worked its way into I think everything in the Titus urethane lineup now and we’re starting to hear like other companies other

Manufacturers talk about not high Flex casing layer because that’s tiing yeah but that kind of that you want to call it a mantle mid layer whatever you want to call it right kind of doing things at that layer to to tune performance so that’s kind of worked its way into AVX

And then softer feel by way of a thicker cover so kind of interesting they actually bumped compression up overall ball compression up just a little little bit but the cover is softer so around the green off the putter where you probably tend to notice feel a little

Bit more it should feel a little bit softer so that was my first is you know we had some of the the prototypes or the the kind of test walls and I hit it did they come in white boxes yes they did yes they did I hit it you know right

Away just against a couple other balls in the title sign and and against the previous uh version of AVX and just like hitting little wet shots into you know little simulator in my basement and that was my first thought was like oh on partial shots this felt slightly softer

Like that was the first thing that was noticeable to me so I think if if that was let’s say you are an AVX player and you felt that that was an area that was maybe lacking in the in the previous version um I wouldn’t be at all

Surprised if this time around you go yeah that is is softer in that spe but I think this is going to be a a very interesting ball War category I think that’s where I’m really interested to see where this all goes where you know you kind of term it the you know not

Necessarily Flagship urethane space where we’re seeing you know the top but this is one level down right yeah this is yeah like again back in the day when college football you had division one and then you had one doublea and you had like alorn State this is that like division one daa

Just that slight step I because there’s a lot of people that want to be in there these these balls also tend to be slightly you know one step less expensive than those top Flagship once and this will be I mean that’s the other thing this is this to

Me is almost odd because you’ve got yep prov1 prov1x left Dash 54.99 54.99 54.99 AVX what you go into the market today and buy $54.99 new AVX $49.99 nope so we’re dropping prices five bucks to me it’s weird but I think you know in talking to

Titleist I’m like why are you doing this and it it really is it’s almost I would say to an extent bowing to Market perception where and you can almost blame Titleist to an except for this where maybe maybe the consumer the golfing Market whatever you want to call

It doesn’t see AVX as being on the same level as prov1 and I’m not in the discussions at at Titus obviously but I’ve always felt like this ball probably could have been named prov1 s s for soft obviously but went in a different direction but it it’s made

Like a prov1 right three layer ball cast cover manufactured at ball plant 3 alongside prov1 prov1x left Dash to the same standard so in in every reasonable sense it is just like a prov1 it’s just built to a different performance spec and that’s again I’m not saying with

Performance I very rarely talk about good or bad it’s really just different in a golf ball right and this this has a quantifiably different performance spec than anything else and that’s by Design right you could start with this and go hey what if we what if we put a little

More spin in it made it spin more around the green made it fly a little higher well again you just made a pro1 what’s what’s the point so you know this needs to kind of exist in its own little own little spot in the lineup and be

Different but in terms of the things that matter from a quality standpoint and to an extent performance again talking about that cast youran cover three-piece construction it’s it’s every bit a pro one in that respect and for whatever reason Titus has decided that you can

Buy it for less money so hey have had it good for good for golfers who love AVX I guess I get it I get it last one and then we’re going to finish up with uh maybe a this is going to be a much smaller after show if you will kind of

Just five six seven minutes on some Market Dynamic questions that I want to ask you Tony but uh that being said kig are dear friends yeah kig kig Kirkland Signature Performance Plus V3 I need to know do I need to know ball lab coming Friday teaser um teaser I think me teaser I

Think it’s what you should expect for the money what you should expect for the money could you know and we’ll we when we when you read it we’re we’re trying to present both sides of it um sure there’s some there there are different ways to be a bad golf ball and some ways

Are better than others I I guess I guess I would phrase it right have you like you play golf you know what it’s like there are there are good double Bogies and bad double Bogies yeah yeah yeah good double bogey Yep this a good noted and with that if you want to

Stick around uh like I said after so we’re going to talk a little bit more on the market dynamics uh that are present with some of these things I want to pick Tony’s brain on a couple of things if you don’t want to know about that we’ll

See you next time where where are we next week PGA show in Orlando and that’s how I always get Tony to leave we’ll be right back I almost I caught a little bit of my zebra rug and almost took a tumble all right all right five to seven

Good minutes here Tony getting some questions around and you know and we’re talking to companies you have all these releases I mean we got 30k worth of drivers between three driver three brands alone so we have 30,000 points or forgiveness but every year right we get this and it’s

It’s a little bit of a re you know I guess the question is how much of it is kind of reshuffling you know uh deck chairs on the Titanic where we’re going to end up where we currently are because markets by and large don’t shift majorly over a single year however there’s

Nothing saying they have to stay the same so what in your mind let’s start with metalwoods so what would constitute a big change in the marketplace you know when we look at again we’ve talked how kind of the big four four and a half depending on if you want to include

Cobra on the category whatever 85 to 90% of the market right so and I think even deeper perspective when you look at the kind of straight ranking right who’s the number one driver in golf based on you know know whatever metric somebody wants to pull it’s typically the big two right

It’s it’s Callaway and it’s tailor made fighting for that especially we talk about retail sales right dollars retail dollars it’s typically Callaway and tailor made Titleist rolling into year two so if you want to look at uh I guess kind of the tail end of that equation

First the the big question is does cobra have enough with dark speed where they can leap frog Titleist into probably the four spot this year I think you know realistically that’s that’s Cobra’s Target and it used to be Cobra used to outsell Titleist in the second year of a

Titleist run I think that has probably changed with T-Series you know TSI TSR especially so it’s it’s become you know I think that that’s hurt Cobra a little bit but if they can if they can leap frog Cobra I think that’s one thing to look at and then on the top end is

You you’ve got you got three really good stories right AI smoke which again you and I love qi1 I mean Taylor M’s gonna make a good driver period like that’s oh it’s good that I’m shocked no that’s weird so it it really becomes like hey Ken ping off

The strength of Max 10K which we think we don’t have loads and loads of data a lot of this is anecdotal and kind of early Most Wanted testing that seems to be the one of of the 10ks you know really for us two at this point because we we weren’t

Able to get the pxg But if if ping can kind of Lea frog and move into that one spot it’s not unheard of right the no original not heard of I think G30 they did it back in the day so if if ping gets hot that could be disruptive so

That that’s kind of what I’m what I’m eyeballing but I think I mean everybody’s so strong right now it’s it’s tough to see see much of a major shift I’d see strong to to very strong uh like my my stock portfolio um but yeah I think the dynamic that you

Point out there that that I wanted to talk about a little bit is because stuff doesn’t change every year but companies can’t release necessarily product every year some are 18 months some are 24 months some again you feel more in that 12 month Cadence but in that top four or five spot like

You said Callaway’s new new story tailor M’s new new story ping is effectively seconde same story with a twist with the 10K so that’s a little bit different titlist with with TRS this is the second uh TR TSR we TSR TRS yeah whatever t with teaser you know teaser with their

Current generation of metalwoods but you know they will replace those at some point but that’s not new so like you said does cobra have enough momentum to kind of overtake that but we’re seeing that on the golf ball side as well right this is the back half for Titleist in

Terms of prov1 provx you know prov1x their Flagship but it is a new year for all of the competitors in that direct space with again I mean this is where I think the ball stuff gets interesting because you know everybody else in that space in the top three or four that is

Not titlist is releasing a new flagship tour at urethane ball this year so are we going to see any meaningful changes in in that like does Callaway have enough to steal a couple more points from from Titleist it’s the ball space is fascinating because I think I think the numbers will

Shift it’s it’s just a question of of how they shift and so if you look at a good bit of the market and I would say pre- chrom soft okay Titus was was kind of on on its own in an island to on an island to an extent and sort of like

They were they were going to do what they did and they were going to get their massive chunk and nothing was going to interfere with that pre chrom soft was sort of like Callaway tailor made brid Stone and to a lesser extent shrix on guys would get new balls and

Then those four kind of Steal points from each other there might have been a nibble here or there but nobody nobody’s able to really take a sizable chunk out of out of tius at all and then chrom soft chrom soft hit and I don’t want to

Say chrom soft took a massive chunk out of Titus because there’s still I mean 50 plus give or take of the market but what happened there Callaway took a little little bit more out of Titus and and quite a bit out of everybody else and so that that’s kind of they got to

That clear two position by by stealing a lot from the little guys and so the the question always is okay like these guys are probably gonna take a little bit from each other as they go curiosity right like I may be a tp5 guy but sure I’m really curious about the the Chrome

Tour for example or hey new Bridgestone ball what are those markings we’ve seen on Twitter on knows I’m I got to try that and so it’s you know who who am I taking share from and is it am I going to keep it or am I going to be like yeah

Okay I tried it and now I’m going to go back to whatever I was playing a prov1 for example where I’ve been playing it for however many years a lot of history with it every great shot I’ve ever hit as I was prov1 at the beginning and end

Of it that kind of thing so that that’s the dynamic is how much where does it come from where does it come from because I think Callaway has its most compelling golf ball since chrom soft and and frankly chrom soft was only compelling as a story not really as a as a performance

Product performance side right yeah and I think the distinction here is again like we know I’ve talked about this quite a bit chrom soft what is now Chrome Torx what was chromes soft X really really underappreciated by the market really good golf ball sub 2% market share think about that like this

Is Callaway’s top performing Tour ball up until this point of time less than 2% market share that that’s not challenging anything Titus is doing it’s it’s just not and yeah chrom soft again higher share but not not a true tour level performer and so it’s that that Chrome tour now is

Where that is set up to go head-to-head with prov1 in a year when when tius doesn’t have an ability to play defense and by defense I mean a no a new Prov one that’s gonna raise curiosity at the same level right this is you’re a year

In you kind of know what it is there’ll be more curiosity around Chrome tour and I think there’ll be I’m not telling you like hey watch the first two months of the season callway is gonna have the bestselling ball that’s not gonna happen

Not by a long shot but there’s G to be a lot of curiosity around Chrome tour what out of the gate the marketing is going to be heavy we’re already seeing some of that and it’s for me the the the one battle to look at is what is the conversion rate

The keep rate right how many guys try Chrome tour against prov1 and say I like this better I’m gonna buy I’m gonna buy another five dozen yeah because it’s it and like you said just couple quick thoughts on the market Dynamic P the to me the reason the ball stuff is so

Interesting is one it’s it’s evolving and changing because it’s a consumable right like people aren’t buying four or five 12 drivers a year so you just have you know you have millions of dozens of golf balls are being purchased every year so there’s a lot of volume going on

There and then it’s it’s as you mentioned and kind of that pecking order if I’m in two spot well it’s very obvious probably where I’m going to try to who’s hide right I’m GNA try to take a bite out of right but if you’re in I’m Number two I’m gonna really go hard

After number three yeah but if I’m in three four if I’m may you know Taylor M trick on bridgstone Etc if I’m trying to gain any meaningful share like you know kind of see people on a ladder like like you said is is Callaway you know with one hand are they kind of

Slapping the people behind them but really it’s Full Speed Ahead I mean that that’s kind of the sense so how does you know do we see that Arrangement you know changing at all and then like you said what is the story how does that maybe develop because next year again if

Past is prologue in history does let’s just say we don’t know anything but let’s just say next year would be slated to be a new year for prov1 prov1x or whatever but the back half of the 24 models that we’re seeing now I think what Titus tells us about

That ball if it does come out in a year we’ll have an awful lot to do will tell us about these dynamics that we’re kind of pontificating on now to see okay here’s kind of what they think about it because they are the clear market leader they are the number one regardless of

Metric they are the Bonafide leader in that category yeah I think it’s worth pointing out right Callaway’s strongest Revenue generate at least you know in terms of maybe not Revenue but revenue is pretty close with chrom soft but volume is super soft by plenty so there I mean cway is really

Strong at the lower end of the market for sure Ken as I mentioned right can Chrome tour and a and a new Chrome Tor X can that can that gain interest from serious golfers from I want to say tour level guys but guys who play a a true

Tour level ball are they going to be interested in in the new Callaway balls and the other Ripple here is right it’s a new year for Taylor Made 2o and so you’re gonna have tp5 tp5x both of which at retail are significantly stronger than chromes soft X has been

Historically again in the market retail so you know what what’s going to be the relationship there so I mean honestly before Chrome tour as a as a new offering in the model before it can even look at a prov1 seriously it’s got to it’s got to hop over those tailor made

Balls Absolut again within that within that demographic so it’ll be interesting to see how that plays out but I think from what I’ve seen so far the the campaign the marketing on Chrome tour is has been good so far so if they can stack a couple tour wins with it

Something like that gain some momentum especially ahead of of retail would be nice but um I I expect that I I expect a lot of guys are going to buy a dozen to check it out sure intrig I get it yeah so they’re going to sell a lot of dozens

Early and we we’ve talked about this and it’s it’s true for for any Challenger golf ball it’s it’s easy to sell the first dozen because again the Barry yeah I’m curious I’ll spend $50 it’s it’s whether I spend 55 again and again again or if I decide that you know

I’m I’m happier spending my money with Titus as I have four as long as I can remember right so Intrigue gets you in the door performance gets you back so we’ll see how that goes we’ll stay on top of this one we’ll stay tuned next week we are in

Orlando so catch all of our social stuff there’s going to be tons man it’s Orlando it’s the PGA show there’s going to be all sorts of things so there are questions things that you’d like to know please let us know golf spy T golf spy C for no puts given we Out